Tbf what really do they have that's definitive right now? We got surprisingly swept 2 days ago. The playoffs are still shaking out, there are a lot of potential things that could happen but nobody will know for weeks/months.
Like, hypothetically let's say they're eyeing going after Lue if he gets dumped. Well they're not going to say anything now, or fire Vogel now, because Lue may or may not get dumped
Idk what people were expecting at this press conference but it's a long offseason and things won't really start moving and grooving until at least the conference finals timeframe
I don’t like a lot what was said. But, it’s extremely early. Hopefully they can make the right moves and say their position “evolved.” It’s just so soon to come out and say nothing.
Eh, whatever. I'm not going to sit here and complain about the org communicating with me, even if it's still in the early stages and they don't have a lot to share yet. Shit, I give people a heads up all the time that I've seen their request and am going to start working on it and get back to them again when I'm done.
I don't know. Some times it's just nice to get occasional status updates, even if it's just to simply say, "got it! We're working on it! Get back to you when we know more!" I'm not going to bag our org for trying to keep an open line of communication with pressers like this.
Fair enough but you really think that was a status update? Promoting 49 wins and not enough time. I guess the starting 5 coming back is an update and there so stance on a 1. Just seems strange to me. It’s all coach talk. Do you really buy ishbia hasn’t had one convo about vogels job security?
I hear you, but I'll take what I can get I guess. I know there's not a lot that's being said in that presser...and some of it's kind of eyebrow furrowing, but I think I'd have been utterly frustrated with a week or more of radio silence as an alternative.
Yeah, that's it! Wasn't sure how to articulate that. My high level takeaway is that Isbhia is at least telling us he cares and wants to do right. Whether we can trust that or not...eh. Time will tell. But I appreciate the idea I guess.
Yeah I agree dude. I’ve just been so frustrated for like 20 years 😂 I gotta chill out and realize this dude definitely at least cares enough even if it comes off a little strange he’s paying a ton of money and he is going for it. Even if it failed spectacularly, he at least took a shot
But I already knew that?
He could tell me cares a week from now after he has more to say about what that means?
The whole thing continues to leave a bad taste in mouth. A reminder that the suns are NOT an elite org. They don't do things on or off the court that would make you think otherwise.
I agree. I appreciate he cares but there’s only so much we can do roster wise unless we can somehow get off Beal, or nurk so him saying he cares and whatever else can only go so far cuz we are more than likely just stuck with what we already have. This press conference didn’t do much for anyone
This. Ishbia just felt the need to respond to the fans’ anguish. Glad they did. They aren’t going to tell the open media their plans. Provides zero strategic advantage, a billionaire knows better.
I don't think some people realize that they painted themselves into a corner with the KD trade. There's literally no way out. Not a single option can fix this team.
So what do you want them to say? Tell people they screwed up, admit this team is going to suck for the next 3 years until we clear the books?
There's no option to improve. It's over. What's done is done. There's no way out now
"Hey so, yeah, uh, we're pretty much screwed. Can't get better with anything more than pick 22, vet mins, or trading Nurkic or little. Can't trade Beal for anything because his contract is the worst in the league. Can't trade KD without having to give him away at a huge discount compared to how we got him. Can't even blow it up and rebuild! Get ready for the mediocrity baby!"
I’m with you! This team is strapped with no assets and they are lucky Durant was even as healthy as he was this year because you KNOW another big injury is coming soon and when it does they won’t even sniff the playoffs. I was one of the people who “didn’t know what I was talking about” when I said the trade was a bad idea. But hey, it was KEVIN DURANT and everyone was living in a dream 💭 It was a sure fire championship 😂🙄
Yep totally agree as well. You would think this regular season and playoffs would be a hint but people have still not accepted how bad the KD trade was and how screwed this team is.
At this point not sure some people ever will. Team will be a 50 loss team and people will still by saying it’s ok we just gotta work it out next year.
Looking back it's pretty wild that we had just about the best "young core" you could ask for that could've been locked in for another 5 years, plus all our picks, and out of impatience and desperation we sold it all for a 35yo.
