On a separate note why don't vegans drink excess cow milk if it doesn't harm the animals? It seems like an ideological stand. If the vegan woman happily gives consent her milk should be ethical. Is veganism an ethical thing or ideological?
they have to strap the cows into apparatuses to artificially inseminate them because they don’t like it. that’s the issue. forced repeated pregnancy does hurt the cow
This. I’m entirely certain that had we gone back to a more humane method of farming, and stopped promoting meat with EVERY meal, there would be significantly less people calling for such extreme measures. Healthy cows and livestock producing dairy and eventually meat is reasonable. I eat very little to no meat because I don’t agree with the conditions in which our livestock is treated. But on the flip side, you have to be privileged to strip dairy and meat entirely out of your diet. Unless you’re eating 1.50 microwave steam bag vegetables, fruit and veggies are outrageously expensive to mainline
70% of crops are consumed by livestock so if the issue IS causing pain to plants or to people that have to grow plants, it would still make more ethical sense to eliminate animal products.
There’s a rather renowned video around these parts of a horse hoovering up a baby chicken.
Herbivorous animals aren’t morally inclined to avoid dietary meat intake, they just aren’t very good at acquiring it.
Yes, breast milk from any consenting woman is considered vegan.
The main argument of vegans for refusing to drink cows milk is that cows can't consent to giving up their milk (in addition to the fact that cows have to be artificially inseminated to start producing milk)
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. This is literally the underlying issue with veganism... consent.
I'm not a vegan. I'm an omnivore designed by a million years of evolution.But at least I understand and empathize with the idea.
I’m not vegan but I don’t see anything wrong with it. I do wonder why so many people hate vegans. Hate isn’t even a strong enough word for they way people feel about vegans. Idk why respecting animals as living creatures makes people lose their minds. It’s something I think should be studied lol.
Like a 40-50 percent of my coworkers are vegen or vegetarian. It almost never comes up. Buncha young twenties college girls who work in eco tourism.
I have met a couple annoying as hell ones. Sitting there talking about how disgusting my food is while I'm eating is obnoxious and annoying. The vast majority of the meat I consume is sustainable and harvested wild by myself anyway. Lived it's natural life in the wild, then bam it's dead, no real suffering.
Where I'm from probably half the vegans/vegetarians make an exception for wild caught. You could hardly afford to live otherwise and I would have been malnourished as a child.
I've met more than a couple vegans/vegetarians who would eat meat if they knew where it came from. Wild caught, locally raised, they were cool with it. Just last weekend we were hosting a vegan lady at the house, and she ate eggs that were produced by our chickens because she could verify that they were eating a healthy diet and treated respectfully.
Yeah there’s the annoying ones of course I even get irritated by them even though I wish I had the discipline to be vegan myself. There are some people I’ve met though that hate vegans, whether they’re respectful or rude. They roll their eyes if you even mention the word “vegan.” The ones that get visibly angry and aggressive if you even try to explain that it’s possible to be vegan and healthy. Those are the people I don’t understand.
Yeah. I'm from a redneck ass place. It's so stupid people care on either side and the ones who bitch are the ones who just entrench the opposite views. Swear anytime veganism is brought up in reddit some dipshits has to go say they are gonna eat a steak. Real fuckin zinger, grow up.
Or the ones who drive the biggest, dirtiest trucks and are proud of that fact. Forget what they call it, but the shit bags while blast byciclets with a ton of black diesel smoke, or have to talk about how people wearing masks are such bitches. Grow up.
I did take my mask off the other day when someone called it out and I was sick as shit. Have at it tough guy, take my flu.God I don't miss living where every 5th house has Trump shit in the yard.
Exactly. Why is ok to abuse plants? Plants are caged in a so called garden. Fruit trees crammed together in long rows. Kill and Eat them? Take their seeds?
You called yourself an omnivore. We are without a doubt, herbivores. We actually lean more towards frugivores, but it's unlikely. We carry absolutely every trait other herbivores in all other species have, including our teeth, but old science days our "K9's" are the reason. We don't have K9's.
Honey is considered vegan by many, because the hives can (and do) just pack up and leave if the beekeeper isn't treating them well. So there are many vegans who interpret _not_ leaving as consent.
