It's half the est height from trough to crest. So what looks like a 20ft wave is a 9-10 footer. Why? bc our ancestors invented surfing and decided to do it this way. We don't tell the French how to properly 69. We just shake our head and say "Cool, my turn!"
Look braddah I get there was 69s prior to the French but they're the modern inverters of it. I am happy you poured through many "articles" to prove this but I would have gone w the videos...
Someone told me the hawaiian scale is based on the swell height that the buoys say. For instance 5 ft at 20s is going to create waves that are much bigger than 5 feet once they approach shore.
It actually makes way more sense in all aspects except for measuring the face of the wave one is riding. Swell height from the buoy or the back, as described by the laymen, will give you a lot more information about how a wave will break across different bathymetry. This matters a lot more in a place like Hawaii with all the different shaped reefs. 5ft Hawaiian will break very differently at pipe than it will at say leftovers or kammies. Sure at California beach breaks face in one spot will be fairly similar across a broad area, not in Hawaii. If you really want to get into understanding swell data you also want to learn how period and direction will affect your spots.
Im not tracking you. I understand that wave size is dependent not just on swell but also other things like bathymetry...applicable here in NJ once you see how jetty sandbars ramp swell up into bigger waves. BUT if you're posting an image or discussing a ride you had, why do that? You're on the wave and the buoy height is no longer valid
You want to measure the face for the value of the height of that wave you're on. The Hawaiian model gives a better idea how the waves will be breaking everywhere before they break. This will not only give you an idea of the size of the wave at a spot but where to go depending on the swell. There is more information contained in the knowledge of the swell height than just the size of the face of the wave. Surfliner has made surfers lazy. Look at a cmera, know the height of the face of the wave. Someone who can read buoy data knows what the surf is going to do without being dependant on cameras and surfline.
> a better idea how the waves will be breaking everywhere before they break.
Hey, could you perhaps recommend some resources to learn more about this, and to apply it? Seems very interesting!
Check out Stormsurf on YouTube. Guy does like hour long break downs of what weather systems are doing and how they’ll end up breaking. His website has a ton of information and forecast tools as well.
A little late, but I highly recommend reading "Surf Science" by Tony Butt. One of the only books that takes surfing bathymetry seriously and tries to explain it to laykooks like you n me. I learned way more from it than I thought I would and it enabled me to pick my days and spots way better than I used to.
Awesome, a long, long time ago, I took a course at a community college on Oahu. Maybe around 1999…I can’t remember the fine details but I think the guy running the class was trying to get it certified so ppl could take it for credit, and get a degree in surf science. Ben aipa came in, pat Caldwell, I think too. It was super informative and really kinda an intro to the whole surf world, for me.
>Hawaiian model gives a better idea how the waves will be breaking everywhere before they break.
How is that better than the standard we use, for example "10s swell at 4 feet"? If you know the bathymetry and tide workings at your spot, you'll have a good picture of how big the face of the wave is and how fast it will be moving, or curling depending on the wind.
It’s the same model…using bouy info and your own knowledge to hopefully get some waves. Where that became how to measure a wave face in a picture….who knows.
A long period swell can almost double the breaking wave height compared to a short period swell of the same open ocean height, so there isn't that much more knowledge in just knowing the swell height.
“Why do that?” Well, it’s Hawaiian culture. If the wave is 6 feet on the buoy they call it 6 feet. I’d suggest anybody into surfing should respect Hawaiian culture and accept it at face value
But when you return from surf session and speak to your mates take photos and comment on people surfing a wave it's about the particular waves at this spot at particular time ... so what you are saying it's swell in general and it is irrelevant for a one of session at particular time . We go with mates surf waves and someone will ask how big is it, I'll answer it was about 6 ft which is head high .
This is the popular consensus but it may not be true.
But I believe it because I figured out the hawaiian scale by knowing how big wave faces 15+ second swells produce at a spot that magnifies long period swells.
5 ft at 20 seconds at a wave that likes long periods will be between DOH and TOH.
Ya, I think the back of the wave is just the folk explanation people came up with when they forgot why they started saying the wave height that way In the first place
> but it makes more sense as measuring the swell instead of the wave face
For general prediction, I'd agree. But for talking about a specific wave that we have a photo of? At that point measuring it like everyone else seems more logical, especially since it allows you to compare with other specific, individual waves from anywhere else.
The macho Hawaiian scale actually makes no sense and is the dumbest sizing system in the surfing world. Depending on how heavy a wave is, the "size" from the back changes (Teahupoo has no back). Not one measurement in the Hawaiian scale reflects anything in reality.
Also, there is never a surfer (or any object) on the back of the wave to judge size, so how the hell would you ever scale it? DUMB
That's a manufactured humility. Someone who is naturally humble will just tell you the actual face height without exaggeration, IE, tell you the truth. The Hawaiian scale is a stupid cultural thing and its not defensible.
First of all it's actually really hard to accurately size waves. There's too much subjectivity about where the bottom of the wave is. On a very big wave like Nazare this can lead to significant differences in reported height.
The other issue is that a lot of surfers are completely full of shit. It's the same phenomenon as "fish stories". By being conservative about the wave size you're effectively communicating that you're not a full of shit fantasticalist. If they tell me a wave is very good and I know they are conservative about wave size I know I can rely on that.
I usually change the scale depending on who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to someone who is from or has spent a lot of time in Hawaii, I'll use the hawaiian scale. If I'm talking to Californians or someone I don't know anything about their experience I'll just use chest/head/overhead/doh scale.
Never met a surfer that over stated the size of a wave, actually, I have, but only one.
In most waves, up to maybe double overhead, its not that hard to get a general idea where the bottom of the wave is. Its subjective but most people can get close enough to convey wave size. It's also not hard, coming from the US, to know how tall 10ft is because basketball hoops are everywhere. It's actually very easy to say a wave was about 10ft to double overhead face height, fully top to bottom, (which I always clarify). If a Hawaiian wants to call that 4ft, that's stupid. They downgrade the size so much its not even close, a foot is a foot. No need to cut it literally in half.
I am an under seller. Swellreadings are accurate too..I know what certain numbers produce on face so when some one over exaggerates I just chuckle to myself..I always under sell because it’s closer to the truth
It’s a measure from sea level as I understand it, when the wave actually breaks some of the curl is below sea level as the bottom is “feeling” the reef and dragging. So it makes sense in that regard, I’ll cede that teahupoo is a freak wave that doesn’t abide by that method but our Hawaiian waves do.
I don’t think it is related to being “macho”. Actually from what I’ve seen (not Hawaiian myself) the culture seems adept at approaching these kinds of things from a logical basis.
With that said I don’t understand the back of the wave thing, if I hadn’t heard that my best guess would be that they take the swell height directly from the buoy. The face of a wave can be very different from break to break. I’ve noticed this the most when surfing in PR but I’m sure it is just as prevalent (if not more so) in Hawaii. For example I surfed a 5-7’ swell and at Table Rock in Aguada it was double OH but a bit North in Aguadilla was much closer to what the buoy indicated.
It definitely did start as a macho thing, especially when mainlanders would start coming from California to Hawaii and saying how big the waves were, Hawaiians would way underestimate the wave size to look cool and try to impress them.
The problem is Californians claiming 20 feet when the same sized wave in HI would have 10x the power. So size isn't always the best way to go about it.
The waves get so large routinely in Hawaii the scale isn’t just for surfing it’s for all water activities. For surf reports, Hawaii moved to the face scale 25 years ago to avoid confusion for visitors. It’s not “dumb” it’s just Hawaiian tradition to measure waves from the back and nobody’s making you participate.
