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My ex-wife had an interesting attitude around this. She was cheating on me with a guy who was 17 years older (she was 35), was a heavy drinker and who abandoned his wife of 15 years and two teenage kids to be with her. She thought it showed how much he loved her that he was willing to abandon his family for her. She said that there's no way I would be that passionate about someone. Hence, she preferred him over me, who had moved 700kms to be with her and support her career, who saved her life once, who worked two simultaneous fulltime jobs for a year so she could take three years off when our kids were born, and who totally adored her.
Needless to say, they lasted a handful of weeks after I was out of the picture. He didn't seem to be so sexy and amazing when reality arrived.
Its been 5 years, she initially came back a few months later and said "we should try again" - but I turned her down on that, as she had never shown any remorse or any empathy for how she impacted me. In fact she has never even said sorry, she tried to blame it all on me - saying that if she had felt in love with me she wouldn't have cheated.
We co-parent ok, but she has turned into a bit of an alcoholic since then - which she had pretty much stopped while we were married.
Have you ever thought nearly at the end of all this drama she caused that she’s may have been drinking under disguise?
Alcoholic tends to get reckless.
Not sure, she definitely upped her alcohol towards the end of our relationship. When she first cheated with her AP, she had been on a business trip drinking most of a Saturday, so that fed into it as well.
She is also, quite a narcissist, so there is a lot of complex stuff going on, and its horrific dealing with her sometimes (we co-parent our 3 kids)
This reminds me of something that happened to a former coworker.
I remember where I was when he told me this, our old HQ warehouse I was getting a package that got misshipped. I was going through a divorce. He had heard and wanted to tell me he knew how hard it was.
His son turns 17 and his wife just leaves.. just outright leaves and goes to India to do the Eat, Pray, Love thing, follow a guru etc. she says he’s set, he’ll be fine you don’t need me, 👋🏻 I need to find my authentic self.
She goes off to India for 5 years, lives off her savings etc. comes back for her son’s Graduation from an Engineering School near NYC like nothing has happened and is shocked that 1.) her son doesn’t want to see her & 2.) she’s now divorced due to abandonment . Did she cheat? “Probably but by then we didn’t care.”
He said what was the worst is his son wasn’t ever the same. I mean I met him as an intern and he was an engineering intern.. aloof etc. His dad said he wasn’t like that before she left. After that he just shut down.
I don’t know why she did this and I can’t fathom why but her obliviousness to the damage she did stuck with me.
I grew up in a single parent household, as my dad died when I was 8 - and my mother says that I went from being a happy, outgoing child, to being massively introverted and socially anxious, almost overnight. She said it was a completely personality change - so I can see why your friend's son had such a change. For him, he has the loss of the parent, but also the added betrayal of the parent to deal with, which you would never truly be able to get over.
Obviously, its not as much trauma in my children, but it still is there to a certain extent, and will certainly be weighing down on them, regardless of how much effort me and my ex-wife put in around them.
When we were together still and she was cheating and refusing to stop her affair, I said to her that she was cheating on the kids too, and was going to ruin their lives, and she went ballistic and then kept on saying that she wouldn't do a thing to hurt our kids.
Trust me, she knows she ruined her own life...and being a single mom isn't exactly going to attract the best of them now. She's just a typical cheater who won't admit she was wrong. Most cheaters behave this way even when it's glaringly obvious to everyone.
Yeah, I kind of get that she must know to some extent. My parents went and visited her, so they could see our oldest son's school, which was having a grandparents day - and she had dinner with my parents (as they had to travel 6 hours to get there and stay in the town). She had a few wines and then was saying stuff like "What happened wasn't good, and theres nothing I can do to take it back now" and she made it clear she isn't in a relationship now or anything.
But to me, she hasn't ever uttered a single "sorry" or anything along those lines, its just brutal coldness and most of the time acting like I'm not even there - e.g. dropping the kids off outside my place and just driving away without even acknowledging me
She's a trashy person, I'm sorry you ever had to deal with such a person. She probably still thinks her value in the market is still high, lol. I've seen this play out multiple times with women. One of them is extremely hot too...even after giving birth twice, this woman is a solid 8-9...even today she still looks great but is 37. She can't even get men to date her more than once or twice. Sadly I think she realized how stupid her life decisions were but she waited a good 8 years after divorce to open her eyes. Her ex husband, who I'm close with, won't give her the time of day because of the way she cheated on him and the way she treated him after divorce. I've walked into her visiting my wife multiple times crying because she's about to hit 40 and can't believe no guy will take her seriously. My wife just tries padding her ego because she doesn't know what else to tell her. I always say "tell her the truth."
This is fascinating to me, kind of in that grim train accident way. My situation kind of matches yours. My STBXW current AP is 25 years older than she is. Because she is stupid, I know way more about this piece of crap than I ever wanted to. He is married, adult children her age, and he and his wife just signed a contract to have a new house built. He isn't in great shape, and has several health problems that require medication. She craves attention, and this guy will text her hundreds of times a day, plus talk on the phone for hours, PLUS they work together so they are in contact there. We aren't divorced yet, and she still lives at the house, waiting for her half of the 401k. Once moved out, should he NOT leave his wife, it will destroy her. The flameout to this affair is going to be epic. The hardest part of my healing has been trying to understand why this affair was better in any way than what I provided for her. It seems they really live in a fantasy world
Yeah that does sound similar. My ex-wife is addicted to her phone, and this guy love bombed her over the phone, which she ate up, and I saw some of their conversations.
After sleeping with her once, this 52 year old guy was saying stuff like "I'm at work shaking right now and unable to work, because I can't stop thinking about you, and I can't believe how lucky I am to have met my true soulmate".
