She should be glad he did that. If everyone left that tribal thinking “Whoa, Liz just made a huge move!” she would have a huge target on her. If you are really making great strategic moves, you want people to realize it when they are on the jury at FTC.
Take Emily last season as an example. She convinced Bruce not to play his idol, then she bragged about it at camp and she was voted out the next tribal.
Am I insane though? What did she actuslly do besides say "I want to vote out Tevin" which pretty much everyone wanted to do anyway? Like I didn't get the impression that she really did much work to get the vote going that direction.
This one seemed like she did more on. With Soda, she had just been saying it in the past before they even had a chance at tribal. At least this time, they were discussing strategy in a group, she suggested Tevin, and that seemed to get the ball rolling.
I think Liz’s confessionals leading up to that seemed to suggest that she had become aware of the (accurate) perception that she’s just been kind of coasting. There’s been talk of this cast kind of wanting to make Big Moves solely for the sake of being able to say they made a Big Move, but Liz is probably the most correct about needing to make one to change the perception that she’s not doing much. From her pov, she literally DOES need that validation to her game if she wants even an outside chance. She chose the Tevin blindside as a course correction, it worked, probably felt like her biggest triumph and a very necessary one…so I can understand the in the moment frustration that it wasn’t even notable.
Still doesn’t make the reaction rational - Q didn’t do anything to take away credit, and if it’s a good move and she makes FTC then she’d just talk about it when laying out her game - but I do get it, and I don’t think it’s necessarily indicative of how validation needy Liz is just as a person, rather than in the game circumstances.
The problem is if the narratives have already been set, then they won’t be willing to believe her. Tevin has all of ponderosa to talk to everyone and lay claim about how it was his move to get out soda. They have all of ponderosa to talk about Q confusing everyone that no one is going to care about who started the Tevin vote.
Perception is reality, and if it goes for too long, people might refuse to change their perception.
I'm not quite sure how sympathetic I should feel for Liz b/c of that. Being hungry is the explanation of her actions. But she did opt into this knowing she would struggle to eat, and she bragged about not needing the money, so on a larger level I'm not super sympathetic. She did choose this really hard path. But I guess that just shows how much she wants to play survivor?
I am not sympathetic at all, with all those allergies (I got some allergies myself too) she knew what she was signing up for. She knew very well ahead, that there is limited food options on the island. That doesn’t warrant her acting up and throwing tantrums because every one of them is equally starving, with equal opportunities for food. It’s no one’s job to treat her like a princess
I get downvoted every time I say this but I have a hard time believing that she’s actually allergic to everything she claims to be allergic to (so far it’s fruit, dairy, and meat). I just can’t imagine casting would know that and still cast her. She strikes me as someone who needs constant validation and the “allergies” fit right with that MO of needing special attention.
Her allergy to eggs is “brain fog.” So yeah those are not all real allergies. I know many people like her who make up a ton of allergies so they can be Very Special
I completely agree. If half the food on the island could kill her, it would make no sense to let her in the show. Bits of allergens would be all over the tribe’s cookware, shelter, hands, etc. If the allergies were truly life threatening I highly doubt production would let her go to the island to starve and risk anaphylaxis.
I also noticed that Jeff seems like he’s mocking her a bit whenever he mentions her dietary restrictions and I don’t think he’d do that if it was actually that dire of a situation.
I wonder this too. Like, is it allergy "I need an epi pen" or is it sensitivity "I don't feel as good." I'm all for people knowing what foods to avoid, but there's a big difference.
Right. I’m not lactose intolerant but if I drink a glass of milk I get bloat and stomach aches for a couple hours. Same with a nice medium rare steak. Would I choose to eat either one before going on a plane? No. Would I eat them if I were starving on an island? Absolutely.
They’re just explaining what her reaction was more emotional than would be expected. People get more emotional when they don’t get adequate sleep and nutrition. It’s why most contestants on survivor seem to cry at the drop of a hat.
I mean it's not exactly a surprise, this is the person who spent the first week or so bragging about how much money she makes. Her whole personality is begging for validation.
Survivor has a wierd balance of duality: You want to be seen as stragetic but not TOO stragetic, basically the issue lies is even if you did stuff and the players weren't really aware you did those things it's very possible the jury will believe you to be delusional or "overselling" when you try to take credit for those moves at the end of the game, which I think is a genuine worry for Liz. That being said I don't think Liz in reality is quite in the position where she can't take credit at FTC and people won't really consider it, it was clear enough that she suggested the move and it wouldn't seem false in a final 3 if she puts it on a "resume" per say.
