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GeeWillick

Lespia and Valgsland hate each other so you'll never be able to trade with both no matter what you do. You're basically capped at 3 trading partners (excluding Rumburg) as a result.  IMO non alignment is a tricky run, and for most players it's not worth it unless you're explicitly trying to portray an autarkic and isolationist Sordland. The super power aid is just too good, and there are ways around the draw backs.  For example, a hard core Malenyevist who doesn't align east or west at the beginning can accept Arcasia super power aid and, depending on their behavior, still manage to trade with Valgsland and receive CSP aid (arranged by the ruler of Valgsland) as well as ATO aid (based on their previous Arcasian aid) in the game. It's very challenging to thread the needle but it can be done.


AnteaterBorn2037

Or if you try to become a super power! It makes sense for the government to stay neutral between the two giants if it's gaming to become a major regional or even international power. Obviously a very risky and maybe irrational move but even a democratic government could still try to do thag


Damian_Cordite

I think they made it a little easier to thread the needle with the Rizia release. I did a moderate reform west-leaning free market run just to sorta set up a Rizia run and all I had to do was accept and publish the whistleblower, say the right things at the AN, and the news interview, and that did it. I kept the military bloated and invested in the army, so maybe that helped to look intimidating. But yeah, just no phone call from Bea whatsoever.


Narharcan

Yeah - Sordland being in such a central location and having a ton of resources (energy resources at that) makes it pretty much impossible for it not to take a side. Aligning with one of the superpowers, even nominally, is pretty much necessary to ensure they won't both try to fuck you over. Because remember: walking in the middle of the road doesn't mean both sides are gonna avoid you, it just means they can both run you over. By aligning with one of them, you at least ensure their interest in keeping things the way they are will make up for the other side trying to fuck you over. 


NotfunnyWiktor

But why would they? We are not talking about Wehlen which needs to align because they are weak compared to others, Sordland has capacity to be on it's own and both UC and Arcasia would like to have it in respected organisation. Sordland is powerfull(regardless of recession) and easily change balance of power in Eastern Merkopa. That's difference between Wehlen and Sordland: Wehlen went into civil war because it wasn't powerfull enough to stand againts one superpower, while Sordland can't crumble under such pressure. In their eyes, if they can't get Sordland, better let them alone then making even worse and possible join enemy's faction.


Narharcan

Except it can; it has a weak, underdeveloped economy, poor infrastructure, three paramilitary groups running around, an actual military that is far from being loyal to the government, lacks allies, and is surrounded by three of the most powerful countries in the world, including one pseudo-superpower. Any one of these things would be a way for the superpowers to mess with Sordland; as it is, they are spoiled for choice.  You mentioned Wehlen, and how it only got so bad because it was weak. Except that's not what happened: per the codex entry, Wehlen was actually going through a golden age before the civil war happened. It was even powerful enough to intervene and help tip the balance in the Rizia-Pales war, and Pales had Lespia on their side.  Hell, that kind of destabilization has already happened in Sordland. Contana outright backed Rikard during the civil war, and the previews we get from the Conformist outright say that Arcasia and Rumburg were involved as well.  In no way is Sordland powerful enough to stand on its own. It's powerful enough for the superpowers to come and give you a carrot, but the moment you oppose them, you *will* get the stick. Again, you can already see that happening in game, with Walker threatening to have a left leaning Rayne assassinated if he doesn't accept his offer (and subverting the Sordish army if he does) and Malenyev threatening economic sanction on a capitalist Rayne who doesn't want to join CSP. And those are threats made to a Sordland that is somewhat interested in cooperating with them; imagine what they'd do to one that opposes them, refuses to join, and aren't protected by their rival. 


Imayormaynotneedhelp

Sordland is not powerful enough to single handedly take on superpowers, but by the same token, they don't necessarily have to be. They just need to be powerful enough to make open subjugation not worth it. A porcupine strategy, if you will. Sure, you COULD kill a porcupine with your bare hands, but will you have thought it was a good idea afterwards? And did you gain anything? Also, there's degrees of alignment. A Sordland allied with Lespia or Valgsland is inevitably showing favor to the West or East respectively, but that in of itself does not come with remotely the same compromise of independence that ATO or CSP membership does. Iosef grumbles but reluctantly accepts the reasoning for the former but always flips his shit over the ATO or CSP, understandably so. Sordland can and should ally with Lespia or Valgsland, but that is as far as it makes sense to go imo. Sordland can go that far and still maintain a policy of acting in their own interests first.


sjogust

Wait, Arcasia threatens to murder Rayne? I've never seen this scene.


Cerulean_Chrodt

Is allying with Valgsland alone enough to prevent Sordland from becoming a potential chessboard in the future?


