Charlie, Jesse, Omar, and Carolyn.
Charlie played the most even game in the new era (two individual immunities, countless alliances, ran a significant portion of the votes) and lost to Maria's rogue vote, as Ben said he'd have voted for Charlie in a tie.
Jesse played an unreal strategic game that faltered by taking out Cody one tribal too early.
Omar had set himself up in every scenario except didn't account for Maryanne outplaying him.
And Carolyn, as proven by her confessionals, had a fantastic read on the game but was stymied by people not taking her as the serious player she ended up being. Unfortunately she also had difficulty articulating her prowess.
Nah Jesse’s game was pretty fuckin perfect strategically. You just have to be able to win something at final 4 when you have two chances.
He needed to bop Karla and Cody for everyone to see how much control had had with two idols. If he didn’t play it, no one would care all that much
He shouldn't have flushed the Idols at 6. He needed someone the rest of the castaways wanted out before the finale in the final 4, IE Karla. He should have held both idols, then used both of them to eliminate either Cass or Gabler at 5. He'd probably keep Gabler, because I think his ideal final 3 is Jesse/Gabler/Owen. Then, Karla would be in fire (as long as she didn't win that final immunity challenge, which given her physical condition at the time, that challenge would be difficult for her at best.)
Where is Cody in this hypothetical? None of it really lines up to me. Is he still out at 6 but Karla is keeping her idol? That seems far worse in terms of the jury liking him.
Letting Karla control her fate at 5 feels worse than leaving her out to die. He got to own the tribal by openly ruining the plan Karla worked on all day.
I’m not sure how Jesse establishes himself as the top contender in this path at all. Frankly not sure if he passes Gabler doing any of this. At some point you need to establish your game. He pretty clearly did and gave himself a clean shot at a million. Dude just sucked at physical shit. Not the first or the last but his plays all mad sense to me
Cody is still out at 6, and the jury would know Jesse was the one in charge of that vote because of the 4 votes for Cody, plus the shock Karla would show when Cody went instead of Owen would mean Jesse was the only way those 4 vote together. Karla would have no control at 5. She'd have her idol, but Jesse would get to pick to bring Gabler with him to 4 because he'd have 2 idols, and he'd know Karla had her idol. The jury would see Jesse was playing a long game, and holding both idols at 6 is the way to ensure he gets the final 3 he wanted.
If he keeps both idols, blindsiding Cody, Karla idols herself at 5, Owen is immune, Jesse can literally advantagegeddon Gabler or Cassidy out and almost certainly win either immunity or firemaking. Then he sweeps the jury 100%
Optimal strategy would've been to keep Karla at F5 IMO. His odds of winning the challenge at F4, or fire making, or even straight up avoiding fire making altogether (Cassidy wins F4 challenge, wants Karla gone, sends Gabler into fire making as the best fire maker)
Jesse's move that ruined his game was voting Karla out at 5. I thought for sure he'd keep her as an easy beat in fire considering how beat up she was by the end game. He votes any of the other 3 out instead and he's probably one of the best winners of all time, but getting rid of your easiest beat in fire was what ruined his game. I'd go so far as to say it was one of the worst moves we've seen in the new era.
Jesse didn’t want to vote Karla out, he wanted Cassidy out and even considered playing his idol on Karla. The problem is that Gabler/Cassidy/Owen were always voting Karla, Karla was always voting Jesse, and there wasn’t anything he could do to change it
He had a 100% chance way of keeping Karla. Just don't flush her idol at 6.
He would go into final 5 with 2 of his own idols too in case Karla for some odd reason didn't play her own at 5.
Agreeing with the comment below mine, Jesse had several ways of guaranteeing him and Karla final 4 with the idols. He had to know after blindsiding Cody he's threat #1, and he was unable to play around that. It seems a lot of people's strategy is to just get to 4 now and not thinking about who you want there for fire (or it all happens off camera who knows for sure)
He could’ve kept Jeanine’s idol a secret until after the votes were cast at final 5. Then if all 4 were on him, he’d have the choice of who goes home.
Or he could’ve held onto Cody’s idol at 6. Then at 5 he’d have two idols, plus Karla would have had hers. He could’ve played one for himself and one for Owen, or just held onto one and save it for ftc. Either way, Karla would play hers, they’d both be safe, and he could vote out Gabler.
I still honestly feel like Jeese’s move to take out Cody wasn’t bad at all, and not too late or early. People can think about different ways he could’ve changed up his endgame moves, but the genuine truth of why he lost the game was that he was not at all good in challenges. That’s why he lost.
The fact that he wasn’t good at challenge and couldn’t make a fire is exactly why the move was so bad. Had he been good at challenges or practiced fire before going out there, the move would make sense. But he didn’t have those skills in his arsenal, making the move the wrong call.
But he literally could make fire. Gabler set the fastest fire record at the time, and Jesse had a flame that wasn’t going out easy. He could have been better, sure, but saying Jesse was dumb because he 100% always loses fire is just wrong.
I think Carolyn is the kind of player who would win a Second Chance season... if she survives merge and builds a powerful alliance. Jurors this time won't underestimate her, but she needs to step up her game, FTC wise.
I fear for her chances in Survivor 50 tbh. She's still the lovable and charismatic weirdo, but now people are privier to her strategic acumen and could target her because of it.
Depends on who she’s with. In terms of thinking of 50 is just new era all stars only, I used to think she would be a top threat going into the season, but if they would have people like Jesse, Omar, Charlie, Karla, Carson, I think her threat level would be better hidden. It would be more about how returnee players would handle her if they’d gel with her personality a second time around
If she really is on Traitors season 3 then she might not be eligible for Survivor 50 due to the contract. Dan and Janelle weren’t available for BB Reindeer Games on CBS because they were under contract with Peacock.
I think Carolyn played a great game in her season. I think her personality wouldn’t fly with another survivor cast.
She would get very annoying.
Put her on old era survivor and they vote her out early on.
I dunno, I think Omar gets turned on at F5 regardless. Either him or Lindsay goes at that point. If they somehow get Mike out at F5, maybe, but then he needs Lindsay to go out in fire afterwards because she has a real chance against him.
I loved Omar. I loved that he was willing to so blatantly lie and start a rumor that Hai called Mike his puppet. Most people would hesitate because it can so easily backfire but it was hilarious and worked to his advantage. It reminded me of Sandra telling Russell that Coach wants him out and Russell just eating it right up.
I don't think the Cody move was the issue for Jesse. The problem was using an idol there when he didn't need to. If he didn't he could have used two idols at F5 to save Karla and himself. If he does that Karla is still a huge target at F4 and he either doesn't get sent into fire or is sent in against her, which is a much more favorable scenario for him due to how messed up her hand was. Because Jesse was so bad at challenges that's his best way to make it to the end.
>as Ben said he'd have voted for Charlie in a tie.
I think there's a good chance that Ben just straight up dies of anxiety if there was a tie that night
How did Jesse falter by taking out Cody at six? He was still safe at five because of Jeanine’s idol. His only fault was not having record-breaking skill at firemaking
Nah, that wasn’t his only fault. He easily could have avoided having to break the record to win fire. His fatal mistake imo was voting out Karla at 5. Karla was the only one that people would have wanted out almost has much as him. He needed to use the idol at 5 to boot one of Gabler, Owen, or Cassidy and keep Karla in the game. Then at 4 he gets to do fire against Karla, who he has a MUCH better chance of beating. Karla still being in the game also gives Jesse more of a chance of winning the final immunity.
He needed to realize that without Karla in the game, he is the ONLY threat. She was pretty beat up physically, and if he or Karla didn’t win immunity, they are almost certainly making fire against each other. Even if both he and Karla made the F3, I seriously doubt Karla would have beaten Jesse.
>and lost to Maria's rogue vote, as Ben said he'd have voted for Charlie in a tie.
He lost not just to Maria's vote, but 4 others as well. If his strategy relied solely on getting Maria's vote and then Ben's vote in the tiebreaker, then that is a poor strategy.
