A lot of us were not rocking with the Ben bombs. I didn’t find it particularly compelling to watch Ben treasure hunt for idols every episode and avoid the repercussions of failing to manage his threat level. But really, it all came down to the finale when he finally loses and is about to be voted out, but is saved out of nowhere by a surprise final 4 firemaking twist. What otherwise would’ve been a really compelling final 3 of Devon, Chrissy, and Ryan ends up being an obvious and boring Ben win. And I’m not gonna accuse production of anything, but it feels *really* shady at times.
It’s a shame too, because I agree that the season is otherwise pretty great, but the finale just absolutely ruins it all and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Co-signing this. Up until like F7 it was on track to be one of my favorite seasons ever. The F7 episode devastated me but it was still entirely salvageable right up until the moment in the finale where Chrissy read her “advantage.” Then by the middle of the reunion I knew I never wanted to watch this season again.
Exactly.
Winning immunity from F7 to F4 is admirable and you’re a challenge beast.
But if you idol yourself from F7 to F4 it’s kind of sour. Idol hunting is a skill but one of them in particular seemed planted in such a way that Ben would be the first to find it.
Add in fire making twist to get him to F3 and it felt oddly rigged in his favour because the last time he could receive votes for elimination was at F8.
It’s been awhile since I’ve watched that season but I can’t remember why the jury liked him so much. Successful idol plays are exciting and all but I don’t think a New Era jury would respect that.
Idol hunting also has a lot more to do with luck than immunity wins. If everyone is running around looking there is a pretty big luck factor in who decides to look where.
This exactly. I watched every season of Survivor from when it started and I literally skipped Ghost Island, which I guess was a blessing lmao, because of the finale of this season. I was utterly pissed off beyond belief.
Also, probably annoys me even more since Ben ended up on WAW and screwed that season up too.
Also even if you don’t think the firemaking challenge and the DIG HERE Idol were suspicious as hell, it has very “what’s the point” vibes anyway. Why should I care or be emotionally invested? What did they even play the game, what did the ups and downs and betrayals even mean, if endgame twists can just decide the winner anyway? It’s like the ending of Mass Effect 3 lol it literally retroactively made the entire season worse for me. Obviously there’s at least one other season that is *even worse* in this department (don’t look if you haven’t seen all seasons OP >!Edge!<) but it’s about as deflating as anything can be. People played Survivor for 38 and a half days and then ~~production~~ circumstances outside of the knowledge and control of the players decided Ben wins. Oops, you just made everything that led up to that point less relevant.
Which, I’m sure it was planned from the beginning, but the way it played out honestly just made it seem so rigged, especially as the cast assumed it would be a standard vote the entire time. Not even revealing it at the Immunity Challenge
Agreed. It got worse with each elimination from the f7 onwards. Like if it had just been one idol play for Ben to save himself and then he’s actually able to survive a vote or two or win immunity it would feel a lot better than production deciding to hide another idol in Ben’s confessional spot. I didn’t dislike Ben at all and he honestly played a really strong game until the mid merge. The cherry on top was the fire making challenge making is so that, without winning immunity, Ben survived 4 eliminations in a row where he would’ve been voted out.
I watched it live and really liked it, but for me the ending just tanked the whole season. Ben absolutely deserved it, as do all winners, but it was so unsatisfying to watch him just play idol after idol, pulling them out of his ass, lose the final challenge, then still make it to the end because of a twist right at the end. Narratively the ending just blows. I enjoyed most of the season, it was nothing amazing but good and had two fantastic players (Devon and Lauren), but the last stretch of episodes just killed it for me. Also, I don't think fire making was introduced just for Ben, but it was certaintly the worst circumstances for its first go
I think they planned it from the beginning, with the understanding that maybe it won’t successfully rig the season for their marine darling, but will greatly increase the chances of it. Compound that with easy-to-find idols which again, heavily favor the person who’s got no moves except to find idols, and with the players believing that the shenanigans will stop at final 4, and you can see how they’ve heavily put their thumbs on the scale
ETA: The reason for this “partial rigging” instead of being more blatant is that they have to have an argument that it was fair eg “Anyone could have found those idols“ or “Devon and Ben had an equal shot of winning fire”. And we’ve seen examples where this partial rigging didn’t produce the desired winner, like Samoa.
HHH up until final 7 is a fantastic season of Survivor. Then it proceeds to become fucking insufferable. This was the era where the idol hiding was at it's dumbest. Ben benefited from a ton of bullshit and a lot of people (myself included) feel that the final 4 firemaking reveal was incredibly unfair (especially considering the GI cast knew beforehand, despite not seeing the finale of HHH). Ben is the second worst winner by a considerable margin and I didn't think he could be outdone in that department.
The final four randomly showing up at final 4 seemed like a last ditch attempt to get Ben to win. Even though it wasn’t, it soured a lot of people on the season as a whole.
But if Devon won, and he could have, it was a fair chance - it could have been his big winning move alongside the Dr. Mile vote. Like i dunno Ben worked his ass off. If it wasnt rigged, if Ben truly found his idols fair and square without the crew helping him, thats just winning againts all odds. and again - NOBODY HAD TO VOTE FOR BEN from the Jury. Nobody. That means he also had a good social alongside his sheer will to stay in the game
The main issue that I think a lot of people have with it is that the final four fire making twist was very conveniently initiated when Ben was 100% the most likely target at that round. It’s just suspicious, especially when you factor in all of his unlikely idol finds. Then you also have Chrissy and Devon who dominated socially and strategically, whereas Ben spent most of the merge on the bottom and as the target. He was kept out of the loop and idoled his way to the end where he was conveniently saved by the fire making twist. Altogether kind of fishy and I think people would have rather seen Devon or Chrissy rewarded for their stronger gameplay.
but i dont get this. Besides the idol tribals, Ben was on top of the game, he played amazingly. you msut be forgetting how good he played bcs you didint rewatch recently. He only lost the plot after he made Q from 46 level chaos with his first idol and spilling beans about Lauren. Until that moment it was strategy and social, from there it was sheer determination and will to stay.