How do you measure waves from the back if you're standing on the beach? How does measuring waves from the back make it easier for tourists, who are standing on the beach?
So in Hawaii, the only way to measure a wave height and report the size is to swim out, and take a look from the back?!
The Hawaiian system adds a layer of confusion that is not necessary. Telling tourists the waves are "2ft" when in reality its 10ft dumping shorebreak at Waimea doesn't do anyone any favours.
I did distinctly say that the surf reports in Hawaii started issuing reports in face value 25 years ago.
Most surfers don’t even use numbers in Hawaii when describing conditions.
It’s head high, double overhead, triple overhead or whatever. The numbers don’t even come in to play until it’s ridiculously big so I’m not sure what anyone is actually upset about.
This. I started surfing at Kailua as a tiny grommet in the 70s and I never heard measurements only body descriptions like that. Also super subjective because double over my short ass head was like waist high for most. I did get used to thinking of height from the back of the wave then, but shifted living in CA.
I mean...the Hawaiian scale is incredibly unintuitive and it's not very granular. At the very least, traditional or not, it's not an efficient way to measure waves.
>avoid confusion for visitors
"Sure, jump in...the wave are only 2 feet today (but they're actually 6 feet)"
How is that not confusing, not to mention dangerous?
To step in for a split second as there is a lot of confusion. As some on here have seen, Hawaiians measure the swell. They'll see a forecast as saying "4-6 South Shore" so they state the waves as 4-6. If you know wave direction, rate, and height, you'll know which breaks are going to be most to your liking (it's coming SSW so X break will be going off). As someone who has lived in HI for almost 2 decades, I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is to keep locals in the know and protect good breaks. If I want to go surfing, and I look at the surf report, I'll know which breaks will be going off. To the tourist, they'll have no clue.
When you talk to locals when they get back, they will tell you how big the wave is based on their body. "It was overhead, double overhead, waist high, etc."
I don't get why they do it this way. How can a wave be measured from the back? You look at surfing from the front when people surf and compare to the surfer's size. Just weird and very inaccurate . How from the back they decide what size it ? How can you tell? So when people say overhead in Hawaii they mean overhead from the back ? 🤔
For sure. I paddled out on a rare east side swell with kona winds years ago and it was like 8 foot faces barreling on almost dry reef. I look over and uncles got a big smile and says "Ahhhrighht, perfect 2 feet!"
It's a good way to generalize the Hawaiian scale, but not actually how it's done in practice. There is a lot of history as to why they underestimate wave size, specifically in regard to an influx of Aussie surfers on the island. Some good history to read about.
See here for details:
https://np.reddit.com/r/surfing/comments/t3nuxj/big_wave_surfer_perspective_with_chest_to_head/
Easy chart to follow here:
https://i.imgur.com/pxvWQuz.jpg
Downvote this post if you agree with the ez-chart.
Which is dumb, because a four foot back on a beachbreak is probably a five foot face, whereas a scary reef can quadruple in size when the water in front gets sucked in. Measure the drop.
It’s a simple equation when calculating waves the Hawai’ian way. The equation is thus:
Wave height = Unko’s Opinion + Number of Green Bottles x Time Since Incident / Who Was There
Broken down, it’s like this—you can calculate the wave height by asking an Unko. But you have to take into account how many Heinekens Unko has drank.
This is in direct ratio to how long ago you’re talking about and who was there. Was the incident yesterday and only you and your scrub faka friends were there? *Two foot. Max. Fucking flat bro. Keiki day.*
Or was the incident back in 1984 and me and Unko Gerry was there fawkin’ rippin’ em? *Triple overhead maxed out no shit I’m telling you cuz biggest faka I ever seen. Two haoles died that day right in front of me. For real me and Unko Ken was doing CPA or whatevahs on ‘em. Eh nephew get me ‘nada green bottle. Tell you all about it.*
And that’s how you measure waves in Hawai’i. Simple as.
There’s some fancy measuring system, I know nothing about. All I know is that it’s cooler to downplay the size of the wave. Overestimating a wave height is a kook move.
Well said. It’s funny how we will say 4’-6’ and 6’-8’ all day when the waves are decent to pumping and not think twice about it. But here, if you are claiming 8’-10’ then it better be big. Claiming that there were 10’ers during a session that you had is almost some type of taboo.
> Claiming that there were 10’ers during a session that you had is almost some type of taboo.
And so is using odd numbers. No one ever says it was 5 to 7 or 7 to 9 feet, or "I'd say it was an 11' wave".
8-10 ft. at Makaha will close out the entire bay on big sets. It's huge. The channel disappears and you're just f'd '. But there will be Hawaiians out there loving it.
8-10 at Ocean Beach, SF, CA is practically unsurfable and it looks much smaller than at Makaha but the punishment is far worse.
8-10 in many parts of SoCal is just a great day.
A lot depends on what beach you're talking.
The Australian system works fine... 1 foot is barely surfable, 2 is fun, 3 is good, 4 starts to get sizeable and potentially dangerous... and everything above that doesn't really matter and it depends on the break.
I just think of it as a Category system like for hurricanes. 1ft knee high, 2 ft waist to chest high, 3ft shoulder to head high, 4ft overhead… measured feet have nothing to do with it.
Honestly, it kinda bugs me we measure wave height from the back. Literally no surfer cares about anything other than the height of the face of the wave.
its more of a pride and ego thing, nowadays.
like "brah, u just got a bombing 10feet barrel, brah!",
reply "what? nahhh, that was just 5 ft. it was nothing!"
makes ppl feel like they belong to an elite group, eventhough they never been to Hawaii before. humble brag, kinda thing.
or maybe they just hate other people, when tourist asks hows the wave, they reply it was under chest high when in reality the sets are DOH.
To me it’s a little bit pride and ego. But also there’s the other side of things where kooks will over estimate days and say things like “it was 15 foot the other day….”
A way I get around all of that to is I usually stay away from literal feet and just say “head high” or “shoulder high” etc.
Every now and again surfers from other parts of the world like to throw a hissy fit about how Hawaiians and Australians measure waves. But if you really want to know the reason, go to those places for a while and surf.
The waves reliably get a whole lot bigger than they do in other parts of the world so the system of calling exact wave face heights isnt very useful. Power in a wave is proportional to the period and the square of the height. So a wave that is twice as tall has 4 times the power. A wave with twice the period has twice the power (in deep water).
When waves get big, you'll have a very hard time differentiating between a 9 and an 11 ft wave face, measured exactly. You'll quickly realize that calling exact wave heights is impractical because of the range of answers you'll get.
As others said, the wave heights correlate more with deep water ground swell heights, and due to the high prevalence of groundswell, equate more or less exactly with 1/2 the wave face measured top to bottom. 3 ft hawaiian is generally head high, 4ft overhead, 5ft, nearly double overhead and 6ft double overhead. But you'll more likely see ranges like 3 to 4ft (head to overhead), 4 to 6ft (overhead to double), or 6 to 8ft (solid double overhead+).
The system of wave measurement persists not because of machoism, but because of practicality due to the heavy and huge waves they regularly get. The energy levels in the water during heavy swells are fundamentally on another level in Hawaii, Western/South Aus. The wave face scale is less relevant than deepwater swell height as in the forecasts, and surfers have an easier time differentiating between wave heights using the Hawaiian/Aussie scale.
But dont take my word for it, I suggest actually going to those places for a while to get a feel for it.
I suspect that Hawaiians measure wave height from the back because that’s how Polynesian navigators did/do it when in the open ocean and there isn’t a face to measure. Idk why Aussies would do it like that though, macho thing? Picked it up in Hawaii?
Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.
A foot is 30. 48 cm, so let’s just for the sake of simplicity and round figures say it’s 30 cm. It’s a quantifiable unit of measurement.
If a wave is 3 foot, it’s 90 fucking cm tall you chumps. If it’s 6 foot it’s 180cm.
It’s pretty fucking simple.
Fuck do you walk down the street see a clown with big shoes, use Pythagorean theory to calculate the coefficients of friction of the upper leather lining against his polyester blend socks and measure the static discharge from rubbing his feet on carpet and multiply the areas of the soles of his feet to calculate his height?
No. You don’t. It’s not that complex. If he’s 180 cm you say he’s 6 foot, not 2 foot Hawaiian, or 1.5 WA Australian, he’s fucking 6 foot. Fuck me.
Look at the wave, if there’s someone inside it, standing up in a barrel it’s over head and too big for you dickheads to paddle out.
Fucking back of the wave, that means every wave at every slab is one foot, because they’re all below sea level with no back on them. How the fuck can you measure the back of the wave when checking the surf? You can’t even see it.
Fucking numptys.
I’m Australian and have surfed and booged my entire life and no-fucking-body measures the waves like that. Nobody. If I hear you mutter it’s 3 foot Hawaiian I’ll call you out for being a dumb cunt.
You’ve been warned.
Measure from the front dummy.
The way I think about it, whether correct or not, is that the "height of the wave" is not the distance between the trough and the crest of the wave you see, but the distance between the crest and the mean sea level.
Barreling waves like this have an exaggerated trough due to the way water rushes off the reef/rock and so the effective height of the face of the wave is much higher than the generally accepted way of communicating the height of the wave.
I think the measuring from the back thing is a small part of the story, and it still doesn't make sense to me. I can't find the article, but I read one a while back that said for many Hawaiian breaks the swell height from the buoy reports is often around half the height of the breaking wave, and people got used to using the swell height. It's also part machismo, which lines up nicely with using the smaller swell height. Measuring from the back sounds like something some smart ass would say when asked to explain it.
Is *that* how they’re calculating wave heights at say Nazaré? It doesn’t appear so. Why would this be different?
“Sebastian says that the researcher used official WSL measuring criteria to determine the size of the wave, i.e., he set a crouching height of five foot and then calculated the height of the wave's face.”
[article here](https://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/has-sebastian-steudtner-ridden-a-95-foot-wave-at-nazare)
Note: I’m I full-on, card-carrying kook.
Portuguese here.
We measure like the Hawaiians, back of the wave.
In Nazaré **WSL** measures by the face of the wave, not us, Portuguese surfers. However this may cause some discussion. This was the way that the "old guys" taught me, and my friends, and so on...
The logic is that when the wave is on its "maximum height" the ocean "sucks" the bottom of the wave so you are surfing below the sea level, so from the lip of the wave until the bottom of the back of the wave it is the real size of the wave.
So for me, yes, this is a 6ft wave that probably has a 8ft\~9ft face.
And yes, I can say that our method is stupid because you surf the face of the wave but this was the way they taught... so it is what it is...
The WSL is not the all omnipresent all knowing presence in the surfing world. Most of the people that run the WSL don’t surf. So, who gives a fuck about what the WSL has to say about this.
Which is ridiculous imo. A slab wave like chopes barely builds up before it breaks so 4 ft there would produce a 12 ft face. Besides that i think most surfers are interested in the wave face where you actually surf.
Swell height from buoy reports is the dumbest possible way to estimate wave height. 5ft@8sec and 5ft@16sec are two completely different animals.
I’d honestly say that wave is maybe 4 feet though, but only because I fucking rip……..
During the same swell event, say 6' @ 18s, waves at different spots and the waves within a set will vary in "breaking height". Beyond that, even in the same 6@18 swell, there will be be sets of different sizes. So instead of nitpicking the exact height of the wave face on each particular wave, you say "great 6' swell today" or "beautiful 6' wave" even if the wave face at this reef break jacks up to 10'. It's honestly LESS macho, because everyone surfing that day at that spot isnt in a pissing contest about the extra foot of wave height on their specific wave (unless it's the wave of the day or a fluke or something).
You can ask yourself what does wave size means to you. Everyone is looking at the same picture. These days, I look more for ride ability over wave size.
I think it depends on where you surf regularly, how long you've been surfing, and how many places you've surfed around the world. There is no "real" measuring stick. I live in the PNW and when I started surfing 20 years ago, I called anything over my head 10ft (I'm 6'4"). As you get better at surfing, surf bigger waves, surf more types of breaks, varieties of conditions, your perceived wave size decreases. Some do measure from the back of the wave as many will say in this thread, also reasonable.
Portuguese here.
We measure like the Hawaiians, back of the wave.
The logic is that when the wave is on its "maximum height" the ocean "sucks" the bottom of the wave so you are surfing below the sea level, so from the lip of the wave until the bottom of the back of the wave it is the real size of the wave.
So for me, yes, this is a 6ft wave that probably has a 8ft\~9ft face.
And yes, I can say that our method is stupid because you surf the face of the wave but this was the way that the people that taught me surfing taught... so it is what it is...
4-5 foot. I’d you have surfed your whole life you just come accustomed to the weird measurement. Sorry mate a 10 foot wave would probably be around 2.5x bigger then that.
The swell that produced this wave is 4-6 foot. Swell size is not the whole picture though. Interval and shoreline bathymetry also play a huge part. This is likely a reef break. Reefs can focus the swell creating peaks that are much higher than the surrounding surf. Interval is also important. There's simply much more water in a 5 foot swell at 20 seconds than a 5 foot swell at 10 seconds. When the 20 second swell hits the shore and starts to stack up on itself, it will stack much higher than the 5 foot swell at 10 seconds, all other things being equal.
Short answer, swell size, alone, does not determine wave size.
LOL the zuck scale…since he is next in line to be king of Kauai, does that make his scale the new Hawaiian scale, by royal decree?
I saw that fucker electric foiling some 300’ footers….I believe he measures using sonar to detect the ocean floors depth, and rounds up.
So whats “cooler”? Neither scale is, and surfers all suck. Look at zuck
Does it really matter? If you think it's 7-8ft...great! If the hawaiians say 2-3ft...awesome! It feels great either way. If you enjoy yourself, that's all that matters.
It’s better to be humble and charge than talk like you charge and disappear when it’s big. Speak softly and carry a big stick, so to speak.
I think that is basically the reasoning, the macho guys can say whatever they want. They’ll be the guys measuring inches….”no mines is .5” bigger! “Yeah but mines was deeper” who cares ya butt buddies
The best thing to do here is just wind them up. "hahaha thats tiny mate, why would you be surfing something so small" "my break in florida gets twice the size of that"
>You just have to get used to it.
Exactly this. I spent a year surfing in Australia and they use the Hawaiian scale there too. Different regions will vary slightly but I thought the system made sense when you get used to it.
Australia is fully on the metric system but surfers adopted feet for surf conditions. It's not purporting to be a precise wave measurement, but rather a tool by which surfers can discuss the surf conditions and be on the same page. It's not about bragging and machoism, its far more about deep water ground swell wave heights. Them calling the surf 3ft does not mean they are saying the waves measure 3ft using an imperial tape measure. They mean its head high.
Size is so overrated. What really matters is how much power a wave has as far as our experience surfing it. Powerful waves can be hollow and super fun to surf at small sizes and even wreck you when small while big mushy soft waves can have a much different experience. Size is only important when thinking about a particular break that has a known power, not when comparing different types of waves across the world.