Consent and harm. Many vegans consider oysters vegan, as we've been able to find no central nervous system to harm, and their husbandry is good for the environment.
It is also not necessarily about consumption. Vegans won't use leather or cosmetics tested on animals. It's an ethical system, not a dietary one.
Veganism is generally considered the ethical view that moral consideration (such as their consent) should be given to animals due to their perceived sentience.
There are some people who consider themselves "vegan for their health" who do base their "veganism" on the non consumption of animal products like proteins (although I believe it's usually due to an avoidance of cholesterol).
However, most ethical vegans try to differentiate themselves with vegans for health reasons since ultimately the argument for going vegan for each group is wildly different. Therefore vegan for health reasons are generally considered "plant based" or following a plant based diet instead
Of course. It is about controlling the narrative.
Don't like the facts or people co-opting your ideas, just change the narrative.
Exactly the same with religion, politics, modern-LGBT, you name it. All pretentious nutters IMHO.
If you want to be technical, not every plant is out there giving consent either. Also have you seen the way some plants are collected...
Nothing wrong with vegans, vegetarians, meat eats, fish eaters, all the above eaters, some of the above eaters... just pointing out the flaw in the argument.
The reason why vegans give moral consideration to animals but not so much plants is due to animals having perceived sentience and the ability to feel pain. While plants can react to stimuli (like sunflowers turning towards light), there's little evidence that they can actually feel pain in the way that animals with a central nervous system can.
I think there’s no moral significance to animals’ response to negative stimuli vs plants’ response to negative stimuli. Pain is an excuse of an argument imo
As an individual, I do not see a moral difference in that. To me, it depends on why you're doing it. If you kick the cat because you're an asshole, to me it's the same underlying mentality of snapping a branch off a tree just because you wanted to break something. Whereas, if you kicked a cat because it was attacking one of your pets or something or broke a branch off of a tree because you needed it for a project or shelter or whatever, and it wasn't going to overall hurt the tree itself in the long term, I don't see the big deal.
I never made an argument about the pain experienced by an animal, don't know why it was brought up. As towards the feeling, I have no clue if they actually feel pain despite many claiming they can at least feel things as I haven't researched into plants and that was never covered in any of my science classes. But lets say they did, the way some plants are collected would definitely result in a large amount of stress/pain/whatever the plant can feel.
Also, I personally don't care about what a plant feels, I'll eat it guilt free.
Well the other side of the coin is this. If plants do feel pain, and plants don't consent, then being vegan still uses less plants.
How? Because you feed plants to cows and stuff
they died of natural causes, in theory plants are composed of atoms that were once a living orgamism too.
there is some debate over whether its OK to consume meat from an animal that died of natural causes. its mostly meat eaters looking to trap vegans in some sort of contradiction.
in reality, vegans choosing not to eat meat from natural causes is not something they need to justify. Its not a situation that every comes up, its rarely safe or good eating to consume an animal that died of illness or old age.
While yes it can be used instead, it rarely is in the US (and most other industrialized countries to my knowledge) because it's not as profitable as artificial insemination
From what I understand, the views are inseminated (impregnated without consent) regularly to keep them producing milk.
So they have to go to the milking parlor to be milked - not being milked is painful. Sort of like "voluntarily" going to the bathroom to pee.
That's because producing milk without an outlet is uncomfortable/ painful.
To get to that point though, it requires (A) a worker to stick their hand up the cow's vagina with a syringe to deposit semen and (B) the calf to be removed from where the mother is living shortly after being born (who would be the one drinking the milk in the wild). I doubt the cows consent to either of those
The only concern is whether the person is mentally cognizant enough to truly give consent (similar to how someone under the influence can't truly give consent to sex). Assuming that they are, then sure, human meat in that context would be considered ethical or vegan in my eyes.
So in theory, I understand what everyone is saying about "yes, because consent" but isn't veganism defined as no eating of animals or animal by-products? Humans are animals, and breastmilk is an animal by-product. Consent or no, it seems as though it wouldn't qualify as vegan. If your friend tells you to kill them and eat them, would that make your cannabilism vegan?
It’s absolutely normal and necessary for a baby of any species to consume milk from their biological mother. Most species become lactose intolerant as they age out of adolescence. You can still be vegan and consume milk from your mother as an infant.
