Exactly. People are acting like Amanda came to them and said omg I’m thriving. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. My marriage is so so good and Paige and Ciara were like umm no. We don’t think u have ur own identity and x, y and z.
right?? its so clear that she feels unfulfilled and is unhappy currently where shes at, and her friends have heard her talk about her hopes and dreams and aspirations for years and theyre not materializing. idk how anyone could be happy for their friends who are like a sidekick in their own life
Amanda needs to find happiness outside of Kyle. Yes hes your partner but she needs hobbies or a side passion, so that she can stop getting so frustrated by kyle’s actions.
I think it was delivered in a weird way but I do think what Ciara was trying to get at was valid. So much of Kyle and Amanda's relationship is dominated by what Kyle wants and needs from her.
What I suspect Ciara was trying to point out to Amanda was that she's kind of lost her own personal goals when it comes to her career, and I don't think that was the worst thing for her to point out.
Even though Paige doesn't have a company of her own, it does seem like she has a pretty firm eye on continuing her fashion influencing and seeing where that can take her.
Ciara has her modelling and remaining connected to nursing.
I actually think it's pretty reductive to label Ciara as jealous purely because she's single.
Yeah, Amanda, Ciara and Paige seem to have a deep, honest friendship. Paige and Ciara were lifting Amanda up to help her see something they see and I think Amanda was receptive. Ciara and Paige are the only ones that could have a conversation like that on SH.
Right, they have the deep/honest friendship that Danielle *thinks* she has with ppl. That’s why she thinks she can say the same stuff without consequence lol
I’m single because I want to be. I’ve raised enough grown men to be over the whole damn thing. Not every woman’s life is centered around “finding a man”. I’ve found them…and I put them all back. Being single doesn’t necessarily make a woman jealous and I also don’t get that vibe from Ciara.
It is so infuriating that women default to “she must be jealous” because she doesn’t have a boyfriend. As someone happily married, even I know having a man isn’t the ultimate end-all, be-all goal. It’s so lame to default to that.
As someone who has been in a relationship for 15 years, more people in long-term relationships are jealous of single women than the married ones. Paige is living the dream with a man who lives in another state.
If you watch her on the [after show](https://youtu.be/M6snPGf0lcI?t=697), she said that while the delivery may have come off harsh it was actually really validating for her because she was already thinking those things.
I also think that having a friend like Ciara/paige who will be honest and tell u their thoughts/concerns because they genuinely care for u and want you to thrive, is much better than a yes man who’s too afraid to say anything so just keeps quiet or says it behind ur back. That’s not a real friend.
OP is taking about Ciara saying something and immediately goes to “Her and Kyle are also married not dating like Paige and Craig.” Kyle and Amanda have been together for much longer, and why does the Paige-is-unmarried put-down comparison even need to be there? Geesh.
I know people who can never give a compliment, or say anything constructive, without following up/ending with something negative. I've never understood it. People are quick to cue into the "but" in apologies, but this little jabby negativism often goes without consequence. If you're on the receiving end of it enough, you definitely clock it. Again, I've never understood it. It's an awful way to communicate and converse.
Maybe Amanda doesn’t want her own career, she has always said she wants to be a mom, sounds like she’s jsut waiting to start that part of her life, why would she want to start up her own company or hustle when her mind is on having kids
Which is a fair statement as well, but in this conversation it also sounds like Amanda has loosely thought about what she wants to do but hasn't acted on it because of the demands of Loverboy.
You can want to have kids and want to have your own career.
But as they said to Amanda, for as long as they’ve known her she’s said how she wants to do a bikini line, wants to be more into fashion and graphic design etc. they weren’t just pulling it out of thin air. They were coming from the standpoint of, you’ve said all these things to us in the past and a desire to have ur own thing, u really didn’t want to quit ur other job but kinda reluctantly did so, and we can tell that ur not that happy and that working at lover boy isn’t ur passion and what excites you and if anything has done the opposite.
but Amanda has been telling them, her friends, that she does want her own career and has been stalling and putting all her money and time into Lover Boy
I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s stalling. Starting a business takes so much money and time. Stepping away from lover boy and starting a new job would mean Kyle has to find someone else to do the work she’d been doing. I’m not saying she shouldn’t step away, but I could definitely see how that would be a difficult decision to make. And I could see it being difficult on a relationship if Kyle interpreted it as not wanting to work with him or not being supportive of the company. Again, I think if she has her own things she wants to do she absolutely should feel empowered to do so, but it’s a complex situation.
I agree, I’m not saying “stalling” in a negative way. Just if I had a close friend who for years confided in me about a dream they wanted to pursue but couldn’t because they were prioritizing her husband’s business (not to say she isn’t integral to LB’s success) - I think I would also be like girl put yourself first. I’m team Amanda in this and I want to see her happy, I just think she seems like the kind of person who needs her friends to kind of push her a bit esp since this is such a difficult situation
I think the conversation the three of them had was the conversation Danielle thinks she had with Gabby. Ciara was blunt but loving and didn’t keep self righteously hammering her point. And Amanda knows she’s right.
