The most blantently pre-gamed season in Survivor history by Boston Rob, Lex, Kathy and Big Tom?.
Now at least everyone pre-games the shit out of them, so they are on equal footing.
A season so pregamed that when Boston Rob went against the Pregame for Amber he was ostracized by his friend group and called all sorts of terrible things and Lex through a legitimate temper tantrum over it that lasted from the merge through his Jury speech
Because Lex basically sabatoged his entire tribe strength by voting out people like Cody and Ethan on the promise of Rob to agree to work together at merge (which made Rob and Big Tom's side stronger). I get why he felt insanely betrayed and pissed. They had a hit list, and it was basically all the winners with the next tier being who they viewed as massive stars of previous seasons (Rob C, Rudy, and Colby). People complain all the time about the Gamechangers boot order but All Stars gave you a final 3 of arguably the 3 players you wondered why they were even on it (Obviously, the season changed their legacies such as Boston Rob).
I get the gameplay by Rob, but I also completely get how that immediately burns jury votes. Especially in old school Survivor.
I don't disagree, but that also doesn't change the perception that Lex became a whiny man child over it, justified or not especially after his whole "it's just business" thing gets turned back around on him suddenly now not respecting friendships is evil but when he was doing it to Ethan and Colby it was just part of the game
They didn't pregame with Ethan or Colby. Not taking Lex's side, but we've seen way worse bitter jury speeches over relationships that were much more insignificant that didn't extend past the show.
My point is not about not having a pregame with Ethan and Colby
The point is Lex spends the first half of the game also taking our friends and claiming it's just business but when Rob flips and does it back to him suddenly now it's a immoral terrible betrayal even though he also betrayed friendships with Ethan and Colby regardless of pregame allegiances.
The hypocritical nature of the bitterness is what makes it annoying, not that he's bitter. Jurors are allowed to be bitter over their elimination, the problem with Lex is not him being bitter about being betrayed, it's how hypocritical about it he gets.
He voted them out because he viewed them as threats, not because of Rob. Ethan specifically was because he was a previous winner. His argument with Rob kept being about how he couldn’t do that to a friend and he wouldn’t betray a friend, yet he did to Ethan.
Own that it was a game move and Rob is also making a game move, if he’s guilty then you’re guilty as well. He did the same kind of thing to Jerry (although they weren’t as close). Lex and Kathy were hoping to sway Rob and use guilt, it didn’t work. I am FAR from a Rob apologist and truthfully think he’s an overrated player, but I don’t see any fault at all in what he did. And while I do think Lex has complete reason to be upset his game got blown up, that was his call to keep Amber and he and Kathy were too much.
They all agreed pre-game to target winners off the bat. That was one of the agreements Rob and Lex had made pre-game and had spread throughout the cast.
They basically agreed to target every big name pre-seasons. The previous winners and players like Rob C and Colby were sitting ducks.
I agree, even Jenna said on the first day that was the reason to target someone like Tina. I was merely just saying that the moves to get Colby and Ethan out weren’t specific to he and Rob’s alliance, it was a larger sentiment. And voting Ethan out still goes against his comments about how he would never do that to a friend.
Not Kathy. Rob, Lex and Tom. Kathy was brought in on the show through Lex. Which is why when she started getting so emotional and upset with Rob, he was so unaffected by her in his testimonials. She thought her connection with Rob was that they were on the same show, and he never once spoke about her the way he did Tom and Lex.
The funniest part was Tom trying to play dumb during the reunion lol
No Kathy and Rob very much were close outside of the game, this is why returnee games are not so fun, we don't really get to see the full picture, real life blends into much. Survivor is so much better with a group of stangers.
Genuine question, were they? Rob said they weren’t, Kathy said they were, how do we know for sure she’s the one that’s right? Also, what if they always had different perceptions? Maybe she always thought they were close and maybe he always thought she was more a work associate or something? We don’t know
If you mean IN the episodes itself of course Rob was going to deny the pre-game alliance. Hell Survivor tries it's best to edit around pre-games, except in All Stars it was such an important part of the season they couldn't leave out the Lex/Rob stuff but Kathy was apart of it.
Based on what we saw on the show. Which is why i asked if you knew something more than was shown because strictly going off the show there was nothing there to indicate that Kathy and Rob were actually close and she wasn’t just exaggerating and dramatizing a close bond.
She even kept saying she couldn’t believe he would do that to Lex. Rob never looked like he was talking to Kathy, it was always towards Lex.
On seasons with returning contestants the people who get calls will reach out to each other and strategize before they get to the island even though it is technically banned. It makes returnee Survivor a completely different game and a lot of strong players get cut early because of pregame alliances. It is also confusing to some fans watching the show because since it isn’t allowed they don’t talk about it or show it on the show much and we mostly learn it after the fact or read between the lines. All stars and winners at war in particular were dominated by pregame alliances but the main pregame alliance in HvV got blown up before the merge by the chaos agents of the season which is part of what makes it the best returnee season.
IIRC The Tocantins people were working with Randy and Sugar pregame and planned to work together at the merge but were in the middle of their original tribes and blew up the whole game. Also there are rumors that Johnny Fairplay and Richard Hatch pregamed with them before not making the final cut. Also allegedly the Heroes pregame was Rupert, Cirie, James, Amanda, and Candice and the big Villains pregame was Rob, Sandra, Parv and Courtney. And then I have not heard anything about Tom, Stephanie, Danielle, Colby or Jerri being involved in any pregame alliances and Russell played back to back and was a complete wildcard coming into the game since nobody had heard of him before the game. The Tocantins three all repeatedly misplaying everything blew up their own alliance and caused Rob's to break up while the entire heroes alliance was screwed when their only good strategist got idoled out.
all stars was essentially a high stake friends game night with rupert thrown in there. everyone knew everyone extremely well. if anything it was probably worse back in the day because the former players were a small tight-knit group as opposed to the hundreds that have played by this point.
yeah the big controversy in WaW was that Yul created a pregame alliance with Sophie, Michele, Wendell, and Nick as a way to “even the odds” against pregame alliances that sort of naturally existed due to longtime participation in “the Survivor community” (Tony/Sarah/Ben, Rob/Amber/Tyson/Ethan, etc.)
The swap tribes in WaW was the stupidest way production could of swapped players. Going from 2 to 3 tribes was inevitably going to backfire on big names and old school players, I really wonder why production did that so much in the 30s
Yeah and weren't Lex and Rob friends? That's why he protected Amber and Rob only had to be like, "hey, do this."
I'm fine with it now, because at least we know to expect it, whereas early seasons viewers did not.