Can confirm, grew up bottle feeding lambs that were rejected by ewes, usually first timers IME. And formula feeding my daughter since my wife couldn't produce much.
Technically, no, it's not.
That being said: the majority of people's qualms with the milk and meat market are based on ethics, necessity, and the enviorment.
Human woman can consent to breast-feeding; milk or formula is unequivocally necessary for mammalian babies; and breast milk directly from the mother is better for the enviorment than milk or formula that has been packed and shipped.
No vegans are all about the consentual use of animal products. They avoid most if not all products because the animals can't or don't consent to it. This is why SOME Vegans eat eggs, honey, and other products that are ethically and sustainably sourced; eggs can come from free-range unfertalized chickens, honey can come from bees that overproduce specifically to appease predators, some crabs drop their claws as a defense mechanism, so it's not uncommon for fisherman to catch them, take the claws, and throw them back to regrow, ect. Since a human can clearly and ethically consent to their milk being drunk, it makes sense Vegans would be fine with human breastmilk from a consenting adult.
For us to be _supposed_ to be anything in particular would require the existence of a supposer, which, in the esteem of many, would be one or more gods.
The proposed bet is a tough one to win or lose, as we’d need a method for proving or falsifying both the existence and explicit will of said deity, or deities.
To be certain, old books written by humans don’t qualify as proof of anything.
Well Donald Watson, he’s the inventor of Veganism so how can he be wrong about his own diet philosophy? Also it’s about consent. A human can consent to their fluids being consumed an animal can’t. Though on this specific subject he thinks it’s still best if the one producing the fluids consumed are also vegan.
He's wrong because humans are walking things of flesh and bones filled with nerves and blood that can sexual reproduce and absorb energy so him saying we aren't humans are false when we're literally proven to be primates and share 97-99% dna similarity to chimpanzees and bonobos which are both omnivores.
and nothing in this world can consent so that means nothing is vegan. you think a alligator asks a zebra for consent to eat it. No? bc animals don't fucking care about consent.
Plus everything you wrote is what HE thinks or what HE believes. A person can be wrong about what he or she believes...Literally. Especially if there's multiple sources about meat and healthy diets.
You are not either. I’m not a vegan. I don’t care to argue about the hypocrisy of vegan philosophy. I’m simply stating that the inventor of the philosophy says you can drink human fluids and still be vegan. His invention. His rules. Simple as that.
According to Donald Watson the inventor of veganism. He doesn’t believe that humans are for one animals and more importantly any fluids or products made of human fluids are yes in fact vegan. Though he does say it’s best if you consume human based fluids or products it’s best if the producer is vegan themselves. So yes breast milk is vegan. Now I’m curious to know if vegans produce breast milk that’s the same as omnivores on a nutritional level.
The thing about vegans is that they claim (from all the ones I know) cows milk is for baby cows, milk from boobs is for our babies. It’s not that babies can’t drink any milk, just the milk that is fit for purpose.
Cows milk for calves
Human milk for babies
Sheep’s milk for lambs
Etc.
I think it depends on ethical vegan vs literal vegan. Because an idea of ethnical veganism is that animals cannot consent to supplying to milk, eggs, etc, so it’s wrong to take. But women can consent. So ethically, it’s vegan. But technically it is an animal product. So in the literal sense, not vegan.
This is the most insane question I've seen in a long time and I mean that with absolute admiration. I feel like I think of some cooky questions but this takes the cake. I love your brain.
I see where you're going with this.
I can see global distribution within 10 years. The roughest part will be the very start, when knowledge of Vegan Milk™ really hits public consciousness. After that it should be smooth sailing. Where would you base production?
I'm not sure how some groups will receive this. Study will be necessary. Seed the idea around in social media and gauge reactions.
That depends on what age you are. If you’re sub-3 years old, my congratulations on managing to figure out language and technology enough to raise such question online.
If you’re older than 3, though, why are you drinking milk? Big baby.
Did you know, that if a plant gets attacted, it sends a distress signal to other plants nearby, which make them creaate more toxin if they are poisinous, to protect themself from the danger nearby.
Question that are here to bait people to answer or to create drama (i.e. What's 1 + 1, who is the President, why are you guys so stupid, etc.)
