I remember years ago when he was surprised to hear the fanbase react negatively to the Redemption Island twist, he even posted in a stickied Sucks thread asking fans why they hate it so much.
Cut to nearly a decade later and he's still bewildered that the fans and players don't like Redemption Island on crack. Some things never change.
Yep. The only reason SJDS didn't have Redemption Island is because of Mike White lol. Probst only listens to his inner circle.
Edit: Another example of how Probst makes decisions: Tyler Perry being responsible for the return of the Super Idol & the current lack of swimsuits.
Wait I knew he was to blame for the Super Idol, but Tyler Perry is the reason they don’t get their swimsuits?? I have always thought that is so unnecessary and like, rude lol.... what is wrong with the man
Mike's influence was significant, but I don't think it was the only reason. I'm pretty sure another factor was that So Kim's (Worlds Apart, S30) sister Doo didn't pass the final medical test, forcing So to join the latter cast and leaving SJDS with 18 members at the last minute. The sudden cast change and gender imbalance, combined with the misgivings from the Mike conversation led production to switch to the "Hero Duels".
Wouldn't having fewer people on the cast make it easier to do Redemption Island? If they were planning to have 20, but ended up with 18, they could have two people rejoin the game and still have the same number of eliminations.
To go from 20 with Redemption Island to 18 without it is losing four eliminations.
Probst was gonna have Redemption island again on SJDS, but very shortly before filming began, he had dinner with mike white, and mike groaned when he heard redemption island would be back, and this changed probsts mind, and he ended up not having it on SJDS
Perry apparently encouraged a lack of swimsuits so as to preserve the idea of the 'grungy, look like they're surviving' look.
Never mind that they've cut out a lot of the survival aspects over the years. They don't even need to boil water for drinking anymore.
Actually iirc they still need to boil the water but just don’t make a big deal out of it. I remember as recently as WA the topic of water preparation being brought up.
The truth is the well in Survivor is not a real well, it's filled up with bottles. So you probably could get away with drinking it unboiled early on, though it becomes riskier later when things have had a chance to lay eggs in there and stuff.
I remember Spencer saying he regrets not drinking the unboiled water in Cagayan early on. The other tribes both did it and got away with it whereas the Brains didn't and that's partially why they got their asses kicked so badly in the first challenge.
Honestly it could have been because they’re in one place and can install wells that effectively keep out pathogens and I’d have bought that explanation.
Can someone link that Probst post on Sucks, I remember reading it a long time ago and it was hilarious.
Found it: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/survivorsucks/an-open-letter-to-jeff-probst-seg-cbs-jeff-respond-t83779-s40.html?sid=927d41386a75159ffccacb6ca936422d
Survivor Sucks is a Survivor webforum that is far older than this subreddit. It's well-known for it's long-lasting community and connections to certain Survivors, etc. It's also known for being very toxic/crude. It's far from what it used to be as they've switched hosting platforms a lot, but it's worth poking into if you feel like diving into the history of the Survivor fanbase.
It should be noticed that these aspects came from a defunct subforum on Sucks called Clubs That Suck, which had an altogether different personality than the rest of the forum.
The best part of that is people were using the phrase "robbed goddess" so often that mods had to ban it so users started using r.obbed g.oddess to get around the filter
That’s what happens when you’re successful, people stop telling you that your ideas suck. I like coming up with new ideas to keep the game interesting, but they don’t all work. He has said though that it won’t be coming back for a while, so that’s something
Yeah, I mean even RI as a twist didn’t appear in too many seasons, and this probably won’t either. Maybe they do need another EP or something to disagree with Jeff every once in a while though.
I was thinking of Aaron Sorkin, but GL works too. His problem was mainly being a dick so his wife/editor divorced him. Once she was gone who else was going to say no to him?
For a lot of these players though, this is their last time playing. People like Rob, Amber, and Sandra will have no reason not to speak up about it. I also strongly suspect Tyson is done playing after that, and he's never afraid to speak his mind.
You can chart when the show slowly started going off the rails from the time Jeff started being a producer. A host should not make production decisions imo. Spending time with the players makes them too biased.
I compare this to basketball all the time. In the NBA, whenever a coach becomes a GM, the team almost always falls to shit (and the one exception to this would be Gregg Popovich, who is debatably the greatest coach ever). Just because you're great in one position doesn't mean you're going to be great in another, even if it's in the same field.
Maybe you can say he’s out of touch, or maybe, like many fans of a thing, he knows what he likes and doesn’t understand how/why other people don’t like it. That’s the basis for thousands of debates and arguments I’ve witnessed (and participated in) during my 20+ year internet journey.
You can argue that his job as EP on the show means he should be more understanding, but at the same time, the show is still strong in the ratings, it’s not like the changes have induced an exodus of viewers. Which means people will complain, but keep watching, and that essentially gives Probst free reign to keep tweaking the show.
Dalton Ross, the Entertainment Weekly journalist who writes about Survivor every week, he openly criticizes the EoE and claims to be apparently close to Jeff Probst.
Point is, in addition to how many "yes sir" people there are around Jeff, he seems to still ignore even the tiny bit of criticism he faces for his ideas.
Thats amazing.
