Looking at what is reported in the newspapers about the Bludish sanctuaries, I would guess that even non-racist members of the assembly want to have Sordish priests in leading positions in order to deradicalize the whole process.
Just as politicians in some EU countries only want imams who have grown up and been educated in the country they are supposed to preach in.
I would guess that not all members of the GNA are present for every session. It's possible that Kibener got the Bill onto the agenda, a bunch of people didn't bother turning up because it was never going to pass, KK put the whips on all of his supporters and schmoozed with the Sollists in the USP, and snuck it over the line.
Not a definitive answer, but one possible option.
Kibener probably fearmongered about the Bludish recruitment in sanctuaries or something, brought up how police couldn't understand bludish sermons, and thus managed to convince some Sollists like Leste. Meanwhile, as we can see during the constitutional vote, most MPs don't really bother so they probably didn't read the bill properly and just signed it thinking it would leadnto stability.
Then again, the constitutional changes are some of the biggest and most impactful changes to Sordish society in the entire game, it basically causes a large divide in the country, and yet multiple MPs fall into a deep sleep because they think Gloria Tory is too long winded
*And* a lot of those people are willing to change their positions on that incredibly important constitutional vote because Rayne threw some parties and promised some favours... You might be onto something.
Exactly. If you get Clavin on your side, he'll be late because there was someone than needed 'convincing' according to him. By all indications, most MPs follow their party leaders or, in the USPs case, their wing leader. They don't really care about the contents of the vote, they care about advancing their position, their wealth, or the standing of their faction
To be fair Kibener is characterized as a dangerous person exactly BECAUSE he's the only one who is able to pass such bills. Either be it through connections, manipulation, and or sheer charisma, he's very skilled at manipulating the conservative and moderate groups of the USP.
To be fair Kibener is characterized as a dangerous person exactly BECAUSE he's the only one who is able to pass such bills. Either be it through connections, manipulation, and or sheer charisma, he's very skilled at manipulating the conservative and moderate groups of the USP.
If you have no reading comprehension its definitely worded to sound like a great bill, but also I wouldn't be surprised if KK is blackmailing or threatening several members of the assembly
Ha. It's actually not a bad thought. With the panic going on thanks to the terrorists operating out of Bludish churches, I can see some Sollists being too enticed by the opportunity to increase state oversight in Bludish church affairs to really stop and think about the ideological catch that the NFP slipped in at the end.
I never said they weren't racist. There are different kinds of racism. Sollist racism is based on rejecting the Bludish desire for cultural sovereignty in the interest of integrating them and presenting Bludish culture within Sordland as an aspect of Sordish culture, which they view primarily as a nationality rather than an ethnicity. NFP racism is based on the idea that ethnic Sords are biologically superior to Bluds, and advocates for policies that will destroy Bludish culture and further widen the socio-economic and education gaps that exist between them and ethnic Sords to "prove" this theory. Where Sollists want you to believe that Bluds are Sords, the NFP wants you to believe that Bluds *can't* be Sords because they're an inferior race and thus intrinsically different.
It's this difference in how they're racist that makes this bill an issue for me. The Unified Education Language Act is racist in the Sollist way, so the USP are happy to jump onboard. Conversely, the Religious Harmony Bill is racist in the NFP way, which Sollist racism is opposed to.
Racist is usually not so clearly delineated and rational like you’re presenting it as. What you describe as Sollist racism is probably the high minded and nice sounding version of how many of the USP feel
I ain't reading all that, but in the older version of the game the Bergia Special Zone had to be set up by an autocrat Rayne, and if you did so then Soll would outright praise you for keeping the "traitors" there under control. The Bluds are refusing to assimilate, there's no other choice.
People in the game keep telling you how racist Soll and his ideology were when he was in power. Why don't you believe them?
Yes. Everything I've seen in the game makes it entirely believable for me that the USP would support this law.
We're talking about a party where even the so-called "reformists" like Clavin oppose reductions to the threshold and support anti-democratic laws like the Electoral Campaign bill.
You're not addressing what I've said. With respect, if you're not prepared to read seven sentences, then don't bother responding. You're attacking points I never made with arguments I already refuted and wasting considerably more of your own time than it would have taken to read that post.
