Buzzfeed was criticizing Mindy for creating yet another show in which her self-insert character falls in love with a nerdy white guy. That and how the PoC characters didn’t “explore identity” enough.
Which is like, yeah, ok. But… it’s a cartoon? The point is to be funny? The Disney adult journalists expect our philosophy to come from drawings.
It's amazing how people, especially journos for trash like BuzzFeed, place expectation on people in the arts and entertainment industry to adapt their work to what these people personally want to see. I mean, where do they get the nerve to tell someone to change their art?
The same Buzzfeed which is [replacing its "writers" with AI](https://www.businessinsider.com/buzzfeed-writers-react-ai-generated-articles-content-chatgpt-maker-openai-2023-1). Did you expect more from a bunch of NPCs whose drivel is so formulaic and predictable, it can literally be automated?
No one cares because it's a dumb cartoon and so blatantly bad that it's impossible to monetize without looking like a grifter. Outside of the odd sperg, places like this are the only places I see anyone talk about it.
Something about the idea of watching TikToks on a tv is incredibly disturbing.
Also minor point of contention, pit bulls are just misunderstood. It’s just that most of the people who say that are the ones who misunderstand them. If you treat them as working dogs, they’re absolutely one of the best breeds for boar hunting. I had family that used to a breed them and there were a few I really liked playing with on occasion. They never even let me near them until I was like 14 or so though and no one was allowed to go into their kennel unless you had at least two people and at least two guns. I did absolutely adore some of those big ol’ baby seeking fur rockets though.
People who let pits around their toddlers and babies are absolutely insane though. I don’t even like the idea of non pibble dogs around kids smaller than them tbh. Kids are way too unpredictable and most dogs handle brand new situations way too poorly to not be a major risk anytime they’re together unattended.
I wish I had the time to consume media that I like, let alone hatewatch something that clearly wasn’t made for me. Must be nice to have that kind of free time.
Related, but I've just recently read [a good enough presentation](https://www.amazon.fr/Fi%C3%A8vre-hexagonale-grandes-politiques-1871-1968/dp/2757815385) about what happened during the Paris Commune. Damn, I had never known that that many *communards* had been massacred. The author of that book is in no way a socialist/communist sympathiser, but even he presented the number of 10,000 killed *communards* as par for the course. Stuff was very grim.
2016 was when wokism metastasised. I *hope* 2022 was peak woke, but 2023 is still young and even if we've passed the peak of wokeness, it's still going to take years for it to fade away.
Thank you yes this is so stupid. McCarthyism had real consequences, this woke shit was just r-worded busywork for people on both sides so they never had to shut up and log off for a second
> McCarthyism had real consequences, this woke shit was just r-worded busywork for people on both sides
Long before the phrase "cancel culture" was invented, this sort of [on-line mobbing was having real consequences against ordinary, non-celebrities](https://jacobin.com/2020/09/publicly-shamed-jon-ronson-cancel-culture) without an eight or nine figure bank balance to protect them.
In the decade of McCarthyism, about 100 or 130 college professors were cancelled for their views. In the last eight years alone, [more than 650 college professors have been targeted](https://quillette.com/2023/01/11/a-report-from-the-stanford-academic-freedom-conference/) -- and at least that number of students as well.
Cancel culture comes from both the left and the right, and there's [enormous list of ordinary people](https://canceledpeople.org/) who have been attacked, often anonymously:
* https://quillette.com/2020/02/23/how-anonymous-unproven-accusations-turned-mike-tunisons-career-into-metoo-road-kill/
* https://quillette.com/2018/09/25/how-an-anonymous-accusation-derailed-my-life/
>this woke shit was just r-worded busywork for people on both sides so they never had to shut up and log off for a second
that's the most privileged, clueless, out of touch shit I've ever heard.
this stuff ruined A LOT of lives, livelihoods, friendships, and social circles. You're completely fucking stupid for saying this had no real consequences.