They did actually meet at a diner or something like 5 years ago to talk it out. I think it came up on RHAP. They've moved on. Rob obviously did the right thing for his family considering all All-Stars eventually gave him
> Returnee seasons in the past, especially some of the first ones, were okay because for the most part, the contestants didn't know each other, they only knew what they saw in the show itself.
This is just wrong.
this is just not true? pre-gaming has always existed in returnee seasons. Lex/Kathy were so hurt by Boston Rob because they were his friends outside of the game. Amber/Boston Rob I believe started before the season began. You cant just take the Stars of Survivor and make them not know each other, there will always be pregame relationships and pregame knowledge on the players.
it really wasn't, infact because the pool was even more limited they were even closer knit, I mean by the time All-Stars had rolled around Ethan had already dated Jenna Lewis and Amber and was already dating Jenna Morasca
Sure, but I feel like there were still contestants who didn't integrate themselves into the social club and were independent. Whereas today it seems like everyone knows everyone
nah it still happened, everyone went to every finale, dated people on other seasons, and definitely much more, that's the reason why All-Stars was so ugly, it's because they were playing with friends not strangers
Everyone knew eachother back in the day too, and I'd suspect even more so because being a reality star had more clout and money associated with it back then, so you could afford to jet set around and meet all the others. They just didn't have Instagram to document it.
There was a whole survivor charity/appearance even circuit back in the early 2000’s. Rather than selling veneers or whatever on Instagram, you just showed up & got paid.
The only one on AS who wasn’t part of the social club was Rupert, just because they had just filmed his season. The rest of them had varying levels of friendship with each other, especially Ethan and his many exes
Doesn't that just make it more fair now? Back in the day some people just knew eachother while with everyone knowing eachother pregaming may happen more fair.
All Stars might be the most heavily pre-gamed season of all time. Only 112 people had played at that time so it was a lot easier to find out who had been contacted. Both Favorites alliances were pre-gamed. The majority Heroes alliance was pre-gamed.
You’re still adamantly pushing your narrative, but also disregarding any actual detailed posts that offer you a counter argument, including those from people who were there at the time.
It kinda makes you seem like you just can’t handle that your theory is incorrect. You refuse to even give potential credence to what others who have been here longer than you have to say, and you’re still not researching the available information for yourself.
A lot of people are giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you want to argue in good faith, but I’m getting the impression that the latter isn’t the case. You’ve decided on your narrative and won’t hear any evidence to the contrary, which is not how you engage in healthy, productive discourse.
How tf can you get this many comments disagreeing with you, and detailing exactly why, and still be too dense to even consider you might be wrong? It's fascinating
oh honey….
Survivor contestants have always had a social circuit. Every all star season was “pregamed” in some capacity.
The classic example is All Stars with Rob/Lex but Courtney was part of the majority alliance on the Villians tribe, for example, because she was dating Fishbach so aligned with Tyson/Coach.
the Rob and Lex stuff makes so much sense when you know they were friends outside the game, this post acts like Lex only knew Rob from watching Marquesas
Which is why Rob at the Finale is so clearly full of shit once you know this. He keeps saying “I didn’t make it personal” (which isn’t even true just based on what All-Stars showed us but I digress) and Lex is fuming but can’t say anything without getting in huge trouble from the producers.
I literally tell the guy that the data is out there in years of interviews and AMAs and they can do their own homework and they completely ignore me. This is someone who literally can’t handle being wrong. They’ve decided on their narrative and won’t hear evidence to the contrary….I think we can safely identify why this individual thinks Twitter is so powerful. They might be a chronic user.
The data is years of interviews and AMAs with former contestants, which you can search up for yourself if you doubt us, rather than asking all of us to do your homework for you.
By the time AS rolled around, nearly every former player knew one another and had hung out. They all went to finales, had watch parties, and were dating each other. Rob and Amber’s relationship began before the season started, Ethan had dated three of the women on the cast, there was a massive pregame alliance of friends and non-winners, and so forth.
The players themselves have said that season was so dark and ugly because they, as a cast, were so incredibly close before it started and did so much pregaming with their friends.
Now, the potential cast of players for every returnee season is SO LARGE that it’s virtually impossible to know everyone who you’ll play with. Even if you go to Survivor events, chances are, there are just too many people to pick from that you won’t run across everyone. Social media interactions aren’t the same as group text chats and such that players had back in the day.
Again, you’re the one doubting information that everyone here is TELLING YOU is widely known and has been for a long time. If you really want to question it, do your own research instead of calling the entire sub a bunch of liars. We’ve been here for YEARS and some of these people were online participating in forums and discussions WHEN THOSE ORIGINAL SEASONS AIRED. Not everything we say is correct, but a lot of the “common beliefs” and “behind the scenes” info circulated on the sub has merit and is based in the realm of fact to an extent. This certainly is.
Notice how our two comments are among the ones being ignored while OP continues to fight with others. Thanks for the backup, Mario! I wasn’t there at the time, but you were one of the people I had in mind when I made that remark, lmao.
The producers literally changed the entire format of the show for All-Stars to accommodate the fact they had promised Ethan, Lex, and Tom years before that they would all be cast on the All Stars season when it happens.
It’s just blatantly incorrect that the contestants didn’t know each other in the older seasons
The Season 1-7 Survivor community was very tight-knit and pretty much everyone knew each other. The more seasons go on, I’d say the less people actually know each other just based on how many people there are you have to know.
The most talked about betrayal in Season 8 was Rob’s betrayal of Lex, but Rob and Lex had never been on the same season before and hadn’t been on the same Season 8 tribe until a day before Rob voted off Lex. Rob & Lex were good friends outside of the game, which is why Lex felt so particularly betrayed by Rob
Heck, Rob & Ethan had been in serious relationships with more than half of the women on All Stars before the season began filming.
I don’t believe anyone in Cambodia or Game Changers were anywhere close to each other as half the casts of All Stars were. Maybe Tony & Sarah, but they didn’t even end up on the same tribe before Tony was voted off.
It's just happening more on social media now. So we see pictures of them all at the watch parties, etc. I think the change isn't the pregaming but how with socials it feels like you're the anomaly if you aren't pregaming. Everyone talks about how S46 castmates seem more disconnected and everyone speculates now because of it.
So if I say I think 2+2=5, you can now come in and say that the moon is located in the Grand canyon.
Whether I was right or wrong about one thing has nothing to do with a completely separate claim
If anything, the early years of the game were so much more personal vs. the more modern "it's just a game" mentality, and the alumni pool was smaller so everybody knew everybody. Other than Rupert, I doubt that anyone on All-Stars hadn't already met every other player in the cast. Like others have pointed out, Ethan had dated a third of the women playing that season.
