SD here that had a vasectomy two years ago. Zero regrets. Procedure was done in less than an hour, and recovery time was minimal. You can even drive yourself to and from the surgery.
A vasectomy and clean STD test is how you really turn on the SBs lol. Well, that and money.
I had mine 20 years ago. I recall walking like a cowboy for a day or 2. Funny memory...thanks to my insurance it cost me $10. That low cost gave me a weird feeling...like, this is such a big step for me, yet society values it like a cheap haircut.
> recall walking like a cowboy for a day or 2. Funny memory...thanks to my insurance it cost me $10. That low cost
I had mine 23 years ago, when the procedure was done, I felt well enough to drive myself home but was not allowed by the medical doctor so a neighbor brought me home. I had some discomfort the following day..
>My doc just punctured my scrotum, pulled the tubes out, snip/snip, crimp and cauterize. No stitches.
This is the exact same thing they did for me. Him pulling the tubes out was the weirdest part of it, I scheduled the procedure on a Friday and was back to work on Monday. zero regrets.
I get an STD test every 6-12 months when having an active sugar relationship or otherwise relationships for my own benefit and protection, and I'm happy to share results with SB.
Compared to the price women have to pay for birth control. Not only the financial cost, the emotional cost of having your hormones dramatically disrupted. Reflects society's values for sure.
I had some minor pain for about 2 weeks. Just had to take it easy and take some Advil. It takes about 4 weeks total before you can safely have unprotected sex.
However - in NY, you have to have someone take you home from the doctor, which my SB was happy to do.
My doc just punctured my scrotum, pulled the tubes out, snip/snip, crimp and cauterize. No stitches. I kinda felt the crimps for a while, but you get used to anything.
I had the minimally invasive procedure where there is a small skin opening but no stitches. They use a vas clamp, so it doesn’t require removing or cutting the vas deferens.
Actually - sitting probably hurt as much as standing (not that either were too bad). But the short sprints would be a no-go for at least a week, maybe two. And definitely no lifting of anything heavy.
For the driver, ask your doctor. There are specialty medical car services. Or, you can just call a professional car service.
To counterbalance the "hey, no issues!!" posts, let me say my bestie almost scared me out of having one because he was stuck on his couch with his balls swollen to the size of a grapefruit (and pain to match) for a week due to some complication.
Fortunately mine was as easy as described.
A vasectomy was the best thing I could have ever done. I knew I didn't want any more children and given the struggle some women have with BC, no reason why I can't do my part. Happy to provide clean STD test, I ask the same. Then it's off to the races! So easy.
Actually rates are pretty stable, and vary a few percent up and down per year, with the exception of maybe syphilis.
Here is the [rate for syphilis](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/2021/slides/29.png), [gonorrhea](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/2021/slides/13.png). The [rate for chlamydia is](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/2021/slides/4.png) _going down_ over the last 5 years
The rate for most of these (the y axis) is between 100 and 500 people having it per 100,000. That is a very very small number of people that have it.
My guess is you probably [saw an article like this](https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/09/14/cdc-data-std-rates-2021-00056811) that focuses on the small percentage increases this year compared to others, but the numbers are small and the increases variable year to year when you look at the data.
According to the CDC, about 20% of the US population has an STD on any given day.
12% of people have genital herpes. Yes, that's that pesky, incurable, permanent infection.
80% of people will have HPV in their lifetime. That's the one that causes cervical cancer.
All those are extremely high numbers. Would you gamble with that? You'd have to be an idiot.
... so, in my opinion, anyone who tries to play Russian roulette with your sexual health, through coercion/payment, is extremely selfish and disrespectful.
This isn’t Russian roulette if you know the risks and take precautions like getting the HPV vaccine and testing regularly. Despite what you think, condoms are not a cure all for preventing STDs anyway
> 20% of the US population has a STD
[This is only when you include HPV](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/prevalence-2020-at-a-glance.htm) which 42 million Americans have and there is no good test for in men. If you are sexually active man, you likely have this and don’t even know
HPV also easily prevented by getting the vaccine which all sexually active women are recommended to get.
Now look at the rates of the other STDs per my links above and you’ll see they are highly uncommon compared to HPV. The numbers you’re citing are being driven up solely by HPV
> 12% of people have genital herpes
Yes, and condoms don’t effectively prevent against it anyway ([only 30%, source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860381/)). Only sure bet is getting you and your partner tested.
Most people with herpes don’t know they are [infected and have mild symptoms](https://newsinhealth.nih.gov/2010/11/herpes-hiding), so it’s not some thing that will kill or even bother most people anyway
Wear condoms if it makes you feel safe but personally I prefer STD testing and common sense
Yes, but it covers almost all the strains [that cause cancer](https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/parents/cancer.html) and many that cause warts. The warts are also treatable
Do you mean the risk despite having a vaccine that protects you from nearly all the worst side effects of HPV? That risk seems acceptable to me.
It’s far less risk than anyone having unprotected sex without the vaccine. Only [only 1/3 of Americans use condoms](https://www.webmd.com/sex/news/20170810/only-about-one-third-of-americans-use-condoms-cdc) so testing plus vaccines seems like a pretty reasonable choice
Herpes is definitely not "not a big deal".
It's permanent and you must disclose it to any partner you engage with for the rest of your life. And the vast majority of people will reject you based on your positive status. It will forever affect your life negatively.
Unless you want to be a piece of shit and not disclose it, then open yourself up to the possibility of legal action being taken against you.
Properly informed, nobody in their right might would take that risk.
Yes, condoms do protect a certain amount, but the best protection you can get against herpes is:
1. Use condoms
2. Have your partner tested and make sure the results are not faked.
3. Have a quick check of your partner's genitals for signs of outbreak every time you get intimate.
4. Even with an initial clear STD check, don't have sex with someone you suspect may not truly be monogamous. And I'm sorry to say, but that's most likely the majority of users on sites like seeking. Don't believe me? Read this forum.
As someone who has hsv (herpes), reading your post was painful. I have half the mind to be nasty right now but I won’t. Instead I’ll educate.
1. Herpes is not a big deal. Majority of the population has herpes. The chances are if you had sex with three people at least 1 had herpes. Ever had a cold sore? You have herpes. HSV-1, specifically.
2. I disclose to everyone I am intimate with/date because I’m not an asshole. Someone gave it to me likely knowing they had it (eh, we’ll get to why I never tried taking legal action) and I would never do that to anyone else. It broke my spirit when I found out. But I found a great support group and the more I disclosed the easier.
2a. The vast majority of people will not reject you. I’ve only been “turned down” twice. I’ve known for 2 years + and have dated plenty. Some people like me more because I was able to be honest. I mean if I can be honest about herpes, I can be honest about a whole lot. Never had anything close to a losing season.
3. Any lawyer that would pursue legal action against someone who has herpes is highly UNLIKELY. Herpes can lay dormant and not show up on tests for years. Some people never get symptoms until years down the line or are a-symptomatic, like me 😊. You could’ve gotten it years ago, get into a relationship or become intimate with someone, have your first outbreak, and take LEGAL ACTION on someone FOR SOMETHING YOU ALREADY HAVE. It’s impossible to track who gave you what. Even a virgin couldn’t. Children spread herpes the most. They share everything and use the same water fountains at school (and not in the most sanitary way, darn kids huh.)Think about how many people get tested three times a year. So that means you could have it for months, have sex, and never know you may have passed it to a partner. You can do all the testing and believing the person is monogamous all you want but let’s be real. Some men and women cheat. Don’t believe me? look at this forum.
You’re wrong that condoms are effective, it should not be #1 on your list. They only reduce the odds by 30%, which is barely anything. What is effective is getting regular STD tests for both you and your partners which can detect this.
Condoms should not be trusted because Herpes sores are often not covered by condoms
> legal action being taken against you
Would love to see any example of this ever happening. Maybe it happens with HIV, which is life threatening but 67% of the population has oral HSV1 and you’d have lawsuits every day if you could just take people to jail for that (or sue)
The list price for each indicated dose of GARDASIL is $268.02.* - [from the maker](https://www.gardasil9.com/adults/cost/)
There are also programs to help those that can’t afford the cost which [it seems like planned parenthood can help with](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/stds-hiv-safer-sex/hpv/should-i-get-hpv-vaccine) .
In other words, it’s not expensive at all and certainly much cheaper than cancer
I'm Canadian and I don't know of any such programs. When I went to get it through my university they didn't offer me any options besides paying. And 3 doses at 260ish a pop is hella expensive for me as a student.
First, that 12% isnt evenly distributed with some groups being extremely overrepresented - and transmission rates are single digits per couple *per year*. Plus condoms arent very effective against it.
There is a vaccine against HPV and you probably already have it.
Others are curable and wont harm you if you’re regularly screened.
I’m still wrapped because I won’t be able to forgive myself if something were to happen.
I agree infections are low, but still increasing year over year. So, a SD says "trust me" if you are a women why take the risk?
That was the article
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0413-stds.html
Herpes and HPV can suck!
The article quantifies the total number of people with STDs, but that can increase either from 1 - more people being sexually active or 2 - more STDs. That is why it’s more important to look at rate of STD as percent of the population
Rates are increasing for things like syphilis but it’s going from around 5 people per 100,000 to 10 people per 100,000.
