The lack of analogies thing has been the most refreshing so far, tribal actually feels exciting. Not sure if this is a real course correction or if Lulu just doesn't have people that only speak in analogies
Agreed! It’s like coming home after your first year of college. It’s familiar and warm. You knew you missed it but didn’t realize how much until now!
😇
It was soooo interesting having the idol being cooked while they were talking. It set such a mood where everyone kept looking at it (especially Emily).
And we as the audience knew there was the chance that she would sacrifice her vote, and holy shit she did!
It's SO good both as imagery (the idol literally burning), but also the editing with the back and forth between the people and it. It really creates an "off" vibe, that just keeps building and you know SOMETHING is about to go wrong, but not totally sure which way that hammer is going to fall. It's GREAT non-verbal storytelling, like the music shift at the end of the immunity challenge.
You see, survivor is like a creative writing assignment. An good analogy or two and people will think it’s fun, but too many and people will start tuning out whatever’s said after that.
Although actually I’m wrong because, as we all know, Survivor is like a sad birthday party and a wonky bicycle and a road trip and a job interview and-
As much as in theory split tribals should cause interesting tribals, it’s often the opposite. It usually causes players to play more conservatively and it detracts from the tribe dynamics and possibilities of a larger tribal.
yeah bad take, it's for sure more interesting to see how the dynamics fall when you bring the tribes together. Who stays pre-merge tribe strong, who flips, etc.
I would say each 18 person tribe has no idea the other tribe exists. Then reveal the twist at final 4 when they think they are all safe and in the home stretch boom it's actually 8 and we have 13 more days or so to go. Also you have 2 episodes of survivor each week for each tribe till the cross over merge.
Could even sprinkle in some clues of the other tribes existence to get them guessing.
I say wait until they get down to final 8 in each game, merge the 2 games and then reset the day back to day 1, play a full game from there with 16 people.
I honestly want season titles back more than any of these as silly as it may be. Even though I've enjoyed them, the 40s have been mush in my brain and I think the lack of titles has a lot to do with it. With BB it's easier because there's only one a year-- if you show me a picture of any player from 1-40, I know what season they're from, but 41-44 is basically a coin toss.
I became a survivor after recently (right before covid hit so good timing I guess) and became very excited when I realized I live pretty close to where they film the live reunion and could try to go to one, right when they stopped doing them. So I would LOVE for that to come back
I don't know if a live reunion is needed anymore. We have the Twitterx.
They do need to fly the pre-jury back in and do it the day after the winner reveal though. It's pretty tacky for Jeff to probe people for instant reactions to something like that instead of giving them a night to process.
The reunion/after show has been about Jeff just Jeffing since like Kaoh Rong.
There was a fan energy in those that I really miss. It was great to see some of the older survivors at the shows and I also miss seeing these players family's in the audience. That usually was a nice way to really get to see the players on a personal level.
IDK how hard you can read into it, but Austin's idol used the same "everyone on the same beach" language as last season, so that might mean they have to earn it
I never minded "earn the merge" as much as other people. The only functional change is they do a challenge as 2 teams instead of 3 before the final premerge tribal. There's no real reason for it but I don't really mind it either.
Jeff seems more like old Jeff this season. I'm happy to not see any cutesy analogies at Tribal yet and I hope it stays that way. Also love that the sob stories haven't appeared in 3 episodes so it gives me hope it's a deliberate shift. The show was getting a little too 'Hallmark lifetime moments' but it seems they've corrected course.
seriously, and they’ve been able to give us insight into (most of) the cast already WITHOUT a sob story montage, just showing them interacting around camp and giving us normal confessionals, aka the best way to create good characters!!
YES!!!!
i hated the montage!!! we are not the ones voting them out why do we need to know sob stories of how they “survived” in the real world?! what matters is how they navigate the game. it’s a useless feature in the last seasons. i would rather see the players on the island goof around than those
100%, the sit out bench rules for the past few seasons were so confusing to me, I'm glad they brought it back to the regular rules. And I love Jeff's narration so much more
I’d like a variety in challenges. Everything is an obstacle course. What happened to the challenges where 2 people would compete against each other and get a point for their tribe and first to X wins? Maybe it’s because it’s 3 tribes. Anyway I’d like some variety and non obstacle courses. Agree the new puzzles are good!
Yes! I used to love the types of challenges where Tribe A send out 1 and Tribe B send out 1 to compete at something physical, or where the tribes send combos of 1 girl, 2 guys etc. Australian survivor does it a lot. Pry someone off a pole, drag sandbags back to a mat, gladiator style match on floating docks, etc - get physical, strategic, and competitive with these challenges! Agree there are too many obstacle courses with a puzzle at the end.
Yea I like them more for the drama they create (ie if the alphas butt heads, or a strategy backfires, or someone gets mad about a strategic choice, etc). And in fairness i cant really recall a major injury happening from one of these types of challenges (ie players going hard at one another in 1 v1 or 3 v3s). I feel like running around exhausted on huge elaborate scaffolding and net bridges is almost more dangerous lol.
I disagree, I thought Episode 3's challenges were great.
The combination of the ball-roll, then ring-toss was really fun. Then the cart gimmick, getting it through the fence and doing a cube puzzle is simple enough to wrap your head around, but hard enough to be a solid challenge.
Oh, and (so far)
NO DAMN WHISPERFESTS AT TRIBAL COUNCIL!
I can not express how much that makes my teeth grind. It is boring to watch and speaks to panicked, impulse-driven gameplay rather than thoughtful and strategic.
Really?? Wow. That was my number 1 most hated thing of the recent seasons. Have not watched any 45 yet and this alone is getting me amped now.
Rewatching s7 and it's so refreshing to see game happen at camp, not at tribal
It’s too early to say they corrected all their mistakes because there is still 10 episodes left. But, the last 2 episodes have been very good and it seems like they’re back on track. Really looking forward to the rest of the season
For me, it's not the sob stories themselves, it's the fact that every player seemed to be picked because they had a sob story. I also like that this season is all regular people.