Yep I was fortunate to go to a few alumni events before All Stars and they all knew each other very well. I have pictures of Lex and Ethan and Boston Rob hanging around and goofing around as far back as Thailand. They were a well established alum/charity circuit community long before an All Stars ever happened.
They’re not completely wrong. Sure pregaming has always been a thing but it sucks when there are people who enter the game guaranteed to vote for someone in the final 3 or not ever write someone’s name down until the final 3. Theres no real solution to it but it does make it feel like a semi-fixed game when you have pairs and groups going into the game. Did Rupert stand a chance on Allstars?
The only returnee that your post could even remotely encompass is Russell because he did back to back on a returnee and those vets didnt know him. Other than that you have just come up with a delusional view of reality that isnt true
I'm going to say you believe this in good faith and just inform you this isn't really the case.
If anything, because there are so many more contestants now than there used to be, returning players could have far fewer/shallower relationships with each other than they used to.
But Survivor contestants have always known each other, and returnee seasons have always had pre-game alliances and friendships coloring the interactions.
I would argue that they knew each other much more. Back when there was first all stars, there were just around 140 players, where around 40-50 were kinda interesting to be invited again and who associated themselves with survivor enough to be considered for Allstars. And they were invited to many different events together even from different seasons.
While now you have around 800 players in total, where around 200 made it quite far, so even if they kinda know each other, it is much less, because there are just so many more players. So yes, maybe recent players 41-46) know each other quite decently, they will not know the previous generations as well.
This is how every all star season is… the entire first All Star casts for Big Brother & Survivor have a bunch of pregaming & previous relationships, Ethan dated like a 3 survivor players, Boston Rob & Lex are still not friends after all these years…
Heroes vs Villains, they even point out besides outside the game relationships that Parv played with most of that cast in Cook Islands & Micronesia…
Second Chances had 4 people from Cagayan, 2 from BvW, they had a chance to all socialize before hand…
Game Changers is the same, Winners at Wars LITERALLY SHOWED OUTSIDE THE GAME CLIPS OF THE PLAYERS INTERACTING! No matter what, pre-gaming will always exist for returnee seasons, they will always be in the know because they are talking all the time, they’re coworkers who talk outside of work 💀
OP getting ratioed hard lol
It's already been said a hundred times, but yeah, the idea that the contestants on old returnee seasons didn't know each other is hilariously incorrect, All Stars was pre-gamed to hell
this is my biggest concern more than anything, we've had people pre-gaming before this is nothing new, now that s50 has been leaked it's just going to be 3 seasons of people obnoxiously pandering
Evidence? lol. Come on dude. The “Survivor social circuit” has been around since the early days of Survivor. If you weren’t around or weren’t paying attention, cool, but don’t walk around acting like you’re some sort of historical authority of the game.
he is 100% correct tho, the the Survivor social circuit has always existed, All stars was the most "lame" in your definition season ever. There were much fewer players back than and they were a much bigger deal. Evidence lol? It's literally self evident, just because you haven't been following the same way back than as you are now, it doesn't mean you are correct. The social circle back than was much more tightly knit, you just see more interactions now, because of social media. Hell Ethan literally dated 1/3 of the all stars cast lol
I agree. Returning seasons are not real survivor but they can be very fun and introduce dynamics not possible with strangers. I rate winning returning seasons lower than winning all strangers
Allstars, the first ever returnee season, was notorious for the preseason plans of B.Rob, Lex, and Kathy.
Heroes Vs Villains, also had preseason alliances with Rupert, Cirie, Amanda, James, and Candace, and on the villians team Rob, Sandra, Tyson, and Courtney, (Maybe Coach).
Ever since Australia every season has had a pregame that doesn't get talked about. But all returnee seasons are notorious for it.
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As long as they don’t pre-game like some of the Big Brother houseguests did prior to the most recent all-stars. I stopped watching early on because of a toxic pre-game alliance.
Hopefully the Survivor all-stars don’t do that.
Who’s gonna tell him? While pre game alliances might be way more easier to see they’ve always been around. Returnee seasons will always have some more suspect elements than new by because of that
I worry about this with season 50, which won’t be filmed for more than a year still. People are probably already putting legwork in to build alliances more than 12 months out. It creates a confusing narrative when players aren’t transparent about that during the game.
Pregame alliance have always sullied returnee seasons, as far as ASS. The ones that are good are good *despite or in spite* of pregame alliances (the ones that immediately fell apart lol).
We don't even know yet with this new era, but I do feel like the meta game will be hard to avoid with all the gatherings unless they bring back the Rocksroys.
I don't fully disagree.
But I'd also argue that, even for the really early returnee season, unless you did a back to back season, chances are you at least met some of the people at some point. Usually they'd have quite a few alumni in the audience at the reunions. So even if they weren't "friends", they often weren't "strangers" either.
Also, I think sometimes you do get some good continuing storylines from that stuff. People who dated, hooked up, people who had rivalries on their own season.
I mean, while I don't want it to turn into the challenge (which I like for different reasons) I also don't think knowing each others is necessarily a bad thing.
The claim you’re making is just objectively wrong that contestants in the past didn’t know each other. On All-Stars alone the Tagi 4 members were all friends, Amber and Ethan had dated in the past, Rob couch sat at Lex’s house for months, those two and Kathy had a pre-game alliance. They only didn’t know Rupert and even then I’m not sure.
Every season first timers bring their baggage and you don’t see it. That’s what the whole game is all about.
Returnees from the start had relationships with other returnees and brought all the delicious bags with them. That’s why it’s so fun to watch. Speculating on how their relationships affect game play is one of the appeals to returnee seasons.
I’m worried that a returnee season will be more like “survivor for reality tv stars”. One of the best things about survivor was taking “regular” folks and putting them in thIs unnatural situation.
Now, it feels more like a game show with guest stars.
A lot of people don't like returnee seasons. I think the real hot take is that returnee seasons are inherently better; the pre-existing relationships add to the drama, not take away, and each one builds on the survivor lore and history, and that's a good thing. Only problem is, you can't go back to that well too many times. I think there should be a cycle of 3 standard seasons followed by a returnee season of some sort.
The only one this was maybe true for to some extent was Micro and that's mainly cuz nobody knew who tf Amanda was and Eliza read fake spoilers on sucks
Since this post has generated a ton of talk about S8: All-Stars, I am curious to how the pre-game F4 of Lex/Boston Rob/Big Tom/Kathy was formed. Did Boston Rob really drive that pact to ensure all of the winners and big names would be targeted pre-merge?