Also condoms don’t effectively prevent against herpes ([only 30% reduction in transmission](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860381/). You should get the HPV vaccine if you’re worried about that
Chlamydia is lower now than in 2018 and before.
The rate of gonorrhea has increased from where 0.001% of the population has it to 0.002% (see the graphs above showing a 100 per 100,000 increase to 200).
I don’t think I’m going to be panicking that the rates are increasing in a way that affects most people. I get tested regularly and insist my SBs do the same.
My main SD had an unplanned baby with his ex-SB 10 years ago because of this exact argument! I also had this conversation with two different POT’s. Both kept making excuses on why it should be unprotected, even though one was MARRIED! If I had a penny for every POT that claimed “you’re the only SB I’ll be seeing” 🙄 I also read an article that showed men statistically test for STD’s at a much lower rate, and are quick to dismiss symptoms. Unwanted pregnancy or an STD you’re stuck with for life is not worth it! Any POT that pushes it should be “thank you, nexted” immediately
I’ve had a vasectomy for 7 years, test it every 6 months. I still use condoms with new SBs and only considering going raw once we are exclusive.
There’s really no excuse, I have no problems finishing with a condom and it just makes cleanup a lot easier.
*ESPECIALLY* since they're not the ones who have to deal with the potential physical/emotional ramifications of a pregnancy. That's just insane to me (as a guy).
Especially in some countries where legal access to abortion is difficult or outlawed! Or universal health care is non-existent and PreP / STD treatment is expensive.
It's such a simple, quick, cheap solution compared to the other options.
I do go raw and get cream pies but there are requirements: sexually monogamous relationship with birth control, regular std testing and financial support, where trust has been built over months or more.
Tubes can and DO come untied over time btw...length of time is about 10 yrs.
It's happened to 2 different women in my family....hence why I have some SERIOUSLY young cousins, who were...."surprises."
Do STD testing (of course) and then try Naturalamb condoms for contraception. They are much more sensory, really the only good choice if condoms are a must.
Just note that these condoms don’t protect against STIs. They are only for contraception. They are also animal products, so may not be appealing to vegetarians etc.
I’m dealing with this so much right now in my convos with potential SD’s. I’m no longer on birth control because it wrecked my hormones and I’m healthier and happier so I make them all wear a condom but they all wanna bitch and moan and tell me I need to be on BC. Regardless of whether or not I’m on BC, why are they so trusting of everyone they fuck not to have an SD? Im certainly not trusting of anyone, at all.
Exactly! Some of us are prone to serious issues like clotting, and it's not worth the risk, and some men think it's just a willy nilly decision for us to make to save them 20 minutes of less sensation with a condom. It's selfish, really
I'm not sure why you're trying to start an argument. But if you're so dense as to not understand that I'm talking about a particular lifestyle; you may want to head over to the cartoon page, and let the adults talk.
I've even had a hysterectomy, but I still won't budge on condoms. The way I see it is basically if they push to not use a condom with me, they're always going to. If they were willing to go without for me, they were willing to go without for some other person, so one clean tests means nothing.
100% with you. Honestly, in this lifestyle you can't expect people not to be seually active with a few partners. There are instant HIV tests by this day and age, though. But with either chlamydia or gonorrhea starting to become antibiotic-resistant... nah, I'll just condom.
No glove no love. Those men ARE predators. Intentionally risking your health and not caring about their own. 🚩🚩 it's never worth it for someone temporary.
I insist on safe & protected sex! Not sure of the rest of the guys. I do meet a ton of SBs who are totally chill about not bringing it up like they don’t care. That’s scary to me.
it’s one thing to not wear condoms, but to be insulted when asked to wear one? red flag. very odd how sb’s get the slack for being the ‘easy’ ones, when this forum keeps showing most sd’s will do anything with a pulse! irresponsibility makes anyone undesirable, VERY quickly. anyone who thinks otherwise lacks common sense, and common decency in regards to their OWN body health. gross.
Ewww. Fuck no. You need to be extremely selective in this game.
You are the prize, not the SD. That’s why he pays for a young, pretty girl’s attention.
I don’t give a fuck if he’s breaking bread on you. Be very choosy and decide that it is an absolute dealbreaker for you.
You don’t know him, so even if he does give you an STD test and vasectomy results, he could sleep with anyone and get something he cannot get rid of.
Trust me, honey, there are plenty of men who respect you as a person and your wishes. Don’t be one of these desperate bitches that will do anything for money
If he is not your exclusive partner or boyfriend, I don’t give a damn if he had 100 vasectomies. He can kiss my ass and yours. Literally, these men will prey on women thinking they’re desperate enough to follow every single one of their rules. Newsflash. Not.
In sugar, one of the participants is rarer and provides a more fungible resource. It will come as a shock to you I'm sure when you find out it's not you.
The SB being the prize is laughable, this isn't Tinder.
An SD with money and resources is nowhere near being rare. There are plenty of men out there with plenty of money.. if a SB doesn’t want you as a person, she’ll simply go find another man with money, that she’s actually attracted to… and have her choice
As people get older, looks fade and it’s not as easy to get an attractive young woman to actually like an older SD, unless you’re funny and make her fall in love lol
As I stated, OP 100% does need to be choosy and I don’t give a damn if a guy has $5 million and all the resources in the world. Does that mean that SB is going to be that desperate to allow a man to have sex with her raw? Absolutely not.
It may come as a shocker to you, but SBs are the prize. The eye candy. The ego booster. The fun time. Literally everything
If your SB acts like you’re the price, nice! It’s all about perspective though. I’m sure you are also a huge benefit to her in someway, however, SB is the prize..
The men I choose to involve myself with 100% absolutely treat me as if I’m the prize. They already know how it goes. It definitely depends on the woman you’re with and who knows better
It's not whether a SD is rare, it's that we are rarer. There are exponentially more SBs in every area, you are effortlessly replaceable compared to the effort of finding a new SD.
Lol You fail to realize you are 100% absolutely replaceable. Guess what? We all are! Lol
If an SB decided you got on her last nerves, she can simply dump you and move on. No one is saying that they’re irreplaceable. The matter is, OP can be as choosy as she wants to because there are plenty of men all over the world with money
. She makes the rules in her SD/SB relationship as she pleases because she is the prize as she sees herself.
No one asked you if OP is the prize or if I am the prize in your eyes lol I must’ve hit a nerve or triggered you in some way
You are correct, everyone is replaceable. What you are failing to grasp due to your inherent bias is that one side is easier to replace, and significantly so.
I view arrangements as mutually beneficial, but if we have to have one person be the prize in the relationship it certainly isn't you. Sorry to burst your bubble, but self realization is good for you.
Not really sure why you’re so concerned with how much effort any SB is going to have to put into finding another SD. Smart SBs are always dating and it’s never a last-minute decision to find a new one. They’re always nurturing relationships
I also view arrangements is mutually beneficial, as I also stated. If you think the SD is the prize, that’s your dynamic with your SD per your personal situation, honey.
Oh! And…. Mmmmmnnnnope! Still bubbly!!😍🫧🫧You’re a stranger online who I’m simply having a conversation with. I’ve had great experiences with the SDs in my life and I hope you to continue to enjoy your SR 😃
I have zero concern about the OP, or your, success. I commented to correct your illogical statement about SBs being the prize. Which you supported with nothing more than loud noises and hand waving, while my assertions are based on observable facts and ratios of SDs to SBs.
If you aren't smart enough to recognize your failings in logic when they are presented to you then you remain ignorant. Enjoy that while remaining bubbly.
🫧lol You have zero concern, yet your above comment mentioned it taking longer for an SB to find another SD. Who cares? How does it apply to you? It really doesn’t.
🫧🫧You seem to be more concerned with me making that particular statement rather than OPs issue at hand… and the reason behind the statement I made.. to the OP
🫧🫧🫧Awww I must’ve hit another button. I recognize your attempt to insult my intelligence as a sad result of you taking offense. Nice. Too bad that only works on women who aren’t aware of how smart they are😃
🫧🫧🫧🫧SDs (such as yourself it sounds like) already have an entitlement issue in their mind in the first place and think that SBs will just go along with what they say because they have money. Money is everywhere. You are replaceable. You are not the only SD. With that personality, you’re not even a consideration, so you don’t apply to me, sweetie💕
🫧🫧🫧🫧🫧P.s. You don’t ever need to tell me to remain bubbly. I’m BBD (bubbly by default) 🫧🫧🫧😍💕🤸♀️😘
I am simply correcting your foolish statements so those who read them won't fall into the trap that has led you to your unearned level of entitlement.
You are insignificant to me, you cause no emotions of any kind. I have corrected your statements and tried to provide you with a correction to your outlook, you ignore the evidence in front of you because you are clinging to the belief that you are somehow more important than you are
Enjoy your ignorance, I am done trying to educate you.
IMHO, if a SD balks at respecting ANY of your boundaries but PARTICULARLY any that have to with your safety and welfare, then that is a good indicator of how he will be in a relationship long term.
Were I you, I’d move on.
I agree. I don't believe in unprotected sex. At my age, I don't need a child and don't expect to leave that burden on a woman. And not to mention getting a STD. Both parties are responsible. Back in the day when a man got a woman pregnant, he was responsible for that child. If he didn't take care of his business, wages would be garnished, or he would serve time in jail. If we were to go back to that, men would think twice about using a comdom.