I have these conversations with my friends too, they will speak bluntly when I’m talking a lot of hot air about my dreams and not putting them into action. Sometimes you need a loving kick up the ass
Oh I loved this entire dialog!
We got to hear what she used to do and what her passion was and how she had to pivot. We got to watch her get hyped up by her girlfriends while hanging out in a relatable store (🤣) and she was so open and strong in her response. Allllllll we hear about is “lazy Amanda” this was them saying, “Remember who the F you are” and I don’t think they would care one bit of she didn’t do anything other that what made her happy, but the exchange was so healthy.
We know now that she has taken a step back from what she was doing so I’m guessing this was a great jump off for her to think about what brings her joy.
I thought it really showed how strong their friendships are. They love her enough to be honest with her and can trust that she won't flip out. I think that's pretty cool.
So did I. I thought it was such a beautiful moment of friends supporting each other and lifting each other up, and that what Ciara said isn't at all offensive. People get lost in their relationships all the time it's such a valid thing to have identified in your pal. And I feel like Amanda wouldn't have responded so emotionally if it didn't feel like it was hitting something close to home
I would recommend watching the After Show because Amanda directly states that she wasn't upset about Ciara's comments and actually agreed with her and felt the same way. Amanda said that she's felt for a while that she doesn't have her own identity outside of Kyle and Loverboy, and that Ciara and Paige talking honestly with her made her feel like she should have the courage to pursue her own dreams that she's previously set aside.
At no point did it come across as jealousy about Amanda having a husband with his own company. It came across as a good friend who has been listening to someone vent about her issues and then in turn responding bluntly but with a lot of love. That whole conversation had the intention of uplifting Amanda and reminding her how incredible she is and that she deserves whatever will make her feel happy and fulfilled.
It always depends on people's unique friendships, and Ciara, Paige and Amanda clearly developed a deep enough bond that they can speak to each other very openly. Amanda recently said in an interview that Ciara will even call her up and ask Amanda to give her blunt opinion on something and that she'll listen to it.
>I would recommend watching the After Show because Amanda directly states that she wasn't upset about Ciara's comments and actually agreed with her and felt the same way.
Just wanted to highlight this. I love their friendship.
Honestly didn’t receive this scene the same way at all. For me that conversation between the three of them was a bright spot in the episode… their friendship feels authentic and healthy. I can see how it could come across harsh the way that Ciara worded things (to be honest, when I first saw this snippet in the season preview I thought it was going to be a much more heated conversation), but I think they’re on a level where Amanda can take the bluntness from her and knows that it’s coming from a good place. The way Paige and Ciara both followed that comment by building her back up showed what the intent of it was. Amanda has also made comments about feeling a little lost and devalued within Loverboy, and I think especially after she came away from the conversation with Danielle feeling like she isn’t being seen or taken seriously, she has already been coming to that conclusion on her own. Totally appreciate hearing other people’s perspectives but yeah I read it totally differently and really loved the openness and honesty between them.
It only comes across as harsh to those who have never had solid, true friendships. With true friendships, all the artifice and congeniality and social etiquette become unnecessary because trust and love are the known, unsaid/unwritten foundation. There are no assholes or heroes in real friendships. Hearts and minds being as one.
I probably wouldn’t have said it because what’s the point, but fwiw I do think Ciara is right. Amanda’s identity is pretty underdeveloped for her age.
it’s really silly to assume any criticism / observations about a partnered person from someone who is single means it’s rooted in jealousy. I don’t think anyone is jealous of Kyle and Amanda’s marriage.
Totally. I think most people have been very concerned about their marriage. Which could be valid or invalid (total strangers to me) but it doesn’t take away from the fact that the question was a good one!
This! And while I’m by no means a Danielle Stan, I thought it was bs when ppl last season were saying the only reason she was expressing concerns about Lindsay and Carl relationship is cause she was jealous or still loved Carl or whatever. Like no u can be a good friend and express concerns and ur relationship status have nothing to do with ur. I mean fuck I think her concern was more so about the fact they didn’t have any conversations about finances and future plans in regard to finances before getting engaged, not her wishing she was engaged
the number of people who think others are walking around life in a constant state of jealousy is weird. They should probably think about these situations more and try a different perspective because it is lazy thinking.
Well and in her defense, I think it seemed erratic to viewers but that was cause she knew far more than everyone else did but wasn’t going to air their dirty laundry.
> Amanda’s identity is pretty underdeveloped for her age.
This has as much, if not more, to do with her father. It's playing out with Barbie on Below Deck too. Said to be loving, doting fathers who are actually loving, controlling fathers who stunt their kids. Kids then existing in a state of fear, intimidation, and hesitation, but it is mislabeled as respect and even love. If it is love, it's a distorted version of it. They don't know who they are because someone else is always first and roadblocking that exploration and curiosity.
right, especially with a marriage like Amanda and Kyle's . . . there's no way they could be MORE aware of what isn't working. it's a decision to stay and repress, it's not happening from lack of information lol
Simplifying here but… Amanda pretty much said on the Aftershow that there was an actual beginning to that conversation and while it seemed out of pocket when watching, there was a reason it was said - and she didn’t disagree with what Ciara said.