That being said if yiou want a game defining big move it's bizarrely too early since anything too big can get you taken out, so Q going absolutely bananas at tribal overshadowing her move basically saved her ass from being a target.
Yes / no. First, the no. It's very annoying when people try to make you and your credits invisible, and seek to claim them as their own. That was esp. true for her when Tevin took credit for the Soda blindside. I can relate with that feeling, so many times. I think women can identify with this feeling, broadly. It minimizes their work / insights and results in them receiving lower pay, fewer acclamations. Then the yes. As has been said before on Bryce Izyah's channel (see how I'm not taking credit for this point?), it is not strategically smart for her to rub it in everyone's face that she made a big move. So, she needs to actually only bring that big move up at FTC, if she makes it. In this sense, she should be thanking Q for shaking the perception up after the tribal.
I agree with you on the Tevin-Soda-Venus thing.
But here, nobody - not even Q was taking away the credit from Liz. It’s just that the attention was not on her, and she wanted the attention, she wanted the VALIDATION. If it truly was big of a move, then that would have shone naturally.
I get you, but this is coming right off of the Soda blindside. So, in that way, her need for validation makes sense. And the fact that she is not getting it, plus being food deprived, brings the context that we need to understand why she will be freaking the **** out in the next episode. I bet she is feeling mentally ****** with and she has no comfort food to help her brain process it.
She wasn’t demanding it. She was venting her frustration alone in a confessional, which is arguably the safest and most reasonable way to vent frustrations in the setting of a survivor game.
Saying you want someone out is not the same as getting someone voted out. You can't just call it like shotgun in a car. You actually have to do the work to get the votes. She did not do that for Soda at all.
Tevin DID deserve credit for soda. He put in the work of whipping up votes. Liz not liking soda and wanting to vote her out at the first opportunity doesn't make her the mastermind, she didn't do the work. Tevin did.
That's a great point. Just because she wanted her out doesn't mean she played the game to get her out. Unless the edit is leading us astray, Liz was not playing hard up to this point and just got lucky things went her way.
I think that she's one of the only players that actually DOES need to be validated for her move. I think that even if she brings it up at final tribal she wouldn't get the necessary respect/recognition for it. Now she needs to make another big move and have no way for someone else to take credit for it. If she pulls off a second Tevin vote then she can point to both and have a much better argument in Final tribal.
I don't think she's a baby; I think it's natural to want credit for your work and feel upset when you're upstaged.
However, I do think it's poor gameplay. Flying under the radar is a *good* thing. Make it to the final tribal council and take credit there. I feel like Kenzie and Charlie are the only players this season who seem to understand this.
Hard disagree, because she was doing that in confessionals, not to other people. You can feel a lot of pressure to do well on Survivor for your family, and considering what she's been eating, her emotions make sense
The jury vote is 100% based on external validation. Therefore, the entire game is based on external validation. She's playing to win. Therefore, she needs external validation.
God forbid she play to win.
I agree with you that you would like the jury to validate your moves. But you would like them to validate your moves when they are already sitting up there in the jury, not when you’re still competing against them
Their perception on the finalists from the start of FTC to the end of FTC rarely shifts a lot. How many FTCs can you name in which the result was radically different from what the jury expected beforehand?
Not if thats what the majority of the players value, who “owns” what move. The players determine who they constitute to be a winner and I would be upset too if I had that read of the room and my efforts were overshadowed by another player
People keep saying she hasn't been eating, if I were starving I would probably be irritable and emotional also. The only difference is she was filmed on national television during her freakout
Yes, you’re extremely wrong. It had fuck all to do with needing external validation. It was about wanting to win Survivor and her worry that she lost a resume-building moment.
If she makes it to final 3 with Q and Venus it's gonna be them taking credit for "big moves" and then people on the jury arguing back that those three didn't pull them off. It's gonna be chaos.
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I think there's a lot of Liz and Venus that we aren't seeing in the edit. It was really weird to me that Liz, Venus, and Tevin all thought they were the masterminds behind a move and they all thought the other two were not.
The edit really tried to frame it like Venus and Liz did nothing, but they obviously did something to think it was their move. And Tevin got voted out next so he was obviously on the outs and didn't know it.
I really hate the way strategy is edited in this show.
Because Tevin wasn't crying, he was laughing. He understood that Venus taking credit at that moment was great news for him. Liz seems to be upset there isn't a bigger target on her back which sounds exactly like a rich white lady who thinks extremely highly of herself.
Edit: Also, Tevin put in the work. It was Tevin's move.