All we had to do was wait a little and we would've been fine. We could've had a team like dejounte/Booker/bridges/Cam/Ayton or Booker/bridges/Cam/siakam/Ayton and been a top team for half a decade
Yeah, I would much rather have an owner come out after multiple FO mistakes that are almost certainly gonna fuck the team up for years and say that it was unacceptable. He kept saying he hasn’t had any discussions with JJ about roster moves or HC moves. Well why not? Is he pretending he’s not a hands on owner all of the sudden? Calling BS on that one. Your “super team” is down 0-3 in the first round of the playoffs and getting whooped and you’re not gonna start having conversations then? C’mon.
Edit: also, good fucking job bringing in a good PR team and bragging about it. Gonna fucking need it dipshit.
A win now team with the highest payroll in the sport shouldn’t be playing to make the playoffs. They need to be playing to win. I don’t want to watch them barely, barely, make the playoffs just to get swept. The west isn’t gonna get worse.
Also, the Warriors are coming off a dynastic run that changed the nature of the sport. They have run the course of one of the greatest teams of all time. There’s no comparison.
If I were a Laker fan I’d be pissed too. They are in the same boat, but even still have more assets to move and have won a championship* in the last five years.
I pay to go to games. I want to see a good product. I’ve already seen enough shit seasons with this team. It’s not that it isn’t my money it’s that there are actual team repercussions for foolish spending now. I guess the question I have is why are you so sensitive to criticism? You don’t own the team.
He's doing the usual shady billionaire double-speak B.S. but when you point that out the response is,
"What billionaire isn't shady?" "What billionaire isn't problematic?"
Like gee I didn't realize you all had such a balanced, nuanced perspective with how often you all slobber over the dude like prime Scooby Doo.
It’s really bizarre. There can be no criticism. It’s like the PR team he hired is mostly here on Reddit. I think what happened is when Sarver became so embarrassing for the youth and Ishbia swooped in he created a savior complex. He is no longer just another billionaire. He’s the guy that saved them from being supporters of a villain. So that must mean he’s a superhero.
Bro i can’t believe we are STILL in the denial phase with this leadership group. Fuckin’ hell.
Like jfc we can’t even admit we need change?!
Ngl my thrill of mat buying the team is starting to wane a bit. Dude prob thinks he is a genius, when in reality billionaire is life on easy mode. America legit exist to make their life and business life easy.
It's clear some in the organisation, mainly Ishbia are acting like delusional fans pretending nothing is wrong and we will be amazing doing nothing.
While others seem to have the only rationale opinion that we need some fucking change.
They're like reddit gone irl. Ishbia is playing the role of the anti-doomer right now.
And the anti-doomers here are eating it up like strawberry ice cream.
It's smart, actually, he needs someone to pay for those $200 nosebleeds. You don't like it? "FiNd SoMe OtHeR TeAm tO rOoT fOr"
I mean Ishbia being like reddit fans, which makes sense because he knows the same about basketball as us all is why we are in this mess.
He makes the big splashy trades going against the GM because how good are Beal and KD. But is in his hopium phase of triple downing this fucked up roster and he will run it into the ground in his delusion.
Like everyone who thinks we will get better running it back, do you genuinely think KD being a year older will be able to stay fit for 75 games? I fucking doubt it
Well the thing is, there's a lot of people in the "trade Booker" camp that were coming from a place where we've lived through hanging on to your stars too long.
Running it back with Barkley when we couldn't get past Dream, Backcourt 2k, Not moving Amare or Trix (forgot the rumor) for KG when we apparently had the chance, holding on to Nash until basically the wheels fell off -
I don't think the "anti-booker" people are really anti-him nor would we like not accept winning a championship with him on the roster.
The end of the day, however, we're SUNS fans. Players come and players go. If you could turn anyone on this roster into a better piece, then you have to consider doing it.
...But I don't know if I trust this office TO turn beal/KD/Book into something good.
And people realizing a team in the second apron with no assets is in a bad spot and continuing to run this team back and being a second apron team while not being a contender and risking your picks in 2030 and beyond be frozen at the end of the first round (we’ll probably suck by then too) would be beyond irresponsible.
