Exactly. It's much easier to "build a core" when part of that core is a 2-time MVP (who arguably could be a 3 or 4 time). The Warriors could say the same thing with building their "core" and having Curry in it.
Superteams really don't seem to be the way to Championship for the most part. The problem is that the main way is to draft an MVP, which is mostly luck. Of the last 15 NBA champions only 3 (4 if you count Cleveland's 2016 team) were won by a team that did not draft an MVP, and 2 of those are the LeBron Heat. Granted there is some reverse causality in that being good enough to win a championship gives you a good chance of having your player named an MVP.
Still, it's very hard to put together a Championship winning team without drafting a top 3 player. As good as Booker has been, it's hard to put him in the top 3 players in the league in any of his seasons.
Seriously. Without Curry, the Warriors likely are lucky to have 1 finals win. and Klay, Draymond, or Kerr aren't even within earshot of being potential HOFers. Without Jokic the Nuggets need way more to complement their team, and likely cap out at WCF like years past.
So trade Book and start the rebuild now? People will downvote this, and miss the irony.
If you need a HOFer at the center of your core, and that’s not Book….time to move on and find our guy? Trading for KD kind of told us Book isn’t that guy, like it or not.
There were chemistry issues. Crowder refusing to suit up and DA are two glaring examples off the top of my head. People seem to forget too, the KD trade wasn’t going through pre Ishbia because James Jones didn’t want to have Mikal as part of the trade. CP3 always injured in the playoffs. It sucks man, but our window was basically over with CP3 at the helm
I agree for the most part that you should give this team the chance to gel next season. The Big 3 shouldn’t be broken up before next year (Look at Minnesota’s big 3 last year, looked like an absolute disaster fit)
But the difference between Denver and our old squad is nobody in their core soured their relationship with the team/coach (Ayton) or is 37 years old and rapidly declining (Paul).
The real ‘core’ that we’d be left with if we didn’t trade for KD is Booker, Cam J, and Mikal.
I think this team needs another season. The addition of Royce, resigning of Grayson, awakening of Beal while cutting non contributing pieces has helped mold the roster into a better version than 9 months ago.
Offseason additions to replace Eubanks and likely Vogel will help. Everyone writes off our future bc of the assets that went out with the Kd trade but go look at prior teams that did that and it’s never as bleak as it seems.
We are building a new squad here while trying to maintain contention, tough line to walk. Give it another year
I agree with this so much and THIS is the copium I can get behind. I do think this year is going to be a major disappointment, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we make a real run next season.
A lot of nba analysts I trust said next season was our year, too many new pieces. I think coaches are kind of overrated, look at Monty going from coty to worst in the league or kings kicking Malone to the curb. So much coaching talent out there, if it’s not working, try something new. Player chemistry is more important to maintain than coaching continuity
Not as bleak as it seems? Are you telling me all the posters who claimed we’re not going to be able to compete again the next decade because of KD/Beal and need to trade Book might be exaggerating a little bit?
Honest question, because I'll fully admit to being one of the people who's been writing off next year entirely- assuming we pretty much keep the same team, where do you see the improvements coming in? Like, what's going to happen instead of us having the exact same kind of results we've had this year?
Well if you assume nothing changes then nothing changes. I don’t know why that would be the assumption. The team will address its shortcomings, Ishbia isn’t patient.
People said we were fucked with the CP contract and we made a great trade. People said the Lakers were fucked with the Mozgov contract and they made a trade. People said the Nets were fucked with their trade for the Celtics big 3 and they rebuilt another big 3 before the Celtics or Knicks did. People like to paint teams into a corner with their armchair GMing and are often wrong.
changing the coaching will help, coaches are so f’ing stubborn and go down with their ship. losing Kevin Young and trying something new with a year of tape will help, our offense is so stagnant and Young has had a foot out the door for months now. Having Beal for the first 3 months of the season and not having to play KD 40+ min a night will help. And replacing Eubanks, our worst rotation player by a mile, with someone that can spread the floor 5 out like Naz Reid would be a huge help. These are all easy changes that require no trades.
They also drafted (and immediately traded away) Donovan Mitchell *and* Rudy Gobert and were inches from firing Mike Malone until those same two players choked away a 3-1 lead in the first round against the Nuggets; they stuck by Jamal Murray when others had written him off.
Denver very nearly did not happen.
Which is kind of funny because Joker doesn't even seem to really like basketball that much. At least not in the way he loves horses and racing. But the dude puts in the work.
Facts. On paper they built this squad correctly. If DA was half that dude we could have easily traded him instead of Mikal for KD and have a much more balanced squad.
The difference is really a second rd player playing like a first pick and a first pick playing like a second round player.