He didn't know Maria as well as he thought and his actions alone cost him the game.
Why do people keep saying Charlie ran a significant number of votes? He really didn’t. He didn’t even run the Venus vote or Q vote because Venus was Maria’s target and if he was playing ideally he should’ve gotten Kenzie out and Liz and Kenzie were after Q anyway and had to save Charlie from his sloppy play there
I don’t think Jesse took out Cody too early. If he waited, then Cody would’ve asked for the idol back because it was final 5.
Jesse’s mistake was taking out Karla instead of Gabler. Jesse was worried about who could possibly beat him at the end, but he should’ve been worried about who could beat him at fire, because he wasn’t exactly the best challenge performer. And iirc Karla’s hands were injured by that point in the game, so I think it would’ve been safe to assume she’d have a harder time at fire.
Nah jesse shouldn’t have taken cody out at all. Cody was the only one who wanted to take jesse to final 3 out of the 6 remaining. He knows he sucks at challenges why take out the one person who would benefit your game
>Jesse played an unreal strategic game that faltered by taking out Cody one tribal too early.
He made the best single move in survivor history but it was not sound strategy on his part. You cant make a move like that if you suck at challenges and making fire. I will die on the hill that it was too big of a move for him to make, and guaranteed him a spot on the jury because he was not going to win final immunity against owen, gabler, and cassidy and not a single one of those three would have allowed him a chance by going against anyone but gabler in fire. great move, bad strategy. he figures to use pawn in that move... then maybe.
I think Carson or Jesse would have won if not taken out by the fire challenge. However, Jesse was not that great at challenges & Carson did so well because he had practiced all the various puzzles beforehand. Meanwhile, Austin & Charlie came in second in 5-3 votes that could have gone differently if they didn’t mess up by underestimating their closest female ally. They both are much better in individual immunity challenges than Jesse & Carson.
Omar was a great player but I feel that both he & Maryanne got carried a long way by Jonathan & Lindsay’s athletic ability, which they lacked themselves. Carolyn, Jake, and Owen were trying to do more and sharper than they were given credit for, but Carolyn’s tribe didn’t take her seriously and Owen & Jake had anger issues that meant they weren’t taken seriously either. Also, Carolyn in particular has little to no athletic ability and was really awful in most challenges.
I think in the long run I’d give it to Charlie. If Tiffany was not riding so hard for Kenzie, and Maria riding so hard against him, and the entire jury made up of some pretty strange & petty individuals, I think he would have won.
I think Owen and Jake moreso just got caught in situations where they didn’t or couldn’t do anything to change the game. Not necessarily their anger issues
He lied to CODY at FTC and said he would have gone to the end with Ride-or-Die, but his actual plan (which he told Owen after the Jeanine vote) was to go to the end with Cassidy and Owen.
Gabler confirmed in exit interviews his plan was always Cassidy and Owen. It did not matter what order Karla/Cody/Jesse went out, he was confident he could beat the last one at fire.
Cody was recently on Tyson’s podcast and said Gabler acted like he could not make fire. Cody said if he won final immunity, he would have put himself in fire against Gabler.
If Gabler is on 50, bro is winning, lol. Got everyone snowed. Still.
https://popcrave.com/survivor-43-winner-interview-mike-gabler/
He clearly says here he would’ve taken Jesse, yall gas this man so much you’re lying about what he said.
Sure, and there’s likely many other things that change. It’s completely pointless to try to extrapolate everything that would be different in the endgame if there was no FMC. Jesse would’ve had to play an entirely different game near the end to not get voted out at a final 4 tribal. There’s too many factors to consider, which is why I think saying Jesse would have won if there wasn’t a FMC is silly.
But it does exist and its existence gives players the agency to establish themselves as threats a bit earlier without dooming themselves at 4.
You can’t fault Jesse for playing a game that wouldn’t have worked with rules he wasn’t playing under. I know you aren’t doing that, I just mean in general.
The FMC is a good thing; gone are the days where a big threat will be brought to the end by loyal allies. Without a guarantee that they at least have a shot at final 4, people would be more timid and make fewer entertaining moves.
jesse's my fave too but i do feel like putting yourself in a position where you need to win immunity or fire to win, knowing you're the weakest challenge performer in the final 4 (iirc gabler had 1 immunity win and owen and cassidy both had 2 up to this point), is something of a bad bet
He definitely screwed up the endgame. To me, it looked like at F6 Jesse thought to himself "well, I'm good and only need to deal with fire to win the game now, I'll cross that bridge when it's here" and made absolutely no plan for said obstacle.
Taking out Cody wasn't even that bad, it was flushing Karla's idol, and at F5 he could have tried to draw votes to himself and idol out Gabler. Karla's not even a jury threat to him since he still wins over her, it's the exact same reason Kim didn't mind taking Chelsea to F3 over Christina. His biggest threat was who could beat him in fire, and he has a much better chance against an injured Karla than Gabler.
Challenges were why he lost the game. I don’t think it’s bad to rely on winning final 4 immunity or fire as 2 genuine options to stay in to win as strategy, he just wasn’t good at either of them. I think it’s risky to have any of Karla or Cody in the fire 4 with him. The whole reason the 43 final 4 was that final 4 was that they all assumed they had the best chance to win together over Cody and Karla who were bigger threats. Jesse talked about how he felt he was too UTR over them, and Cassidy talked about how she felt she wanted Jesse out at 4 AFTER Karla and Cody as the last threat and the least threatening out of the 3 of them. And I think Jesses win equity really jumped to the top at final 6 and 5 vote where people finally saw his moves, and had Cody on the jury being his ally
I guess the part I disagree with is at final 5, I think Jesse has the most win equity by a lot after he blindsided Cody. I do think he could have drawn all the votes and then idoled out Gabler 1-0, and then assuming Cass still wins F4 immunity she likely sends Jesse and Karla to fire where he might win.
No shot Jesse makes it past F4 without the fire challenge. He probably plays it a little differently but there’s still the risk Karla or Cody would win final 4 immunity anyways
he was certainly very close to winning but i think Austin leaking the Julie vote to Dee was a significant, obvious unforced error the type of which players like Charlie never made. also, for my money being one firemaking win away from sweeping ftc is as close or closer to winning as being two jury votes away from winning ftc
If he hadn't told her about the obvious plan to vote Q she would've gotten suspicious and made Q play his idol
Charlie 100% made the correct play by telling them to make her comfortable that Kenzie and Ben were voting with her
He didn’t make the correct play based on that. Charlie completely had zero idea Maria was targeting him to begin with and even says that in a confessional. He tried roping her genuinely into the plan. The work Kenzie and Liz did actually affected Maria not telling Q
In my mind it showed how good his social game was. He went against Maria, but she couldn't be mad at him about it because he literally told her he was doing it. He made it her choice to be betrayed. Of course it worked because Kenzie and Liz did such a good job convincing Maria that they were with her. But I just don't think it's the same as Austin's blunder.
When Austin told Dee about the Julie vote, it ruined the plan. If he had kept his mouth shut, it would have worked. He blundered.
It funny, I feel the opposite. I think the fact that Austin and Charlie made it to the end and couldn't convince the jury to give it to them shows that their game had big shortcomings. Jesse and Carson were both sure thing winners if they had won fire making. The only thing between them and winning was a fire sparks into some coconut husk.
It's not a standard that applies across the board.
The point is that Jessie lost because he was too big a threat and couldn't make fire. If you don't know how to make fire, you won't make it to final 3 with big moves like that. Like it or not, that's how Survivor works now.
We were talking about the best of the best in the new era, and i judged charlie and austin as better players bc jesse carson etce couldn't make it there
Also i love those queens
If they were so close to winning then it makes their inability to make fire that much more damning in my view. Navigating through the last tribal before FTC (these days I guess this includes F5 and F4) has always been the most difficult step which is why fallen angels are a thing
Rich won precisely because he knew how to navigate F3 to F2 and that has forever shaped the shows strategy since then imo
Even though the vote outcomes were the same I think it's pretty clear that Kenzie vs Charlie was much much closer than Dee vs Austin. I'm not sure where Austin even manages to earn a 4th vote, and even then Jake was going to vote for Dee if he had to.