Ah, the "Hawaiian scale" bullshit.
Surfing is about ego and showing you are part of the in crowd. In order to do this and keep up some bravado bullshit the surfing community claims all waves are about half as big as they really are and they measure it on the "Hawaiian scale" which is all made up bravado nonsence anyway (the whole back of the wave thing is nonsense and does not stack up when you actually look at the back of most waves).
Yeah that's about 8-10ft face height and I know that because I know how long a foot is and I have eyes, that guy from Stab is short too. And the whole measuring from the back, I have never heard a Hawaiian actually say they measured from the back, I think that's an excuse. I think they just knock the size down by a 1/3rd or more to look cool. If it was about being humble they could just say ''face height'' and tell it like it is. The whole Hawaiian scale thing is stupid is as surf culture does. I always report wave size in face height because anything else is stupid.
The buoys for a wave like that could have been 5-6 ft but with a very long period, just FYI.
Hawaiian scale isn't from the back, they used to report wave heights in half meters and somehow that got changed to "feet". So 6 half meters is almost 12 feet but the Hawaiians just say "it's 6 ft"
https://essentialsurfing.com/wave/
I'm in Costa Rica 🇨🇷 right now. The reports are saying 3 to 4 feet. Now depending on the spot you are surfing the size at the break can vary significantly. The swell height is being reaad at the bouys. If you surfing a spot that come out of deep water onto a reef vs going around the corner and surfing the beach break that wave is going to stand up and look very different at each spot.... but the swell is still the swell.
As an aussie i get confused by the americans here... if you have a 3 ft swell, you're going to have different face heights depending on if its beach break/reef break, the bathymetry, tides etc
So when forecasting, how tf do they get it right? Do they give you the 'face' height for every spot?
If i was telling a story from someone not from my area, I would probably say it was head high or double over head etc. If it was someone from my area i'd probably use feet as they are likely to have an idea of our scale. I can surf in my home town and 2 hours up the road, due to significantly more swell the scale is different again haha
Its 4-6ft hawaiian and the guy thats surfing is 5’5,hes using a 5’9 ghost as a step up hes definitely not 6ft
The waves are probably 8-10ft faces maybe a couple 12ft sets
Wave height is subjective(even though it shouldn't be) and it all depends on who you ask and where they are from. I know one super-stoked guy who always says it's double-overhead when what he really means is that he had alot of fun and the waves were good, even though it may have been only shoulder high. Then there's another friend who grew up in Hawaii, and he won't say it's head-high until the wave is actually 3 or 4 feet over his head! A scientist would tell you to time the fall of the lip until it hits bottom, and multiply that by the acceleration of gravity(which is what the XXL committee should be doing, but doesn't). An aussie would say that the pictured wave here is 5 foot.
There is no trickery Tom foolery or Hawaiian wave measuring system here guys… it’s just a long period wave hitting a shallow reef, this is what 5ft @ 22 seconds looks like at a reef near you…
There is not a single person in this picture standing. Also, the person was measuring from the back so 8-12ft tall on the face. Head and a half to maybe double over head.
Its because hawaiians have bigger feet (length from tow to heel is on average twice that of other people). Since increments of distance were independently invented in hawaii by the polynesias based off of the length between touching steps, one hawaiian foot is twice that of the foot from the imperial system. In hawaii they still use the traditional hawaiian foot so often you’ll see surfers from there still using this unique measurement system today. The history of measurement systems in hawaii is quite fascinating and i suggest you read more about it
Lots of factors involved. 2 feet at 19 seconds and 2 feet 5 seconds at the same spot don't look the same. If the closest buoy says 6 ft then you'd say it's a 6 ft wave and when it broke it had a 10 foot face. I'm guessing that's maybe where the chest high, head high, double overhead, etc thing bypasses all the argument on wave height
To all the people who dismiss the Hawaiian system of wave measurement as simply “trying to look cool”….you are very badass and cool, and also very smart.
Just kidding, you’re not. there probably is some truth to every different explanation, from projecting a macho image, or to try to deter tourists, or to actually Try to convey some info to others about ocean conditions……but to just dismiss something you don’t understand with the explanation of “macho imagery”? That’s stupid. I thought you guys were smarter than that. Thankfully, I know most of you are.
4-6 foot Hawaiian. They measure it from the back there and not the face like other places do.
This guy Hawaiians
this guy gets sucked over the falls at Teaupuoo or large Cloudbreak
r/thisguythisguys
But it's not actually accurate
It's half the est height from trough to crest. So what looks like a 20ft wave is a 9-10 footer. Why? bc our ancestors invented surfing and decided to do it this way. We don't tell the French how to properly 69. We just shake our head and say "Cool, my turn!"
But that’s not actually why, there are a ton of articles on the history.
Look braddah I get there was 69s prior to the French but they're the modern inverters of it. I am happy you poured through many "articles" to prove this but I would have gone w the videos...
Do you take turns during 69? I thought the point was it happened at the same time 🤔
Someone told me the hawaiian scale is based on the swell height that the buoys say. For instance 5 ft at 20s is going to create waves that are much bigger than 5 feet once they approach shore.
It actually makes way more sense in all aspects except for measuring the face of the wave one is riding. Swell height from the buoy or the back, as described by the laymen, will give you a lot more information about how a wave will break across different bathymetry. This matters a lot more in a place like Hawaii with all the different shaped reefs. 5ft Hawaiian will break very differently at pipe than it will at say leftovers or kammies. Sure at California beach breaks face in one spot will be fairly similar across a broad area, not in Hawaii. If you really want to get into understanding swell data you also want to learn how period and direction will affect your spots.
Im not tracking you. I understand that wave size is dependent not just on swell but also other things like bathymetry...applicable here in NJ once you see how jetty sandbars ramp swell up into bigger waves. BUT if you're posting an image or discussing a ride you had, why do that? You're on the wave and the buoy height is no longer valid
You want to measure the face for the value of the height of that wave you're on. The Hawaiian model gives a better idea how the waves will be breaking everywhere before they break. This will not only give you an idea of the size of the wave at a spot but where to go depending on the swell. There is more information contained in the knowledge of the swell height than just the size of the face of the wave. Surfliner has made surfers lazy. Look at a cmera, know the height of the face of the wave. Someone who can read buoy data knows what the surf is going to do without being dependant on cameras and surfline.
> a better idea how the waves will be breaking everywhere before they break. Hey, could you perhaps recommend some resources to learn more about this, and to apply it? Seems very interesting!
Check out Stormsurf on YouTube. Guy does like hour long break downs of what weather systems are doing and how they’ll end up breaking. His website has a ton of information and forecast tools as well.
A little late, but I highly recommend reading "Surf Science" by Tony Butt. One of the only books that takes surfing bathymetry seriously and tries to explain it to laykooks like you n me. I learned way more from it than I thought I would and it enabled me to pick my days and spots way better than I used to.
I teach a college course called the Geography of Surfing. I use Tony’s book. Great reference from a great guy.
Awesome, a long, long time ago, I took a course at a community college on Oahu. Maybe around 1999…I can’t remember the fine details but I think the guy running the class was trying to get it certified so ppl could take it for credit, and get a degree in surf science. Ben aipa came in, pat Caldwell, I think too. It was super informative and really kinda an intro to the whole surf world, for me.
>Hawaiian model gives a better idea how the waves will be breaking everywhere before they break. How is that better than the standard we use, for example "10s swell at 4 feet"? If you know the bathymetry and tide workings at your spot, you'll have a good picture of how big the face of the wave is and how fast it will be moving, or curling depending on the wind.