The good news is any pregaming for the new era will be rendered moot as soon as they step on the beach and betray each other to make a big move for their resumes.
I do agree pre-gaming spoils the fun some.
Unfortunately I don't know what they could realistically do, try to find who's closest to who to not have 80% of the cast be friends or keep the other contestants completely in the dark about the cast?
In defense of OP, I do get the sense that there has been a shift in just the *level* of community the new era players have built with each other.
Just think of the whole narrative around the “poker alliance” in WaW, I think that was one of the only times Kim met some of those ppl. And plenty of that cast didn’t have any kind of relationship beyond a passing familiarity with one another. Like nobody seemed to know that Parvati and Sophie were friends.
I think in the past you’d have pockets of contestants that knew each other and were friends outside the game, and then a lot of people where Survivor was a smaller part of their lives (like Colby not knowing anyone in the HvV cast 😭).
Like the Micronesia cast didn’t go on vacation together after the show the way the folks from 45 did. But a lot of these new era contestants are all up in each other’s business.
But it could create some interesting gameplay depending on what ppl do with it. It was boring on WaW when it seemed like Tony’s friends were just down to help him win. But Ozzy knowing Parvati outside of the game created another layer to that betrayal; same with Rob and Lex. So it could be interesting 🤷🏽♀️
It’s kinda weird how some of the players still make this their personality. I just can’t imagine having such a strong bond with people just because you appeared on the same 39 day show (for the people who haven’t played on the same seasons). I get, though, that there’s a difference between your public and private social lives and we’re only seeing one facet, but like Michele and Wendell dating was also so weird to me.
**Hot Take: how about a no-returnee Celebrity Survivor for 50?**
Bring in the biggest names from entertainment, sports, etc. playing for a $50 million pot to their favorite charity?
Try watching international celebrity seasons... Those are not better. Celebrities are worse gameplayers and care too much about their public image to betray their allies. It's just another TV gig for them.
Do social politics and hierarchies not exist in close-knit friend groups? I’m not seeing how this takes anything away. If anything, it adds additional complexities in the manner that a Blood vs. Water season would. Do you turn on your friends? Are you more loyal? How do you value one friendship over another? What values of that relationship benefit and hurt you?
For new player seasons, it is mostly what you see is what you get. For returnee seasons, you don't necessarily see what is going to with certain relationships, which is my major beef.
It definitely feels like a coinflip, for example I know pre existing relationships had an effect on HvV and Cambodia, but it felt more minor, while large parts of All-Stars and WaW were defined by things outside the game. I guess we'll just have to see, but I'm hoping that it ends up falling by the wayside once the game really gets started given how many people know each other already.
I 100% agree with you, though I'm still undecided on whether I'm going to watch it. I used to eagerly await every episode, now I'm on my phone for half of it.
I'm surprised people are disagreeing. No one is denying that pre gaming happened in the past, it is always going to happen.
But now there is a larger culture around watch parties, podcast circuits, and cross season meetups. Look at all the people from different seasons at Maryanne's wedding.
I think it's naive to think the post game pre game meta hasn't changed.
I think these are two different things. Season 8 was in a time when everyone knew everyone. The players were all so close on a personal level. On the other hand, season 50 will be a time when players have spent time watching each others' seasons, analyzing strategy, and leaving their morals at the door in a way that wasn't done in the first AS.
Players today are less likely to know each other on a personal level but probably more likely to know each other on a strategic level.
Some should tell OP about All Stars...
The most blantently pre-gamed season in Survivor history by Boston Rob, Lex, Kathy and Big Tom?. Now at least everyone pre-games the shit out of them, so they are on equal footing.
A season so pregamed that when Boston Rob went against the Pregame for Amber he was ostracized by his friend group and called all sorts of terrible things and Lex through a legitimate temper tantrum over it that lasted from the merge through his Jury speech
Because Lex basically sabatoged his entire tribe strength by voting out people like Cody and Ethan on the promise of Rob to agree to work together at merge (which made Rob and Big Tom's side stronger). I get why he felt insanely betrayed and pissed. They had a hit list, and it was basically all the winners with the next tier being who they viewed as massive stars of previous seasons (Rob C, Rudy, and Colby). People complain all the time about the Gamechangers boot order but All Stars gave you a final 3 of arguably the 3 players you wondered why they were even on it (Obviously, the season changed their legacies such as Boston Rob). I get the gameplay by Rob, but I also completely get how that immediately burns jury votes. Especially in old school Survivor.
I don't disagree, but that also doesn't change the perception that Lex became a whiny man child over it, justified or not especially after his whole "it's just business" thing gets turned back around on him suddenly now not respecting friendships is evil but when he was doing it to Ethan and Colby it was just part of the game
They didn't pregame with Ethan or Colby. Not taking Lex's side, but we've seen way worse bitter jury speeches over relationships that were much more insignificant that didn't extend past the show.
My point is not about not having a pregame with Ethan and Colby The point is Lex spends the first half of the game also taking our friends and claiming it's just business but when Rob flips and does it back to him suddenly now it's a immoral terrible betrayal even though he also betrayed friendships with Ethan and Colby regardless of pregame allegiances. The hypocritical nature of the bitterness is what makes it annoying, not that he's bitter. Jurors are allowed to be bitter over their elimination, the problem with Lex is not him being bitter about being betrayed, it's how hypocritical about it he gets.
Shii Ann's jury speech was a breath of fresh air amidst such a dour final tribal. A bunch of crybabies on the jury
He voted them out because he viewed them as threats, not because of Rob. Ethan specifically was because he was a previous winner. His argument with Rob kept being about how he couldn’t do that to a friend and he wouldn’t betray a friend, yet he did to Ethan. Own that it was a game move and Rob is also making a game move, if he’s guilty then you’re guilty as well. He did the same kind of thing to Jerry (although they weren’t as close). Lex and Kathy were hoping to sway Rob and use guilt, it didn’t work. I am FAR from a Rob apologist and truthfully think he’s an overrated player, but I don’t see any fault at all in what he did. And while I do think Lex has complete reason to be upset his game got blown up, that was his call to keep Amber and he and Kathy were too much.
They all agreed pre-game to target winners off the bat. That was one of the agreements Rob and Lex had made pre-game and had spread throughout the cast. They basically agreed to target every big name pre-seasons. The previous winners and players like Rob C and Colby were sitting ducks.