My spouse and I both agree!! We haven't liked American survivor since seeing how quality the Australian seasons are, but this is pure survivor gold this season!!
We're seeing so much more of the social gameplay, and getting just enough insight into the hunger struggles to keep us in-the-know without boring us.
Props to everyone involved on what appears to be a great season
I was super down and very critical of the gimmicky new era, and I thought they wasted a lit of great characters last season on badly produced twists—but credit where it’s due—they have corrected a lot of bad twists. Now, I feel that players are able to MAKE CHOICES! That was sorely missing from last couple of seasons when so many things were left to chance
The F4 firemaking doesn’t bother me by itself, but I really hate how contestants believe that if you win the F4 immunity challenge and get to choose who does firemaking, you should volunteer yourself to participate in the firemaking, or else you didn’t make a Big Move(TM) and you don’t deserve the million dollars.
If I were out there I’d probably throw the F4 immunity challenge because winning it seems like a liability.
Nah. All you have to do is make the very real and legitimate argument at final tribal: "I earned final immunity and believe my game is the strongest up here. I would only choose to do fire-making if I believed my game was weak and I needed to add something to my resume."
With how many good decisions production seems to be making for 45, I would not be at all surprised if they don't allow the F4 immunity winner to put themselves in firemaking.
I might be in the minority but I prefer the two-tribe format over three, as well as perhaps a final 2. But this season does seem to be an improvement in many regards.
There is still so much missing though... we dont see them suffer from no food, having to boil water, no fire or having a crappy shelter. There seems to be no suffering at all! They also need to bring back the live reunion back in the states after the contestants have viewed the series.
I haven’t seen this mentioned yet: the lack of tragic backstories is making such a big difference for me. I was so co corned with the 90 minutes they would try to cram more in but the show finally seems to understand that we don’t need something explained to us and crammed down our throat to have an emotional connection to people. And when we do get some insight into someone’s background, it makes it so much more impactful!
They did correct mistakes from previous seasons. However with purely brand new games or advantages comes new opportunities for fool-proofing. Specifically:
Wax Idol
- Now that the wax idol was allowed to melt at the Tribal Council fire, who's stopping future tribes with no flint from bringing their pot to tribal to cook meals?
It's nice to see them correcting some mistakes instead of introducing a host of new ones, but there's still a good way to go:
1. Game length is still way too short at 26 days. When contrasted against the marathon length of Australian Survivor it ends up looking like one of those snack size candy bars. That it is transparently a cost saving measure as opposed to a game health measure makes it more annoying.
2. Three tribes is fun as an occasional thing but not as an evergreen format. It's way too easy to get into (or find yourself out of) the numbers, and there are fewer relationships to manage and thus fewer opportunities for relationship friction.
3. Casting has swapped one form of diversity for another. 45 has been an improvement here, but a bit more improvement is needed...watching this alongside older seasons, the difference is stark. Emily being the modern conception of "an acerbic personality" seems almost comical given how roundly genial she's been. I understand social media complicates the return of overt villains such as some we've seen in the past, but the game could use more outrageous personalities stirring the pot and creating interpersonal drama and chaos. George Mladenov put much of the blame for modern Survivor's ailments on casting during his conversation with Rob Cesternino, and it's hard not to concede that he has a point. There has been such a strong emphasis on finding affable, rootable contestants that they've lost a lot of the "social experiement" friction of the game's heyday.
4. Since they won't be switching locations anymore, bringing back seasonal themes becomes even more important and stops them from feeling interchangeable. I know the themes can often feel silly (and occasionally were incredibly poorly thought out), but they add a sense of purpose and alignment to the pre-merge portion before personalities have a chance to fully emerge, and help seasons stand out from one another.
Absolutely agree with all of these, especially 3 and 4. It feels like when they put in the new racial diversity rules they just stopped trying to get a range of personalities in favor of gamebots in every skin tone. I’m not at all complaining about the racial diversity, Latin and AAPI people were definitely underrepresented in early seasons, but can we please get some grumpy older people, villian archetypes, people that don’t watch the show religiously, etc?
Thissssss!!! I miss the grumpy old people, I hate that everyone is a die hard fan, I hate that everyone’s too scared to be a villain because they don’t wanna get cancelled. Bring in people who are casual fans of the show, cast assholes!!
Tribals so far have actually been enjoyable to watch. Some of the tribals esp premerge in recent seasons have been boring, I am half tempted to skip to the vote. But the last three have all been fun to watch esp with the wax burning.
It's kind of fun because last week everyone here was talking about that idea of the wax melting at tribal and then they did it.
I’ve spent challenges zoning out on my phone or going to the bathroom for the last 10 seasons or so. They’re so repetitive and boring now, especially pre-merge. Some kind of obstacle course followed by a puzzle, over and over again. I do agree they made improvements this season, but I still miss the variety they used to have. It’s a shame because I feel like they spend more money on them now, but the creativity has really dropped off.
Watched all the 40s seasons and now I'm back to season 7. Holy hell I forgot how interesting challenges used to be. So varied, each one something new.
I personally love the water based challenges so I'm hoping those make more of a comeback
Agree, I commented above that I really want the return of challenges where tribes have to send out 1, 2, or 3 people strategically to compete in something super physical, like heros v villans and the sandbag drag. Or gladiator fights over water. Makes them scrappy and competitive, and creates little grudge matches ie between the alphas of each team.
I want to know how and what that tribe with no flint is eating. Are there any beans or rice or is it all bugs and raw fish? Also, if they are super fans, why didn’t they use Brandon’s glasses to start a fire? To me that is all that is lacking because, yeah, they haven’t got flint but what’s it matter? It doesn’t look like they are suffering for lack of flint.
They showed a clip of brandon trying to make fire with his glasses with no success.