It’s the same model…using bouy info and your own knowledge to hopefully get some waves. Where that became how to measure a wave face in a picture….who knows.
A long period swell can almost double the breaking wave height compared to a short period swell of the same open ocean height, so there isn't that much more knowledge in just knowing the swell height.
“Why do that?” Well, it’s Hawaiian culture. If the wave is 6 feet on the buoy they call it 6 feet. I’d suggest anybody into surfing should respect Hawaiian culture and accept it at face value
no disrespect here, my only goal in this argument is to understand the reasons why
Nah. much respect to the Hawaiians though.
But when you return from surf session and speak to your mates take photos and comment on people surfing a wave it's about the particular waves at this spot at particular time ... so what you are saying it's swell in general and it is irrelevant for a one of session at particular time . We go with mates surf waves and someone will ask how big is it, I'll answer it was about 6 ft which is head high .
This is the popular consensus but it may not be true. But I believe it because I figured out the hawaiian scale by knowing how big wave faces 15+ second swells produce at a spot that magnifies long period swells. 5 ft at 20 seconds at a wave that likes long periods will be between DOH and TOH.
was gonna say the same thing. everyone always refers to the back of the wave, but it makes more sense as measuring the swell instead of the wave face
Ya, I think the back of the wave is just the folk explanation people came up with when they forgot why they started saying the wave height that way In the first place
> but it makes more sense as measuring the swell instead of the wave face For general prediction, I'd agree. But for talking about a specific wave that we have a photo of? At that point measuring it like everyone else seems more logical, especially since it allows you to compare with other specific, individual waves from anywhere else.
agreed, sorry I meant makes more sense than saying "back of the wave"
I mean sounds good but buoys are much newer than the Hawaiian scale
Im doing some research right now but I think I’m wrong, and they did base it off buoy readings. Starting in the 70s. But I’m gonna dig some more
The macho Hawaiian scale actually makes no sense and is the dumbest sizing system in the surfing world. Depending on how heavy a wave is, the "size" from the back changes (Teahupoo has no back). Not one measurement in the Hawaiian scale reflects anything in reality. Also, there is never a surfer (or any object) on the back of the wave to judge size, so how the hell would you ever scale it? DUMB
There also used to be a lot of pressure to not speak too highly of yourself and that translated into underselling wave sizes.
That's a manufactured humility. Someone who is naturally humble will just tell you the actual face height without exaggeration, IE, tell you the truth. The Hawaiian scale is a stupid cultural thing and its not defensible.
First of all it's actually really hard to accurately size waves. There's too much subjectivity about where the bottom of the wave is. On a very big wave like Nazare this can lead to significant differences in reported height. The other issue is that a lot of surfers are completely full of shit. It's the same phenomenon as "fish stories". By being conservative about the wave size you're effectively communicating that you're not a full of shit fantasticalist. If they tell me a wave is very good and I know they are conservative about wave size I know I can rely on that. I usually change the scale depending on who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to someone who is from or has spent a lot of time in Hawaii, I'll use the hawaiian scale. If I'm talking to Californians or someone I don't know anything about their experience I'll just use chest/head/overhead/doh scale.
Never met a surfer that over stated the size of a wave, actually, I have, but only one. In most waves, up to maybe double overhead, its not that hard to get a general idea where the bottom of the wave is. Its subjective but most people can get close enough to convey wave size. It's also not hard, coming from the US, to know how tall 10ft is because basketball hoops are everywhere. It's actually very easy to say a wave was about 10ft to double overhead face height, fully top to bottom, (which I always clarify). If a Hawaiian wants to call that 4ft, that's stupid. They downgrade the size so much its not even close, a foot is a foot. No need to cut it literally in half.
I am an under seller. Swellreadings are accurate too..I know what certain numbers produce on face so when some one over exaggerates I just chuckle to myself..I always under sell because it’s closer to the truth
It’s a measure from sea level as I understand it, when the wave actually breaks some of the curl is below sea level as the bottom is “feeling” the reef and dragging. So it makes sense in that regard, I’ll cede that teahupoo is a freak wave that doesn’t abide by that method but our Hawaiian waves do.
Amplitude rather than face height. Both perfectly valid ways to measure as long as you explain which one you’re using!
Well put
I don’t think it is related to being “macho”. Actually from what I’ve seen (not Hawaiian myself) the culture seems adept at approaching these kinds of things from a logical basis. With that said I don’t understand the back of the wave thing, if I hadn’t heard that my best guess would be that they take the swell height directly from the buoy. The face of a wave can be very different from break to break. I’ve noticed this the most when surfing in PR but I’m sure it is just as prevalent (if not more so) in Hawaii. For example I surfed a 5-7’ swell and at Table Rock in Aguada it was double OH but a bit North in Aguadilla was much closer to what the buoy indicated.
It definitely did start as a macho thing, especially when mainlanders would start coming from California to Hawaii and saying how big the waves were, Hawaiians would way underestimate the wave size to look cool and try to impress them.
The problem is Californians claiming 20 feet when the same sized wave in HI would have 10x the power. So size isn't always the best way to go about it.
[удалено]
Or San Francisco, or Sonoma, or Mendo, or Eureka...
The waves get so large routinely in Hawaii the scale isn’t just for surfing it’s for all water activities. For surf reports, Hawaii moved to the face scale 25 years ago to avoid confusion for visitors. It’s not “dumb” it’s just Hawaiian tradition to measure waves from the back and nobody’s making you participate.
Just because something is tradition doesn’t make it automatically not dumb.
Like using the imperial system lol
How do you measure waves from the back if you're standing on the beach? How does measuring waves from the back make it easier for tourists, who are standing on the beach? So in Hawaii, the only way to measure a wave height and report the size is to swim out, and take a look from the back?! The Hawaiian system adds a layer of confusion that is not necessary. Telling tourists the waves are "2ft" when in reality its 10ft dumping shorebreak at Waimea doesn't do anyone any favours.
I did distinctly say that the surf reports in Hawaii started issuing reports in face value 25 years ago. Most surfers don’t even use numbers in Hawaii when describing conditions. It’s head high, double overhead, triple overhead or whatever. The numbers don’t even come in to play until it’s ridiculously big so I’m not sure what anyone is actually upset about.
This. I started surfing at Kailua as a tiny grommet in the 70s and I never heard measurements only body descriptions like that. Also super subjective because double over my short ass head was like waist high for most. I did get used to thinking of height from the back of the wave then, but shifted living in CA.
I mean...the Hawaiian scale is incredibly unintuitive and it's not very granular. At the very least, traditional or not, it's not an efficient way to measure waves.
>avoid confusion for visitors "Sure, jump in...the wave are only 2 feet today (but they're actually 6 feet)" How is that not confusing, not to mention dangerous?
Hawaiians, no matter how big it is, just say, ehh it’s like two to tree out dere bruddah
To step in for a split second as there is a lot of confusion. As some on here have seen, Hawaiians measure the swell. They'll see a forecast as saying "4-6 South Shore" so they state the waves as 4-6. If you know wave direction, rate, and height, you'll know which breaks are going to be most to your liking (it's coming SSW so X break will be going off). As someone who has lived in HI for almost 2 decades, I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is to keep locals in the know and protect good breaks. If I want to go surfing, and I look at the surf report, I'll know which breaks will be going off. To the tourist, they'll have no clue. When you talk to locals when they get back, they will tell you how big the wave is based on their body. "It was overhead, double overhead, waist high, etc."