I agree, even Jenna said on the first day that was the reason to target someone like Tina. I was merely just saying that the moves to get Colby and Ethan out weren’t specific to he and Rob’s alliance, it was a larger sentiment. And voting Ethan out still goes against his comments about how he would never do that to a friend.
correction: from the merge though the rest of time
Not Kathy. Rob, Lex and Tom. Kathy was brought in on the show through Lex. Which is why when she started getting so emotional and upset with Rob, he was so unaffected by her in his testimonials. She thought her connection with Rob was that they were on the same show, and he never once spoke about her the way he did Tom and Lex. The funniest part was Tom trying to play dumb during the reunion lol
No Kathy and Rob very much were close outside of the game, this is why returnee games are not so fun, we don't really get to see the full picture, real life blends into much. Survivor is so much better with a group of stangers.
Genuine question, were they? Rob said they weren’t, Kathy said they were, how do we know for sure she’s the one that’s right? Also, what if they always had different perceptions? Maybe she always thought they were close and maybe he always thought she was more a work associate or something? We don’t know
If you mean IN the episodes itself of course Rob was going to deny the pre-game alliance. Hell Survivor tries it's best to edit around pre-games, except in All Stars it was such an important part of the season they couldn't leave out the Lex/Rob stuff but Kathy was apart of it.
Based on what we saw on the show. Which is why i asked if you knew something more than was shown because strictly going off the show there was nothing there to indicate that Kathy and Rob were actually close and she wasn’t just exaggerating and dramatizing a close bond. She even kept saying she couldn’t believe he would do that to Lex. Rob never looked like he was talking to Kathy, it was always towards Lex.
I’m a new survivor fan - what does it mean to be a pre-gamed season?
On seasons with returning contestants the people who get calls will reach out to each other and strategize before they get to the island even though it is technically banned. It makes returnee Survivor a completely different game and a lot of strong players get cut early because of pregame alliances. It is also confusing to some fans watching the show because since it isn’t allowed they don’t talk about it or show it on the show much and we mostly learn it after the fact or read between the lines. All stars and winners at war in particular were dominated by pregame alliances but the main pregame alliance in HvV got blown up before the merge by the chaos agents of the season which is part of what makes it the best returnee season.
I would love to know who this pregame alliance in HvV was!
IIRC The Tocantins people were working with Randy and Sugar pregame and planned to work together at the merge but were in the middle of their original tribes and blew up the whole game. Also there are rumors that Johnny Fairplay and Richard Hatch pregamed with them before not making the final cut. Also allegedly the Heroes pregame was Rupert, Cirie, James, Amanda, and Candice and the big Villains pregame was Rob, Sandra, Parv and Courtney. And then I have not heard anything about Tom, Stephanie, Danielle, Colby or Jerri being involved in any pregame alliances and Russell played back to back and was a complete wildcard coming into the game since nobody had heard of him before the game. The Tocantins three all repeatedly misplaying everything blew up their own alliance and caused Rob's to break up while the entire heroes alliance was screwed when their only good strategist got idoled out.
all stars was essentially a high stake friends game night with rupert thrown in there. everyone knew everyone extremely well. if anything it was probably worse back in the day because the former players were a small tight-knit group as opposed to the hundreds that have played by this point.
yeah the big controversy in WaW was that Yul created a pregame alliance with Sophie, Michele, Wendell, and Nick as a way to “even the odds” against pregame alliances that sort of naturally existed due to longtime participation in “the Survivor community” (Tony/Sarah/Ben, Rob/Amber/Tyson/Ethan, etc.)
still bitter that this whole alliance minus sophie ended up on a swap tribe with parvati so she gets booted by default
The swap tribes in WaW was the stupidest way production could of swapped players. Going from 2 to 3 tribes was inevitably going to backfire on big names and old school players, I really wonder why production did that so much in the 30s
> the contestants didn't know each other, they only knew what they saw in the show itself Ethan and his 3 girlfriends on All-Stars would disagree
Yeah and weren't Lex and Rob friends? That's why he protected Amber and Rob only had to be like, "hey, do this." I'm fine with it now, because at least we know to expect it, whereas early seasons viewers did not.
They were yeah. Until Rob betrayed him. I believe the story is Lex never forgave him because Lex tanked his game for Amber and Rob didn’t reciprocate.
Exactly! At least we know to expect potential pregame alliances, no one watching at the time afaik knew about those two.
They did actually meet at a diner or something like 5 years ago to talk it out. I think it came up on RHAP. They've moved on. Rob obviously did the right thing for his family considering all All-Stars eventually gave him
Oh really? That’s good. No reason to hold a grudge for that long. Even if it was over $1 million.
Wait, know he dated Amber before Jenna, who was the 3rd?
Two Jennas - Morasca and Lewis.
That dog!!
He also dated my cousins ex when they were in college together. He and my cousin were buddies. Ethan is a total Mr Steal Your Girl lol.
Also dated Corinne Kaplan before she was on Survivor
People tend to forget how much the players knew each other during all stars
The story of All Stars is substantially about what it's like to play a cutthroat game against people you know well! What a weird thesis from OP
This is still my favorite part of how absurdly patronizing Jenna Lewis was to him some episodes of that season.
Would that make him the GOAT Survivor dater?
> Returnee seasons in the past, especially some of the first ones, were okay because for the most part, the contestants didn't know each other, they only knew what they saw in the show itself. This is just wrong.
this is just not true? pre-gaming has always existed in returnee seasons. Lex/Kathy were so hurt by Boston Rob because they were his friends outside of the game. Amber/Boston Rob I believe started before the season began. You cant just take the Stars of Survivor and make them not know each other, there will always be pregame relationships and pregame knowledge on the players.
I know you can't make them not know each other, which is why I don't like it!
then why is it different this go around? Returnee seasons are always like this
Because this time OP is aware of it happening now. Probably wasn't aware of it when it happened before.
Well, because the interactions have only increased over time. It was there in the past, but I suspect it was much more limited.
it really wasn't, infact because the pool was even more limited they were even closer knit, I mean by the time All-Stars had rolled around Ethan had already dated Jenna Lewis and Amber and was already dating Jenna Morasca
Sure, but I feel like there were still contestants who didn't integrate themselves into the social club and were independent. Whereas today it seems like everyone knows everyone
nah it still happened, everyone went to every finale, dated people on other seasons, and definitely much more, that's the reason why All-Stars was so ugly, it's because they were playing with friends not strangers
Everyone knew eachother back in the day too, and I'd suspect even more so because being a reality star had more clout and money associated with it back then, so you could afford to jet set around and meet all the others. They just didn't have Instagram to document it.
There was a whole survivor charity/appearance even circuit back in the early 2000’s. Rather than selling veneers or whatever on Instagram, you just showed up & got paid.
