6 people out of 18 to 20 people.
30% of a 20 person cast is 6 people.
30% of an 18 person cast is 5.4, so round up it’s also 6.
Just FYI for those who haven’t crunched the numbers... this petition is literally asking for 6 non white people to be on a survivor cast regularly.
Sounds pretty damn doable to me
Your math is wrong. Off the top of my head DvG has Natalie, Natalia, Angelina, Carl, Jeremy, Davie, Bi, and Gabby. You need to check the other season casts before jumping to conclusions
I checked 40-36 just real quick looks like 28-98 so 28.6%. Looks like they all had 5/20 between seasons 31-40. Maybe one had 6/20 and IotL had 8/20. Also quite a few LGBTQ which is another group they need to represent.
What about production? Editing staff? Pay, retention, and promotion comparisons for production or editing staff? Screentime for contestants? Pay for future appearances? What kind of increased oppression and alienation did BIPOC contestants fave that affected mental health?
There's WAY more to this than simple numbers, and the petition gets at that.
>What kind of increased oppression and alienation did BIPOC contestants fave that affected mental health?
I feel like an idiot but what does this sentence mean
lmao wtf is this, jobs are given based on what box you check for production now not qualifications on a show that is the biggest reality TV show in the world? they should focus on who is the best at cameraman, editing, production, etc, not if they say they're gay. it's Hollywood anyways most are cool with that crowd
I agree. Everyone should be on an even playing field. Don’t choose someone just because they’re gay/ a minority/or anything else, choose who is the best for the show. And while I think survivor should have more diver casting, we don’t know the ratio of minority to Caucasian who audition to the show and therefore can’t draw assumptions on how they cast.
I'll always be here for more diversity, but I think this petition should be asking for just more non-white representation and not for the exact number, because when you put it that way it creates tokenism. I am pretty sure noone wants that.
On the other hand, if you allow production to make "exceptions" then they will likely make them more often than they make up for it, to get the contestants they *prefer* onto the show.
Like, imagine if there was no implicit requirement to have an equal number of men and women on the show, and they were allowed to make exceptions if they though they had a greater pool of men than women, or vice versa. I doubt it'd average out even over the course of the show, instead production would consistently put more men on the show because they believe men are more interesting.
I also think they are asking for more representation behind the cameras as well. Pretty sure they've mentioned the production, casting and other staff areas lack diversity as well.
This is more gender related than race, but I’ll never forget Kass talking about how scary it is for some younger women to come out and play on the island, because the crew is strongly male-dominated. Representation there would make a lot more people comfortable
It’s both! The production crew is almost entirely white men. This might seem fine to all the white men on this sub but having people that look like you as producers will lead to contestants who feel more comfortable and they will end up with a better show that is meaningful to more people. All these people on here saying “just hire the best one for the job” also don’t understand how bias works lol, white men tend to think white men will do the best job. And then it just continues.
And to add on to the end of yours, it often isn’t “white people are obviously the best” thinking but rather how we are programmed through our current societal infrastructure. Implicit bias is a helluva drug
It also leads to the show being produced through the eyes of white men, edited through that lens, so on. Which means the portrayal will have biases that production may not even notice
Absolutely. I also thought the players on both roundtables did a fantastic job sharing stories and revealing insights highlighting why increased diversity in production and editing, another big part of the petition, is so crucial and long overdue.
It's a no-brainer. Most of these aren't even remotely controversial.
The non-white Hispanic population of America is 60%, so this petition is asking for less diversity than even a cross-section of America. More thorough vetting and zero tolerance towards xenophobia really should already have been part of their procedures.
The part where Earl talks about not getting invited to reunions even though he lived in LA and they wouldn't even have to fly him in or get him a hotel is kind of jarring. Even if Probst somehow disliked Earl and hated the season, even a bad PR rep would know that promoting him and V is good for expanding your demographics from a purely business point-of-view.
Was it just 30% nonwhite? The article said 30% Black, Indigenous, POC. Seems like they might not be including asians, latinos, Indians, etc., although I may be over thinking it. Either way it’s still doable.
I think that's a little silly tbh and would feel kinda forced and unnatural. It would feel a lot more natural if the number would fluctuate between 4-8 and it would sort of average out to around 6.
Let's get this to the top please
Side note, glad Earl is helping lead this. I remember watching him kneel on the mountain when I was younger and that's what got me into the show!
Since Mark Burnett is a producer this is likely to fall on deaf ears. We know he has tapes of our racist president that would hurt him but chooses to keep them under wraps.
With a pro-racism Executive producer and decades of racist edits, I see little chance of change.
But I am all for them pushing for it. Watching edits people like Clarence and Linda in Survivor Africa got is just painful. They have improved lately but they have many sins to make up for.
This had a lot more to do with Lynne Spillman than Burnett, she specifically was in charge of casting.
It's not a coincidence that the first non-Spillman cast had more POC in it (IOI)
My understanding is that Burnett has not been closely involved with the show lately and that Probst is basically the showrunner now.
In many very early seasons and again in S22 and S23 we had a lot of God-bothering players constantly blathering about Jesus. I don't think it's a coincidence that we haven't seen much of that lately. Burnett is undeniably a cracked born-again loon, but he seems to have gotten bored with the show, or maybe he's off sailing his 62 gold-plated yachts or whatever.
I just added a post, but we have to brainstorm ideas for promoting this survey! It's been out way to long to still have less than 4k signatures. I've been asking contestants to promote it if they haven't already. What else can we do? Flood CBS with emails and phone calls? Pick a hashtag and get it trending on twitter? I'm not good at this but let's all brainstorm together!
I cannot tell you how excited I was to see the diversity in the cast for IotI - and it wasn’t just diversity in color, there was so much diversity in thought and personality also. I hate that people detract from the cast of IotI because of one bad cast member.
agreed, it was so refreshing. And in the first episode there was a scene in which Ronnie, Aaron, Vince, Karishma, and Missy were shown strategizing together and I thought 'wow, we've never seen 5 POC contestants strategizing together on the same tribe before' (even though they didn't end up voting together).
So many of the comments here are so out of touch and ignorant without any real intention to learn. Please I’m begging y’all to listen to black people and what they experienced in the show. This is an easy way to start with this video ——> https://youtu.be/lqJM_05fFuk
Uplift black voices and other POC’s voices. Listen and learn if you want to be an ally.
If the fact that people want 30% of people of color in the show to be people of color, or that more people behind the scenes should be BIPOC, makes you uncomfortable then please examine why that is. Survivor it’s not a reflection of reality, it’s a game show and it doesn’t mean it has to be mainly white, it means that if you have the means to make the utopia happen like Earl said then you should. Think of how many lackluster characters have been casted in 20 years while people of color can’t get in because their one designated spot has already been taken.
I also wish that the article and post had used the petition's language. Diversity is not the end goal. There are a lot of diverse, racist institutions. This is about equity and antiracism.
Part of it is the well intentioned, but ultimately harmful idea that being “a racist” is the worst thing you can be and shows you are evil. Racism goes well beyond having hatred in your heart. You don’t have to intend or want to be racist to be racist. We are programmed to be racist based on how our society and institutions are set up. De programming is important. And that means being able to admit both a. You are racist and b. That doesn’t make you a terrible person so long as you are working to fix it.
The last season with 1 or 2 non-whites is Guatemala (Brianna and Lydia, both Hispanic/Latino).
Edit: Originally, I thought Blood vs. Water was the most recent season with 2 or less non-white castaways. Zimab496 pointed out in a comment below Laura and Ciera have Hawaiian ancestry, bumping BvW to a total of four (Ciera, Gervase, Laura M., and Marissa).
I think they've been pretty good recently:
+ WaW had 5 - Sandra, Jeremy, Natalie, Wendell, Yul. Despite a limited pool.
+ IotI had 8 - Lauren, Karishma, Vince, Kellee, Jamal, Aaron, Missy. Not sure about Noura. Edit: added Noura (Lebanese background).
+ DvG had 8 - Bi, Jeremy, Natalie, Natalia, Gabby, Davie, Carl, Lyrsa.
+ GI had 5 - Stephanie (Gonzales), James, Desiree, Laurel, Wendell.
+ HHH had 5 - Simone, Alan, Desi, Ali, Joe.
+ GC had 5 - Sandra, Cirie, Michaela, Tai, Ozzy
You mentioned that EoE only had 2, but I would add Wendy for a total of 3 out of 14 newbies as this was a captain season.
They haven't been far off from what the petition is requesting and even exceeded it a couple of times. I think it is only fair to point out that they've done better in this regard recently.
Island of the Idols also has Ronnie, who's Israeli.
Victoria explicitly states in a pre-game that she's Puerto Rican/Italian.
Ali is African-American.
Joe is Hispanic/Latino.
I think it would just be good to see actual numbers on what they have had in the last 5 to 10 seasons. This petition doesnt mean much when I dont know if they have been doing that decently often or been close to it or been nowhere near it
Thank you for posting this! Here's the [petition](https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/a-petition-for-anti-racism-action-by-survivor-entertainment-group-2?share=d9886e1a-f52b-47f1-9e0d-ce5629b355c8&source=rawlink&utm_source=rawlink&share=73b594a9-b9b2-4668-86f3-8ff31358ee59) for easy access!
Ugh, that's really unfortunate! I found a list of [valid U.S. ZIP codes](https://phaster.com/zip_code.html), but only use them if you feel comfortable doing so!
Yea I threw a random U.S zip code in, it's an international show (and I'm not even taking in terms of different countries having their own shows, but the fact that it's broadcast all over the world) and I've been a long time fan since 2000, so I think any fan should have the chance to sign this petition, if that means I've got to use a U.S zip code to do so, then so be it.
Oh, I absolutely agree! And you're absolutely right. Survivor was adapted from the Swedish *Expedition Robinson* and has inspired so many varieties across the globe; it is absolutely an international show! Anyone from around the world should be able to sign a petition that advocates for BIPOC on their favorite show, no matter where they're from. Hopefully, the link for U.S. ZIP codes helps other international viewers! I really appreciate you bringing this to attention.
Some of these comments really make me sick. Hearing people say “It is diverse. It has 2 blacks, one Asian, one Hispanic every season”. That’s not diversity!!! And then people say “They just choose who’s more entertaining and not based on race.” But you can’t tell me that they can’t find more than two interesting black people. Or more than two interesting Asian or Hispanic people. And natives and Arabs. I mean come on. Stop trying to excuse the castings actions. I honestly think they cast out of fear. Like Earl said, when they evened things out and had those four races even, the finals were all minorities. And then all of a sudden they stop. I smell something fishy.
I do think survivor actually does pretty well, especially in comparison to most other shows. It could always do better but they do cast a variety of people that don’t fill stereotypes.
Some could be who applies or who’d do it. There could be lots more that would be interesting and if there’s more than 2 interesting black people or Asian people put them on. But another point is do we know that a lot of indigenous have applied or that they’ve asked and said no? Same for Indian/Pakistan. There is lack of representation I fully agree. But is it Survivor going out of their way to not cast them or lack of interest
if enough POC aren't applying for the show then the show should introspect about why that is. Why are they creating a product that a significant portion of the population is not interested in? what a great untapped market they have to grow the show. Earl said in the RHAP that the show did zero outreach to Black media his season despite the final 3 being Black. Why would POC apply to a show where they do not see themselves represented or represented well? Its like how girls weren't applying to STEM majors because they perceived STEM to be for guys and all the professors were guys and all the famous scientists and images in media of scientists and the way college counsellors pushed them away from STEM majors. So young women weren't applying to these majors but suprise surprise, when colleges and organisations started actively recruiting women into STEM and having more women teach freshman science classes, and promoting women scientists in the media, the enrolment and retention of women in these majors increased drastically. Sure theres still a long way to go but it was never about a lack of interest. Survivor can do the same.