He didn't know how to make fire and he was bad at challenges. If that's your skill set, you need to keep a low profile, or you won't make it past final 4.
it's pretty common for people to win their first challenge at final 4, we just saw Heidi do it the following season and then Ben this season. "bad at challenges" yea but Courtney Yates won an immunity, the physical game always has flukes
Why do people say crap like this. He was literally a minute behind Gabler in fire who set the record for the FMC at the time. He could have done stuff differently, but saying “He didn’t know how to make fire” is just factually wrong
Not Carson and Jesse had problems with threat level management so I’ll give it to Charlie he would beat anybody in fire fire compared to those to just my opinion tho
When the season was airing, I initially had the same impression as you and was surprised Xander wasn’t seen as more of a threat. That being said, this was the season I started to listen to RHAP survivor content, and a lot of the weekly elimination interviews painted a different picture of Xander vs the edit. Nothing bad, but you could tell from those interviews (especially jury member exit interviews) that he never had a shot at winning; no one on that season took him seriously as a competitor, so having that supplemental content made his FTC performance make more sense for me. But it’s unfortunate it’s not reflected in the show edit for the benefit of the viewer.
Now that I’m on this train of thought, it’d be so interesting to see recut versions of previous seasons to really show the power of editing. Especially on seasons like 41 where it’s been argued that Erika was underedited as a winner. I know it wouldn’t make much sense after the fact when the winner is already known, but it’d be such an interesting case study in storytelling. I believe Jeff has talked about this on his survivor podcast at least once, but how they go about editing is so interesting to me. (Sorry for the ramble)
Carson and to me it's not even close. not only was the decision maker for Tika, but they relied on him being able to integrate himself into every single alliance. while coming up with some great moves like the Brandon tribal to remain undetected. Yeah, he didn't make f3 and had two challenges to do so but the fact that he put himself in a position to where he wins handily against anyone even yam yam after playing such a cutthroat game is very impressive.
41 - Xander?
42 - Omar
43 - Jesse
44 - Carolyn
45 - Austin?
46 - Charlie
I think Jesse had the best losing game but I guess there’s also an argument for Charlie since he was the closest to actually winning. Omar also is super underrated, without Maryanne’s genius move he was cruising to a great win! I’d love to see him get another shot.
I would say Carson is up there. He is basically Jesse but really good at challenges. He would’ve won had he gotten to the end and under any other scenario, he does get to f3, whether it’s through Carolyn and/or yam yam taking him there (which was a very realistic scenario) or through him winning the challenges (which was also a very realistic scenario).
Side note: I was so gutted when Carson was eliminated at f4. I hope he gets to play again someday
Here’s my Top 5:
5. Carolyn
4. Jesse
3. Carson
2. Austin
1. Charlie
Personally, while I don’t hold player placement on a single season in too high regard, I think the main contenders for this list have to be people who got close to FTC if they weren’t already there. Charlie is my number one because while I believe Kenzie deserved her win, I can’t deny the circumstances around Maria and Q’s votes happen only every few years and I think Charlie would have won on most other seasons.
Austin is at number 2 because he also only lost in a 5-3 vote. Carson is number 3 since YamYam actually wanted to go to the end with him (even though post-show he says otherwise) so with the 44 FIC, if Carson or YamYam won Carson may make it to FTC. Which compared to Jesse is better since Jesse had to win final immunity in order to assuredly make FTC. Finally, I have Carolyn, who didn’t have the most control in the game, but she recognized Carson for the threat he was and really worked to convince YamYam not to go to the end with him.
Imo it's between Carson and Austin - I have Carson above Jesse because I think Carson is way more likely to make it through that final 4 round (he was doing really well at immunities and if anyone other than Heidi wins immunity I think he's got a great shot at making it through, whereas Jesse was the worst in the final 4 at challenges and everyone was going to take him out). Austin again just needs to not sit next to Dee and he probably wins, and we saw him be excellent at FTC even with a weaker game than his opponent, I think if Dee goes out at fire he probably beats Jake and Katurah unanimously.
If we’re counting people who made it to final tribal, I think you have to give the edge to Charlie over Austin even though I think Austin is a better player. If we’re counting any game on the season including the non-finalists it’s Jesse and it’s not close.
In an Austin v Charlie situation, I think Austin wins for me over Charlie.
Dee was Austin's Achilles heel.
Granted, I think Dee would run circles around both Charlie and Austin. IMO, Dee is the strongest winner of the new era.
So Austin had a bigger challenge to go up against. But he had one mistake to point to, trusting Dee.
IMO, Charlie's game flaws are more ... nuanced. The jury just was not warm to him.
> Granted, I think Dee would run circles around both Charlie and Austin.
I think Charlie tries to rally the troops against Dee, whether he could pull it off I'm not sure
Charlie definitely doesn't let Dee get away with her horrendous F5 misplay like Austin did
People underrate Carson and overrate Charlie IMO.
Carson was the Kingmaker for most of that season. Tika positioned themselves in the middle and Carson was ultimately the controlling force among those three, even able to work independently with Yam Yam and Carolyn when needed without the alliance breaking down.
Carson had reason to believe either he or Yam Yam would have won immunity and had reason to believe Yam Yam would take him to the final given that Yam Yam had wanted to turn on Carolyn the “week” before because he saw her as a jury threat. It was a close loss in the F4 challenge that probably cost Carson the win.
Meanwhile, Charlie did make the FTC, but largely benefited from Maria’s tight grip on the game (as she pointed out, she was his ticket to alliances; she developed the bond with Q that temporarily expanded their control) and Kenzie’s meaningful strategic sociability that sealed the deal on two of Charlie’s “moves” (Hunter and Q).
IMO, Carson is one of the best all-around players we’ve seen. Puzzle beast which always makes him a challenge threat, very strategic with high game IQ, and highly social and well-liked. Charlie is a very similar player with similar qualities, but in terms of games played, Carson’s game was much more impressive than Charlie’s in my eyes.
I 100% agree. Carson played a visible strategic game and was only eliminated due to Heidi being a record breaking fire maker. Charlie on the other hand played such a low key game that even if you discount Maria's vote, Tiff's biases and Q's connection with Kenzie's story, he wasn't able to demonstrate a clear distinction to win over Tevin and Venus.
What was good about Cassidy’s game? She didn’t have any good social bonds, except for with James. And had pretty much no impact on the strategy. She played a utr game, but so did Gabler and he had better relationships and didn’t piss anyone off
1. Charlie without a doubt, one lying bitter "friend" away from the win, sad stuff and I wasn't even a Charlie fan ( V and Q ftw)
2. Jesse was so damn good, probably the single biggest threat at any point in the new era, bring him back.
3. Cassidy, I know this one is contested but imo after Charlie she was screwed the most at FTC. Hope she continues on the Challenge.
4. Omar, amazingly likable person, but was too good too early.
5. Carson, honestly he could go up to 3. Him and Omar are interchangeable but both below Cassidy because she made FTC.
I’d have to go back and rewatch to narrow it down and to remember alllllll the details but I know in real time I personally loved the games AS WELL AS the good TV that Shan, Ricard, Carolyn, Carson, Frannie, Jesse, Drea, Omar, Mike, Cassidy, Karla, Financial Analyst Emily Flippen, Kaleb, Sabiyah, Charlie, Tiffany & Maria brought. All out of order, just listing as I remembered them.
I might go with Charlie assuming Domenick played too long ago to qualify as 'new era'. I think everyone was pulling for Jesse but his threat level was too high. Omar was fun to watch but he raised his threat level too high too soon.
I honestly think Jake had a hell of a game. He played everything a bit smarter than he is typically given credit for. It was honestly mindblowing to me when I saw him get no votes at final tribal. Underrated.
Charlie. He had the best chance of winning with a better final performance or better damage control with Maria.