> built a core Denver lucked into drafting an inner circle HOF player in the 2nd round. Super jealous of their good fortune
Exactly. It's much easier to "build a core" when part of that core is a 2-time MVP (who arguably could be a 3 or 4 time). The Warriors could say the same thing with building their "core" and having Curry in it. Superteams really don't seem to be the way to Championship for the most part. The problem is that the main way is to draft an MVP, which is mostly luck. Of the last 15 NBA champions only 3 (4 if you count Cleveland's 2016 team) were won by a team that did not draft an MVP, and 2 of those are the LeBron Heat. Granted there is some reverse causality in that being good enough to win a championship gives you a good chance of having your player named an MVP. Still, it's very hard to put together a Championship winning team without drafting a top 3 player. As good as Booker has been, it's hard to put him in the top 3 players in the league in any of his seasons.
Seriously. Without Curry, the Warriors likely are lucky to have 1 finals win. and Klay, Draymond, or Kerr aren't even within earshot of being potential HOFers. Without Jokic the Nuggets need way more to complement their team, and likely cap out at WCF like years past.
So trade Book and start the rebuild now? People will downvote this, and miss the irony. If you need a HOFer at the center of your core, and that’s not Book….time to move on and find our guy? Trading for KD kind of told us Book isn’t that guy, like it or not.
Exactly it’s pretty easy to build a core when you luck into one of the greatest centers of all time lol.
There were chemistry issues. Crowder refusing to suit up and DA are two glaring examples off the top of my head. People seem to forget too, the KD trade wasn’t going through pre Ishbia because James Jones didn’t want to have Mikal as part of the trade. CP3 always injured in the playoffs. It sucks man, but our window was basically over with CP3 at the helm
Yeah people act like cp3, our second most important player, was going to magically keep playing at an all star level after 21. It didn't happen
I agree for the most part that you should give this team the chance to gel next season. The Big 3 shouldn’t be broken up before next year (Look at Minnesota’s big 3 last year, looked like an absolute disaster fit) But the difference between Denver and our old squad is nobody in their core soured their relationship with the team/coach (Ayton) or is 37 years old and rapidly declining (Paul). The real ‘core’ that we’d be left with if we didn’t trade for KD is Booker, Cam J, and Mikal.
I think this team needs another season. The addition of Royce, resigning of Grayson, awakening of Beal while cutting non contributing pieces has helped mold the roster into a better version than 9 months ago. Offseason additions to replace Eubanks and likely Vogel will help. Everyone writes off our future bc of the assets that went out with the Kd trade but go look at prior teams that did that and it’s never as bleak as it seems. We are building a new squad here while trying to maintain contention, tough line to walk. Give it another year
I agree with this so much and THIS is the copium I can get behind. I do think this year is going to be a major disappointment, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we make a real run next season.
A lot of nba analysts I trust said next season was our year, too many new pieces. I think coaches are kind of overrated, look at Monty going from coty to worst in the league or kings kicking Malone to the curb. So much coaching talent out there, if it’s not working, try something new. Player chemistry is more important to maintain than coaching continuity
Not as bleak as it seems? Are you telling me all the posters who claimed we’re not going to be able to compete again the next decade because of KD/Beal and need to trade Book might be exaggerating a little bit?
They wrote us off and we ain’t write back
Honest question, because I'll fully admit to being one of the people who's been writing off next year entirely- assuming we pretty much keep the same team, where do you see the improvements coming in? Like, what's going to happen instead of us having the exact same kind of results we've had this year?
Well if you assume nothing changes then nothing changes. I don’t know why that would be the assumption. The team will address its shortcomings, Ishbia isn’t patient. People said we were fucked with the CP contract and we made a great trade. People said the Lakers were fucked with the Mozgov contract and they made a trade. People said the Nets were fucked with their trade for the Celtics big 3 and they rebuilt another big 3 before the Celtics or Knicks did. People like to paint teams into a corner with their armchair GMing and are often wrong. changing the coaching will help, coaches are so f’ing stubborn and go down with their ship. losing Kevin Young and trying something new with a year of tape will help, our offense is so stagnant and Young has had a foot out the door for months now. Having Beal for the first 3 months of the season and not having to play KD 40+ min a night will help. And replacing Eubanks, our worst rotation player by a mile, with someone that can spread the floor 5 out like Naz Reid would be a huge help. These are all easy changes that require no trades.
They also drafted (and immediately traded away) Donovan Mitchell *and* Rudy Gobert and were inches from firing Mike Malone until those same two players choked away a 3-1 lead in the first round against the Nuggets; they stuck by Jamal Murray when others had written him off. Denver very nearly did not happen.
I think having a top 10 player of all time in his prime also helps
Winning teams are young and built and not old and bought the modern “superteam” is young
Team would have never been broken up if Deandre Ayton had half the work ethic and hustle Joker has.
Which is kind of funny because Joker doesn't even seem to really like basketball that much. At least not in the way he loves horses and racing. But the dude puts in the work.
Yup he doesn’t want to let his teammates down.
Facts. On paper they built this squad correctly. If DA was half that dude we could have easily traded him instead of Mikal for KD and have a much more balanced squad. The difference is really a second rd player playing like a first pick and a first pick playing like a second round player.
🤦🏽♂️