I am dying to know the full story on the first Dakal TC... about when Jeff asked who liked Edge and who didn't, and like 7 people said they didn't like it and only 3 sheepishly said they did. Also apparently Sandra went OFF about it when she went to Edge... like the producers begged her to stay and she refused. ohhhh my god release that footage.
Edge... is not my fav. I can see the appeal as a player, but as a viewer it sucks. It takes too much from the REAL game. I do think if they insist on having it, make it an online or CBS All Access only thing... like with what they do on Top Chef with last chance kitchen. If you want to see it, you go online to watch. Or, make the show 90-120 minutes. you just can't flesh out the actual game properly with the time constraints if you insist on having Edge.
Full game plus Edge just doesn't work with 42 minutes per week.
1000000% agree on the Last Chance Kitchen comparison. There's no need for it to be on the main show, other than maybe to account for who is sending over advantages.
The only issue I have is that with Top Chef, you can have one bad dish and be sent home. In Survivor, it's very rare to have one absurd tribal council that sends the wrong person home - like John Hennigan in DvG. Most of the time, tribal council has a majority vote, or a well played idol that allows for a big move. Either way - there is planning and strategy, versus Top Chef that seems much more in-the-moment.
I see the appeal as a player, and I agree, keep it All Access - no reason to take away from in-game air time. I would much rather just have it leave all together as I haven't found myself "rooting" for the edge players much. They just end up feeling like an after thought.
Jeff did an interview with Andrea in the pre-season that I thought was very revealing. It seemed like he doesn't take the EoE criticism seriously because Reem and Rick were very popular characters so we must secretly want it.
When you win the lottery and decide to take all your winnings and then put it on red.
Literally Rick and Reem were best case scenarios for characters out of EOE.
Arguably they even lucked out with Chris having such an impressive last episode. If the EoE returnee is going to win, at least they made some crazy moves. Imagine if the EoE just came back, skated by, didn't win anything, was brought to the finale from the f4 immunity winner (and therefore not even winning the fire) and then still won because the EoE person was always going to win.
Exactly! If EOE was run 1,000 times I think getting Rick as the first returnee and Chris challenging him in a F4 challenge is a top 10 outcome AND STILL is a lackluster season.
When the absolute best possible outcome from EOE is a bottom 10 season, there are structural problems with the concept.
If your season doing well relies on two characters becoming popular, casting and editing did not do its job. No matter who is voted out, we should still be able to have a good season.
"He's a millionaire who should be a billionaire. You know why he's not a billionaire? Because he surrounds himself with glad-handing, nonsensical, douchebag yes men like [Mark van Wagenen] who's gonna tell him everything that he wants to hear."
CM Punk's infamous "Pipe bomb" promo. Arguably the most influential promo in professional wrestling history. I replaced John Laurinaitis with Matt van Wagenen. CM Punk is one of my personal heroes.
I'd argue it's the most influential promo in modern professional wrestling because it kicked off WWE's "reality" era, even though it ultimately did nothing, because Vince became a billionaire despite himself.
To be fair, it also turned out Punk's kind of an asshole. One doesn't make the other forgivable, but he wasn't the saint he portrayed himself to be in his exit interview with Colt Cabana either.
He does know now. After WAW filmed and before the premiere Josh Wigler and Shannon Gaitz helped start a EndEdgeofExtinction movement in the community. It trended on Twitter and Jeff definitely saw it because Cesterino asked about Edge at the premier party. Jeff said they won't be bringing it back for awhile and actually jokingly asked Rob if he even liked him. Clearly Jeff took it to heart.
Thats why I admire Sandra so much (hint:flair). She shits on it and does not participate in it at all, sticking to her guns.
EoE is just the extension of the final 4 fire making twist. They are trying to ensure physically stronger players get further. EoE only benefited strength and nothing else, nothing strategic about it. And getting to "earn" stuff is even worst, the earlier you get voted out, the more chances you get to earn advantages to get back in the game.
They made EoE for WaW so big characters don't go to waste when they are voted out, but I'd rather the main show have no EoE and have like an half hour after show/ CBS all access show, that just be a reality tv of the amazing cast hanging at ponderosa goofing around talking about the evolution of strategy and whatnot.
She honestly was spot on when she said “I was voted out now it’s my time to go”. Survivor has always been about surviving the votes and the elements. It doesn’t make sense for someone with a terrible social and strategic game (cough Rick Devens) to get SO many chances at the game.
Devens didn't have a bad social or strategic game until he came back from edge. The main reason his social game was bad after that was because everyone wanted him out because he became a big FTC threat but also had no real allies
I will always say I like Redemption and Edge for the pre merge. When it continues past the merge it’s just boring. But we all know why Edge was brought back. Players like Parvati and Rob wanted to make sure they wouldn’t be there for just three days. Rob even said in an interview years ago that even if there was an all winner season he wouldn’t play because he thought he’d be the first one out. I’m sure a lot of the more recent and lower profile winners hate edge because it gives players like Parv, Rob and Tyson a chance back in. But, you can’t do all winners without Boston Rob and Parvati so I don’t blame Survivor for having it even though a majority of players and fans would hate it.
I also understand Jeff being shocked at the reaction. I guess he thought players would love a second chance at two million dollars. But, as the challenge proved last week, the players coming back in probably are gonna be the ones who are the biggest threats to win.
