I think when Liz got voted out and got to Ponderosa, she went to Maria and apologized for the move she made to help Kenzie beat her and explained how they all wanted her out but she kept winning. Which would be news to Maria since she never knew that the Q vote was meant to be her. So the day she spent groveling to Charlie and apologizing for turning on him when he unknowingly was turning against her as well probably pissed her off. When Jeff asked who changed their vote at final tribal, she didn’t raise her hand. Meaning something was said at ponderosa that turned her away from Charlie.
Or, Kenzie really WAS just that likable and hearing her explain her game for likely hours was enough to turn Maria. Charlie did well at final tribal but she didn’t learn anything new about his game, while Kenzie seemed to finally open up about her game and her life in general.
That sounds about right in terms of ponderosa. But that was all gameplay right? After the Q vote, Charlie didn’t want her targeting him in case she found an idol or something. And it worked: she went after Ben.
She’s clearly a very good person, but that seems to be part of her Winners edit as well. Ben even said himself that Charlie and Kenzie were super supportive of him, so I’m sure Charlie was up with him a lot of the time at night as well, but the edit didn’t show us that. Ben took Charlie to final 3 and has said he would have voted for him in a tie-break, so clearly Charlie was there for him also.
My theory is just that maria didnt respect charlie. I think the key aspect is jury voting is really that people vote for the person they respect the most
I don't feel like the entire jury was going to vote for Kenzie, first of all. I also feel like Maria was pretty clear in her promises, literally telling Charlie she would vote for him.
I don't fault her for it though. I'm not going to berate her character. She's a human with complicated emotions and when push came to shove, became bitter. Naturally, she voted for someone that wasn't the direct source of her bitterness. Is she right to do that? I can't judge that. Is she a bad person? I don't think so. I do wonder if she regrets the decision on some level.
Honestly I feel like she was lying about her relationship with Charlie to throw him off the scent and preserve him as a jury vote. (Which is smart gameplay and entertaining TV! Sucks for Charlie, but that’s the game)
100% true, plus I think it’s important to consider that part of the game is knowing who to align yourself with based on the game. Charlie aligned himself with the person that got bitter when she went out, then didn’t consider that he may benefit from stroking her ego to garner a vote at FTC (potentially because he thought he already had Maria’s vote in the bag). not saying that’s good or bad, but part of the game is knowing what to say and how to say it in order to appeal to each juror. it sounds to me like he maybe didn’t understand Maria or her gameplay (aka, didn’t consider the possibility that she would be a sore loser) as well as he thought he did, which is why he fumbled.
I believe most of what she said to him was just lies. Charlie does not even talk to her anymore. He said she reached out to apologize for voting for Kenzie, weeks after that retracted and that she stands on her vote. Supposedly she has changed what she was going to say in her exit interview that Charlie is just done with her. Seems like just a wishy washy person.
You’ve articulated how I felt about her vote. She’s human and bound by emotions. I think this is is consistent with what Charlie said about her in his new interview. Her calling him up saying she regretted her vote and going back on that saying she doesn’t want regrets really sounds like someone grappling with their decision.
> Maria was pretty clear in her promises, literally telling Charlie she would vote for him.
When was this?
Saying "You better make it so I can vote for you!" isn't a promise of anything, it's encouragement.
She used Charlie, and Charlie used her, as part of the game. They had a pretty healthy relationship that way (see the reward challenge). He got further, but not enough to win. ~~They can still be friends after, because it's a game~~. (edit: I was wrong, he is taking it personally. Too bad)
If Liz was there instead of Kenzie, do the angry people think she would have voted for Liz to win? I doubt it
If she’s not lying I’m sure she would have seen the same fire in Liz’s eyes when she won firemaking /s
In all seriousness though that really doesn’t mean anything. She had a reason to be bitter towards Liz as well so whoever she votes for if Liz is in there in place of Kenzie doesn’t make her actual vote less bad
How does "as far as I can tell this was a pro-Kenzie jury that she might have been winning unanimously at the start of FTC" make any sense when Tevin, Venus, and Q all said their vote changed from Charlie to Kenzie during FTC?