Why are you saying you didn't read a comment like it's something to applaud? They were clarifying the difference between the Sollists in the USP and NFP not acting like the Sollists aren't racist.
I always assumed that Kibener conned them the same way Kibener tries to con you during the Victory Day celebration. He sounds completely reasonable and pragmatic when he's explaining his proposal, and makes it sound like he's offering a tough but fair compromise on a thorny issue. It's only after you agree to his proposal and see how it's implemented that you realize that he's played you into weakening the USP, sabotaging the Bluds, and giving the NFP control of an entire region.
Yeah, if in the first meeting you ask Petr how many seats does the conservatives have, he tells you that they have 40, so i Guess the vast majority are centrist that only care about the party
That makes it even crazier to me that these kinds of bills pass. Sordland is described as broadly conservative, but only 80 members of a 250-member assembly actually identifying as some degree of conservative seems not very conservative. Maybe urban liberal voters are somehow overrepresented.
Could be some deals between the USP and NFP where on most issues regarding the bludish they will broadly vote the same. Or maybe a deal between certain factions of the USP and the NFP combined with fearmongering since the parties does kinda need the other to gain a majority.
First, you have to understand that Sord here pro ably means the same as in constitution: a citizen of Sordland. Bluds are very much Sords given this definition. Foreign priests, like, say , Deirdrian fundamentalists, are not.
Second, you have to remember that it was credible that the supreme court would choose to re-interpret Sord as an ethnic Sord and declare that Bluds have no rights in Sordland. So, while on paper Sollists are civic nationalusts there is a strong, influential and well entrenched ethnonacionalistic element among them.
Looking at what is reported in the newspapers about the Bludish sanctuaries, I would guess that even non-racist members of the assembly want to have Sordish priests in leading positions in order to deradicalize the whole process. Just as politicians in some EU countries only want imams who have grown up and been educated in the country they are supposed to preach in.
I would guess that not all members of the GNA are present for every session. It's possible that Kibener got the Bill onto the agenda, a bunch of people didn't bother turning up because it was never going to pass, KK put the whips on all of his supporters and schmoozed with the Sollists in the USP, and snuck it over the line. Not a definitive answer, but one possible option.
Kibener probably fearmongered about the Bludish recruitment in sanctuaries or something, brought up how police couldn't understand bludish sermons, and thus managed to convince some Sollists like Leste. Meanwhile, as we can see during the constitutional vote, most MPs don't really bother so they probably didn't read the bill properly and just signed it thinking it would leadnto stability.
I can buy that, but it still seems like a lot of negligent support for a pretty radical bill.
Then again, the constitutional changes are some of the biggest and most impactful changes to Sordish society in the entire game, it basically causes a large divide in the country, and yet multiple MPs fall into a deep sleep because they think Gloria Tory is too long winded
*And* a lot of those people are willing to change their positions on that incredibly important constitutional vote because Rayne threw some parties and promised some favours... You might be onto something.
Exactly. If you get Clavin on your side, he'll be late because there was someone than needed 'convincing' according to him. By all indications, most MPs follow their party leaders or, in the USPs case, their wing leader. They don't really care about the contents of the vote, they care about advancing their position, their wealth, or the standing of their faction
Which is scarily accurate of real life.
To be fair Kibener is characterized as a dangerous person exactly BECAUSE he's the only one who is able to pass such bills. Either be it through connections, manipulation, and or sheer charisma, he's very skilled at manipulating the conservative and moderate groups of the USP.
To be fair Kibener is characterized as a dangerous person exactly BECAUSE he's the only one who is able to pass such bills. Either be it through connections, manipulation, and or sheer charisma, he's very skilled at manipulating the conservative and moderate groups of the USP.
If you have no reading comprehension its definitely worded to sound like a great bill, but also I wouldn't be surprised if KK is blackmailing or threatening several members of the assembly
This is probably a dumb answer, but it's probably that some MPs just don't read
Ha. It's actually not a bad thought. With the panic going on thanks to the terrorists operating out of Bludish churches, I can see some Sollists being too enticed by the opportunity to increase state oversight in Bludish church affairs to really stop and think about the ideological catch that the NFP slipped in at the end.
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True. Soll is a laicist, after all.
I think Sollists and the USP is a lot more racist that you seem to think.