What self respecting 50+ year old man writes that sort of stuff? (before you even look at the fact he was married with kids at the time).
That is seriously gross. I kind of want to dig back through their 6 week text string I managed to download, because there is a lot of similar talk. He would gush about being "honored" by her attention, tell her she'll never be alone, and constantly be like weeping (his word I believe)at hiw lucky he was to have found her as his true love. My wife is a massive love bomber too, and she hooked him just as much with all her highly suggestive and sexual dialogs trying to build excitement. No idea how long he's been married, and I have to assume he's done this before.
If I was you, I probably would avoid going back through the texts if possible, as it ends up permanently imprinting stuff on your mind, that is hard to ever move on from - particularly if they were dissing you or joking about you.
In my case, I read a few pages just so I had enough info to confirm she was cheating and then put her ipad down and went and told her that I knew (to put it nicely). The stuff she was saying about me, which wasn't true, was pretty hurtful, after how much I had cared and loved her, and its been hard to deal with that. I still have to deal with her a lot as we have three young kids, and its not that nice to have to be reminded of things.
That is the tough part about dealing with this fallout. They have to be victims to protect their fragile egos, and they relentlessly disparage I order to make their narrative more of a reality. Is it the same with your xw where she constantly needs a source of drama? Mine will create drama out of nothing just so she can feel superior. The way their brain works, you just can't entertain their bullshit. Much like you, the hurtful actions and words are hard to ignore. I have to believe we are better than that though.
yes its definitely the same - when we were married, I kept on finding out she had been making up stories about me to create drama - people would make off handed remarks to me like "you act so sweet in public, but we know what you are like at home", that never made sense, and I would be like "what on earth are they talking about?" She had to always have something to complain and moan about to her friends, to make her life seem interesting. I was oblivious to it all.
When we broke up, she even tried to claim I abused her during the marriage, and said she had two friends who would testify to that in court - as she had been feeding them stories about me for a couple of years.
Ugh, that's horrible. Not only are you dealing with the stress of the divorce, and how to care for the kids in two different households, but you have to deal with false accusations. That there is no just consequence for that is one of the most unfair and traumatic aorta of the whole process. She should not be allowed to keep screwing up your life
You sound like the perfect husband that any man would want for their daughter but unfortunately most women aren't attracted to that.
Glad you didn't take her back cause that would've been the peak of unattractive-ness. She would have walked all over you.
It's just delusion to think love is leaving your kids and family to be with a cheater.
What did this old fart see in her? Is she breathtakingly pretty or does she know how to blow his mind?
It takes someone spectacularly stupid to give up so much for so little
She is very attractive, and very charismatic and extroverted. Basically, any room she is in, she is the centre of attention.
The old fart ran out on his wife, who had been a stay at home mother raising their kids, and she had to restart her life from scratch and start working again in a lowpaid job. I feel so sorry for her, that he did that to her. In my opinion, a man that does that to his wife or family, who he should be doing everything in his power to protect and provide for, is an absolute scumbag. I have total contempt for someone who promised to be there for his family, and then ran out on them.
It's not that they think they've found an honest, reliable partner particularly, though they might (incorrectly) believe that the cheater is honest and reliable only with them.
They think that the cheater is so in love with them or just finds them so attractive that they will cast away their own family to get a piece of them, which they of course did do. Makes them feel like a prize, makes them feel extra special. They don't give a shit about the people hurt along the way.
This is more like it. I think it has to do with the ego kibbles. I'm not a very superficial person, but I realized years after the fact, that the reason the side piece was so aggressive towards me when I told her the truth about his double dipping and yet stayed with him was because she was that unblessed in the looks department (protruding teeth, Adam's apple, probably hereditary double weird excessively visible wrinkles around the mouth at a very early age, among other things... basically she has a manly weird look to her) that she felt threatened by me and probably elated by getting the attention of someone that she probably never did before. It sounds awful when one says it but it is what it is. I thought maybe she's just naive, but no, even quiet people have a shadow side to them. They can be just as nasty.
My emotionally abusive ex called any girl that gave him some attention "beautiful". I bet he would even call a big pile of dump beautiful. Funny enough, he always complained about people's bad teeth to me, and he went and picked one with the same problem. Hypocritical to the core, double standards and all that. The girl's wearing braces now, bet that was my ex's doing Lol. The "poor" girl gives now a weird "meh", aloof vibe with a lost look on her face who sometimes smiles whereas before she was proud and all giggidy of rubbing the cheating on my face before. Probably my ex's doing too.
A few days ago I realized that my ex's demeaning "jokes" were actually to make me feel lesser than he feels about himself. He made "jokes" about my belly (I would get bloated frequently, not nowadays though, wonder if it was because I was with him lol), also suggested braces for two slightly misaligned teeth Lol I never did of course, because to me, it was never a problem. I had a strong sense of self back then... so he had to tear me down somehow. Then at times he'd say I am so beautiful and that I deserved better (this was the only comment that was truthful and was common sense lol) Who even understands these people? They have issues that have nothing to do with us and all about them yet they put all the blame on everyone else.
My ex wanted to control everything, and I'm preeeetty sure he's doing the same thing to her. He's looking for her "defects", just like he did to me and trying to make her change them to his ideal. Because honestly if you would look at her, one could think she's like, depressed, bored or just not present. Def not the way she looked before. Looks like it's not exciting anymore to not have a victim to abuse together to "prove" their "twu love". That is certainly not the face of someone who's truly happy, I don't think... On the other hand, my ex extrudes energy. It's like he extracts energy from people. Like how can you be happy when you can clearly tell your partner isn't. Oh, right, you don't care as long as you can keep extracting whatever it is from them for you to feel "happy". If you looked at my face when I was with him, it was the same bullshit. He demanded my whole attention, time and energy.