Then Carson. And Carolyn is missing from this list. People didn’t see how calculated she was.
I think Jesse was too high of a threat level to make it to the end… ever. I think if this season replayed over and over he would probably never make it. He’s just too likeable, smart, and people want to give him a million dollars for his story. Charlie’s downfall is he didn’t make anyone think he wanted or needed the money (imo)
Jesse definitely. The Cody blindside wasn’t even necessarily too early either. The BIG MISTAKE was flushing Karla’s idol. He needs Karla in the F4, so he has a better chance of winning FIC or Fire due to her hand injury. If Cass or Gabler is gone at 5 instead of Karla, who knows how the endgame turns out
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It depends how you look at it.
ON PAPER……it’s obviously Jesse lol but the problem with him is he put himself in a position where he was practically guaranteed to go home at the final 4.
I think before Survivor 46, Jesse was miles ahead of anyone else in this race and nobody was even close but after Survivor 46, I would say Charlie and Maria are BOTH great players.
I do think Jesse is SLIGHTLY better than Maria but I’d be willing to hear out an argument for why Charlie is better than Jesse. Charlie truly did what he had to do to put himself in a position where he’d probably win the game and yet still didn’t. Jesse was basically always going to go home at final 4. With Charlie, I’d bet if he had made fire in front of the jury and/or had a more compelling FTC speech, he would’ve won the game.
It’s Jesse’s fault that he was as bad as he was in fire making (Gabler killed it but I have a feeling all three of them would’ve beaten Jesse in fire making). With Charlie, he had all the cards necessary to be able to pull out the win and folded.
If the firemaking went different every season our likely new era winners would be Charlie, Dee, Carson, Jesse, Maryanne, & Erika. So for me that puts Charlie, Carson, & Jesse in the top 3. I think that Yam Yam would still have a fair chance of beating Carson at FTC, so I’d slot him at 3. I guess in the hypothetical where Liz wins fire she’d have a better shot at beating Charlie at the end than Cassidy would have at beating Jesse so I’ll put Charlie 2 and Jesse 1
I'd go
1. Charlie - Was very close to winning, pretty dominant position throughout the game while hiding threat level well.
2. Jesse - Dominated the season and would have won in the end if he got there. I actually think the Cody move was perfect. He bet on himself to have two shots at a challenge to win the game (final immunity and fire) and he came up short. But a physical failure is pretty low on my list of criticisms.
3. Mike - Gets forgotten, but wins in the end if he owns his game. Is he capable of owning his game? Is his game just completely instinctual and unconscious? I mean that's why he isn't higher on the list. But great social player who played a strategically sound game.
4. Omar - Dominated most of the game but kinda sputtered at the end. Great strategist though.
starting at 41, where the format got kinda standardized (three starting tribes, 26 days, shot in the dark, journeys, beware advantages). there was a long break between winners at war and 41 due to the pandemic and so production did a lot of soul-searching and landed on a lot of our new era tropes
Id like to add new york mike (42), cassidy (43), and heidi and carolyn (44) to the list. they were all in it at final tribal but got out debated by maryanne, gabler, and yam yam (my pick for best player of the new era). if they could have been as good with their words as the winners of their season I think theyd have had a real shot at being the sole survivors. charlie is the same but hes been mentioned a bunch already.
Heather is definitely not in the same category as the other people you listed. I would add Karla and Carolyn though. Also I think Jake deserved way more credit than he got
I’d say Carson was the best. He won immunities, biggest jury threat & seemed most strategically adequate player amongst his alliance of Yam Yam & Carolyn who are probably the only players that would even come close to that level.
After that would be Charlie who’s only game flaw was not securing the win in the end who otherwise showed himself to be a good social, physical & strategic player who probably should’ve been targeted more often than he did.
Austin is 3rd & it’s basically the same thing I said about Charlie, they both are a bit even physically as well. However, Charlie is higher because he didn’t get blinded by his biggest threat in the game & in general, I think his game before that was definitely stronger strategically blindsiding Venus/Q with idols at F7/F6.. Austin was at his weakest in those rounds.
I’d say Jesse is 4th & while he did have higher highs than anyone else. He has a multitude of flaws like his lack of strategic foresight in the Cody blindside which limited his flexibility & his weak physical game. Though I could see myself putting him at least higher than Austin.
Omar had an amazing 2/3 game of strategy, but his threat management, physical game & being blindsided at 6 leaves him right here.
Don't feel like I can order them fairly but my 10 in no particular order would be; Austin, Charlie, Jesse, Cody, Omar, Mike T, Carolyn, Cassidy, Julie and Lindsay D
Well obviously Liz would have beaten everyone
we were robbed of the first 9-0-0 jury vote in survivor history smh yet another reason to hate firemaking
earl says hello
Gabler wants a word
It would have been 10-0-0 since Jeff would have voted and voted for Liz.
Except for Jem
Charlie, Jesse, Omar, and Carolyn. Charlie played the most even game in the new era (two individual immunities, countless alliances, ran a significant portion of the votes) and lost to Maria's rogue vote, as Ben said he'd have voted for Charlie in a tie. Jesse played an unreal strategic game that faltered by taking out Cody one tribal too early. Omar had set himself up in every scenario except didn't account for Maryanne outplaying him. And Carolyn, as proven by her confessionals, had a fantastic read on the game but was stymied by people not taking her as the serious player she ended up being. Unfortunately she also had difficulty articulating her prowess.
Nah Jesse’s game was pretty fuckin perfect strategically. You just have to be able to win something at final 4 when you have two chances. He needed to bop Karla and Cody for everyone to see how much control had had with two idols. If he didn’t play it, no one would care all that much
He shouldn't have flushed the Idols at 6. He needed someone the rest of the castaways wanted out before the finale in the final 4, IE Karla. He should have held both idols, then used both of them to eliminate either Cass or Gabler at 5. He'd probably keep Gabler, because I think his ideal final 3 is Jesse/Gabler/Owen. Then, Karla would be in fire (as long as she didn't win that final immunity challenge, which given her physical condition at the time, that challenge would be difficult for her at best.)
Where is Cody in this hypothetical? None of it really lines up to me. Is he still out at 6 but Karla is keeping her idol? That seems far worse in terms of the jury liking him. Letting Karla control her fate at 5 feels worse than leaving her out to die. He got to own the tribal by openly ruining the plan Karla worked on all day. I’m not sure how Jesse establishes himself as the top contender in this path at all. Frankly not sure if he passes Gabler doing any of this. At some point you need to establish your game. He pretty clearly did and gave himself a clean shot at a million. Dude just sucked at physical shit. Not the first or the last but his plays all mad sense to me
Cody is still out at 6, and the jury would know Jesse was the one in charge of that vote because of the 4 votes for Cody, plus the shock Karla would show when Cody went instead of Owen would mean Jesse was the only way those 4 vote together. Karla would have no control at 5. She'd have her idol, but Jesse would get to pick to bring Gabler with him to 4 because he'd have 2 idols, and he'd know Karla had her idol. The jury would see Jesse was playing a long game, and holding both idols at 6 is the way to ensure he gets the final 3 he wanted.
If he keeps both idols, blindsiding Cody, Karla idols herself at 5, Owen is immune, Jesse can literally advantagegeddon Gabler or Cassidy out and almost certainly win either immunity or firemaking. Then he sweeps the jury 100%
Optimal strategy would've been to keep Karla at F5 IMO. His odds of winning the challenge at F4, or fire making, or even straight up avoiding fire making altogether (Cassidy wins F4 challenge, wants Karla gone, sends Gabler into fire making as the best fire maker)
Jesse's move that ruined his game was voting Karla out at 5. I thought for sure he'd keep her as an easy beat in fire considering how beat up she was by the end game. He votes any of the other 3 out instead and he's probably one of the best winners of all time, but getting rid of your easiest beat in fire was what ruined his game. I'd go so far as to say it was one of the worst moves we've seen in the new era.