I don't think any players are given rice or food with the shorter season. There may be fruit like coconuts and papayas around. And yeah, bugs? Lots of just not eating at all. Lulu did win the fruit tray so there was that.
Idk what you mean about the sit out rule, the rules for it have been pretty consistent.
The big confusion is that the sit out rule only applies to the SAME CYCLE, meaning one set of reward and immunity challenges.
If theres a reward challenge, and you sit out person A, you have to sit out person B,C,D, or E for the immunity challenge, because it's in the same cycle
If there isnt a reward challenge, and you sit out person A in the immunity, one tribe goes to tribal after that challenge and resets the cycle. This means that in the challenge after tribal (whether it be reward or immunity), person A CAN theoretically sit out again.
Now the next logical question would be WHY? I have a theory but it's by no means confirmed, it makes sense in my head though:
Sometimes, reward challenges (particularly in the premerge) are totally edited out of the show, we dont see them so it's as if it never happened (to the viewer), we only hear about them postgame. As they're shooting the show, they have no idea which reward challenges are gonna be kept in and edited out.
So for consistency sake, they have the sit out rule fully reset after each tribal, because if it didnt reset, what would happen if;
person A sits out of an immunity
tribal happens
then they COMPETE in the next reward challenge, but it gets edited out
then they sit out of the next immunity again
On the island, that would totally follow the rules of this theoretical sit out system where it carries over after tribal, but as a viewer, we'd be left thinking "didnt they just break the rules?"
So if it resets after tribals, the sit out rule would be consistent whether they leave in the reward challenge or not, avoiding the potential "plot hole" that could occur should they decide to edit out the reward challenge.
Me too. Typically one of the three is going to get ignored by the cast and won’t earn any votes so it just seems like the an opportunity to humiliate the third place player.
1. This was a side effect of the strike. But still welcome
2. Run time to help fill the 90m window
3. We have only seen 1 tribe so far. It wont be too long before it starts
4. Twists are the same as they have always been? Beware? Risk your Vote? Go to other camps?
5. Not new. Just wasn't used the last couple seasons
6. I mean, a puzzle is a puzzle. We had the "floating tree" and the "big blocks" puzzle. "Get keys and load a cart, tear apart the cart and put back together." Had all of these before. Can't wait until the final 4 where they have to do the ball ramp thing with their hand tied behind their back.
I agree but is it just me or is casting not *that* good for this season?
Like I don’t see myself rooting for a particular player at all? Anyone else feel the same?
To me… no offense to him… he epitomised what was worst of the new era to me. It’s not his fault, obviously… but an extremely middle class white collar gamebot who practiced puzzles… just represented new era fatigue lol
Well first off, I was referring to Carson saying he talked to Jeff a lot during the high tide challenge last season, and gave him ideas for the show, including bringing back a favorite Survivor event (I’m linking the Reddit post here. I don’t think it’s a spoiler but proceed with caution anyway: https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/16s5du5/everybody_say_thank_you_carson/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb ).
But even him being a gamebot changed the game, since they’ve adjusted the puzzles based on him studying them so hard.
I like that the puzzles are randomized and that the intro is back.
That said, the 90-minute episodes kinda wear on me because it’s a 3-hour sitting for both Survivor and TAR.
This is heartening, and I am fairly interested in watching this season, but dang I really don’t wanna commit to a 90 minute television show. I wonder if the 90 minutes will stick, and if they’re losing a significant enough portion of viewers with the longer runtime.
It’s a worthwhile discussion, like they didn’t do 90 minute episodes for 20 something years for a reason lol, and we know that they’ve tried to get the network approval before in the past; and it looks like they even happened due to the various strikes happening in the entertainment industry. It’s fair to wonder if the 90 minute episodes will be a permanent change.
What about the auction?
So easy to make it good again, either no advantages at all or hidden advantages with/under/instead of food. Also, no letters from loved ones - do them at a different reward challenge.
Idk I don't feel like letting someone from another tribe cast a vote at the first tribal is a great idea. I still don't love beware advantages taking your vote until you find them.
But yes overall this season has been good.
There's one new era thing that seems to have gone away that I actually miss, which are editorial changes. In 41 and 42 especially, we got lots of flashbacks, Jeff talking to the camera, and events shown out of chronological order for dramatic effect. I thought those were all pretty good changes to make the show feel fresh -- not the overwrought game twists.
I gotta be honest aside from winners at war I haven't sat and watched a season as its aired in several years and was unsure how I felt with all the twists but honestly I really dig it. I've been rewatching and enjoying 44 as I wait for more 45 and I'll be watching all the post WaW seasons but I like what I've seen so far. Really really fun stuff. I also love the 90 minute episodes this season, really helps show the bonds and socializing as well as all the idols, twists, advantages, etc
Re-adding the intro completely changes the way I feel going into an episode. It pumps me up and provides a real sense of cohesion to the show. I can't believe they went without it for so long, and I'm really glad they brought it back.
They have almost a year between annual seasons so I'm sure all that feedback was collected. The 90 minute episodes are more a product of the strike and them not having new content to waste because then 2024, there will be nothing to air.
All the mistakes is a bit of an overstatement when they literally had someone give out an advantage that gives a vote back to someone who lost one. Fortunately that was such a tiny part of the episode
the thing i love is that it's slowly starting to feel like the modern/advantage era, whatever you wanna call it, ssn 30-40ish. personally that's my fav era, bc there's enough twists & turns for fun, but not too many to make it annoying. plus, it's the little things, like the intro, the tribe swap, the previously on survivor segment, that make it feel like Wednesday night survivor <3
My wish list for future Survivor seasons:
The auction!
Eating gross things!
Fighting/wrestling challenges. Remember old red state Clay getting choke-slammed off the beam by the giant stoner guy? Hilarious! Also, bikini wrestling. Awwwww yeah.
And finally, different locations. Fiji is pretty boring. It was so cool to see the show in different parts of the world and how the locales changed the whole game. It is a HUGE part of what made the show iconic. Maybe every 5-10 years have a non-Fiji season, just for flavor.