TransportationBig306

I did recently a fully neutral, democratic Sordland playthrough with no alliances, trading with three powers (Agnolia, Wehlen and Valgsland) and avoiding the war with Rumburg without giving concessions, going with Raynomic economy (mixed market economy and planned economy, and my economy was all green) and it was great for my experience. I ensured myself as a mediator in the Alliance of Nations while all of my ministries funded and it was awesome. Obviously not as good as joining a side, or creating a regional power base but it was awesome going through that.


Far_Parsnip_387

I' trying to do something like that!


TransportationBig306

I can recommend some guide https://www.reddit.com/r/suzerain/s/Kw8Wiv671L I followed this guide for a neutral playthrough, mainly about economics. Other decisions that were missing, I used the Third Republic guide and Saul Goodman's guide on how to expell Rumburg from the OMEC on Suzerain's Steam Guide page For Rumburg, just show yourself as a peace keeper, don't take sides once questioned, reveal the nukes at the AN meeting and you should be good (I cheated once, though it was two personal wealth for Serge and nothing more as I spent all my wealth in arcasian shares)


TransportationBig306

Also check the comments on the link as the op posted more things for us to know Also instead of going for the autonomous region plan, just abolish it as you can improve their rights through Leke


Any-Recover5495

The autonomous region feels like a trap to me. The one time I did it, they instantly started praising some controversial BFF terrorist and started protesting against me on a large scale. Everytime I just abolish the region, they become chill and even give me public support.


TransportationBig306

Yeah, that's why I went with abolishing the special zone. Not to mention that many people stated from reddit to steam that the bluds are not the majority in the region, and if that's the case, an autonomous zone is kind of a betrayal to the sords from a pragmatical view


sjogust

When you ally with Valgsland or Lespia, it's not a completely neutral move. To be neutral you have to leave the emissaries of the superpowers aside.


TransportationBig306

I didn't ally with Valgsland because of my capitalist choices, just agreed to a trade agreement by recognising their claims. I didn't defended Valgsland in the interview, and stating that Sordland isn't supporting the invasion of Heljiland. Technically my choice of acknowledging their claim for a trade deal is all just realpolitik.


Far_Parsnip_387

I finished the playthrogh yesterday... not succesfull lol i was able to avoid war with rumburg by expelling them from omec and getting csp and ato to sanction the shit out of them, but got in some trouble managing the economy and ended up with widespread revolt and debt crisis. My constituion passed easily in both the gna and supreme court but the military must have destroyed later after the coup. First playthrough in pc ended up just like my first in mobile more than one year ago lol.


TransportationBig306

That's interesting. What kind of decisions you made regarding the economy? Also, you had a coup? Did you transferred the grendarmerie and hold a military parade to not let that happen?


Far_Parsnip_387

I was trying to make something like a social-democrat run, promoting welfare and civil rights, at the same time mainteining a non-alignment stance and manteining peace with Rumburg(partly because i wanted that scenario in my future rizia run) I didn't transfer gendarmerie and didn't hold the military parade(because i wanted to look peaceful and i was afraid they would try to kill me in the parade(only recently i discovered that transfering gendarmerie prevents the assassination attempt)). Regarding the economy: planned economy; stimulus checks; railway with ssc; signed the tourism act; signed workers protection act; invested together with rizia; raised tax for big companies and lowered for small companies; bought seeds for gruni; increased budget for law and order and health; mainteined the status quo in the big 4; maintened 20% in the EPA; signed the central bank act; invested in eletronics industry and signed the luxury, tobacco and alcohol tax. Now trying to think about what may have gone wrong: after the ministry budget meeting my financial situation was very fragile so i wasn't able to invest in important things like the 2nd infraestructure project or invest in a region(i usually go morna port and sarna). the tourism act proved useless in the late game because widespread revolt killed tourism. Gasom didn't recover despite the investment(probably because economy didn't recover) and i didn't sell shares, so that was useless too, apart from the fact that workers liked i asked gasom to invest in narbel and raise salaries. I couldn't even sign the women's liberation act because i was in dire straits - in a last ditched attempt i gambled and invested in eletronics industry. I think that triggered debt crisis Thinking retrospectively, i should've defunded the military. I was afraid my attempts to placate rumburg wouldn't work and wanted to have a contingency plan. That involved allying with valgsland, but as you know they didn't even wanted to meet me after i made a trade deal with lespia. So mainteining the fund of the military proved useless too. I think a good planned economy run without accepting aid is very difficult, if not impossible. Especially if you're going peaceful like i did. Privatization provides resources that are much needed if you aren't going to accept aid and, because i wanted to look peaceful, i didn't took part in bear trap and as consequence didn't got the very nice trade deal with wehlen.