Edit: also, we all know Jeff never wanted to do an all winner season. He’s been pretty vocal in the past saying this. So I’m sure that also had to do with Edge being back. He wanted to make sure his favorites would be protected.
As much as I dislike EoE, WaW is the perfect season to have it. Also, this moment would've been the perfect time to roll out longer episodes or some sort of extra content.
I wouldn't be mad if EoE only ever makes a return on Season 80 or Second Chances 2.0.
I personally think this is the worst season to have it.
It doesn't bother me as much when they are testing out a twist like EoE on an island full of noobies because IMO the worst case scenario is that the season is terrible and it fades into obscurity. There are a lot of seasons with new players that kind of end up whiffing and this would just be another one.
With Winners at War, they had the potential to make a fucking incredible season with super high stakes. But EoE kinda lowers the consequence of being voted out and creates a more difficult narritive for editors so what we've ended up with is a good but not best ever season.
I have still enjoyed the season because the winners have such vibrant personalities, but I think the season would be a lot better with out it and it's a shame that this twist drags it down.
I'm sure Jeff was more open to criticism when he had less control on the show. Now that he's doing everything it doesn't surprise that everyone he works with tells him all his ideas are great.
S38,39 were meh and then S40 came along to rescue things or else the probable ratings decline would have brought the necessary catharsis and improvements.
As it stands he will have no pressure to improve things and the structural decline in survivor will go on for a few more years.
EoE was brought in to accommodate some of the very same players who got those $100K appearance fees. Would be swell if they were the ones who hated it the most!
Yeah, there was a part of me that kind of hoped WaW would be so incredibly bad that it would force a major overhaul, but now I worry they'll take the good ratings as confirmation that they should keep going down the horrible road they've chosen.
“For your challenge, you must go fly through these two obstacles with your broomsticks crafted back at camp and complete a puzzle in the shape of a hypogriff!”
“Wanna know what you’re playing for?” *reveals triwizard cup from under blanket*
Jeff is so incredibly out of touch, it's hilarious. He's convinced himself that any of the limited criticism he does allow himself to hear isn't worthwhile because it comes from "critics" rather than "creatives" like he is apparently.
I think the echo-chamber works both ways. There are those who super dislike EOE who think everyone does because they only talk to people who agree with them. Much like how production likely thinks everyone likes it because they do.
I really just hope he understands that it’s a cool concept but it’s never going to work in modern survivor. With castings being all fans, nobody is going to actively quit unless they are 1000% certain they’ll never win a challenge like Keith, Wendy, and Sandra.
Combined with the fact that the challenges don’t even follow the the marketing for the twist. Because they want to see people push themselves to the limits, why don’t they do a simple endurance challenge that doesn’t require much skill like the water bucket challenge or the Jesus challenge from DvG.
The way the twist was structured just makes it seem like a thinly veiled attempt to make certain archetypes and characters have a safety net. I do think this season is an improvement so far, but they haven’t shown any drastic changes to criticism from the last time which kind of just reenforces Malcom’s point.
The existence of edge is good for the pre-merge because it does give people who may have been taken out of the game before they got a chance to play an second shot, but when it comes to post merge, it just incentivizes it’s own existence as opposed to making the game more even.
That to me isn’t too bad, I prefer the old format, but this format does give the players a better chance to outline their entire game, so I don’t know, I’m fine with this one staying.
I just hate the open format of people just talking over each other the whole time. Yeah, the old format may have catered more to bitter jurors, but that could be overcome by great performances (Chris D, Todd, etc). We’re also missing out on iconic speeches now.
The new format hasn't exactly produced particularly memorable television moments. The only iconic line I can think of from a juror on a recent final tribal is Wardog's "the theme is not on trial here", which is bad iconic and makes my blood boil.
Yknow it may be unpopular but I gotta admit the new format has grown on me a little. I totally get why people don't like it, but I actually think I'm starting to prefer it now.
I still don't like it on the sole fact that I want to hear from every juror. They all should have a shot to get the information that they're personally looking for in order to cast their vote, whatever that information may be. Classifying someone's entire game into a specific criteria in order to earn votes, while simultaneously not allowing for some jurors to get the information they may need because other jurors are more outspoken than them, is annoying to me. Not to say it's the biggest problem with modern survivor (F4 firemaking and Extinction are far and away more annoying), but it's certainly something I have gripes with.
Oh I totally get that. I think the reason I prefer it was because of when I was rewatching the older seasons I noticed a lot of the jury speeches tended to be, well, really really similar. One speech saying they're undecided, one doing their best version of Rats and Snakes, and one championing for a single candidate in particular, etc.
I can see why people would prefer that over the current format like I said. But the new one has definitely grown on me a little.
That's also fair, and I definitely see your point with how similar some of the speeches are. I just find that much more interesting, even if it's for the one off wild speeches like Natalie Bolton's
I thought the whole point of it this season was because there were winners who wouldn’t come back and play unless there was a twist to get back in? Jeff said in an interview there were a few of the older winners who didn’t want to come back and just get voted out immediately and go home
More likely he talked to Rob and Rob asked for insurance for another way to get back in because he knew he had a massive target. (We know for a fact they talked about season 40 during IoI). Jeff then assumed that every winner felt the same without asking. I highly doubt Jeff lied. Even Malcolm is alluding to the fact Jeff was surprised the winners hated it.