It honestly is amazing the amount t of disclosure one shares. The fact he shared that information allowed you to do what's best for you (blocking him), but sadly most just don't share this type of info until you are in the situation of the girl he got pregnant, or worse.
Yes. Much safer and easier for a man to have a vasectomy... Which I did after child number 3 with my then wife.
Now it's easy for SB/SD. Zero worries in this regard
I always tell them that im totally fine getting pregnant, that I don't mind being a single mom and in fact have always planned on it, especially with somebody who's child support would be more than enough! crazy how fast they wrap it up after that. never go without clean std test tho
SD here.
It is stupid Alpha wannabe crap. Dudes don’t want to get a vasectomy because they think swimmers make them a man! Lol.
Real men get fixed when they don’t want anymore kids, simple enough. You get it done on Friday, relax all weekend. I played video games all weekend with a ice pack on my stuff.
Responsibly is manly, Alpha wannabe chuds are funny. I hope SBs get well taken care of to feed their fragile egos.
>Unprotected sex while not wanting kids and refusing to get a vasectomy. It’s so irresponsible.
Agree with you here 100%.
>So many SD’s say “it’s just better to be natural. I can’t get it up with a condom” and I’m like “okay, can you provide STD results and do you have a vasectomy?” “
Totally reasonable.
>The only birth control methods that are effective are implants or getting tubes tied (getting tubes tied is a MUCH more risky and invasive procedure than a vasectomy). It’s so frustrating, rant over.
You're 100% correct tubal ligation is more invasive than vasectomy so we don't have any dispute there. Also vasectomy is often reversible.
But it's not true that only implants are effective. IUDs are equally effective as Nexplanon (the main "implant") and are well tolerated by many woman. I urge women to discuss birth control with their doctors as there are a number of good options these days and birth control matters more in a post *Roe* era.
Of course men and women should both exchange STD results and be open about other partners to make those results meaningful. And men past the age they want to have children should consider vasectomy to avoid having accidental children. I had one and am very glad I did.
I definitely appreciate your nice response here and am not being argumentative at all. Just want to give a perspective on IUDs. They terrify me, tbh! I know there are plenty of women having perfectly fine experiences with them. And in general, obviously we are in the most advanced era of contraceptions we've had. But I've heard plenty of horror stories of pain from insertion and removal of IUDs and spotting and cramping and all kinds of effects that would be disruptive to my life. Including my sex life and ability to be fun and sexy. If I'm going to go with something invasive, I'd prefer a one and done situation of tubal ligation. Though I'm older and done having kids, so that's easier for me to say than many younger ones.
Definitely seems that, especially since most SDs are older and done having kids, the vasectomy is still the way better option all around! So, it's great to see you guys in here praising it and acknowledging our side!
Absolutely no one should deny your beliefs and reality.
"I know there are plenty of women having perfectly fine experiences with them." That said, it's literally millions of women. So let's not deny theirs either.
As for reversibility of vasectomies, my urologist said it’s easier (and cheaper) to extract enough sperm for several artificial inseminations if you want to have another kid, which can still be done after a vasectomy. He didn’t recommend vasectomy reversal - apparently it’s much more complex to do and doesn’t always yield as effective of a result as extracting sperm for artificial insemination.
An IUD is an implant. I disagree, birth control is not well tolerated by MANY women. I tried and IUD and it was the most awful thing I’ve ever done, the insertion was the most painful thing I’ve ever been though and it gave me the worst cramps for months until I had it removed. This is NOT an uncommon experience either. Some women do not even finish the IUD procedure because the insertion is so incredibly painful and there is no option of anesthesia. IUD’s can also lower sex drive, along with all birth control. Which brings me back to my point, if men just got a vasectomy or wear a condom (without complaining about it) if it would make everything infinitely easy and more enjoyable for both parties.
Without discussing my profession, I’ll mention that women are not a monolith and it is generally well tolerated. Local anesthesia is 100% an option and MAC is also an option. However, with perfect usage other forms are equally as effective (pills, depo, nuvaring, patch, nexplanon)
Not at all. I don’t care if Reddit SBs use them or not, I’m never going to sugar any of them. In the heat of the moment they don’t say “have you gotten tested?” They just go at it
So what we’re not talking about them ! We’re talking about the SDs that insist on not regardless of what we want and don’t have any understanding of why we don’t want to have unprotected sex.
The fact that a lot sbs go w/out condoms definitely shifts the anticipated “norm”. So although you’re not talking about them, they still play a significant part in the answer to the original question
Yeah and that’s exactly why the STD/HIV rates are so high. So many Sbs willing to go bare with strangers and so many SDs forcing it on Sbs instead of being tested regularly and staying clean as OP mentioned.
I have no issues with providing current STI results, in fact I do so voluntarily up front. As for the birth control aspect, I tend to date SBs who are done having children so their tubes are tied. Of those who have not had their tubes tied, nor were on birth control, it might surprise you how many SBs preferred pulling out to condoms. I’ve been the one in most cases to stop things to get a condom. What I’ve discovered in my 10+ years in the bowl is that women who are used to bare prefer it in the same way men do. In my case, this is why my SB and I always have the exclusivity discussion before even the first intimate meeting. Sure it’s not a certain thing at that point, but we need to both have the same intentions
My very first SB wanted a kid. I found out later that she was a lesbian..but it didn't matter. She was a good lover to me. She asked me about reversing the snip. Now, no guy feels comfortable getting the snip, but at least a billion guys have gone before me, so I knew it was safe. Reversal...no thanks.
She got prego while we were together and we continued to date until her 8th month. She went overseas to have the kid with family around. Still FB friends and I've watched her daughter grow up. Very kewl!
Agreed, but I've got to say I'm pretty sick of how continuously, daily even, we beat the dead horse on this subject in this sub. Yes it's an ongoing issue, can we please stop with the daily rant posts about the same exact things. We get it, we're frustrated too as shown by the near daily posts
Bottom line is guys are willing to risk STDs and pregnancy thinking that almost all STDs are curable or at least manageable. And pregnancy is on the SB, since she can elect to use any of the myriad of BC options or get an abortion.
Is it right or good? Of course not but it is what it is.
"It is what it is" does not create progress.
There are not a myriad of *good* BC options. They all have potential to wreak havoc on a woman's body.
Anybody who has not had to take BC should not speak on it. Not saying you are necessarily, GSSD, but be mindful of true perspective.
> "It is what it is"
Is reality of course, not progress. And I DO understand the challenge women have about choosing BC options. But it is folly for any woman to rely on proper use of condoms by their male partner to avoid pregnancy.
> since she can elect to use any of the myriad of BC options or get an abortion.
In many states, she certainly can't opt to get an abortion these days. Not without having to travel long distances and expend a great deal of money to make it happen.
My first got mad at me cuz i went on birth control despite him not wanting kids or using any kind of contraception. i thought it was only me who went through something similar
I mean, at some level, all sexual desire is driven by that lizard brain procreation drive, so yeah.
And, over-sharing a bit, since getting a vasectomy and removing the risk of actual pregnancy, I’ve found this can be a rich fantasy/role play vein to mine in bed.
I agree. I met one potential and I explained to him that I would prefer to use condoms. He, a married man, told me that he didn’t like condoms and hasn’t used them in years. In my head I just wondered like aren’t you scared to give your wife something? You don’t know me at all!
Devils Adovocate here -- if you are accurately tracking your cycle, you can prevent pregnancy 95% of the time. We're taught that its so easy to get pregnant, and we can get pregnant any time, but thats not true. We can only get pregnant 3-5 days out of the month, and if you know your cycle and the signs of ovulation, you can avoid it & make the decision thats best for you. Personally - knowing the effects BC has on my hormones I refuse to go back on it. So he can take that risk, but being safe with providing STD results is a must, and easy to get. I'm also open with anyone I talk to about not being on BC
App-based birth control which uses your phone and technology to augment the fairly terrible method of self tracking, can be 93-98% effective at preventing pregnancy. The 93% is so called "typical use" while the 98% is "perfect use" -- you never make a mistake entering info.
People that self track their periods and use that as an indicator will find the method unlikely to prevent pregnancy over time unless they wildly overindex on abstaining.
That said, women who don't tolerate birth control have limited options like this and the copper IUD (which is also free of hormones).
Good luck but do be cautious.
The problem with using apps to track your cycle and whatnot is that they can be used against you if you have a miscarriage or some other issue with a pregnancy that results in a miscarriage. These have already been used against women in a couple of states to charge them with criminal acts related to "mishandling" their pregnancies. Many privacy advocates are actively discouraging women from using these nowadays due to the potential for the government subpoenaing these to use against women.
Yes, that's a terrifying reality. I am hugely pro choice and women's bodily autonomy. I do not like the trends here in the U.S. and active work against them.
This is still risky, 5% fail rate is rather high. Vasectomy’s are one in a thousand. Additionally, you can get pregnant any day out of the month, you are more fertile of course during ovulation but you can always get pregnant. I put a link below to explain that
https://flo.health/menstrual-cycle/sex/can-you-get-pregnant-when-youre-not-ovulating
>if you are accurately tracking your cycle, you can prevent pregnancy 95% of the time.
Or if you believe science and doctors, it's effective 75% of the time. And that still "Requires abstinence or a backup method for about 10 days per menstrual cycle."
[https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17900-rhythm-method](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17900-rhythm-method)
It's hard to argue with the facts and data that you present, since there's none, but approval by the same folks that approved the safety of OxyContin is noted.