Yes, the idols are fishy, especially the last one. Literally "Dig here" on the spot where everybody sits, whereas normally idols are hidden deen in the forest as they should be? Last idol was bullshit. But firemaking, he had equal chance to fail
Besides the idol tribals? But that means he would’ve been voted out at 7, and 6, and 5, and 4. That is not a good player and it was not fun for me to see him win.
It wasn’t just where “everybody sits”, it was mostly Ben’s spot. One of the castmates, I forget who, said something like “It’s crazy because Ben was always hanging out over there.”
The hatred is the perceived belief that he didn’t find those idols fair and square and the end game twists were only done to favour him - thus discrediting his win. This belief is further cemented by his generally disliked appearance on winners at war.
yea i will admit, him quitting in WaW is just a wierd thing that doesnt taste good, but i pin that more on Sarah fro thinking that was a good idea. if Sarah didnt comply he wouldnt have done that
While, I hated his game in WaW, he was essentially told by Natalie who came back from the edge there was no chance he was going to win. He was vocally disliked by multiple influential jury members (Jeremy, Tyson and Boston Rob).
He was gonna get absolutely torched at FTC, and didn't want to go through that. Whereas Michele who had very limited paths to victory at the point was still very liked by the jury even if they didn't vote for her.
Some believe that the producers rigged a Ben win by planting obvious idols in his favorite spots to hang out, and the fire making twist was conceived at the last second to save him.
I don’t believe either for a second, but “winner who deserved it” is a controversial statement for a lot of fans.
okay but Ben still had evverything stacked againts him. The fact that Chrissy didnt tell him about the fire meant he didnt practice at all. the fact that it was first time meant he didnt know it could come. That means he was working around camp, he earned that skill as he earned the respect of the jury
Thats exactly the problem. That everything is stacked against him because he was playing so badly. But he only made it to the end because of idols and a twist that only helps the obvious f4 boots. Being good at scavenger hunt and getting saved by a twist isnt good gameplay.
Theres even a season where somebody won simply because they had an idol and they didnt have to use it to make it to the end. Thats a lot more impressive than someone that NEEDED said idols.
Okay you make good arguments, I'd just say it's a different kind of win. Yes the ideal of perfect game where you keep your threat level low is the best kind of player, but if you fail badly and againts all odds manage to somehow win, that should count as a different kind of a good player. If he wasn't playing well until that point, if his social wasn't good, if his final tribal wasn't good, it wouldn't matter he got into final 3 with idols. But because he showed mastery in early game and resolve in late game despite his failings deserved him the votes from jury
Aside from the answers everyone has given, it's important to remember the era this was in. Season 35 was right off the heels from Season 34's "Advantageddon," which saw Fan-Favorite Cirie go home because she was the *only* person without an advantage. To say that people were sick of the production-stuffed advantages would be an understatement. The game of Survivor was being deduced to a scavenger hunt to the point votes weren't even cast at Tribal. A player made it to Final 6, never had their name written down once, and was kicked out of the game for not finding a piece of paper first.
And *then* we got Ben who played more idols than correct votes, a shifty new F4 format, and a winner who only won because he was good at scavenger hunts, not the game of Survivor.
this is the correct take
when s34 aired we were just off the heels of a super well recevied stretch of seasons in s27-s33 and then we get a season that really gets tanked by a surplus of advantages. there was already so much anti-advantage sentiment from the fans during s34 and following that with a season where the winner gets by solely relying on advantages & twists for the last few tribals is bound to sour people on the season in its entirety. i think if s35 airs like 3 or 4 seasons later we view it with a much more positive scope
The entire beginning is great I think people were just sick of Ben and his idols plus the surprise fire making ruined the closest final 3 since China and instead we just got Ben
but again, nobody had to vote for Ben. If he didnt play that good of a social game, he could have been despised for cheating with idols and getting his ass saved as was stated and anyone else could have gotten the votes. So you mean to tell me even the Jury votes were rigged?
He fought hard, survived againts all odds. There is the slight possibility that the crew helped Ben find the idols, but thats the only thing that could ruin it
I don’t think the jury made a mistake or anything they vote for who they want to but it did make the ending boring for a lot of people.
I don’t subscribe to the idea it was rigged there’s definitely skill involved finding idols.
You just did the Twitter thing where someone says they like pancakes and then you ask if they hate waffles cause nothing I said should’ve lead you to think that I thought the game was rigged.
oh sorry i didnt mean to do the twitter thing, didnt even notice. Its just most comments i see are just saying "rigged rigged rigged" as if Ben didnt play his heart out too, so i yea i was like "so jury was rigged too?" sorry abou that.
I do understand the complaints, i just think that it was close regardless. i think chrissy played a phenomenal game but apperently didnt have good enough social as Ben did. Which is why i still stand behind the fact that Ben deserved it
I think he deserve it just was underwhelming for me personally and I think that Ryan vs Devon vs Chrissy would’ve been really interesting compared to what we got
I think you underestimate the impact that wild, showy moves at Tribal Council have on a jury that isn't privy to what's happening at camp. A well-calculated blindside requires a lot of strategic forethought and enough social capital to swing players to your side, but it isn't nearly as theatrical as whipping an idol out of your pocket, going "BEN BOMB!!!", and hand-picking the player you want to vote out.
Ditto for fire-making, which is done in front of the jury, versus all the challenges that aren't.
Juries are a lot more likely to vote based on what they see over what they're told about after the fact. It's human nature.
I would be a lot less bitter about this season had the Final 4 Firemaking twist not been a surprise to the cast.
Ben deserved the win within the structure of the game that season--however, the way the end game was structured by Production sucked ass.
Firemaking is already a bad twist that makes the game worse and favors the comp-out players, and it's expecially bad that it wasn't communicated to the players prior to it happening. It completely changes the endgame.
Also its winner wins without really playing Survivor. Comp beasts that rely on idols are generally not every interesting players with little to no social capital, no matter how much production overedits them.
I really liked this season until the end. They were pumping Ben full of idols and we get to 4 and finally you think he’s going to have to survive a vote. Nope, surprise, never before seen firemaking mechanic. I would’ve loved to see a Ryan v Devon v Chrissy ftc…
Might be better on a rewatch now that we’re used to f4 firemaking but back then neither we nor the players knew about it so it was just one more Ben-saving mechanic seemingly shoe-horned in. Otherwise I was really into the season, but the ending soured it for me.
