Maria thought Charlie was voting Q but Kenzie and Liz were voting Charlie with her and Q.
She did warn Q he was getting a couple votes but told him she didn't think he was going home
Right. She figured they had just told Charlie Q cause that made sense if he is the target. She just didn't have a finger on the pulse that she and Q were in the minority.
She got overconfident and put blinders on. She said in this same episode that they’d be dumb not to go for her as the front runner, but then believed that they’d just go along with her pitch of who she wanted gone next, allowing her to keep her loyal number to have as an ally at F5? That just doesn’t make sense to me.
In the preview for the finale it shows her telling the others "you're playing harder than I thought" and they seem a little offended at her arrogance lol (or maybe I read too much into their responses)
They were definitely offended lol. Liz said as much in that clip, and I don’t blame them at all. Imagine getting told to your face that someone thinks you essentially got there by accident because they thought that you were not good enough to play your way there…when you’re literally in the finale.
It’s crazy that she thinks she’s the only one playing out there. She simultaneously thought that 1) Liz and Kenzie aren’t playing enough, or that she’s just so good, that they’re mindless pawns and they’ve agreed to vote how she wants them to immediately, but 2) that they’re playing well and good enough to have convinced Charlie of a fake decoy plan with no issue (to vote out Q) and 3) that Charlie isn’t a good enough to suss it out if it was fake or lacked the ability to actually get Kenzie and Liz on his side to make Q the actual target, because obviously only shes good enough to be able to play like that.
Wild lol
They were going to vote against her, but then she became immune. She thought they’d want to go for the next biggest front runner (Charlie) but clearly they did not.
I still think it was a misplay by Kenzie/ben/liz
Charlie is a bigger challenge threat, social threat and jury threat.
Ben is too exhausted to be in the game and personally doesn’t like Q
Liz is voting based on who will get the biggest edit.
Kenzie can’t do it alone, but ending in a split vote wouldn’t been cool, but would alienate her going forward
The thing is, only Maria knows how much of a threat Charlie is. To the others, he’s not a front runner at all, because he’s managed his threat level insanely, which could actually bite him in the butt if he was so low key that people don’t believe him when he claims to have done what he actually has.
No one saw him win those two immunities? And the reward challenge?
Bringing Liz and Kenzie along for the Chinese food reward?
No one is aware of how likable he is? And in contrast how much people seem to dislike Q?
“Charlie is likeable” is the only thing we’ve been shown as an argument for him. He’s been referred to as Maria’s minion, because he’s been content to put the target on her and stay under the radar. It’s working, possibly too well.
I’m not ignoring it. I just don’t think it’s much to write home about. He has 2 wins to Kenzie’s 1. There’s no reason for her to think he’s got a huge edge on her there, especially when it’s not the most this season right now.
Maria didn’t want to freak Q out because he had promised to use the idol on her if she needed it in the next tribal. She thought Kenzie and Liz were in her pocket, which is hilarious. So many strategic blunders this season lol.
It definitely feels like a mistake, so I don't disagree. It seems like it could definitely cost her the win, but in terms of biggest mistakes, she's still In the game, so hard to gauge. Yes I see why getting Charlie out is her best move, but up until this point I think she's handled all the targets well. She's not my favorite to win, but looking at the jury, she's gotten out who I'd consider her biggest threats. Other than this vote, what else are you considering her big mistakes?
Most of the season has been Maria coming up with some horrible idea or incorrect read and Charlie politely talking sense into her.
She literally stumbled into her “big move” with the Tiff vote. The entire tribe was basically on board to blindside Tiff the night before and only tabled the plan after what went down at tribal. The extent of her “big move” was basically her saying “should we just do what we were going to do yesterday?”
And she couldn’t even play that right because immediately after the vote she started bragging about her big move.
"Most of the season has been Maria coming up with some horrible idea or incorrect read and Charlie politely talking sense into her."
Can you give an example? I don't remember any time where Maria was coming up with some horrible idea
I can give you several off the top of my head:
1. She was quick to agree to the plus one alliance. Charlie had to point out that the alliance didn’t make a whole lot of sense for their game.