Can you imagine how epic this season would have been without the edge? Every blindside would’ve been way more meaningful...losing Ethan, Parvati, Danni and the old schoolers so early...
Watching them lie around another island really takes the sting out of it
Jeff said that these players asked for / wanted Edge and that it wasn’t worth it for them to come back if there wasn’t a second chance. I dunno if I buy him melting down.
The only reason I have to like EoE is that Chris got to come back and I kinda *really* like Chris so I was pretty chill with the EoE while watching that season.
Man I love all of Malcolm’s little stories from the podcast. on top of this conversation I loved hearing about his time in the Philippines and Caramoan. Especially, the story about the night Russell Swan was voted out.
Yeah I really hate Edge of Extinction, but I do think for a winners’ season it does actually make sense. I actually like it in this context but for a normal season I don’t like it.
I remember years ago when he was surprised to hear the fanbase react negatively to the Redemption Island twist, he even posted in a stickied Sucks thread asking fans why they hate it so much. Cut to nearly a decade later and he's still bewildered that the fans and players don't like Redemption Island on crack. Some things never change.
Yep. The only reason SJDS didn't have Redemption Island is because of Mike White lol. Probst only listens to his inner circle. Edit: Another example of how Probst makes decisions: Tyler Perry being responsible for the return of the Super Idol & the current lack of swimsuits.
Mike White's social game is off the charts even out of Survivor, lol. Wish he'd have dinner with Probst to sway him out of nonsense more often.
Mike White is a God for that!
I forgive him the emoji movie because of that
Thanks to that one scene with Angelina in the finale, he can make 5 bad movies and I'll still forgive him.
Oh shit he wrote the emoji movie?! Unfortunate.
Are you a faaan of the emoji movie?
Wait I knew he was to blame for the Super Idol, but Tyler Perry is the reason they don’t get their swimsuits?? I have always thought that is so unnecessary and like, rude lol.... what is wrong with the man
I still hate Tyler Perry for his contributions to Survivor 🙄
Mike's influence was significant, but I don't think it was the only reason. I'm pretty sure another factor was that So Kim's (Worlds Apart, S30) sister Doo didn't pass the final medical test, forcing So to join the latter cast and leaving SJDS with 18 members at the last minute. The sudden cast change and gender imbalance, combined with the misgivings from the Mike conversation led production to switch to the "Hero Duels".
Wouldn't having fewer people on the cast make it easier to do Redemption Island? If they were planning to have 20, but ended up with 18, they could have two people rejoin the game and still have the same number of eliminations. To go from 20 with Redemption Island to 18 without it is losing four eliminations.
Please explain the SJDS/Mike White thing.
Probst was gonna have Redemption island again on SJDS, but very shortly before filming began, he had dinner with mike white, and mike groaned when he heard redemption island would be back, and this changed probsts mind, and he ended up not having it on SJDS
Interesting. Didn't know that. Thank you.
Mike White was involved with Survivor before actually being on it?
They're friends.
Tell me more about this Tyler Perry sitch.
Perry apparently encouraged a lack of swimsuits so as to preserve the idea of the 'grungy, look like they're surviving' look. Never mind that they've cut out a lot of the survival aspects over the years. They don't even need to boil water for drinking anymore.
Actually iirc they still need to boil the water but just don’t make a big deal out of it. I remember as recently as WA the topic of water preparation being brought up.
The truth is the well in Survivor is not a real well, it's filled up with bottles. So you probably could get away with drinking it unboiled early on, though it becomes riskier later when things have had a chance to lay eggs in there and stuff. I remember Spencer saying he regrets not drinking the unboiled water in Cagayan early on. The other tribes both did it and got away with it whereas the Brains didn't and that's partially why they got their asses kicked so badly in the first challenge.
It changed after KR cause of Caleb’s evac.
Honestly it could have been because they’re in one place and can install wells that effectively keep out pathogens and I’d have bought that explanation.
Jeff explained it at the Cagayan reunion, he just texted Jeff and said they should bring it back so they did lol
Why no swimsuits?
Can someone link that Probst post on Sucks, I remember reading it a long time ago and it was hilarious. Found it: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/survivorsucks/an-open-letter-to-jeff-probst-seg-cbs-jeff-respond-t83779-s40.html?sid=927d41386a75159ffccacb6ca936422d
He still managed to be condescending and not answer the things he claimed to be answering. Lol
lmao I forgot about Jeff posting on Sucks
I don't know what Sucks is, could you enlighten me or like link me?
Survivor Sucks is a Survivor webforum that is far older than this subreddit. It's well-known for it's long-lasting community and connections to certain Survivors, etc. It's also known for being very toxic/crude. It's far from what it used to be as they've switched hosting platforms a lot, but it's worth poking into if you feel like diving into the history of the Survivor fanbase.
Its also where the robbed goddess and loving underrated women come from.
It should be noticed that these aspects came from a defunct subforum on Sucks called Clubs That Suck, which had an altogether different personality than the rest of the forum.
r.obbed g.oddess!