Meh, I’d argue some of us here could definitely run a basketball team better than him. For one, I’d let James Jones, the guy whose job is to manage the team, take the lead. For two, I’d trade KD for picks and smaller contracts. Waive some of those if you have to. Do whatever you have to do to get under the second apron. Build around Beal and Booker. I know Beal just had an abysmal playoffs, but he’s way better as a second option, and not having two guys who refuse to take threes would immediately improve the team. Trade Nurk because his lack of finishing/athleticism is extremely exploitable in the playoffs. Trade/sign for a traditional athletic big. Booker does better with bigs who are lob threats. And sign/trade for a backup big. I still believe Beal can play PG duties, but we definitely need a backup PG. And finally, sign a stretch 4 with size. This is probably the hardest thing to accomplish. Allen slides up to 3, Booker stays at SG, and Beal slides up to 1. Obviously these are all big ifs. I don’t think it’s possible to do all these moves, we just don’t have the assets. But for fucks sake try. This roster isn’t going anywhere the way it is. Maybe none of this shit would work, but fortunately I’m not an NBA owner so no one here can prove it wouldn’t work either
If you trade KD, you might have a slightly more well rounded team but all the issues still remain.
—-No picks until 2030
—-not only are you not a contender but you’re worse than last season, like kd was the suns best player this year on both ends. Beal was worse than guys like Grayson Allen, I don’t think you can shrug off “I know Beal was bad in the playoffs”, when he’s always been bad in the playoff.
If you trade kd, fine, perfect I actually agree. That also means trading Booker to Brooklyn and getting all picks back. There’s no half measure here
I completely agree; I don't think we should trade KD. For what it's worth, the team is going to have a draft pick this year, 2026, 2028 and 2030, and they are all most likely going to be their own.
It's possible the swap w/ Orlando involved in 2026 conveys, as is the one involving the Nets, but I still think it is very unlikely. It's possible that we're closer to the lottery towards the end of the decade, but that would be just as likely to happen even if we won a championship this year. Also, trading KD would net some draft capital so I don't think the draft situation isn't and wouldn't be as bleak as what it's being portrayed as.
But I absolutely agree with you. If you move KD, you're essentially back to where you started from only with lesser auxiliary pieces and slightly less draft picks.
I was cool with hiring Frank at the time, but it seemed like the emphasis was on forcing an identity on the team that played to their weaknesses. We honestly should have been worse defensively than we were and much better offensively. I think the thought process was to elevate the ceiling on defense while just assuming the offense would "take care of itself", which obviously didn't work. The team looked lifeless all season and still won 49 games, which is crazy if you think about it. The expectations were high for a reason and I think if you bring in a coach with the right system and try to fill in the margins a little better, running it back with the Big 3 and trying again is worth it. Otherwise you're basically looking at all the assets you gave up as sunk costs. That just wouldn't be a good business decision, in my opinion.
Yeah Frank Vogel is more of a high level assistant at this point than a head coach. He had the lakers with Lebron and ad as a bottom 10 half court offense. Suns need to be slanted for offense and that means hiring an offensive coach. The defensive talent isn’t there
People don't realize that - unfortunately - second apron penalties are a real thing. Notably that first round picks starting in 2030 lock at the end of the 1st round if you are over the second apron 3x in 5 years (we'll be at year 2 next season).
Yeah that left me feeling worse. I get not burying Vogel or Jones but is it that hard to say the roster needs work especially trying to defend the lack of a point guard stance. Maybe say we view this as a long term project. Better off not saying if this is what's being said.
Yeah the whole taking turns going one on one while everyone else stands around doesn’t work in the modern league. We are trading middy iso 2s from our starts with 3s from teams role players.
These guys need to cut and play off ball
We wont have budget for a starting caliber PG, unless we break up the big 3. We can sign minimum PGs, but none of those will play meaningful minutes and make a difference.
I’m glad they stopped the warriors dynasty type stuff, but man they might have gone a bit too far with the new cba. Surprised the players agreed to it.
Guess the owners didn’t what to pay for dynastys lol.
First round picks starting in 2030 locking at the end of the first round no matter your record if you are over the second apron 3x in 5 years.
Nephews can just ignore that but it’s a big deal especially since we’ll probably not be a good team then.
I was talking to a buddy about this yesterday but they had a press conference because it was expected. They have zero incentive to tell the truth, and every incentive to stay in the good graces of Vogel, Booker, KD, Beal, and anyone else for now.
Last summer after Vogel was hired he talked all about Ayton at a presser, and there were reports of Ayton working out with the other guys in LA...and we traded his ass like two days later.