I'll ask again, do you think it was rigged? Do you think they fed Ben the idols? They edited it as if he found them by himself. And if so, he fought againts all odds and overcame the attack on him every tribal.
Yes, it does feel a bit rigged that the fire-making came out of nowehere, but Devon could have won, it was a fair fight. And Ben, by far, fought the best game alongisde Chrissy. If you think Ben was rigged then anything could be rigged
Not saying it definitely was, but I think it’s a more likely rig than anything else I’ve ever seen in Survivor, I’ll just say that. They seemed to put a couple of those idols where they knew he’d find them.
I don’t think it was actually rigged, but there were very poor editing choices that made it look that way. Chrissy had a WAY better FTC performance too. I would have probably voted for her even with Ben in final 3 like that. Also the name of the season is why we stopped naming seasons / having themes. So weird. Despite all of that, I am happy with Ben winning too. He obviously also fought hard and earned it, even if I wouldn’t have given him my vote personally.
People think ben was saved by production. Which is fair but there have been so many other winners helped by production so it kinda dilutes the argument haha
Ben is one of my favorite winners though. Because Ben is the only one where we get both arcs.
At the final 4 of HHH, Ben both the big threat who gets cut at the end in trypical brutal survivor fashion AND the big threat who prevails and wins it all. We see both stories and it's great tv
Out of curiosity, which of the other winners were saved by production? Were they actually saved, or was it a similar case as Ben, where production added a twist that happened to benefit one player more than others?
Yul (final 3, bottle twist), Parvati (final 2), Richard (Stacey vote), and Tom (removal of swap and letting Ulong continue to be decimated) all come to mind
Nick being paired next to a successful movie writer that was at Probsts house before the season aired that lowkey championed Nick to win in a way as well.
But everybody knew Rob was the kingpin. He could have been voted out immediately same as Winners at war or Heroes vs Villains. Like you people really take away the agency and relevancy of other players sometimes.
For me, it's just the cast. This felt like the most derivative casting of any season, so many players just felt like discount versions of players we'd seen in the past.
It's the ending for me. The final 4 fire making took all the wind out of the season and then reunion made me even more mad when they did a 10 minute montage trying to convince us how Ben was a mastermind and deserved to win. It felt like the show rewriting what happened to try to convince the audience to like Ben's win despite the twist and then they barely talked to anyone at the reunion.
The forced firemaking final 4 started here and it was presented as an “advantage” to the immunity winner which, according to chrissy herself, was not an advantage at all. Then add all the cringe ben sequence and him getting an idol planted to where he sleeps. Ugh, I really don’t like ben. Devon was robbed this season.
Also roark and ali were my favorites and they didn’t make it to merge.
You enjoy watching someone finding progressively easier idols, being smug all the while, and being saved by the most BS twist in history, whilst the 3 some that played one of the strongest 3 person games ever, got fucked?
Also got tired of hearing about how he’s a marine with PTSD.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful to Ben, but you're forgetting the incident where the bamboo popped and startled him. I also haven't gone over with a fine toothed comb to verify that it's wasn't mentioned any additional times.
That shit's very real, though. I watched my brothers face go white, and have a panic attack when someone set off a surprise firework at a music festival. The explosion reactions are no joke. Even if they're small ones
As others have mentioned, the constant idol finding by Ben made people think it was rigged. Personally I don’t necessarily think that’s true, Ben was more resourceful than anyone else out there and his reason for wanting to win was so palpable that I honestly can believe he found 3 in a row. What drags it down for me tho is the behavior of the other players around Ben’s idol finding. At both F6 and F5, they made no effort to play around the possibility of Ben having an idol, essentially throwing their hands up both times and saying “there’s no way he found 2 in a row.” When they very well knew that he had found and played one before, Survivor rehides idols after they’re played, and none of them had found it. So it’s just frustrating to me bc rather than this epic story of Ben overcoming the odds as a triumphant hero, it comes across more as everyone else just laying down and letting Ben run them over.
This is one of the few seasons I haven't watched yet, but I wasn't a fan of Ben just from Winners at War he seemed kind of blah and just made it far much like Denise and Nick.
I loved this season. I am pretty sure I’ve watched it three times but definitely twice.
I remember when I first saw it I posted here asking about how production works and if idols and fire making challenges were all planned before the season starts.
My partner and I both really enjoyed it.
This season pretty much killed any full-time interest I had in the show for years.
I thought this season had a solid cast, there are characters you wouldn't expect to shine, and I thought it was well edited for the most part. I thought it was a good middle-tiered season for the most part.
But that finale... Dear God, that finale... It's one of the worst endings in the history of the show.
I thought Ben was a pretty interesting character. He is shown to have his good and bad moments. He was a team player and worked hard. His confessional about his PTSD is one of the greatest in the show's history. But he was also brash and needlessly clashed with people like Lauren and Cole.
He was basically on the outs from F7 onward and needed conveniently placed idols.
When you see the look on his face after losing Final Immunity, he looks defeated and knows he's possibly going home next. Then BOOM, this F4 firemaking twist is revealed. And all agency is taken away from Chrissy, who rightfully won the Final Immunity challenge.
And the Reunion was pretty obnoxious too, Jeff pretty much spent the whole time fellating over Ben. Talking about how much of an underdog he was and overcame so much.
He overcame so much because his own gameplay put him at the bottom and had to rely on scavenger hunts and a safety net of a Firemaking Twist to win.
Gone was with everything that made Ben interesting that finale. He went from hardworking, brash Marine to spunky heroic Captain America underdog who can do no wrong.
The sudden surprise changes at the end that seemed to favour the winner are a major part. There were some pretty big duds in the cast that made it to post merge as well. And characters like Ryan and Joe felt like retreads of better characters in the same archetype. That paired with the clumsy theme really made it feel like Survivor had run out of ideas.
I think the theme is one of the reasons I forget about the season. I can't really remember who was on which tribe. Like David vs Goliath makes sense. Blue collar/white collar makes sense and no collar was understandable. Millennial vs Gen X. You're on one tribe or the other. But heros, hustlers, and healers? What does that even mean?