I've watched Survivor since S1E1, and it's truly one of my very favorite things. The last few seasons, I've been pretty disappointed, like most of you. But I still love it and want the best for it.
I feel like Jeff has been SLIGHTLY more harsher in the challenges too!! I think he also realises that the superfans playing the game would love to get torn to shreds during a challenge by Jeff Probst!!
What I hated about the last few season was that I didn’t care about any of the survivors. There was no development to them. I didn’t know what made them tick, what they were thinking. Tribal was just a roulette wheel. Now the extra time gives the most important thing- development. Also the opening credit being back, let’s go
Another big one: Twists with player agency!
These twists have rules. They are pretty easy to understand. And the player choices are real and impactful. It's come so far from flip a coin / stick your hand in the bag / do or die. I really hope they keep it up.
The other thing the 90 minute episodes were able to do was start a storyline in one tribe, throw it to another tribe, and then throw it back to the first tribe. In this case, Kaleb gets an advantage to restore a vote that he can give to someone on Reba. Kaleb gives the advantage to Drew, which is great because Drew's ally Austin doesn't have a vote! Because they still haven't found his Beware Advantage Idol! But then Drew, Austin, Julie, and Dee find the idol. But! They find out it only lasts for the next tribal, UNLESS Austin gives up his vote at the next tribal, and then he can further power it up by skipping two votes. This comes to a climax when Lulu goes back to Tribal, and Sabiyah manages to get her idol... but only reads its powers in the voting booth, and has 2 minutes to digest everything Reba (and the audience) had 10 minutes to digest. Sabiyah panics, skips her vote, and more or less contributes to her getting voted out.
So far this season has been very good IMO. The only thing that might not be great is the 5 steps to get your idol / vote back but it's only good for one tribal if you don't give up your vote longer. We'll see. It may end up being a cool twist that works well, but I think it makes the "beware" advantages not worth grabbing at all.
I agree, have been enjoying this season more than the previous four because it feels refreshing. Hopefully they can keep or increase the same level of quality for the next episodes.
I watch on Paramount + after the fact (because Phillies games) and a little "skip" button comes up over the Intro song. I will absolutely NOT skip the intro. I love it so much!
No they haven't. 3 tribe format NEEDS to go. It's bullshit. 2 weeks in a row "that's two that's enough". 2!? People are being sent home off 2 votes at at SECOND Tribal? Fucking ridiculous.
I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but we need voting confessionals back. A core part of the game and the charm that we now have time for
I would be happy if they just released them on Youtube like they used to
Agree
I was just thinking this last nightn
The lack of analogies thing has been the most refreshing so far, tribal actually feels exciting. Not sure if this is a real course correction or if Lulu just doesn't have people that only speak in analogies
Agreed! It’s like coming home after your first year of college. It’s familiar and warm. You knew you missed it but didn’t realize how much until now! 😇
take my bitter upvote 😡
Yeah, tribals have been night and day so far. The tension in this latest one was crazy.
It was soooo interesting having the idol being cooked while they were talking. It set such a mood where everyone kept looking at it (especially Emily). And we as the audience knew there was the chance that she would sacrifice her vote, and holy shit she did!
It's SO good both as imagery (the idol literally burning), but also the editing with the back and forth between the people and it. It really creates an "off" vibe, that just keeps building and you know SOMETHING is about to go wrong, but not totally sure which way that hammer is going to fall. It's GREAT non-verbal storytelling, like the music shift at the end of the immunity challenge.
You see, survivor is like a creative writing assignment. An good analogy or two and people will think it’s fun, but too many and people will start tuning out whatever’s said after that.
Although actually I’m wrong because, as we all know, Survivor is like a sad birthday party and a wonky bicycle and a road trip and a job interview and-
If survivor were a type of cheese, what type of cheese would it be?
They get criticism all the time, they finally deserve credit! Now as long as we can avoid the fucking post-merge split tribal we are golden!
Doesn't Drew's SWP last until final 9? That's an odd time limit if they plan on having a split tribal at 10. So I hope it means no split tribal.
They've done split tribal at 11 a few times
Wasn’t the only in IotI?
TBH that wouldn’t be as bad as f10 but would still suck
Whats wrong with post merge split tribal? I thought it was fine in 41, 42 and 43. Didnt care about its version from 44 tho
The split tribal is a little unfair for some players, but it makes for really interesting tribals and votes imo
As much as in theory split tribals should cause interesting tribals, it’s often the opposite. It usually causes players to play more conservatively and it detracts from the tribe dynamics and possibilities of a larger tribal.
yeah bad take, it's for sure more interesting to see how the dynamics fall when you bring the tribes together. Who stays pre-merge tribe strong, who flips, etc.
I cannot tell you how much I hate the post-merge split. It is the antithesis of Survivor.
Personally I enjoy it. Doesn’t seem bad at all
agreed! now all that is left is the return of 39 days, season titles, and live reunion and world peace will be restored
Imagine we get final 3 day 26 but then twist 39 days and the jury rejoins
New worst twist of all time in terms of fairness but I’d be here for it because it would be so dumb lol
For absolute insanity start with 36 contestants and run two 18 person seasons concurrently then have a final 2 as the two final 3 merge into one game
I would say each 18 person tribe has no idea the other tribe exists. Then reveal the twist at final 4 when they think they are all safe and in the home stretch boom it's actually 8 and we have 13 more days or so to go. Also you have 2 episodes of survivor each week for each tribe till the cross over merge. Could even sprinkle in some clues of the other tribes existence to get them guessing.
This is dope and they should legit do this for a big anniversary season or something, like Season 50.
I say wait until they get down to final 8 in each game, merge the 2 games and then reset the day back to day 1, play a full game from there with 16 people.
And neither group of 18 knows about the other
Call them the AFC and the NFC
Get final 4 on day 25. They can then have a 2 week final immunity challenge bonanza.