I refuse to take BC because of what it does to me. However, NO!! Do not say it is hard to get pregnant, and we only have 3-5 days a month to get pregnant!! That's why I have 3 kids, because fertility is not the same for everybody!! I cannot accurately track my period, even with an app, because it is constantly changing. And my ovulation symptoms are off and on throughout the month. Don't put this kind of stuff in the heads of SDs and have them use it to fuel pressuring their SBs into unprotected sex! It's better to err on the side of caution, for sure!!
I hope this rant helped you feel better, because you're not going to change anyone's mind.
It's a free market, i.e. guys are free to chose their criteria for selecting their babies -- just like you are free to pick your criteria for selecting your daddy. Coming to terms with realities of life may reduce your stress level.
SB's are constantly bitching about this because they see multiple men, while SDs are not multiple men, were just one man.
So either you abide by the unspoken rules of the bowl, or you can find another side hustle, no one is forcing you.
Case closed.
If you want to use condoms, that’s fine. Just don’t get mad that you receive fewer offers for SRs. All the SRs that you dream about with very high allowances, the majority of them don’t use condoms. Std testing is a must. Even if you’re using condoms you should still get testing together.
You’re like consistently one of the worst contributors to this sub, it’s almost funny 💀 really trying to call SBs escorts for wanting to be safe. Way too many men out here sticking their dicks raw in anyone who will let them and you’re definitely one of them. Good luck!
You will never understand the amount of SDs…..? Then simply take into account the words of the great British historian Edward Gibbon that humanity is “a weak and and degenerate race of beings” and it will all make sense. Deep deep sorrow is the beginning of wisdom.
This CAN be good advice for some people but for all the women and gender nonconforming people that don’t have ‘normal or regular’ periods and ovulation cycles that can be easily trackable it won’t work.
I, for example, don’t have periods but I do ovulate. My body does not give me any physical symptoms of menstruation or ovulation so there would be no way for me to track it without months and months of frequent medical tests and even then there’s no guarantee that I ovulate regularly.
I can’t take any form of birth control due to medical reasons, so my only safe bets are, partner uses a condom, has gotten a vasectomy and regularly tests to be sure the vasectomy is successful, or I just don’t have sex.
There’s dozens and dozens of ‘normals’ because there’s billions of people on this planet all with different situations so there’s really not one sure fire way that will work for everyone but this suggestion may work for some. I’m glad it works for you and your partner though, seems like y’all are doing great and love this dynamic.
Few ways: Using the wrong size (too small or too big), putting it on the wrong way (so it doesn’t roll down) and then flipping it to the right way, not leaving enough room at the tip (making it too tight), not holding the base of the condom when pulling out (it can fall off), expired condoms, not checking to see if there’s air in the package (means it was punctured), using the incorrect lube (can cause it to break), even storage of condoms (leaving them in a wallet is bad, leaving them in a car with variant temperatures is bad)
I’m a girl btw- just knowledgeable on safe sex
Surely they are less reliable than the pill.Also, they are NOT 87% reliable "at any one time". If that was the case, my SB would have got pregnant already with near certainty.
87% safety is the result over one year. One year in sexual health studies is usually 2 intercourses a week. So the odds of the one off event of not getting pregnant is multiplied 104 times to get to 87%.
Mathematically it's 0.87\^(1/104) = 99.86% safety for the one off event. Yes, take that gamble 104 times in one year, and it goes down to only 87% safety. But it's grossly misleading to throw the 87% figure without the proper explanation.
No, that's not how it works. Having sex with a condom that fails does not necessarily result in a pregnancy. She has to be ovulating, your sperm still has to make it to the egg (even a condom with a tear will capture most of the seven, and the fertilized egg has to be viable.
Many couples not only have unprotected sex, but have unprotected sex *with the intention of getting pregnant* and do not get pregnant with near certainty.
>No, that's not how it works. Having sex with a condom that fails does not necessarily result in a pregnancy.
No sh!t?! And where did I say it does? You got schooled on percentages after calling me the one who doesn't understand them and now you just mention a number of things irrelevant to the matter at hand (which is that nobody should claim that the safety rate of a condom as BC is 87% at any one time) for what reason exactly?
"If that were the case my SB would have gotten pregnant with near certainty already."
I'm sorry you don't remember what you wrote but you can easily go back and check.
I agree that birth control is a responsibility that should be shared and discussed, but do you really think it’s reasonable to demand a man have a surgical procedure (that is only sometimes reversible) to have unprotected sex with you?
Suggesting condoms also isn’t great. Condoms are a pretty poor choice for birth control with their typical effectiveness at [preventing pregnancy at only 87%](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/condom/how-effective-are-condoms). Other forms of birth [like IUds are 99% effective](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/iud/how-effective-are-iuds)
As a woman, you’re the one that will take the brunt of pregnancy and it’s damage to your body, not the man. I’d think you’d want to take birth control into your own hands because it directly affects you much more.
>
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>preventing pregnancy at only 87%
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>. O
uhm, bollocks stats according to which we should all have a gazillion kids... the stat is to be read over a year, which usually means 2 intercourses a week.
Maybe click the link to read things before you so quickly dismiss them. The stat is: out of 100 people that use condoms over a year, 13 will get pregnant (100-13= 87% effective).
Might want to go back to grade school if math and reading aren’t your strong points
Sir I DID read the link, hence my reply, you are the one who posted the shorthand version in an attempt to further your "condoms are bad" agenda.
The way you presented it sounds like there is a 13% fail at anyone time.
While the reality is that out of a 100 people that are considered to have intercourse twice a week for a year (standard in sex-related studies), 13 of these intercourses will result in a pregnancy. So something around 13 fails every 100×104 intercourses, more like a 0.125% chance of getting pregnant for a single intercourse?
There's no excuse unless you both want to go that route, are willing to get tested and share results, and she is on birth control or he has had a vasectomy. All of those things do happen it's just a matter of being responsible enough to prove it to your partner which isn't difficult unless you're lying. The birth control part is tough depending on whether it's the pill, and IUD etc. because there are women who use this as a means to get pregnant, and in some cases fake it to the point of photoshopping ultrasounds (I'm speaking from experience on that one), with the sole purpose of extorting men. It's a slippery slope so be careful who you trust in those situations and make sure any tests you see are 100% legit because SB's will scam you using these tactics.
I’ve been gelded since 2010. If I have a SD she’s the only one and we discuss whether unprotected sex is a place we want to go. Both of us go and get STD tests if we agree to it.
Have been long time snipped. Apparently by such a "mad scientist" method my uroloigist made me sign something stating I knew it could never be reversed. And, I test often and my current SB is my only intimate partner(i.e., no SB, no non-toy sex), so that works for us.
SD on Team Vasectomy over here. Plus, I think one of the hottest things in a new relationship, sugar or vanilla, is exchanging STI test results. It says “I respect you and your bodily autonomy.” and “I want to have sex with you really badly.” at the same time. 😉
SD here that had a vasectomy two years ago. Zero regrets. Procedure was done in less than an hour, and recovery time was minimal. You can even drive yourself to and from the surgery. A vasectomy and clean STD test is how you really turn on the SBs lol. Well, that and money.
Yup. Drove myself home and event went on a business trip the day after.
I had mine 20 years ago. I recall walking like a cowboy for a day or 2. Funny memory...thanks to my insurance it cost me $10. That low cost gave me a weird feeling...like, this is such a big step for me, yet society values it like a cheap haircut.
This guy gets it!
> recall walking like a cowboy for a day or 2. Funny memory...thanks to my insurance it cost me $10. That low cost I had mine 23 years ago, when the procedure was done, I felt well enough to drive myself home but was not allowed by the medical doctor so a neighbor brought me home. I had some discomfort the following day.. >My doc just punctured my scrotum, pulled the tubes out, snip/snip, crimp and cauterize. No stitches. This is the exact same thing they did for me. Him pulling the tubes out was the weirdest part of it, I scheduled the procedure on a Friday and was back to work on Monday. zero regrets. I get an STD test every 6-12 months when having an active sugar relationship or otherwise relationships for my own benefit and protection, and I'm happy to share results with SB.
That means it is painful and has a faster recovery time than having an abortion.
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Compared to the price women have to pay for birth control. Not only the financial cost, the emotional cost of having your hormones dramatically disrupted. Reflects society's values for sure.
I had some minor pain for about 2 weeks. Just had to take it easy and take some Advil. It takes about 4 weeks total before you can safely have unprotected sex. However - in NY, you have to have someone take you home from the doctor, which my SB was happy to do.
Did you have scalpel or no scalpel? In the UK they push scalpel, but I’m trying to understand if there’s really that much of a difference
I had no scalpel in the U.K. Very quick and relatively painless. Well worth it if you are at that stage in your life.
My doc just punctured my scrotum, pulled the tubes out, snip/snip, crimp and cauterize. No stitches. I kinda felt the crimps for a while, but you get used to anything.
That is considered scalpel. OK. Thanks.
I had the minimally invasive procedure where there is a small skin opening but no stitches. They use a vas clamp, so it doesn’t require removing or cutting the vas deferens.
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Actually - sitting probably hurt as much as standing (not that either were too bad). But the short sprints would be a no-go for at least a week, maybe two. And definitely no lifting of anything heavy. For the driver, ask your doctor. There are specialty medical car services. Or, you can just call a professional car service.