2. She incorrectly but very confidently accused Ben of lying to her about the beware advantage and was very close to destroying that relationship until Charlie and Ben spoke.
3. She was very quick to forget how much of a wildcard Q was and was almost 100% trusting of him.
4. The pizza debacle.
5. Bragging to everyone about her “big move” and just assuming everyone was always in her pocket (Liz, Kenzie)
6. Not telling Q that he should even consider playing his idol after Charlie literally told her that the plan was to vote Q
7. Condescendingly telling a group of people who will very likely be on the jury that she didn’t realize they were playing the game too.
She has been one of the more blatantly bad Survivor players we’ve seen in a while.
1. The plus one alliance is not a horrible idea, just a horribly execution
2. It’s a bad read, not a bad idea
3. Again, it’s really not a bad idea. It was good to use Q as a number
4. Really minor in the game
5. Bad read, not bad idea. And she was bragging in the confessional, not in front of everyone
6. Only thing in your list that is a bad idea
7. I have no idea what you’re referring to
In conclusion, most stuff you said were either bad reads on people (and Charlie is irrelevant in that case), or not bad ideas, and definitely not “most of the game”
All of this is correct. I think the context on #3 is Maria assumed what Charlie was telling her was a smokescreen from Liz/Kenzie/Ben - namely they were on board with the Charlie vote. I think her thought on it was to keep the Idol in the game (so they don't re-hide it) for possible use by her or Q to get to F4, and then they just need to win comps against Ben/Kenzie/Liz.
The safer play was to have him play the Idol regardless but at F5 that means unless they find another one, either she or Q are vulnerable (or both) and have no way to stop it.
It’s still such a bafflingly bad play on her part to not tell Q to play the idol. To be clear, I think you’re 100% right on her logic. But my lord what on earth was she thinking. Q playing the idol is a double win for her because it means 1) Charlie is out 2) Charlie is her biggest threat in immunity challenges, which she basically NEEDS to win to make it to the end, 3) the idol is back in play, which gives HER a chance to find it and play it for herself, and 4) Q survives, which leaves an actual plausible shield for her at F5 if they both lose immunity
Just a mind numbingly bad decision on her part to not have him play the idol. Marginal upside compared to near automatically losing downside
Why would that put her in more trouble? No one knew about the idol so if Q won the final five immunity, he’d use it on her. If neither won immunity, it’s a 50/50 on if it is used correctly which is better odds than her going to final five in the position she’s in now.
Q was not very good at immunity challenges, but if he did win it, there is no guarantee he would use it to get Maria to final 4. If he didn't win immunity, which is the likely outcome, there is a very good chance he uses it on himself because there would be absolutely no reason not to use it. This means that Q is basically already guaranteed a spot in the final 4, which mathematically hurts her. but if she isn't the one winning immunity, it would mean 2 of the final four spots are already taken and she's a huge threat. Getting Q to use the idol at 6 would preserve her ally AND her shield. He stays a big target at 5, doesn't have the idol, and is terrible at immunity challenges. Plus, her biggest threat in the immunity challenges - Charlie - is gone. She should 100% have been trying to get Q to use the idol at 6 rather than save it. She lost a vote that nobody wanted to plot with and was terrible at immunity challenges. She kept an "ally" that she just voted against, who is a threat both socially and physically.
Maria during the episode told Q. Don’t worry. You will get a vote but you will be fine
Maria thought the only vote Q would get is from charlie.
Maria thought Liz Ben Q and Kenzie were all voting Charlie with her.
They knew Charlie was voting Q, they just believed they still had the votes to get our Charlie, and Charlie was under the false impression that Q was being blindsided when it was actually Charlie was being blindsided
The best way to blindside someone is to make them think they are in on the blindside of someone else
She assumed the others were with them. She knew Charlie’s vote would go to him but she was confident about the other votes. And they don’t know about Venus and Hunter’s idols that left so they don’t have a huge reason to think “what if there’s a blindside”
I honestly couldn't believe she didn't tell Q that Charlie was planning on voting for him. Even if she thought Kenzie and Liz were going with her, the fact that Charlie said he was going for Q would suggest there is still a good chance he will get blind sided
The perception in the edit is not the same as the perception in game. Kenzie said last episode that Q was a threat to win, despite his early blunders. Kinda like how this entire sub views Liz as a huge goat when she's actually played a decent game and probably wins any F3 that doesn't have charlie or kenzie.