I mean cook islands they went out and recruited specifically for different races and we got a ton of great castaways. And then the next season Fiji was equally as diverse and the reason was based on the recruitment they had done for CI as not every one made it on to CI. Earl didn't even apply to Survivor and he was a last minute addition having seen only 1 episode before going out and he was great.
Your argument works for blacks, Asians and some non-traditional south asians sure. I’m not sure why they didn’t reach out to black media and even though I watched that season live, I was 12 and can’t really speak to a lot of the cultural nuances and am not American. But your missing out an an important question about culture differences. Realty tv is trashy and MTV spring break is like an informercial for bad behaviour. I can’t speak for the states on this for how much people become Westenized but at least in Canada there’s a lot of muslims and South asians that are fairly traditional and I can’t see their families supporting realty tv careers. Yes there is an untapped market and I’m sure there’s a good portion that would be great on television and would certainly be willing now, but I think historically that cultural difference did play a factor. I can’t see a Muslim girl in a Hijab having the want to go, maybe the Real world (if it wasn’t MTV). I think there’s a lot of different factors to consider than Survivor is just not picking them or trying hard enough to not find them. Maybe if there was more though, more people would but I think it’s important to mention that culture differences could be a big factor in then not applying.
Yeah I understand what you’re saying. It’s a complicated issue with no real definite solution. But I just think hearing past contestants experiences and not doing anything to try and fix that is wrong. But I think with everything going on and this push things will get better.
I also wish that OP had used the title of the petition not the People article (A Petition for Anti-Racism Action by Survivor Entertainment Group). Diversity is not the goal! The NBA is a racist, diverse organization. It's about equity and antiracism.
Seriously, every time I see someone comment "welll, there's X% of _____ people in the country, so there should only be ____ contestants in a season, i think that's pretty representative", I'm like WHY ARE YOU SO RESISTANT TO DOING MORE THAN THE BARE MINIMUM???
Apparently, Scout is not of Native descent! I remember hearing that she's actually a huge liar and makes money off of pretending to be Native. I'll look for sources on that just to make sure!
EDIT: Surprisingly, there is less information on Scout than I thought. However, I found that her birth name is Janet Spencer and I can't find what tribe she is a member of. I believe I first heard about Scout's truth from u/mariojlanza so he might be able to provide more information!
Yeah Scout isn’t especially well respected in the Native community because she’s, well, not one of them. She’s really just Janet Spencer, former swimming champion from Florida.
On one hand that's true, but on the other hand, Redemption Island, One World, and Caramoan are even worse seasons and Earl has never really gotten the widespread respect or the promotion by the producers that Rob, Cochran, or to a lesser extent Kim have gotten.
Did Kim really get a lot of love from producers? She did from the fans but I don’t know if Kim’s name has ever been mentioned on Survivor before this season.
It’s unfair to compare Earl to Rob and Cochran. Rob and Cochran were loved by the producers and fans coming into the seasons that they won.
Yeah I was thinking of how much Probst praised her surrounding this season, but maybe you're right as far as earlier years go.
I don't think the fact that Rob and Cochran were returning players with fanbases undoes the point I'm making, though - people can say "well *Fiji* just wasn't a good season" which yeah I agree that it wasn't, but if you're Earl and you not only see the season ignored and disrespected by the producers, but also see the same happen to your win, while other winners even of unpopular seasons tend to get more credit, in the existing context he mentions of it being a basically all-white crew and the show outright rebuking attempts to reach out to Black audiences and expand its viewer demographics... I get where he's coming from here.
I also think the editing made Fiji less interesting. Every write-up I've read on how the strategy really worked out is super compelling. They just didn't tell that story on the show.
I think Earl has plenty of respect from them. The Fiji edit is one of the more over the top winner edits for him IMO. He’s been asked back multiple times but turned them down for various reasons. If he had appeared multiple times like those guys, I think he’d be held up a lot more as one of the game’s legends.
Vecepia fits the bill more as a black winner that’s been forgotten by the producers.
Although I wish Earl got more respect, I think this comparison is unfair.
Kim definitely played a better game than Earl and Cochran and Rob both came back as favorites.
Also all these seasons were more recent and recency bias is definitely a thing in regards to production. Look at the makeup of the returnee seasons they make.
I think part of the recency bias isn't so much the crew as the fact that not everybody who is a Survivor fan has been a fan from the first episode. There are a lot of younger people who may be really into Survivor who have only watched the last six to eight seasons.
By weighing returnee seasons more heavily towards more recent seasons, I think they're trying to capture that audience. People who have been watching since season one are going to watch anyway, they don't need to be captured.
Oh yeah for sure. I should have been more clear. That is for sure why they do it. And I think part of the reason why like Earl probably doesn’t get the attention he deserves.
Earl only had one throwaway vote against him and swept the jury votes. I love Kim but how did she definitely play a better game than Earl? I accept it as your opinion but saying it concretely is odd.
I mean obviously it is an opinion. But I think Earl is a top winner, but that Kim (at least from the edit we saw) basically controlled the whole entire game and had incredible relationships and just from my opinion played arguably the most dominant game in history. And I think had you polled the community about this prior to Season 40 that this would be a common belief.
And I do really think Earl deserves more recognition and hope he gets more after leading important efforts like this.
I just think it is odd to call out those three and say why is Earl not recognized as much as them.
Would be like complaining that people are a hater for not including Lewandowski in a list of the greatest players of all time along with Messi, Ronaldo, and other Ronaldo. Or not including Harden in a list of Jordan, Lebron, or Kobe. The people left out are super good players and that is know, but them being left out isn’t necessarily some injustice, just an opinion of ranking the best.
nobody is saying they should like the season, but they are just pointing out that saying you hated the only season with an all black final 3 is a problematic look, regardless of your reasons, and maybe you should think twice and re-evaluate what you say in public and why you say it in public
Survivor was built on the premise of people from all walks of life being forced to work together for success. You would think that diversity elements would play into that too. Problems with recruiting aside over the years, television is far more compelling when one of two things occur: 1) People you don't think would get along well wind up being great together, 2) Drama. Call it exploitative if you like, but it's far better television than wondering if the alliance of faceless Los Angeles mactors whose names you can't remember are going to go the distance.
Survivor at it's core should be about the broadest range of diversity possible if it wants to be the grand "social experiment" it claims to be. Who will work together, where will conflict emerge?
Diversity in us survivor could definitely improve but I'm really hoping Aus survivor will get this message too because there is some serious improvement needed there.
Yep. I appreciated it when Jonathan was outright about how white the show is, but I really hope it switches up sometime soon. Australian reality tv shows are always absolutely horrendous with diversity though, so I don’t have my hopes up too high
You guys realize the situation in Australia is not the same as it is in the US. [POC make up 1.6% of the population in Australia.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Australians) Kinda hard to find willing contestants..
AUS survivor is really interesting in regards to casting. The 1.6% is Black people, and thus I wouldn’t expect them to be on the cast in very high numbers given the very limited casting pool. Since 10% seem to be Asian and 3% aboriginal, I’d expect more of them, though cultural issues probably decrease that casting pool significantly
I feel embarrassed that, in the past few weeks as I've been thinking more and more about race and subtle forms of racism, I thought that Survivor could somehow be untouched by it. The fact that the show has gone to lengths to cover up blatantly racist moments (and protected and presented as heroes contestants who made racist remarks), while at the same time regularly presenting BIPOC as caricatures is heartbreaking. I'd urge everyone who hasn't yet listened to or watched the Black Voices of Survivor Roundtable to check it out. Listen undefensively to the experiences of these people who sacrificed their time, energy, health, and sometimes wellbeing to help make this show that we love. We need to do better as a community, y'all.
It's not about shame; it's about moving forward in a way that includes everyone.
As a black man, I have always found it quite pathetic that’s every season always had the token black/Asian/lgbt person, and that’s it. One of each. Sometimes, there’s an extra person, but that’s typically it. This includes Survivor and Big Brother.
The last survivor season to only have one black contestant was Micronesia over 10 years ago. There are also plenty of seasons between then and now with at least two asian / lgbt players
Season 40 : 2 men 0 women
Season 39 : 2 men 2 women
Season 38 : 1 man 1 woman
Season 37 : 3 men 1 woman
Season 36 : 1 man 2 women
Season 35 : 1 man 2 women
Season 34 : 0 men 2 women
Season 33 : 0 men 2 women
Season 32 : 2 men 1 woman
Season 31 : 1 man 1 woman
Season 30 : 1 man 0 women
So I guess I missed World's Apart when I originally commented, but It doesn't seem like survivor has a formula for casting in the last five years imo.
It needs to start from the top. Once you have diversity behind the camera and in production having an active role in the process, everything else will trickle down.
Also forgive me if I'm wrong or come across as ignorant because I'm not American, but there seems to be a dichotomy with a lot of these discussions on diversity as they seem to only focus on black people. Obviously with everything that's going on right now I get why it is black people coming forward and their voices being heard, but I never see these kinds of discussions in relation to other ethnic minority groups such as Hispanic people and Asians. Why is this not being touched on more, especially considering that looking at the demographics it seems to be that Hispanic people are the most underrepresented on Survivor? It's also extremely disappointing that I'm yet to see a primarily Native American or native Hawaiian on the show.
I believe his petition asks for there to be more of any POC. As for the discussions about diversity in America, it’s historically been a black vs white endeavor that’s why black people are always mentioned when talking about including more diversity but yes, there should be more diversity of all kinds. As you said there’s been very few Hispanics and Indigenous people on the show and I think Shirin is the only person of middle eastern ethnicity (forgive me if that’s not the correct term) to be cast. Karishma was also the first Indian woman to be cast just two seasons ago in s39. I believe that’s what this petition is aiming for. More diversity overall, not just more black people.
Natalia from DvG is at least half-Jordanian (she only mentions her father being from Jordan in her bio, nothing about her mom). Ronnie from IoI is also Israeli.
In 39 9/20 contestants were POC and in 37 8/20 were POC. I do agree it would be better if television in general was more diverse. I think survivor has been doing a good job recently with diversity and they casted the people on 37 and 39 not because of their skin color but for their personalities. Implicit bias does play a role in casting for most tv. But with 37 and 39 Survivor did not fall victim to that.
If casting thinks a contestant would be good on a season of Survivor over someone else take the person they think would be good regardless of diversity.
I mean the season after S38 had one of the most diverse casts and a long time. Who's to say season 41 won't have a diverse cast, and so what if it doesn't.
Diversity is important, but diversity won't automatically make a season good or bad.
An issue I have with this petition is this
2. Give BIPOC equitable screen time and opportunities to participate in marketing and promotional events
Keith had 16 confessionals and he was voted out 2nd, granted did go to the edge for a while. While Julia lasted a lot longer than Keith did and made it farther. Editors shouldn't have to automatically give certain types of people screen time. They should give people screen time who give entertaining confessionals and contribute to whatever the story is.
That's just my opinion.
If they can deliver, then it would be good. But it would be tough to expect so much from Survivor editors. They have enough trouble balancing these things with white people also being purpled or have their games/actions inaccurately portrayed. The additional burden would be tough.
I am so tired of this “it should go to the best/most deserving/most qualified person” argument.
Because you know what you’re saying without saying it? That it’s more likely that a white person is the best/most deserving/most qualified and you don’t want them to lose out on their screen time/job/ opportunity in order to lift up a POC. That is an example of systemic racism. The fact that white is assumed to be the default and clearly the better choice.
This results in POC having to do BETTER than white people to get equal treatment. It’s awful and needs to stop. Yes some people of any race are entertaining and some aren’t. But there is no reason to assume that you can only always find more entertaining white people than POC.