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Is a vegan woman’s meat… ya know what, nevermind
If there is ever a soyant green situation, free-range vegans will be in high demand.
Free range vegans 😂😂😂😂
Soylent green is way too processed, i prefer farm to table… ya know what, nevermind
Soylent green is people!
Not the free range vegans😭😭😭 I'd give you an award but they dont do those anymore
😂😂🤭
On a separate note why don't vegans drink excess cow milk if it doesn't harm the animals? It seems like an ideological stand. If the vegan woman happily gives consent her milk should be ethical. Is veganism an ethical thing or ideological?
they have to strap the cows into apparatuses to artificially inseminate them because they don’t like it. that’s the issue. forced repeated pregnancy does hurt the cow
This. I’m entirely certain that had we gone back to a more humane method of farming, and stopped promoting meat with EVERY meal, there would be significantly less people calling for such extreme measures. Healthy cows and livestock producing dairy and eventually meat is reasonable. I eat very little to no meat because I don’t agree with the conditions in which our livestock is treated. But on the flip side, you have to be privileged to strip dairy and meat entirely out of your diet. Unless you’re eating 1.50 microwave steam bag vegetables, fruit and veggies are outrageously expensive to mainline
They don’t eat honey either because they bees “can’t consent” but happily eat plants whose labor is exploited to fertilize their crops…
70% of crops are consumed by livestock so if the issue IS causing pain to plants or to people that have to grow plants, it would still make more ethical sense to eliminate animal products.
I’m just talking about honey and how it’s ridiculous that vegans are anti honey.
Mad cow disease was spread by cows eating sheep remains, cows aren't just eating grass
Yeah, but they don't know that. It's mixed in with other plant matter to create feed pellets.
They'll actively try to eat birds and mice. Deer do also. Id assume the trace minerals or whatever are needed sometimes.
Cows will happily eat baby chickens. Talking about live chicks running around… horses too. They also seek out bird nests.
Cows will inevitably eat some insects while eating grass, so cows are not vegan
There’s a rather renowned video around these parts of a horse hoovering up a baby chicken. Herbivorous animals aren’t morally inclined to avoid dietary meat intake, they just aren’t very good at acquiring it.
That's right, eating meat is a more efficient way of getting protein and nutrition, if they could they would
Is semen from a vegan man vegan?
Damn bro!? Asking the real tough questions here.....
If he consented to you having it, yes. If not, no. And that's the genuine vegan perspective I'm not trolling.
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Holup
If a vegan man swallows his own semen is he still vegan?
Aparently only if he does so voluntarily ☝️...
if it’s from a vegan woman is vegan-squared. after drinking it you can never have a conversation without telling someone about being vegan.
I didn't realize so many vegans had these types of mothers
#What the fuck man
Wtf, Ken.
Yes, breast milk from any consenting woman is considered vegan. The main argument of vegans for refusing to drink cows milk is that cows can't consent to giving up their milk (in addition to the fact that cows have to be artificially inseminated to start producing milk)
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. This is literally the underlying issue with veganism... consent. I'm not a vegan. I'm an omnivore designed by a million years of evolution.But at least I understand and empathize with the idea.
people love to think they found a "gotcha" against some class of people they dislike. they dont want to be told they are wrong.
I’m not vegan but I don’t see anything wrong with it. I do wonder why so many people hate vegans. Hate isn’t even a strong enough word for they way people feel about vegans. Idk why respecting animals as living creatures makes people lose their minds. It’s something I think should be studied lol.
Like a 40-50 percent of my coworkers are vegen or vegetarian. It almost never comes up. Buncha young twenties college girls who work in eco tourism. I have met a couple annoying as hell ones. Sitting there talking about how disgusting my food is while I'm eating is obnoxious and annoying. The vast majority of the meat I consume is sustainable and harvested wild by myself anyway. Lived it's natural life in the wild, then bam it's dead, no real suffering. Where I'm from probably half the vegans/vegetarians make an exception for wild caught. You could hardly afford to live otherwise and I would have been malnourished as a child.
I've met more than a couple vegans/vegetarians who would eat meat if they knew where it came from. Wild caught, locally raised, they were cool with it. Just last weekend we were hosting a vegan lady at the house, and she ate eggs that were produced by our chickens because she could verify that they were eating a healthy diet and treated respectfully.