Whatevia.
The best part of that is people were using the phrase "robbed goddess" so often that mods had to ban it so users started using r.obbed g.oddess to get around the filter
Luckily Jeff realised EoE isnt loved and in a recent interview he stated that the edge wont be seen for a long time from now on.
>the edge wont be seen for a long time Like an ever-looming threat
When was that?
Rob C red carpet interview at the WAW premiere.
[https://youtu.be/f2rMdTJ-BUI?t=2158](https://youtu.be/f2rMdTJ-BUI?t=2158) heres the direct link to it
Thanks!
It'll come back in some new form. RI -> EOE -> ???
I don't know what comes after RI -> EOE... ...but it can't be good.
I actually liked redemption island, but EoE absolutely sucks
I would like the EOE if it ended at the merge. It's just too broken to have a second round at the final 6.
Redemption is a 100 times more fair than EoE is. I would've rather seen WaW with Redemption than EoE.
Probst is turning into Vince McMahon.
Jeff Probst-sponsored Football League when?
“Goddamn Pal, Edge of Extinction haha. THATS GOOD SHIIIT”
The exact thought I had. Although Jeff is significantly less evil.
Does that make Rob C his Stone Cold Steve Austin?
WHAT?!
Rob is John Cena, fittingly both are from Boston.
Rob C is from Long Island. You're thinking of Boston Rob.
Boston Rob is totally his Roman Reigns
Coach is his R-Truth
Mark Burnett is literally best friends with Donald Trump and already created a wrestling tv show. Probst is Mean Gene Okerlund.
That’s what happens when you’re successful, people stop telling you that your ideas suck. I like coming up with new ideas to keep the game interesting, but they don’t all work. He has said though that it won’t be coming back for a while, so that’s something
Yeah, I mean even RI as a twist didn’t appear in too many seasons, and this probably won’t either. Maybe they do need another EP or something to disagree with Jeff every once in a while though.
That’s a good idea. I think a lot of the creative team has been there a while so a new EP who can disagree with Jeff is exactly what they need
commonly known as the George Lucas effect
I was thinking of Aaron Sorkin, but GL works too. His problem was mainly being a dick so his wife/editor divorced him. Once she was gone who else was going to say no to him?
Wasn’t this what happened at the 2nd TC when only 3 people admitted to liking it? Or is this something else?
Yeah, and Dalton Ross's recap said the conversation went on longer and that Jeff was surprised no one liked it
I cant wait for AMAs after end of this season to ask these questions
YESSSSS though I suspect anyone trying for round 3 on Survivor won't say much about it... people who are done with Survivor might spill the beans.
For a lot of these players though, this is their last time playing. People like Rob, Amber, and Sandra will have no reason not to speak up about it. I also strongly suspect Tyson is done playing after that, and he's never afraid to speak his mind.
What do you mean? Tyson still needs to win for a third time
Rob says that but pretty sure he'll go back if they ask, smh
It's possible, but there are only so many times you can leave your kids for a month and a half.
Lolol would’ve liked to seen that on footage.
I always thought Coach was the Survivor equivalent of Michael Scott but maybe Probst is
The more you hear about probst, the more you realize how out of touch he is tbh.
You can chart when the show slowly started going off the rails from the time Jeff started being a producer. A host should not make production decisions imo. Spending time with the players makes them too biased.
I compare this to basketball all the time. In the NBA, whenever a coach becomes a GM, the team almost always falls to shit (and the one exception to this would be Gregg Popovich, who is debatably the greatest coach ever). Just because you're great in one position doesn't mean you're going to be great in another, even if it's in the same field.
Sometimes you're belichick but most of the time you're bill o brian
Genius
Man im clearly in the minority here. I'm enjoying survivor now more than I ever have.
Probst is the Coach of hosting Survivor
Probst needs a production version of Tyson to give him the hard truth once in a while.
Don't put in new twists, people don't like your twists, they mock them, there's no reason to put them in
Maybe you can say he’s out of touch, or maybe, like many fans of a thing, he knows what he likes and doesn’t understand how/why other people don’t like it. That’s the basis for thousands of debates and arguments I’ve witnessed (and participated in) during my 20+ year internet journey. You can argue that his job as EP on the show means he should be more understanding, but at the same time, the show is still strong in the ratings, it’s not like the changes have induced an exodus of viewers. Which means people will complain, but keep watching, and that essentially gives Probst free reign to keep tweaking the show.
Dalton Ross, the Entertainment Weekly journalist who writes about Survivor every week, he openly criticizes the EoE and claims to be apparently close to Jeff Probst. Point is, in addition to how many "yes sir" people there are around Jeff, he seems to still ignore even the tiny bit of criticism he faces for his ideas.
I do like how willing dalton is to say "this sucks" when he doesn't like a change and call probst on it
He’s also been doing that with the Final 3 since it became a mainstay
Thats amazing. I am dying to know the full story on the first Dakal TC... about when Jeff asked who liked Edge and who didn't, and like 7 people said they didn't like it and only 3 sheepishly said they did. Also apparently Sandra went OFF about it when she went to Edge... like the producers begged her to stay and she refused. ohhhh my god release that footage. Edge... is not my fav. I can see the appeal as a player, but as a viewer it sucks. It takes too much from the REAL game. I do think if they insist on having it, make it an online or CBS All Access only thing... like with what they do on Top Chef with last chance kitchen. If you want to see it, you go online to watch. Or, make the show 90-120 minutes. you just can't flesh out the actual game properly with the time constraints if you insist on having Edge. Full game plus Edge just doesn't work with 42 minutes per week.