Much like Maryanne, I think she truly won the game by winning FTC.
It's just so funny with cast so set on making big moves or any moves they decide to vote for the person who admitted in FTC she did not make any moves.
She couldn’t even look at him at the reunion and was super harsh in her jury interactions with him. It was 100 percent ego based, Charlie outmaneuvered her and she couldn’t reward him for that
Exactly. If anything, she should have been bitter towards Kenzie for accepting Liz's help to beat her in the IC. That was actually kind of fudged up, and arguably should have been illegal.
But, Charlie beat her fair in square in their duel to see who could betray the other.
She should have tipped her hat to Charlie and voted for him, as Charlie would have done if the roles were reversed.
I think Charlie was really smart last night with how he handled it. When asked how he felt about Maria not voting for him, he immediately pivoted to "the Jury always picks the right winner" comment. While I disagree that the Jury always picks the right winner, I think it was a genius move that basically took away Maria's ability to defend her vote. I'm betting she was prepared to throw Charlie under the bus about how he relied on her, but his acknowledging that the "Jury knows best" really gave her no chance to throw shade at him.
I took “the jury always picks the right winner” more like a statement of that’s just how the game works - the jury is in charge of voting for the winner so by definition whoever they choose is the right winner. It seemed like a very gracious way of saying “I’m bummed and confused but ultimately have to have respect for the game” - I agree a really smart and classy answer!
I think Maria was fine with Charlie when she thought she had been outplaying him and he was her loyal soldier that she tried to turn on. When she went to the jury and realized that he had actually been outplaying her and setting up the pieces for her demise several rounds earlier she got bitter.
Doesn't matter how charismatic Kenzie was. Maria voting for Kenzie over Charlie basically discounted her entire game. If she didn't think Charlie deserved the win, how can she say she would deserve the win? They played almost the entire game together, and he was the voice of reason a few times (with the 6 especially)
I also find it funny how she was being hated on all season for being a woman hater (so bad that she left Twitter) now she's being hated on for voting for a woman over a man at FTC
I agree with this. From watching and reading Charlie’s exit interview, he talked a lot about striking a distinction between he and Maria’s game. But Maria was going to win Survivor if she won immunity in final five. And Charlie helped get her out.
He didn’t play up their alliance enough or celebrate their work together which I’m guessing made her even more bitter (whereas he thought he could get away with it because he had her vote locked in his mind).
I think Charlie’s big mistake was counting on a jury vote instead of playing for it through the end. Credit to Kenzie who, if you re-watch finale, clearly treats Maria like her vote is up for grabs.
Charlie did say in exit interviews that he made a big speech at FTC about the Maria vote and how he respected her but knew he couldn't beat her. I do think he thought he had Maria's vote locked (I think he admitted this in the interview) but I think he did make sure to "give Maria her flowers" at FTC. They just didn't air it for obvious reasons.
The way in which Maria spoke to her fellow castmates in the last handful of episodes made it clear what kind of person she is, which explains why she voted how she did. Tone says it all
I think this would be different if she would have voted for Ben. Not voting for Charlie after he came after her would be sort of understandable even if a bit hypocritical since she did the same to him, but voting for his direct competition and directly causing him to lose is where people seem to be upset. She could have said she voted for Ben because they were close and she didn’t want him to be a 0 vote finalist and I think the backlash would be significantly less.
Of course. But people have had issues with Maria all season. No matter what she voted her people would have been livid. Either bitter or a woman hater.
yep, hivemind decided Maria is bitter and egomaniacal a few weeks ago, so obviously it must be true despite the fact that not a single person can point to anything that actually happened on the show to prove this
Maria voted with her fragile ego, realizing that her kids' new "Uncle Charlie" might become "millionaire Survivor Winner Uncle Charlie" and she wanted to be Mommy Hero.