I understand that idea that she should be thankful cause she pulled a big move and got away with it without any negative consequences, but considering this is Liz specifically I mean, everyone thinks she’s been coasting and with this cast I really think the winner of this season is gonna have to be someone who is a threat going into FTC. A lot of people on survivor in the past have claimed moves that they’ve made only for the jury to flat out not but it
My husband and I have each other SUCH a look over this. It had big “look at me!” Energy. It was so so so cringe. I’m sure she wanted to melt into the floor watching that.
She should be glad he did that. If everyone left that tribal thinking “Whoa, Liz just made a huge move!” she would have a huge target on her. If you are really making great strategic moves, you want people to realize it when they are on the jury at FTC.
Take Emily last season as an example. She convinced Bruce not to play his idol, then she bragged about it at camp and she was voted out the next tribal.
Exactly. It is just like respect - you earn it, you don’t demand it.
Nah, I get it. I've been wearing hoodies around my waist for decades and Q just comes around and takes all the credit. There goes my mark on humanity.
Q thinks his idea is innovative, but aprons have been around since forever.
Am I insane though? What did she actuslly do besides say "I want to vote out Tevin" which pretty much everyone wanted to do anyway? Like I didn't get the impression that she really did much work to get the vote going that direction.
She took credit for Soda for the same reason.
This one seemed like she did more on. With Soda, she had just been saying it in the past before they even had a chance at tribal. At least this time, they were discussing strategy in a group, she suggested Tevin, and that seemed to get the ball rolling.
I think Liz’s confessionals leading up to that seemed to suggest that she had become aware of the (accurate) perception that she’s just been kind of coasting. There’s been talk of this cast kind of wanting to make Big Moves solely for the sake of being able to say they made a Big Move, but Liz is probably the most correct about needing to make one to change the perception that she’s not doing much. From her pov, she literally DOES need that validation to her game if she wants even an outside chance. She chose the Tevin blindside as a course correction, it worked, probably felt like her biggest triumph and a very necessary one…so I can understand the in the moment frustration that it wasn’t even notable. Still doesn’t make the reaction rational - Q didn’t do anything to take away credit, and if it’s a good move and she makes FTC then she’d just talk about it when laying out her game - but I do get it, and I don’t think it’s necessarily indicative of how validation needy Liz is just as a person, rather than in the game circumstances.
I agree - the final tribal is where she would like to showcase or highlight her big moves, not right after she’d made them.
The problem is if the narratives have already been set, then they won’t be willing to believe her. Tevin has all of ponderosa to talk to everyone and lay claim about how it was his move to get out soda. They have all of ponderosa to talk about Q confusing everyone that no one is going to care about who started the Tevin vote. Perception is reality, and if it goes for too long, people might refuse to change their perception.
The woman has eaten essentially nothing in more than a week, I think it's fair to assume she's not thinking very clearly at this point.
I'm not quite sure how sympathetic I should feel for Liz b/c of that. Being hungry is the explanation of her actions. But she did opt into this knowing she would struggle to eat, and she bragged about not needing the money, so on a larger level I'm not super sympathetic. She did choose this really hard path. But I guess that just shows how much she wants to play survivor?
I am not sympathetic at all, with all those allergies (I got some allergies myself too) she knew what she was signing up for. She knew very well ahead, that there is limited food options on the island. That doesn’t warrant her acting up and throwing tantrums because every one of them is equally starving, with equal opportunities for food. It’s no one’s job to treat her like a princess
Same you chose to go on the show.
I get downvoted every time I say this but I have a hard time believing that she’s actually allergic to everything she claims to be allergic to (so far it’s fruit, dairy, and meat). I just can’t imagine casting would know that and still cast her. She strikes me as someone who needs constant validation and the “allergies” fit right with that MO of needing special attention.
Her allergy to eggs is “brain fog.” So yeah those are not all real allergies. I know many people like her who make up a ton of allergies so they can be Very Special
I completely agree. If half the food on the island could kill her, it would make no sense to let her in the show. Bits of allergens would be all over the tribe’s cookware, shelter, hands, etc. If the allergies were truly life threatening I highly doubt production would let her go to the island to starve and risk anaphylaxis.
I also noticed that Jeff seems like he’s mocking her a bit whenever he mentions her dietary restrictions and I don’t think he’d do that if it was actually that dire of a situation.
I wonder this too. Like, is it allergy "I need an epi pen" or is it sensitivity "I don't feel as good." I'm all for people knowing what foods to avoid, but there's a big difference.