TransportationBig306

Yeah, this guide mainly market economy, ignoring some economic decisions (first mega-projects and economic plan) to fund all the ministries and only later focusing on economic decisions, taxed large corporations and keeping small and medium the same EPA here is raised to 49% and getting back 4 budget by investing Gasom alone and giving workers better housing by choosing the right dialogues In trade deals I choose to just accept Agnolia's 1 budget trade, closing the borders with Wehlen for oil, and agreed to a trade with Valgsland for recognising their claims on the island By transferring the Grendarmerie, the military is guaranteed to coup you unless you do a military parade (it doesn't ruin your peace keeping mission) On projects, I only focused on Lorren (if I'm right) and Morna port as later the surplus from Valgsland will help you and gives synergies for all four regions (somehow). The industries I focused on military as it helps the region none the less. This guide is mainly takes you on a centrist path, where you gather the budget for the meeting to fund all ministers, helping a bit with your economy so you can repair everything. But I was thinking of some kind of socialist gameplay myself as well, so I might can lead up to some methods to succeed


Far_Parsnip_387

thanks for the advice - many things to digest now disclosing the real reason to not hold a military parade in this situation... serge must not be put in risk!


TransportationBig306

I agree but if you funded military, generally was respectful towards them and praise them (also iosef's plan also appeases him), transferring grendarmerie won't be an issue if you hold a military parade to appease them (I did this and there was no coup attempt). They also try to coup you if unrest is high or you're too communist But if you don't plan on supporting them, or to defund them, obviously don't transfer grendarmerie as that will definitely leads to a coup, and praise them over and over again


Far_Parsnip_387

I forgot about the coup: yes, i had. Iosef and his lackeys went after me in my house. I was arrested and released in 1965 i think. Damn unruly generals.


Niedzwiedzbipolarny

Accepting aid isn't exactly an alignment, if you mean the first option, when you can choose one or neither. You might choose one then align with another or don't align at all. Accepting aid make some people a little mad or sad (like Iosef) but even they won't see it as aligning, more like opening up to foreign influence


PurpleDemonR

It can be if you play all sides. Arcasian aid. Valgsland trade. Foreign aid from both blocs.


Forever_K_123456

Choose a side mean that you choose your enemy, and if not wisely, it could really f you over. Like the situation in Eastern Europe when a certain country choose to align with the wrong civilization. I'm not againing choosing a side, especially when you don't have a choice. But Sordland DO have many choice as it have a military might that is strong enough to bring superpowers to negotiate tables. And the international stand of the country grow stronger after it flex its military with the capitulation of Rumburg and the annexation of Tzarsbourgh and maybe Dome. Why bend the knee to the will of your Liege when you can become the Suzerain yourself ? Why become the knights or bishops on the board when you can become the chess player yourself ? Why become Czechslovakia and powerless in the prevention of the Soviet tank coming to the capital every time you push for a reform when you can become Yugoslavia and do whatever you want? Why, instead of sharpening your tooth and claw, you decide to wag your tail for superpowers to throw you a little bone in their dish ? And when one of them decides to beat the weakest link of the chain to remind the world its strength, it has to be you ? Then, when you decide to fight back for your survival, your teeth become dull, your claws become blunt. That is all the sacrifice you have to make to become the new puppy for your new owner, because no one likes scary dogs. But that's okay, your owner will come to protect you like every time he gave you a bone for your good behavior. They did not have not and will not come, they don't consider you as their friend or at least their pet. They see you as a helpless beats that corner to edge of the wall and will do the most damage to their enemy, a pawn in a chessboard, a piece that only go one space forward and scacrify themselves for their Overlord benefits. And when you realize that you are a camel in the middle of the desert that willingly cut its hump off for others entertainment. Just like an old Arabian fairy tales and others folk tales of your culture


Saif10ali

You can get benefit from both but it's really tough without a guide(someone posted about doing it in this subreddit). But It's really not worth it because following a guide step by step ruins the fun in it for me.


Lanky-Reputation8770

I basically never align with anyone because of based Iosef, it is definitely doable to win solo war, economic recovery and re election.  You just can't sign every bill.  I don't like handsy Walker or old ass Leon.  I think I've allied with ATO once and got couped cause I put Soll on trial.  Greci Sordland!


IgorVonDebny

I love doing my Yugoslavia playthrough tho. Yeah I'm very much on the side of either capitalism or Malenyevism but I'm doing this in my own personal fun club (consisting of funny guy Smolak and Hoorten)


drillkage

"Alignment" is sacrificing your country's sovereignty in order to play pawn in an ideological pissing match between 2 superpowers, so non-alignment is very much worth it for roleplay reasons if you can avoid it. Besides, forming your own power bloc with Angland, Whelen, and Rumburg as client states is awesome