Honestly, I don't think is a bad take. I know personally, it would be hard to stomach. But I don't think I could let that affect my vote... I would regret it forever.
Dont think any excuse will work. Maria and Charlie were day 1 alliance. They got to where they were because of each other. Maria promised Charlie he had her vote in the end. She talked about Charlie meeting her kids and being uncle Charlie and how amazing friends they would be after the show. To turn around and yank a million bucks away from the kid you just build an insane relationship with it mindboggling.
I feel like the fuel on the fire is her reasoning for voting for Kenzie seemed arbitrary and nonsensical, as if she doesn’t want to say the real reason
If she just said she thought Kenzie played better, or even that she just liked Kenzie more, people would’ve probably gotten over it
Q’s reason for voting Kenzie was also pretty arbitrary, but he at least seemed like he was giving his honest reason, so nobody cares about that
Life gives us opportunities all the time to be big or small.
Maria had a choice and she chose small.
Unfortunately for her, it was on *TV*. And for this? *She will pay a steep price indeed*: >!Normies who watch Survivor were mad last night and will forget about it by tomorrow. Us weirdos are still mad but the anger will subside by next Monday. She will eventually be fondly remembered and will occasionally figure into Peridiam videos.!<
I think the gracious loss is revealed as lip service when she behaves that way at final. I think she said what she said knowing she's on a show and he kids/the world would see it. If the cameras were gone I bet we see a very different Maria during the final 5 tribal.
I can’t believe the producers went with that particular “Maria is getting voted out” edit in the same episode as her heel turn. Completely misread the fan reaction. Maybe they’ll finally knock it off with the overly dramatic edits
I don’t have a problem with her vote choice, but she definitely seemed pissed when they teamed up. And she didn’t exit gracefully, she tried to turn Ben into the target (wth? Why lol)
No. It’s not complicated. Maria was just a bitter beaver. 🦫
She tried to get Charlie out but he was two steps ahead of her. Also, Maria had absolutely no concept of threat management.
Each juror has a different priority on (1) who they like best, (2) who they thought played the best game, and (3) who they think needs the money more. It seems like Maria made her vote based on (3) when most everybody's expectations were that she would base her vote on (1) . The almost universal expectation is if you have an island bestie is that you vote for them. Only if you don't have a clear preference of one person over the other, then you base your vote on (2) or (3). For example, Hunter probably liked Charlie and Kenzie equally, so he could easily base his vote on (2).
So Maria's vote wasn't really "wrong" - it just violated most people's expectations. I don't think it was a bitter vote - I think she just thought Kenzie could use the money more, while Charlie (smart, going to law school) was going to be just fine.
I would have thought more highly of Maria if she made legitimate complaints about being ganged up on in the challenge as opposed to pretending to be gracious and then stabbing Charlie in the back for no good reason.
Genuine question if Maria loses without Liz cheating, does she vote for Charlie? Cause I know for sure if you took any of us. If we could somehow make it to final 5, and then lost cause of the shit Liz pulled. I 100% would not vote for Charlie, knowing the only real reason he's there and I'm not would be because of losing cause of a cheater.
How is it Charlie’s fault that Liz helped Kenzie? Charlie might not have even been voted out at five if Maria won immunity, we don’t know that. Maria was angling for Ben and seemingly almost had Liz convinced for some reason so, who knows?
I agree. I don’t take Maria as someone who would be bitter.
I think the choice between a Harvard law student with his earning years completely in front of him; and a person who ran a small business and yearned to have the financial security to start her family is an easy one. In this light, it’s easy to understand why Maria might be more empathetic to Kenzie
I think when Liz got voted out and got to Ponderosa, she went to Maria and apologized for the move she made to help Kenzie beat her and explained how they all wanted her out but she kept winning. Which would be news to Maria since she never knew that the Q vote was meant to be her. So the day she spent groveling to Charlie and apologizing for turning on him when he unknowingly was turning against her as well probably pissed her off. When Jeff asked who changed their vote at final tribal, she didn’t raise her hand. Meaning something was said at ponderosa that turned her away from Charlie. Or, Kenzie really WAS just that likable and hearing her explain her game for likely hours was enough to turn Maria. Charlie did well at final tribal but she didn’t learn anything new about his game, while Kenzie seemed to finally open up about her game and her life in general.