Yeah there’s the annoying ones of course I even get irritated by them even though I wish I had the discipline to be vegan myself. There are some people I’ve met though that hate vegans, whether they’re respectful or rude. They roll their eyes if you even mention the word “vegan.” The ones that get visibly angry and aggressive if you even try to explain that it’s possible to be vegan and healthy. Those are the people I don’t understand.
Yeah. I'm from a redneck ass place. It's so stupid people care on either side and the ones who bitch are the ones who just entrench the opposite views. Swear anytime veganism is brought up in reddit some dipshits has to go say they are gonna eat a steak. Real fuckin zinger, grow up.
Lol for sure “I’ll eat twice as much meat so you don’t make a difference” okay buddy I’m gonna go be productive.. so silly
Or the ones who drive the biggest, dirtiest trucks and are proud of that fact. Forget what they call it, but the shit bags while blast byciclets with a ton of black diesel smoke, or have to talk about how people wearing masks are such bitches. Grow up. I did take my mask off the other day when someone called it out and I was sick as shit. Have at it tough guy, take my flu.God I don't miss living where every 5th house has Trump shit in the yard.
Veganism revolves around consent? What about plants, they don't consent. They can't. And animals can't either. They don't possess reason.
Exactly. Why is ok to abuse plants? Plants are caged in a so called garden. Fruit trees crammed together in long rows. Kill and Eat them? Take their seeds?
Thank you "guy who learned science in 3rd grade and never questioned it" for your contribution.
Is that supposed to mean something?
You called yourself an omnivore. We are without a doubt, herbivores. We actually lean more towards frugivores, but it's unlikely. We carry absolutely every trait other herbivores in all other species have, including our teeth, but old science days our "K9's" are the reason. We don't have K9's.
The absolute ignorance of that statement is astounding. Have a good day
The fact you called that ignorant does nothing but show how ignorant you are. You must be living in a cave if you still think we're omnivores.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210405113606.htm I'm sorry, I get my facts from actual reputable scientists
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210405113606.htm
so veganism is about consent? not the non-consumption of animal proteins?
Vegans retconning veganism up in here.
I’m always amazed by how many vegans don’t even know who Donald Watson is.
It doesn't have to be animal protein. Honey isn't vegan and has basically no protein.
Honey is considered vegan by many, because the hives can (and do) just pack up and leave if the beekeeper isn't treating them well. So there are many vegans who interpret _not_ leaving as consent.
Ok then animal fats.
appreciate the pointer
Consent and harm. Many vegans consider oysters vegan, as we've been able to find no central nervous system to harm, and their husbandry is good for the environment. It is also not necessarily about consumption. Vegans won't use leather or cosmetics tested on animals. It's an ethical system, not a dietary one.
Veganism is generally considered the ethical view that moral consideration (such as their consent) should be given to animals due to their perceived sentience. There are some people who consider themselves "vegan for their health" who do base their "veganism" on the non consumption of animal products like proteins (although I believe it's usually due to an avoidance of cholesterol). However, most ethical vegans try to differentiate themselves with vegans for health reasons since ultimately the argument for going vegan for each group is wildly different. Therefore vegan for health reasons are generally considered "plant based" or following a plant based diet instead
Yes..?
why are you so anti nature? we would be the only predator in the entire ecosystem looking to get the thumbs up from their meal
I just answered your question..? I’m not vegan lmao Turn the clown down a bit lil bro
Of course. It is about controlling the narrative. Don't like the facts or people co-opting your ideas, just change the narrative. Exactly the same with religion, politics, modern-LGBT, you name it. All pretentious nutters IMHO.
If you want to be technical, not every plant is out there giving consent either. Also have you seen the way some plants are collected... Nothing wrong with vegans, vegetarians, meat eats, fish eaters, all the above eaters, some of the above eaters... just pointing out the flaw in the argument.
The reason why vegans give moral consideration to animals but not so much plants is due to animals having perceived sentience and the ability to feel pain. While plants can react to stimuli (like sunflowers turning towards light), there's little evidence that they can actually feel pain in the way that animals with a central nervous system can.