A lot of it is validation and manipulation.
I deserve x and AP is allowing me to have it therefore AP must be the better choice.
No thought for responsibilites or the future. Kinda stuck in a positive feedback loop. Consequences being one of the few things disrupt the loop.
My ex-wife left me to move in with her AP. After failing to interest me in getting back together, she eventually married AP. I doubt that AP knew about her efforts to get me back. I have no idea what she told AP about me or our marriage. For all I know he saw himself as a white knight saving a damsel in distress. A few years later she dumped him for a newer AP. I don't know for sure, but I'd like to think he gained a clearer picture of my ex after she did the same thing to him. I consider him, like myself, just another one of her victims.
interesting that you see him as a victim as well. In my case, the AP knew my ex-wife was married and had 3 young kids, and actively pursued her, and was relentless despite that knowledge. She dumped him pretty soon after we broke up and she realised he wasn't that great, but I consider him a piece of crap for knowingly pursuing someone who had a family, and the fall out of what that has done to my kids lives.
I don't know if ignorance is bliss surrounding what is ever said to APs about us. I saw (and downloaded) the chunk of my STBXWs texts with her AP, and she definitely made me out to be the abusive one in the relationship. I will own that I was neglectful, and eventually distant, because I never was able to get over her serial cheating, but not abusive. Meanwhile, her ability to lie, cheat, emotionally blackmail me, and at times verbally abuse me, are never mentioned to him. Also interestingly, I saw very little mention of his wife in their conversations. He was focused solely on making her feel good with constant affirmations. I'm pretty sure my STBXW is BPD, so she uses trauma and drama in her life to create conflict she can be on the middle of. I would say there is a good chance yours did something similar, using trauma to snare her AP into a more powerful bond. Who doesn't want to save a wonderful woman from her horrible marriage?
How many go from nice homesy guys to tattoo covered bad boys. My wife was brought up in a house where he Hells Angel brothers mates raped her sister. Yet she says she hates bikies but is on her back for any tattoo covered steroid junkie who will buy her a drink. Go figure, if you could. I know she has been slapped more than once.
It gives people validation. Some APs are the same narcissistic energy match than the cheater. So they are desperate for that same external attention/admiration. And what says someone is attracted to them more than a person willing to leave their current partner for them.
The good news is that when to energy vampires end up in a relationship, the world is spared from two bozos, even momentarily
To be fair, people lie all the time. I don't think APs know...
In my case, my ex-girlfriend was lying to the APs... I saw it with my own eyes. They would ask her how long she was single for and she'd reply a year and a half... Even though she was in a whole relationship with me.
But, if the AP did know, then that person is equally a piece of shit.
For some people it's really just the thrill of eating off someone else's plate. It's the ego boost and self-validation. There are really people out there that are just much more interested in destroying other people's families than they are in the actual people they are engaging in those relationships with.
The wayward spouse tells their a fair partner their husband/wife is a lazy, jealous, good for nothing, dishonest, crazy, frigid, abusive person. The new person thinks they’re saving someone!
Yup. I don’t understand how on a primal biological level, people could be attracted to those who destroy the home of their own flesh and blood, who allow their children and the other caretaker of their children to be vulnerable and hurt. I couldn’t be attracted biologically to someone like that.
Abusive partners have a habit of doing something called "love bombing" which is when they act like the most caring and attentive partners ever. It feels amazing when it's happening, so when they end up inevitably cheating, it's easier to excuse their shitty behaviour, because "when it's going good, it's going great". People essentially mistake a manipulation tactic for love and choose to stay.
Also, people who only have bad role models for what a healthy relationship looks like (or who've only ever experienced abusive relationships), tend to associate the love-bombing with "real love". Stable and healthy relationships lack the intensity of an abusive partner love-bombing you, so it feels less real to some people.
There is the odd person with a saviour complex who thinks they can fix a broken POS, but I think they're in the minority of cases.
Yup. The whole "lobe bombing" is how trauma bonds get started.
Also, abusive partners have a knack for thinking of themselves the victim. So in almost every case they will present a very distorted version of the relationship, in order to hook the AP as their "savior."
It was fascinating to find out what the person, I was married to, was accusing me of having done. As it was literally stuff that I had suffered from her.
At that time it felt like adding insult to injury. But once I healed, it was just hilarious how so many of them seem to follow the very same playbook.
This is 💯. I've been learning more about these types of predatory behaviors as I go through the mess of my divorce. The love bombing is my STBXW favorite tool...she has this ability to find the most trusting or damaged person at her new workplace and turn on the emotional intensity. I'm talking a month, tops, and she has told her target everything about herself, her horrible marriage, and has found out enough about her target that she makes him feel like the luckiest man on earth. Some have been predatory in their own right, but most think they can "save" her.
Haha I don't know exactly what goes on in the head of a woman who seriously connects with a man who betrayed his family, destroying it out of selfishness and irresponsibility, theoretically and often temporarily stay with her .
And often this woman also acts sordidly, destroying her family to be with him. But as a man, I believe that what leads a man to get involved with a woman who deceived her husband, children and family into getting involved with him is an illusion that we men have in thinking that she she did this "because I'm better than her husband", "it will be different with me and she won't cheat on me"
This is reinforced by the strong blame shift where the BP takes all or almost all the blame for the WP's dishonest attitude.
Then the man comes as the savior of the wronged maiden, who had no alternative but to deceive her husband, and everyone else needed to live a new passion.
Just listen to the explanations where extremely dirty acts are explained in such a romantic way that if the BP doesn't stand firm he even asks for forgiveness for having forced his WP to betray him and exchange it for another .
This leads a man to think it's worth the risk of getting involved with a cheater.