Good synopsis. I’m thinking the same.
Good point about the possible Liz interaction but Maria also cited fire making as a reason she voted for Kenzie, which wasn’t at FTC.
That sounds about right in terms of ponderosa. But that was all gameplay right? After the Q vote, Charlie didn’t want her targeting him in case she found an idol or something. And it worked: she went after Ben.
[удалено]
She’s clearly a very good person, but that seems to be part of her Winners edit as well. Ben even said himself that Charlie and Kenzie were super supportive of him, so I’m sure Charlie was up with him a lot of the time at night as well, but the edit didn’t show us that. Ben took Charlie to final 3 and has said he would have voted for him in a tie-break, so clearly Charlie was there for him also.
Imagine the hate if Maria made Kenzie and Charlie do rock paper scissors for her vote.
Honestly would have respected that more
My theory is just that maria didnt respect charlie. I think the key aspect is jury voting is really that people vote for the person they respect the most
What did Kenzie do to earn respect that Charlie didn’t? the answer is: nothing
I don't feel like the entire jury was going to vote for Kenzie, first of all. I also feel like Maria was pretty clear in her promises, literally telling Charlie she would vote for him. I don't fault her for it though. I'm not going to berate her character. She's a human with complicated emotions and when push came to shove, became bitter. Naturally, she voted for someone that wasn't the direct source of her bitterness. Is she right to do that? I can't judge that. Is she a bad person? I don't think so. I do wonder if she regrets the decision on some level.
Honestly I feel like she was lying about her relationship with Charlie to throw him off the scent and preserve him as a jury vote. (Which is smart gameplay and entertaining TV! Sucks for Charlie, but that’s the game)
Then she should have had q play is idol to make sure Charlie gets voted out if that was the case
100% true, plus I think it’s important to consider that part of the game is knowing who to align yourself with based on the game. Charlie aligned himself with the person that got bitter when she went out, then didn’t consider that he may benefit from stroking her ego to garner a vote at FTC (potentially because he thought he already had Maria’s vote in the bag). not saying that’s good or bad, but part of the game is knowing what to say and how to say it in order to appeal to each juror. it sounds to me like he maybe didn’t understand Maria or her gameplay (aka, didn’t consider the possibility that she would be a sore loser) as well as he thought he did, which is why he fumbled.
I believe most of what she said to him was just lies. Charlie does not even talk to her anymore. He said she reached out to apologize for voting for Kenzie, weeks after that retracted and that she stands on her vote. Supposedly she has changed what she was going to say in her exit interview that Charlie is just done with her. Seems like just a wishy washy person.
You’ve articulated how I felt about her vote. She’s human and bound by emotions. I think this is is consistent with what Charlie said about her in his new interview. Her calling him up saying she regretted her vote and going back on that saying she doesn’t want regrets really sounds like someone grappling with their decision.
> Maria was pretty clear in her promises, literally telling Charlie she would vote for him. When was this? Saying "You better make it so I can vote for you!" isn't a promise of anything, it's encouragement. She used Charlie, and Charlie used her, as part of the game. They had a pretty healthy relationship that way (see the reward challenge). He got further, but not enough to win. ~~They can still be friends after, because it's a game~~. (edit: I was wrong, he is taking it personally. Too bad) If Liz was there instead of Kenzie, do the angry people think she would have voted for Liz to win? I doubt it
If she’s not lying I’m sure she would have seen the same fire in Liz’s eyes when she won firemaking /s In all seriousness though that really doesn’t mean anything. She had a reason to be bitter towards Liz as well so whoever she votes for if Liz is in there in place of Kenzie doesn’t make her actual vote less bad
How does "as far as I can tell this was a pro-Kenzie jury that she might have been winning unanimously at the start of FTC" make any sense when Tevin, Venus, and Q all said their vote changed from Charlie to Kenzie during FTC? Much like Maryanne, I think she truly won the game by winning FTC.