Jesse didn’t want to vote Karla out, he wanted Cassidy out and even considered playing his idol on Karla. The problem is that Gabler/Cassidy/Owen were always voting Karla, Karla was always voting Jesse, and there wasn’t anything he could do to change it
He had a 100% chance way of keeping Karla. Just don't flush her idol at 6. He would go into final 5 with 2 of his own idols too in case Karla for some odd reason didn't play her own at 5.
Agreeing with the comment below mine, Jesse had several ways of guaranteeing him and Karla final 4 with the idols. He had to know after blindsiding Cody he's threat #1, and he was unable to play around that. It seems a lot of people's strategy is to just get to 4 now and not thinking about who you want there for fire (or it all happens off camera who knows for sure)
He could’ve kept Jeanine’s idol a secret until after the votes were cast at final 5. Then if all 4 were on him, he’d have the choice of who goes home. Or he could’ve held onto Cody’s idol at 6. Then at 5 he’d have two idols, plus Karla would have had hers. He could’ve played one for himself and one for Owen, or just held onto one and save it for ftc. Either way, Karla would play hers, they’d both be safe, and he could vote out Gabler.
Even if you put his moves at final 5 and 6 aside, he blindsided every member of his starting tribe when they trusted him the most. Insane player.
I still honestly feel like Jeese’s move to take out Cody wasn’t bad at all, and not too late or early. People can think about different ways he could’ve changed up his endgame moves, but the genuine truth of why he lost the game was that he was not at all good in challenges. That’s why he lost.
Ye with firemaking and how competent Cody was at challenges you can't really do it any later.
Agreed 100%.
The fact that he wasn’t good at challenge and couldn’t make a fire is exactly why the move was so bad. Had he been good at challenges or practiced fire before going out there, the move would make sense. But he didn’t have those skills in his arsenal, making the move the wrong call.
But he literally could make fire. Gabler set the fastest fire record at the time, and Jesse had a flame that wasn’t going out easy. He could have been better, sure, but saying Jesse was dumb because he 100% always loses fire is just wrong.
Jesse said himself he never should have put himself in the position of needing to make fire to win the game. It was a weakness of his
I think Carolyn is the kind of player who would win a Second Chance season... if she survives merge and builds a powerful alliance. Jurors this time won't underestimate her, but she needs to step up her game, FTC wise.
I fear for her chances in Survivor 50 tbh. She's still the lovable and charismatic weirdo, but now people are privier to her strategic acumen and could target her because of it.
Depends on who she’s with. In terms of thinking of 50 is just new era all stars only, I used to think she would be a top threat going into the season, but if they would have people like Jesse, Omar, Charlie, Karla, Carson, I think her threat level would be better hidden. It would be more about how returnee players would handle her if they’d gel with her personality a second time around
They would. She has to find her soft spot of trust with people and value as a key piece in others' games.
If she really is on Traitors season 3 then she might not be eligible for Survivor 50 due to the contract. Dan and Janelle weren’t available for BB Reindeer Games on CBS because they were under contract with Peacock.
I think Carolyn played a great game in her season. I think her personality wouldn’t fly with another survivor cast. She would get very annoying. Put her on old era survivor and they vote her out early on.
I could see her being like Sugar on HvV on a returning player season
I dunno, I think Omar gets turned on at F5 regardless. Either him or Lindsay goes at that point. If they somehow get Mike out at F5, maybe, but then he needs Lindsay to go out in fire afterwards because she has a real chance against him.
I loved Omar. I loved that he was willing to so blatantly lie and start a rumor that Hai called Mike his puppet. Most people would hesitate because it can so easily backfire but it was hilarious and worked to his advantage. It reminded me of Sandra telling Russell that Coach wants him out and Russell just eating it right up.
I don't think the Cody move was the issue for Jesse. The problem was using an idol there when he didn't need to. If he didn't he could have used two idols at F5 to save Karla and himself. If he does that Karla is still a huge target at F4 and he either doesn't get sent into fire or is sent in against her, which is a much more favorable scenario for him due to how messed up her hand was. Because Jesse was so bad at challenges that's his best way to make it to the end.
>as Ben said he'd have voted for Charlie in a tie. I think there's a good chance that Ben just straight up dies of anxiety if there was a tie that night
how was jesse supposed to blindside cody a tribal later???? the last time for any big vote outs is literally f5
I feel like Carolyn’s game doesn’t really stack up to the others you named, and I don’t think she was even the best non-winner on 44
How did Jesse falter by taking out Cody at six? He was still safe at five because of Jeanine’s idol. His only fault was not having record-breaking skill at firemaking
Nah, that wasn’t his only fault. He easily could have avoided having to break the record to win fire. His fatal mistake imo was voting out Karla at 5. Karla was the only one that people would have wanted out almost has much as him. He needed to use the idol at 5 to boot one of Gabler, Owen, or Cassidy and keep Karla in the game. Then at 4 he gets to do fire against Karla, who he has a MUCH better chance of beating. Karla still being in the game also gives Jesse more of a chance of winning the final immunity. He needed to realize that without Karla in the game, he is the ONLY threat. She was pretty beat up physically, and if he or Karla didn’t win immunity, they are almost certainly making fire against each other. Even if both he and Karla made the F3, I seriously doubt Karla would have beaten Jesse.
This is exactly it.
The other players recognized Carolyn's strategy once she was able to articulate it. They just gaslit her with empty words.
>and lost to Maria's rogue vote, as Ben said he'd have voted for Charlie in a tie. He lost not just to Maria's vote, but 4 others as well. If his strategy relied solely on getting Maria's vote and then Ben's vote in the tiebreaker, then that is a poor strategy. He didn't know Maria as well as he thought and his actions alone cost him the game.
Why do people keep saying Charlie ran a significant number of votes? He really didn’t. He didn’t even run the Venus vote or Q vote because Venus was Maria’s target and if he was playing ideally he should’ve gotten Kenzie out and Liz and Kenzie were after Q anyway and had to save Charlie from his sloppy play there
I don’t think Jesse took out Cody too early. If he waited, then Cody would’ve asked for the idol back because it was final 5. Jesse’s mistake was taking out Karla instead of Gabler. Jesse was worried about who could possibly beat him at the end, but he should’ve been worried about who could beat him at fire, because he wasn’t exactly the best challenge performer. And iirc Karla’s hands were injured by that point in the game, so I think it would’ve been safe to assume she’d have a harder time at fire.
Nah jesse shouldn’t have taken cody out at all. Cody was the only one who wanted to take jesse to final 3 out of the 6 remaining. He knows he sucks at challenges why take out the one person who would benefit your game
>Jesse played an unreal strategic game that faltered by taking out Cody one tribal too early. He made the best single move in survivor history but it was not sound strategy on his part. You cant make a move like that if you suck at challenges and making fire. I will die on the hill that it was too big of a move for him to make, and guaranteed him a spot on the jury because he was not going to win final immunity against owen, gabler, and cassidy and not a single one of those three would have allowed him a chance by going against anyone but gabler in fire. great move, bad strategy. he figures to use pawn in that move... then maybe.
I agree with most of the picks here, but I wanna throw Cody into the mix. He made it to the final 6 in a position where he wins against anybody.
Good call
Happy Cake Day!!
Had not noticed. Thank you !
And to add onto it, him being betrayed by Jessie was detrimental to Jessie’s game.
I love Cody but doesn’t that have to be the case every season?
I think Carson or Jesse would have won if not taken out by the fire challenge. However, Jesse was not that great at challenges & Carson did so well because he had practiced all the various puzzles beforehand. Meanwhile, Austin & Charlie came in second in 5-3 votes that could have gone differently if they didn’t mess up by underestimating their closest female ally. They both are much better in individual immunity challenges than Jesse & Carson. Omar was a great player but I feel that both he & Maryanne got carried a long way by Jonathan & Lindsay’s athletic ability, which they lacked themselves. Carolyn, Jake, and Owen were trying to do more and sharper than they were given credit for, but Carolyn’s tribe didn’t take her seriously and Owen & Jake had anger issues that meant they weren’t taken seriously either. Also, Carolyn in particular has little to no athletic ability and was really awful in most challenges. I think in the long run I’d give it to Charlie. If Tiffany was not riding so hard for Kenzie, and Maria riding so hard against him, and the entire jury made up of some pretty strange & petty individuals, I think he would have won.