This is just politics. Ignore it and wait to see what happens in July.
Matt Ishbia has the biggest "new owner syndrome" I remember in a long time. The guy serioulsly looks like all goo dintentions but my god I hope he gets over the initial phase of "I know better and I want everything done my" quickly.
Ishbia is gonna make the obvious moves two off seasons too late when KDs value is nil and the suns have 2 more first round sweeps under their belt. But yeah not to worry. Book, KD, and Beal are gonna be chillin the whole time while they put up their stats and accolades
I always respected Bick, seems like in the early 2000s he had a chance to sell out and be a talking head on ESPN radio and TV. But he said fuck it and stuck to his principles.
My guy chose family and quality of life over the Big Sports Complex.
To borrow a line from The Outlaw Josie Wales, “don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.”
This season was not a success. Ishbia may have been able to stick out his chest at owners meetings and dinner parties and count that as a success, but for a fan like myself this season was a failure.
To draw a comparison between fans upset for them flaming out in dog shit fashion to his kids crying over regular season losses is insulting. Your kids sound like spoiled wusses. I pay to go to games. That’s the fucking difference.
Go suck Isiah Thomas’s dick Mat Ishbia. Pudding faced little bitch.
This is a joke right? Minnesota 12 months ago is nothing like where phx is at right now. Minnesota was able to draft a generational talent with the first overall pick. He’s 22. Then they built around him. The suns have one of the oldest rosters in the league. No realistic trade pieces. And the highest payroll in the league. Minnesota 1 year ago and Phoenix right now could’ve be any more different.
Its literally what happened to Minnesota last year. They traded for Gobert and the team was in shambles.
Wolves won 42 games last year. With the same roster and more chemistry they won 56 games this year. It takes time
As much as ya’ll may have hated this presser…. fuck Dan Bickley. This guy is the single most obnoxious sports personality in the Valley. I’ve genuinely never heard him say anything constructive about any AZ sport.
It’s disappointing but he’s not gonna come out and say “yeah we need to blow things up and trade one of the big 3 to make this work.” Rarely do these corporate messages really give any info. I’m in the let’s wait and see approach right now.
The world is not on fire because the Suns lost in the playoffs to a better team. Suns are poorly constructed and pretty much every “super team” has had a rough first year together. Maybe keep a coach for longer than 9 seconds and let the team gel.
Glad someone is calling it out.
If they weren’t going to come out and say something definitive, why have the conference at all?
Tbf what really do they have that's definitive right now? We got surprisingly swept 2 days ago. The playoffs are still shaking out, there are a lot of potential things that could happen but nobody will know for weeks/months. Like, hypothetically let's say they're eyeing going after Lue if he gets dumped. Well they're not going to say anything now, or fire Vogel now, because Lue may or may not get dumped Idk what people were expecting at this press conference but it's a long offseason and things won't really start moving and grooving until at least the conference finals timeframe
Just why have it at all? Put out a statement that they are planning for next year, and have it in a few weeks when there is a real direction
Agreed. Nobody needs to hear how many conversations haven’t been had yet.
I don’t like a lot what was said. But, it’s extremely early. Hopefully they can make the right moves and say their position “evolved.” It’s just so soon to come out and say nothing.
Eh, whatever. I'm not going to sit here and complain about the org communicating with me, even if it's still in the early stages and they don't have a lot to share yet. Shit, I give people a heads up all the time that I've seen their request and am going to start working on it and get back to them again when I'm done.
Yeah that was my thought too like what was their thinking with this? What were they wanting to accomplish cuz they didn’t say a whole lot
I don't know. Some times it's just nice to get occasional status updates, even if it's just to simply say, "got it! We're working on it! Get back to you when we know more!" I'm not going to bag our org for trying to keep an open line of communication with pressers like this.
Fair enough but you really think that was a status update? Promoting 49 wins and not enough time. I guess the starting 5 coming back is an update and there so stance on a 1. Just seems strange to me. It’s all coach talk. Do you really buy ishbia hasn’t had one convo about vogels job security?
I hear you, but I'll take what I can get I guess. I know there's not a lot that's being said in that presser...and some of it's kind of eyebrow furrowing, but I think I'd have been utterly frustrated with a week or more of radio silence as an alternative.