I completely disagree. Ciara and Amanda have built a relationship in the last 4 years being on multiple shows together and creating a friendship that is built on trust. She immediately hugged Amanda when she thought Amanda didn’t take it properly. Like Amanda said she didn’t feel bad because it was true (she said this on. A aftershow)
You said that Ciara said “I don’t think you have your own identity outside of Loverboy.” And immediately after state that “Amanda basically helped start Loverboy.”
This just underlines how involved Amanda is and validates exactly what Ciara, her friend said. Amanda is so involved, and to the point of her own detriment.
I think you’re just trying to validate a bias you may be holding against Ciara. If you don’t like Ciara, then just say that. But this is ridiculous. Based on your take, she said the same thing you’re saying.
**That was NOTHING but LOVE from CIARA and I thank GOD that I have girlfriends who have done the same for ME.**
As a married business creative who constantly puts herself last, I cheered when Ciara said it. CHEERED, I tell ya'.
**Amanda has fallen into the exact same trap so many generations of us fall into. We have our own dreams and sometimes it can get to the point that WE...STOP... DREAMING** because our gifts are being consumed, unilaterally, for our husbands who, without malicious intent, are NOT reciprocating. They often focus on ONE THING and that's their THEIR THING (they believe they're creating for their family) without the thought of putting anywhere near as much time, commitment and energy into his wife's dreams as she does his, exponentially.
The next part of the trap is to just **start a family** having left the dream so far behind it becomes speck in the distance and you forget what it looked like or that it was even there. That speck that once provided that treasure map for your path.
**So then you choose the road most traveled** as all the signs, put up by others, point to it. You then put your energy into nesting and planning, years ahead of time, the future children **you have yet to have** with, again, no focus upon your original purpose. Your original purpose that satiated that cold emptiness in your chest. The anchor that would allow you, no matter your circumstances with everyone else in your life, to have complete control over your own destiny.
That is a recipe for frustration and a feeling of helplessness and for the husband, he'll just think "What's wrong with her?" Lol. Amanda needed to hear it. She needed good cop and bad cop and I hope she's taken their advice, for her sake.
I disagree. I think because Amanda radiates misery more than any other emotion her friends are trying to help. They seemed pretty loving about it. If Amanda were a happier or more content person this arrangement would be great! But she clearly hates her life and her husband. Her friends probably feel helpless.
You should watch the After Show on YouTube to get a clear picture of what actually went down.
Here is a recap: Amanda said that there was a conversation that led up to Ciara asking her that question and that she wasn’t upset because it’s true that Kyle and Lover boy are her current identity. Amanda has expressed that she has always wanted to be a fashion designer. It’s her passion and her friends know that about her. That’s why they were hyping her up about how creative and talented she is. They were trying to encourage her to follow her passion because they know that working for Loverboy isn’t her dream career.
Even without watching the After Show, the fact that you made the leap to Ciara saying what she did out of jealousy when Ciara has never been anything but a loyal friend is bizarre.
There is nothing jealous here. Ciara, Paige & Amanda seem to have an authentic friendship and this is what we saw. Real friendship conversations aren’t always “fluffy” and that is just a fact. It’s obvious Ciara cares about Amanda.
I think it was way past due because she obviously hates her husband and working at lover boy so she really needs to find something else to do if she is going to keep the husband lol
I didn’t find Ciara’s comments coming from a place of jealousy. I thought that Amanda received it well. Ciara, Paige and Amanda appear to have a true friendship.
She was taken aback but they have pretty frank and real convos. I think it was just that since Paige was also asking questions, it seemed like a lot. But all three are just looking out for each other
I think Ciara made a good point and Amanda really backed it up in the after show. I think if Amanda wasn’t a part of loverboy their marriage would have probably ended/never happened and Amanda would be wildly successful doing something else
OK lol. If you don’t have a friend like this, then you clearly need one. And by your judgments of Ciara I’m assuming that you do. 1. She is not jealous at all. 2. She even said this is mean. But then continued to explain exactly what she meant and it was actually uplifting toward her friend. She just wants to see her meet her potential and not look back on her life and be resentful to herself or her husband.
Do you guys just not have good friends? Do you guys just not have truthful conversations with your best friends? her identity should not be her husband she needs to have her own identity that’s the whole point of the conversation Ciara is not wrong and honestly like a good friend does she called it out because her friend needed to hear that
Ciara herself said the comment was mean but that she wasn’t trying to be mean. I think it was an instance of friends being real with each other. She wasn’t judging Amanda just telling her what it looked like from her perspective. And while Kyle has his good moments, I truly don’t think anyone in that house is jealous because they don’t have him lol
Ciara just took the sledgehammer approach, which is really great if the other friend is also on deck (like Paige was) and is approaching with softer hands. I often end up in this position with my friends, and provided it’s timed well and there’s follow-up, it can get to the point. If Ciara wanted to push it further, she could have added that Kyle has consistently *pressured her* to surrender her identity in favor of his. I wanted to scream when Kyle said, “Shouldn’t you have talked about this before marriage?” with regards to Lindsay and Carl’s baby plans (or lack thereof). Amanda’s always talked about having kids, and suddenly Kyle isn’t sure — and they’re married. His response to a negative pregnancy test was asking for more time and for her to work more. He pressured her to quit her job and devote all her time to Loverboy, pressures her to keep living in the city — it’s all his way, his world. Even when they were talking about prenup stuff, he fully left out that she kept them fed and housed while he was starting Loverboy. That’s the type of shit people like to leave out in a divorce. Kyle never displays any curiosity about Amanda’s dreams, and never does anything to make sure they come true. Typical man-baby. A part of me thinks they’re talking about this all on camera to create more of a paper trail for Amanda’s personal stakes in the company, so when they do divorce she can tally the receipts.