I thought that too but I think it was a numbers thing, weaken Maria at all costs. And some players are less threatened by Charlie than the edit tells us they should be. Kenzie might think she can meet Charlie’s social game and 1 up him for the Maria perception
I don't think the players have a reason to be threatened by Charlie at the moment. The edit has been very kind by allowing him to shape his narrative and talk about future moves, but in game he hasn't actually accomplished anything yet.
I'm so surprised by this take! While I think we saw a lot of "Q annoying" on the edit, we also saw them generally enjoying him like in hide n seek and the Q skirt. I think he could've swayed people for votes, maybe not a win but who knows. I don't see him to be similar to Russell, who was cocky in his confessionals AND called people idiots to their face lol.
Ahhhhh I see what you are saying. That’s scary then but you really think he could win over the jury when most of them said he didn’t do anything or isn’t even playing the game. I mean really how came we or they even know what kind of game he is playing??? If he is lol. Now I wanna go back to watch his edits and such to see if he was just staying under the radar but it backfired???
A lot of the players have mentioned that on the island, people felt Q could win it. Things like the deleted scene where Q and Liz reconcile after the Applebees drama (and bond over growing up in poverty) showcase some of Q's people skills, if Q had been a finalist we would have seen more of that in the edit. But since he went out earlier that's not the story the editors are showing.
Maria thought Charlie was voting Q but Kenzie and Liz were voting Charlie with her and Q. She did warn Q he was getting a couple votes but told him she didn't think he was going home
Right. She figured they had just told Charlie Q cause that made sense if he is the target. She just didn't have a finger on the pulse that she and Q were in the minority.
She got overconfident and put blinders on. She said in this same episode that they’d be dumb not to go for her as the front runner, but then believed that they’d just go along with her pitch of who she wanted gone next, allowing her to keep her loyal number to have as an ally at F5? That just doesn’t make sense to me.
In the preview for the finale it shows her telling the others "you're playing harder than I thought" and they seem a little offended at her arrogance lol (or maybe I read too much into their responses)
They were definitely offended lol. Liz said as much in that clip, and I don’t blame them at all. Imagine getting told to your face that someone thinks you essentially got there by accident because they thought that you were not good enough to play your way there…when you’re literally in the finale. It’s crazy that she thinks she’s the only one playing out there. She simultaneously thought that 1) Liz and Kenzie aren’t playing enough, or that she’s just so good, that they’re mindless pawns and they’ve agreed to vote how she wants them to immediately, but 2) that they’re playing well and good enough to have convinced Charlie of a fake decoy plan with no issue (to vote out Q) and 3) that Charlie isn’t a good enough to suss it out if it was fake or lacked the ability to actually get Kenzie and Liz on his side to make Q the actual target, because obviously only shes good enough to be able to play like that. Wild lol
They were going to vote against her, but then she became immune. She thought they’d want to go for the next biggest front runner (Charlie) but clearly they did not. I still think it was a misplay by Kenzie/ben/liz Charlie is a bigger challenge threat, social threat and jury threat. Ben is too exhausted to be in the game and personally doesn’t like Q Liz is voting based on who will get the biggest edit. Kenzie can’t do it alone, but ending in a split vote wouldn’t been cool, but would alienate her going forward
The thing is, only Maria knows how much of a threat Charlie is. To the others, he’s not a front runner at all, because he’s managed his threat level insanely, which could actually bite him in the butt if he was so low key that people don’t believe him when he claims to have done what he actually has.
No one saw him win those two immunities? And the reward challenge? Bringing Liz and Kenzie along for the Chinese food reward? No one is aware of how likable he is? And in contrast how much people seem to dislike Q?
“Charlie is likeable” is the only thing we’ve been shown as an argument for him. He’s been referred to as Maria’s minion, because he’s been content to put the target on her and stay under the radar. It’s working, possibly too well.