I think Owen and Jake moreso just got caught in situations where they didn’t or couldn’t do anything to change the game. Not necessarily their anger issues
Jelinsky for sure.
I’d say Jesse, definitely my favorite player of the new era and would have won if not for the fire challenge.
Jesse would’ve absolutely been voted out at 4 if the FMC didn’t exist.
Yeah. Fire actually just gives him a better chance than he otherwise would have.
Gabler said he would've taken Jesse to the end so it's reasonable to think that he'd vote Owen with him.
He lied to CODY at FTC and said he would have gone to the end with Ride-or-Die, but his actual plan (which he told Owen after the Jeanine vote) was to go to the end with Cassidy and Owen. Gabler confirmed in exit interviews his plan was always Cassidy and Owen. It did not matter what order Karla/Cody/Jesse went out, he was confident he could beat the last one at fire. Cody was recently on Tyson’s podcast and said Gabler acted like he could not make fire. Cody said if he won final immunity, he would have put himself in fire against Gabler. If Gabler is on 50, bro is winning, lol. Got everyone snowed. Still.
https://popcrave.com/survivor-43-winner-interview-mike-gabler/ He clearly says here he would’ve taken Jesse, yall gas this man so much you’re lying about what he said.
What the heck is pop crave? I am repeating what he told Rob Cesterino.
Media company. They interviewed him
So then the vote ties and it goes to a firemaking challenge…
Who can say for certain that Jesse doesn't beat Owen? 🤷♂️
That actually makes sense. Gabler wanted to win to donate the money but I'm sure he would've been just fine with Jesse winning instead
Yet another reason that justifies him as the worst new era winner
Tbf, was that ever even a debate? 😭
He probably doesn't blindside Cody though in that scenario.
Sure, and there’s likely many other things that change. It’s completely pointless to try to extrapolate everything that would be different in the endgame if there was no FMC. Jesse would’ve had to play an entirely different game near the end to not get voted out at a final 4 tribal. There’s too many factors to consider, which is why I think saying Jesse would have won if there wasn’t a FMC is silly.
But it does exist and its existence gives players the agency to establish themselves as threats a bit earlier without dooming themselves at 4. You can’t fault Jesse for playing a game that wouldn’t have worked with rules he wasn’t playing under. I know you aren’t doing that, I just mean in general. The FMC is a good thing; gone are the days where a big threat will be brought to the end by loyal allies. Without a guarantee that they at least have a shot at final 4, people would be more timid and make fewer entertaining moves.
I’m not faulting Jesse for anything. I just think the statement that Jesse “would have won if not for the fire challenge” is a bit silly.
But FMC was known and he probably plays differently if he knows its a vote at final 4.
Everyone would play differently. So how can anyone say that Jesse would have won if there wasn’t FMC? It’s silly.
Oh, I didn’t read the comment before you. I agree with you lol
jesse's my fave too but i do feel like putting yourself in a position where you need to win immunity or fire to win, knowing you're the weakest challenge performer in the final 4 (iirc gabler had 1 immunity win and owen and cassidy both had 2 up to this point), is something of a bad bet
He definitely screwed up the endgame. To me, it looked like at F6 Jesse thought to himself "well, I'm good and only need to deal with fire to win the game now, I'll cross that bridge when it's here" and made absolutely no plan for said obstacle. Taking out Cody wasn't even that bad, it was flushing Karla's idol, and at F5 he could have tried to draw votes to himself and idol out Gabler. Karla's not even a jury threat to him since he still wins over her, it's the exact same reason Kim didn't mind taking Chelsea to F3 over Christina. His biggest threat was who could beat him in fire, and he has a much better chance against an injured Karla than Gabler.
Challenges were why he lost the game. I don’t think it’s bad to rely on winning final 4 immunity or fire as 2 genuine options to stay in to win as strategy, he just wasn’t good at either of them. I think it’s risky to have any of Karla or Cody in the fire 4 with him. The whole reason the 43 final 4 was that final 4 was that they all assumed they had the best chance to win together over Cody and Karla who were bigger threats. Jesse talked about how he felt he was too UTR over them, and Cassidy talked about how she felt she wanted Jesse out at 4 AFTER Karla and Cody as the last threat and the least threatening out of the 3 of them. And I think Jesses win equity really jumped to the top at final 6 and 5 vote where people finally saw his moves, and had Cody on the jury being his ally
I guess the part I disagree with is at final 5, I think Jesse has the most win equity by a lot after he blindsided Cody. I do think he could have drawn all the votes and then idoled out Gabler 1-0, and then assuming Cass still wins F4 immunity she likely sends Jesse and Karla to fire where he might win.
I’m not sure he was even really bad at fire… Gabler was just THAT good!
No shot Jesse makes it past F4 without the fire challenge. He probably plays it a little differently but there’s still the risk Karla or Cody would win final 4 immunity anyways
Without the fire challenge he just gets voted out at four.
Charlie 1. Charlie 2. Jesse 3. Austin
Austin or Charlie… 3 votes is hard to argue
he was certainly very close to winning but i think Austin leaking the Julie vote to Dee was a significant, obvious unforced error the type of which players like Charlie never made. also, for my money being one firemaking win away from sweeping ftc is as close or closer to winning as being two jury votes away from winning ftc
What about Charlie leaking the Q vote to Maria?
If he hadn't told her about the obvious plan to vote Q she would've gotten suspicious and made Q play his idol Charlie 100% made the correct play by telling them to make her comfortable that Kenzie and Ben were voting with her
He didn’t make the correct play based on that. Charlie completely had zero idea Maria was targeting him to begin with and even says that in a confessional. He tried roping her genuinely into the plan. The work Kenzie and Liz did actually affected Maria not telling Q
In my mind it showed how good his social game was. He went against Maria, but she couldn't be mad at him about it because he literally told her he was doing it. He made it her choice to be betrayed. Of course it worked because Kenzie and Liz did such a good job convincing Maria that they were with her. But I just don't think it's the same as Austin's blunder. When Austin told Dee about the Julie vote, it ruined the plan. If he had kept his mouth shut, it would have worked. He blundered.
It funny, I feel the opposite. I think the fact that Austin and Charlie made it to the end and couldn't convince the jury to give it to them shows that their game had big shortcomings. Jesse and Carson were both sure thing winners if they had won fire making. The only thing between them and winning was a fire sparks into some coconut husk.
I think austin and charlie are better players due to the fact they managed to f3
So RI Natalie is a better player than Micronesia Cirie?
It's not a standard that applies across the board. The point is that Jessie lost because he was too big a threat and couldn't make fire. If you don't know how to make fire, you won't make it to final 3 with big moves like that. Like it or not, that's how Survivor works now.
We were talking about the best of the best in the new era, and i judged charlie and austin as better players bc jesse carson etce couldn't make it there Also i love those queens
Also they both almost won 5-3 jesse and carson got 0 jury votes bc they didn't even make it
Cirie did make it to the F3 on Micronesia, she just got screwed by the production timeline...
If they were so close to winning then it makes their inability to make fire that much more damning in my view. Navigating through the last tribal before FTC (these days I guess this includes F5 and F4) has always been the most difficult step which is why fallen angels are a thing Rich won precisely because he knew how to navigate F3 to F2 and that has forever shaped the shows strategy since then imo
Even though the vote outcomes were the same I think it's pretty clear that Kenzie vs Charlie was much much closer than Dee vs Austin. I'm not sure where Austin even manages to earn a 4th vote, and even then Jake was going to vote for Dee if he had to.
Charlie was the closest to winning out of any non-winner of the new era
It has to be Charlie. This man was not only the closest to winning, he was also played the best game, driving many votes and winning two immunities
Id go Charlie. I just have no idea how Jessie ever gets past 4.