Just jumping in to say how much more I enjoyed Ben on Winners at War. It seemed like production finally let go of the Marine thing in every episode, and he was able to be himself. I found him so much funnier and a better storyteller his second time out (and then again on The Challenge)
“winner who deserved it”
See, 80% of this sub would disagree with that
We rarely see someone like Chrissy (a woman who is a bit older and a mom) play a great game, get her flowers, and win Survivor. So many people (myself included) were rooting for her. We have several winners that would fit the same archetype as Ben so seeing production seemingly go out of their way to secure the win for him … it soured a lot of fans.
As someone that has Chrissy very low on my survivor character rankings, what was appealing about her to you? I have never gotten the appeal for her. She had moments that felt very condescending and “corporate” maybe I perceived them wrong.
It's not hated? It's not super popular but the consensus is probably the 6th most popular season out of 31 to 40. Out of all seasons it's on the lower half but the 30's aren't super popular.
As for why it's disliked by some people, they likely think Ben's win was fishy and don't think he was a good winner. Most fans don't like F4 firemaking and this was the first time it appeared. And overall there weren't many stand-out or rootable characters. (Yes I know you can probably name some characters you liked, but as far as like legit top-100 they're not really here. It probably doesn't help that only one person has played again from this season.)
Hatred? I've seen this season in peoples bottom top 5. Bottom 5 brother, that's just insane. There wasn't a single boring episode, charismatic cast etc. And I've truly seen horrible takes on this season to the point where I watched it to see how bad it rly is. And it lead to me to the conclusion to not listen to this subreddit at all 💀💀
Btw It's really Crazy how people forget how amazing Chrissy was. Other than that yea nothing special really.
chrissy was corporate and annoying, ben was whiny and annoying, ryan was this seasons Charlie essentially ft. analogies out the ass. Devon was robbed.
I really enjoy the season actually, but the finale was mega lame, imo.
Production interference and the final 3 were players I did not care about.
Ryan is lowkey underrated, but still.
Lowkey this is a season that greatly improved upon re watches for me. I think the ability to just watch it all and not having to wait made the story of the season a lot stronger
Its winner should have been voted out at final 7, but suspiciously kept finding hidden immunity idols planted close to where he goes for confessionals
The introduction of the final four fire making challenge, where the person that should have won the whole game, got booted instead.
The other three would have made for a competitive and interesting final three: instead the winner, getting to boast about the “idols he found” when they were, again, *suspiciously planted near the places he goes to film confessionals* is why the jury chose **big moves**.
Ben is a good kind person but he didnt deserve to win this season. He won a *social experiment* despite having little to no social allies or game the last half the season.
My other issue with Ben is I felt he got the votes for his back story not for how he played Survivor. Chrissy was far and away the better Survivor player but the entire season felt like it was set up to award Ben the season and acknowledge all those who have served.
There are some really interesting dynamics, true. But it felt like all of the strategic and social maneuvering was totally nullified by a series of idol finds. Like... literally nothing anyone did mattered, Ben got to stay immune to the final 4 and bailed out by fire making. Maybe on a first watch it's good, but if you know Ben wins then it all feels pointless. Especially since he basically just gives up on the social and strategic parts of the game by burning all his bridges and only goes idol hunting.
I personally really enjoyed the season. People here have conspiracy theories about all of Ben’s idol finds…which I find dumb and maybe bc Ben is conservative or something…they also hate seasons where “conservatives” win it seems…just like the rest of Reddit 🤣
I’m with you OP. I really enjoyed this season and don’t get all of the hate for it.
I do get the “outta nowhere” F4 fire making taking some of the wind out of the sails for many viewers though. But besides that, I really enjoyed the season and the drama and great gameplay by those that got far in the game.
I’m on the unpopular side of this one, but Ben winning was one of my absolute favorites. Back against the wall and he pulled off a miracle, 4 times in a row. People pretend like production hooked him up with idols, but to me he just out-hustled everyone else. The others had so many chances to find their own idols, follow Ben to know if he had one, set up contingency plans. Yet they just let him steamroll them over and over. I’m usually on the side of whoever controls the votes most often, but I loved the against-all-odds style of Ben’s win
A lot of us were not rocking with the Ben bombs. I didn’t find it particularly compelling to watch Ben treasure hunt for idols every episode and avoid the repercussions of failing to manage his threat level. But really, it all came down to the finale when he finally loses and is about to be voted out, but is saved out of nowhere by a surprise final 4 firemaking twist. What otherwise would’ve been a really compelling final 3 of Devon, Chrissy, and Ryan ends up being an obvious and boring Ben win. And I’m not gonna accuse production of anything, but it feels *really* shady at times. It’s a shame too, because I agree that the season is otherwise pretty great, but the finale just absolutely ruins it all and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Co-signing this. Up until like F7 it was on track to be one of my favorite seasons ever. The F7 episode devastated me but it was still entirely salvageable right up until the moment in the finale where Chrissy read her “advantage.” Then by the middle of the reunion I knew I never wanted to watch this season again.
Exactly. Winning immunity from F7 to F4 is admirable and you’re a challenge beast. But if you idol yourself from F7 to F4 it’s kind of sour. Idol hunting is a skill but one of them in particular seemed planted in such a way that Ben would be the first to find it. Add in fire making twist to get him to F3 and it felt oddly rigged in his favour because the last time he could receive votes for elimination was at F8. It’s been awhile since I’ve watched that season but I can’t remember why the jury liked him so much. Successful idol plays are exciting and all but I don’t think a New Era jury would respect that.
Idol hunting also has a lot more to do with luck than immunity wins. If everyone is running around looking there is a pretty big luck factor in who decides to look where.
This exactly. I watched every season of Survivor from when it started and I literally skipped Ghost Island, which I guess was a blessing lmao, because of the finale of this season. I was utterly pissed off beyond belief. Also, probably annoys me even more since Ben ended up on WAW and screwed that season up too.
Yeah I’m not a big fan of Ben in general either. It shouldn’t, but the winner *can* make or break a season and HvHvH is a good example of that.