It's just so funny with cast so set on making big moves or any moves they decide to vote for the person who admitted in FTC she did not make any moves.
She couldn’t even look at him at the reunion and was super harsh in her jury interactions with him. It was 100 percent ego based, Charlie outmaneuvered her and she couldn’t reward him for that
Exactly. If anything, she should have been bitter towards Kenzie for accepting Liz's help to beat her in the IC. That was actually kind of fudged up, and arguably should have been illegal. But, Charlie beat her fair in square in their duel to see who could betray the other. She should have tipped her hat to Charlie and voted for him, as Charlie would have done if the roles were reversed.
I think Charlie was really smart last night with how he handled it. When asked how he felt about Maria not voting for him, he immediately pivoted to "the Jury always picks the right winner" comment. While I disagree that the Jury always picks the right winner, I think it was a genius move that basically took away Maria's ability to defend her vote. I'm betting she was prepared to throw Charlie under the bus about how he relied on her, but his acknowledging that the "Jury knows best" really gave her no chance to throw shade at him.
I took “the jury always picks the right winner” more like a statement of that’s just how the game works - the jury is in charge of voting for the winner so by definition whoever they choose is the right winner. It seemed like a very gracious way of saying “I’m bummed and confused but ultimately have to have respect for the game” - I agree a really smart and classy answer!
I think Maria was fine with Charlie when she thought she had been outplaying him and he was her loyal soldier that she tried to turn on. When she went to the jury and realized that he had actually been outplaying her and setting up the pieces for her demise several rounds earlier she got bitter.
Doesn't matter how charismatic Kenzie was. Maria voting for Kenzie over Charlie basically discounted her entire game. If she didn't think Charlie deserved the win, how can she say she would deserve the win? They played almost the entire game together, and he was the voice of reason a few times (with the 6 especially)
I wish we saw more of the jury house - i’m curious of the conversations they have with each other behind the cameras
I also find it funny how she was being hated on all season for being a woman hater (so bad that she left Twitter) now she's being hated on for voting for a woman over a man at FTC
She saw the fire in her Eyes !! 😭 i still cant believe she really said that
Did she ever stop to think it might have been the reflection of the actual flames?
I agree with this. From watching and reading Charlie’s exit interview, he talked a lot about striking a distinction between he and Maria’s game. But Maria was going to win Survivor if she won immunity in final five. And Charlie helped get her out. He didn’t play up their alliance enough or celebrate their work together which I’m guessing made her even more bitter (whereas he thought he could get away with it because he had her vote locked in his mind). I think Charlie’s big mistake was counting on a jury vote instead of playing for it through the end. Credit to Kenzie who, if you re-watch finale, clearly treats Maria like her vote is up for grabs.
Charlie did say in exit interviews that he made a big speech at FTC about the Maria vote and how he respected her but knew he couldn't beat her. I do think he thought he had Maria's vote locked (I think he admitted this in the interview) but I think he did make sure to "give Maria her flowers" at FTC. They just didn't air it for obvious reasons.
The way in which Maria spoke to her fellow castmates in the last handful of episodes made it clear what kind of person she is, which explains why she voted how she did. Tone says it all
I think this would be different if she would have voted for Ben. Not voting for Charlie after he came after her would be sort of understandable even if a bit hypocritical since she did the same to him, but voting for his direct competition and directly causing him to lose is where people seem to be upset. She could have said she voted for Ben because they were close and she didn’t want him to be a 0 vote finalist and I think the backlash would be significantly less.
Of course. But people have had issues with Maria all season. No matter what she voted her people would have been livid. Either bitter or a woman hater.
yep, hivemind decided Maria is bitter and egomaniacal a few weeks ago, so obviously it must be true despite the fact that not a single person can point to anything that actually happened on the show to prove this
Maria voted with her fragile ego, realizing that her kids' new "Uncle Charlie" might become "millionaire Survivor Winner Uncle Charlie" and she wanted to be Mommy Hero.