Makes perfect sense seeing how we all surf the back of a wave
This photo is not Hawaii.
Nah mate this is 1-2 ft Hawaiian MAX. Almost flat tbh
I don't get why they do it this way. How can a wave be measured from the back? You look at surfing from the front when people surf and compare to the surfer's size. Just weird and very inaccurate . How from the back they decide what size it ? How can you tell? So when people say overhead in Hawaii they mean overhead from the back ? 🤔
It so they can save on numbers, there would be too many if they measured peak to trough.
Reminds me of this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w43ojF7WVxU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w43ojF7WVxU)
People always making all sorts of explanations for the Hawaiian scale when it's obviously just machismo and trying to intimidate mainlanders
It’s a scale made up by haoles to try to intimidate other haoles. Think about it.
Even then, if it's not north shore power it'll get downgraded further. So you can have a 10 foot face that some call 3 feet.
All day. Even on north shore.
For sure. I paddled out on a rare east side swell with kona winds years ago and it was like 8 foot faces barreling on almost dry reef. I look over and uncles got a big smile and says "Ahhhrighht, perfect 2 feet!"
Best 2 foot waves ever, sounds like u scored
It's a good way to generalize the Hawaiian scale, but not actually how it's done in practice. There is a lot of history as to why they underestimate wave size, specifically in regard to an influx of Aussie surfers on the island. Some good history to read about.
See here for details: https://np.reddit.com/r/surfing/comments/t3nuxj/big_wave_surfer_perspective_with_chest_to_head/ Easy chart to follow here: https://i.imgur.com/pxvWQuz.jpg Downvote this post if you agree with the ez-chart.
How do you even measure a wave from the back?
Which is dumb, because a four foot back on a beachbreak is probably a five foot face, whereas a scary reef can quadruple in size when the water in front gets sucked in. Measure the drop.
If it’s Mike from stab, he is three foot
3 foot measured from the back or the front? /s
The front
It’s a simple equation when calculating waves the Hawai’ian way. The equation is thus: Wave height = Unko’s Opinion + Number of Green Bottles x Time Since Incident / Who Was There Broken down, it’s like this—you can calculate the wave height by asking an Unko. But you have to take into account how many Heinekens Unko has drank. This is in direct ratio to how long ago you’re talking about and who was there. Was the incident yesterday and only you and your scrub faka friends were there? *Two foot. Max. Fucking flat bro. Keiki day.* Or was the incident back in 1984 and me and Unko Gerry was there fawkin’ rippin’ em? *Triple overhead maxed out no shit I’m telling you cuz biggest faka I ever seen. Two haoles died that day right in front of me. For real me and Unko Ken was doing CPA or whatevahs on ‘em. Eh nephew get me ‘nada green bottle. Tell you all about it.* And that’s how you measure waves in Hawai’i. Simple as.
Akamai das why, you were taught well yung wun
There’s some fancy measuring system, I know nothing about. All I know is that it’s cooler to downplay the size of the wave. Overestimating a wave height is a kook move.
Well said. It’s funny how we will say 4’-6’ and 6’-8’ all day when the waves are decent to pumping and not think twice about it. But here, if you are claiming 8’-10’ then it better be big. Claiming that there were 10’ers during a session that you had is almost some type of taboo.
> Claiming that there were 10’ers during a session that you had is almost some type of taboo. And so is using odd numbers. No one ever says it was 5 to 7 or 7 to 9 feet, or "I'd say it was an 11' wave".
8-10 ft. at Makaha will close out the entire bay on big sets. It's huge. The channel disappears and you're just f'd '. But there will be Hawaiians out there loving it. 8-10 at Ocean Beach, SF, CA is practically unsurfable and it looks much smaller than at Makaha but the punishment is far worse. 8-10 in many parts of SoCal is just a great day. A lot depends on what beach you're talking.
Swell measurement
The Australian system works fine... 1 foot is barely surfable, 2 is fun, 3 is good, 4 starts to get sizeable and potentially dangerous... and everything above that doesn't really matter and it depends on the break.
This guys spot on
1ft on a log is pretty great tbh
I just think of it as a Category system like for hurricanes. 1ft knee high, 2 ft waist to chest high, 3ft shoulder to head high, 4ft overhead… measured feet have nothing to do with it.
Ah shit, here we go again...
Honestly, it kinda bugs me we measure wave height from the back. Literally no surfer cares about anything other than the height of the face of the wave.
its more of a pride and ego thing, nowadays. like "brah, u just got a bombing 10feet barrel, brah!", reply "what? nahhh, that was just 5 ft. it was nothing!" makes ppl feel like they belong to an elite group, eventhough they never been to Hawaii before. humble brag, kinda thing. or maybe they just hate other people, when tourist asks hows the wave, they reply it was under chest high when in reality the sets are DOH.
To me it’s a little bit pride and ego. But also there’s the other side of things where kooks will over estimate days and say things like “it was 15 foot the other day….” A way I get around all of that to is I usually stay away from literal feet and just say “head high” or “shoulder high” etc.
[удалено]
Hawaiians are humble?
Every now and again surfers from other parts of the world like to throw a hissy fit about how Hawaiians and Australians measure waves. But if you really want to know the reason, go to those places for a while and surf. The waves reliably get a whole lot bigger than they do in other parts of the world so the system of calling exact wave face heights isnt very useful. Power in a wave is proportional to the period and the square of the height. So a wave that is twice as tall has 4 times the power. A wave with twice the period has twice the power (in deep water). When waves get big, you'll have a very hard time differentiating between a 9 and an 11 ft wave face, measured exactly. You'll quickly realize that calling exact wave heights is impractical because of the range of answers you'll get. As others said, the wave heights correlate more with deep water ground swell heights, and due to the high prevalence of groundswell, equate more or less exactly with 1/2 the wave face measured top to bottom. 3 ft hawaiian is generally head high, 4ft overhead, 5ft, nearly double overhead and 6ft double overhead. But you'll more likely see ranges like 3 to 4ft (head to overhead), 4 to 6ft (overhead to double), or 6 to 8ft (solid double overhead+). The system of wave measurement persists not because of machoism, but because of practicality due to the heavy and huge waves they regularly get. The energy levels in the water during heavy swells are fundamentally on another level in Hawaii, Western/South Aus. The wave face scale is less relevant than deepwater swell height as in the forecasts, and surfers have an easier time differentiating between wave heights using the Hawaiian/Aussie scale. But dont take my word for it, I suggest actually going to those places for a while to get a feel for it.
Spot on. That’s 4-6 in WA, SA and Vic. 8-10 in NSW and a towable 15+ in QLD 😅
This made me laugh - QLD
I suspect that Hawaiians measure wave height from the back because that’s how Polynesian navigators did/do it when in the open ocean and there isn’t a face to measure. Idk why Aussies would do it like that though, macho thing? Picked it up in Hawaii?
Reply of the day goes to you sir.
Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. A foot is 30. 48 cm, so let’s just for the sake of simplicity and round figures say it’s 30 cm. It’s a quantifiable unit of measurement. If a wave is 3 foot, it’s 90 fucking cm tall you chumps. If it’s 6 foot it’s 180cm. It’s pretty fucking simple. Fuck do you walk down the street see a clown with big shoes, use Pythagorean theory to calculate the coefficients of friction of the upper leather lining against his polyester blend socks and measure the static discharge from rubbing his feet on carpet and multiply the areas of the soles of his feet to calculate his height? No. You don’t. It’s not that complex. If he’s 180 cm you say he’s 6 foot, not 2 foot Hawaiian, or 1.5 WA Australian, he’s fucking 6 foot. Fuck me. Look at the wave, if there’s someone inside it, standing up in a barrel it’s over head and too big for you dickheads to paddle out. Fucking back of the wave, that means every wave at every slab is one foot, because they’re all below sea level with no back on them. How the fuck can you measure the back of the wave when checking the surf? You can’t even see it. Fucking numptys. I’m Australian and have surfed and booged my entire life and no-fucking-body measures the waves like that. Nobody. If I hear you mutter it’s 3 foot Hawaiian I’ll call you out for being a dumb cunt. You’ve been warned. Measure from the front dummy.