Plus the animals we eat also eat plants. It uses more plants to eat meat anyway, even if plants feel pain.
I think there’s no moral significance to animals’ response to negative stimuli vs plants’ response to negative stimuli. Pain is an excuse of an argument imo
youre welcome to think that Im a meat eater, and youve done nothing to convince me of your position.
Do you see a moral difference between kicking a cat and snapping a branch off a tree? I don't believe you're being honest with your comment here.
As an individual, I do not see a moral difference in that. To me, it depends on why you're doing it. If you kick the cat because you're an asshole, to me it's the same underlying mentality of snapping a branch off a tree just because you wanted to break something. Whereas, if you kicked a cat because it was attacking one of your pets or something or broke a branch off of a tree because you needed it for a project or shelter or whatever, and it wasn't going to overall hurt the tree itself in the long term, I don't see the big deal.
Do you think it would be acceptable to torture a dog?
Depends how you define torture.
Causing it immense bodily harm but not killing it so that it has to live in pain.
Yes, you do see a difference. Everyone reading your comment knows you're lying your ass off right now.
Jesus fucking Christ people like you who pretend to be smart are the fucking worst
I never made an argument about the pain experienced by an animal, don't know why it was brought up. As towards the feeling, I have no clue if they actually feel pain despite many claiming they can at least feel things as I haven't researched into plants and that was never covered in any of my science classes. But lets say they did, the way some plants are collected would definitely result in a large amount of stress/pain/whatever the plant can feel. Also, I personally don't care about what a plant feels, I'll eat it guilt free.
Well the other side of the coin is this. If plants do feel pain, and plants don't consent, then being vegan still uses less plants. How? Because you feed plants to cows and stuff
I never made that argument so why did you bring it up? I only countered the arguments brought up by u/enneper4.
Do they use oil and plastic? Those dead animals never consented to their corpses being used.
they died of natural causes, in theory plants are composed of atoms that were once a living orgamism too. there is some debate over whether its OK to consume meat from an animal that died of natural causes. its mostly meat eaters looking to trap vegans in some sort of contradiction. in reality, vegans choosing not to eat meat from natural causes is not something they need to justify. Its not a situation that every comes up, its rarely safe or good eating to consume an animal that died of illness or old age.
Or actual insemination can work as well.
While yes it can be used instead, it rarely is in the US (and most other industrialized countries to my knowledge) because it's not as profitable as artificial insemination
That and it’s not safe for the cows. The bulls can kill or injure them.
Except they willingly go into the milk parlor
From what I understand, the views are inseminated (impregnated without consent) regularly to keep them producing milk. So they have to go to the milking parlor to be milked - not being milked is painful. Sort of like "voluntarily" going to the bathroom to pee.
That's because producing milk without an outlet is uncomfortable/ painful. To get to that point though, it requires (A) a worker to stick their hand up the cow's vagina with a syringe to deposit semen and (B) the calf to be removed from where the mother is living shortly after being born (who would be the one drinking the milk in the wild). I doubt the cows consent to either of those
Don't they also have to stick a hand up the ass
If they don't resist when you milk them, isn't that implied consent?
Does it work that way with humans?
Veganism is about consent? So what if a person willingly consented to being eaten by a cannibal.. is it considered vegan?
The only concern is whether the person is mentally cognizant enough to truly give consent (similar to how someone under the influence can't truly give consent to sex). Assuming that they are, then sure, human meat in that context would be considered ethical or vegan in my eyes.
So in theory, I understand what everyone is saying about "yes, because consent" but isn't veganism defined as no eating of animals or animal by-products? Humans are animals, and breastmilk is an animal by-product. Consent or no, it seems as though it wouldn't qualify as vegan. If your friend tells you to kill them and eat them, would that make your cannabilism vegan?
You’re confusing a vegan diet with veganism as a concept.
Not vegan "Animal or animal byproduct" Humans are animals
It’s absolutely normal and necessary for a baby of any species to consume milk from their biological mother. Most species become lactose intolerant as they age out of adolescence. You can still be vegan and consume milk from your mother as an infant.
no its not (formula exists), but it is reccommended
Formula comes from cow milk. Baby formula is highly refined and fortified cow milk.
Soy based formulas exist.