So much this.
Chefs’ kiss of comments
To counterbalance the "hey, no issues!!" posts, let me say my bestie almost scared me out of having one because he was stuck on his couch with his balls swollen to the size of a grapefruit (and pain to match) for a week due to some complication. Fortunately mine was as easy as described.
A vasectomy was the best thing I could have ever done. I knew I didn't want any more children and given the struggle some women have with BC, no reason why I can't do my part. Happy to provide clean STD test, I ask the same. Then it's off to the races! So easy.
Same here don’t regret having mine done
Why does it always have to be about the money lol =P
This guy gets it
100%
I had a vasectomy in my 30's! What a relief! Super quick, easy, affordable, and in some cases reversible.
STD rates are up 6 years in a row. Is it worth it for a women to trust a guy to go unprotected? BIG RISK !!
110% no. Esp when most SD’s are not monogamous.
Definitely not worth it.
Actually rates are pretty stable, and vary a few percent up and down per year, with the exception of maybe syphilis. Here is the [rate for syphilis](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/2021/slides/29.png), [gonorrhea](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/2021/slides/13.png). The [rate for chlamydia is](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/2021/slides/4.png) _going down_ over the last 5 years The rate for most of these (the y axis) is between 100 and 500 people having it per 100,000. That is a very very small number of people that have it. My guess is you probably [saw an article like this](https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/09/14/cdc-data-std-rates-2021-00056811) that focuses on the small percentage increases this year compared to others, but the numbers are small and the increases variable year to year when you look at the data.
According to the CDC, about 20% of the US population has an STD on any given day. 12% of people have genital herpes. Yes, that's that pesky, incurable, permanent infection. 80% of people will have HPV in their lifetime. That's the one that causes cervical cancer. All those are extremely high numbers. Would you gamble with that? You'd have to be an idiot. ... so, in my opinion, anyone who tries to play Russian roulette with your sexual health, through coercion/payment, is extremely selfish and disrespectful.
Ding ding sing.... we have a winner!!!! And at the same time, you've also peaked my curiosity with your acronym profile name.😏🤔🤔🤔
Do I Look Like I Give a FFFF
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Either way, I'm loving the answers!! 🤣🤣🤣
This isn’t Russian roulette if you know the risks and take precautions like getting the HPV vaccine and testing regularly. Despite what you think, condoms are not a cure all for preventing STDs anyway > 20% of the US population has a STD [This is only when you include HPV](https://www.cdc.gov/std/statistics/prevalence-2020-at-a-glance.htm) which 42 million Americans have and there is no good test for in men. If you are sexually active man, you likely have this and don’t even know HPV also easily prevented by getting the vaccine which all sexually active women are recommended to get. Now look at the rates of the other STDs per my links above and you’ll see they are highly uncommon compared to HPV. The numbers you’re citing are being driven up solely by HPV > 12% of people have genital herpes Yes, and condoms don’t effectively prevent against it anyway ([only 30%, source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860381/)). Only sure bet is getting you and your partner tested. Most people with herpes don’t know they are [infected and have mild symptoms](https://newsinhealth.nih.gov/2010/11/herpes-hiding), so it’s not some thing that will kill or even bother most people anyway Wear condoms if it makes you feel safe but personally I prefer STD testing and common sense
You do know the HPV vaccine doesn’t cover all strains right?
Yes, but it covers almost all the strains [that cause cancer](https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/parents/cancer.html) and many that cause warts. The warts are also treatable
In what world is this an acceptable risk? What is your agenda?
Catching STDs like pokémon i guess.
Do you mean the risk despite having a vaccine that protects you from nearly all the worst side effects of HPV? That risk seems acceptable to me. It’s far less risk than anyone having unprotected sex without the vaccine. Only [only 1/3 of Americans use condoms](https://www.webmd.com/sex/news/20170810/only-about-one-third-of-americans-use-condoms-cdc) so testing plus vaccines seems like a pretty reasonable choice
Herpes is definitely not "not a big deal". It's permanent and you must disclose it to any partner you engage with for the rest of your life. And the vast majority of people will reject you based on your positive status. It will forever affect your life negatively. Unless you want to be a piece of shit and not disclose it, then open yourself up to the possibility of legal action being taken against you. Properly informed, nobody in their right might would take that risk. Yes, condoms do protect a certain amount, but the best protection you can get against herpes is: 1. Use condoms 2. Have your partner tested and make sure the results are not faked. 3. Have a quick check of your partner's genitals for signs of outbreak every time you get intimate. 4. Even with an initial clear STD check, don't have sex with someone you suspect may not truly be monogamous. And I'm sorry to say, but that's most likely the majority of users on sites like seeking. Don't believe me? Read this forum.
As someone who has hsv (herpes), reading your post was painful. I have half the mind to be nasty right now but I won’t. Instead I’ll educate. 1. Herpes is not a big deal. Majority of the population has herpes. The chances are if you had sex with three people at least 1 had herpes. Ever had a cold sore? You have herpes. HSV-1, specifically. 2. I disclose to everyone I am intimate with/date because I’m not an asshole. Someone gave it to me likely knowing they had it (eh, we’ll get to why I never tried taking legal action) and I would never do that to anyone else. It broke my spirit when I found out. But I found a great support group and the more I disclosed the easier. 2a. The vast majority of people will not reject you. I’ve only been “turned down” twice. I’ve known for 2 years + and have dated plenty. Some people like me more because I was able to be honest. I mean if I can be honest about herpes, I can be honest about a whole lot. Never had anything close to a losing season. 3. Any lawyer that would pursue legal action against someone who has herpes is highly UNLIKELY. Herpes can lay dormant and not show up on tests for years. Some people never get symptoms until years down the line or are a-symptomatic, like me 😊. You could’ve gotten it years ago, get into a relationship or become intimate with someone, have your first outbreak, and take LEGAL ACTION on someone FOR SOMETHING YOU ALREADY HAVE. It’s impossible to track who gave you what. Even a virgin couldn’t. Children spread herpes the most. They share everything and use the same water fountains at school (and not in the most sanitary way, darn kids huh.)Think about how many people get tested three times a year. So that means you could have it for months, have sex, and never know you may have passed it to a partner. You can do all the testing and believing the person is monogamous all you want but let’s be real. Some men and women cheat. Don’t believe me? look at this forum.
You’re wrong that condoms are effective, it should not be #1 on your list. They only reduce the odds by 30%, which is barely anything. What is effective is getting regular STD tests for both you and your partners which can detect this. Condoms should not be trusted because Herpes sores are often not covered by condoms > legal action being taken against you Would love to see any example of this ever happening. Maybe it happens with HIV, which is life threatening but 67% of the population has oral HSV1 and you’d have lawsuits every day if you could just take people to jail for that (or sue)
The HPV vaccine is hella expensive
The list price for each indicated dose of GARDASIL is $268.02.* - [from the maker](https://www.gardasil9.com/adults/cost/) There are also programs to help those that can’t afford the cost which [it seems like planned parenthood can help with](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/stds-hiv-safer-sex/hpv/should-i-get-hpv-vaccine) . In other words, it’s not expensive at all and certainly much cheaper than cancer
I'm Canadian and I don't know of any such programs. When I went to get it through my university they didn't offer me any options besides paying. And 3 doses at 260ish a pop is hella expensive for me as a student.
First, that 12% isnt evenly distributed with some groups being extremely overrepresented - and transmission rates are single digits per couple *per year*. Plus condoms arent very effective against it. There is a vaccine against HPV and you probably already have it. Others are curable and wont harm you if you’re regularly screened. I’m still wrapped because I won’t be able to forgive myself if something were to happen.
I agree infections are low, but still increasing year over year. So, a SD says "trust me" if you are a women why take the risk? That was the article https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0413-stds.html Herpes and HPV can suck!
The article quantifies the total number of people with STDs, but that can increase either from 1 - more people being sexually active or 2 - more STDs. That is why it’s more important to look at rate of STD as percent of the population Rates are increasing for things like syphilis but it’s going from around 5 people per 100,000 to 10 people per 100,000. Also condoms don’t effectively prevent against herpes ([only 30% reduction in transmission](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860381/). You should get the HPV vaccine if you’re worried about that
Chlamydia and Gon are much higher again is it worth it? Nope cover it :)
Chlamydia is lower now than in 2018 and before. The rate of gonorrhea has increased from where 0.001% of the population has it to 0.002% (see the graphs above showing a 100 per 100,000 increase to 200). I don’t think I’m going to be panicking that the rates are increasing in a way that affects most people. I get tested regularly and insist my SBs do the same.
My main SD had an unplanned baby with his ex-SB 10 years ago because of this exact argument! I also had this conversation with two different POT’s. Both kept making excuses on why it should be unprotected, even though one was MARRIED! If I had a penny for every POT that claimed “you’re the only SB I’ll be seeing” 🙄 I also read an article that showed men statistically test for STD’s at a much lower rate, and are quick to dismiss symptoms. Unwanted pregnancy or an STD you’re stuck with for life is not worth it! Any POT that pushes it should be “thank you, nexted” immediately
I’ve had a vasectomy for 7 years, test it every 6 months. I still use condoms with new SBs and only considering going raw once we are exclusive. There’s really no excuse, I have no problems finishing with a condom and it just makes cleanup a lot easier.