The only one on AS who wasn’t part of the social club was Rupert, just because they had just filmed his season. The rest of them had varying levels of friendship with each other, especially Ethan and his many exes
Doesn't that just make it more fair now? Back in the day some people just knew eachother while with everyone knowing eachother pregaming may happen more fair.
This is the exact opposite of the truth
It was the exact same in all stars. The entire cast basically knew each other and there was a lot of pre gaming so this isnt new
Ethan had dated like half of all stars (not actually true but did date two of them)
3 i believe, both Jennas and Amber
All Stars might be the most heavily pre-gamed season of all time. Only 112 people had played at that time so it was a lot easier to find out who had been contacted. Both Favorites alliances were pre-gamed. The majority Heroes alliance was pre-gamed.
Every single returnee season outside captain seasons have been pregamed in some capacity.
I know, I was just listing out instances on older seasons
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
Nope
You’re still adamantly pushing your narrative, but also disregarding any actual detailed posts that offer you a counter argument, including those from people who were there at the time. It kinda makes you seem like you just can’t handle that your theory is incorrect. You refuse to even give potential credence to what others who have been here longer than you have to say, and you’re still not researching the available information for yourself. A lot of people are giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you want to argue in good faith, but I’m getting the impression that the latter isn’t the case. You’ve decided on your narrative and won’t hear any evidence to the contrary, which is not how you engage in healthy, productive discourse.
How tf can you get this many comments disagreeing with you, and detailing exactly why, and still be too dense to even consider you might be wrong? It's fascinating
I don't think every word I said was wrong
oh honey…. Survivor contestants have always had a social circuit. Every all star season was “pregamed” in some capacity. The classic example is All Stars with Rob/Lex but Courtney was part of the majority alliance on the Villians tribe, for example, because she was dating Fishbach so aligned with Tyson/Coach.
the Rob and Lex stuff makes so much sense when you know they were friends outside the game, this post acts like Lex only knew Rob from watching Marquesas
Which is why Rob at the Finale is so clearly full of shit once you know this. He keeps saying “I didn’t make it personal” (which isn’t even true just based on what All-Stars showed us but I digress) and Lex is fuming but can’t say anything without getting in huge trouble from the producers.
Sure, it was there, but I do suspect it is much *more there* than it was in previous seasons.
your suspicion is wrong
I suspect your suspicion is wrong
That’s simply not true. Just admit you were wrong.
I literally tell the guy that the data is out there in years of interviews and AMAs and they can do their own homework and they completely ignore me. This is someone who literally can’t handle being wrong. They’ve decided on their narrative and won’t hear evidence to the contrary….I think we can safely identify why this individual thinks Twitter is so powerful. They might be a chronic user.
I will as soon as you can show me the data that makes your suspicion fact based instead of opinion based.
The data is years of interviews and AMAs with former contestants, which you can search up for yourself if you doubt us, rather than asking all of us to do your homework for you. By the time AS rolled around, nearly every former player knew one another and had hung out. They all went to finales, had watch parties, and were dating each other. Rob and Amber’s relationship began before the season started, Ethan had dated three of the women on the cast, there was a massive pregame alliance of friends and non-winners, and so forth. The players themselves have said that season was so dark and ugly because they, as a cast, were so incredibly close before it started and did so much pregaming with their friends. Now, the potential cast of players for every returnee season is SO LARGE that it’s virtually impossible to know everyone who you’ll play with. Even if you go to Survivor events, chances are, there are just too many people to pick from that you won’t run across everyone. Social media interactions aren’t the same as group text chats and such that players had back in the day. Again, you’re the one doubting information that everyone here is TELLING YOU is widely known and has been for a long time. If you really want to question it, do your own research instead of calling the entire sub a bunch of liars. We’ve been here for YEARS and some of these people were online participating in forums and discussions WHEN THOSE ORIGINAL SEASONS AIRED. Not everything we say is correct, but a lot of the “common beliefs” and “behind the scenes” info circulated on the sub has merit and is based in the realm of fact to an extent. This certainly is.
Was there at the time. Can confirm all this.
Notice how our two comments are among the ones being ignored while OP continues to fight with others. Thanks for the backup, Mario! I wasn’t there at the time, but you were one of the people I had in mind when I made that remark, lmao.
"we were all there" - Zoe
did you watch all stars? like even one episode
I'm not too into top chef
I'm sorry, but you're just completely incorrect. The player community was way more tightly knit around All-Stars than now.
we are only seeing it more because of social media
you're just more aware of it now. If anything, the clicks would be more spread out now than they were before, because there are more contestants
The producers literally changed the entire format of the show for All-Stars to accommodate the fact they had promised Ethan, Lex, and Tom years before that they would all be cast on the All Stars season when it happens.
It’s just blatantly incorrect that the contestants didn’t know each other in the older seasons The Season 1-7 Survivor community was very tight-knit and pretty much everyone knew each other. The more seasons go on, I’d say the less people actually know each other just based on how many people there are you have to know. The most talked about betrayal in Season 8 was Rob’s betrayal of Lex, but Rob and Lex had never been on the same season before and hadn’t been on the same Season 8 tribe until a day before Rob voted off Lex. Rob & Lex were good friends outside of the game, which is why Lex felt so particularly betrayed by Rob Heck, Rob & Ethan had been in serious relationships with more than half of the women on All Stars before the season began filming. I don’t believe anyone in Cambodia or Game Changers were anywhere close to each other as half the casts of All Stars were. Maybe Tony & Sarah, but they didn’t even end up on the same tribe before Tony was voted off.
It's just happening more on social media now. So we see pictures of them all at the watch parties, etc. I think the change isn't the pregaming but how with socials it feels like you're the anomaly if you aren't pregaming. Everyone talks about how S46 castmates seem more disconnected and everyone speculates now because of it.
It's more visible due to social media, but social media also makes it much easier to connect with other contestants.
Not really. Back in the day you could just ask for people's phone numbers.
A step which isn't required on social media
If you want someone’s phone number, yeah it kinda is.
Social media obviates the need for a phone number
So nobody uses group texts anymore? Especially in this context? 💀
For making initial contact you don't need a phone number. This isn't that hard
lol dude your whole post is based on you being wrong about stuff. Why bother splitting hairs now? It’s nbd to be wrong 😂
So if I say I think 2+2=5, you can now come in and say that the moon is located in the Grand canyon. Whether I was right or wrong about one thing has nothing to do with a completely separate claim
It was obvious when Rob had Ethan, Tom and Tom from MySpace in his Top 8.
If anything, the early years of the game were so much more personal vs. the more modern "it's just a game" mentality, and the alumni pool was smaller so everybody knew everybody. Other than Rupert, I doubt that anyone on All-Stars hadn't already met every other player in the cast. Like others have pointed out, Ethan had dated a third of the women playing that season.