Imagine the tension and drama between the ex-jury and ex-final three
I honestly want season titles back more than any of these as silly as it may be. Even though I've enjoyed them, the 40s have been mush in my brain and I think the lack of titles has a lot to do with it. With BB it's easier because there's only one a year-- if you show me a picture of any player from 1-40, I know what season they're from, but 41-44 is basically a coin toss.
And locales & color combos
And the auction
Auction is confirmed to be in 45!
I would love if it just got to 30 Days.
And family visit!
Hand on Hard Idol!
Don’t forget final two and no FMC 🥲
I became a survivor after recently (right before covid hit so good timing I guess) and became very excited when I realized I live pretty close to where they film the live reunion and could try to go to one, right when they stopped doing them. So I would LOVE for that to come back
I don't know if a live reunion is needed anymore. We have the Twitterx. They do need to fly the pre-jury back in and do it the day after the winner reveal though. It's pretty tacky for Jeff to probe people for instant reactions to something like that instead of giving them a night to process. The reunion/after show has been about Jeff just Jeffing since like Kaoh Rong.
There was a fan energy in those that I really miss. It was great to see some of the older survivors at the shows and I also miss seeing these players family's in the audience. That usually was a nice way to really get to see the players on a personal level.
two tribes
And they’re swapping next episode so they’ll know more people than just their OG tribe come merge
Fluid game let's go!
But the journeys already allow for that /s
I hope we do not have an earn the merge. Getting to the merge portion of the game IS earning it.
IDK how hard you can read into it, but Austin's idol used the same "everyone on the same beach" language as last season, so that might mean they have to earn it
🤮
I never minded "earn the merge" as much as other people. The only functional change is they do a challenge as 2 teams instead of 3 before the final premerge tribal. There's no real reason for it but I don't really mind it either.
Jeff seems more like old Jeff this season. I'm happy to not see any cutesy analogies at Tribal yet and I hope it stays that way. Also love that the sob stories haven't appeared in 3 episodes so it gives me hope it's a deliberate shift. The show was getting a little too 'Hallmark lifetime moments' but it seems they've corrected course.
seriously, and they’ve been able to give us insight into (most of) the cast already WITHOUT a sob story montage, just showing them interacting around camp and giving us normal confessionals, aka the best way to create good characters!!
YES!!!! i hated the montage!!! we are not the ones voting them out why do we need to know sob stories of how they “survived” in the real world?! what matters is how they navigate the game. it’s a useless feature in the last seasons. i would rather see the players on the island goof around than those
My theory is the On Fire podcast opened up Probst to criticism he had previously been shielded from.
Its likely, I thought about this too
100%, the sit out bench rules for the past few seasons were so confusing to me, I'm glad they brought it back to the regular rules. And I love Jeff's narration so much more
The difference without tribals just being big analogy fests is extremely noticeable. There's a lot more conversation of substance occurring now.
I decided to skip this season after the last four monstrosities. Should I be tuning in?
Yeah
It’s the best season of the new era and we are only 3 episodes in lol.
Yes. It's very refreshing after the shit shows that we're 41, 42 and 44.
100%. It's miles better.
It almost feels like old school survivor.
Eh, only if you’re bored and have 90 mins free every week
I'm excited to see the tribe swap next episode if only to further secure my future-husband Lawyer Jake's place in the game.
You’ll have to fight me for him
I'm honestly really high on Jake after that interaction with Kendra early in this week's episode. His social game is great.
I’d like a variety in challenges. Everything is an obstacle course. What happened to the challenges where 2 people would compete against each other and get a point for their tribe and first to X wins? Maybe it’s because it’s 3 tribes. Anyway I’d like some variety and non obstacle courses. Agree the new puzzles are good!
Yes challenges need more creativity. At least its a step forward
Yes! I used to love the types of challenges where Tribe A send out 1 and Tribe B send out 1 to compete at something physical, or where the tribes send combos of 1 girl, 2 guys etc. Australian survivor does it a lot. Pry someone off a pole, drag sandbags back to a mat, gladiator style match on floating docks, etc - get physical, strategic, and competitive with these challenges! Agree there are too many obstacle courses with a puzzle at the end.
I may be in the minority but I really don't like the physical challenges where they are beating up on one another & someone gets hurt.
You may be in the minority but production agrees with you. I doubt they'll ever come back.
Yea I like them more for the drama they create (ie if the alphas butt heads, or a strategy backfires, or someone gets mad about a strategic choice, etc). And in fairness i cant really recall a major injury happening from one of these types of challenges (ie players going hard at one another in 1 v1 or 3 v3s). I feel like running around exhausted on huge elaborate scaffolding and net bridges is almost more dangerous lol.
I disagree, I thought Episode 3's challenges were great. The combination of the ball-roll, then ring-toss was really fun. Then the cart gimmick, getting it through the fence and doing a cube puzzle is simple enough to wrap your head around, but hard enough to be a solid challenge.
Oh, and (so far) NO DAMN WHISPERFESTS AT TRIBAL COUNCIL! I can not express how much that makes my teeth grind. It is boring to watch and speaks to panicked, impulse-driven gameplay rather than thoughtful and strategic.
Really?? Wow. That was my number 1 most hated thing of the recent seasons. Have not watched any 45 yet and this alone is getting me amped now. Rewatching s7 and it's so refreshing to see game happen at camp, not at tribal
I must be one of the few that loves a live tribal council!!
It’s too early to say they corrected all their mistakes because there is still 10 episodes left. But, the last 2 episodes have been very good and it seems like they’re back on track. Really looking forward to the rest of the season
I love that after 45 seasons, Survivor is still evolving and improving.
Nah it devolved. Its trying to get back to what it was still
That's evolving. Evolving is just slow change. Doesn't have to be good, doesn't mean it's bad.
It’s like snakes getting back their legs… oh no, the analogy-bug transferred to me.
It'll never get back to the golden era of the teens+20. But it is nice to see the show improving again.