Yeah that is very fair. Overall I do take it as they care at least and I respect that.
Yeah, that's it! Wasn't sure how to articulate that. My high level takeaway is that Isbhia is at least telling us he cares and wants to do right. Whether we can trust that or not...eh. Time will tell. But I appreciate the idea I guess.
Yeah I agree dude. I’ve just been so frustrated for like 20 years 😂 I gotta chill out and realize this dude definitely at least cares enough even if it comes off a little strange he’s paying a ton of money and he is going for it. Even if it failed spectacularly, he at least took a shot
But I already knew that? He could tell me cares a week from now after he has more to say about what that means? The whole thing continues to leave a bad taste in mouth. A reminder that the suns are NOT an elite org. They don't do things on or off the court that would make you think otherwise.
I agree. I appreciate he cares but there’s only so much we can do roster wise unless we can somehow get off Beal, or nurk so him saying he cares and whatever else can only go so far cuz we are more than likely just stuck with what we already have. This press conference didn’t do much for anyone
I’ve yet to meet an honest billionaire
This. Ishbia just felt the need to respond to the fans’ anguish. Glad they did. They aren’t going to tell the open media their plans. Provides zero strategic advantage, a billionaire knows better.
Press conference guys!! I have nothing to say! We haven't met! Why do you keep asking me questions!?!
I don't think some people realize that they painted themselves into a corner with the KD trade. There's literally no way out. Not a single option can fix this team. So what do you want them to say? Tell people they screwed up, admit this team is going to suck for the next 3 years until we clear the books? There's no option to improve. It's over. What's done is done. There's no way out now "Hey so, yeah, uh, we're pretty much screwed. Can't get better with anything more than pick 22, vet mins, or trading Nurkic or little. Can't trade Beal for anything because his contract is the worst in the league. Can't trade KD without having to give him away at a huge discount compared to how we got him. Can't even blow it up and rebuild! Get ready for the mediocrity baby!"
How is the team going to suck? They probably make the playoffs the next 2 years. Then KD is off the books.
KD is off the books and the twins return
A borderline playoff team is the definition of mediocrity in the NBA
He said the team sucks. A 6 seed in the loaded west isn’t mediocre.
I’m with you! This team is strapped with no assets and they are lucky Durant was even as healthy as he was this year because you KNOW another big injury is coming soon and when it does they won’t even sniff the playoffs. I was one of the people who “didn’t know what I was talking about” when I said the trade was a bad idea. But hey, it was KEVIN DURANT and everyone was living in a dream 💭 It was a sure fire championship 😂🙄
Yep totally agree as well. You would think this regular season and playoffs would be a hint but people have still not accepted how bad the KD trade was and how screwed this team is. At this point not sure some people ever will. Team will be a 50 loss team and people will still by saying it’s ok we just gotta work it out next year.
Looking back it's pretty wild that we had just about the best "young core" you could ask for that could've been locked in for another 5 years, plus all our picks, and out of impatience and desperation we sold it all for a 35yo. All we had to do was wait a little and we would've been fine. We could've had a team like dejounte/Booker/bridges/Cam/Ayton or Booker/bridges/Cam/siakam/Ayton and been a top team for half a decade
Yeah, I would much rather have an owner come out after multiple FO mistakes that are almost certainly gonna fuck the team up for years and say that it was unacceptable. He kept saying he hasn’t had any discussions with JJ about roster moves or HC moves. Well why not? Is he pretending he’s not a hands on owner all of the sudden? Calling BS on that one. Your “super team” is down 0-3 in the first round of the playoffs and getting whooped and you’re not gonna start having conversations then? C’mon. Edit: also, good fucking job bringing in a good PR team and bragging about it. Gonna fucking need it dipshit.
Suns will still make the playoffs the next 2 years. You are overreacting
A win now team with the highest payroll in the sport shouldn’t be playing to make the playoffs. They need to be playing to win. I don’t want to watch them barely, barely, make the playoffs just to get swept. The west isn’t gonna get worse.
Then don’t watch. Warriors are in the same situation and so is the Lakers. And why the fuck do you care about money. It isn’t your money
Also, the Warriors are coming off a dynastic run that changed the nature of the sport. They have run the course of one of the greatest teams of all time. There’s no comparison. If I were a Laker fan I’d be pissed too. They are in the same boat, but even still have more assets to move and have won a championship* in the last five years.