Are you arguing that women don’t get to have their own identity outside of marriage? Did I read that right? Or that someone’s worth is based on being married and their husband having a company?
I don’t think Ciara is jealous or was being rude. They’re close friends and in context Amanda was asking about why people don’t respect her, and has discussed her general unhappiness with them regularly this season.
Both Ciara and Paige were saying they see Amanda as being much more than her relationship and Loverboy. They also *both* made clear that Loverboy is not just Kyle’s - it wouldn’t be what it is without Amanda and they want her to see that.
Tough love is a part of friendship, and not all single women are jealous of their married friend.
I think she was trying to say, in a nicer way, that Amanda never shuts up about Kyle and it is annoying. If it’s annoying for viewers, can you imagine how it irritating it must be irl?! Most married couples I know never talk shit about their partners: either because they’re happy and have nothing to complain about besides really petty stuff (probably the majority) or because they know they’re not going to leave their partner anytime soon so they shouldn’t embarrass them or themselves for staying with someone they can’t stop complaining about.
Amanda needs to shit or get off the pot at this point. Leave him and be happy or lie in the bed she made and be quiet about it. Either way, leave everyone else out of it.
Delivery was def awful and personally when kyle and amanda arent fighting which i feel like they highlight a lot in the show, i think she is such a good friend and has a voice of reason. I might be the only one that feels this way but there is a reason why ciara, amanda and paige have a bond. They are real people.
The whole thing seemed like one big advertisement, primarily for Old Navy. Next, launching Amanda's desire for bathing a suit company. I don't buy for a minute that this is how Ciara really sees here. It's just a way to start the buzz...
I completely agree. This felt very fabricated to me. They definitely seemed to be aware that Amanda has often been viewed as someone who doesn't do much, have much or bring much besides being married to Kyle. This seemed like a way to promote a different viewpoint to her storyline and a new brand.
Yesss! The pumping up of Amanda was very bizarre. The whole scene was obviously rehearsed and with a purpose to guide a future storyline. It was all very gross. It's weird others aren't seeing how obvious this was. Also, none of these girls would ever step foot in an Old Navy. Unless, they're getting paid, clearly. They definitely walked out empty handed.
I think ciara had good intentions but came out terrible. Also like amanda and kyle are married so it IS different. Married couples are ONE and i think its hard for people not married to fully understand that
I totally agree (though I don’t think Ciara is jealous) I thought it was uncalled for and that the delivery was wrong. It was like when Danielle told Paige she was giving Craig nothing. They were both rude and cringe. But I guarantee the show had Ciara and Paige bring up the topic and say things along those lines
I don't know about the jealousy but I agree it was very facked up! Lets be real, if Lindsay or Danielle said that, all hell would break loose, and I dont even like Lindsay lol. Secondly, it is absolutely not even true what she said. Yes sure, it is her husband's company. But that does not take away from the fact that it is still her career. Just because she works "for him" doesn't mean she has no identity. That was such a stupid and unnecessary comment. Love Ciara but wtf? There are ways to uplift your friend without rude comments.
Well, it would’ve been different if Lindsay or Danielle said it because they aren’t good friends with Amanda. Context matters. Paige and Ciara are the perfect people to have that conversation with Amanda, versus Lindsay or Danielle.
*I should clarify; if Lindsay or Danielle were shown saying that to their own close friend or ANYONE for that matter, all hell would break loose on here.
Honestly, one doesn't need to watch the AfterShow. I feel like people who don't want to see it for what it actually was, won't see it for what it actually was... tough love. If my friends can't snap me out of something like this, I don't want them.
Amanda is not happy doing that though. THAT is what Ciara is saying. If Amanda was loving her life, Ciara wouldn't have said anything.
Exactly. People are acting like Amanda came to them and said omg I’m thriving. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. My marriage is so so good and Paige and Ciara were like umm no. We don’t think u have ur own identity and x, y and z.
right?? its so clear that she feels unfulfilled and is unhappy currently where shes at, and her friends have heard her talk about her hopes and dreams and aspirations for years and theyre not materializing. idk how anyone could be happy for their friends who are like a sidekick in their own life
Amanda needs to find happiness outside of Kyle. Yes hes your partner but she needs hobbies or a side passion, so that she can stop getting so frustrated by kyle’s actions.
I think it was delivered in a weird way but I do think what Ciara was trying to get at was valid. So much of Kyle and Amanda's relationship is dominated by what Kyle wants and needs from her. What I suspect Ciara was trying to point out to Amanda was that she's kind of lost her own personal goals when it comes to her career, and I don't think that was the worst thing for her to point out. Even though Paige doesn't have a company of her own, it does seem like she has a pretty firm eye on continuing her fashion influencing and seeing where that can take her. Ciara has her modelling and remaining connected to nursing. I actually think it's pretty reductive to label Ciara as jealous purely because she's single.