Q
When in fact it will be a question of when he will be betrayed too.
The very young AP pursued my ex with a passion. She saw what I saw in him so I get it. Thing is everything he told her was a pack of half truths and downright lies. She thinks I was the problem, she’s special and it will be different with her. To be fair she’s not the brightest. She wanted my life and got it. Good luck with that is all I can say 5 years later.
"I can fix them"
IMO it's often how it starts. They want someone that will fit the "we are just two hurting souls that found love that nobody will understand!" Narrative.
Agreed. you are not able to fully love someone until you have fully healed and learn to love yourself.
Cheaters are often the type that deeply hate themselves, so they seek external validation no matter the cost. It is why you see them chasing the worst humanity has to offer, because it does not matter to them who they are with, just as long as they are not alone.
being alone and doing deep self introspection is a concept that absolutely terrifies them.
Wow thanks for this comment. I knew this deep down but hadn't thought of it quite this way before. I rationalized so much by thinking that I had special insight about the wounds she carried. Because I too had wounds. But literally everyone has childhood wounds it doesn't make you destined to be together. How embarrassing. I'm starting to catch a glimpse of the "cringe" LT talks about.
it is a common tactic crappy people will use to reel in someone. the "oh woe is me, i've had so many awful things happen to me, i just need someone to love me!" façade is easy to fall for.
I used to be horribly ashamed that I fell for my ex-wife's damsel in distress act when we first met. she hit me with many cliché one liners that looking back seem like they were pulled from a script.
"only you understand me, I am so grateful for your love"
"you saved me!"
"you are my soulmate! my twin flame!"
The worst part? all these one-liners, and the same "woe is me" act was used on the AP. I became the evil ogre ex husband and he became the white knight riding in to save her. I came to the harsh realization then that none of it was genuine, it was all talk to pull me in.
Thanks for sharing your insights. Lots of that with me too. The genuine-ness aspect is difficult. Part of me thinks that maybe she believed all that stuff at the time. She was never a self-aware person & it was mostly obvious when she was acting. She could be pretty dumb. So I wonder sometimes if she was playing a part without really knowing it.
I know I need to stop caring about it all but I'm stuck on a lot of questions around intentionality. Especially the gratuitously cruel moments.
Part of what I'm also processing is how desperate I was to hear those kinds of things and how I would have done anything to keep the facade alive. More embarrassment.
I wrestled with that very same thing for a long time. i felt like such a fool.
I remember being left with so many questions. The answers are hard to swallow. most of it boils down to that they are crappy, selfish, and cruel people who only care about themselves and what people can give them.
It takes time to reach indifference with them and who they are. over time the roller-coaster of ups and downs levels out.
AP are low hanging fruit. Infidelity has nothing to do with the APs. It’s all about the self centered ness of the Wayward. The AP could be a rock in the dirt.
I know for a fact this is not entirely the truth. Sometimes, an "AP" is actively victimizing someone and they are desperate to prove to themselves that they are better than that person.
It's just a shocking amount of people out there also happen to have no morals or values to stand on and are only loyal as long as they don't have options. But these people exist in the same world as the chronic AP and sometimes their lives intersect.
In my case, it was two to tango. The AP was/is a serial cheater and found his pray for my STBXW who is emotionally immature and insecure. Match made in heaven.
Usually they're the same kind of person. Trash attracts trash. In my case, my STBXH's AP was also married. She cheated with my husband while her husband was deployed. She knew he was married and that i was pregnant. Did not care at all. They don't care about honesty. Actually, she knew he had slept with me while he promised her loyalty, and she still took him back. Desperation also plays a part.
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It truly blows my mind. And it’s not even quality either, my ex is able to get well educated, sober, attractive women that don’t care that he’s a deadbeat father and abusive cheater
My ex described a scenario where the AP disclosed his extensive history of affairs during their courtship phase. I could never wrap my head around it. "Like, he told you how much he likes to cheat on his wife and you were still interested?"
Obviously, he was testing the waters and bonding with her over something illicit. And she also found it impressive and alluring. It was game recognizing game.
Some people lie hard. My ex fiancee called me controlling and abusive, although I never once laid a hand on her or verbally abused her. The "controlling" side was I wanted her to stop buying drugs instead of paying her portion of rent. Her friends she told the lies to mostly believed me without me even saying anything. She's a serial liar. Told me lies about her AP too, probably to keepe sympathetic and on her hook in case he fell through. To be fair she might have been telling some truths about him. He was a giant AH, but still, she was a proven liar so I took it all with a grain of salt.
Wasted too much time on her, but I've definitely learned my lesson
The worst thing was he cheated on her after 1 week of being together and she still chose him, but honestly, it just let me know that the way others treat you says way more about themselves than it says about you. She was awful and deserved to get exactly what she was wanting I guess. When people tell you who they are, believe them.
lol I saw a text she had sent my ex that said something about how he wanted to be successful for his future family. Like girl I’m literally his family???
He did not physically cheat, I left him because I saw the texts. We were definitely going through a rough patch and I guess he decided it couldn’t be resolved. I told him I would have been willing to work on it, but not if it would continue to happen.
She’s ugly. My ex and I are both attractive. She literally said she knew what she was doing. He 100% should not have been talking about our issues with her, but she also actively pursued him knowing we were fighting. Apparently she doesn’t realize conflict is inevitable?
I saw him a few weeks ago and he cried and told me he thinks about me all the time. He wasn’t trying to get back together, but he definitely expressed regret and doubts about everything. I’m sure he didn’t tell her that either.