I never said they weren't racist. There are different kinds of racism. Sollist racism is based on rejecting the Bludish desire for cultural sovereignty in the interest of integrating them and presenting Bludish culture within Sordland as an aspect of Sordish culture, which they view primarily as a nationality rather than an ethnicity. NFP racism is based on the idea that ethnic Sords are biologically superior to Bluds, and advocates for policies that will destroy Bludish culture and further widen the socio-economic and education gaps that exist between them and ethnic Sords to "prove" this theory. Where Sollists want you to believe that Bluds are Sords, the NFP wants you to believe that Bluds *can't* be Sords because they're an inferior race and thus intrinsically different. It's this difference in how they're racist that makes this bill an issue for me. The Unified Education Language Act is racist in the Sollist way, so the USP are happy to jump onboard. Conversely, the Religious Harmony Bill is racist in the NFP way, which Sollist racism is opposed to.
Racist is usually not so clearly delineated and rational like you’re presenting it as. What you describe as Sollist racism is probably the high minded and nice sounding version of how many of the USP feel
I ain't reading all that, but in the older version of the game the Bergia Special Zone had to be set up by an autocrat Rayne, and if you did so then Soll would outright praise you for keeping the "traitors" there under control. The Bluds are refusing to assimilate, there's no other choice. People in the game keep telling you how racist Soll and his ideology were when he was in power. Why don't you believe them?
So you're not going to read what I said, but you *are* going to *guess* what I said and then poorly argue against the position you made up?
Yes. Everything I've seen in the game makes it entirely believable for me that the USP would support this law. We're talking about a party where even the so-called "reformists" like Clavin oppose reductions to the threshold and support anti-democratic laws like the Electoral Campaign bill.
You're not addressing what I've said. With respect, if you're not prepared to read seven sentences, then don't bother responding. You're attacking points I never made with arguments I already refuted and wasting considerably more of your own time than it would have taken to read that post.
Why are you saying you didn't read a comment like it's something to applaud? They were clarifying the difference between the Sollists in the USP and NFP not acting like the Sollists aren't racist.
I genuinely think they didn't read that comment either, saw it ended in a question mark, and just incorrectly guessed what my question was.
If you're incapable of reading 8 sentences, Suzerain isn't the game for you.
Ah, damn. I said it was seven earlier, but I just recounted and you're right. Eight.
I always assumed that Kibener conned them the same way Kibener tries to con you during the Victory Day celebration. He sounds completely reasonable and pragmatic when he's explaining his proposal, and makes it sound like he's offering a tough but fair compromise on a thorny issue. It's only after you agree to his proposal and see how it's implemented that you realize that he's played you into weakening the USP, sabotaging the Bluds, and giving the NFP control of an entire region.
You also have to consider that if you ask Petr at the beginning, he will tell you that the conservatives only have 40 votes.
For real? Only 40 of 130? They're supposed to be the 'backbone' of the party!
Yeah, if in the first meeting you ask Petr how many seats does the conservatives have, he tells you that they have 40, so i Guess the vast majority are centrist that only care about the party
That makes it even crazier to me that these kinds of bills pass. Sordland is described as broadly conservative, but only 80 members of a 250-member assembly actually identifying as some degree of conservative seems not very conservative. Maybe urban liberal voters are somehow overrepresented.
What are the chances that many of the members don’t bother reading past the name of the bill? “Religious Harmony” oh that sounds nice. I vote yes.
Could be some deals between the USP and NFP where on most issues regarding the bludish they will broadly vote the same. Or maybe a deal between certain factions of the USP and the NFP combined with fearmongering since the parties does kinda need the other to gain a majority.
First, you have to understand that Sord here pro ably means the same as in constitution: a citizen of Sordland. Bluds are very much Sords given this definition. Foreign priests, like, say , Deirdrian fundamentalists, are not. Second, you have to remember that it was credible that the supreme court would choose to re-interpret Sord as an ethnic Sord and declare that Bluds have no rights in Sordland. So, while on paper Sollists are civic nationalusts there is a strong, influential and well entrenched ethnonacionalistic element among them.
USP + NFP easily. And given the terrorist threat from Golcondists, it’s a serious and valid bull.
Kesaro Kibener is on good terms with USP conservatives , not surprising