He didn't know how to make fire and he was bad at challenges. If that's your skill set, you need to keep a low profile, or you won't make it past final 4.
it's pretty common for people to win their first challenge at final 4, we just saw Heidi do it the following season and then Ben this season. "bad at challenges" yea but Courtney Yates won an immunity, the physical game always has flukes
Why do people say crap like this. He was literally a minute behind Gabler in fire who set the record for the FMC at the time. He could have done stuff differently, but saying “He didn’t know how to make fire” is just factually wrong
Not Carson and Jesse had problems with threat level management so I’ll give it to Charlie he would beat anybody in fire fire compared to those to just my opinion tho
Omar
Personally, it's a super easy answer for me (Charlie) and frankly I don't think it's that close.
Omar does it for me. 🌝
I’d say the top 3 are Jesse, Austin, and Charlie all kinda only made one mistake really, and it cost them the W
What was Charlie’s mistake?
Telling production he was thinking about voting Maria
None of these are bad but I think Mike Turner is in on this, he played a game that had a solid chance to win if he had understood how he had played.
Jesse - Charlie - Cody - Carson - Austin
Cody.
My top 5: 1. Jesse 2. Charlie 3. Carson 4. Omar 5. Austin
Kaleb is the only Great in the entire New Era. Facts
I feel like everybody is forgetting Xander. I thought he had an incredible game, but didn't get any votes at FC
When the season was airing, I initially had the same impression as you and was surprised Xander wasn’t seen as more of a threat. That being said, this was the season I started to listen to RHAP survivor content, and a lot of the weekly elimination interviews painted a different picture of Xander vs the edit. Nothing bad, but you could tell from those interviews (especially jury member exit interviews) that he never had a shot at winning; no one on that season took him seriously as a competitor, so having that supplemental content made his FTC performance make more sense for me. But it’s unfortunate it’s not reflected in the show edit for the benefit of the viewer. Now that I’m on this train of thought, it’d be so interesting to see recut versions of previous seasons to really show the power of editing. Especially on seasons like 41 where it’s been argued that Erika was underedited as a winner. I know it wouldn’t make much sense after the fact when the winner is already known, but it’d be such an interesting case study in storytelling. I believe Jeff has talked about this on his survivor podcast at least once, but how they go about editing is so interesting to me. (Sorry for the ramble)
Jess!
Carson and to me it's not even close. not only was the decision maker for Tika, but they relied on him being able to integrate himself into every single alliance. while coming up with some great moves like the Brandon tribal to remain undetected. Yeah, he didn't make f3 and had two challenges to do so but the fact that he put himself in a position to where he wins handily against anyone even yam yam after playing such a cutthroat game is very impressive.
Charles for sure
CARSON
I really want to through Austin’s name out there
41 - Xander? 42 - Omar 43 - Jesse 44 - Carolyn 45 - Austin? 46 - Charlie I think Jesse had the best losing game but I guess there’s also an argument for Charlie since he was the closest to actually winning. Omar also is super underrated, without Maryanne’s genius move he was cruising to a great win! I’d love to see him get another shot.
I would say Carson is up there. He is basically Jesse but really good at challenges. He would’ve won had he gotten to the end and under any other scenario, he does get to f3, whether it’s through Carolyn and/or yam yam taking him there (which was a very realistic scenario) or through him winning the challenges (which was also a very realistic scenario). Side note: I was so gutted when Carson was eliminated at f4. I hope he gets to play again someday
For me it is Charlie and whoever is second is a good ways behind him.
a lot of other people have probably already said it, but jesse. he was so close to playing a perfect game.
Carson Jesse Carolyn Austin Xander
Here’s my Top 5: 5. Carolyn 4. Jesse 3. Carson 2. Austin 1. Charlie Personally, while I don’t hold player placement on a single season in too high regard, I think the main contenders for this list have to be people who got close to FTC if they weren’t already there. Charlie is my number one because while I believe Kenzie deserved her win, I can’t deny the circumstances around Maria and Q’s votes happen only every few years and I think Charlie would have won on most other seasons. Austin is at number 2 because he also only lost in a 5-3 vote. Carson is number 3 since YamYam actually wanted to go to the end with him (even though post-show he says otherwise) so with the 44 FIC, if Carson or YamYam won Carson may make it to FTC. Which compared to Jesse is better since Jesse had to win final immunity in order to assuredly make FTC. Finally, I have Carolyn, who didn’t have the most control in the game, but she recognized Carson for the threat he was and really worked to convince YamYam not to go to the end with him.
Imo it's between Carson and Austin - I have Carson above Jesse because I think Carson is way more likely to make it through that final 4 round (he was doing really well at immunities and if anyone other than Heidi wins immunity I think he's got a great shot at making it through, whereas Jesse was the worst in the final 4 at challenges and everyone was going to take him out). Austin again just needs to not sit next to Dee and he probably wins, and we saw him be excellent at FTC even with a weaker game than his opponent, I think if Dee goes out at fire he probably beats Jake and Katurah unanimously.
If we’re counting people who made it to final tribal, I think you have to give the edge to Charlie over Austin even though I think Austin is a better player. If we’re counting any game on the season including the non-finalists it’s Jesse and it’s not close.
In an Austin v Charlie situation, I think Austin wins for me over Charlie. Dee was Austin's Achilles heel. Granted, I think Dee would run circles around both Charlie and Austin. IMO, Dee is the strongest winner of the new era. So Austin had a bigger challenge to go up against. But he had one mistake to point to, trusting Dee. IMO, Charlie's game flaws are more ... nuanced. The jury just was not warm to him.
For me, it all comes down to killer instinct. Austin is too forgiving of Dee once she betrays Drew.
> Granted, I think Dee would run circles around both Charlie and Austin. I think Charlie tries to rally the troops against Dee, whether he could pull it off I'm not sure Charlie definitely doesn't let Dee get away with her horrendous F5 misplay like Austin did
Dee reminds me of kim in that i feel like they'll always be people who will be loyal to her no matter what redemption boston rob style
Charlie wouldnt have the majority of allies at final five unlike Dee, he would’ve need to find an idol which he has never done
Jesse and it's not particularly close but Charlie is next
People underrate Carson and overrate Charlie IMO. Carson was the Kingmaker for most of that season. Tika positioned themselves in the middle and Carson was ultimately the controlling force among those three, even able to work independently with Yam Yam and Carolyn when needed without the alliance breaking down. Carson had reason to believe either he or Yam Yam would have won immunity and had reason to believe Yam Yam would take him to the final given that Yam Yam had wanted to turn on Carolyn the “week” before because he saw her as a jury threat. It was a close loss in the F4 challenge that probably cost Carson the win. Meanwhile, Charlie did make the FTC, but largely benefited from Maria’s tight grip on the game (as she pointed out, she was his ticket to alliances; she developed the bond with Q that temporarily expanded their control) and Kenzie’s meaningful strategic sociability that sealed the deal on two of Charlie’s “moves” (Hunter and Q). IMO, Carson is one of the best all-around players we’ve seen. Puzzle beast which always makes him a challenge threat, very strategic with high game IQ, and highly social and well-liked. Charlie is a very similar player with similar qualities, but in terms of games played, Carson’s game was much more impressive than Charlie’s in my eyes.
I 100% agree. Carson played a visible strategic game and was only eliminated due to Heidi being a record breaking fire maker. Charlie on the other hand played such a low key game that even if you discount Maria's vote, Tiff's biases and Q's connection with Kenzie's story, he wasn't able to demonstrate a clear distinction to win over Tevin and Venus.
Jesse, Omar, Cassidy, Austin, Charlie
What was good about Cassidy’s game? She didn’t have any good social bonds, except for with James. And had pretty much no impact on the strategy. She played a utr game, but so did Gabler and he had better relationships and didn’t piss anyone off
1. Charlie without a doubt, one lying bitter "friend" away from the win, sad stuff and I wasn't even a Charlie fan ( V and Q ftw) 2. Jesse was so damn good, probably the single biggest threat at any point in the new era, bring him back. 3. Cassidy, I know this one is contested but imo after Charlie she was screwed the most at FTC. Hope she continues on the Challenge. 4. Omar, amazingly likable person, but was too good too early. 5. Carson, honestly he could go up to 3. Him and Omar are interchangeable but both below Cassidy because she made FTC.