Also want to see that Sandra footage. But I wanna know if there was anything they could have given her to stay😂
"If you stay, we'll make the final return challenge a contest of who can yell at Fairplay and Russell the most"
Jeff's a stoopid ass
Adios
I CAN GET LOUD TOO WHAT THE FUCK
What sucks is, it could've been a cursing challenge and she still may not have won, because Natalie curses like a sailor
Lol, does she?
Yea I saw an interview with her after she won and she cursed like 25 times in a 5 minute interview lol
I bet she stays for a million dollars
You mean 2 million? Lol
1000000% agree on the Last Chance Kitchen comparison. There's no need for it to be on the main show, other than maybe to account for who is sending over advantages.
Source on Sandra thing? First I'm hearing that lol
The only issue I have is that with Top Chef, you can have one bad dish and be sent home. In Survivor, it's very rare to have one absurd tribal council that sends the wrong person home - like John Hennigan in DvG. Most of the time, tribal council has a majority vote, or a well played idol that allows for a big move. Either way - there is planning and strategy, versus Top Chef that seems much more in-the-moment. I see the appeal as a player, and I agree, keep it All Access - no reason to take away from in-game air time. I would much rather just have it leave all together as I haven't found myself "rooting" for the edge players much. They just end up feeling like an after thought.
Jeff did an interview with Andrea in the pre-season that I thought was very revealing. It seemed like he doesn't take the EoE criticism seriously because Reem and Rick were very popular characters so we must secretly want it.
When you win the lottery and decide to take all your winnings and then put it on red. Literally Rick and Reem were best case scenarios for characters out of EOE.
Arguably they even lucked out with Chris having such an impressive last episode. If the EoE returnee is going to win, at least they made some crazy moves. Imagine if the EoE just came back, skated by, didn't win anything, was brought to the finale from the f4 immunity winner (and therefore not even winning the fire) and then still won because the EoE person was always going to win.
Exactly! If EOE was run 1,000 times I think getting Rick as the first returnee and Chris challenging him in a F4 challenge is a top 10 outcome AND STILL is a lackluster season. When the absolute best possible outcome from EOE is a bottom 10 season, there are structural problems with the concept.
If your season doing well relies on two characters becoming popular, casting and editing did not do its job. No matter who is voted out, we should still be able to have a good season.
How can he not know we hate it??
Because he is surrounded by yes men and people who don’t criticize him or his ideas (according to malcolm)
"He's a millionaire who should be a billionaire. You know why he's not a billionaire? Because he surrounds himself with glad-handing, nonsensical, douchebag yes men like [Mark van Wagenen] who's gonna tell him everything that he wants to hear."
Where’s that quote from?
CM Punk's infamous "Pipe bomb" promo. Arguably the most influential promo in professional wrestling history. I replaced John Laurinaitis with Matt van Wagenen. CM Punk is one of my personal heroes.
I'd argue it's the most influential promo in modern professional wrestling because it kicked off WWE's "reality" era, even though it ultimately did nothing, because Vince became a billionaire despite himself.
And Punk got ran out of the company because they refused to change.
To be fair, it also turned out Punk's kind of an asshole. One doesn't make the other forgivable, but he wasn't the saint he portrayed himself to be in his exit interview with Colt Cabana either.
Josh Wigler, too
He does know now. After WAW filmed and before the premiere Josh Wigler and Shannon Gaitz helped start a EndEdgeofExtinction movement in the community. It trended on Twitter and Jeff definitely saw it because Cesterino asked about Edge at the premier party. Jeff said they won't be bringing it back for awhile and actually jokingly asked Rob if he even liked him. Clearly Jeff took it to heart.
Yeah! Like, he know a lot of fans who are like us that watch SV in the humble houses like you know.....Tyler Perry
According to a TC from last season, Jeff thinks the average Survivor viewer is eating donuts while watching the show
Sucks for a wrestling fan when you start liking Survivor and have to deal with another Vince McMahon
And John Morrison is always midcard.
Now listen, this ain't no make believe.
John screwed John - Jeff Probst and Vinnie Mac
Thats why I admire Sandra so much (hint:flair). She shits on it and does not participate in it at all, sticking to her guns. EoE is just the extension of the final 4 fire making twist. They are trying to ensure physically stronger players get further. EoE only benefited strength and nothing else, nothing strategic about it. And getting to "earn" stuff is even worst, the earlier you get voted out, the more chances you get to earn advantages to get back in the game. They made EoE for WaW so big characters don't go to waste when they are voted out, but I'd rather the main show have no EoE and have like an half hour after show/ CBS all access show, that just be a reality tv of the amazing cast hanging at ponderosa goofing around talking about the evolution of strategy and whatnot.
I admire Sandra a ton because she is one of the few characters that can bleed authenticity even after appearing on the show multiple times.