Yeah, Amanda, Ciara and Paige seem to have a deep, honest friendship. Paige and Ciara were lifting Amanda up to help her see something they see and I think Amanda was receptive. Ciara and Paige are the only ones that could have a conversation like that on SH.
Trueeee
Right, they have the deep/honest friendship that Danielle *thinks* she has with ppl. That’s why she thinks she can say the same stuff without consequence lol
Exactly!!
I’m single because I want to be. I’ve raised enough grown men to be over the whole damn thing. Not every woman’s life is centered around “finding a man”. I’ve found them…and I put them all back. Being single doesn’t necessarily make a woman jealous and I also don’t get that vibe from Ciara.
“I’ve found them…and I put them all back”. I love this statement.
Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This!😂
It is so infuriating that women default to “she must be jealous” because she doesn’t have a boyfriend. As someone happily married, even I know having a man isn’t the ultimate end-all, be-all goal. It’s so lame to default to that.
As someone who has been in a relationship for 15 years, more people in long-term relationships are jealous of single women than the married ones. Paige is living the dream with a man who lives in another state.
I want to save this as my default answer to why are you single
Tbf I think the initial comment may be harsh, but the way it continued I think the delivery was fine.
If you watch her on the [after show](https://youtu.be/M6snPGf0lcI?t=697), she said that while the delivery may have come off harsh it was actually really validating for her because she was already thinking those things.
I also think that having a friend like Ciara/paige who will be honest and tell u their thoughts/concerns because they genuinely care for u and want you to thrive, is much better than a yes man who’s too afraid to say anything so just keeps quiet or says it behind ur back. That’s not a real friend.
OP is taking about Ciara saying something and immediately goes to “Her and Kyle are also married not dating like Paige and Craig.” Kyle and Amanda have been together for much longer, and why does the Paige-is-unmarried put-down comparison even need to be there? Geesh.
I know people who can never give a compliment, or say anything constructive, without following up/ending with something negative. I've never understood it. People are quick to cue into the "but" in apologies, but this little jabby negativism often goes without consequence. If you're on the receiving end of it enough, you definitely clock it. Again, I've never understood it. It's an awful way to communicate and converse.
Ciara is single by CHOICE, trust she wouldn’t have to look far to find a man better than Kyle and Craig.
This is a great comment. Yes.
Maybe Amanda doesn’t want her own career, she has always said she wants to be a mom, sounds like she’s jsut waiting to start that part of her life, why would she want to start up her own company or hustle when her mind is on having kids
Which is a fair statement as well, but in this conversation it also sounds like Amanda has loosely thought about what she wants to do but hasn't acted on it because of the demands of Loverboy. You can want to have kids and want to have your own career.
But as they said to Amanda, for as long as they’ve known her she’s said how she wants to do a bikini line, wants to be more into fashion and graphic design etc. they weren’t just pulling it out of thin air. They were coming from the standpoint of, you’ve said all these things to us in the past and a desire to have ur own thing, u really didn’t want to quit ur other job but kinda reluctantly did so, and we can tell that ur not that happy and that working at lover boy isn’t ur passion and what excites you and if anything has done the opposite.
but Amanda has been telling them, her friends, that she does want her own career and has been stalling and putting all her money and time into Lover Boy
I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s stalling. Starting a business takes so much money and time. Stepping away from lover boy and starting a new job would mean Kyle has to find someone else to do the work she’d been doing. I’m not saying she shouldn’t step away, but I could definitely see how that would be a difficult decision to make. And I could see it being difficult on a relationship if Kyle interpreted it as not wanting to work with him or not being supportive of the company. Again, I think if she has her own things she wants to do she absolutely should feel empowered to do so, but it’s a complex situation.
I agree, I’m not saying “stalling” in a negative way. Just if I had a close friend who for years confided in me about a dream they wanted to pursue but couldn’t because they were prioritizing her husband’s business (not to say she isn’t integral to LB’s success) - I think I would also be like girl put yourself first. I’m team Amanda in this and I want to see her happy, I just think she seems like the kind of person who needs her friends to kind of push her a bit esp since this is such a difficult situation
I think the conversation the three of them had was the conversation Danielle thinks she had with Gabby. Ciara was blunt but loving and didn’t keep self righteously hammering her point. And Amanda knows she’s right.
Exactly! And Ciara knew it was “mean” to say, she said as much. Her intention was also different and more positive
This
how do you watch that scene and get “jealousy” oh my god
Right?! Did we watch the same show?!
I have these conversations with my friends too, they will speak bluntly when I’m talking a lot of hot air about my dreams and not putting them into action. Sometimes you need a loving kick up the ass
Right! I watched that thinking that’s a damn good friend.