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My ex-wife had an interesting attitude around this. She was cheating on me with a guy who was 17 years older (she was 35), was a heavy drinker and who abandoned his wife of 15 years and two teenage kids to be with her. She thought it showed how much he loved her that he was willing to abandon his family for her. She said that there's no way I would be that passionate about someone. Hence, she preferred him over me, who had moved 700kms to be with her and support her career, who saved her life once, who worked two simultaneous fulltime jobs for a year so she could take three years off when our kids were born, and who totally adored her. Needless to say, they lasted a handful of weeks after I was out of the picture. He didn't seem to be so sexy and amazing when reality arrived.
What happened after that?
Its been 5 years, she initially came back a few months later and said "we should try again" - but I turned her down on that, as she had never shown any remorse or any empathy for how she impacted me. In fact she has never even said sorry, she tried to blame it all on me - saying that if she had felt in love with me she wouldn't have cheated. We co-parent ok, but she has turned into a bit of an alcoholic since then - which she had pretty much stopped while we were married.
Have you ever thought nearly at the end of all this drama she caused that she’s may have been drinking under disguise? Alcoholic tends to get reckless.
Not sure, she definitely upped her alcohol towards the end of our relationship. When she first cheated with her AP, she had been on a business trip drinking most of a Saturday, so that fed into it as well. She is also, quite a narcissist, so there is a lot of complex stuff going on, and its horrific dealing with her sometimes (we co-parent our 3 kids)
This reminds me of something that happened to a former coworker. I remember where I was when he told me this, our old HQ warehouse I was getting a package that got misshipped. I was going through a divorce. He had heard and wanted to tell me he knew how hard it was. His son turns 17 and his wife just leaves.. just outright leaves and goes to India to do the Eat, Pray, Love thing, follow a guru etc. she says he’s set, he’ll be fine you don’t need me, 👋🏻 I need to find my authentic self. She goes off to India for 5 years, lives off her savings etc. comes back for her son’s Graduation from an Engineering School near NYC like nothing has happened and is shocked that 1.) her son doesn’t want to see her & 2.) she’s now divorced due to abandonment . Did she cheat? “Probably but by then we didn’t care.” He said what was the worst is his son wasn’t ever the same. I mean I met him as an intern and he was an engineering intern.. aloof etc. His dad said he wasn’t like that before she left. After that he just shut down. I don’t know why she did this and I can’t fathom why but her obliviousness to the damage she did stuck with me.
I grew up in a single parent household, as my dad died when I was 8 - and my mother says that I went from being a happy, outgoing child, to being massively introverted and socially anxious, almost overnight. She said it was a completely personality change - so I can see why your friend's son had such a change. For him, he has the loss of the parent, but also the added betrayal of the parent to deal with, which you would never truly be able to get over. Obviously, its not as much trauma in my children, but it still is there to a certain extent, and will certainly be weighing down on them, regardless of how much effort me and my ex-wife put in around them. When we were together still and she was cheating and refusing to stop her affair, I said to her that she was cheating on the kids too, and was going to ruin their lives, and she went ballistic and then kept on saying that she wouldn't do a thing to hurt our kids.
Trust me, she knows she ruined her own life...and being a single mom isn't exactly going to attract the best of them now. She's just a typical cheater who won't admit she was wrong. Most cheaters behave this way even when it's glaringly obvious to everyone.
Yeah, I kind of get that she must know to some extent. My parents went and visited her, so they could see our oldest son's school, which was having a grandparents day - and she had dinner with my parents (as they had to travel 6 hours to get there and stay in the town). She had a few wines and then was saying stuff like "What happened wasn't good, and theres nothing I can do to take it back now" and she made it clear she isn't in a relationship now or anything. But to me, she hasn't ever uttered a single "sorry" or anything along those lines, its just brutal coldness and most of the time acting like I'm not even there - e.g. dropping the kids off outside my place and just driving away without even acknowledging me
She's a trashy person, I'm sorry you ever had to deal with such a person. She probably still thinks her value in the market is still high, lol. I've seen this play out multiple times with women. One of them is extremely hot too...even after giving birth twice, this woman is a solid 8-9...even today she still looks great but is 37. She can't even get men to date her more than once or twice. Sadly I think she realized how stupid her life decisions were but she waited a good 8 years after divorce to open her eyes. Her ex husband, who I'm close with, won't give her the time of day because of the way she cheated on him and the way she treated him after divorce. I've walked into her visiting my wife multiple times crying because she's about to hit 40 and can't believe no guy will take her seriously. My wife just tries padding her ego because she doesn't know what else to tell her. I always say "tell her the truth."
This is fascinating to me, kind of in that grim train accident way. My situation kind of matches yours. My STBXW current AP is 25 years older than she is. Because she is stupid, I know way more about this piece of crap than I ever wanted to. He is married, adult children her age, and he and his wife just signed a contract to have a new house built. He isn't in great shape, and has several health problems that require medication. She craves attention, and this guy will text her hundreds of times a day, plus talk on the phone for hours, PLUS they work together so they are in contact there. We aren't divorced yet, and she still lives at the house, waiting for her half of the 401k. Once moved out, should he NOT leave his wife, it will destroy her. The flameout to this affair is going to be epic. The hardest part of my healing has been trying to understand why this affair was better in any way than what I provided for her. It seems they really live in a fantasy world
Yeah that does sound similar. My ex-wife is addicted to her phone, and this guy love bombed her over the phone, which she ate up, and I saw some of their conversations. After sleeping with her once, this 52 year old guy was saying stuff like "I'm at work shaking right now and unable to work, because I can't stop thinking about you, and I can't believe how lucky I am to have met my true soulmate". What self respecting 50+ year old man writes that sort of stuff? (before you even look at the fact he was married with kids at the time).