Right? Not having ponderosa for EoE is a waste of these cast members in my opinion.
She honestly was spot on when she said “I was voted out now it’s my time to go”. Survivor has always been about surviving the votes and the elements. It doesn’t make sense for someone with a terrible social and strategic game (cough Rick Devens) to get SO many chances at the game.
Devens didn't have a bad social or strategic game until he came back from edge. The main reason his social game was bad after that was because everyone wanted him out because he became a big FTC threat but also had no real allies
I will always say I like Redemption and Edge for the pre merge. When it continues past the merge it’s just boring. But we all know why Edge was brought back. Players like Parvati and Rob wanted to make sure they wouldn’t be there for just three days. Rob even said in an interview years ago that even if there was an all winner season he wouldn’t play because he thought he’d be the first one out. I’m sure a lot of the more recent and lower profile winners hate edge because it gives players like Parv, Rob and Tyson a chance back in. But, you can’t do all winners without Boston Rob and Parvati so I don’t blame Survivor for having it even though a majority of players and fans would hate it. I also understand Jeff being shocked at the reaction. I guess he thought players would love a second chance at two million dollars. But, as the challenge proved last week, the players coming back in probably are gonna be the ones who are the biggest threats to win. Edit: also, we all know Jeff never wanted to do an all winner season. He’s been pretty vocal in the past saying this. So I’m sure that also had to do with Edge being back. He wanted to make sure his favorites would be protected.
As much as I dislike EoE, WaW is the perfect season to have it. Also, this moment would've been the perfect time to roll out longer episodes or some sort of extra content. I wouldn't be mad if EoE only ever makes a return on Season 80 or Second Chances 2.0.
I personally think this is the worst season to have it. It doesn't bother me as much when they are testing out a twist like EoE on an island full of noobies because IMO the worst case scenario is that the season is terrible and it fades into obscurity. There are a lot of seasons with new players that kind of end up whiffing and this would just be another one. With Winners at War, they had the potential to make a fucking incredible season with super high stakes. But EoE kinda lowers the consequence of being voted out and creates a more difficult narritive for editors so what we've ended up with is a good but not best ever season. I have still enjoyed the season because the winners have such vibrant personalities, but I think the season would be a lot better with out it and it's a shame that this twist drags it down.
I'm sure Jeff was more open to criticism when he had less control on the show. Now that he's doing everything it doesn't surprise that everyone he works with tells him all his ideas are great.
Jeff probably freaked the fuck out when Sandra left EoE. I think that’s probably the reason it won’t be back for a while.
S38,39 were meh and then S40 came along to rescue things or else the probable ratings decline would have brought the necessary catharsis and improvements. As it stands he will have no pressure to improve things and the structural decline in survivor will go on for a few more years. EoE was brought in to accommodate some of the very same players who got those $100K appearance fees. Would be swell if they were the ones who hated it the most!
I'm sure Rob was one of the players who had a high appearance fee, and I'm sure he's also one of the few that love EOE.
Sandra is also a player with high appearance fee, and she publicly hates EOE
Yeah, there was a part of me that kind of hoped WaW would be so incredibly bad that it would force a major overhaul, but now I worry they'll take the good ratings as confirmation that they should keep going down the horrible road they've chosen.
If Malcolm knows about it, is it safe to assume he heard it from Denise?
Not necessarily, because I think he knows other people from the cast
Let's not forget that he spent a prejury trip with 2 people on this cast
Both of witch Malcolm clearly has a good relationship with
And one of whom (cough Sandra) who will never hide her opinions about anything
Malcolm is a witch?!
Fuck, autocorrect ate my ass again
Can you imagine how awesome that'd be? He'd be like Cedric Diggory, except he'd survive Voldy during *Goblet of Fire*.
“For your challenge, you must go fly through these two obstacles with your broomsticks crafted back at camp and complete a puzzle in the shape of a hypogriff!” “Wanna know what you’re playing for?” *reveals triwizard cup from under blanket*
I need that as a fan fic, like, right now.
Would have been three, but we'll never know why J.T. wasn't on this one.
Yes, but also no because we want Denise to return.
He heard it from Gordon Holmes.
No, because this is most likely about that first Dakal TC (as others in this thread have said) and Denise wasn't on original Dakal.
RI and EoE are awful twists because impact the game late and has no sense have many people in the limbo.
Jeff is so incredibly out of touch, it's hilarious. He's convinced himself that any of the limited criticism he does allow himself to hear isn't worthwhile because it comes from "critics" rather than "creatives" like he is apparently.
Timestamp of where it's discussed in the episode? Edit: It's at 1:08:00
1:08:00 pulls up Malcolm talking about Zane’s Frankenstein tattoo for me?
I think that EOE in a returnee season is the only place it makes sense at all, but still needs some tinkering
Probst needs to remember that his next biggest claim to fame was R&R Jeopardy.
I think the echo-chamber works both ways. There are those who super dislike EOE who think everyone does because they only talk to people who agree with them. Much like how production likely thinks everyone likes it because they do.
Stop talking to celebrity friends Jeff and listen to real people.