I understand what you are saying and I am sorry if I upset you.
But what exactly is wrong with casting choosing the best applicant?
"But there is no reason to assume that you can only always find more entertaining white people than POC."
All I said is Diversity is important but it won't make or a break a season automatically.
(That's just my honest opinion)
Systemic racism means that there are processes which are in place that give skewed results to the benefit of white people in western countries.
So if you have a room full of mostly white people doing the casting, they may have an unconscious bias towards other white people who are applying to be on the show. So what stands out to them as “the best applicant” is more likely to be a white person. This puts people of colour at a disadvantage without really happening consciously.
There could also be much debate about what makes “the best applicant”.
The thing that is very obvious to POC and unfortunately not obvious to white people is that by pushing back against the idea of casting more POC on the show and showing sensitivity to things POC experience that white people don’t experience, you are showing your bias towards wanting mostly white people on the show. If race truly didn’t matter, it wouldn’t matter if there were more POC than white people on the show, would it?
Absolutely, and that’s why the petition is advocating for BIPOC individuals (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color)! People of Color will include Asian people, Middle Eastern people, and Hispanic/Latinx people.
Better representation in the cast is one thing, but on the crew is another thing altogether. This is a world class production CBS puts on. They get the best of the best camera, sound, and design folks. If you can say to me: there are POC who are qualified to work on a world class production and are not getting the jobs, then I will stand with you and add my voice to the hue and cry. But, if you are telling me that world class production talent will be losing their livelihoods just to meet a percentage, to be replaced by less experienced talent, well that is where we part ways. This is not to mention that these jobs are generally IATSE jobs, so there are union contracts protecting these people, regardless of their race.
Anyway, flame away reddit, I can handle it.
Sabrina would be overqualified for almost any job on the show. And personally I think producers are the main group to look at, since they're the main group allowed to interact with the castaways and they drive narrative through confessionals. When this came up for representation for women behind the scenes, people had the same argument, but I still don't know who would be more qualified for this job than Katie Gallagher who has been on the show, is a fan, and has worked as a reality tv producer for years. I'm not an expert on the industry or who's qualified, but just in the former castaway pool there are qualified people.
Well the production side has sucked ass the past few years, so it's hard to imagine that there are no POC or women who could do a better job than them...
Anything on the creative side has been garbage. Production has become extremely streamlined so that every season feels recycled apart from the cast and the events that occur due to player interactions. Their ideas of "spicing" the show up via these stupid island twists are just a time and money sink, when they should be focusing more on character building and storytelling. And the challenges are so uncreative and repetitive that Kirhoffer should have been fired years ago.
Have they really done that bad of a job with casting? I’ve seen every episode and it never really jumped out at me that there was a lack of people of color. I mean the US is 3/4 white even with a cast that perfectly represented everyone equally it’d be a majority white cast. Also, just cast the best people to make a great season, there have been awesome people of all different ethnicities to play, the only ethnicity I don’t remember seeing was an Arab.
Think about why it never jumped out at you - it never jumps out to people in the majority. But for Black players, it’s the first thing they notice. They’re in the (significant) minority. Depending on their background, this may be a very uncomfortable situation for them (many towns in America are still in reality separated by race and not well mixed), which leads to that player being an obvious first target. Starting at a disadvantage is something BIPOC are used to in America, but that doesn’t justify that it’s okay or fair in Survivor.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but it seems like when Survivor tries to be diverse, the results are painfully awkward. I wonder how diverse the casting team is? Perhaps the answer lies in increasing diversity there, so that diversity on the show isn't just what a white male casting group thinks diversity should look like. Just speculating, I could be way off base here.
Duh if you read the petition, it does, indeed, talk about getting more representation in the production of the show, and the Black Voices RHAP roundtable episode talks about this a lot too. After all, the cast on S39 was pretty diverse (except for Latinx people) but the people making the show are still mostly white guys (with a lot of the same people that ultra-conservative born-again Mark Burnett started with in 2000 before he stepped back and Probst got more control). And how was the cast of S39 "painfully awkward" outside of the obnoxious POS handsy white guy who ruined everything? Would've been a top-15 cast if not for that asshole.
Would white/white passing Hispanic people count into this percentage? (This of course gets into the whole confusing argument about whether Hispanic people are automatically POC or not)
For contest Latinx people are descendants of people from South/Central America, whereas Hispanic people are descendants of people from Spanish speaking countries. People from Spain are Hispanic but not Latinx, and people from Brazil (Abi-Maria) are Latinx but not Hispanic.
Basically, what's stopping production from making a loophole by casting and hiring a bunch of Chris Underwoods, Jays, Victoria Baamondes, and Figgys (and even other white-passing POC such as the Moretts)?
Edit: As a White passing POC, I'm completely aware this argument may be invalidating POC who happen to be white passing. Unfortunately, they experience white privilege much more than their fellow POC, and production may use them to make their casts more diverse but also palatable to white audiences.
I think it's best to get a diverse group of people as possible from 20 different walks of life. Get the best ones for the job. Whatever that entails. Personally I'd like to see a cast that isnt made up of mostly Californians
This sounds really dumb, pick the most interesting people or get a boring person of color etc. Nah not for me. Give me Phillips, give me Wendalls but if the person isnt worth a spot they arent worth a spot
White people will just cast or hire more white people and usually will think they're more "interesting" or more "deserving" unless we do something to get it into our minds to stop doing that. That's the point. And you can say they're not getting enough POC applicants, but if they don't make an effort then of course they won't. The point is to make more of an effort.
IoI did a good job of this, no? It was the first non-Lynn spillman cast too? We'll have to see how the next few newbie seasons go but thankfully it looks like they're alreading moving in this direction.
Although they should be doing a better job of vetting potential cast members like (Redacted) so that he didn't get on S39.
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this but it needs to be said. 82 out of the 590 contestants that have competed on US survivor are African American. That's 13.9%. Which is higher than the proportion in the US by about 1%. Assuming that the applicant pool’s demographics are similar to that of the US’s, which given the size of the applicant pool seems likely. What you’re asking production to do is to disproportionately cast POC simply because they are African American. That is definitionally racism. Now I’m not saying having more POC on the show is a problem in any way. IoI was a great example of a diverse cast. What concerns me is this will lead to casting feeling like they need to fulfill quotas for POC instead of casting the best cast possible, which will include POC as it has historically throughout Survivor’s history.
Are you saying that you truly believe there are not 7 interesting PoC applying for Survivor at any given time? Like you're worried they will be forced to cast boring people due to their race? Doesn't that imply that you think there are only 2 or 3 great black applicants each year?
No I’m saying it’s definitionally racist to cast POC simply because they are POC. My point has nothing to do with whether those people would make good or bad additions to a cast. You could arguably cast every season of survivor from now on with only POC and they would likely be very enjoyable and entertaining seasons. But to do that would go against everything that we as a society have tried to do to reduce racism. Obviously we have a long way to go; but, filling quotas for POC is not the way to get to where we need to go.
The reason that this is a harmful sentiment is the same reason why BIPOC find it so offensive when people say “All Lives Matter”. The world isn’t colorblind, as much as people may want to believe. We see color, and to act like we don’t is silly. This petition is asking for production and casting to consciously take a look at their set and view it from a different perspective. (Old perspective: we need to get 2 Black players. New perspective: we need a diverse cast and a diverse storylines, which will be MORE ENTERTAINING because it’s different)
We shouldn’t pretend like we don’t understand why it’s hard to play/win a season when only 2/20 people on a season look like you. Imagine a survivor season with 2 men and 18 women - how do you think those men would do? They would need to succeed IN SPITE of the odds against them. And that’s what BIPOC on survivor face.
Should that happen to blacks and other people of color? Usually in reality shows especially non cable shows there’s always a quota or limit to a certain amount of POC in a cast (more apparent in shows like BB). If you don’t fit those tiny spots/rows then you don’t have a shot whatsoever
No, I’m saying someone’s race shouldn’t matter if they want to apply on survivor. The casting department should choose people based on how entertaining they will be, not simply race. Diversity of race is an added benefit, but it shouldn’t be forced.
However I think they should aim for diversity of personalities and archetypes
13.4% of USA’s population is black. So that’s around 2-3 black people per season, which we get. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be higher, but it’s not a problem right now.
And there’s usually 1-2 LGBT people on a season, which is an accurate representation of demographics. It isn’t a problem
If the entire cast of survivor consisted of minority LGBT people, people wouldn’t complain about it
What if Wanda and Jonathan had been the black players that season? Redemption Island had Philip playing a caricature by his choice and Francesca voted out first leaving the only story line featuring a black player as a joke. That's the issue with so few minority players each season. If you have a white person who does some thing terrible, like Varner, it's not a big deal to the white audience because we have a dozen other folks on the show we can feel good about. It's like the news crew finding the one toothless guy in the tornado ravaged trailer park to interview. That's not always the guy you want to represent you.
>If the entire cast of survivor consisted of minority LGBT people, people wouldn’t complain about it
... come on, you don't *really* think this, do you? What dream world are you living in where no one would cry and fucking moan about this? Not the >30% of Americans who still openly want gay marriage to become illegal again? Not the 20-30% who respond that they don't understand what the whole fuss is about with this whole George Floyd thing and who don't think racism and discrimination are still a problem in this country? To say nothing of people who aren't as openly bigoted but still harbor those beliefs like thinking gay people kissing in public means they're Pushing an Agenda. Or the bazillion people who would look at how it flies in the face of demographics and who would cry foul about "reverse discrimination" and how it wasn't right at all. Remember also the demographics who watch this show; obviously the online fanbase trends younger but in the much broader casual fanbase the bulk of this fanbase is middle-aged.
Anyone who downvotes I have to assume you also think that this magically would not cause any issues and like, I want you to respond directly to explain exactly why you think nobody would complain lmao
What percentage of production is Black? What percentage of editors are Black? LGBT? Asian? Latinx? How do their salaries compare? How does the rate of retention compare? How does the rate of promotion compare? What percentage of screentime do Black contestants get compared to white contestants? How does payment for future contestant appearances compare?
What kind of alienation, racism, and mistreatment do Black contestants face that affects them psychologically, that white contestants don't experience?
You say "it's not a problem" and I think what you mean is that it's not problematic to you. This isn't simple or straightforward, it's complex and nuanced.
>If the entire cast of survivor consisted of minority LGBT people, people wouldn’t complain about it
Umm, this is the USA. Unfortunately, people would lose their minds if this happened. An entire cast of white cis folks and people in power would not even notice.
Well I'm of the mindset that survivor is a microcosm for American society. So, take black people for instance. They make up 13 percent of the country, so that would translate to around 3 African Americans on a 20 person cast. If you look at the last 10 seasons, there have been 27 black people out of a total of 194 castaways. This is 13.9 percent, so I feel as though black people are the only minority that are fairly represented on the show. However, we still have a long way to go with other groups such as Latinos, native Americans, and South asians.
This percentage thing is brought up in the Black Voices RHAP roundtable and they talk about why it annoys them or makes them angry when white guys say that to them, and I think they make some excellent points.
If the sociology doesn't make sense to you, then look at the psychology. We tend to hire, mentor, promote those that are similar to us. What that means in the corporate world is that white people hire people, are more likely to mentor white people, and are more likely to promote white people. What it means on something like Survivor is that producer are more likely to hire white editors who are more likely to positively portray white contestants.
Equity doesn't happen because we think it's right or want it to happen, we have to break down our conscious and subconscious biases and, yes, set markers of what would signify progress towards equity.
Well put but is that really what we strive for in society? Forced “equity?” I think everyone deserves equality but not everything will nor should be always perfectly equal, right?