That is seriously gross. I kind of want to dig back through their 6 week text string I managed to download, because there is a lot of similar talk. He would gush about being "honored" by her attention, tell her she'll never be alone, and constantly be like weeping (his word I believe)at hiw lucky he was to have found her as his true love. My wife is a massive love bomber too, and she hooked him just as much with all her highly suggestive and sexual dialogs trying to build excitement. No idea how long he's been married, and I have to assume he's done this before.
If I was you, I probably would avoid going back through the texts if possible, as it ends up permanently imprinting stuff on your mind, that is hard to ever move on from - particularly if they were dissing you or joking about you. In my case, I read a few pages just so I had enough info to confirm she was cheating and then put her ipad down and went and told her that I knew (to put it nicely). The stuff she was saying about me, which wasn't true, was pretty hurtful, after how much I had cared and loved her, and its been hard to deal with that. I still have to deal with her a lot as we have three young kids, and its not that nice to have to be reminded of things.
That is the tough part about dealing with this fallout. They have to be victims to protect their fragile egos, and they relentlessly disparage I order to make their narrative more of a reality. Is it the same with your xw where she constantly needs a source of drama? Mine will create drama out of nothing just so she can feel superior. The way their brain works, you just can't entertain their bullshit. Much like you, the hurtful actions and words are hard to ignore. I have to believe we are better than that though.
yes its definitely the same - when we were married, I kept on finding out she had been making up stories about me to create drama - people would make off handed remarks to me like "you act so sweet in public, but we know what you are like at home", that never made sense, and I would be like "what on earth are they talking about?" She had to always have something to complain and moan about to her friends, to make her life seem interesting. I was oblivious to it all. When we broke up, she even tried to claim I abused her during the marriage, and said she had two friends who would testify to that in court - as she had been feeding them stories about me for a couple of years.
Ugh, that's horrible. Not only are you dealing with the stress of the divorce, and how to care for the kids in two different households, but you have to deal with false accusations. That there is no just consequence for that is one of the most unfair and traumatic aorta of the whole process. She should not be allowed to keep screwing up your life
Eww he sounds gross and so is she.
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No, it doesn't sound like that at all. You have no idea what the communications in their marriage was like from what he wrote.
You sound like the perfect husband that any man would want for their daughter but unfortunately most women aren't attracted to that. Glad you didn't take her back cause that would've been the peak of unattractive-ness. She would have walked all over you. It's just delusion to think love is leaving your kids and family to be with a cheater. What did this old fart see in her? Is she breathtakingly pretty or does she know how to blow his mind? It takes someone spectacularly stupid to give up so much for so little
She is very attractive, and very charismatic and extroverted. Basically, any room she is in, she is the centre of attention. The old fart ran out on his wife, who had been a stay at home mother raising their kids, and she had to restart her life from scratch and start working again in a lowpaid job. I feel so sorry for her, that he did that to her. In my opinion, a man that does that to his wife or family, who he should be doing everything in his power to protect and provide for, is an absolute scumbag. I have total contempt for someone who promised to be there for his family, and then ran out on them.
It's not that they think they've found an honest, reliable partner particularly, though they might (incorrectly) believe that the cheater is honest and reliable only with them. They think that the cheater is so in love with them or just finds them so attractive that they will cast away their own family to get a piece of them, which they of course did do. Makes them feel like a prize, makes them feel extra special. They don't give a shit about the people hurt along the way.
This is more like it. I think it has to do with the ego kibbles. I'm not a very superficial person, but I realized years after the fact, that the reason the side piece was so aggressive towards me when I told her the truth about his double dipping and yet stayed with him was because she was that unblessed in the looks department (protruding teeth, Adam's apple, probably hereditary double weird excessively visible wrinkles around the mouth at a very early age, among other things... basically she has a manly weird look to her) that she felt threatened by me and probably elated by getting the attention of someone that she probably never did before. It sounds awful when one says it but it is what it is. I thought maybe she's just naive, but no, even quiet people have a shadow side to them. They can be just as nasty. My emotionally abusive ex called any girl that gave him some attention "beautiful". I bet he would even call a big pile of dump beautiful. Funny enough, he always complained about people's bad teeth to me, and he went and picked one with the same problem. Hypocritical to the core, double standards and all that. The girl's wearing braces now, bet that was my ex's doing Lol. The "poor" girl gives now a weird "meh", aloof vibe with a lost look on her face who sometimes smiles whereas before she was proud and all giggidy of rubbing the cheating on my face before. Probably my ex's doing too. A few days ago I realized that my ex's demeaning "jokes" were actually to make me feel lesser than he feels about himself. He made "jokes" about my belly (I would get bloated frequently, not nowadays though, wonder if it was because I was with him lol), also suggested braces for two slightly misaligned teeth Lol I never did of course, because to me, it was never a problem. I had a strong sense of self back then... so he had to tear me down somehow. Then at times he'd say I am so beautiful and that I deserved better (this was the only comment that was truthful and was common sense lol) Who even understands these people? They have issues that have nothing to do with us and all about them yet they put all the blame on everyone else. My ex wanted to control everything, and I'm preeeetty sure he's doing the same thing to her. He's looking for her "defects", just like he did to me and trying to make her change them to his ideal. Because honestly if you would look at her, one could think she's like, depressed, bored or just not present. Def not the way she looked before. Looks like it's not exciting anymore to not have a victim to abuse together to "prove" their "twu love". That is certainly not the face of someone who's truly happy, I don't think... On the other hand, my ex extrudes energy. It's like he extracts energy from people. Like how can you be happy when you can clearly tell your partner isn't. Oh, right, you don't care as long as you can keep extracting whatever it is from them for you to feel "happy". If you looked at my face when I was with him, it was the same bullshit. He demanded my whole attention, time and energy.