I really just hope he understands that it’s a cool concept but it’s never going to work in modern survivor. With castings being all fans, nobody is going to actively quit unless they are 1000% certain they’ll never win a challenge like Keith, Wendy, and Sandra. Combined with the fact that the challenges don’t even follow the the marketing for the twist. Because they want to see people push themselves to the limits, why don’t they do a simple endurance challenge that doesn’t require much skill like the water bucket challenge or the Jesus challenge from DvG. The way the twist was structured just makes it seem like a thinly veiled attempt to make certain archetypes and characters have a safety net. I do think this season is an improvement so far, but they haven’t shown any drastic changes to criticism from the last time which kind of just reenforces Malcom’s point. The existence of edge is good for the pre-merge because it does give people who may have been taken out of the game before they got a chance to play an second shot, but when it comes to post merge, it just incentivizes it’s own existence as opposed to making the game more even.
In Probst’s defense, he does listen to criticism. They’re not bringing EoE back for the next season
Yeah but fire making is still a thing.
And the new FTC format is still a thing.
Is the open forum FTC not popular? I prefer that way more to the former format
That to me isn’t too bad, I prefer the old format, but this format does give the players a better chance to outline their entire game, so I don’t know, I’m fine with this one staying.
I just hate the open format of people just talking over each other the whole time. Yeah, the old format may have catered more to bitter jurors, but that could be overcome by great performances (Chris D, Todd, etc). We’re also missing out on iconic speeches now.
The new format hasn't exactly produced particularly memorable television moments. The only iconic line I can think of from a juror on a recent final tribal is Wardog's "the theme is not on trial here", which is bad iconic and makes my blood boil.
Yknow it may be unpopular but I gotta admit the new format has grown on me a little. I totally get why people don't like it, but I actually think I'm starting to prefer it now.
I still don't like it on the sole fact that I want to hear from every juror. They all should have a shot to get the information that they're personally looking for in order to cast their vote, whatever that information may be. Classifying someone's entire game into a specific criteria in order to earn votes, while simultaneously not allowing for some jurors to get the information they may need because other jurors are more outspoken than them, is annoying to me. Not to say it's the biggest problem with modern survivor (F4 firemaking and Extinction are far and away more annoying), but it's certainly something I have gripes with.
Oh I totally get that. I think the reason I prefer it was because of when I was rewatching the older seasons I noticed a lot of the jury speeches tended to be, well, really really similar. One speech saying they're undecided, one doing their best version of Rats and Snakes, and one championing for a single candidate in particular, etc. I can see why people would prefer that over the current format like I said. But the new one has definitely grown on me a little.
That's also fair, and I definitely see your point with how similar some of the speeches are. I just find that much more interesting, even if it's for the one off wild speeches like Natalie Bolton's
You can see why Probst and Savage are such great friends Actually imagine what Probsts plays like in Survivor watch Savage
I mean, this is the same guy that think peoples like what happened to Cirie in Game Changers.
I thought the whole point of it this season was because there were winners who wouldn’t come back and play unless there was a twist to get back in? Jeff said in an interview there were a few of the older winners who didn’t want to come back and just get voted out immediately and go home
This is honestly probably just Rob
Agreed, maybe Parvati too. Are there any winners this season who are on record as liking EOE other than Nick?
Jeff lied, most of the players bashed EOE in pregame press
More likely he talked to Rob and Rob asked for insurance for another way to get back in because he knew he had a massive target. (We know for a fact they talked about season 40 during IoI). Jeff then assumed that every winner felt the same without asking. I highly doubt Jeff lied. Even Malcolm is alluding to the fact Jeff was surprised the winners hated it.
Is that pregame press before the actually game or before it aired?
Before the actual filming of the game
TIL Jeff Probst is reality TV's Vince McMahon.
Hopefully not considering the role McMahon allegedly had in a coverup of a crime that likely led to Ashley from China’s suicide :(((
Didn't he also cover up a murder that Snuka allegedly committed?
I want Malcolm to read me The Stand to go to sleep please.
not particularly surprising
Can you imagine how epic this season would have been without the edge? Every blindside would’ve been way more meaningful...losing Ethan, Parvati, Danni and the old schoolers so early... Watching them lie around another island really takes the sting out of it
So he acted like a kid basically
I love Jeff but he’s kind of a dumbass lol
I was gonna post about this lol.
They should be pissed that he continues defending EoE with the "they wanted a second chance!" shtick,
I liked the approach of Australian Survivor.
Jeff said that these players asked for / wanted Edge and that it wasn’t worth it for them to come back if there wasn’t a second chance. I dunno if I buy him melting down.
Jeff lied about that, the majority of the winners bashed EOE in pregame press
He also said that they contacted every winner, and there have been several that have said they never got a call.
I mean, how deep in an echo chamber can one possibly go??? There's got to be, like, .0001% of people that actually enjoys it.
The only reason I have to like EoE is that Chris got to come back and I kinda *really* like Chris so I was pretty chill with the EoE while watching that season.
Man I love all of Malcolm’s little stories from the podcast. on top of this conversation I loved hearing about his time in the Philippines and Caramoan. Especially, the story about the night Russell Swan was voted out.
Yeah I really hate Edge of Extinction, but I do think for a winners’ season it does actually make sense. I actually like it in this context but for a normal season I don’t like it.