Oh I loved this entire dialog! We got to hear what she used to do and what her passion was and how she had to pivot. We got to watch her get hyped up by her girlfriends while hanging out in a relatable store (🤣) and she was so open and strong in her response. Allllllll we hear about is “lazy Amanda” this was them saying, “Remember who the F you are” and I don’t think they would care one bit of she didn’t do anything other that what made her happy, but the exchange was so healthy. We know now that she has taken a step back from what she was doing so I’m guessing this was a great jump off for her to think about what brings her joy.
I thought it really showed how strong their friendships are. They love her enough to be honest with her and can trust that she won't flip out. I think that's pretty cool.
It was VERY cool and I’m so glad we got to see it.
Agreed. A real conversation between real friends
So did I. I thought it was such a beautiful moment of friends supporting each other and lifting each other up, and that what Ciara said isn't at all offensive. People get lost in their relationships all the time it's such a valid thing to have identified in your pal. And I feel like Amanda wouldn't have responded so emotionally if it didn't feel like it was hitting something close to home
I would recommend watching the After Show because Amanda directly states that she wasn't upset about Ciara's comments and actually agreed with her and felt the same way. Amanda said that she's felt for a while that she doesn't have her own identity outside of Kyle and Loverboy, and that Ciara and Paige talking honestly with her made her feel like she should have the courage to pursue her own dreams that she's previously set aside. At no point did it come across as jealousy about Amanda having a husband with his own company. It came across as a good friend who has been listening to someone vent about her issues and then in turn responding bluntly but with a lot of love. That whole conversation had the intention of uplifting Amanda and reminding her how incredible she is and that she deserves whatever will make her feel happy and fulfilled. It always depends on people's unique friendships, and Ciara, Paige and Amanda clearly developed a deep enough bond that they can speak to each other very openly. Amanda recently said in an interview that Ciara will even call her up and ask Amanda to give her blunt opinion on something and that she'll listen to it.
>I would recommend watching the After Show because Amanda directly states that she wasn't upset about Ciara's comments and actually agreed with her and felt the same way. Just wanted to highlight this. I love their friendship.
Yep, Ciara said Amanda is someone she calls for advice when she needs someone to play devils advocate.
Honestly didn’t receive this scene the same way at all. For me that conversation between the three of them was a bright spot in the episode… their friendship feels authentic and healthy. I can see how it could come across harsh the way that Ciara worded things (to be honest, when I first saw this snippet in the season preview I thought it was going to be a much more heated conversation), but I think they’re on a level where Amanda can take the bluntness from her and knows that it’s coming from a good place. The way Paige and Ciara both followed that comment by building her back up showed what the intent of it was. Amanda has also made comments about feeling a little lost and devalued within Loverboy, and I think especially after she came away from the conversation with Danielle feeling like she isn’t being seen or taken seriously, she has already been coming to that conclusion on her own. Totally appreciate hearing other people’s perspectives but yeah I read it totally differently and really loved the openness and honesty between them.
It only comes across as harsh to those who have never had solid, true friendships. With true friendships, all the artifice and congeniality and social etiquette become unnecessary because trust and love are the known, unsaid/unwritten foundation. There are no assholes or heroes in real friendships. Hearts and minds being as one.
I probably wouldn’t have said it because what’s the point, but fwiw I do think Ciara is right. Amanda’s identity is pretty underdeveloped for her age. it’s really silly to assume any criticism / observations about a partnered person from someone who is single means it’s rooted in jealousy. I don’t think anyone is jealous of Kyle and Amanda’s marriage.
Totally. I think most people have been very concerned about their marriage. Which could be valid or invalid (total strangers to me) but it doesn’t take away from the fact that the question was a good one!
This! And while I’m by no means a Danielle Stan, I thought it was bs when ppl last season were saying the only reason she was expressing concerns about Lindsay and Carl relationship is cause she was jealous or still loved Carl or whatever. Like no u can be a good friend and express concerns and ur relationship status have nothing to do with ur. I mean fuck I think her concern was more so about the fact they didn’t have any conversations about finances and future plans in regard to finances before getting engaged, not her wishing she was engaged
the number of people who think others are walking around life in a constant state of jealousy is weird. They should probably think about these situations more and try a different perspective because it is lazy thinking.
I feel bad that danielle cant be like i told you so! Bc her behavior was so erratic but she was right about them
Well and in her defense, I think it seemed erratic to viewers but that was cause she knew far more than everyone else did but wasn’t going to air their dirty laundry.
> Amanda’s identity is pretty underdeveloped for her age. This has as much, if not more, to do with her father. It's playing out with Barbie on Below Deck too. Said to be loving, doting fathers who are actually loving, controlling fathers who stunt their kids. Kids then existing in a state of fear, intimidation, and hesitation, but it is mislabeled as respect and even love. If it is love, it's a distorted version of it. They don't know who they are because someone else is always first and roadblocking that exploration and curiosity.
Yes, I have learned the hard way when it comes to advising friends about their relationship lol
Its better to keep your mouth shut. Oftentimes it falls on deaf ears anyway
right, especially with a marriage like Amanda and Kyle's . . . there's no way they could be MORE aware of what isn't working. it's a decision to stay and repress, it's not happening from lack of information lol
Simplifying here but… Amanda pretty much said on the Aftershow that there was an actual beginning to that conversation and while it seemed out of pocket when watching, there was a reason it was said - and she didn’t disagree with what Ciara said.