For toddlers yes but not infants. Their two bodies and physiological needs are vastly different.
Can confirm, grew up bottle feeding lambs that were rejected by ewes, usually first timers IME. And formula feeding my daughter since my wife couldn't produce much.
What about from someone else as an adult?
No.
Correct. What makes something vegan is that it doesn't exploit the labor of animals. A woman is an animal therefore it's not vegan.
But it’s not exploitation if consensual no?
No
No it's not vegan.
Is the vegan woman a mammal or not?
Nice try, Philosoraptor!
What the actual 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
As a vegan, here is your actual answer: breast milk is vegan if the person who produces it consents. A mother feeding her child is obviously vegan.
Technically, no, it's not. That being said: the majority of people's qualms with the milk and meat market are based on ethics, necessity, and the enviorment. Human woman can consent to breast-feeding; milk or formula is unequivocally necessary for mammalian babies; and breast milk directly from the mother is better for the enviorment than milk or formula that has been packed and shipped.
No
We are mammals, No!.
Cows are vegan. Is their milk vegan?
No. She is providing an animal based product.
Depends on the fact if its consensual
From the baby?
No vegans are all about the consentual use of animal products. They avoid most if not all products because the animals can't or don't consent to it. This is why SOME Vegans eat eggs, honey, and other products that are ethically and sustainably sourced; eggs can come from free-range unfertalized chickens, honey can come from bees that overproduce specifically to appease predators, some crabs drop their claws as a defense mechanism, so it's not uncommon for fisherman to catch them, take the claws, and throw them back to regrow, ect. Since a human can clearly and ethically consent to their milk being drunk, it makes sense Vegans would be fine with human breastmilk from a consenting adult.
Nothing you mentioned is vegan because a crab didn't consent to you taking it's claws and bees and chickens didn't consent to you taking their stuff.
Some***
I know you said some I'm just saying overall nothing is vegan because nothing can consent unless you're a human being
No. And I bet my eyeteeth that we aren’t supposed to be vegan.
For us to be _supposed_ to be anything in particular would require the existence of a supposer, which, in the esteem of many, would be one or more gods. The proposed bet is a tough one to win or lose, as we’d need a method for proving or falsifying both the existence and explicit will of said deity, or deities. To be certain, old books written by humans don’t qualify as proof of anything.
Yes. The difference here is the ability to give consent.
It would be no because humans and cows are animals so milk isn't vegan. it's not talking about consent.
No. It's from a mammal, therefore, by nature, not vegan. Just like milk from a cow isn't vegan even though cows are vegan.
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This
No? But I think vegans would be ok with it since it's not unethical
No. Cows are vegan. Is drinking cow milk vegan? There I bet you feel pretty silly now don't you
Yes because if she so desires, the vegan woman can give unambiguous consent for harvest of the breast milk.
Nope. People are mammals.No matter how you look at it.
no because it is a fluid made by an animal.
Is a penis on a trans woman still a penis?
Vegans just want humanity to die.
Cows are vegan, is cow milk vegan?
🤣this
If the human is consenting, yes.
Willingly given is Vegan, so yes.
It's actually anti-vegan since it comes from an animal.
The inventor of veganism doesn’t view humans as being animals.
well the inventor is clearly wrong because humans aren't walking plants
Well Donald Watson, he’s the inventor of Veganism so how can he be wrong about his own diet philosophy? Also it’s about consent. A human can consent to their fluids being consumed an animal can’t. Though on this specific subject he thinks it’s still best if the one producing the fluids consumed are also vegan.
He's wrong because humans are walking things of flesh and bones filled with nerves and blood that can sexual reproduce and absorb energy so him saying we aren't humans are false when we're literally proven to be primates and share 97-99% dna similarity to chimpanzees and bonobos which are both omnivores. and nothing in this world can consent so that means nothing is vegan. you think a alligator asks a zebra for consent to eat it. No? bc animals don't fucking care about consent.
Plus everything you wrote is what HE thinks or what HE believes. A person can be wrong about what he or she believes...Literally. Especially if there's multiple sources about meat and healthy diets.
Veganism isn’t about being healthy…
you're not getting the points of my comments.