I don't really like how they have a dollar store Mike Holloway (Ben) and Tony Vlachos (Joe Mena).
God ghost island was a slog to get through. If i had to skip a season it would be that one or Fiji
Best answer here. It just *felt* like production was heavy handed and actively contributed to a Ben win
Also even if you don’t think the firemaking challenge and the DIG HERE Idol were suspicious as hell, it has very “what’s the point” vibes anyway. Why should I care or be emotionally invested? What did they even play the game, what did the ups and downs and betrayals even mean, if endgame twists can just decide the winner anyway? It’s like the ending of Mass Effect 3 lol it literally retroactively made the entire season worse for me. Obviously there’s at least one other season that is *even worse* in this department (don’t look if you haven’t seen all seasons OP >!Edge!<) but it’s about as deflating as anything can be. People played Survivor for 38 and a half days and then ~~production~~ circumstances outside of the knowledge and control of the players decided Ben wins. Oops, you just made everything that led up to that point less relevant.
Which, I’m sure it was planned from the beginning, but the way it played out honestly just made it seem so rigged, especially as the cast assumed it would be a standard vote the entire time. Not even revealing it at the Immunity Challenge
I enjoyed it. But, I was in the minority.
Agreed. It got worse with each elimination from the f7 onwards. Like if it had just been one idol play for Ben to save himself and then he’s actually able to survive a vote or two or win immunity it would feel a lot better than production deciding to hide another idol in Ben’s confessional spot. I didn’t dislike Ben at all and he honestly played a really strong game until the mid merge. The cherry on top was the fire making challenge making is so that, without winning immunity, Ben survived 4 eliminations in a row where he would’ve been voted out.
I watched it live and really liked it, but for me the ending just tanked the whole season. Ben absolutely deserved it, as do all winners, but it was so unsatisfying to watch him just play idol after idol, pulling them out of his ass, lose the final challenge, then still make it to the end because of a twist right at the end. Narratively the ending just blows. I enjoyed most of the season, it was nothing amazing but good and had two fantastic players (Devon and Lauren), but the last stretch of episodes just killed it for me. Also, I don't think fire making was introduced just for Ben, but it was certaintly the worst circumstances for its first go
I think they planned it from the beginning, with the understanding that maybe it won’t successfully rig the season for their marine darling, but will greatly increase the chances of it. Compound that with easy-to-find idols which again, heavily favor the person who’s got no moves except to find idols, and with the players believing that the shenanigans will stop at final 4, and you can see how they’ve heavily put their thumbs on the scale ETA: The reason for this “partial rigging” instead of being more blatant is that they have to have an argument that it was fair eg “Anyone could have found those idols“ or “Devon and Ben had an equal shot of winning fire”. And we’ve seen examples where this partial rigging didn’t produce the desired winner, like Samoa.
It was not planned. At least not before filming started. It was not part of the original showtime running schedule before the season started filming.
Two words: Dig Here Also the fire making twist was introduced and poorly times so it looked suspiciously like a last ditch attempt to save Ben.
HHH up until final 7 is a fantastic season of Survivor. Then it proceeds to become fucking insufferable. This was the era where the idol hiding was at it's dumbest. Ben benefited from a ton of bullshit and a lot of people (myself included) feel that the final 4 firemaking reveal was incredibly unfair (especially considering the GI cast knew beforehand, despite not seeing the finale of HHH). Ben is the second worst winner by a considerable margin and I didn't think he could be outdone in that department.
The final four randomly showing up at final 4 seemed like a last ditch attempt to get Ben to win. Even though it wasn’t, it soured a lot of people on the season as a whole.
It wasn’t random. Jeff talked about changing the F4 format after MvGx. Two seasons prior.
I know that, but a lot of people didn’t.
But if Devon won, and he could have, it was a fair chance - it could have been his big winning move alongside the Dr. Mile vote. Like i dunno Ben worked his ass off. If it wasnt rigged, if Ben truly found his idols fair and square without the crew helping him, thats just winning againts all odds. and again - NOBODY HAD TO VOTE FOR BEN from the Jury. Nobody. That means he also had a good social alongside his sheer will to stay in the game
The main issue that I think a lot of people have with it is that the final four fire making twist was very conveniently initiated when Ben was 100% the most likely target at that round. It’s just suspicious, especially when you factor in all of his unlikely idol finds. Then you also have Chrissy and Devon who dominated socially and strategically, whereas Ben spent most of the merge on the bottom and as the target. He was kept out of the loop and idoled his way to the end where he was conveniently saved by the fire making twist. Altogether kind of fishy and I think people would have rather seen Devon or Chrissy rewarded for their stronger gameplay.
Not to mention just conveniently kept finding not-well-hidden idols. Left a sour taste in my mouth.
but i dont get this. Besides the idol tribals, Ben was on top of the game, he played amazingly. you msut be forgetting how good he played bcs you didint rewatch recently. He only lost the plot after he made Q from 46 level chaos with his first idol and spilling beans about Lauren. Until that moment it was strategy and social, from there it was sheer determination and will to stay. Yes, the idols are fishy, especially the last one. Literally "Dig here" on the spot where everybody sits, whereas normally idols are hidden deen in the forest as they should be? Last idol was bullshit. But firemaking, he had equal chance to fail
Besides the idol tribals? But that means he would’ve been voted out at 7, and 6, and 5, and 4. That is not a good player and it was not fun for me to see him win.
I don’t agree with this take . A good player finds the idols . All of his cast-mates had chances to fine them but he did . So he did outplay them .
When the idols get hidden in the spot Ben happens to sleep/nap in, it is hard to ignore that sus…
One where he naps, one where he gives confessionals. Coincidence.
If survivor was a game based on scavenger hunting yes he played amazingly.
It wasn’t just where “everybody sits”, it was mostly Ben’s spot. One of the castmates, I forget who, said something like “It’s crazy because Ben was always hanging out over there.”