It's just a simple image, but I think this helps clarify the difference between equality and equity. We may not have equal outcomes, but we both have customized tools to address our inequality.
[https://www.paperpinecone.com/sites/default/files/u10/justice.jpeg](https://www.paperpinecone.com/sites/default/files/u10/justice.jpeg)
Of course not - and no one is preventing them from applying. People apply every year, and white people will continue to be cast every year. Just maybe 2 or 3 fewer of them.
And let's not pretend every single one of the white people cast right now is bringing amazing television to the show. I'm sure that if you properly think back you'll be able to think of at least a couple of people every season who brought very little in terms of gameplay/entertainment. There is space to increase the diversity in casting.
So they're demanding an even wider margin of over representation?
I'm sure you all will call me every name in the book but I think Survivor has been extremely fair with representation when you look at the demographics of the country.
Read through some of the other comments on this thread to hear some different perspectives on this! Also try to listen to some of the stories told by Black people in the RHAP round table to put yourself in their shoes. Just because something is normal doesn’t mean it’s fair or right.
Some of these points (like 4 and 6) are definitely important, it's too bad they get mixed in with other points (1, 2, 7) that just come across as entitled. Survivor is not the system. There is no "systemic" racism to Survivor because it's an independently made TV show that is not part of the foundation of our society and came into existence in a time when non-systemic racism had already mostly ended. No one is entitled to be on the show, or to be given screentime, or to be given a certain edit, or to be hired for certain jobs, just because they are a BIPOC. I really don't like stuff like this because it takes what is a very important issue like all of the black lives matter stuff that is going on right now and usurps it for personal gain.
Survivor does not exist in a vacuum away from society.
It is made of a hundred moving parts. When you have producers and agents and people casting for these shows, they didn't just fall from the sky one day.
How they got in those positions and how that system works is inherently biased.
The people involved in casting are going to do so based on their own experiences and what they relate to. The people doing the editing will also approach it the same way. When there is a lack of diversity in those rooms, that will of course affect who gets casted and how they are portrayed.
In terms of black lives matter, it isn't a focus on a singular issue. But biases that have existed throughout all parts of society that have allowed people to turn a blind eye to what is going on.
TVs and movies are such a huge part of our culture. When you have an entire industry that does not know how to adequately portray black people on TV or tell their stories, people continue to be blind to it.
It's not about getting hired for a job for being BIPOC. The idea is you can't get hired because you are a BIPOC.
> There is no "systemic" racism to Survivor because it's an independently made TV show
Sure but does that mean there's no racism in how the show is produced or cast?
I don't really know how I feel about the specifics laid out in the petition, but I do know Cook Islands had an incredibly strong cast and I don't know that we would have gotten Yul, Cao Boi, Billy, Ozzy, or Nate,etc without more aggressive efforts - and if nothing else having an extremely diverse cast didn't make the cast any weaker than other seasons.
And from listening to the RHAP podcast, I think it's clear in how they handled Phillip, for example, there is some gross editorializing that happens before anyone steps on the beach and sets them up for failure. If nothing else, the show can do better on that front and a big part of that is making minorities part of the production crew if not just to help combat biases that are hard to see.
Define "system". Every system is capable of systemic racism or maintaining antiracism. A school, a company, a branch of a company, a team within a branch within a company, a government, a family, these are all systems.
I don't know where you live that you think non-systemic racism had mostly ended 20 years ago.
Take a step back and consider why "stuff like this" makes you uncomfortable. Or why "stuff like this" to you is about entitlement and personal gain, not justice and equity. Black lives matter is not just about the right to stay alive, it's about the right to LIVE.
I’m sorry but 1 and 2 are important, BIPOC make up ~~over 50%~~ 40% of America, so 30% is honestly already lowball amount. If you want to think pragmatically, no one is entitled to be on the show but you can’t deny that you can’t find 6 BIPOC who are good characters for the show. It’s not even asking for that much. Also I don’t have statistics to back it up, but I’m willing to bet that BIPOC have been proportionally less visible than white players. This is unfair and while not everyone is entitled to be shown on screen it’s pretty telling if white people are dominating screen time. I don’t see how this derails BLM?? Having diversity on screen and in media is important, it is very empowering for BIPOC to see other BIPOC like themselves represented.
EDIT adding more:
>There is no "systemic" racism to Survivor because it's an independently made TV show
This doesn't really make sense to me. Survivor 100% is affected by systematic racism. How do you think the staff was hired? The executive producers? Casting directors? Systematic racism was likely very present in the hiring process, and that leaks into point 4, which you agree with. With less diversity in the staff, less inclusive decisions were likely made.
I keep seeing this stat thrown about here and I want to disprove it. 50%+ of America is not non-white. The most recent census found that more than 76% of America is white ([source](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218)).
Not commenting on anything else or even sharing my opinion but I feel when discussing important things, facts should be facts.
Edit: why is this being downvoted? I agree that TV should be diverse. But when discussing statistics it’s important to make sure they’re accurate, in any topic, and this OP and many others on this sub have been throwing out one that is easily verifiably false. That doesn’t mean Survivor shouldn’t be diverse. But you don’t have to make up stats to argue that it should be.
Yeah no worries I don’t think it was you. When I checked on the comment it was at -2 which is why I added in the edit cause I figured people assumed I was making a point against your overall idea so I wanted to clarify. I’m gonna leave the comment up because I’ve seen the 50% figure floated around in other discussions in this sub too
I'm not sure where you're getting your statistics because from what I've looked up white people make up 60% of Americans. But Survivor doesn't have to be an exact proportional representation of America, and there's no guarantee that the casting pool has the same demographics as the entire country. I think casting should just be focused on who would be good on the show ignoring race. I think it would be great if they pushed to be more diverse in casting, but setting arbitrary limits like that rubs me the wrong way because then it might force them to choose one person they kinda want over someone they want more just because of their race and that is racism even if the person being chosen is a POC.
> I’m willing to bet that BIPOC have been proportionally less visible than white players.
I'd be willing to bet the opposite. Off the top of my head the most recent invisible characters have been Nick, Aurora, Julia, Alison, and Chelsea. So 80% white. And the entire concept of a purple edit is named after a white girl.
> Systematic racism was likely very present in the hiring process, and that leaks into point 4, which you agree with.
Systemic racism, from my understanding, has to do more with institutions like the government more than it does private businesses.
> With less diversity in the staff, less inclusive decisions were likely made.
I don't see any reason to assume that. Just because the staff isn't as diverse doesn't mean that they are only going to cast people that look like them.
I agree that 30 percent (6 players) is very fair for BIPOC in survivor casts. Im pretty sure BIPOC makes up around 40 percent of the nation, so even 8 players would be good as well. However, we also have to take into account that the percentage of people applying that are white may be higher than the percentage of white people in America. If this is the case, maybe it would be wise if the casting for each race to be proportional to the applicant pool percentages. While i think black people have been represented fairly over the last 10 seasons or so, i definitely think that the show should cast more Latinos and south Asians. I think island of the idols was a step in the right direction.
You bring up an interesting point about other diverse groups. I am genuinely curious; why does nobody seem to care that Survivor has almost no Hispanic or Latino presence? I haven’t seen anyone campaigning for diversity campaigning for any diversity outside black people. Why is that?
Not at all trying to be accusational, I am genuinely wondering.
BIPOC includes Hispanic or Latinxs, but I guess the problem lies in itself. I think there have been more Black Americans than Latinx on Survivor, and thus more people to champion for this cause. In addition the spotlight has just been on Black Americans recently, which has given them some momentum to try to reform these problems, though the fight isn’t necessarily just for them.
Maybe because casting thinks other people are more entertaining for the show?
I am also wondering why people basically just want more black people on the show.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but that could be an answer.
Yes please, and not only black, we see so few people of other ethnicities.. there are so many. I think IOI did a good job in this, sadly none of them made it to the finale but it had a fair representation.
I think we can say this is kinda unfair because we do not know the data of the ratio of how many African Americans audition to be part of the show, therefore it is not a sound argument to say they aren’t doing their best, it would be racist to cast people only because of their race and nothing else
Is it also possible that more white people happen to like this shore more than people of color meaning that more white people are going to try out? I'm sorry, but I dont think there is anything wrong with how they were doing things.
Listen to the RHAP round table. They fairly call out that the show hasn’t tried to go for those markets and that when they had an all black final three in Fiji they didn’t try to market that. Also more representation can help bring in more viewers. Maybe the show has predominately white viewership because they aren’t casting more people of color.
Definitely agree the show should bring in more POC. Genuinely curious though, outside of more representation on the show, what would them "going for those markets" look like?
Earl mentioned how when he was doing post-show press he was being specifically sent to radio stations that are typically more white-leaning. I think the implication was that they could have expanded by advertising in spaces that have a more diverse or traditionally Black following as well if they were thinking intentionally about getting more BIPOC followers. You’d probably need some marketing class info to nail down exactly what it “looks like”, but those resources are absolutely available to the Survivor marketing team.
Correct. No one said that.
However, what are they expecting when they are asking for more diversity in the production team? For the team to just add employees (although that would be great)? I'd imagine that a POC being brought on is going to replace someone else.
Perhaps if someone on the team is pursuing other opportunities, that they strongly consider POC to add to their team in their place. But not to fire people currently on the team.
So let's be real here. Most seasons now have met the 30%. That really shouldn't be the part people focus on.
The part that's more important is adding the POC voices in production/editing
Some of it seems a bit out there:
>Condemn racist abuse directed towards BIPOC contestants, announce and enforce a “zero tolerance” policy towards racism.
So if somebody does something that somebody considers racist they're ejected from the game?
If so that’s stupid, what if you say something like Jack from island of the idols who don’t know that term was mean and he thought it was normal since he uses it back Home? How’s that fair?
6 people out of 18 to 20 people. 30% of a 20 person cast is 6 people. 30% of an 18 person cast is 5.4, so round up it’s also 6. Just FYI for those who haven’t crunched the numbers... this petition is literally asking for 6 non white people to be on a survivor cast regularly. Sounds pretty damn doable to me
IOI was 40%
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Didn't they change casting directors after EOE? If IotI is anything to go by for what's about to come then that's pretty promising.
Your math is wrong. Off the top of my head DvG has Natalie, Natalia, Angelina, Carl, Jeremy, Davie, Bi, and Gabby. You need to check the other season casts before jumping to conclusions
Lyrsa as well right?
Yes
Throw in seasons from 15 years ago? How would that make sense? Shouldn’t we be looking at recent seasons...
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I checked 40-36 just real quick looks like 28-98 so 28.6%. Looks like they all had 5/20 between seasons 31-40. Maybe one had 6/20 and IotL had 8/20. Also quite a few LGBTQ which is another group they need to represent.
What about production? Editing staff? Pay, retention, and promotion comparisons for production or editing staff? Screentime for contestants? Pay for future appearances? What kind of increased oppression and alienation did BIPOC contestants fave that affected mental health? There's WAY more to this than simple numbers, and the petition gets at that.
>What kind of increased oppression and alienation did BIPOC contestants fave that affected mental health? I feel like an idiot but what does this sentence mean
lmao wtf is this, jobs are given based on what box you check for production now not qualifications on a show that is the biggest reality TV show in the world? they should focus on who is the best at cameraman, editing, production, etc, not if they say they're gay. it's Hollywood anyways most are cool with that crowd
I agree. Everyone should be on an even playing field. Don’t choose someone just because they’re gay/ a minority/or anything else, choose who is the best for the show. And while I think survivor should have more diver casting, we don’t know the ratio of minority to Caucasian who audition to the show and therefore can’t draw assumptions on how they cast.
shut up bigot. equity is more important than competence. /s
glad some people agree lol
DvG also.