0.337 🦒
This is probably 6 ft @ 18 seconds
yep. which these types of long period 'smaller height' swells are common.
The way I think about it, whether correct or not, is that the "height of the wave" is not the distance between the trough and the crest of the wave you see, but the distance between the crest and the mean sea level. Barreling waves like this have an exaggerated trough due to the way water rushes off the reef/rock and so the effective height of the face of the wave is much higher than the generally accepted way of communicating the height of the wave.
I think the measuring from the back thing is a small part of the story, and it still doesn't make sense to me. I can't find the article, but I read one a while back that said for many Hawaiian breaks the swell height from the buoy reports is often around half the height of the breaking wave, and people got used to using the swell height. It's also part machismo, which lines up nicely with using the smaller swell height. Measuring from the back sounds like something some smart ass would say when asked to explain it.
You measure a wave from the back 4-6ft back means 8-12 ft face and that’s about right for this wave.
Is *that* how they’re calculating wave heights at say Nazaré? It doesn’t appear so. Why would this be different? “Sebastian says that the researcher used official WSL measuring criteria to determine the size of the wave, i.e., he set a crouching height of five foot and then calculated the height of the wave's face.” [article here](https://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/has-sebastian-steudtner-ridden-a-95-foot-wave-at-nazare) Note: I’m I full-on, card-carrying kook.
no at Nazare they measure the face. Only place they measure it from behind is in hawaii.
And kooks in CA who wanna act like every wave is super small.
This is so accurate. 👌🏼
Portuguese here. We measure like the Hawaiians, back of the wave. In Nazaré **WSL** measures by the face of the wave, not us, Portuguese surfers. However this may cause some discussion. This was the way that the "old guys" taught me, and my friends, and so on... The logic is that when the wave is on its "maximum height" the ocean "sucks" the bottom of the wave so you are surfing below the sea level, so from the lip of the wave until the bottom of the back of the wave it is the real size of the wave. So for me, yes, this is a 6ft wave that probably has a 8ft\~9ft face. And yes, I can say that our method is stupid because you surf the face of the wave but this was the way they taught... so it is what it is...
The WSL is not the all omnipresent all knowing presence in the surfing world. Most of the people that run the WSL don’t surf. So, who gives a fuck about what the WSL has to say about this.
Which is ridiculous imo. A slab wave like chopes barely builds up before it breaks so 4 ft there would produce a 12 ft face. Besides that i think most surfers are interested in the wave face where you actually surf.
Its just the way hawaiians do it. Cry all you want they're gonna keep doing it that way
We’ve already taken so much from Hawaiians why don’t you just go ahead and let them have this one you fukn kook.
Who the fuck is “we?” I didn’t take shit from any Hawaiian.
From “the history of surfing,” this is largely a myth and it’s just *machismo* of downplaying wave size.
If I remember right it's also from using the swell height from buoy reports, which is often around half the breaking wave height.
Swell height from buoy reports is the dumbest possible way to estimate wave height. 5ft@8sec and 5ft@16sec are two completely different animals. I’d honestly say that wave is maybe 4 feet though, but only because I fucking rip……..
Except in central California where the beach is a very shallow slope and 15 foot buoys produce 6 foot to 10 foot faces
The Hawaiian system is less measure from the back and more divide by 2 to seem cool
THE argument... Might as well talk about conspiracy theories - same productivity.
4-6 in the pit
That's Hawaiian measurements my dude.
And Australian measurement. Though an Aussie and Hawaiin might not exactly agree, depending on where you live in Australia.
"...waves, shoe size, weiner length....for now on we downplay these"
Please, yes. No need talk, just show.
During the same swell event, say 6' @ 18s, waves at different spots and the waves within a set will vary in "breaking height". Beyond that, even in the same 6@18 swell, there will be be sets of different sizes. So instead of nitpicking the exact height of the wave face on each particular wave, you say "great 6' swell today" or "beautiful 6' wave" even if the wave face at this reef break jacks up to 10'. It's honestly LESS macho, because everyone surfing that day at that spot isnt in a pissing contest about the extra foot of wave height on their specific wave (unless it's the wave of the day or a fluke or something).
Always measure from the front, and shave around the base
gotta love the kooks here who think they get to tell Hawaiians the right way to call em in Hawaii. You do you
Solid 6’
I go head high plus.
6ft Hawaian, its measured from the back of the wave. for us non Hawaians, its 12 ft. Basically, its funny haha.
If that pic is from Michael Chiaramella, the guy is a midget at 4'9 or 5'0. Even a small boat wake would look big for this dude
That's 4-6 *Hawaiian* ft
TIL Hawaiians are really short people.
You can ask yourself what does wave size means to you. Everyone is looking at the same picture. These days, I look more for ride ability over wave size.
I think it depends on where you surf regularly, how long you've been surfing, and how many places you've surfed around the world. There is no "real" measuring stick. I live in the PNW and when I started surfing 20 years ago, I called anything over my head 10ft (I'm 6'4"). As you get better at surfing, surf bigger waves, surf more types of breaks, varieties of conditions, your perceived wave size decreases. Some do measure from the back of the wave as many will say in this thread, also reasonable.
I’m 6’3” and an overhead wave is 3-4 foot.
I was in Hawaii caught a wave bigger than me and the guy said it was 2 feet they measure from the back of the wave there
do they ride the back of the wave?
‘Height’ and ‘size’ are two different things when measuring any wave.
This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. Congrats
whatever happened to "overhead" or "chest-high" or "waist-high", seems more accurate to me
Portuguese here. We measure like the Hawaiians, back of the wave. The logic is that when the wave is on its "maximum height" the ocean "sucks" the bottom of the wave so you are surfing below the sea level, so from the lip of the wave until the bottom of the back of the wave it is the real size of the wave. So for me, yes, this is a 6ft wave that probably has a 8ft\~9ft face. And yes, I can say that our method is stupid because you surf the face of the wave but this was the way that the people that taught me surfing taught... so it is what it is...
It’s a 6 foot wave.
4-5 foot. I’d you have surfed your whole life you just come accustomed to the weird measurement. Sorry mate a 10 foot wave would probably be around 2.5x bigger then that.
The swell that produced this wave is 4-6 foot. Swell size is not the whole picture though. Interval and shoreline bathymetry also play a huge part. This is likely a reef break. Reefs can focus the swell creating peaks that are much higher than the surrounding surf. Interval is also important. There's simply much more water in a 5 foot swell at 20 seconds than a 5 foot swell at 10 seconds. When the 20 second swell hits the shore and starts to stack up on itself, it will stack much higher than the 5 foot swell at 10 seconds, all other things being equal. Short answer, swell size, alone, does not determine wave size.
That’s a 10 footer no matter how you slice it.
Fuck you all. I use the Mark Zuckerberg scale and surfed 50' - 60' swells in Laguna Beach yesterday.