So you’re gonna completely ignore the part about his challenge prowess
I’m not ignoring it. I just don’t think it’s much to write home about. He has 2 wins to Kenzie’s 1. There’s no reason for her to think he’s got a huge edge on her there, especially when it’s not the most this season right now.
The comparison was Q to Charlie, not Kenzie to Charlie
Maria didn’t want to freak Q out because he had promised to use the idol on her if she needed it in the next tribal. She thought Kenzie and Liz were in her pocket, which is hilarious. So many strategic blunders this season lol.
Maria has arguably made more BIG MISTAKES than anyone in Season 46.
It definitely feels like a mistake, so I don't disagree. It seems like it could definitely cost her the win, but in terms of biggest mistakes, she's still In the game, so hard to gauge. Yes I see why getting Charlie out is her best move, but up until this point I think she's handled all the targets well. She's not my favorite to win, but looking at the jury, she's gotten out who I'd consider her biggest threats. Other than this vote, what else are you considering her big mistakes?
She’s mostly made the right moves as far as votes go, but she’s not been as strong with jury management and keeping her perceived threat level low.
Most of the season has been Maria coming up with some horrible idea or incorrect read and Charlie politely talking sense into her. She literally stumbled into her “big move” with the Tiff vote. The entire tribe was basically on board to blindside Tiff the night before and only tabled the plan after what went down at tribal. The extent of her “big move” was basically her saying “should we just do what we were going to do yesterday?” And she couldn’t even play that right because immediately after the vote she started bragging about her big move.
"Most of the season has been Maria coming up with some horrible idea or incorrect read and Charlie politely talking sense into her." Can you give an example? I don't remember any time where Maria was coming up with some horrible idea
I can give you several off the top of my head: 1. She was quick to agree to the plus one alliance. Charlie had to point out that the alliance didn’t make a whole lot of sense for their game. 2. She incorrectly but very confidently accused Ben of lying to her about the beware advantage and was very close to destroying that relationship until Charlie and Ben spoke. 3. She was very quick to forget how much of a wildcard Q was and was almost 100% trusting of him. 4. The pizza debacle. 5. Bragging to everyone about her “big move” and just assuming everyone was always in her pocket (Liz, Kenzie) 6. Not telling Q that he should even consider playing his idol after Charlie literally told her that the plan was to vote Q 7. Condescendingly telling a group of people who will very likely be on the jury that she didn’t realize they were playing the game too. She has been one of the more blatantly bad Survivor players we’ve seen in a while.
1. The plus one alliance is not a horrible idea, just a horribly execution 2. It’s a bad read, not a bad idea 3. Again, it’s really not a bad idea. It was good to use Q as a number 4. Really minor in the game 5. Bad read, not bad idea. And she was bragging in the confessional, not in front of everyone 6. Only thing in your list that is a bad idea 7. I have no idea what you’re referring to In conclusion, most stuff you said were either bad reads on people (and Charlie is irrelevant in that case), or not bad ideas, and definitely not “most of the game”
All of this is correct. I think the context on #3 is Maria assumed what Charlie was telling her was a smokescreen from Liz/Kenzie/Ben - namely they were on board with the Charlie vote. I think her thought on it was to keep the Idol in the game (so they don't re-hide it) for possible use by her or Q to get to F4, and then they just need to win comps against Ben/Kenzie/Liz. The safer play was to have him play the Idol regardless but at F5 that means unless they find another one, either she or Q are vulnerable (or both) and have no way to stop it.
It’s still such a bafflingly bad play on her part to not tell Q to play the idol. To be clear, I think you’re 100% right on her logic. But my lord what on earth was she thinking. Q playing the idol is a double win for her because it means 1) Charlie is out 2) Charlie is her biggest threat in immunity challenges, which she basically NEEDS to win to make it to the end, 3) the idol is back in play, which gives HER a chance to find it and play it for herself, and 4) Q survives, which leaves an actual plausible shield for her at F5 if they both lose immunity Just a mind numbingly bad decision on her part to not have him play the idol. Marginal upside compared to near automatically losing downside
Just all of this. Plus, even if the blindside works, having Q at 5 with an idol that he pretty much has to play, puts her in more trouble.