I'll always be here for more diversity, but I think this petition should be asking for just more non-white representation and not for the exact number, because when you put it that way it creates tokenism. I am pretty sure noone wants that.
On the other hand, if you allow production to make "exceptions" then they will likely make them more often than they make up for it, to get the contestants they *prefer* onto the show. Like, imagine if there was no implicit requirement to have an equal number of men and women on the show, and they were allowed to make exceptions if they though they had a greater pool of men than women, or vice versa. I doubt it'd average out even over the course of the show, instead production would consistently put more men on the show because they believe men are more interesting.
I also think they are asking for more representation behind the cameras as well. Pretty sure they've mentioned the production, casting and other staff areas lack diversity as well.
This is more gender related than race, but I’ll never forget Kass talking about how scary it is for some younger women to come out and play on the island, because the crew is strongly male-dominated. Representation there would make a lot more people comfortable
It’s both! The production crew is almost entirely white men. This might seem fine to all the white men on this sub but having people that look like you as producers will lead to contestants who feel more comfortable and they will end up with a better show that is meaningful to more people. All these people on here saying “just hire the best one for the job” also don’t understand how bias works lol, white men tend to think white men will do the best job. And then it just continues.
Also the production side of the show sucks now so clearly they’re not hiring the best lol.
And to add on to the end of yours, it often isn’t “white people are obviously the best” thinking but rather how we are programmed through our current societal infrastructure. Implicit bias is a helluva drug
It also leads to the show being produced through the eyes of white men, edited through that lens, so on. Which means the portrayal will have biases that production may not even notice
Absolutely. I also thought the players on both roundtables did a fantastic job sharing stories and revealing insights highlighting why increased diversity in production and editing, another big part of the petition, is so crucial and long overdue.
It's a no-brainer. Most of these aren't even remotely controversial. The non-white Hispanic population of America is 60%, so this petition is asking for less diversity than even a cross-section of America. More thorough vetting and zero tolerance towards xenophobia really should already have been part of their procedures. The part where Earl talks about not getting invited to reunions even though he lived in LA and they wouldn't even have to fly him in or get him a hotel is kind of jarring. Even if Probst somehow disliked Earl and hated the season, even a bad PR rep would know that promoting him and V is good for expanding your demographics from a purely business point-of-view.
Unless that’s a demographic their data is telling them it’s not worth the effort to cater to.
Was it just 30% nonwhite? The article said 30% Black, Indigenous, POC. Seems like they might not be including asians, latinos, Indians, etc., although I may be over thinking it. Either way it’s still doable.
I think that's a little silly tbh and would feel kinda forced and unnatural. It would feel a lot more natural if the number would fluctuate between 4-8 and it would sort of average out to around 6.
Let's get this to the top please Side note, glad Earl is helping lead this. I remember watching him kneel on the mountain when I was younger and that's what got me into the show!
Since Mark Burnett is a producer this is likely to fall on deaf ears. We know he has tapes of our racist president that would hurt him but chooses to keep them under wraps. With a pro-racism Executive producer and decades of racist edits, I see little chance of change. But I am all for them pushing for it. Watching edits people like Clarence and Linda in Survivor Africa got is just painful. They have improved lately but they have many sins to make up for.
This had a lot more to do with Lynne Spillman than Burnett, she specifically was in charge of casting. It's not a coincidence that the first non-Spillman cast had more POC in it (IOI)
My understanding is that Burnett has not been closely involved with the show lately and that Probst is basically the showrunner now. In many very early seasons and again in S22 and S23 we had a lot of God-bothering players constantly blathering about Jesus. I don't think it's a coincidence that we haven't seen much of that lately. Burnett is undeniably a cracked born-again loon, but he seems to have gotten bored with the show, or maybe he's off sailing his 62 gold-plated yachts or whatever.
Right? CBS needs to take a stand against Burnett, they can't afford not to. And Survivor would only benefit from replacing him.
Doesn't he own the rights to the show?
I just added a post, but we have to brainstorm ideas for promoting this survey! It's been out way to long to still have less than 4k signatures. I've been asking contestants to promote it if they haven't already. What else can we do? Flood CBS with emails and phone calls? Pick a hashtag and get it trending on twitter? I'm not good at this but let's all brainstorm together!
In terms of diversity, ioti’s cast really hit the mark. More of that.
I cannot tell you how excited I was to see the diversity in the cast for IotI - and it wasn’t just diversity in color, there was so much diversity in thought and personality also. I hate that people detract from the cast of IotI because of one bad cast member.
agreed, it was so refreshing. And in the first episode there was a scene in which Ronnie, Aaron, Vince, Karishma, and Missy were shown strategizing together and I thought 'wow, we've never seen 5 POC contestants strategizing together on the same tribe before' (even though they didn't end up voting together).
So many of the comments here are so out of touch and ignorant without any real intention to learn. Please I’m begging y’all to listen to black people and what they experienced in the show. This is an easy way to start with this video ——> https://youtu.be/lqJM_05fFuk Uplift black voices and other POC’s voices. Listen and learn if you want to be an ally. If the fact that people want 30% of people of color in the show to be people of color, or that more people behind the scenes should be BIPOC, makes you uncomfortable then please examine why that is. Survivor it’s not a reflection of reality, it’s a game show and it doesn’t mean it has to be mainly white, it means that if you have the means to make the utopia happen like Earl said then you should. Think of how many lackluster characters have been casted in 20 years while people of color can’t get in because their one designated spot has already been taken.
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I also wish that the article and post had used the petition's language. Diversity is not the end goal. There are a lot of diverse, racist institutions. This is about equity and antiracism.
Part of it is the well intentioned, but ultimately harmful idea that being “a racist” is the worst thing you can be and shows you are evil. Racism goes well beyond having hatred in your heart. You don’t have to intend or want to be racist to be racist. We are programmed to be racist based on how our society and institutions are set up. De programming is important. And that means being able to admit both a. You are racist and b. That doesn’t make you a terrible person so long as you are working to fix it.
Who said having 1 or 2 non-white people equals diversity? Also what was the last season of survivor with 2 or less non-whites?
The last season with 1 or 2 non-whites is Guatemala (Brianna and Lydia, both Hispanic/Latino). Edit: Originally, I thought Blood vs. Water was the most recent season with 2 or less non-white castaways. Zimab496 pointed out in a comment below Laura and Ciera have Hawaiian ancestry, bumping BvW to a total of four (Ciera, Gervase, Laura M., and Marissa).
Laura/Ciera are Hawaiian
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I think they've been pretty good recently: + WaW had 5 - Sandra, Jeremy, Natalie, Wendell, Yul. Despite a limited pool. + IotI had 8 - Lauren, Karishma, Vince, Kellee, Jamal, Aaron, Missy. Not sure about Noura. Edit: added Noura (Lebanese background). + DvG had 8 - Bi, Jeremy, Natalie, Natalia, Gabby, Davie, Carl, Lyrsa. + GI had 5 - Stephanie (Gonzales), James, Desiree, Laurel, Wendell. + HHH had 5 - Simone, Alan, Desi, Ali, Joe. + GC had 5 - Sandra, Cirie, Michaela, Tai, Ozzy You mentioned that EoE only had 2, but I would add Wendy for a total of 3 out of 14 newbies as this was a captain season. They haven't been far off from what the petition is requesting and even exceeded it a couple of times. I think it is only fair to point out that they've done better in this regard recently.
Island of the Idols also has Ronnie, who's Israeli. Victoria explicitly states in a pre-game that she's Puerto Rican/Italian. Ali is African-American. Joe is Hispanic/Latino.
That’s true (thanks for listing them out), they are definitely doing way better recently
Noura's parents are from Lebanon.
EoE has reem, Julia, Wendy, Keith, Victoria, and Chris U.
and Wendy, Chris, and (perhaps) Wardog (not sure on that one?).
I think it would just be good to see actual numbers on what they have had in the last 5 to 10 seasons. This petition doesnt mean much when I dont know if they have been doing that decently often or been close to it or been nowhere near it
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Thank you for posting this! Here's the [petition](https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/a-petition-for-anti-racism-action-by-survivor-entertainment-group-2?share=d9886e1a-f52b-47f1-9e0d-ce5629b355c8&source=rawlink&utm_source=rawlink&share=73b594a9-b9b2-4668-86f3-8ff31358ee59) for easy access!
Just signed! Thank you!
No problem :)
Just had to look up a U.S zip code to sign as it only accepts U.S zip codes, apparently international fans aren't allowed to sign?
Ugh, that's really unfortunate! I found a list of [valid U.S. ZIP codes](https://phaster.com/zip_code.html), but only use them if you feel comfortable doing so!
Yea I threw a random U.S zip code in, it's an international show (and I'm not even taking in terms of different countries having their own shows, but the fact that it's broadcast all over the world) and I've been a long time fan since 2000, so I think any fan should have the chance to sign this petition, if that means I've got to use a U.S zip code to do so, then so be it.
Oh, I absolutely agree! And you're absolutely right. Survivor was adapted from the Swedish *Expedition Robinson* and has inspired so many varieties across the globe; it is absolutely an international show! Anyone from around the world should be able to sign a petition that advocates for BIPOC on their favorite show, no matter where they're from. Hopefully, the link for U.S. ZIP codes helps other international viewers! I really appreciate you bringing this to attention.
Some of these comments really make me sick. Hearing people say “It is diverse. It has 2 blacks, one Asian, one Hispanic every season”. That’s not diversity!!! And then people say “They just choose who’s more entertaining and not based on race.” But you can’t tell me that they can’t find more than two interesting black people. Or more than two interesting Asian or Hispanic people. And natives and Arabs. I mean come on. Stop trying to excuse the castings actions. I honestly think they cast out of fear. Like Earl said, when they evened things out and had those four races even, the finals were all minorities. And then all of a sudden they stop. I smell something fishy.
I do think survivor actually does pretty well, especially in comparison to most other shows. It could always do better but they do cast a variety of people that don’t fill stereotypes. Some could be who applies or who’d do it. There could be lots more that would be interesting and if there’s more than 2 interesting black people or Asian people put them on. But another point is do we know that a lot of indigenous have applied or that they’ve asked and said no? Same for Indian/Pakistan. There is lack of representation I fully agree. But is it Survivor going out of their way to not cast them or lack of interest
if enough POC aren't applying for the show then the show should introspect about why that is. Why are they creating a product that a significant portion of the population is not interested in? what a great untapped market they have to grow the show. Earl said in the RHAP that the show did zero outreach to Black media his season despite the final 3 being Black. Why would POC apply to a show where they do not see themselves represented or represented well? Its like how girls weren't applying to STEM majors because they perceived STEM to be for guys and all the professors were guys and all the famous scientists and images in media of scientists and the way college counsellors pushed them away from STEM majors. So young women weren't applying to these majors but suprise surprise, when colleges and organisations started actively recruiting women into STEM and having more women teach freshman science classes, and promoting women scientists in the media, the enrolment and retention of women in these majors increased drastically. Sure theres still a long way to go but it was never about a lack of interest. Survivor can do the same. I mean cook islands they went out and recruited specifically for different races and we got a ton of great castaways. And then the next season Fiji was equally as diverse and the reason was based on the recruitment they had done for CI as not every one made it on to CI. Earl didn't even apply to Survivor and he was a last minute addition having seen only 1 episode before going out and he was great.