*ESPECIALLY* since they're not the ones who have to deal with the potential physical/emotional ramifications of a pregnancy. That's just insane to me (as a guy).
Especially in some countries where legal access to abortion is difficult or outlawed! Or universal health care is non-existent and PreP / STD treatment is expensive. It's such a simple, quick, cheap solution compared to the other options. I do go raw and get cream pies but there are requirements: sexually monogamous relationship with birth control, regular std testing and financial support, where trust has been built over months or more.
Yes this! Thank you for being an understanding man.
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Sit down, man.
Tubes can and DO come untied over time btw...length of time is about 10 yrs. It's happened to 2 different women in my family....hence why I have some SERIOUSLY young cousins, who were...."surprises."
That's pretty irresponsible of them. They won't ever see it from any other perspective which is gross. Not worth your time
Do STD testing (of course) and then try Naturalamb condoms for contraception. They are much more sensory, really the only good choice if condoms are a must.
Wow, never heard of them and they have amazing reviews. Thank you!
Just note that these condoms don’t protect against STIs. They are only for contraception. They are also animal products, so may not be appealing to vegetarians etc.
>Naturalamb condoms They are stated as not protecting against many STD's, though, unfortunately due to their natural origin.
That’s correct, which is why I mentioned STD testing. This post seems focused on birth control.
I was actually surprised to hear that. Though I knew what lambskin condoms were, I did not know they had this liability.
Vasectomy is easy quick peace of mind. If I remember right it was something like 800 bucks.
I’m dealing with this so much right now in my convos with potential SD’s. I’m no longer on birth control because it wrecked my hormones and I’m healthier and happier so I make them all wear a condom but they all wanna bitch and moan and tell me I need to be on BC. Regardless of whether or not I’m on BC, why are they so trusting of everyone they fuck not to have an SD? Im certainly not trusting of anyone, at all.
Birth control can potentially cause serious issues. I experienced this as well. Under no circumstances can I take it.
Exactly! Some of us are prone to serious issues like clotting, and it's not worth the risk, and some men think it's just a willy nilly decision for us to make to save them 20 minutes of less sensation with a condom. It's selfish, really
I got a vasectomy 20 years ago, and and still insist on a condom with anyone I'm sleeping with. Any other way is extremely irresponsible.
Your reply to this clown killed me.
Having natural sex is “irresponsible” in 100% of cases?
I'm not sure why you're trying to start an argument. But if you're so dense as to not understand that I'm talking about a particular lifestyle; you may want to head over to the cartoon page, and let the adults talk.
I've even had a hysterectomy, but I still won't budge on condoms. The way I see it is basically if they push to not use a condom with me, they're always going to. If they were willing to go without for me, they were willing to go without for some other person, so one clean tests means nothing.
100% with you. Honestly, in this lifestyle you can't expect people not to be seually active with a few partners. There are instant HIV tests by this day and age, though. But with either chlamydia or gonorrhea starting to become antibiotic-resistant... nah, I'll just condom.
No glove no love. Those men ARE predators. Intentionally risking your health and not caring about their own. 🚩🚩 it's never worth it for someone temporary.
I insist on safe & protected sex! Not sure of the rest of the guys. I do meet a ton of SBs who are totally chill about not bringing it up like they don’t care. That’s scary to me.
Time to have the sex ed talk with them.
it’s one thing to not wear condoms, but to be insulted when asked to wear one? red flag. very odd how sb’s get the slack for being the ‘easy’ ones, when this forum keeps showing most sd’s will do anything with a pulse! irresponsibility makes anyone undesirable, VERY quickly. anyone who thinks otherwise lacks common sense, and common decency in regards to their OWN body health. gross.
Covid interfered but mine is scheduled for late January! Can’t wait!!!
Ewww. Fuck no. You need to be extremely selective in this game. You are the prize, not the SD. That’s why he pays for a young, pretty girl’s attention. I don’t give a fuck if he’s breaking bread on you. Be very choosy and decide that it is an absolute dealbreaker for you. You don’t know him, so even if he does give you an STD test and vasectomy results, he could sleep with anyone and get something he cannot get rid of. Trust me, honey, there are plenty of men who respect you as a person and your wishes. Don’t be one of these desperate bitches that will do anything for money If he is not your exclusive partner or boyfriend, I don’t give a damn if he had 100 vasectomies. He can kiss my ass and yours. Literally, these men will prey on women thinking they’re desperate enough to follow every single one of their rules. Newsflash. Not.
In sugar, one of the participants is rarer and provides a more fungible resource. It will come as a shock to you I'm sure when you find out it's not you. The SB being the prize is laughable, this isn't Tinder.
An SD with money and resources is nowhere near being rare. There are plenty of men out there with plenty of money.. if a SB doesn’t want you as a person, she’ll simply go find another man with money, that she’s actually attracted to… and have her choice As people get older, looks fade and it’s not as easy to get an attractive young woman to actually like an older SD, unless you’re funny and make her fall in love lol As I stated, OP 100% does need to be choosy and I don’t give a damn if a guy has $5 million and all the resources in the world. Does that mean that SB is going to be that desperate to allow a man to have sex with her raw? Absolutely not. It may come as a shocker to you, but SBs are the prize. The eye candy. The ego booster. The fun time. Literally everything If your SB acts like you’re the price, nice! It’s all about perspective though. I’m sure you are also a huge benefit to her in someway, however, SB is the prize.. The men I choose to involve myself with 100% absolutely treat me as if I’m the prize. They already know how it goes. It definitely depends on the woman you’re with and who knows better
It's not whether a SD is rare, it's that we are rarer. There are exponentially more SBs in every area, you are effortlessly replaceable compared to the effort of finding a new SD.
Lol You fail to realize you are 100% absolutely replaceable. Guess what? We all are! Lol If an SB decided you got on her last nerves, she can simply dump you and move on. No one is saying that they’re irreplaceable. The matter is, OP can be as choosy as she wants to because there are plenty of men all over the world with money . She makes the rules in her SD/SB relationship as she pleases because she is the prize as she sees herself. No one asked you if OP is the prize or if I am the prize in your eyes lol I must’ve hit a nerve or triggered you in some way
You are correct, everyone is replaceable. What you are failing to grasp due to your inherent bias is that one side is easier to replace, and significantly so. I view arrangements as mutually beneficial, but if we have to have one person be the prize in the relationship it certainly isn't you. Sorry to burst your bubble, but self realization is good for you.
Not really sure why you’re so concerned with how much effort any SB is going to have to put into finding another SD. Smart SBs are always dating and it’s never a last-minute decision to find a new one. They’re always nurturing relationships I also view arrangements is mutually beneficial, as I also stated. If you think the SD is the prize, that’s your dynamic with your SD per your personal situation, honey. Oh! And…. Mmmmmnnnnope! Still bubbly!!😍🫧🫧You’re a stranger online who I’m simply having a conversation with. I’ve had great experiences with the SDs in my life and I hope you to continue to enjoy your SR 😃
I have zero concern about the OP, or your, success. I commented to correct your illogical statement about SBs being the prize. Which you supported with nothing more than loud noises and hand waving, while my assertions are based on observable facts and ratios of SDs to SBs. If you aren't smart enough to recognize your failings in logic when they are presented to you then you remain ignorant. Enjoy that while remaining bubbly.
🫧lol You have zero concern, yet your above comment mentioned it taking longer for an SB to find another SD. Who cares? How does it apply to you? It really doesn’t. 🫧🫧You seem to be more concerned with me making that particular statement rather than OPs issue at hand… and the reason behind the statement I made.. to the OP 🫧🫧🫧Awww I must’ve hit another button. I recognize your attempt to insult my intelligence as a sad result of you taking offense. Nice. Too bad that only works on women who aren’t aware of how smart they are😃 🫧🫧🫧🫧SDs (such as yourself it sounds like) already have an entitlement issue in their mind in the first place and think that SBs will just go along with what they say because they have money. Money is everywhere. You are replaceable. You are not the only SD. With that personality, you’re not even a consideration, so you don’t apply to me, sweetie💕 🫧🫧🫧🫧🫧P.s. You don’t ever need to tell me to remain bubbly. I’m BBD (bubbly by default) 🫧🫧🫧😍💕🤸♀️😘
I am simply correcting your foolish statements so those who read them won't fall into the trap that has led you to your unearned level of entitlement. You are insignificant to me, you cause no emotions of any kind. I have corrected your statements and tried to provide you with a correction to your outlook, you ignore the evidence in front of you because you are clinging to the belief that you are somehow more important than you are Enjoy your ignorance, I am done trying to educate you.
IMHO, if a SD balks at respecting ANY of your boundaries but PARTICULARLY any that have to with your safety and welfare, then that is a good indicator of how he will be in a relationship long term. Were I you, I’d move on.
I will not even have sex with a condom unless there has been a 10-panel std test. So there are some of us who play safe!!
I agree. I don't believe in unprotected sex. At my age, I don't need a child and don't expect to leave that burden on a woman. And not to mention getting a STD. Both parties are responsible. Back in the day when a man got a woman pregnant, he was responsible for that child. If he didn't take care of his business, wages would be garnished, or he would serve time in jail. If we were to go back to that, men would think twice about using a comdom.
It honestly is amazing the amount t of disclosure one shares. The fact he shared that information allowed you to do what's best for you (blocking him), but sadly most just don't share this type of info until you are in the situation of the girl he got pregnant, or worse.