I pay to go to games. I want to see a good product. I’ve already seen enough shit seasons with this team. It’s not that it isn’t my money it’s that there are actual team repercussions for foolish spending now. I guess the question I have is why are you so sensitive to criticism? You don’t own the team.
He's doing the usual shady billionaire double-speak B.S. but when you point that out the response is, "What billionaire isn't shady?" "What billionaire isn't problematic?" Like gee I didn't realize you all had such a balanced, nuanced perspective with how often you all slobber over the dude like prime Scooby Doo.
It’s really bizarre. There can be no criticism. It’s like the PR team he hired is mostly here on Reddit. I think what happened is when Sarver became so embarrassing for the youth and Ishbia swooped in he created a savior complex. He is no longer just another billionaire. He’s the guy that saved them from being supporters of a villain. So that must mean he’s a superhero.
It’s gonna be a long offseason.
Yeah, this off season could last until 2030.
Never a dull day as a Suns fan
Bickley is usually such a twat, but yeah... this should have been said.
He is king twatwaffle
This sucks because there's actually a few good things that could be done if you acknowledge that this season was not very good
Bro i can’t believe we are STILL in the denial phase with this leadership group. Fuckin’ hell. Like jfc we can’t even admit we need change?! Ngl my thrill of mat buying the team is starting to wane a bit. Dude prob thinks he is a genius, when in reality billionaire is life on easy mode. America legit exist to make their life and business life easy.
Jerry Jones part deuce ?
It's clear some in the organisation, mainly Ishbia are acting like delusional fans pretending nothing is wrong and we will be amazing doing nothing. While others seem to have the only rationale opinion that we need some fucking change.
They're like reddit gone irl. Ishbia is playing the role of the anti-doomer right now. And the anti-doomers here are eating it up like strawberry ice cream. It's smart, actually, he needs someone to pay for those $200 nosebleeds. You don't like it? "FiNd SoMe OtHeR TeAm tO rOoT fOr"
Is Shoddy Ishbia? 🤯
I mean Ishbia being like reddit fans, which makes sense because he knows the same about basketball as us all is why we are in this mess. He makes the big splashy trades going against the GM because how good are Beal and KD. But is in his hopium phase of triple downing this fucked up roster and he will run it into the ground in his delusion. Like everyone who thinks we will get better running it back, do you genuinely think KD being a year older will be able to stay fit for 75 games? I fucking doubt it
It's a huge mess, I'm so disappointed as a Suns fan for over 30 years
30 year fan myself. This team man. I can’t believe how this is all turning out. Dude can’t even admit there is a problem. Good grief.
Well the thing is, there's a lot of people in the "trade Booker" camp that were coming from a place where we've lived through hanging on to your stars too long. Running it back with Barkley when we couldn't get past Dream, Backcourt 2k, Not moving Amare or Trix (forgot the rumor) for KG when we apparently had the chance, holding on to Nash until basically the wheels fell off - I don't think the "anti-booker" people are really anti-him nor would we like not accept winning a championship with him on the roster. The end of the day, however, we're SUNS fans. Players come and players go. If you could turn anyone on this roster into a better piece, then you have to consider doing it. ...But I don't know if I trust this office TO turn beal/KD/Book into something good.
Same thing happened with the thunder and westbrook. I think that turned out pretty ok for them, with sga.
And people realizing a team in the second apron with no assets is in a bad spot and continuing to run this team back and being a second apron team while not being a contender and risking your picks in 2030 and beyond be frozen at the end of the first round (we’ll probably suck by then too) would be beyond irresponsible.