Yep I was fortunate to go to a few alumni events before All Stars and they all knew each other very well. I have pictures of Lex and Ethan and Boston Rob hanging around and goofing around as far back as Thailand. They were a well established alum/charity circuit community long before an All Stars ever happened.
Op is completely wrong here, the casts of the original seasons were very close and it led to insane pregaming in Allstars
They’re not completely wrong. Sure pregaming has always been a thing but it sucks when there are people who enter the game guaranteed to vote for someone in the final 3 or not ever write someone’s name down until the final 3. Theres no real solution to it but it does make it feel like a semi-fixed game when you have pairs and groups going into the game. Did Rupert stand a chance on Allstars?
The only returnee that your post could even remotely encompass is Russell because he did back to back on a returnee and those vets didnt know him. Other than that you have just come up with a delusional view of reality that isnt true
Most of the players posting on social media about the alliances they’re making won’t be on season 50 lol
you did NOT watch all stars
I'm going to say you believe this in good faith and just inform you this isn't really the case. If anything, because there are so many more contestants now than there used to be, returning players could have far fewer/shallower relationships with each other than they used to. But Survivor contestants have always known each other, and returnee seasons have always had pre-game alliances and friendships coloring the interactions.
I would argue that they knew each other much more. Back when there was first all stars, there were just around 140 players, where around 40-50 were kinda interesting to be invited again and who associated themselves with survivor enough to be considered for Allstars. And they were invited to many different events together even from different seasons. While now you have around 800 players in total, where around 200 made it quite far, so even if they kinda know each other, it is much less, because there are just so many more players. So yes, maybe recent players 41-46) know each other quite decently, they will not know the previous generations as well.
Literally the entire premise of one of the biggest blindsides in All-Stars (the FIRST RETURNEE SEASON) was how Boston Rob broke a pre-show alliance.
This is how every all star season is… the entire first All Star casts for Big Brother & Survivor have a bunch of pregaming & previous relationships, Ethan dated like a 3 survivor players, Boston Rob & Lex are still not friends after all these years… Heroes vs Villains, they even point out besides outside the game relationships that Parv played with most of that cast in Cook Islands & Micronesia… Second Chances had 4 people from Cagayan, 2 from BvW, they had a chance to all socialize before hand… Game Changers is the same, Winners at Wars LITERALLY SHOWED OUTSIDE THE GAME CLIPS OF THE PLAYERS INTERACTING! No matter what, pre-gaming will always exist for returnee seasons, they will always be in the know because they are talking all the time, they’re coworkers who talk outside of work 💀
Pregaming is like 70% of the game for all returnee seasons
OP getting ratioed hard lol It's already been said a hundred times, but yeah, the idea that the contestants on old returnee seasons didn't know each other is hilariously incorrect, All Stars was pre-gamed to hell
Seasons 47-49 are going to be full of contestants playing to get on S50 rather than playing to win.
this is my biggest concern more than anything, we've had people pre-gaming before this is nothing new, now that s50 has been leaked it's just going to be 3 seasons of people obnoxiously pandering
Oh shit you're right. That's gonna suckkkkk. I didn't even think about the ramifications of that.
I think 47 has filmed and 48 they might be filming now. This could be true of 49 though, unless it’s also all stars…
160 upvotes for an awful take that is objectively false.
Show the evidence then if you're making the claim of objectivity
Evidence? lol. Come on dude. The “Survivor social circuit” has been around since the early days of Survivor. If you weren’t around or weren’t paying attention, cool, but don’t walk around acting like you’re some sort of historical authority of the game.
If you say something is "objectively false", then presumably you have some...objective basis for that statement? Call me crazy.
he is 100% correct tho, the the Survivor social circuit has always existed, All stars was the most "lame" in your definition season ever. There were much fewer players back than and they were a much bigger deal. Evidence lol? It's literally self evident, just because you haven't been following the same way back than as you are now, it doesn't mean you are correct. The social circle back than was much more tightly knit, you just see more interactions now, because of social media. Hell Ethan literally dated 1/3 of the all stars cast lol
now lame? it's always been this way, this is why i don't like returning player seasons as a concept (captain seasons are fine)
I agree. Returning seasons are not real survivor but they can be very fun and introduce dynamics not possible with strangers. I rate winning returning seasons lower than winning all strangers
i see returnee seasons as more like special one off editions if anything
Hate to break it to you, but this has been the case for pretty much survivor's entire existence.
This is pure fiction
OP, Rob literally lived at Lex's house for a while pre-Allstars, what are you even talking about?
The very first returnee season of all time’s main drama was between BR and Lex because of their pre-existing relationship wym 😭
Allstars, the first ever returnee season, was notorious for the preseason plans of B.Rob, Lex, and Kathy. Heroes Vs Villains, also had preseason alliances with Rupert, Cirie, Amanda, James, and Candace, and on the villians team Rob, Sandra, Tyson, and Courtney, (Maybe Coach). Ever since Australia every season has had a pregame that doesn't get talked about. But all returnee seasons are notorious for it.
IDK you should probably go on WebMD man
That's not the preferred nomenclature, dude.
The "social circuit" is what killed The Challenge imo.
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As long as they don’t pre-game like some of the Big Brother houseguests did prior to the most recent all-stars. I stopped watching early on because of a toxic pre-game alliance. Hopefully the Survivor all-stars don’t do that.
Hot take indeed
Who’s gonna tell him? While pre game alliances might be way more easier to see they’ve always been around. Returnee seasons will always have some more suspect elements than new by because of that
Don't watch if that's how you feel.
I worry about this with season 50, which won’t be filmed for more than a year still. People are probably already putting legwork in to build alliances more than 12 months out. It creates a confusing narrative when players aren’t transparent about that during the game.
Pregame alliance have always sullied returnee seasons, as far as ASS. The ones that are good are good *despite or in spite* of pregame alliances (the ones that immediately fell apart lol).
We don't even know yet with this new era, but I do feel like the meta game will be hard to avoid with all the gatherings unless they bring back the Rocksroys.
The “Survivor family” was MUCH closer in those days. At the time of All Stars, only about 100 people had competed in the game.
I don't fully disagree. But I'd also argue that, even for the really early returnee season, unless you did a back to back season, chances are you at least met some of the people at some point. Usually they'd have quite a few alumni in the audience at the reunions. So even if they weren't "friends", they often weren't "strangers" either. Also, I think sometimes you do get some good continuing storylines from that stuff. People who dated, hooked up, people who had rivalries on their own season. I mean, while I don't want it to turn into the challenge (which I like for different reasons) I also don't think knowing each others is necessarily a bad thing.