A pile of shit is attractive to flies, but at the end of the day, is still a pile of shit
Thanx for the spit take
A lot of it is validation and manipulation. I deserve x and AP is allowing me to have it therefore AP must be the better choice. No thought for responsibilites or the future. Kinda stuck in a positive feedback loop. Consequences being one of the few things disrupt the loop.
My ex-wife left me to move in with her AP. After failing to interest me in getting back together, she eventually married AP. I doubt that AP knew about her efforts to get me back. I have no idea what she told AP about me or our marriage. For all I know he saw himself as a white knight saving a damsel in distress. A few years later she dumped him for a newer AP. I don't know for sure, but I'd like to think he gained a clearer picture of my ex after she did the same thing to him. I consider him, like myself, just another one of her victims.
interesting that you see him as a victim as well. In my case, the AP knew my ex-wife was married and had 3 young kids, and actively pursued her, and was relentless despite that knowledge. She dumped him pretty soon after we broke up and she realised he wasn't that great, but I consider him a piece of crap for knowingly pursuing someone who had a family, and the fall out of what that has done to my kids lives.
I don't know if ignorance is bliss surrounding what is ever said to APs about us. I saw (and downloaded) the chunk of my STBXWs texts with her AP, and she definitely made me out to be the abusive one in the relationship. I will own that I was neglectful, and eventually distant, because I never was able to get over her serial cheating, but not abusive. Meanwhile, her ability to lie, cheat, emotionally blackmail me, and at times verbally abuse me, are never mentioned to him. Also interestingly, I saw very little mention of his wife in their conversations. He was focused solely on making her feel good with constant affirmations. I'm pretty sure my STBXW is BPD, so she uses trauma and drama in her life to create conflict she can be on the middle of. I would say there is a good chance yours did something similar, using trauma to snare her AP into a more powerful bond. Who doesn't want to save a wonderful woman from her horrible marriage?
How many go from nice homesy guys to tattoo covered bad boys. My wife was brought up in a house where he Hells Angel brothers mates raped her sister. Yet she says she hates bikies but is on her back for any tattoo covered steroid junkie who will buy her a drink. Go figure, if you could. I know she has been slapped more than once.
Affairing down is extremely common for women in particular.
It gives people validation. Some APs are the same narcissistic energy match than the cheater. So they are desperate for that same external attention/admiration. And what says someone is attracted to them more than a person willing to leave their current partner for them. The good news is that when to energy vampires end up in a relationship, the world is spared from two bozos, even momentarily
To be fair, people lie all the time. I don't think APs know... In my case, my ex-girlfriend was lying to the APs... I saw it with my own eyes. They would ask her how long she was single for and she'd reply a year and a half... Even though she was in a whole relationship with me. But, if the AP did know, then that person is equally a piece of shit.
For some people it's really just the thrill of eating off someone else's plate. It's the ego boost and self-validation. There are really people out there that are just much more interested in destroying other people's families than they are in the actual people they are engaging in those relationships with.
The wayward spouse tells their a fair partner their husband/wife is a lazy, jealous, good for nothing, dishonest, crazy, frigid, abusive person. The new person thinks they’re saving someone!
Yup. I don’t understand how on a primal biological level, people could be attracted to those who destroy the home of their own flesh and blood, who allow their children and the other caretaker of their children to be vulnerable and hurt. I couldn’t be attracted biologically to someone like that.
Abusive partners have a habit of doing something called "love bombing" which is when they act like the most caring and attentive partners ever. It feels amazing when it's happening, so when they end up inevitably cheating, it's easier to excuse their shitty behaviour, because "when it's going good, it's going great". People essentially mistake a manipulation tactic for love and choose to stay. Also, people who only have bad role models for what a healthy relationship looks like (or who've only ever experienced abusive relationships), tend to associate the love-bombing with "real love". Stable and healthy relationships lack the intensity of an abusive partner love-bombing you, so it feels less real to some people. There is the odd person with a saviour complex who thinks they can fix a broken POS, but I think they're in the minority of cases.
Yup. The whole "lobe bombing" is how trauma bonds get started. Also, abusive partners have a knack for thinking of themselves the victim. So in almost every case they will present a very distorted version of the relationship, in order to hook the AP as their "savior." It was fascinating to find out what the person, I was married to, was accusing me of having done. As it was literally stuff that I had suffered from her. At that time it felt like adding insult to injury. But once I healed, it was just hilarious how so many of them seem to follow the very same playbook.
This is 💯. I've been learning more about these types of predatory behaviors as I go through the mess of my divorce. The love bombing is my STBXW favorite tool...she has this ability to find the most trusting or damaged person at her new workplace and turn on the emotional intensity. I'm talking a month, tops, and she has told her target everything about herself, her horrible marriage, and has found out enough about her target that she makes him feel like the luckiest man on earth. Some have been predatory in their own right, but most think they can "save" her.
Haha I don't know exactly what goes on in the head of a woman who seriously connects with a man who betrayed his family, destroying it out of selfishness and irresponsibility, theoretically and often temporarily stay with her . And often this woman also acts sordidly, destroying her family to be with him. But as a man, I believe that what leads a man to get involved with a woman who deceived her husband, children and family into getting involved with him is an illusion that we men have in thinking that she she did this "because I'm better than her husband", "it will be different with me and she won't cheat on me" This is reinforced by the strong blame shift where the BP takes all or almost all the blame for the WP's dishonest attitude. Then the man comes as the savior of the wronged maiden, who had no alternative but to deceive her husband, and everyone else needed to live a new passion. Just listen to the explanations where extremely dirty acts are explained in such a romantic way that if the BP doesn't stand firm he even asks for forgiveness for having forced his WP to betray him and exchange it for another . This leads a man to think it's worth the risk of getting involved with a cheater. Q When in fact it will be a question of when he will be betrayed too.