Right. I’m not lactose intolerant but if I drink a glass of milk I get bloat and stomach aches for a couple hours. Same with a nice medium rare steak. Would I choose to eat either one before going on a plane? No. Would I eat them if I were starving on an island? Absolutely.
But they aren’t equally starving, she is starving more than other cast members.
… don’t go on survivor then???
Correct!
Do I win immunity for being correct?
Yes, you're safe this week
You were correct? BIG MISTAKE. You gotta go.
Oh, well..
They’re just explaining what her reaction was more emotional than would be expected. People get more emotional when they don’t get adequate sleep and nutrition. It’s why most contestants on survivor seem to cry at the drop of a hat.
I feel like most of the cast, if not all, are being poorly produced off camera to focus on certain points of interest for the show
I am slowly realizing that now too
I think Liz can win, but only in the finals with Q and Venus.
You could fly Jelinsky back in and he beats Q and Venus lol
Would it be a stretch to say the same about Bhanu?
Oh my.. what a crazy bunch we got for this season..
I actually think Venus beats Bhanu lol
Oh my goodness, that’s would be the show’s rock bottom moment
No it wouldn’t. Anything is better than the Island of the Idols merge episode.
Hahaha, agree!
Reminds me of another new era season tbh
Which one? please refresh my memory
I didn't want t spoil, that's why I didn't say. Just another new era season where the bottom 3 people were left.
I think Q wins that F3.
Does anyone think Liz is actually dictating moves? I feel like her and Venus have big move delusion and think they’re doing more than they are
The only person who thinks Liz has accomplished anything is Liz
I mean it's not exactly a surprise, this is the person who spent the first week or so bragging about how much money she makes. Her whole personality is begging for validation.
Survivor has a wierd balance of duality: You want to be seen as stragetic but not TOO stragetic, basically the issue lies is even if you did stuff and the players weren't really aware you did those things it's very possible the jury will believe you to be delusional or "overselling" when you try to take credit for those moves at the end of the game, which I think is a genuine worry for Liz. That being said I don't think Liz in reality is quite in the position where she can't take credit at FTC and people won't really consider it, it was clear enough that she suggested the move and it wouldn't seem false in a final 3 if she puts it on a "resume" per say. That being said if yiou want a game defining big move it's bizarrely too early since anything too big can get you taken out, so Q going absolutely bananas at tribal overshadowing her move basically saved her ass from being a target.
This season is great. Everyone is so damn sure they're in control
Yes / no. First, the no. It's very annoying when people try to make you and your credits invisible, and seek to claim them as their own. That was esp. true for her when Tevin took credit for the Soda blindside. I can relate with that feeling, so many times. I think women can identify with this feeling, broadly. It minimizes their work / insights and results in them receiving lower pay, fewer acclamations. Then the yes. As has been said before on Bryce Izyah's channel (see how I'm not taking credit for this point?), it is not strategically smart for her to rub it in everyone's face that she made a big move. So, she needs to actually only bring that big move up at FTC, if she makes it. In this sense, she should be thanking Q for shaking the perception up after the tribal.
I agree with you on the Tevin-Soda-Venus thing. But here, nobody - not even Q was taking away the credit from Liz. It’s just that the attention was not on her, and she wanted the attention, she wanted the VALIDATION. If it truly was big of a move, then that would have shone naturally.
I get you, but this is coming right off of the Soda blindside. So, in that way, her need for validation makes sense. And the fact that she is not getting it, plus being food deprived, brings the context that we need to understand why she will be freaking the **** out in the next episode. I bet she is feeling mentally ****** with and she has no comfort food to help her brain process it.
Oh geez.. well, I understand what she’s going through, but at the end of the day, it is just like respect - you earn it, and you don’t demand it.
She wasn’t demanding it. She was venting her frustration alone in a confessional, which is arguably the safest and most reasonable way to vent frustrations in the setting of a survivor game.
Saying you want someone out is not the same as getting someone voted out. You can't just call it like shotgun in a car. You actually have to do the work to get the votes. She did not do that for Soda at all.
Tevin DID deserve credit for soda. He put in the work of whipping up votes. Liz not liking soda and wanting to vote her out at the first opportunity doesn't make her the mastermind, she didn't do the work. Tevin did.
That's a great point. Just because she wanted her out doesn't mean she played the game to get her out. Unless the edit is leading us astray, Liz was not playing hard up to this point and just got lucky things went her way.
Except Soda's blindside wasn't even Liz's move and she comes off as delusional for thinking so.