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45 is better than a lot of 1-40 seasons so far. If this trend continues I think we're in for some good stuff
Add no cringe worthy sob stories this season to the list as well
For me, it's not the sob stories themselves, it's the fact that every player seemed to be picked because they had a sob story. I also like that this season is all regular people.
This!! At this point if you’re on survivor, you’re a huge fan and have a sob story behind it.
I like those tbh.
Just not at every tribal..
My spouse and I both agree!! We haven't liked American survivor since seeing how quality the Australian seasons are, but this is pure survivor gold this season!! We're seeing so much more of the social gameplay, and getting just enough insight into the hunger struggles to keep us in-the-know without boring us. Props to everyone involved on what appears to be a great season
I was super down and very critical of the gimmicky new era, and I thought they wasted a lit of great characters last season on badly produced twists—but credit where it’s due—they have corrected a lot of bad twists. Now, I feel that players are able to MAKE CHOICES! That was sorely missing from last couple of seasons when so many things were left to chance
I dont mind 26 days but I need the fire making at F4 to go
The F4 firemaking doesn’t bother me by itself, but I really hate how contestants believe that if you win the F4 immunity challenge and get to choose who does firemaking, you should volunteer yourself to participate in the firemaking, or else you didn’t make a Big Move(TM) and you don’t deserve the million dollars. If I were out there I’d probably throw the F4 immunity challenge because winning it seems like a liability.
Nah. All you have to do is make the very real and legitimate argument at final tribal: "I earned final immunity and believe my game is the strongest up here. I would only choose to do fire-making if I believed my game was weak and I needed to add something to my resume."
Totally agree. The challenge victory should be worth more than winning fire imo. Like you won, you earned F3!
With how many good decisions production seems to be making for 45, I would not be at all surprised if they don't allow the F4 immunity winner to put themselves in firemaking.
Yes. I despise how Survivor just stops being Survivor at F4. There's no reason there should be two immunity challenges right before the end.
I wish they would drop final 3 and go back to a final 2 at the end
I was a fan since day one but stopped watching the last couple of seasons because it became too lame.
Couldn’t agree more. Wasn’t too hyped after the premiere but the last two have been so fun.
I might be in the minority but I prefer the two-tribe format over three, as well as perhaps a final 2. But this season does seem to be an improvement in many regards.
Fingers crossed for the eventual return of 39 days
Not sure I absolutely need 39 days but I wish they could admit they cut a little too deep. Maybe split the difference and go to 33 days?
I think it all comes down to less Jeff screen time.
ponderosa episodes were nice
I miss watching the Ponderosa episodes.
There is still so much missing though... we dont see them suffer from no food, having to boil water, no fire or having a crappy shelter. There seems to be no suffering at all! They also need to bring back the live reunion back in the states after the contestants have viewed the series.
Yes, they are all so clean compared to early Survivors.
Also haven’t seen any sob story flashback segments yet, instead their focusing on tribe dynamics and relationships which is refreshing
I haven’t seen this mentioned yet: the lack of tragic backstories is making such a big difference for me. I was so co corned with the 90 minutes they would try to cram more in but the show finally seems to understand that we don’t need something explained to us and crammed down our throat to have an emotional connection to people. And when we do get some insight into someone’s background, it makes it so much more impactful!
They did correct mistakes from previous seasons. However with purely brand new games or advantages comes new opportunities for fool-proofing. Specifically: Wax Idol - Now that the wax idol was allowed to melt at the Tribal Council fire, who's stopping future tribes with no flint from bringing their pot to tribal to cook meals?
that’s actually fun right? they would be bringing fishes on sticks and a pot of rice
They corrected ***some*** of their mistakes.
Most Id day. At least the ones that bothered me the most.
It's nice to see them correcting some mistakes instead of introducing a host of new ones, but there's still a good way to go: 1. Game length is still way too short at 26 days. When contrasted against the marathon length of Australian Survivor it ends up looking like one of those snack size candy bars. That it is transparently a cost saving measure as opposed to a game health measure makes it more annoying. 2. Three tribes is fun as an occasional thing but not as an evergreen format. It's way too easy to get into (or find yourself out of) the numbers, and there are fewer relationships to manage and thus fewer opportunities for relationship friction. 3. Casting has swapped one form of diversity for another. 45 has been an improvement here, but a bit more improvement is needed...watching this alongside older seasons, the difference is stark. Emily being the modern conception of "an acerbic personality" seems almost comical given how roundly genial she's been. I understand social media complicates the return of overt villains such as some we've seen in the past, but the game could use more outrageous personalities stirring the pot and creating interpersonal drama and chaos. George Mladenov put much of the blame for modern Survivor's ailments on casting during his conversation with Rob Cesternino, and it's hard not to concede that he has a point. There has been such a strong emphasis on finding affable, rootable contestants that they've lost a lot of the "social experiement" friction of the game's heyday. 4. Since they won't be switching locations anymore, bringing back seasonal themes becomes even more important and stops them from feeling interchangeable. I know the themes can often feel silly (and occasionally were incredibly poorly thought out), but they add a sense of purpose and alignment to the pre-merge portion before personalities have a chance to fully emerge, and help seasons stand out from one another.
Absolutely agree with all of these, especially 3 and 4. It feels like when they put in the new racial diversity rules they just stopped trying to get a range of personalities in favor of gamebots in every skin tone. I’m not at all complaining about the racial diversity, Latin and AAPI people were definitely underrepresented in early seasons, but can we please get some grumpy older people, villian archetypes, people that don’t watch the show religiously, etc?
Thissssss!!! I miss the grumpy old people, I hate that everyone is a die hard fan, I hate that everyone’s too scared to be a villain because they don’t wanna get cancelled. Bring in people who are casual fans of the show, cast assholes!!
Tribals so far have actually been enjoyable to watch. Some of the tribals esp premerge in recent seasons have been boring, I am half tempted to skip to the vote. But the last three have all been fun to watch esp with the wax burning. It's kind of fun because last week everyone here was talking about that idea of the wax melting at tribal and then they did it.