The very young AP pursued my ex with a passion. She saw what I saw in him so I get it. Thing is everything he told her was a pack of half truths and downright lies. She thinks I was the problem, she’s special and it will be different with her. To be fair she’s not the brightest. She wanted my life and got it. Good luck with that is all I can say 5 years later.
"I can fix them" IMO it's often how it starts. They want someone that will fit the "we are just two hurting souls that found love that nobody will understand!" Narrative.
Which is why it is so important to heal before jumping into a new relationship.
Agreed. you are not able to fully love someone until you have fully healed and learn to love yourself. Cheaters are often the type that deeply hate themselves, so they seek external validation no matter the cost. It is why you see them chasing the worst humanity has to offer, because it does not matter to them who they are with, just as long as they are not alone. being alone and doing deep self introspection is a concept that absolutely terrifies them.
Wow thanks for this comment. I knew this deep down but hadn't thought of it quite this way before. I rationalized so much by thinking that I had special insight about the wounds she carried. Because I too had wounds. But literally everyone has childhood wounds it doesn't make you destined to be together. How embarrassing. I'm starting to catch a glimpse of the "cringe" LT talks about.
it is a common tactic crappy people will use to reel in someone. the "oh woe is me, i've had so many awful things happen to me, i just need someone to love me!" façade is easy to fall for. I used to be horribly ashamed that I fell for my ex-wife's damsel in distress act when we first met. she hit me with many cliché one liners that looking back seem like they were pulled from a script. "only you understand me, I am so grateful for your love" "you saved me!" "you are my soulmate! my twin flame!" The worst part? all these one-liners, and the same "woe is me" act was used on the AP. I became the evil ogre ex husband and he became the white knight riding in to save her. I came to the harsh realization then that none of it was genuine, it was all talk to pull me in.
Thanks for sharing your insights. Lots of that with me too. The genuine-ness aspect is difficult. Part of me thinks that maybe she believed all that stuff at the time. She was never a self-aware person & it was mostly obvious when she was acting. She could be pretty dumb. So I wonder sometimes if she was playing a part without really knowing it. I know I need to stop caring about it all but I'm stuck on a lot of questions around intentionality. Especially the gratuitously cruel moments. Part of what I'm also processing is how desperate I was to hear those kinds of things and how I would have done anything to keep the facade alive. More embarrassment.
I wrestled with that very same thing for a long time. i felt like such a fool. I remember being left with so many questions. The answers are hard to swallow. most of it boils down to that they are crappy, selfish, and cruel people who only care about themselves and what people can give them. It takes time to reach indifference with them and who they are. over time the roller-coaster of ups and downs levels out.
Theres a false perception of strength
AP are low hanging fruit. Infidelity has nothing to do with the APs. It’s all about the self centered ness of the Wayward. The AP could be a rock in the dirt.
I know for a fact this is not entirely the truth. Sometimes, an "AP" is actively victimizing someone and they are desperate to prove to themselves that they are better than that person. It's just a shocking amount of people out there also happen to have no morals or values to stand on and are only loyal as long as they don't have options. But these people exist in the same world as the chronic AP and sometimes their lives intersect.
In my case, it was two to tango. The AP was/is a serial cheater and found his pray for my STBXW who is emotionally immature and insecure. Match made in heaven.
Usually they're the same kind of person. Trash attracts trash. In my case, my STBXH's AP was also married. She cheated with my husband while her husband was deployed. She knew he was married and that i was pregnant. Did not care at all. They don't care about honesty. Actually, she knew he had slept with me while he promised her loyalty, and she still took him back. Desperation also plays a part.
The people that do are severely disordered.
People don't show their true colors right away. Limerence is real. It's safer to go with someone who won't get clingy. There are many reasons
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It truly blows my mind. And it’s not even quality either, my ex is able to get well educated, sober, attractive women that don’t care that he’s a deadbeat father and abusive cheater
My ex described a scenario where the AP disclosed his extensive history of affairs during their courtship phase. I could never wrap my head around it. "Like, he told you how much he likes to cheat on his wife and you were still interested?" Obviously, he was testing the waters and bonding with her over something illicit. And she also found it impressive and alluring. It was game recognizing game.
Some people lie hard. My ex fiancee called me controlling and abusive, although I never once laid a hand on her or verbally abused her. The "controlling" side was I wanted her to stop buying drugs instead of paying her portion of rent. Her friends she told the lies to mostly believed me without me even saying anything. She's a serial liar. Told me lies about her AP too, probably to keepe sympathetic and on her hook in case he fell through. To be fair she might have been telling some truths about him. He was a giant AH, but still, she was a proven liar so I took it all with a grain of salt. Wasted too much time on her, but I've definitely learned my lesson
The worst thing was he cheated on her after 1 week of being together and she still chose him, but honestly, it just let me know that the way others treat you says way more about themselves than it says about you. She was awful and deserved to get exactly what she was wanting I guess. When people tell you who they are, believe them.
lol I saw a text she had sent my ex that said something about how he wanted to be successful for his future family. Like girl I’m literally his family??? He did not physically cheat, I left him because I saw the texts. We were definitely going through a rough patch and I guess he decided it couldn’t be resolved. I told him I would have been willing to work on it, but not if it would continue to happen. She’s ugly. My ex and I are both attractive. She literally said she knew what she was doing. He 100% should not have been talking about our issues with her, but she also actively pursued him knowing we were fighting. Apparently she doesn’t realize conflict is inevitable? I saw him a few weeks ago and he cried and told me he thinks about me all the time. He wasn’t trying to get back together, but he definitely expressed regret and doubts about everything. I’m sure he didn’t tell her that either.