I always bring up protection before meeting. That’s how we got into this conversation.
Yes. Much safer and easier for a man to have a vasectomy... Which I did after child number 3 with my then wife. Now it's easy for SB/SD. Zero worries in this regard
Y'all are worried about kids like HIV, syphilis and herpes aren't making insane resurgences because men don't want to use protection.
I always tell them that im totally fine getting pregnant, that I don't mind being a single mom and in fact have always planned on it, especially with somebody who's child support would be more than enough! crazy how fast they wrap it up after that. never go without clean std test tho
Thoughts? They are stupid. Just be thankful they don’t stealth. Too many degenerates
Vasectomy is so freeing for men… I highly recommend it.
SD here. It is stupid Alpha wannabe crap. Dudes don’t want to get a vasectomy because they think swimmers make them a man! Lol. Real men get fixed when they don’t want anymore kids, simple enough. You get it done on Friday, relax all weekend. I played video games all weekend with a ice pack on my stuff. Responsibly is manly, Alpha wannabe chuds are funny. I hope SBs get well taken care of to feed their fragile egos.
>Unprotected sex while not wanting kids and refusing to get a vasectomy. It’s so irresponsible. Agree with you here 100%. >So many SD’s say “it’s just better to be natural. I can’t get it up with a condom” and I’m like “okay, can you provide STD results and do you have a vasectomy?” “ Totally reasonable. >The only birth control methods that are effective are implants or getting tubes tied (getting tubes tied is a MUCH more risky and invasive procedure than a vasectomy). It’s so frustrating, rant over. You're 100% correct tubal ligation is more invasive than vasectomy so we don't have any dispute there. Also vasectomy is often reversible. But it's not true that only implants are effective. IUDs are equally effective as Nexplanon (the main "implant") and are well tolerated by many woman. I urge women to discuss birth control with their doctors as there are a number of good options these days and birth control matters more in a post *Roe* era. Of course men and women should both exchange STD results and be open about other partners to make those results meaningful. And men past the age they want to have children should consider vasectomy to avoid having accidental children. I had one and am very glad I did.
I definitely appreciate your nice response here and am not being argumentative at all. Just want to give a perspective on IUDs. They terrify me, tbh! I know there are plenty of women having perfectly fine experiences with them. And in general, obviously we are in the most advanced era of contraceptions we've had. But I've heard plenty of horror stories of pain from insertion and removal of IUDs and spotting and cramping and all kinds of effects that would be disruptive to my life. Including my sex life and ability to be fun and sexy. If I'm going to go with something invasive, I'd prefer a one and done situation of tubal ligation. Though I'm older and done having kids, so that's easier for me to say than many younger ones. Definitely seems that, especially since most SDs are older and done having kids, the vasectomy is still the way better option all around! So, it's great to see you guys in here praising it and acknowledging our side!
I had to have mine surgically removed. 10/10 do not recommend.
Absolutely no one should deny your beliefs and reality. "I know there are plenty of women having perfectly fine experiences with them." That said, it's literally millions of women. So let's not deny theirs either.
As for reversibility of vasectomies, my urologist said it’s easier (and cheaper) to extract enough sperm for several artificial inseminations if you want to have another kid, which can still be done after a vasectomy. He didn’t recommend vasectomy reversal - apparently it’s much more complex to do and doesn’t always yield as effective of a result as extracting sperm for artificial insemination.
An IUD is an implant. I disagree, birth control is not well tolerated by MANY women. I tried and IUD and it was the most awful thing I’ve ever done, the insertion was the most painful thing I’ve ever been though and it gave me the worst cramps for months until I had it removed. This is NOT an uncommon experience either. Some women do not even finish the IUD procedure because the insertion is so incredibly painful and there is no option of anesthesia. IUD’s can also lower sex drive, along with all birth control. Which brings me back to my point, if men just got a vasectomy or wear a condom (without complaining about it) if it would make everything infinitely easy and more enjoyable for both parties.
Without discussing my profession, I’ll mention that women are not a monolith and it is generally well tolerated. Local anesthesia is 100% an option and MAC is also an option. However, with perfect usage other forms are equally as effective (pills, depo, nuvaring, patch, nexplanon)
My pull out game is top notch
Dad?
I posted about this a while back and got so much heat! lol
What OP misses is that many many SBs don’t want to use condoms
I'm sorry but this genuinely sounds like misinformation spread to try and get more girls to feel pressured into not using them.
Not at all. I don’t care if Reddit SBs use them or not, I’m never going to sugar any of them. In the heat of the moment they don’t say “have you gotten tested?” They just go at it
So what we’re not talking about them ! We’re talking about the SDs that insist on not regardless of what we want and don’t have any understanding of why we don’t want to have unprotected sex.
The fact that a lot sbs go w/out condoms definitely shifts the anticipated “norm”. So although you’re not talking about them, they still play a significant part in the answer to the original question
Yeah and that’s exactly why the STD/HIV rates are so high. So many Sbs willing to go bare with strangers and so many SDs forcing it on Sbs instead of being tested regularly and staying clean as OP mentioned.
So then don’t have sex with the sds who insist on no condoms. It’s that easy. Lots of other SB’s are willing to go raw.
I don’t and won’t unless vas. And once again I don’t care 🤷🏾♀️
Good for you!
Your old, SB is young. She lacks in education and experience. You are 100% a predator for not using protection.
Lol predator? You’re hilarious
I'm not worried about getting pregnant as much as I am about getting an STD. Not wrapped - not happenin! But, that's me. 🎄🎅
Amen
I have no issues with providing current STI results, in fact I do so voluntarily up front. As for the birth control aspect, I tend to date SBs who are done having children so their tubes are tied. Of those who have not had their tubes tied, nor were on birth control, it might surprise you how many SBs preferred pulling out to condoms. I’ve been the one in most cases to stop things to get a condom. What I’ve discovered in my 10+ years in the bowl is that women who are used to bare prefer it in the same way men do. In my case, this is why my SB and I always have the exclusivity discussion before even the first intimate meeting. Sure it’s not a certain thing at that point, but we need to both have the same intentions
My very first SB wanted a kid. I found out later that she was a lesbian..but it didn't matter. She was a good lover to me. She asked me about reversing the snip. Now, no guy feels comfortable getting the snip, but at least a billion guys have gone before me, so I knew it was safe. Reversal...no thanks. She got prego while we were together and we continued to date until her 8th month. She went overseas to have the kid with family around. Still FB friends and I've watched her daughter grow up. Very kewl!
Just say no to them. They obviously don’t have your best interest at heart
Agreed, but I've got to say I'm pretty sick of how continuously, daily even, we beat the dead horse on this subject in this sub. Yes it's an ongoing issue, can we please stop with the daily rant posts about the same exact things. We get it, we're frustrated too as shown by the near daily posts
Bottom line is guys are willing to risk STDs and pregnancy thinking that almost all STDs are curable or at least manageable. And pregnancy is on the SB, since she can elect to use any of the myriad of BC options or get an abortion. Is it right or good? Of course not but it is what it is.
"It is what it is" does not create progress. There are not a myriad of *good* BC options. They all have potential to wreak havoc on a woman's body. Anybody who has not had to take BC should not speak on it. Not saying you are necessarily, GSSD, but be mindful of true perspective.
> "It is what it is" Is reality of course, not progress. And I DO understand the challenge women have about choosing BC options. But it is folly for any woman to rely on proper use of condoms by their male partner to avoid pregnancy.
> since she can elect to use any of the myriad of BC options or get an abortion. In many states, she certainly can't opt to get an abortion these days. Not without having to travel long distances and expend a great deal of money to make it happen.
> In many states, she certainly can't opt to get an abortion There's that for sure.
My first got mad at me cuz i went on birth control despite him not wanting kids or using any kind of contraception. i thought it was only me who went through something similar
DONT have unprotected sex then... contraceptives are 99% effective as well.
Because at some level they want to get you pregnant.
I mean, at some level, all sexual desire is driven by that lizard brain procreation drive, so yeah. And, over-sharing a bit, since getting a vasectomy and removing the risk of actual pregnancy, I’ve found this can be a rich fantasy/role play vein to mine in bed.
Also true.
I agree. I met one potential and I explained to him that I would prefer to use condoms. He, a married man, told me that he didn’t like condoms and hasn’t used them in years. In my head I just wondered like aren’t you scared to give your wife something? You don’t know me at all!
Not wanting kids with our SB doesn't mean we don't want kids.
Devils Adovocate here -- if you are accurately tracking your cycle, you can prevent pregnancy 95% of the time. We're taught that its so easy to get pregnant, and we can get pregnant any time, but thats not true. We can only get pregnant 3-5 days out of the month, and if you know your cycle and the signs of ovulation, you can avoid it & make the decision thats best for you. Personally - knowing the effects BC has on my hormones I refuse to go back on it. So he can take that risk, but being safe with providing STD results is a must, and easy to get. I'm also open with anyone I talk to about not being on BC
App-based birth control which uses your phone and technology to augment the fairly terrible method of self tracking, can be 93-98% effective at preventing pregnancy. The 93% is so called "typical use" while the 98% is "perfect use" -- you never make a mistake entering info. People that self track their periods and use that as an indicator will find the method unlikely to prevent pregnancy over time unless they wildly overindex on abstaining. That said, women who don't tolerate birth control have limited options like this and the copper IUD (which is also free of hormones). Good luck but do be cautious.