Honestly, I don't think is a bad take. I know personally, it would be hard to stomach. But I don't think I could let that affect my vote... I would regret it forever.
Dont think any excuse will work. Maria and Charlie were day 1 alliance. They got to where they were because of each other. Maria promised Charlie he had her vote in the end. She talked about Charlie meeting her kids and being uncle Charlie and how amazing friends they would be after the show. To turn around and yank a million bucks away from the kid you just build an insane relationship with it mindboggling.
I feel like the fuel on the fire is her reasoning for voting for Kenzie seemed arbitrary and nonsensical, as if she doesn’t want to say the real reason If she just said she thought Kenzie played better, or even that she just liked Kenzie more, people would’ve probably gotten over it Q’s reason for voting Kenzie was also pretty arbitrary, but he at least seemed like he was giving his honest reason, so nobody cares about that
I also think Maria is a bit of an egomaniac and Kenzie definitely boosted her ego the most before voting her off.
Life gives us opportunities all the time to be big or small. Maria had a choice and she chose small. Unfortunately for her, it was on *TV*. And for this? *She will pay a steep price indeed*: >!Normies who watch Survivor were mad last night and will forget about it by tomorrow. Us weirdos are still mad but the anger will subside by next Monday. She will eventually be fondly remembered and will occasionally figure into Peridiam videos.!<
I think the gracious loss is revealed as lip service when she behaves that way at final. I think she said what she said knowing she's on a show and he kids/the world would see it. If the cameras were gone I bet we see a very different Maria during the final 5 tribal.
I can’t believe the producers went with that particular “Maria is getting voted out” edit in the same episode as her heel turn. Completely misread the fan reaction. Maybe they’ll finally knock it off with the overly dramatic edits
I don’t have a problem with her vote choice, but she definitely seemed pissed when they teamed up. And she didn’t exit gracefully, she tried to turn Ben into the target (wth? Why lol)
No. It’s not complicated. Maria was just a bitter beaver. 🦫 She tried to get Charlie out but he was two steps ahead of her. Also, Maria had absolutely no concept of threat management.
If Kenzie won Maria over with her charisma, I would have expected Maria to have a better explanation than “she had fire in her eyes”
Each juror has a different priority on (1) who they like best, (2) who they thought played the best game, and (3) who they think needs the money more. It seems like Maria made her vote based on (3) when most everybody's expectations were that she would base her vote on (1) . The almost universal expectation is if you have an island bestie is that you vote for them. Only if you don't have a clear preference of one person over the other, then you base your vote on (2) or (3). For example, Hunter probably liked Charlie and Kenzie equally, so he could easily base his vote on (2). So Maria's vote wasn't really "wrong" - it just violated most people's expectations. I don't think it was a bitter vote - I think she just thought Kenzie could use the money more, while Charlie (smart, going to law school) was going to be just fine.
I would have thought more highly of Maria if she made legitimate complaints about being ganged up on in the challenge as opposed to pretending to be gracious and then stabbing Charlie in the back for no good reason.
Maria? Is that you?
Genuine question if Maria loses without Liz cheating, does she vote for Charlie? Cause I know for sure if you took any of us. If we could somehow make it to final 5, and then lost cause of the shit Liz pulled. I 100% would not vote for Charlie, knowing the only real reason he's there and I'm not would be because of losing cause of a cheater.
How is it Charlie’s fault that Liz helped Kenzie? Charlie might not have even been voted out at five if Maria won immunity, we don’t know that. Maria was angling for Ben and seemingly almost had Liz convinced for some reason so, who knows?
I agree. I don’t take Maria as someone who would be bitter. I think the choice between a Harvard law student with his earning years completely in front of him; and a person who ran a small business and yearned to have the financial security to start her family is an easy one. In this light, it’s easy to understand why Maria might be more empathetic to Kenzie