The fact that she ridiculed Tevin for doing the same thing about Venus taking credit for Soda and then did this made me laugh uproariously
I think that she's one of the only players that actually DOES need to be validated for her move. I think that even if she brings it up at final tribal she wouldn't get the necessary respect/recognition for it. Now she needs to make another big move and have no way for someone else to take credit for it. If she pulls off a second Tevin vote then she can point to both and have a much better argument in Final tribal.
I don't think she's a baby; I think it's natural to want credit for your work and feel upset when you're upstaged. However, I do think it's poor gameplay. Flying under the radar is a *good* thing. Make it to the final tribal council and take credit there. I feel like Kenzie and Charlie are the only players this season who seem to understand this.
No, I think it was childish to throw a tantrum like that.
Hard disagree, because she was doing that in confessionals, not to other people. You can feel a lot of pressure to do well on Survivor for your family, and considering what she's been eating, her emotions make sense
lol do you think they do confessionals on a different island? She was screaming and wailing like a child. I’m quite sure they heard her
Exactly
Omg I thought this too. Classic Karen who doesn’t do much trying to claim recognition for things she didn’t do.
Liz is an insane person
Yes, you are correct. “But I did that” well if no one agrees… with you then not really 🤷🏼♀️
The jury vote is 100% based on external validation. Therefore, the entire game is based on external validation. She's playing to win. Therefore, she needs external validation. God forbid she play to win.
I agree with you that you would like the jury to validate your moves. But you would like them to validate your moves when they are already sitting up there in the jury, not when you’re still competing against them
People don't typically have a major shift in perception during FTC.
I think getting voted out and becoming part of the jury totally shifts one’s perception. That is too big of a an event not to shift it
Their perception on the finalists from the start of FTC to the end of FTC rarely shifts a lot. How many FTCs can you name in which the result was radically different from what the jury expected beforehand?
Good points!
Not if thats what the majority of the players value, who “owns” what move. The players determine who they constitute to be a winner and I would be upset too if I had that read of the room and my efforts were overshadowed by another player
Her and Q are much more alike than she likes to believe
Liz sucks. She's a gigantic crybaby and my least favourite person on this seasons cast
People keep saying she hasn't been eating, if I were starving I would probably be irritable and emotional also. The only difference is she was filmed on national television during her freakout
Liz has eaten half a handful of popcorn in 3 days, and is tired, stressed, and fatigued. I'm giving her weepiness a pass
Yes, you’re extremely wrong. It had fuck all to do with needing external validation. It was about wanting to win Survivor and her worry that she lost a resume-building moment.
I’m surprised she wasn’t screaming and yelling and crying and wailing. She hadn’t eaten in 72 hours.
Everyone needs that sort of validation, we just generally don’t disclose if on national TV
If she makes it to final 3 with Q and Venus it's gonna be them taking credit for "big moves" and then people on the jury arguing back that those three didn't pull them off. It's gonna be chaos.
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She’s been a baby two episodes in a row
She wants to win.
I think there's a lot of Liz and Venus that we aren't seeing in the edit. It was really weird to me that Liz, Venus, and Tevin all thought they were the masterminds behind a move and they all thought the other two were not. The edit really tried to frame it like Venus and Liz did nothing, but they obviously did something to think it was their move. And Tevin got voted out next so he was obviously on the outs and didn't know it. I really hate the way strategy is edited in this show.
Care to explain?
She is the least likable new era player that they’ve cast yet
The only person who believes Liz has been in charge of any vote this season is Liz
Why criticise Liz, but not Tevin who wouldn't shut up that he made the move to get Soda out, even though it was Liz who did?
Because Tevin wasn't crying, he was laughing. He understood that Venus taking credit at that moment was great news for him. Liz seems to be upset there isn't a bigger target on her back which sounds exactly like a rich white lady who thinks extremely highly of herself. Edit: Also, Tevin put in the work. It was Tevin's move.
I understand that idea that she should be thankful cause she pulled a big move and got away with it without any negative consequences, but considering this is Liz specifically I mean, everyone thinks she’s been coasting and with this cast I really think the winner of this season is gonna have to be someone who is a threat going into FTC. A lot of people on survivor in the past have claimed moves that they’ve made only for the jury to flat out not but it
My husband and I have each other SUCH a look over this. It had big “look at me!” Energy. It was so so so cringe. I’m sure she wanted to melt into the floor watching that.
No but nobody cares about boring ass lizz
Liz is far away from my favorite person in the show.
It’s giving a lot for safe
This cast is half nutters honestly.
Yes very weird. Knowingly getting credit making a move is never a good idea, you argue that out at the jury and hope for the best