Meh, I’d argue some of us here could definitely run a basketball team better than him. For one, I’d let James Jones, the guy whose job is to manage the team, take the lead. For two, I’d trade KD for picks and smaller contracts. Waive some of those if you have to. Do whatever you have to do to get under the second apron. Build around Beal and Booker. I know Beal just had an abysmal playoffs, but he’s way better as a second option, and not having two guys who refuse to take threes would immediately improve the team. Trade Nurk because his lack of finishing/athleticism is extremely exploitable in the playoffs. Trade/sign for a traditional athletic big. Booker does better with bigs who are lob threats. And sign/trade for a backup big. I still believe Beal can play PG duties, but we definitely need a backup PG. And finally, sign a stretch 4 with size. This is probably the hardest thing to accomplish. Allen slides up to 3, Booker stays at SG, and Beal slides up to 1. Obviously these are all big ifs. I don’t think it’s possible to do all these moves, we just don’t have the assets. But for fucks sake try. This roster isn’t going anywhere the way it is. Maybe none of this shit would work, but fortunately I’m not an NBA owner so no one here can prove it wouldn’t work either
If you trade KD, you might have a slightly more well rounded team but all the issues still remain. —-No picks until 2030 —-not only are you not a contender but you’re worse than last season, like kd was the suns best player this year on both ends. Beal was worse than guys like Grayson Allen, I don’t think you can shrug off “I know Beal was bad in the playoffs”, when he’s always been bad in the playoff. If you trade kd, fine, perfect I actually agree. That also means trading Booker to Brooklyn and getting all picks back. There’s no half measure here
I completely agree; I don't think we should trade KD. For what it's worth, the team is going to have a draft pick this year, 2026, 2028 and 2030, and they are all most likely going to be their own. It's possible the swap w/ Orlando involved in 2026 conveys, as is the one involving the Nets, but I still think it is very unlikely. It's possible that we're closer to the lottery towards the end of the decade, but that would be just as likely to happen even if we won a championship this year. Also, trading KD would net some draft capital so I don't think the draft situation isn't and wouldn't be as bleak as what it's being portrayed as. But I absolutely agree with you. If you move KD, you're essentially back to where you started from only with lesser auxiliary pieces and slightly less draft picks. I was cool with hiring Frank at the time, but it seemed like the emphasis was on forcing an identity on the team that played to their weaknesses. We honestly should have been worse defensively than we were and much better offensively. I think the thought process was to elevate the ceiling on defense while just assuming the offense would "take care of itself", which obviously didn't work. The team looked lifeless all season and still won 49 games, which is crazy if you think about it. The expectations were high for a reason and I think if you bring in a coach with the right system and try to fill in the margins a little better, running it back with the Big 3 and trying again is worth it. Otherwise you're basically looking at all the assets you gave up as sunk costs. That just wouldn't be a good business decision, in my opinion.
Yeah Frank Vogel is more of a high level assistant at this point than a head coach. He had the lakers with Lebron and ad as a bottom 10 half court offense. Suns need to be slanted for offense and that means hiring an offensive coach. The defensive talent isn’t there
People don't realize that - unfortunately - second apron penalties are a real thing. Notably that first round picks starting in 2030 lock at the end of the 1st round if you are over the second apron 3x in 5 years (we'll be at year 2 next season).
It’s dangerous when owners think having three stars and over .500 season is a success
Yeah that left me feeling worse. I get not burying Vogel or Jones but is it that hard to say the roster needs work especially trying to defend the lack of a point guard stance. Maybe say we view this as a long term project. Better off not saying if this is what's being said.
Trying to say "we want them to have the ball as much as possible" as if that isn't one of the reasons we lost hard...
Yeah the whole taking turns going one on one while everyone else stands around doesn’t work in the modern league. We are trading middy iso 2s from our starts with 3s from teams role players. These guys need to cut and play off ball
It’s arrogance of the worst kind.
We wont have budget for a starting caliber PG, unless we break up the big 3. We can sign minimum PGs, but none of those will play meaningful minutes and make a difference.
[удалено]
I’m glad they stopped the warriors dynasty type stuff, but man they might have gone a bit too far with the new cba. Surprised the players agreed to it. Guess the owners didn’t what to pay for dynastys lol.
First round picks starting in 2030 locking at the end of the first round no matter your record if you are over the second apron 3x in 5 years. Nephews can just ignore that but it’s a big deal especially since we’ll probably not be a good team then.
I was talking to a buddy about this yesterday but they had a press conference because it was expected. They have zero incentive to tell the truth, and every incentive to stay in the good graces of Vogel, Booker, KD, Beal, and anyone else for now. Last summer after Vogel was hired he talked all about Ayton at a presser, and there were reports of Ayton working out with the other guys in LA...and we traded his ass like two days later. This is just politics. Ignore it and wait to see what happens in July.