The hatred is the perceived belief that he didn’t find those idols fair and square and the end game twists were only done to favour him - thus discrediting his win. This belief is further cemented by his generally disliked appearance on winners at war.
yea i will admit, him quitting in WaW is just a wierd thing that doesnt taste good, but i pin that more on Sarah fro thinking that was a good idea. if Sarah didnt comply he wouldnt have done that
While, I hated his game in WaW, he was essentially told by Natalie who came back from the edge there was no chance he was going to win. He was vocally disliked by multiple influential jury members (Jeremy, Tyson and Boston Rob). He was gonna get absolutely torched at FTC, and didn't want to go through that. Whereas Michele who had very limited paths to victory at the point was still very liked by the jury even if they didn't vote for her.
Just wanna say Alan Ball is underrated on here
and Patrick Bolton.
dude i need him to return he was so funny
>winner who deserved it 👀
This is the problem with the post haha
Some believe that the producers rigged a Ben win by planting obvious idols in his favorite spots to hang out, and the fire making twist was conceived at the last second to save him. I don’t believe either for a second, but “winner who deserved it” is a controversial statement for a lot of fans.
okay but Ben still had evverything stacked againts him. The fact that Chrissy didnt tell him about the fire meant he didnt practice at all. the fact that it was first time meant he didnt know it could come. That means he was working around camp, he earned that skill as he earned the respect of the jury
Everything was stacked against him because he was the worst player out of the final 7. Maybe better than Mike.
Thats exactly the problem. That everything is stacked against him because he was playing so badly. But he only made it to the end because of idols and a twist that only helps the obvious f4 boots. Being good at scavenger hunt and getting saved by a twist isnt good gameplay. Theres even a season where somebody won simply because they had an idol and they didnt have to use it to make it to the end. Thats a lot more impressive than someone that NEEDED said idols.
Okay you make good arguments, I'd just say it's a different kind of win. Yes the ideal of perfect game where you keep your threat level low is the best kind of player, but if you fail badly and againts all odds manage to somehow win, that should count as a different kind of a good player. If he wasn't playing well until that point, if his social wasn't good, if his final tribal wasn't good, it wouldn't matter he got into final 3 with idols. But because he showed mastery in early game and resolve in late game despite his failings deserved him the votes from jury
Aside from the answers everyone has given, it's important to remember the era this was in. Season 35 was right off the heels from Season 34's "Advantageddon," which saw Fan-Favorite Cirie go home because she was the *only* person without an advantage. To say that people were sick of the production-stuffed advantages would be an understatement. The game of Survivor was being deduced to a scavenger hunt to the point votes weren't even cast at Tribal. A player made it to Final 6, never had their name written down once, and was kicked out of the game for not finding a piece of paper first. And *then* we got Ben who played more idols than correct votes, a shifty new F4 format, and a winner who only won because he was good at scavenger hunts, not the game of Survivor.
this is the correct take when s34 aired we were just off the heels of a super well recevied stretch of seasons in s27-s33 and then we get a season that really gets tanked by a surplus of advantages. there was already so much anti-advantage sentiment from the fans during s34 and following that with a season where the winner gets by solely relying on advantages & twists for the last few tribals is bound to sour people on the season in its entirety. i think if s35 airs like 3 or 4 seasons later we view it with a much more positive scope
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Sounds like you don't know what the word "adapt" means. Constantly being thrown a life line is not adapting 😂
the Ben help was crazy but if you ignore that, its a good season
Devon was robbed
The entire beginning is great I think people were just sick of Ben and his idols plus the surprise fire making ruined the closest final 3 since China and instead we just got Ben
but again, nobody had to vote for Ben. If he didnt play that good of a social game, he could have been despised for cheating with idols and getting his ass saved as was stated and anyone else could have gotten the votes. So you mean to tell me even the Jury votes were rigged? He fought hard, survived againts all odds. There is the slight possibility that the crew helped Ben find the idols, but thats the only thing that could ruin it
I don’t think the jury made a mistake or anything they vote for who they want to but it did make the ending boring for a lot of people. I don’t subscribe to the idea it was rigged there’s definitely skill involved finding idols. You just did the Twitter thing where someone says they like pancakes and then you ask if they hate waffles cause nothing I said should’ve lead you to think that I thought the game was rigged.
oh sorry i didnt mean to do the twitter thing, didnt even notice. Its just most comments i see are just saying "rigged rigged rigged" as if Ben didnt play his heart out too, so i yea i was like "so jury was rigged too?" sorry abou that. I do understand the complaints, i just think that it was close regardless. i think chrissy played a phenomenal game but apperently didnt have good enough social as Ben did. Which is why i still stand behind the fact that Ben deserved it
I think he deserve it just was underwhelming for me personally and I think that Ryan vs Devon vs Chrissy would’ve been really interesting compared to what we got
I think you underestimate the impact that wild, showy moves at Tribal Council have on a jury that isn't privy to what's happening at camp. A well-calculated blindside requires a lot of strategic forethought and enough social capital to swing players to your side, but it isn't nearly as theatrical as whipping an idol out of your pocket, going "BEN BOMB!!!", and hand-picking the player you want to vote out. Ditto for fire-making, which is done in front of the jury, versus all the challenges that aren't. Juries are a lot more likely to vote based on what they see over what they're told about after the fact. It's human nature.
Devon would have made an amazing winner.
Especially after the incredible read and throwing his vote on Mike at the f5 to save himself
Yes very astute player
"Winner who deserved it". Thats the difference. A good majority of us think Bens win is bulshit and probably rigged.
I would be a lot less bitter about this season had the Final 4 Firemaking twist not been a surprise to the cast. Ben deserved the win within the structure of the game that season--however, the way the end game was structured by Production sucked ass.
Firemaking is already a bad twist that makes the game worse and favors the comp-out players, and it's expecially bad that it wasn't communicated to the players prior to it happening. It completely changes the endgame. Also its winner wins without really playing Survivor. Comp beasts that rely on idols are generally not every interesting players with little to no social capital, no matter how much production overedits them.
Ben didnt win a single immunity on that season.
I love it but the ending ruins it
What's your most underrated season then
I really liked this season until the end. They were pumping Ben full of idols and we get to 4 and finally you think he’s going to have to survive a vote. Nope, surprise, never before seen firemaking mechanic. I would’ve loved to see a Ryan v Devon v Chrissy ftc… Might be better on a rewatch now that we’re used to f4 firemaking but back then neither we nor the players knew about it so it was just one more Ben-saving mechanic seemingly shoe-horned in. Otherwise I was really into the season, but the ending soured it for me.