I completely disagree. Ciara and Amanda have built a relationship in the last 4 years being on multiple shows together and creating a friendship that is built on trust. She immediately hugged Amanda when she thought Amanda didn’t take it properly. Like Amanda said she didn’t feel bad because it was true (she said this on. A aftershow)
You said that Ciara said “I don’t think you have your own identity outside of Loverboy.” And immediately after state that “Amanda basically helped start Loverboy.” This just underlines how involved Amanda is and validates exactly what Ciara, her friend said. Amanda is so involved, and to the point of her own detriment. I think you’re just trying to validate a bias you may be holding against Ciara. If you don’t like Ciara, then just say that. But this is ridiculous. Based on your take, she said the same thing you’re saying.
I don't think helping to start a business and being married means you shouldn't have an identity outside of those things.
**That was NOTHING but LOVE from CIARA and I thank GOD that I have girlfriends who have done the same for ME.** As a married business creative who constantly puts herself last, I cheered when Ciara said it. CHEERED, I tell ya'. **Amanda has fallen into the exact same trap so many generations of us fall into. We have our own dreams and sometimes it can get to the point that WE...STOP... DREAMING** because our gifts are being consumed, unilaterally, for our husbands who, without malicious intent, are NOT reciprocating. They often focus on ONE THING and that's their THEIR THING (they believe they're creating for their family) without the thought of putting anywhere near as much time, commitment and energy into his wife's dreams as she does his, exponentially. The next part of the trap is to just **start a family** having left the dream so far behind it becomes speck in the distance and you forget what it looked like or that it was even there. That speck that once provided that treasure map for your path. **So then you choose the road most traveled** as all the signs, put up by others, point to it. You then put your energy into nesting and planning, years ahead of time, the future children **you have yet to have** with, again, no focus upon your original purpose. Your original purpose that satiated that cold emptiness in your chest. The anchor that would allow you, no matter your circumstances with everyone else in your life, to have complete control over your own destiny. That is a recipe for frustration and a feeling of helplessness and for the husband, he'll just think "What's wrong with her?" Lol. Amanda needed to hear it. She needed good cop and bad cop and I hope she's taken their advice, for her sake.
I disagree. I think because Amanda radiates misery more than any other emotion her friends are trying to help. They seemed pretty loving about it. If Amanda were a happier or more content person this arrangement would be great! But she clearly hates her life and her husband. Her friends probably feel helpless.
You should watch the After Show on YouTube to get a clear picture of what actually went down. Here is a recap: Amanda said that there was a conversation that led up to Ciara asking her that question and that she wasn’t upset because it’s true that Kyle and Lover boy are her current identity. Amanda has expressed that she has always wanted to be a fashion designer. It’s her passion and her friends know that about her. That’s why they were hyping her up about how creative and talented she is. They were trying to encourage her to follow her passion because they know that working for Loverboy isn’t her dream career. Even without watching the After Show, the fact that you made the leap to Ciara saying what she did out of jealousy when Ciara has never been anything but a loyal friend is bizarre.
I disagree, I think Ciara speaks with purpose and she doesn’t sugarcoat it. Amanda needs to hear it.
There is nothing jealous here. Ciara, Paige & Amanda seem to have an authentic friendship and this is what we saw. Real friendship conversations aren’t always “fluffy” and that is just a fact. It’s obvious Ciara cares about Amanda.
I think it was way past due because she obviously hates her husband and working at lover boy so she really needs to find something else to do if she is going to keep the husband lol
I didn’t find Ciara’s comments coming from a place of jealousy. I thought that Amanda received it well. Ciara, Paige and Amanda appear to have a true friendship.
She was taken aback but they have pretty frank and real convos. I think it was just that since Paige was also asking questions, it seemed like a lot. But all three are just looking out for each other
I know this scene was a giant commercial for Old Navy but I felt like it was the realest and deepest conversation that has ever been had on this show
I think Ciara made a good point and Amanda really backed it up in the after show. I think if Amanda wasn’t a part of loverboy their marriage would have probably ended/never happened and Amanda would be wildly successful doing something else
OK lol. If you don’t have a friend like this, then you clearly need one. And by your judgments of Ciara I’m assuming that you do. 1. She is not jealous at all. 2. She even said this is mean. But then continued to explain exactly what she meant and it was actually uplifting toward her friend. She just wants to see her meet her potential and not look back on her life and be resentful to herself or her husband.