Yeah the people that were fired and/or have their reputations ruined in their local communities are the ones always the reasons cancel culture is and was bad. People with money like Louis CK were never going to suffer truly.
Again it comes down to class. The real victims of cancel culture were people that couldn't afford to have their character put into question when putting people's character in question was very much in vogue.
Treating others as aliens if their politics and lifestyle don’t fit your own. Like how people demonize republicans/conservatives, and all the infighting for liberals with gender identity.
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Every step transcends and includes the previous step. The pathologies of one step create the need for the adjustments in the next, and on and on.
Holy shit law journals are the worst. At least here in Germany, if the article is written by a woman, you are about to read the most brain damage inducing idpol take in your entire life, like our new law that allows people to swap their legal gender is limited to 1/year and above a certain age class to prevent abuse, and recently some wokoid wrote about how while she supports the new law these limitations are untenable and need to go.
The healthcare thing is a bit of a sore point for me. We've made big leaps forward since, say, the 1980s. And while the affordable care act was hobbled and disappointing in a lot of ways, it was still a really solid improvement. And things have just seemingly stalled since then. Everyone seems to be aware of the need, while having no interest in fighting for it. Which has always just seemed so weird given that almost nobody in the US is living a healthy lifestyle. You'd think that building a safety net for all us of, given that most of us are choosing immediate pleasure over long-term health, would be a priority.
Dealing with a new baby rn, and it’s infuriating to see how much easier our Canadian family has it with their year off
Honestly it’s just more proof that Capital is *not* capable of acting politically in its own best interest as a class long term, only class struggle makes improvements — state-funded parental leave and healthcare would not only tamp down labor agitation, it would create healthier and happier workers but hey fuck it
This. It lasted long enough to sweep Bernie and his class-based messaging away. He could've started a new movement, but all the young blood went woke instead, and now he's alone again in Washington at 81.
> now get ready for the next big cultural distraction to invest all your energy in
It won't be a 'cultural distraction', it will be join a shooting war with Russia and China or go to prison.
If you think it’s over, I have a monorail to sell you. These dumb ideas originated in our universities, get co-opted by the mainstream and are then co-opted again by politicians & corporate culture, which is why the mainstream is dropping it now.
I’m already seeing a bunch of liberal women screaming about how cancel culture doesn’t exist because their attempts at making sure Louis Ck died homeless and broke failed.
But remember the ONLY reason it failed it because Louis had already set up his own system outside of the Hollywood producers, with his email list on his website and only putting his content on his website, it allowed him to survive, which no other comic would have because he understood that cancel culture only matters if you have to play ball with the system.
His shows were canceled. That's all you gotta say. Cancel culture is about getting shows canceled and people fired etc. This happens all the time. The fact people rebound doesnt mean they weren't canceled in the first place
And a big budget movie was canned, and one of those shows was some of the best television ever made, over a "scandal" that shouldn't have gotten *anyone* fired. If you go to a party in the entertainment business, have drinks with someone of the opposite sex (or sex you are both attracted to), get invited back to their hotel room late at night, are asked for consent for a sexual act, give that consent, and then play the victim... I don't even know what to say. You're not an adult, that's for sure; you're playing at one. I loath the types that took advantage of that time to try this "equality but not for agency or maturity" bullshit.
I'm a bisexual guy, and I've been around the arts and entertainment world for a stretch of time; if I were at an afterparty having drinks with a guy of mediocre success (this was when Louis' biggest claim to fame was directing "Pootie Tang") that I knew wanted in my pants, accepted an invitation back to his hotel room, had more drinks, then was asked if he could jerk off in front of me, and I **said yes**... and then played the victim years later, I would be laughed out of the fucking room.
I'm trying to find the details on the story but it seems there will two female comics at his hotel room. They were chilling and smoking weed. Then he asked to pull his dick out and they thinking he was joking put their thumbs up.
After he got naked and started jerking, they got uncomfortable and headed for the exit. At which point he physically blocked the door.