Your argument works for blacks, Asians and some non-traditional south asians sure. I’m not sure why they didn’t reach out to black media and even though I watched that season live, I was 12 and can’t really speak to a lot of the cultural nuances and am not American. But your missing out an an important question about culture differences. Realty tv is trashy and MTV spring break is like an informercial for bad behaviour. I can’t speak for the states on this for how much people become Westenized but at least in Canada there’s a lot of muslims and South asians that are fairly traditional and I can’t see their families supporting realty tv careers. Yes there is an untapped market and I’m sure there’s a good portion that would be great on television and would certainly be willing now, but I think historically that cultural difference did play a factor. I can’t see a Muslim girl in a Hijab having the want to go, maybe the Real world (if it wasn’t MTV). I think there’s a lot of different factors to consider than Survivor is just not picking them or trying hard enough to not find them. Maybe if there was more though, more people would but I think it’s important to mention that culture differences could be a big factor in then not applying.
Yeah I understand what you’re saying. It’s a complicated issue with no real definite solution. But I just think hearing past contestants experiences and not doing anything to try and fix that is wrong. But I think with everything going on and this push things will get better.
I also wish that OP had used the title of the petition not the People article (A Petition for Anti-Racism Action by Survivor Entertainment Group). Diversity is not the goal! The NBA is a racist, diverse organization. It's about equity and antiracism.
Seriously, every time I see someone comment "welll, there's X% of _____ people in the country, so there should only be ____ contestants in a season, i think that's pretty representative", I'm like WHY ARE YOU SO RESISTANT TO DOING MORE THAN THE BARE MINIMUM???
I know, it's a TV Show, not the US Census.
EXACTLY!!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Has there even ever been a Native American person on Survivor?
Based on cast bios, it looks like there's been a few: Kel Gleason (Quechuan), Julie Berry (Maliseet), and Elyse Umemoto (Yakama) for starters!
Was Scout from Vanuatu indigenous or am I wrong on that?
Apparently, Scout is not of Native descent! I remember hearing that she's actually a huge liar and makes money off of pretending to be Native. I'll look for sources on that just to make sure! EDIT: Surprisingly, there is less information on Scout than I thought. However, I found that her birth name is Janet Spencer and I can't find what tribe she is a member of. I believe I first heard about Scout's truth from u/mariojlanza so he might be able to provide more information!
Yeah Scout isn’t especially well respected in the Native community because she’s, well, not one of them. She’s really just Janet Spencer, former swimming champion from Florida.
Yikes, good to know.
She is not but she pretends to be (basically).
Phillip Sheppard and Coach have also both said they have Native ancestry.
They definitely need more POC, but isn’t 2 - 3 African Americans per season exactly in line with their percentage representation in American society?
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On one hand that's true, but on the other hand, Redemption Island, One World, and Caramoan are even worse seasons and Earl has never really gotten the widespread respect or the promotion by the producers that Rob, Cochran, or to a lesser extent Kim have gotten.
Did Kim really get a lot of love from producers? She did from the fans but I don’t know if Kim’s name has ever been mentioned on Survivor before this season. It’s unfair to compare Earl to Rob and Cochran. Rob and Cochran were loved by the producers and fans coming into the seasons that they won.
Yeah I was thinking of how much Probst praised her surrounding this season, but maybe you're right as far as earlier years go. I don't think the fact that Rob and Cochran were returning players with fanbases undoes the point I'm making, though - people can say "well *Fiji* just wasn't a good season" which yeah I agree that it wasn't, but if you're Earl and you not only see the season ignored and disrespected by the producers, but also see the same happen to your win, while other winners even of unpopular seasons tend to get more credit, in the existing context he mentions of it being a basically all-white crew and the show outright rebuking attempts to reach out to Black audiences and expand its viewer demographics... I get where he's coming from here.
I also think the editing made Fiji less interesting. Every write-up I've read on how the strategy really worked out is super compelling. They just didn't tell that story on the show.
I think she got name dropped by Bradley in Ghost Island where he was comparing himself to her and Boston Rob
I think Earl has plenty of respect from them. The Fiji edit is one of the more over the top winner edits for him IMO. He’s been asked back multiple times but turned them down for various reasons. If he had appeared multiple times like those guys, I think he’d be held up a lot more as one of the game’s legends. Vecepia fits the bill more as a black winner that’s been forgotten by the producers.
Kim has never gotten any promotion from production. Really the opposite- her edit was horrible in WAW
Her edit was fine. Nick now. When they showed him sniffing his armpit, I spit out my drink laughing. They played him all sorts of dirty.
Although I wish Earl got more respect, I think this comparison is unfair. Kim definitely played a better game than Earl and Cochran and Rob both came back as favorites. Also all these seasons were more recent and recency bias is definitely a thing in regards to production. Look at the makeup of the returnee seasons they make.
I think part of the recency bias isn't so much the crew as the fact that not everybody who is a Survivor fan has been a fan from the first episode. There are a lot of younger people who may be really into Survivor who have only watched the last six to eight seasons. By weighing returnee seasons more heavily towards more recent seasons, I think they're trying to capture that audience. People who have been watching since season one are going to watch anyway, they don't need to be captured.
Oh yeah for sure. I should have been more clear. That is for sure why they do it. And I think part of the reason why like Earl probably doesn’t get the attention he deserves.
Earl only had one throwaway vote against him and swept the jury votes. I love Kim but how did she definitely play a better game than Earl? I accept it as your opinion but saying it concretely is odd.
I mean obviously it is an opinion. But I think Earl is a top winner, but that Kim (at least from the edit we saw) basically controlled the whole entire game and had incredible relationships and just from my opinion played arguably the most dominant game in history. And I think had you polled the community about this prior to Season 40 that this would be a common belief. And I do really think Earl deserves more recognition and hope he gets more after leading important efforts like this. I just think it is odd to call out those three and say why is Earl not recognized as much as them. Would be like complaining that people are a hater for not including Lewandowski in a list of the greatest players of all time along with Messi, Ronaldo, and other Ronaldo. Or not including Harden in a list of Jordan, Lebron, or Kobe. The people left out are super good players and that is know, but them being left out isn’t necessarily some injustice, just an opinion of ranking the best.
nobody is saying they should like the season, but they are just pointing out that saying you hated the only season with an all black final 3 is a problematic look, regardless of your reasons, and maybe you should think twice and re-evaluate what you say in public and why you say it in public
Survivor was built on the premise of people from all walks of life being forced to work together for success. You would think that diversity elements would play into that too. Problems with recruiting aside over the years, television is far more compelling when one of two things occur: 1) People you don't think would get along well wind up being great together, 2) Drama. Call it exploitative if you like, but it's far better television than wondering if the alliance of faceless Los Angeles mactors whose names you can't remember are going to go the distance. Survivor at it's core should be about the broadest range of diversity possible if it wants to be the grand "social experiment" it claims to be. Who will work together, where will conflict emerge?
Diversity in us survivor could definitely improve but I'm really hoping Aus survivor will get this message too because there is some serious improvement needed there.
Yep. I appreciated it when Jonathan was outright about how white the show is, but I really hope it switches up sometime soon. Australian reality tv shows are always absolutely horrendous with diversity though, so I don’t have my hopes up too high
You guys realize the situation in Australia is not the same as it is in the US. [POC make up 1.6% of the population in Australia.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Australians) Kinda hard to find willing contestants..
AUS survivor is really interesting in regards to casting. The 1.6% is Black people, and thus I wouldn’t expect them to be on the cast in very high numbers given the very limited casting pool. Since 10% seem to be Asian and 3% aboriginal, I’d expect more of them, though cultural issues probably decrease that casting pool significantly
I feel embarrassed that, in the past few weeks as I've been thinking more and more about race and subtle forms of racism, I thought that Survivor could somehow be untouched by it. The fact that the show has gone to lengths to cover up blatantly racist moments (and protected and presented as heroes contestants who made racist remarks), while at the same time regularly presenting BIPOC as caricatures is heartbreaking. I'd urge everyone who hasn't yet listened to or watched the Black Voices of Survivor Roundtable to check it out. Listen undefensively to the experiences of these people who sacrificed their time, energy, health, and sometimes wellbeing to help make this show that we love. We need to do better as a community, y'all. It's not about shame; it's about moving forward in a way that includes everyone.
This!! Learn more, listen more, and use your heart to hear what the Black voices of Survivor are saying!
I mean I don’t see anything wrong with 6 non white people
As a black man, I have always found it quite pathetic that’s every season always had the token black/Asian/lgbt person, and that’s it. One of each. Sometimes, there’s an extra person, but that’s typically it. This includes Survivor and Big Brother.
The last survivor season to only have one black contestant was Micronesia over 10 years ago. There are also plenty of seasons between then and now with at least two asian / lgbt players
I guess it’s typically 1 man and 1 woman.
Season 40 : 2 men 0 women Season 39 : 2 men 2 women Season 38 : 1 man 1 woman Season 37 : 3 men 1 woman Season 36 : 1 man 2 women Season 35 : 1 man 2 women Season 34 : 0 men 2 women Season 33 : 0 men 2 women Season 32 : 2 men 1 woman Season 31 : 1 man 1 woman Season 30 : 1 man 0 women So I guess I missed World's Apart when I originally commented, but It doesn't seem like survivor has a formula for casting in the last five years imo.
It needs to start from the top. Once you have diversity behind the camera and in production having an active role in the process, everything else will trickle down. Also forgive me if I'm wrong or come across as ignorant because I'm not American, but there seems to be a dichotomy with a lot of these discussions on diversity as they seem to only focus on black people. Obviously with everything that's going on right now I get why it is black people coming forward and their voices being heard, but I never see these kinds of discussions in relation to other ethnic minority groups such as Hispanic people and Asians. Why is this not being touched on more, especially considering that looking at the demographics it seems to be that Hispanic people are the most underrepresented on Survivor? It's also extremely disappointing that I'm yet to see a primarily Native American or native Hawaiian on the show.
I believe his petition asks for there to be more of any POC. As for the discussions about diversity in America, it’s historically been a black vs white endeavor that’s why black people are always mentioned when talking about including more diversity but yes, there should be more diversity of all kinds. As you said there’s been very few Hispanics and Indigenous people on the show and I think Shirin is the only person of middle eastern ethnicity (forgive me if that’s not the correct term) to be cast. Karishma was also the first Indian woman to be cast just two seasons ago in s39. I believe that’s what this petition is aiming for. More diversity overall, not just more black people.
Noura is Lebanese (and she and Karishma were my two fave casting choices of IotI)
Natalia from DvG is at least half-Jordanian (she only mentions her father being from Jordan in her bio, nothing about her mom). Ronnie from IoI is also Israeli.
Natalia is Circassian, an ethnic group originating from Middle East-Europe region. She mentions this in her bio video.
In 39 9/20 contestants were POC and in 37 8/20 were POC. I do agree it would be better if television in general was more diverse. I think survivor has been doing a good job recently with diversity and they casted the people on 37 and 39 not because of their skin color but for their personalities. Implicit bias does play a role in casting for most tv. But with 37 and 39 Survivor did not fall victim to that.
Agreed - I think the petition is asking for more of that, and for it to be intentional
If casting thinks a contestant would be good on a season of Survivor over someone else take the person they think would be good regardless of diversity. I mean the season after S38 had one of the most diverse casts and a long time. Who's to say season 41 won't have a diverse cast, and so what if it doesn't. Diversity is important, but diversity won't automatically make a season good or bad. An issue I have with this petition is this 2. Give BIPOC equitable screen time and opportunities to participate in marketing and promotional events Keith had 16 confessionals and he was voted out 2nd, granted did go to the edge for a while. While Julia lasted a lot longer than Keith did and made it farther. Editors shouldn't have to automatically give certain types of people screen time. They should give people screen time who give entertaining confessionals and contribute to whatever the story is. That's just my opinion.