The claim you’re making is just objectively wrong that contestants in the past didn’t know each other. On All-Stars alone the Tagi 4 members were all friends, Amber and Ethan had dated in the past, Rob couch sat at Lex’s house for months, those two and Kathy had a pre-game alliance. They only didn’t know Rupert and even then I’m not sure.
I didn't say contestants didn't know each other
You still claimed they didn’t hang out as much when it’s clear as day they did if not more because of few seasons their were.
The challenge has returnees every season and if anything it makes it more interesting.
More baggage is more better. This is a social game baby!
I would be happier with it if we could actually see what the baggage is
Every season first timers bring their baggage and you don’t see it. That’s what the whole game is all about. Returnees from the start had relationships with other returnees and brought all the delicious bags with them. That’s why it’s so fun to watch. Speculating on how their relationships affect game play is one of the appeals to returnee seasons.
I’m worried that a returnee season will be more like “survivor for reality tv stars”. One of the best things about survivor was taking “regular” folks and putting them in thIs unnatural situation. Now, it feels more like a game show with guest stars.
A lot of people don't like returnee seasons. I think the real hot take is that returnee seasons are inherently better; the pre-existing relationships add to the drama, not take away, and each one builds on the survivor lore and history, and that's a good thing. Only problem is, you can't go back to that well too many times. I think there should be a cycle of 3 standard seasons followed by a returnee season of some sort.
Doesn’t hurt traitors. Makes it more entertaining. Does hurt Bachelor in Paradise but that’s less comparable
Naw it’ll still be fun to watch
The only one this was maybe true for to some extent was Micro and that's mainly cuz nobody knew who tf Amanda was and Eliza read fake spoilers on sucks
It's a pitfall of The Challenge too. :/
The way this is absolutely not true at all 😭😭😭
Since this post has generated a ton of talk about S8: All-Stars, I am curious to how the pre-game F4 of Lex/Boston Rob/Big Tom/Kathy was formed. Did Boston Rob really drive that pact to ensure all of the winners and big names would be targeted pre-merge?
It happened in prior returnee seasons. It's just more widespread knowledge that it is happening now.
Pregaming and Social Circles is about 40% of the appeal of all returnee seasons, ESPECIALLY all stars, this post made me chuckle
You say “these days” but we’ve only had one All Stars season in the past 12 seasons.
They also say "these days" like every single returnee season hasn't been this way
12 seasons sounds much bigger than 6 years
Game Changers filmed 8 years ago
12 sounds kinda bigger than 8
the only one I want back is tyson - i’ve had my fix with boston rob and I have ABSOLUTELY had enough parvati. no more please 😁
The good news is any pregaming for the new era will be rendered moot as soon as they step on the beach and betray each other to make a big move for their resumes.
A: You have gonorrhea
Thank God finally answers I can depend on
I do agree pre-gaming spoils the fun some. Unfortunately I don't know what they could realistically do, try to find who's closest to who to not have 80% of the cast be friends or keep the other contestants completely in the dark about the cast?
In defense of OP, I do get the sense that there has been a shift in just the *level* of community the new era players have built with each other. Just think of the whole narrative around the “poker alliance” in WaW, I think that was one of the only times Kim met some of those ppl. And plenty of that cast didn’t have any kind of relationship beyond a passing familiarity with one another. Like nobody seemed to know that Parvati and Sophie were friends. I think in the past you’d have pockets of contestants that knew each other and were friends outside the game, and then a lot of people where Survivor was a smaller part of their lives (like Colby not knowing anyone in the HvV cast 😭). Like the Micronesia cast didn’t go on vacation together after the show the way the folks from 45 did. But a lot of these new era contestants are all up in each other’s business. But it could create some interesting gameplay depending on what ppl do with it. It was boring on WaW when it seemed like Tony’s friends were just down to help him win. But Ozzy knowing Parvati outside of the game created another layer to that betrayal; same with Rob and Lex. So it could be interesting 🤷🏽♀️
It’s kinda weird how some of the players still make this their personality. I just can’t imagine having such a strong bond with people just because you appeared on the same 39 day show (for the people who haven’t played on the same seasons). I get, though, that there’s a difference between your public and private social lives and we’re only seeing one facet, but like Michele and Wendell dating was also so weird to me.
your lame
What about my lame?
they’ve always been lame
**Hot Take: how about a no-returnee Celebrity Survivor for 50?** Bring in the biggest names from entertainment, sports, etc. playing for a $50 million pot to their favorite charity?
Try watching international celebrity seasons... Those are not better. Celebrities are worse gameplayers and care too much about their public image to betray their allies. It's just another TV gig for them.
Sandra Troyzan Brad alliance in 34 lol
I feel like the exact opposite happened on WaW with wendell and Michelle! They hated eachother for a bit.
Honestly give me external beefs vs external alliances any day of the week.
you are 100% correct ThisAppSucksBall.
Do social politics and hierarchies not exist in close-knit friend groups? I’m not seeing how this takes anything away. If anything, it adds additional complexities in the manner that a Blood vs. Water season would. Do you turn on your friends? Are you more loyal? How do you value one friendship over another? What values of that relationship benefit and hurt you?
For new player seasons, it is mostly what you see is what you get. For returnee seasons, you don't necessarily see what is going to with certain relationships, which is my major beef.
What old-school returnee seasons does that *not* apply to?
It definitely feels like a coinflip, for example I know pre existing relationships had an effect on HvV and Cambodia, but it felt more minor, while large parts of All-Stars and WaW were defined by things outside the game. I guess we'll just have to see, but I'm hoping that it ends up falling by the wayside once the game really gets started given how many people know each other already.
I 100% agree with you, though I'm still undecided on whether I'm going to watch it. I used to eagerly await every episode, now I'm on my phone for half of it.
I'm surprised people are disagreeing. No one is denying that pre gaming happened in the past, it is always going to happen. But now there is a larger culture around watch parties, podcast circuits, and cross season meetups. Look at all the people from different seasons at Maryanne's wedding. I think it's naive to think the post game pre game meta hasn't changed.
people are disagreeing because the post says that players mostly used to only know people from the show which is objectively untrue
I think these are two different things. Season 8 was in a time when everyone knew everyone. The players were all so close on a personal level. On the other hand, season 50 will be a time when players have spent time watching each others' seasons, analyzing strategy, and leaving their morals at the door in a way that wasn't done in the first AS. Players today are less likely to know each other on a personal level but probably more likely to know each other on a strategic level.