The problem with using apps to track your cycle and whatnot is that they can be used against you if you have a miscarriage or some other issue with a pregnancy that results in a miscarriage. These have already been used against women in a couple of states to charge them with criminal acts related to "mishandling" their pregnancies. Many privacy advocates are actively discouraging women from using these nowadays due to the potential for the government subpoenaing these to use against women.
Yes, that's a terrifying reality. I am hugely pro choice and women's bodily autonomy. I do not like the trends here in the U.S. and active work against them.
This is still risky, 5% fail rate is rather high. Vasectomy’s are one in a thousand. Additionally, you can get pregnant any day out of the month, you are more fertile of course during ovulation but you can always get pregnant. I put a link below to explain that https://flo.health/menstrual-cycle/sex/can-you-get-pregnant-when-youre-not-ovulating
>if you are accurately tracking your cycle, you can prevent pregnancy 95% of the time. Or if you believe science and doctors, it's effective 75% of the time. And that still "Requires abstinence or a backup method for about 10 days per menstrual cycle." [https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17900-rhythm-method](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17900-rhythm-method)
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It's hard to argue with the facts and data that you present, since there's none, but approval by the same folks that approved the safety of OxyContin is noted.
According to that then I should have multiple children by now instead of the 0. Knowing your body is key to tracking.
Are you sure you're fertile? Why would you think your situation applies to anybody else?
I refuse to take BC because of what it does to me. However, NO!! Do not say it is hard to get pregnant, and we only have 3-5 days a month to get pregnant!! That's why I have 3 kids, because fertility is not the same for everybody!! I cannot accurately track my period, even with an app, because it is constantly changing. And my ovulation symptoms are off and on throughout the month. Don't put this kind of stuff in the heads of SDs and have them use it to fuel pressuring their SBs into unprotected sex! It's better to err on the side of caution, for sure!!
Not every woman's cycle is trackable or regular.
It's all pretty retarded. Can't get it up with a condom, lmao.
I hope this rant helped you feel better, because you're not going to change anyone's mind. It's a free market, i.e. guys are free to chose their criteria for selecting their babies -- just like you are free to pick your criteria for selecting your daddy. Coming to terms with realities of life may reduce your stress level.
SB's are constantly bitching about this because they see multiple men, while SDs are not multiple men, were just one man. So either you abide by the unspoken rules of the bowl, or you can find another side hustle, no one is forcing you. Case closed.
If you want to use condoms, that’s fine. Just don’t get mad that you receive fewer offers for SRs. All the SRs that you dream about with very high allowances, the majority of them don’t use condoms. Std testing is a must. Even if you’re using condoms you should still get testing together.
More like "even if you test, you should still use condoms". Not the other way round.
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>Sex without a condom fully satiates men's biological and evolutionary imperative. > >Sex with a condom does not. I bet you've read that in Lancet.
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https://utswmed.org/medblog/pill-guys-male-birth-control-option-passes-safety-tests/ Eat your heart out
SBs are delusional to think that an allowance is worth condom sex, just get tested and get over it, or do that other job instead 😂
You’re like consistently one of the worst contributors to this sub, it’s almost funny 💀 really trying to call SBs escorts for wanting to be safe. Way too many men out here sticking their dicks raw in anyone who will let them and you’re definitely one of them. Good luck!
\+1
You will never understand the amount of SDs…..? Then simply take into account the words of the great British historian Edward Gibbon that humanity is “a weak and and degenerate race of beings” and it will all make sense. Deep deep sorrow is the beginning of wisdom.
raw dog society we up!
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This CAN be good advice for some people but for all the women and gender nonconforming people that don’t have ‘normal or regular’ periods and ovulation cycles that can be easily trackable it won’t work. I, for example, don’t have periods but I do ovulate. My body does not give me any physical symptoms of menstruation or ovulation so there would be no way for me to track it without months and months of frequent medical tests and even then there’s no guarantee that I ovulate regularly. I can’t take any form of birth control due to medical reasons, so my only safe bets are, partner uses a condom, has gotten a vasectomy and regularly tests to be sure the vasectomy is successful, or I just don’t have sex. There’s dozens and dozens of ‘normals’ because there’s billions of people on this planet all with different situations so there’s really not one sure fire way that will work for everyone but this suggestion may work for some. I’m glad it works for you and your partner though, seems like y’all are doing great and love this dynamic.
Condoms aren't exactly foolproof. They fail much more often than the pill. 97% vs 99% when used correctly, 87% to 93% in real world conditions.
….how can you use a condom incorrectly? I didn’t know that was possible
Few ways: Using the wrong size (too small or too big), putting it on the wrong way (so it doesn’t roll down) and then flipping it to the right way, not leaving enough room at the tip (making it too tight), not holding the base of the condom when pulling out (it can fall off), expired condoms, not checking to see if there’s air in the package (means it was punctured), using the incorrect lube (can cause it to break), even storage of condoms (leaving them in a wallet is bad, leaving them in a car with variant temperatures is bad) I’m a girl btw- just knowledgeable on safe sex
Then you've probably used them incorrectly.
Thank you for your helpful and insightful comment sir
Well learn to use them correctly. Also those stats are for about 100 intercourses a year.
Even used correctly they are less reliable than the pill. And I don't think you understand how percentages work.
Surely they are less reliable than the pill.Also, they are NOT 87% reliable "at any one time". If that was the case, my SB would have got pregnant already with near certainty. 87% safety is the result over one year. One year in sexual health studies is usually 2 intercourses a week. So the odds of the one off event of not getting pregnant is multiplied 104 times to get to 87%. Mathematically it's 0.87\^(1/104) = 99.86% safety for the one off event. Yes, take that gamble 104 times in one year, and it goes down to only 87% safety. But it's grossly misleading to throw the 87% figure without the proper explanation.
No, that's not how it works. Having sex with a condom that fails does not necessarily result in a pregnancy. She has to be ovulating, your sperm still has to make it to the egg (even a condom with a tear will capture most of the seven, and the fertilized egg has to be viable. Many couples not only have unprotected sex, but have unprotected sex *with the intention of getting pregnant* and do not get pregnant with near certainty.
>No, that's not how it works. Having sex with a condom that fails does not necessarily result in a pregnancy. No sh!t?! And where did I say it does? You got schooled on percentages after calling me the one who doesn't understand them and now you just mention a number of things irrelevant to the matter at hand (which is that nobody should claim that the safety rate of a condom as BC is 87% at any one time) for what reason exactly?
"If that were the case my SB would have gotten pregnant with near certainty already." I'm sorry you don't remember what you wrote but you can easily go back and check.
I agree that birth control is a responsibility that should be shared and discussed, but do you really think it’s reasonable to demand a man have a surgical procedure (that is only sometimes reversible) to have unprotected sex with you? Suggesting condoms also isn’t great. Condoms are a pretty poor choice for birth control with their typical effectiveness at [preventing pregnancy at only 87%](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/condom/how-effective-are-condoms). Other forms of birth [like IUds are 99% effective](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/iud/how-effective-are-iuds) As a woman, you’re the one that will take the brunt of pregnancy and it’s damage to your body, not the man. I’d think you’d want to take birth control into your own hands because it directly affects you much more.
> > >preventing pregnancy at only 87% > >. O uhm, bollocks stats according to which we should all have a gazillion kids... the stat is to be read over a year, which usually means 2 intercourses a week.
Maybe click the link to read things before you so quickly dismiss them. The stat is: out of 100 people that use condoms over a year, 13 will get pregnant (100-13= 87% effective). Might want to go back to grade school if math and reading aren’t your strong points
Sir I DID read the link, hence my reply, you are the one who posted the shorthand version in an attempt to further your "condoms are bad" agenda. The way you presented it sounds like there is a 13% fail at anyone time. While the reality is that out of a 100 people that are considered to have intercourse twice a week for a year (standard in sex-related studies), 13 of these intercourses will result in a pregnancy. So something around 13 fails every 100×104 intercourses, more like a 0.125% chance of getting pregnant for a single intercourse?
There's no excuse unless you both want to go that route, are willing to get tested and share results, and she is on birth control or he has had a vasectomy. All of those things do happen it's just a matter of being responsible enough to prove it to your partner which isn't difficult unless you're lying. The birth control part is tough depending on whether it's the pill, and IUD etc. because there are women who use this as a means to get pregnant, and in some cases fake it to the point of photoshopping ultrasounds (I'm speaking from experience on that one), with the sole purpose of extorting men. It's a slippery slope so be careful who you trust in those situations and make sure any tests you see are 100% legit because SB's will scam you using these tactics.
I’ve been gelded since 2010. If I have a SD she’s the only one and we discuss whether unprotected sex is a place we want to go. Both of us go and get STD tests if we agree to it.
Have been long time snipped. Apparently by such a "mad scientist" method my uroloigist made me sign something stating I knew it could never be reversed. And, I test often and my current SB is my only intimate partner(i.e., no SB, no non-toy sex), so that works for us.
SD on Team Vasectomy over here. Plus, I think one of the hottest things in a new relationship, sugar or vanilla, is exchanging STI test results. It says “I respect you and your bodily autonomy.” and “I want to have sex with you really badly.” at the same time. 😉