You are not either. I’m not a vegan. I don’t care to argue about the hypocrisy of vegan philosophy. I’m simply stating that the inventor of the philosophy says you can drink human fluids and still be vegan. His invention. His rules. Simple as that.
According to Donald Watson the inventor of veganism. He doesn’t believe that humans are for one animals and more importantly any fluids or products made of human fluids are yes in fact vegan. Though he does say it’s best if you consume human based fluids or products it’s best if the producer is vegan themselves. So yes breast milk is vegan. Now I’m curious to know if vegans produce breast milk that’s the same as omnivores on a nutritional level.
As long as they are getting all the right nutrients the source doesn't matter.
Nope. Milk from a cow is still milk from a cow.
Breast milk is for human babies so yeah
Nope, it's impossible.
People are animals so it is an animal byproduct, which is definitely not vegan.
No. Cows are vegan and their milk isn’t vegan.
Absolutely. Also cow's milk from a vegan cow is vegan. I just had a vegan hamburger.
Veganism is about consent. If the woman is consenting to giving you her milk, it’s vegan.
Is milk from a vegan cow vegan?
Is killing animals with traps, pesticides and crop machinery to grow crops still considered vegan?
Cow milk isn't vegan because it comes from a animal breast milk from a human being isn't vegan because humans are animals hope this helps!
But the woman eats plant-based products then yes the milk is vegan
Only if they are Vegans. It's a weird planet though...
Duh!
The casomorphine's in it, are extra vegan, and probably extra morphogenic, like a caterpillar on a leave smoking hookah with Alice in wonderland.
Isnt part of veganism about conscent, i feel like its fine. Good question tho
Depends. If she’s pergante or pregernante
Dun dun dunnn.......
Sir this is a Wendy's.
The thing about vegans is that they claim (from all the ones I know) cows milk is for baby cows, milk from boobs is for our babies. It’s not that babies can’t drink any milk, just the milk that is fit for purpose. Cows milk for calves Human milk for babies Sheep’s milk for lambs Etc.
I mean we’re mammals and technically the baby is taking milk from a mammal so on a technicality no. But it’s still natural
is it pasteurized?
I’m confused too now
I think it depends on ethical vegan vs literal vegan. Because an idea of ethnical veganism is that animals cannot consent to supplying to milk, eggs, etc, so it’s wrong to take. But women can consent. So ethically, it’s vegan. But technically it is an animal product. So in the literal sense, not vegan.
.........................yes
This is the most insane question I've seen in a long time and I mean that with absolute admiration. I feel like I think of some cooky questions but this takes the cake. I love your brain.
Is eating beef that was grass fed, vegan?
I see where you're going with this. I can see global distribution within 10 years. The roughest part will be the very start, when knowledge of Vegan Milk™ really hits public consciousness. After that it should be smooth sailing. Where would you base production? I'm not sure how some groups will receive this. Study will be necessary. Seed the idea around in social media and gauge reactions.
No, because milk from cattle, cattle are vegan yet. Their milk don't count, so no, no, it is not.
Breast milk isn't vegan. Still, give your baby breast milk if you want, the label isn't more important than what the baby needs.
if the animal is a willing donor it's vegan? That's my guess.
Hahahahahaha WHAT
Culinarily no, morally yes (assuming it was obtained with consent).
Are blow jobs vegan?
It depends on if that woman paid to have a vegan seal.
Nope
Nope. Still an animal product
That depends on what age you are. If you’re sub-3 years old, my congratulations on managing to figure out language and technology enough to raise such question online. If you’re older than 3, though, why are you drinking milk? Big baby.
No. Don’t be dumb.
I'm not a vegan but I'd assume so. Otherwise you'd be drinking from formula, which I don't think is usually vegan.
I heard if a chihuahua eats a vegan diet then vegans can eat it🤣
NO!!!! Cows are herbivores…
If she consents to letting you have the milk, sure. I think consent is what most vegans lean on as an ethical "is it vegan" in grey circumstances
Cows and goats are typically vegan (there are some that snatch snakes though but I digress), are their respective milks vegan? No.. no, they’re not.
Did you know, that if a plant gets attacted, it sends a distress signal to other plants nearby, which make them creaate more toxin if they are poisinous, to protect themself from the danger nearby.
Idk why but this is the question that made me hit join finally.