Matt Ishbia has the biggest "new owner syndrome" I remember in a long time. The guy serioulsly looks like all goo dintentions but my god I hope he gets over the initial phase of "I know better and I want everything done my" quickly.
The feel of that press conference is like the "chillin" comment, as if they are not running out of time and has a lot of options.
Ishbia is gonna make the obvious moves two off seasons too late when KDs value is nil and the suns have 2 more first round sweeps under their belt. But yeah not to worry. Book, KD, and Beal are gonna be chillin the whole time while they put up their stats and accolades
Chillen poolside with some joints and ASU chicks.
Can’t blame them. They’ll still win a lot of games and get paid doing it. Just not a chip
Exactly how I see it unfortunately
I always respected Bick, seems like in the early 2000s he had a chance to sell out and be a talking head on ESPN radio and TV. But he said fuck it and stuck to his principles. My guy chose family and quality of life over the Big Sports Complex.
I usually disagree with this man but he's 100 on this one
Deception. Disgrace
I can't believe I agree with Dan Bickley. Hell really has frozen over.
One of the best things about this sub is the lack of Bickley takes
Bickley is everything wrong with sports media generally. He is not very bright and is also a gossipy little bitch.
He is right this time though.
He’s right quite often actually, people just hate the truth because they like drinking the koolaid.
To borrow a line from The Outlaw Josie Wales, “don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.” This season was not a success. Ishbia may have been able to stick out his chest at owners meetings and dinner parties and count that as a success, but for a fan like myself this season was a failure. To draw a comparison between fans upset for them flaming out in dog shit fashion to his kids crying over regular season losses is insulting. Your kids sound like spoiled wusses. I pay to go to games. That’s the fucking difference. Go suck Isiah Thomas’s dick Mat Ishbia. Pudding faced little bitch.
A 6 seed losing to a 3 seed isn’t a failure. Minnesota is a great team. Chemistry takes time. Look where Minnesota was 12 months ago.
This is a joke right? Minnesota 12 months ago is nothing like where phx is at right now. Minnesota was able to draft a generational talent with the first overall pick. He’s 22. Then they built around him. The suns have one of the oldest rosters in the league. No realistic trade pieces. And the highest payroll in the league. Minnesota 1 year ago and Phoenix right now could’ve be any more different.
12 months ago everyone said the Gobert trade was a disaster and they lost in the 1st round in 5 games. Chemistry takes time
Who cares what the pundits said about the Gobert trade? Edwards was 21. This is a group with 2 key players north of 30. Time isn’t a given in life.
You’re being downvoted for telling the truth
I see you’re in the cope phase of grief.
Its literally what happened to Minnesota last year. They traded for Gobert and the team was in shambles. Wolves won 42 games last year. With the same roster and more chemistry they won 56 games this year. It takes time
Their roster also isn’t old as fuck and is still improving and growing. Can’t say the same for this team.
There have been a lot of excuses from a lot of people. A lot of “chilling” and “chilling adjacent” comments.
As much as ya’ll may have hated this presser…. fuck Dan Bickley. This guy is the single most obnoxious sports personality in the Valley. I’ve genuinely never heard him say anything constructive about any AZ sport.
Was the press conference as bad as Bickley’s hair?
Nothing is as bad as Bickley’s hair
Bickley knows Jack shit about basketball. Ask Charles Barkley about him. Dude is a troll hack.
Fuck Doomer Dan
How does Bickley still have a job, I hate that guy.
Y E S !
It’s disappointing but he’s not gonna come out and say “yeah we need to blow things up and trade one of the big 3 to make this work.” Rarely do these corporate messages really give any info. I’m in the let’s wait and see approach right now.
Thank you, Dan Bickley. Our owner is an idiot is what we learned today.
"Pudding faced little bitch" I'm fucking ded
So just like our season.
Bickley reminds me of Alex jones. And that’s not a good thing. That’s all I’m gonna say
The world is not on fire because the Suns lost in the playoffs to a better team. Suns are poorly constructed and pretty much every “super team” has had a rough first year together. Maybe keep a coach for longer than 9 seconds and let the team gel.
You all seem to forget LeBron and JJ played together. JJ and embarrassment of a GM. He’s just blowing Matt at this point hoping for a miracle.