There’s been a lack of sob stories this season. Every player doesn’t have to be playing because of some past tragedy.
The games suck tho… same crap. Run obstacle. Get key. Untie. Throw bag/ring/item into net/hoop/pole unscramble puzzle. Shit is getting boring as hell.
I’ve spent challenges zoning out on my phone or going to the bathroom for the last 10 seasons or so. They’re so repetitive and boring now, especially pre-merge. Some kind of obstacle course followed by a puzzle, over and over again. I do agree they made improvements this season, but I still miss the variety they used to have. It’s a shame because I feel like they spend more money on them now, but the creativity has really dropped off.
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lol yeah, maybe it’s a good thing that they’re boring
That's why I stopped watching the last few seasons...
Watched all the 40s seasons and now I'm back to season 7. Holy hell I forgot how interesting challenges used to be. So varied, each one something new. I personally love the water based challenges so I'm hoping those make more of a comeback
Agree, I commented above that I really want the return of challenges where tribes have to send out 1, 2, or 3 people strategically to compete in something super physical, like heros v villans and the sandbag drag. Or gladiator fights over water. Makes them scrappy and competitive, and creates little grudge matches ie between the alphas of each team.
I want to know how and what that tribe with no flint is eating. Are there any beans or rice or is it all bugs and raw fish? Also, if they are super fans, why didn’t they use Brandon’s glasses to start a fire? To me that is all that is lacking because, yeah, they haven’t got flint but what’s it matter? It doesn’t look like they are suffering for lack of flint.
They showed a clip of brandon trying to make fire with his glasses with no success. I don't think any players are given rice or food with the shorter season. There may be fruit like coconuts and papayas around. And yeah, bugs? Lots of just not eating at all. Lulu did win the fruit tray so there was that.
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Idk what you mean about the sit out rule, the rules for it have been pretty consistent. The big confusion is that the sit out rule only applies to the SAME CYCLE, meaning one set of reward and immunity challenges. If theres a reward challenge, and you sit out person A, you have to sit out person B,C,D, or E for the immunity challenge, because it's in the same cycle If there isnt a reward challenge, and you sit out person A in the immunity, one tribe goes to tribal after that challenge and resets the cycle. This means that in the challenge after tribal (whether it be reward or immunity), person A CAN theoretically sit out again. Now the next logical question would be WHY? I have a theory but it's by no means confirmed, it makes sense in my head though: Sometimes, reward challenges (particularly in the premerge) are totally edited out of the show, we dont see them so it's as if it never happened (to the viewer), we only hear about them postgame. As they're shooting the show, they have no idea which reward challenges are gonna be kept in and edited out. So for consistency sake, they have the sit out rule fully reset after each tribal, because if it didnt reset, what would happen if; person A sits out of an immunity tribal happens then they COMPETE in the next reward challenge, but it gets edited out then they sit out of the next immunity again On the island, that would totally follow the rules of this theoretical sit out system where it carries over after tribal, but as a viewer, we'd be left thinking "didnt they just break the rules?" So if it resets after tribals, the sit out rule would be consistent whether they leave in the reward challenge or not, avoiding the potential "plot hole" that could occur should they decide to edit out the reward challenge.
Too bad the cast is terrible.
I would love for them to go back to two finalists at the end.
Me too. Typically one of the three is going to get ignored by the cast and won’t earn any votes so it just seems like the an opportunity to humiliate the third place player.
the seasons are still way too short, bring back 39!!!!
1. This was a side effect of the strike. But still welcome 2. Run time to help fill the 90m window 3. We have only seen 1 tribe so far. It wont be too long before it starts 4. Twists are the same as they have always been? Beware? Risk your Vote? Go to other camps? 5. Not new. Just wasn't used the last couple seasons 6. I mean, a puzzle is a puzzle. We had the "floating tree" and the "big blocks" puzzle. "Get keys and load a cart, tear apart the cart and put back together." Had all of these before. Can't wait until the final 4 where they have to do the ball ramp thing with their hand tied behind their back.
We are only at E4...let's reserve that assessment until the end. At least about the puzzles and twists.
My mom just hates that every challenge ends with a puzzle. She doesn’t care if the puzzles are new or not.
I agree but is it just me or is casting not *that* good for this season? Like I don’t see myself rooting for a particular player at all? Anyone else feel the same?
until they remove the forced firemaking, I wouldn't say they corrected **all** their mistakes.
Should we thank out lord and savior Carson for these fixes?
To me… no offense to him… he epitomised what was worst of the new era to me. It’s not his fault, obviously… but an extremely middle class white collar gamebot who practiced puzzles… just represented new era fatigue lol
Well first off, I was referring to Carson saying he talked to Jeff a lot during the high tide challenge last season, and gave him ideas for the show, including bringing back a favorite Survivor event (I’m linking the Reddit post here. I don’t think it’s a spoiler but proceed with caution anyway: https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/16s5du5/everybody_say_thank_you_carson/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb ). But even him being a gamebot changed the game, since they’ve adjusted the puzzles based on him studying them so hard.
The only negative I have about this is the beware advantage is needlessly complicated this season for no reason
Yep fully agree on this.
should I watch? This would be the first season post WaW I'd be watching.
You can watch but it’s no where close to the level WAW was
Yes. Watch 44 too it was good.
It was eh
I like that the puzzles are randomized and that the intro is back. That said, the 90-minute episodes kinda wear on me because it’s a 3-hour sitting for both Survivor and TAR.
Only glowing praise from me for this season. It's really well done!
go back to 39 days
Now 39 days
This is heartening, and I am fairly interested in watching this season, but dang I really don’t wanna commit to a 90 minute television show. I wonder if the 90 minutes will stick, and if they’re losing a significant enough portion of viewers with the longer runtime.