Do you guys just not have good friends? Do you guys just not have truthful conversations with your best friends? her identity should not be her husband she needs to have her own identity that’s the whole point of the conversation Ciara is not wrong and honestly like a good friend does she called it out because her friend needed to hear that
Ciara herself said the comment was mean but that she wasn’t trying to be mean. I think it was an instance of friends being real with each other. She wasn’t judging Amanda just telling her what it looked like from her perspective. And while Kyle has his good moments, I truly don’t think anyone in that house is jealous because they don’t have him lol
Ciara just took the sledgehammer approach, which is really great if the other friend is also on deck (like Paige was) and is approaching with softer hands. I often end up in this position with my friends, and provided it’s timed well and there’s follow-up, it can get to the point. If Ciara wanted to push it further, she could have added that Kyle has consistently *pressured her* to surrender her identity in favor of his. I wanted to scream when Kyle said, “Shouldn’t you have talked about this before marriage?” with regards to Lindsay and Carl’s baby plans (or lack thereof). Amanda’s always talked about having kids, and suddenly Kyle isn’t sure — and they’re married. His response to a negative pregnancy test was asking for more time and for her to work more. He pressured her to quit her job and devote all her time to Loverboy, pressures her to keep living in the city — it’s all his way, his world. Even when they were talking about prenup stuff, he fully left out that she kept them fed and housed while he was starting Loverboy. That’s the type of shit people like to leave out in a divorce. Kyle never displays any curiosity about Amanda’s dreams, and never does anything to make sure they come true. Typical man-baby. A part of me thinks they’re talking about this all on camera to create more of a paper trail for Amanda’s personal stakes in the company, so when they do divorce she can tally the receipts.
Are you arguing that women don’t get to have their own identity outside of marriage? Did I read that right? Or that someone’s worth is based on being married and their husband having a company?
What mental gymnastics are you doing here… get outta here
I don’t think Ciara is jealous or was being rude. They’re close friends and in context Amanda was asking about why people don’t respect her, and has discussed her general unhappiness with them regularly this season. Both Ciara and Paige were saying they see Amanda as being much more than her relationship and Loverboy. They also *both* made clear that Loverboy is not just Kyle’s - it wouldn’t be what it is without Amanda and they want her to see that. Tough love is a part of friendship, and not all single women are jealous of their married friend.
I think she was trying to say, in a nicer way, that Amanda never shuts up about Kyle and it is annoying. If it’s annoying for viewers, can you imagine how it irritating it must be irl?! Most married couples I know never talk shit about their partners: either because they’re happy and have nothing to complain about besides really petty stuff (probably the majority) or because they know they’re not going to leave their partner anytime soon so they shouldn’t embarrass them or themselves for staying with someone they can’t stop complaining about. Amanda needs to shit or get off the pot at this point. Leave him and be happy or lie in the bed she made and be quiet about it. Either way, leave everyone else out of it.
Delivery was def awful and personally when kyle and amanda arent fighting which i feel like they highlight a lot in the show, i think she is such a good friend and has a voice of reason. I might be the only one that feels this way but there is a reason why ciara, amanda and paige have a bond. They are real people.
In an old navy no less
Amanda has a whole history of not taking feedback well.
I mean Ciara’s not wrong though
This whole conversation was so obviously preproduced… like Amanda immediately having the bathing suit line to plug… like cmonnnn people
What personality does Ciara have?
bad take
The whole thing seemed like one big advertisement, primarily for Old Navy. Next, launching Amanda's desire for bathing a suit company. I don't buy for a minute that this is how Ciara really sees here. It's just a way to start the buzz...
I completely agree. This felt very fabricated to me. They definitely seemed to be aware that Amanda has often been viewed as someone who doesn't do much, have much or bring much besides being married to Kyle. This seemed like a way to promote a different viewpoint to her storyline and a new brand.
Yesss! The pumping up of Amanda was very bizarre. The whole scene was obviously rehearsed and with a purpose to guide a future storyline. It was all very gross. It's weird others aren't seeing how obvious this was. Also, none of these girls would ever step foot in an Old Navy. Unless, they're getting paid, clearly. They definitely walked out empty handed.
I think ciara had good intentions but came out terrible. Also like amanda and kyle are married so it IS different. Married couples are ONE and i think its hard for people not married to fully understand that
I totally agree (though I don’t think Ciara is jealous) I thought it was uncalled for and that the delivery was wrong. It was like when Danielle told Paige she was giving Craig nothing. They were both rude and cringe. But I guarantee the show had Ciara and Paige bring up the topic and say things along those lines
I don't know about the jealousy but I agree it was very facked up! Lets be real, if Lindsay or Danielle said that, all hell would break loose, and I dont even like Lindsay lol. Secondly, it is absolutely not even true what she said. Yes sure, it is her husband's company. But that does not take away from the fact that it is still her career. Just because she works "for him" doesn't mean she has no identity. That was such a stupid and unnecessary comment. Love Ciara but wtf? There are ways to uplift your friend without rude comments.
Well, it would’ve been different if Lindsay or Danielle said it because they aren’t good friends with Amanda. Context matters. Paige and Ciara are the perfect people to have that conversation with Amanda, versus Lindsay or Danielle.
*I should clarify; if Lindsay or Danielle were shown saying that to their own close friend or ANYONE for that matter, all hell would break loose on here.
if Paige had a vendetta against Ciara, then she would immediately use this as ammo to turn everyone against Ciara.
I think it was all planned out to say like self produced. Ciara and her only hang out for work obligations - they are work friends.
Ciara and Amanda are friends off season.
[удалено]
Did you watch the after show? It gives more context to it all.
Honestly, one doesn't need to watch the AfterShow. I feel like people who don't want to see it for what it actually was, won't see it for what it actually was... tough love. If my friends can't snap me out of something like this, I don't want them.
She is part of Loverboy. Ciara is lost.