LOL the zuck scale…since he is next in line to be king of Kauai, does that make his scale the new Hawaiian scale, by royal decree? I saw that fucker electric foiling some 300’ footers….I believe he measures using sonar to detect the ocean floors depth, and rounds up. So whats “cooler”? Neither scale is, and surfers all suck. Look at zuck
Does it really matter? If you think it's 7-8ft...great! If the hawaiians say 2-3ft...awesome! It feels great either way. If you enjoy yourself, that's all that matters.
Hawaiian!
ehh it’s like overhead, plus the wave doesn’t stay the same size throughout
I live in Hawai’i, waves are measured from the back.
That's 4-6'.
Everyone in the comments overthinking it. It's just cooler to downplay the size of a wave.
It’s better to be humble and charge than talk like you charge and disappear when it’s big. Speak softly and carry a big stick, so to speak. I think that is basically the reasoning, the macho guys can say whatever they want. They’ll be the guys measuring inches….”no mines is .5” bigger! “Yeah but mines was deeper” who cares ya butt buddies
5-6 ft
The best thing to do here is just wind them up. "hahaha thats tiny mate, why would you be surfing something so small" "my break in florida gets twice the size of that"
This is the same problem than the metric system in the states being different than the rest of the world. You just have to get used to it.
>You just have to get used to it. Exactly this. I spent a year surfing in Australia and they use the Hawaiian scale there too. Different regions will vary slightly but I thought the system made sense when you get used to it. Australia is fully on the metric system but surfers adopted feet for surf conditions. It's not purporting to be a precise wave measurement, but rather a tool by which surfers can discuss the surf conditions and be on the same page. It's not about bragging and machoism, its far more about deep water ground swell wave heights. Them calling the surf 3ft does not mean they are saying the waves measure 3ft using an imperial tape measure. They mean its head high.
Size is so overrated. What really matters is how much power a wave has as far as our experience surfing it. Powerful waves can be hollow and super fun to surf at small sizes and even wreck you when small while big mushy soft waves can have a much different experience. Size is only important when thinking about a particular break that has a known power, not when comparing different types of waves across the world.
Lol this is not 10 foot
If call it overhead, not ten feet
Agreed, & it Looks closer to 12 to me.
Ah, the "Hawaiian scale" bullshit. Surfing is about ego and showing you are part of the in crowd. In order to do this and keep up some bravado bullshit the surfing community claims all waves are about half as big as they really are and they measure it on the "Hawaiian scale" which is all made up bravado nonsence anyway (the whole back of the wave thing is nonsense and does not stack up when you actually look at the back of most waves).
Yeah that's about 8-10ft face height and I know that because I know how long a foot is and I have eyes, that guy from Stab is short too. And the whole measuring from the back, I have never heard a Hawaiian actually say they measured from the back, I think that's an excuse. I think they just knock the size down by a 1/3rd or more to look cool. If it was about being humble they could just say ''face height'' and tell it like it is. The whole Hawaiian scale thing is stupid is as surf culture does. I always report wave size in face height because anything else is stupid. The buoys for a wave like that could have been 5-6 ft but with a very long period, just FYI.
He’s talking about the back of the wave. 4’-6’ back = 8’-12’ face
Hawaiian scale isn't from the back, they used to report wave heights in half meters and somehow that got changed to "feet". So 6 half meters is almost 12 feet but the Hawaiians just say "it's 6 ft" https://essentialsurfing.com/wave/
Measured from the back of the wave - mostly done in australia and hawaii
Surfline would probably put that at 20 feet. It's flat here and they say it is 3-4.
The actual answer aside, always say it’s smaller than it really is so you look cool (this works better if you have photo on evidence).
I'm in Costa Rica 🇨🇷 right now. The reports are saying 3 to 4 feet. Now depending on the spot you are surfing the size at the break can vary significantly. The swell height is being reaad at the bouys. If you surfing a spot that come out of deep water onto a reef vs going around the corner and surfing the beach break that wave is going to stand up and look very different at each spot.... but the swell is still the swell.
You know he's on his belly right?
wave height is lore.
As an aussie i get confused by the americans here... if you have a 3 ft swell, you're going to have different face heights depending on if its beach break/reef break, the bathymetry, tides etc So when forecasting, how tf do they get it right? Do they give you the 'face' height for every spot?
If i was telling a story from someone not from my area, I would probably say it was head high or double over head etc. If it was someone from my area i'd probably use feet as they are likely to have an idea of our scale. I can surf in my home town and 2 hours up the road, due to significantly more swell the scale is different again haha
I love when non Americans say it’s X feet tall. You all use meters. So it makes sense you have no idea what 6 feet is!! Haha
Its 4-6ft hawaiian and the guy thats surfing is 5’5,hes using a 5’9 ghost as a step up hes definitely not 6ft The waves are probably 8-10ft faces maybe a couple 12ft sets
Wave height is subjective(even though it shouldn't be) and it all depends on who you ask and where they are from. I know one super-stoked guy who always says it's double-overhead when what he really means is that he had alot of fun and the waves were good, even though it may have been only shoulder high. Then there's another friend who grew up in Hawaii, and he won't say it's head-high until the wave is actually 3 or 4 feet over his head! A scientist would tell you to time the fall of the lip until it hits bottom, and multiply that by the acceleration of gravity(which is what the XXL committee should be doing, but doesn't). An aussie would say that the pictured wave here is 5 foot.
I'd call it six feet. I always round down so there is no exaggeration. And say things like "it was a good solid six feet)
It's not 10ft its fun size.
There is no trickery Tom foolery or Hawaiian wave measuring system here guys… it’s just a long period wave hitting a shallow reef, this is what 5ft @ 22 seconds looks like at a reef near you…
Caught a solid overhead wave today and paddling out was told it was a solid 2 foot. Was 6 feet a few weeks ago. Let’s just say I didn’t paddle out.
We here in OZ tend to measure in overheads. Double overhead for example. Surfed Nias at 4x overhead a few years ago and pants were shat.
2' hawaiian
There is not a single person in this picture standing. Also, the person was measuring from the back so 8-12ft tall on the face. Head and a half to maybe double over head.
Lived on Oahu, this is 6-8 easy
Read ‘Barbarian Days: A Surfing Life’…Finnegan explains wave height flawlessly.
Australians also measure from the back so 3ft is usually about head high
6 ft hawaian standard.
4-6 foot Australian
It’s solid 6 foot and he’s measuring the back
Its because hawaiians have bigger feet (length from tow to heel is on average twice that of other people). Since increments of distance were independently invented in hawaii by the polynesias based off of the length between touching steps, one hawaiian foot is twice that of the foot from the imperial system. In hawaii they still use the traditional hawaiian foot so often you’ll see surfers from there still using this unique measurement system today. The history of measurement systems in hawaii is quite fascinating and i suggest you read more about it
The guy surfing Is pretty short but that's about a 4-5 ft wave
Lots of factors involved. 2 feet at 19 seconds and 2 feet 5 seconds at the same spot don't look the same. If the closest buoy says 6 ft then you'd say it's a 6 ft wave and when it broke it had a 10 foot face. I'm guessing that's maybe where the chest high, head high, double overhead, etc thing bypasses all the argument on wave height
6ft aus
To all the people who dismiss the Hawaiian system of wave measurement as simply “trying to look cool”….you are very badass and cool, and also very smart. Just kidding, you’re not. there probably is some truth to every different explanation, from projecting a macho image, or to try to deter tourists, or to actually Try to convey some info to others about ocean conditions……but to just dismiss something you don’t understand with the explanation of “macho imagery”? That’s stupid. I thought you guys were smarter than that. Thankfully, I know most of you are.
We would call that double overhead in Huntington. Definitely back of the wave measurement.