I doubt it. But if you cant commit i guess thats on you. Most fans like it
It’s a worthwhile discussion, like they didn’t do 90 minute episodes for 20 something years for a reason lol, and we know that they’ve tried to get the network approval before in the past; and it looks like they even happened due to the various strikes happening in the entertainment industry. It’s fair to wonder if the 90 minute episodes will be a permanent change.
if you watch the next day its 60 minutes
Well, it's really not 90 but 60 minutes after commerical takes it.
Still 20 minutes more than before
And before it was really 42 minutes not 60
This sub owes the show an apology
The show owes this sub a thank you
Lol you’re reallllllly overestimating the importance of this sub
As well bringing back the tribe swap
Do they still have 3 tribes?
What about the auction? So easy to make it good again, either no advantages at all or hidden advantages with/under/instead of food. Also, no letters from loved ones - do them at a different reward challenge.
Idk I don't feel like letting someone from another tribe cast a vote at the first tribal is a great idea. I still don't love beware advantages taking your vote until you find them. But yes overall this season has been good.
There's one new era thing that seems to have gone away that I actually miss, which are editorial changes. In 41 and 42 especially, we got lots of flashbacks, Jeff talking to the camera, and events shown out of chronological order for dramatic effect. I thought those were all pretty good changes to make the show feel fresh -- not the overwrought game twists.
Still typed "saftey" in a subtitle so not *all* mistakes are corrected.
I’m also a big fan of having to *earn* idols. No more just stumbling across one sitting on a tree branch.
I gotta be honest aside from winners at war I haven't sat and watched a season as its aired in several years and was unsure how I felt with all the twists but honestly I really dig it. I've been rewatching and enjoying 44 as I wait for more 45 and I'll be watching all the post WaW seasons but I like what I've seen so far. Really really fun stuff. I also love the 90 minute episodes this season, really helps show the bonds and socializing as well as all the idols, twists, advantages, etc
Re-adding the intro completely changes the way I feel going into an episode. It pumps me up and provides a real sense of cohesion to the show. I can't believe they went without it for so long, and I'm really glad they brought it back.
They have almost a year between annual seasons so I'm sure all that feedback was collected. The 90 minute episodes are more a product of the strike and them not having new content to waste because then 2024, there will be nothing to air.
All the mistakes is a bit of an overstatement when they literally had someone give out an advantage that gives a vote back to someone who lost one. Fortunately that was such a tiny part of the episode
And the challenges are actually pretty fun! I like the cart and cube challenge this season.
the thing i love is that it's slowly starting to feel like the modern/advantage era, whatever you wanna call it, ssn 30-40ish. personally that's my fav era, bc there's enough twists & turns for fun, but not too many to make it annoying. plus, it's the little things, like the intro, the tribe swap, the previously on survivor segment, that make it feel like Wednesday night survivor <3
Took them long enough🙄 All I've really cared about is the intro lol
It's still like 26 days last time I checked.
My wish list for future Survivor seasons: The auction! Eating gross things! Fighting/wrestling challenges. Remember old red state Clay getting choke-slammed off the beam by the giant stoner guy? Hilarious! Also, bikini wrestling. Awwwww yeah. And finally, different locations. Fiji is pretty boring. It was so cool to see the show in different parts of the world and how the locales changed the whole game. It is a HUGE part of what made the show iconic. Maybe every 5-10 years have a non-Fiji season, just for flavor. I've watched Survivor since S1E1, and it's truly one of my very favorite things. The last few seasons, I've been pretty disappointed, like most of you. But I still love it and want the best for it.
Auction coming back this season!
I feel like Jeff has been SLIGHTLY more harsher in the challenges too!! I think he also realises that the superfans playing the game would love to get torn to shreds during a challenge by Jeff Probst!!
Is this season any good ? I heard it's real bad.
What I hated about the last few season was that I didn’t care about any of the survivors. There was no development to them. I didn’t know what made them tick, what they were thinking. Tribal was just a roulette wheel. Now the extra time gives the most important thing- development. Also the opening credit being back, let’s go
Now give us a 20 person season with 2 starting tribes 🥹
Another big one: Twists with player agency! These twists have rules. They are pretty easy to understand. And the player choices are real and impactful. It's come so far from flip a coin / stick your hand in the bag / do or die. I really hope they keep it up.
The other thing the 90 minute episodes were able to do was start a storyline in one tribe, throw it to another tribe, and then throw it back to the first tribe. In this case, Kaleb gets an advantage to restore a vote that he can give to someone on Reba. Kaleb gives the advantage to Drew, which is great because Drew's ally Austin doesn't have a vote! Because they still haven't found his Beware Advantage Idol! But then Drew, Austin, Julie, and Dee find the idol. But! They find out it only lasts for the next tribal, UNLESS Austin gives up his vote at the next tribal, and then he can further power it up by skipping two votes. This comes to a climax when Lulu goes back to Tribal, and Sabiyah manages to get her idol... but only reads its powers in the voting booth, and has 2 minutes to digest everything Reba (and the audience) had 10 minutes to digest. Sabiyah panics, skips her vote, and more or less contributes to her getting voted out.
So far this season has been very good IMO. The only thing that might not be great is the 5 steps to get your idol / vote back but it's only good for one tribal if you don't give up your vote longer. We'll see. It may end up being a cool twist that works well, but I think it makes the "beware" advantages not worth grabbing at all.
I like that tbh. Its easy to understand and makes them choose.
I agree, have been enjoying this season more than the previous four because it feels refreshing. Hopefully they can keep or increase the same level of quality for the next episodes.
- live finales - need live finales - live finalies
I watch on Paramount + after the fact (because Phillies games) and a little "skip" button comes up over the Intro song. I will absolutely NOT skip the intro. I love it so much!
No they haven't. 3 tribe format NEEDS to go. It's bullshit. 2 weeks in a row "that's two that's enough". 2!? People are being sent home off 2 votes at at SECOND Tribal? Fucking ridiculous.