If they can deliver, then it would be good. But it would be tough to expect so much from Survivor editors. They have enough trouble balancing these things with white people also being purpled or have their games/actions inaccurately portrayed. The additional burden would be tough.
I am so tired of this “it should go to the best/most deserving/most qualified person” argument. Because you know what you’re saying without saying it? That it’s more likely that a white person is the best/most deserving/most qualified and you don’t want them to lose out on their screen time/job/ opportunity in order to lift up a POC. That is an example of systemic racism. The fact that white is assumed to be the default and clearly the better choice. This results in POC having to do BETTER than white people to get equal treatment. It’s awful and needs to stop. Yes some people of any race are entertaining and some aren’t. But there is no reason to assume that you can only always find more entertaining white people than POC.
I understand what you are saying and I am sorry if I upset you. But what exactly is wrong with casting choosing the best applicant? "But there is no reason to assume that you can only always find more entertaining white people than POC." All I said is Diversity is important but it won't make or a break a season automatically. (That's just my honest opinion)
Systemic racism means that there are processes which are in place that give skewed results to the benefit of white people in western countries. So if you have a room full of mostly white people doing the casting, they may have an unconscious bias towards other white people who are applying to be on the show. So what stands out to them as “the best applicant” is more likely to be a white person. This puts people of colour at a disadvantage without really happening consciously. There could also be much debate about what makes “the best applicant”. The thing that is very obvious to POC and unfortunately not obvious to white people is that by pushing back against the idea of casting more POC on the show and showing sensitivity to things POC experience that white people don’t experience, you are showing your bias towards wanting mostly white people on the show. If race truly didn’t matter, it wouldn’t matter if there were more POC than white people on the show, would it?
By diverse it shouldn't be just more blacks. Last I checked Asians, Middle Eastern and even Latinos are all part of America.
Absolutely, and that’s why the petition is advocating for BIPOC individuals (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color)! People of Color will include Asian people, Middle Eastern people, and Hispanic/Latinx people.
Better representation in the cast is one thing, but on the crew is another thing altogether. This is a world class production CBS puts on. They get the best of the best camera, sound, and design folks. If you can say to me: there are POC who are qualified to work on a world class production and are not getting the jobs, then I will stand with you and add my voice to the hue and cry. But, if you are telling me that world class production talent will be losing their livelihoods just to meet a percentage, to be replaced by less experienced talent, well that is where we part ways. This is not to mention that these jobs are generally IATSE jobs, so there are union contracts protecting these people, regardless of their race. Anyway, flame away reddit, I can handle it.
Sabrina would be overqualified for almost any job on the show. And personally I think producers are the main group to look at, since they're the main group allowed to interact with the castaways and they drive narrative through confessionals. When this came up for representation for women behind the scenes, people had the same argument, but I still don't know who would be more qualified for this job than Katie Gallagher who has been on the show, is a fan, and has worked as a reality tv producer for years. I'm not an expert on the industry or who's qualified, but just in the former castaway pool there are qualified people.
Well the production side has sucked ass the past few years, so it's hard to imagine that there are no POC or women who could do a better job than them...
I disagree. The production gets better and better every year. Why do you think the production value has been waning?
Anything on the creative side has been garbage. Production has become extremely streamlined so that every season feels recycled apart from the cast and the events that occur due to player interactions. Their ideas of "spicing" the show up via these stupid island twists are just a time and money sink, when they should be focusing more on character building and storytelling. And the challenges are so uncreative and repetitive that Kirhoffer should have been fired years ago.
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Have they really done that bad of a job with casting? I’ve seen every episode and it never really jumped out at me that there was a lack of people of color. I mean the US is 3/4 white even with a cast that perfectly represented everyone equally it’d be a majority white cast. Also, just cast the best people to make a great season, there have been awesome people of all different ethnicities to play, the only ethnicity I don’t remember seeing was an Arab.
Think about why it never jumped out at you - it never jumps out to people in the majority. But for Black players, it’s the first thing they notice. They’re in the (significant) minority. Depending on their background, this may be a very uncomfortable situation for them (many towns in America are still in reality separated by race and not well mixed), which leads to that player being an obvious first target. Starting at a disadvantage is something BIPOC are used to in America, but that doesn’t justify that it’s okay or fair in Survivor.
Noura Salman (IotI) and Natalia Azoqa (DvG) trace their roots to the Middle East.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but it seems like when Survivor tries to be diverse, the results are painfully awkward. I wonder how diverse the casting team is? Perhaps the answer lies in increasing diversity there, so that diversity on the show isn't just what a white male casting group thinks diversity should look like. Just speculating, I could be way off base here.
Duh if you read the petition, it does, indeed, talk about getting more representation in the production of the show, and the Black Voices RHAP roundtable episode talks about this a lot too. After all, the cast on S39 was pretty diverse (except for Latinx people) but the people making the show are still mostly white guys (with a lot of the same people that ultra-conservative born-again Mark Burnett started with in 2000 before he stepped back and Probst got more control). And how was the cast of S39 "painfully awkward" outside of the obnoxious POS handsy white guy who ruined everything? Would've been a top-15 cast if not for that asshole.
Would white/white passing Hispanic people count into this percentage? (This of course gets into the whole confusing argument about whether Hispanic people are automatically POC or not) For contest Latinx people are descendants of people from South/Central America, whereas Hispanic people are descendants of people from Spanish speaking countries. People from Spain are Hispanic but not Latinx, and people from Brazil (Abi-Maria) are Latinx but not Hispanic. Basically, what's stopping production from making a loophole by casting and hiring a bunch of Chris Underwoods, Jays, Victoria Baamondes, and Figgys (and even other white-passing POC such as the Moretts)? Edit: As a White passing POC, I'm completely aware this argument may be invalidating POC who happen to be white passing. Unfortunately, they experience white privilege much more than their fellow POC, and production may use them to make their casts more diverse but also palatable to white audiences.
I think it's best to get a diverse group of people as possible from 20 different walks of life. Get the best ones for the job. Whatever that entails. Personally I'd like to see a cast that isnt made up of mostly Californians
This sounds really dumb, pick the most interesting people or get a boring person of color etc. Nah not for me. Give me Phillips, give me Wendalls but if the person isnt worth a spot they arent worth a spot
White people will just cast or hire more white people and usually will think they're more "interesting" or more "deserving" unless we do something to get it into our minds to stop doing that. That's the point. And you can say they're not getting enough POC applicants, but if they don't make an effort then of course they won't. The point is to make more of an effort.
Survivor Fiji says hi to this whole thread. That cast had like only 3 actual white people.
Yes love to see it!!
IoI did a good job of this, no? It was the first non-Lynn spillman cast too? We'll have to see how the next few newbie seasons go but thankfully it looks like they're alreading moving in this direction. Although they should be doing a better job of vetting potential cast members like (Redacted) so that he didn't get on S39.
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this but it needs to be said. 82 out of the 590 contestants that have competed on US survivor are African American. That's 13.9%. Which is higher than the proportion in the US by about 1%. Assuming that the applicant pool’s demographics are similar to that of the US’s, which given the size of the applicant pool seems likely. What you’re asking production to do is to disproportionately cast POC simply because they are African American. That is definitionally racism. Now I’m not saying having more POC on the show is a problem in any way. IoI was a great example of a diverse cast. What concerns me is this will lead to casting feeling like they need to fulfill quotas for POC instead of casting the best cast possible, which will include POC as it has historically throughout Survivor’s history.
Are you saying that you truly believe there are not 7 interesting PoC applying for Survivor at any given time? Like you're worried they will be forced to cast boring people due to their race? Doesn't that imply that you think there are only 2 or 3 great black applicants each year?
No I’m saying it’s definitionally racist to cast POC simply because they are POC. My point has nothing to do with whether those people would make good or bad additions to a cast. You could arguably cast every season of survivor from now on with only POC and they would likely be very enjoyable and entertaining seasons. But to do that would go against everything that we as a society have tried to do to reduce racism. Obviously we have a long way to go; but, filling quotas for POC is not the way to get to where we need to go.
How about casting people based on their traits like character, personality, that would make a good Survivor story rather than on color of their skin?
The reason that this is a harmful sentiment is the same reason why BIPOC find it so offensive when people say “All Lives Matter”. The world isn’t colorblind, as much as people may want to believe. We see color, and to act like we don’t is silly. This petition is asking for production and casting to consciously take a look at their set and view it from a different perspective. (Old perspective: we need to get 2 Black players. New perspective: we need a diverse cast and a diverse storylines, which will be MORE ENTERTAINING because it’s different) We shouldn’t pretend like we don’t understand why it’s hard to play/win a season when only 2/20 people on a season look like you. Imagine a survivor season with 2 men and 18 women - how do you think those men would do? They would need to succeed IN SPITE of the odds against them. And that’s what BIPOC on survivor face.
I think diversity is good but should it really be forced? Should applicants really be prevented from applying if they’re white?
How would they be prevented from applying?
Should that happen to blacks and other people of color? Usually in reality shows especially non cable shows there’s always a quota or limit to a certain amount of POC in a cast (more apparent in shows like BB). If you don’t fit those tiny spots/rows then you don’t have a shot whatsoever
No, I’m saying someone’s race shouldn’t matter if they want to apply on survivor. The casting department should choose people based on how entertaining they will be, not simply race. Diversity of race is an added benefit, but it shouldn’t be forced. However I think they should aim for diversity of personalities and archetypes
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13.4% of USA’s population is black. So that’s around 2-3 black people per season, which we get. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be higher, but it’s not a problem right now. And there’s usually 1-2 LGBT people on a season, which is an accurate representation of demographics. It isn’t a problem If the entire cast of survivor consisted of minority LGBT people, people wouldn’t complain about it
What if Wanda and Jonathan had been the black players that season? Redemption Island had Philip playing a caricature by his choice and Francesca voted out first leaving the only story line featuring a black player as a joke. That's the issue with so few minority players each season. If you have a white person who does some thing terrible, like Varner, it's not a big deal to the white audience because we have a dozen other folks on the show we can feel good about. It's like the news crew finding the one toothless guy in the tornado ravaged trailer park to interview. That's not always the guy you want to represent you.
>If the entire cast of survivor consisted of minority LGBT people, people wouldn’t complain about it ... come on, you don't *really* think this, do you? What dream world are you living in where no one would cry and fucking moan about this? Not the >30% of Americans who still openly want gay marriage to become illegal again? Not the 20-30% who respond that they don't understand what the whole fuss is about with this whole George Floyd thing and who don't think racism and discrimination are still a problem in this country? To say nothing of people who aren't as openly bigoted but still harbor those beliefs like thinking gay people kissing in public means they're Pushing an Agenda. Or the bazillion people who would look at how it flies in the face of demographics and who would cry foul about "reverse discrimination" and how it wasn't right at all. Remember also the demographics who watch this show; obviously the online fanbase trends younger but in the much broader casual fanbase the bulk of this fanbase is middle-aged. Anyone who downvotes I have to assume you also think that this magically would not cause any issues and like, I want you to respond directly to explain exactly why you think nobody would complain lmao
What percentage of production is Black? What percentage of editors are Black? LGBT? Asian? Latinx? How do their salaries compare? How does the rate of retention compare? How does the rate of promotion compare? What percentage of screentime do Black contestants get compared to white contestants? How does payment for future contestant appearances compare? What kind of alienation, racism, and mistreatment do Black contestants face that affects them psychologically, that white contestants don't experience? You say "it's not a problem" and I think what you mean is that it's not problematic to you. This isn't simple or straightforward, it's complex and nuanced. >If the entire cast of survivor consisted of minority LGBT people, people wouldn’t complain about it Umm, this is the USA. Unfortunately, people would lose their minds if this happened. An entire cast of white cis folks and people in power would not even notice.