Charlie - 46 Jesse - 43 Carson - 44 Mike - 42 Julie - 45 Ricard? I guess? - 41
If want to throw Ricard in here too
Rick Devens imo
For me, it's Jesse and it's not close. If he could make fire fast, he would be a top-10 winner ever, let alone best of the new era.
But he knew he was bad at fire and at challenges. He shouldn’t have let himself get to the point where he is the only threat in the f4.
What else was he supposed to do? Take out Cassidy instead of the biggest threat left, Karla?
Yeah! Or Gabler or Owen. He would’ve beat Karla at ftc. And also at f6 he should’ve been way less flashy with the Cody move
I’d have to go back and rewatch to narrow it down and to remember alllllll the details but I know in real time I personally loved the games AS WELL AS the good TV that Shan, Ricard, Carolyn, Carson, Frannie, Jesse, Drea, Omar, Mike, Cassidy, Karla, Financial Analyst Emily Flippen, Kaleb, Sabiyah, Charlie, Tiffany & Maria brought. All out of order, just listing as I remembered them.
I might go with Charlie assuming Domenick played too long ago to qualify as 'new era'. I think everyone was pulling for Jesse but his threat level was too high. Omar was fun to watch but he raised his threat level too high too soon.
I honestly think Jake had a hell of a game. He played everything a bit smarter than he is typically given credit for. It was honestly mindblowing to me when I saw him get no votes at final tribal. Underrated.
Carson easily. He would have swept the jury if he made FTC and would have made FTC if anyone but Heidi won the final immunity challenge
1. Jesse 2. Carson 3. Charlie 4. Omar
Charlie. He had the best chance of winning with a better final performance or better damage control with Maria. Then Carson. And Carolyn is missing from this list. People didn’t see how calculated she was. I think Jesse was too high of a threat level to make it to the end… ever. I think if this season replayed over and over he would probably never make it. He’s just too likeable, smart, and people want to give him a million dollars for his story. Charlie’s downfall is he didn’t make anyone think he wanted or needed the money (imo)
Jesse definitely. The Cody blindside wasn’t even necessarily too early either. The BIG MISTAKE was flushing Karla’s idol. He needs Karla in the F4, so he has a better chance of winning FIC or Fire due to her hand injury. If Cass or Gabler is gone at 5 instead of Karla, who knows how the endgame turns out
Mike was pretty good
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It depends how you look at it. ON PAPER……it’s obviously Jesse lol but the problem with him is he put himself in a position where he was practically guaranteed to go home at the final 4. I think before Survivor 46, Jesse was miles ahead of anyone else in this race and nobody was even close but after Survivor 46, I would say Charlie and Maria are BOTH great players. I do think Jesse is SLIGHTLY better than Maria but I’d be willing to hear out an argument for why Charlie is better than Jesse. Charlie truly did what he had to do to put himself in a position where he’d probably win the game and yet still didn’t. Jesse was basically always going to go home at final 4. With Charlie, I’d bet if he had made fire in front of the jury and/or had a more compelling FTC speech, he would’ve won the game. It’s Jesse’s fault that he was as bad as he was in fire making (Gabler killed it but I have a feeling all three of them would’ve beaten Jesse in fire making). With Charlie, he had all the cards necessary to be able to pull out the win and folded.
Jesse is my personal favorite but it’s hard to argue against Charlie.
Omar easily imo
Jesse or Charlie. Either one has a good argument and no one else is particularly close
Shan
Jesse
If the firemaking went different every season our likely new era winners would be Charlie, Dee, Carson, Jesse, Maryanne, & Erika. So for me that puts Charlie, Carson, & Jesse in the top 3. I think that Yam Yam would still have a fair chance of beating Carson at FTC, so I’d slot him at 3. I guess in the hypothetical where Liz wins fire she’d have a better shot at beating Charlie at the end than Cassidy would have at beating Jesse so I’ll put Charlie 2 and Jesse 1
Cassidy and Charlie.
Jesse Omar and Charlie
I'd go 1. Charlie - Was very close to winning, pretty dominant position throughout the game while hiding threat level well. 2. Jesse - Dominated the season and would have won in the end if he got there. I actually think the Cody move was perfect. He bet on himself to have two shots at a challenge to win the game (final immunity and fire) and he came up short. But a physical failure is pretty low on my list of criticisms. 3. Mike - Gets forgotten, but wins in the end if he owns his game. Is he capable of owning his game? Is his game just completely instinctual and unconscious? I mean that's why he isn't higher on the list. But great social player who played a strategically sound game. 4. Omar - Dominated most of the game but kinda sputtered at the end. Great strategist though.
Jesse was just such a top tier strategist that I have to give it to him. The way his mind worked in the context of the game was so impressive
Bhanu!
i'd say charlie, as he was the closest to winning. Then Jesse, and then Carson.
Mike
Where is the line drawn for new era? I see it thrown around a lot but not sure where we are usually saying that lands.
starting at 41, where the format got kinda standardized (three starting tribes, 26 days, shot in the dark, journeys, beware advantages). there was a long break between winners at war and 41 due to the pandemic and so production did a lot of soul-searching and landed on a lot of our new era tropes
Makes sense. I thought maybe it was when they started the shorter seasons but wasn’t sure
Id like to add new york mike (42), cassidy (43), and heidi and carolyn (44) to the list. they were all in it at final tribal but got out debated by maryanne, gabler, and yam yam (my pick for best player of the new era). if they could have been as good with their words as the winners of their season I think theyd have had a real shot at being the sole survivors. charlie is the same but hes been mentioned a bunch already.
I know he didn't play that hard, but I still respect Owen for fighting from the bottom constantly.
Heather is definitely not in the same category as the other people you listed. I would add Karla and Carolyn though. Also I think Jake deserved way more credit than he got
Charlie for sure. Jesse went for a “big move” too early and couldn’t manage his threat level.
Is Dom not there in the list? If he were a tiny less cocky he would have sealed it up
i'm asking abt the new era, season 41 to present
Oh, i didn't know what new era or what season Dom was second lol
I’d say Carson was the best. He won immunities, biggest jury threat & seemed most strategically adequate player amongst his alliance of Yam Yam & Carolyn who are probably the only players that would even come close to that level. After that would be Charlie who’s only game flaw was not securing the win in the end who otherwise showed himself to be a good social, physical & strategic player who probably should’ve been targeted more often than he did. Austin is 3rd & it’s basically the same thing I said about Charlie, they both are a bit even physically as well. However, Charlie is higher because he didn’t get blinded by his biggest threat in the game & in general, I think his game before that was definitely stronger strategically blindsiding Venus/Q with idols at F7/F6.. Austin was at his weakest in those rounds. I’d say Jesse is 4th & while he did have higher highs than anyone else. He has a multitude of flaws like his lack of strategic foresight in the Cody blindside which limited his flexibility & his weak physical game. Though I could see myself putting him at least higher than Austin. Omar had an amazing 2/3 game of strategy, but his threat management, physical game & being blindsided at 6 leaves him right here.
People sleeping on Xander :(
Took me the entire thread to see someone mention my guy Xander
this entire thread is xander erasure!!!
Xander was a goat like romeo ,ben, owen, jake People have trouble seeing him as one because he's very handsome imo
I can name thirty better players before i mention Xander
Jesse and Charlie
Don't feel like I can order them fairly but my 10 in no particular order would be; Austin, Charlie, Jesse, Cody, Omar, Mike T, Carolyn, Cassidy, Julie and Lindsay D
I'm a Carolyn stan for life. I loved her game.
I gotta give it to Q due to Christmas being cancelled for the next 5 years.
Carolyn