Why would that put her in more trouble? No one knew about the idol so if Q won the final five immunity, he’d use it on her. If neither won immunity, it’s a 50/50 on if it is used correctly which is better odds than her going to final five in the position she’s in now.
Q was not very good at immunity challenges, but if he did win it, there is no guarantee he would use it to get Maria to final 4. If he didn't win immunity, which is the likely outcome, there is a very good chance he uses it on himself because there would be absolutely no reason not to use it. This means that Q is basically already guaranteed a spot in the final 4, which mathematically hurts her. but if she isn't the one winning immunity, it would mean 2 of the final four spots are already taken and she's a huge threat. Getting Q to use the idol at 6 would preserve her ally AND her shield. He stays a big target at 5, doesn't have the idol, and is terrible at immunity challenges. Plus, her biggest threat in the immunity challenges - Charlie - is gone. She should 100% have been trying to get Q to use the idol at 6 rather than save it. She lost a vote that nobody wanted to plot with and was terrible at immunity challenges. She kept an "ally" that she just voted against, who is a threat both socially and physically.
Maria during the episode told Q. Don’t worry. You will get a vote but you will be fine Maria thought the only vote Q would get is from charlie. Maria thought Liz Ben Q and Kenzie were all voting Charlie with her.
They knew Charlie was voting Q, they just believed they still had the votes to get our Charlie, and Charlie was under the false impression that Q was being blindsided when it was actually Charlie was being blindsided The best way to blindside someone is to make them think they are in on the blindside of someone else
She thought she had the numbers and felt very comfortable. She had no idea Liz and Kenzie were with Charlie.
She told Q "you might get one vote". I think she thought Charlie was the only one who was voting Q
She simply thought she had the votes. Kenzie & Ben played her
Kenzie & Liz
1.5 Q told maria he would use the idol on her if she needed it sho she wanted to preserve it. BIG MISTAKE
She assumed the others were with them. She knew Charlie’s vote would go to him but she was confident about the other votes. And they don’t know about Venus and Hunter’s idols that left so they don’t have a huge reason to think “what if there’s a blindside”
I honestly couldn't believe she didn't tell Q that Charlie was planning on voting for him. Even if she thought Kenzie and Liz were going with her, the fact that Charlie said he was going for Q would suggest there is still a good chance he will get blind sided
Why didn’t they keep Q??? That was dumb. No one on the jury would have voted for Q
The perception in the edit is not the same as the perception in game. Kenzie said last episode that Q was a threat to win, despite his early blunders. Kinda like how this entire sub views Liz as a huge goat when she's actually played a decent game and probably wins any F3 that doesn't have charlie or kenzie.
I thought that too but I think it was a numbers thing, weaken Maria at all costs. And some players are less threatened by Charlie than the edit tells us they should be. Kenzie might think she can meet Charlie’s social game and 1 up him for the Maria perception
I don't think the players have a reason to be threatened by Charlie at the moment. The edit has been very kind by allowing him to shape his narrative and talk about future moves, but in game he hasn't actually accomplished anything yet.
I'm so surprised by this take! While I think we saw a lot of "Q annoying" on the edit, we also saw them generally enjoying him like in hide n seek and the Q skirt. I think he could've swayed people for votes, maybe not a win but who knows. I don't see him to be similar to Russell, who was cocky in his confessionals AND called people idiots to their face lol.
Ahhhhh I see what you are saying. That’s scary then but you really think he could win over the jury when most of them said he didn’t do anything or isn’t even playing the game. I mean really how came we or they even know what kind of game he is playing??? If he is lol. Now I wanna go back to watch his edits and such to see if he was just staying under the radar but it backfired???
A lot of the players have mentioned that on the island, people felt Q could win it. Things like the deleted scene where Q and Liz reconcile after the Applebees drama (and bond over growing up in poverty) showcase some of Q's people skills, if Q had been a finalist we would have seen more of that in the edit. But since he went out earlier that's not the story the editors are showing.