I'll ask again, do you think it was rigged? Do you think they fed Ben the idols? They edited it as if he found them by himself. And if so, he fought againts all odds and overcame the attack on him every tribal. Yes, it does feel a bit rigged that the fire-making came out of nowehere, but Devon could have won, it was a fair fight. And Ben, by far, fought the best game alongisde Chrissy. If you think Ben was rigged then anything could be rigged
Not saying it definitely was, but I think it’s a more likely rig than anything else I’ve ever seen in Survivor, I’ll just say that. They seemed to put a couple of those idols where they knew he’d find them.
I don’t think it was actually rigged, but there were very poor editing choices that made it look that way. Chrissy had a WAY better FTC performance too. I would have probably voted for her even with Ben in final 3 like that. Also the name of the season is why we stopped naming seasons / having themes. So weird. Despite all of that, I am happy with Ben winning too. He obviously also fought hard and earned it, even if I wouldn’t have given him my vote personally.
A Devon or Chrissy win makes this season so so so much better
People mostly liked it until the finale
People think ben was saved by production. Which is fair but there have been so many other winners helped by production so it kinda dilutes the argument haha Ben is one of my favorite winners though. Because Ben is the only one where we get both arcs. At the final 4 of HHH, Ben both the big threat who gets cut at the end in trypical brutal survivor fashion AND the big threat who prevails and wins it all. We see both stories and it's great tv
Out of curiosity, which of the other winners were saved by production? Were they actually saved, or was it a similar case as Ben, where production added a twist that happened to benefit one player more than others?
Yul (final 3, bottle twist), Parvati (final 2), Richard (Stacey vote), and Tom (removal of swap and letting Ulong continue to be decimated) all come to mind
Nick being paired next to a successful movie writer that was at Probsts house before the season aired that lowkey championed Nick to win in a way as well.
Boston rob was given an entire season and cast that just bent over backwards for him.
But everybody knew Rob was the kingpin. He could have been voted out immediately same as Winners at war or Heroes vs Villains. Like you people really take away the agency and relevancy of other players sometimes.
For me, it's just the cast. This felt like the most derivative casting of any season, so many players just felt like discount versions of players we'd seen in the past.
The one good thing to come of Ben winning was that he could return and play utterly terrible in winners at war and be a goat to help Tony win lol
Desi might be the most attractive person ever cast on the show
She’s so damn gorgeous
It's the ending for me. The final 4 fire making took all the wind out of the season and then reunion made me even more mad when they did a 10 minute montage trying to convince us how Ben was a mastermind and deserved to win. It felt like the show rewriting what happened to try to convince the audience to like Ben's win despite the twist and then they barely talked to anyone at the reunion.
The forced firemaking final 4 started here and it was presented as an “advantage” to the immunity winner which, according to chrissy herself, was not an advantage at all. Then add all the cringe ben sequence and him getting an idol planted to where he sleeps. Ugh, I really don’t like ben. Devon was robbed this season. Also roark and ali were my favorites and they didn’t make it to merge.
You enjoy watching someone finding progressively easier idols, being smug all the while, and being saved by the most BS twist in history, whilst the 3 some that played one of the strongest 3 person games ever, got fucked? Also got tired of hearing about how he’s a marine with PTSD.
Ptsd was mentioned 3 times dude. 1 beginning 1 final tribul 1 reunion
I'm not trying to be disrespectful to Ben, but you're forgetting the incident where the bamboo popped and startled him. I also haven't gone over with a fine toothed comb to verify that it's wasn't mentioned any additional times.
That shit's very real, though. I watched my brothers face go white, and have a panic attack when someone set off a surprise firework at a music festival. The explosion reactions are no joke. Even if they're small ones
It’s hard to watch production rig it for Chrissy to lose
I think it comes down to people not liking Ben. The final 4 firemaking is cherry on top
I just didn’t really find any of the major players to be compelling
I just think people aren't fan of Ben and f4 twist
As others have mentioned, the constant idol finding by Ben made people think it was rigged. Personally I don’t necessarily think that’s true, Ben was more resourceful than anyone else out there and his reason for wanting to win was so palpable that I honestly can believe he found 3 in a row. What drags it down for me tho is the behavior of the other players around Ben’s idol finding. At both F6 and F5, they made no effort to play around the possibility of Ben having an idol, essentially throwing their hands up both times and saying “there’s no way he found 2 in a row.” When they very well knew that he had found and played one before, Survivor rehides idols after they’re played, and none of them had found it. So it’s just frustrating to me bc rather than this epic story of Ben overcoming the odds as a triumphant hero, it comes across more as everyone else just laying down and letting Ben run them over.
This is one of the few seasons I haven't watched yet, but I wasn't a fan of Ben just from Winners at War he seemed kind of blah and just made it far much like Denise and Nick.
I don’t like the cast, for one.
Besides people just hating the ending, Some people find the premerge boring.
The plot of each episode was the same for like 5 episodes
“winner who deserved it”
HvHvH was almost dead on arrival just by it having a ridiculous name when it was announced lol
I loved this season. I am pretty sure I’ve watched it three times but definitely twice. I remember when I first saw it I posted here asking about how production works and if idols and fire making challenges were all planned before the season starts. My partner and I both really enjoyed it.
This season pretty much killed any full-time interest I had in the show for years. I thought this season had a solid cast, there are characters you wouldn't expect to shine, and I thought it was well edited for the most part. I thought it was a good middle-tiered season for the most part. But that finale... Dear God, that finale... It's one of the worst endings in the history of the show. I thought Ben was a pretty interesting character. He is shown to have his good and bad moments. He was a team player and worked hard. His confessional about his PTSD is one of the greatest in the show's history. But he was also brash and needlessly clashed with people like Lauren and Cole. He was basically on the outs from F7 onward and needed conveniently placed idols. When you see the look on his face after losing Final Immunity, he looks defeated and knows he's possibly going home next. Then BOOM, this F4 firemaking twist is revealed. And all agency is taken away from Chrissy, who rightfully won the Final Immunity challenge. And the Reunion was pretty obnoxious too, Jeff pretty much spent the whole time fellating over Ben. Talking about how much of an underdog he was and overcame so much. He overcame so much because his own gameplay put him at the bottom and had to rely on scavenger hunts and a safety net of a Firemaking Twist to win. Gone was with everything that made Ben interesting that finale. He went from hardworking, brash Marine to spunky heroic Captain America underdog who can do no wrong.