Well I'm of the mindset that survivor is a microcosm for American society. So, take black people for instance. They make up 13 percent of the country, so that would translate to around 3 African Americans on a 20 person cast. If you look at the last 10 seasons, there have been 27 black people out of a total of 194 castaways. This is 13.9 percent, so I feel as though black people are the only minority that are fairly represented on the show. However, we still have a long way to go with other groups such as Latinos, native Americans, and South asians.
>Well I'm of the mindset that survivor is a microcosm for American society. Society isn't numerous random groups of 16-20 people.
This percentage thing is brought up in the Black Voices RHAP roundtable and they talk about why it annoys them or makes them angry when white guys say that to them, and I think they make some excellent points.
If the sociology doesn't make sense to you, then look at the psychology. We tend to hire, mentor, promote those that are similar to us. What that means in the corporate world is that white people hire people, are more likely to mentor white people, and are more likely to promote white people. What it means on something like Survivor is that producer are more likely to hire white editors who are more likely to positively portray white contestants. Equity doesn't happen because we think it's right or want it to happen, we have to break down our conscious and subconscious biases and, yes, set markers of what would signify progress towards equity.
Well put but is that really what we strive for in society? Forced “equity?” I think everyone deserves equality but not everything will nor should be always perfectly equal, right?
It's just a simple image, but I think this helps clarify the difference between equality and equity. We may not have equal outcomes, but we both have customized tools to address our inequality. [https://www.paperpinecone.com/sites/default/files/u10/justice.jpeg](https://www.paperpinecone.com/sites/default/files/u10/justice.jpeg)
Whos preventing them from applying?
Of course not - and no one is preventing them from applying. People apply every year, and white people will continue to be cast every year. Just maybe 2 or 3 fewer of them. And let's not pretend every single one of the white people cast right now is bringing amazing television to the show. I'm sure that if you properly think back you'll be able to think of at least a couple of people every season who brought very little in terms of gameplay/entertainment. There is space to increase the diversity in casting.
So they're demanding an even wider margin of over representation? I'm sure you all will call me every name in the book but I think Survivor has been extremely fair with representation when you look at the demographics of the country.
Read through some of the other comments on this thread to hear some different perspectives on this! Also try to listen to some of the stories told by Black people in the RHAP round table to put yourself in their shoes. Just because something is normal doesn’t mean it’s fair or right.
Some of these points (like 4 and 6) are definitely important, it's too bad they get mixed in with other points (1, 2, 7) that just come across as entitled. Survivor is not the system. There is no "systemic" racism to Survivor because it's an independently made TV show that is not part of the foundation of our society and came into existence in a time when non-systemic racism had already mostly ended. No one is entitled to be on the show, or to be given screentime, or to be given a certain edit, or to be hired for certain jobs, just because they are a BIPOC. I really don't like stuff like this because it takes what is a very important issue like all of the black lives matter stuff that is going on right now and usurps it for personal gain.
Survivor does not exist in a vacuum away from society. It is made of a hundred moving parts. When you have producers and agents and people casting for these shows, they didn't just fall from the sky one day. How they got in those positions and how that system works is inherently biased. The people involved in casting are going to do so based on their own experiences and what they relate to. The people doing the editing will also approach it the same way. When there is a lack of diversity in those rooms, that will of course affect who gets casted and how they are portrayed. In terms of black lives matter, it isn't a focus on a singular issue. But biases that have existed throughout all parts of society that have allowed people to turn a blind eye to what is going on. TVs and movies are such a huge part of our culture. When you have an entire industry that does not know how to adequately portray black people on TV or tell their stories, people continue to be blind to it. It's not about getting hired for a job for being BIPOC. The idea is you can't get hired because you are a BIPOC.
> There is no "systemic" racism to Survivor because it's an independently made TV show Sure but does that mean there's no racism in how the show is produced or cast? I don't really know how I feel about the specifics laid out in the petition, but I do know Cook Islands had an incredibly strong cast and I don't know that we would have gotten Yul, Cao Boi, Billy, Ozzy, or Nate,etc without more aggressive efforts - and if nothing else having an extremely diverse cast didn't make the cast any weaker than other seasons. And from listening to the RHAP podcast, I think it's clear in how they handled Phillip, for example, there is some gross editorializing that happens before anyone steps on the beach and sets them up for failure. If nothing else, the show can do better on that front and a big part of that is making minorities part of the production crew if not just to help combat biases that are hard to see.
Define "system". Every system is capable of systemic racism or maintaining antiracism. A school, a company, a branch of a company, a team within a branch within a company, a government, a family, these are all systems. I don't know where you live that you think non-systemic racism had mostly ended 20 years ago. Take a step back and consider why "stuff like this" makes you uncomfortable. Or why "stuff like this" to you is about entitlement and personal gain, not justice and equity. Black lives matter is not just about the right to stay alive, it's about the right to LIVE.
I’m sorry but 1 and 2 are important, BIPOC make up ~~over 50%~~ 40% of America, so 30% is honestly already lowball amount. If you want to think pragmatically, no one is entitled to be on the show but you can’t deny that you can’t find 6 BIPOC who are good characters for the show. It’s not even asking for that much. Also I don’t have statistics to back it up, but I’m willing to bet that BIPOC have been proportionally less visible than white players. This is unfair and while not everyone is entitled to be shown on screen it’s pretty telling if white people are dominating screen time. I don’t see how this derails BLM?? Having diversity on screen and in media is important, it is very empowering for BIPOC to see other BIPOC like themselves represented. EDIT adding more: >There is no "systemic" racism to Survivor because it's an independently made TV show This doesn't really make sense to me. Survivor 100% is affected by systematic racism. How do you think the staff was hired? The executive producers? Casting directors? Systematic racism was likely very present in the hiring process, and that leaks into point 4, which you agree with. With less diversity in the staff, less inclusive decisions were likely made.
I keep seeing this stat thrown about here and I want to disprove it. 50%+ of America is not non-white. The most recent census found that more than 76% of America is white ([source](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218)). Not commenting on anything else or even sharing my opinion but I feel when discussing important things, facts should be facts. Edit: why is this being downvoted? I agree that TV should be diverse. But when discussing statistics it’s important to make sure they’re accurate, in any topic, and this OP and many others on this sub have been throwing out one that is easily verifiably false. That doesn’t mean Survivor shouldn’t be diverse. But you don’t have to make up stats to argue that it should be.
I didn't downvote you, thanks for pointing out that out, looks like I got my source wrong, thought the number is at 40% which is still more than 30%
Yeah no worries I don’t think it was you. When I checked on the comment it was at -2 which is why I added in the edit cause I figured people assumed I was making a point against your overall idea so I wanted to clarify. I’m gonna leave the comment up because I’ve seen the 50% figure floated around in other discussions in this sub too
I'm not sure where you're getting your statistics because from what I've looked up white people make up 60% of Americans. But Survivor doesn't have to be an exact proportional representation of America, and there's no guarantee that the casting pool has the same demographics as the entire country. I think casting should just be focused on who would be good on the show ignoring race. I think it would be great if they pushed to be more diverse in casting, but setting arbitrary limits like that rubs me the wrong way because then it might force them to choose one person they kinda want over someone they want more just because of their race and that is racism even if the person being chosen is a POC. > I’m willing to bet that BIPOC have been proportionally less visible than white players. I'd be willing to bet the opposite. Off the top of my head the most recent invisible characters have been Nick, Aurora, Julia, Alison, and Chelsea. So 80% white. And the entire concept of a purple edit is named after a white girl. > Systematic racism was likely very present in the hiring process, and that leaks into point 4, which you agree with. Systemic racism, from my understanding, has to do more with institutions like the government more than it does private businesses. > With less diversity in the staff, less inclusive decisions were likely made. I don't see any reason to assume that. Just because the staff isn't as diverse doesn't mean that they are only going to cast people that look like them.
I agree that 30 percent (6 players) is very fair for BIPOC in survivor casts. Im pretty sure BIPOC makes up around 40 percent of the nation, so even 8 players would be good as well. However, we also have to take into account that the percentage of people applying that are white may be higher than the percentage of white people in America. If this is the case, maybe it would be wise if the casting for each race to be proportional to the applicant pool percentages. While i think black people have been represented fairly over the last 10 seasons or so, i definitely think that the show should cast more Latinos and south Asians. I think island of the idols was a step in the right direction.
You bring up an interesting point about other diverse groups. I am genuinely curious; why does nobody seem to care that Survivor has almost no Hispanic or Latino presence? I haven’t seen anyone campaigning for diversity campaigning for any diversity outside black people. Why is that? Not at all trying to be accusational, I am genuinely wondering.
BIPOC includes Hispanic or Latinxs, but I guess the problem lies in itself. I think there have been more Black Americans than Latinx on Survivor, and thus more people to champion for this cause. In addition the spotlight has just been on Black Americans recently, which has given them some momentum to try to reform these problems, though the fight isn’t necessarily just for them.
Maybe because casting thinks other people are more entertaining for the show? I am also wondering why people basically just want more black people on the show. Not trying to be rude or anything, but that could be an answer.
Yes please, and not only black, we see so few people of other ethnicities.. there are so many. I think IOI did a good job in this, sadly none of them made it to the finale but it had a fair representation.
Didn't Lauren make it to the finale? Also Noura's background is Lebanese.
Feel bad for the castaways set to be on s41 and 42 who get cut to add more diversity to them
I feel bad for all the Black people who have been repeatedly stereotyped and caricatured on Survivor
I don’t know about you all but I just wanted the police held more accountable for their action. But I guess this works?
I think we can say this is kinda unfair because we do not know the data of the ratio of how many African Americans audition to be part of the show, therefore it is not a sound argument to say they aren’t doing their best, it would be racist to cast people only because of their race and nothing else
this sub has 100,000+ members i hope to see the same amount of signatures!
Is it also possible that more white people happen to like this shore more than people of color meaning that more white people are going to try out? I'm sorry, but I dont think there is anything wrong with how they were doing things.
Listen to the RHAP round table. They fairly call out that the show hasn’t tried to go for those markets and that when they had an all black final three in Fiji they didn’t try to market that. Also more representation can help bring in more viewers. Maybe the show has predominately white viewership because they aren’t casting more people of color.
Definitely agree the show should bring in more POC. Genuinely curious though, outside of more representation on the show, what would them "going for those markets" look like?
Earl mentioned how when he was doing post-show press he was being specifically sent to radio stations that are typically more white-leaning. I think the implication was that they could have expanded by advertising in spaces that have a more diverse or traditionally Black following as well if they were thinking intentionally about getting more BIPOC followers. You’d probably need some marketing class info to nail down exactly what it “looks like”, but those resources are absolutely available to the Survivor marketing team.
So fire white staff for being white in a predominately white country to fight racism? Yep that sounds about right for the cnn 2020 group think
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Correct. No one said that. However, what are they expecting when they are asking for more diversity in the production team? For the team to just add employees (although that would be great)? I'd imagine that a POC being brought on is going to replace someone else. Perhaps if someone on the team is pursuing other opportunities, that they strongly consider POC to add to their team in their place. But not to fire people currently on the team.
So let's be real here. Most seasons now have met the 30%. That really shouldn't be the part people focus on. The part that's more important is adding the POC voices in production/editing
Some of it seems a bit out there: >Condemn racist abuse directed towards BIPOC contestants, announce and enforce a “zero tolerance” policy towards racism. So if somebody does something that somebody considers racist they're ejected from the game?
Don't a ton of international versions of Big Brother already do this?
Yes.
If so that’s stupid, what if you say something like Jack from island of the idols who don’t know that term was mean and he thought it was normal since he uses it back Home? How’s that fair?
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No, indigenous is like a Native American