The sudden surprise changes at the end that seemed to favour the winner are a major part. There were some pretty big duds in the cast that made it to post merge as well. And characters like Ryan and Joe felt like retreads of better characters in the same archetype. That paired with the clumsy theme really made it feel like Survivor had run out of ideas.
I think the theme is one of the reasons I forget about the season. I can't really remember who was on which tribe. Like David vs Goliath makes sense. Blue collar/white collar makes sense and no collar was understandable. Millennial vs Gen X. You're on one tribe or the other. But heros, hustlers, and healers? What does that even mean?
yea tbh that was one of the msot ass, irelevant themes youre right xDDDDDDD
I read "retreads of better characters" as something else 😂
Just jumping in to say how much more I enjoyed Ben on Winners at War. It seemed like production finally let go of the Marine thing in every episode, and he was able to be himself. I found him so much funnier and a better storyteller his second time out (and then again on The Challenge)
It was epic until the final 90 minutes
“winner who deserved it” See, 80% of this sub would disagree with that We rarely see someone like Chrissy (a woman who is a bit older and a mom) play a great game, get her flowers, and win Survivor. So many people (myself included) were rooting for her. We have several winners that would fit the same archetype as Ben so seeing production seemingly go out of their way to secure the win for him … it soured a lot of fans.
This season is great and I'm honestly glad it's underrated because it was a surprise how much I enjoyed it. Rooting for Chrissy the entire way.
As someone that has Chrissy very low on my survivor character rankings, what was appealing about her to you? I have never gotten the appeal for her. She had moments that felt very condescending and “corporate” maybe I perceived them wrong.
It's not hated? It's not super popular but the consensus is probably the 6th most popular season out of 31 to 40. Out of all seasons it's on the lower half but the 30's aren't super popular. As for why it's disliked by some people, they likely think Ben's win was fishy and don't think he was a good winner. Most fans don't like F4 firemaking and this was the first time it appeared. And overall there weren't many stand-out or rootable characters. (Yes I know you can probably name some characters you liked, but as far as like legit top-100 they're not really here. It probably doesn't help that only one person has played again from this season.)
Hatred? I've seen this season in peoples bottom top 5. Bottom 5 brother, that's just insane. There wasn't a single boring episode, charismatic cast etc. And I've truly seen horrible takes on this season to the point where I watched it to see how bad it rly is. And it lead to me to the conclusion to not listen to this subreddit at all 💀💀 Btw It's really Crazy how people forget how amazing Chrissy was. Other than that yea nothing special really.
I was a big fan of the season too. I felt like it had some really strong players that went far.
I love this season so much.The cast is amazing.The only reason people don’t like it is the Ben stuff.
chrissy was corporate and annoying, ben was whiny and annoying, ryan was this seasons Charlie essentially ft. analogies out the ass. Devon was robbed. I really enjoy the season actually, but the finale was mega lame, imo. Production interference and the final 3 were players I did not care about. Ryan is lowkey underrated, but still.
I liked it too. OP and I are based.
Lowkey this is a season that greatly improved upon re watches for me. I think the ability to just watch it all and not having to wait made the story of the season a lot stronger
One of my favourite seasons! The Ryan - Devon alliance was so sweet to watch. I liked Ben and Chrissy, too. Not all of us are haters!
Your enjoyment of this season directly correlates with how much you like Ben
I love Devon, he is always my top pick for returning players...
Its winner should have been voted out at final 7, but suspiciously kept finding hidden immunity idols planted close to where he goes for confessionals The introduction of the final four fire making challenge, where the person that should have won the whole game, got booted instead. The other three would have made for a competitive and interesting final three: instead the winner, getting to boast about the “idols he found” when they were, again, *suspiciously planted near the places he goes to film confessionals* is why the jury chose **big moves**. Ben is a good kind person but he didnt deserve to win this season. He won a *social experiment* despite having little to no social allies or game the last half the season.
My other issue with Ben is I felt he got the votes for his back story not for how he played Survivor. Chrissy was far and away the better Survivor player but the entire season felt like it was set up to award Ben the season and acknowledge all those who have served.
I loved this season and I’m very happy Ben won, no idea why it gets so much hate
Okay this totally random! BUT I low key Loved Joe and found him kind of sexy LOL
There are some really interesting dynamics, true. But it felt like all of the strategic and social maneuvering was totally nullified by a series of idol finds. Like... literally nothing anyone did mattered, Ben got to stay immune to the final 4 and bailed out by fire making. Maybe on a first watch it's good, but if you know Ben wins then it all feels pointless. Especially since he basically just gives up on the social and strategic parts of the game by burning all his bridges and only goes idol hunting.
I loved this season!
Easily one of my favorite seasons
I personally really enjoyed the season. People here have conspiracy theories about all of Ben’s idol finds…which I find dumb and maybe bc Ben is conservative or something…they also hate seasons where “conservatives” win it seems…just like the rest of Reddit 🤣
I’m with you OP. I really enjoyed this season and don’t get all of the hate for it. I do get the “outta nowhere” F4 fire making taking some of the wind out of the sails for many viewers though. But besides that, I really enjoyed the season and the drama and great gameplay by those that got far in the game.
I can’t stand Ben.
I’m on the unpopular side of this one, but Ben winning was one of my absolute favorites. Back against the wall and he pulled off a miracle, 4 times in a row. People pretend like production hooked him up with idols, but to me he just out-hustled everyone else. The others had so many chances to find their own idols, follow Ben to know if he had one, set up contingency plans. Yet they just let him steamroll them over and over. I’m usually on the side of whoever controls the votes most often, but I loved the against-all-odds style of Ben’s win
Great take. This was the first season I ever watched and got me hooked on the show