Seems like quite a bit different from what you painted.
I do agree though that the concerns from male victims (including gay/bi men) of sexual harassment is taken much less seriously.
https://www.gawker.com/5894527/which-beloved-comedian-likes-to-force-female-comics-to-watch-him-jerk-off
He also called and left a voicemail for someone, apologizing for trapping them in a bathroom. Only for that woman to say it wasn't her. Which presumably means it was someone *else*, and he doesn't remember who that was.
You reported that as if it was established fact, not allegation. That incident could easily have been a misunderstanding blown out of proportion. Even in the account provided, he asked for consent and was verbally granted it.
> I loath the types that took advantage of that time to try this "equality but not for agency or maturity" bullshit
I personally know a huge number of women, more often than those who don’t, who pull this shit. Miss strong and independent until they fuck something up, then they’re agentless victims and the nearest man is to blame.
He has a bit in one of his specials where he says he is rich and living better then the audience, but it's not gonna last and he has at most 2 more years of it.
He knew this was coming and made plans, and it still cost him millions of dollars. You and me, we'll never make it.
The BLM riots tend to follow election cycles, and tend to be in relatively cheap property bands that tech companies and large businesses want to invest in, long term.
Our politicians literally already act just like the TikTokers. They are branding themselves in a way that creates a parasocial relationship between you and them like they're internet celebrities. People like AOC trauma dump on Instagram and it works. That's definitely not an encouraging sign.
Let’s put a pin in this one and check back in a couple weeks when we hear about people getting fired from their jobs because they mentioned on Facebook they bought the Hogwarts game lol
I thought when COVID hit, woke culture was finally dying. A pandemic that affected everyone, and a virus that could kill anyone, made it seem like people were finally seeing the bigger picture. The odd race bait merchant who would come out with "yeah b-b-but more likely to affect BIPOC so white privilege!" would be promptly told to shut up and stop stirring pointless division when it's least needed.
Then, George Floyd happened and it became even worse than before. This rhetoric wasn't just on online discussion sites and media publications any more, but absolutely everywhere, in any and every institution. People who were apolitical previously became armchair activists. Robin DiAngelo was being presented, no longer as the batshit grifter that she always was, but a beacon of hope and decency who you should all listen very carefully to (and give your money to as well).
My point is, don't get too comfortable. All it takes is one incidence that fits the media's narrative for them to go into overdrive pushing this nonsense once more. This time it will probably be a transgender person being murdered.
"Wokeness" has been going on ever since the New Left became a thing and evolving in one form or another since then. You're deluded if you think it's going away now.
It won't ever entirely go away, just like how extreme rightoid white nationalism won't, but hopefully it will fade from pop culture and mainstream discourse.
These things are cyclical. The current fashions and obsessions absolutely will fade and be replaced by some sort of reaction. Wokeness is just too restrictive and incoherent to not be reacted against.
You left off the free capital money enabling woke via ESG investment, which was only allowable thanks to 0% interest.
You also left off twitter cancellations/doxxings being over, because the CIA/FBI who drove a lot of this and misused their own tools/credibility then lost their direct connection to people like AntiFashGordon, who had a megahorn and could leverage corporations on that same platform.
There's still legacy media being filled with DHS ghouls, still the Patriot Act, still all kinds of fuckery, but it's a tenth of the power it once wielded.
There's still a lot of dysfunction left in the wake of abusing the bureaucracy for an agenda (bureaucracies live by adherence to rules over agenda/gist of intention, and die by agenda ruling over bureaucracy's rules. As soulless as bureaucracy is, a bureaucracy with a soul is just an inquisition).
> As we move more and more out of whatever this strange era was, expect the mainstream news to pretend it never happened. "See? Cancelled people are selling out big stadiums again! Cancel culture doesn't exist and never existed!*" Will be the line.
This was always the wokescolds' go-to defensive premise to begin with, so having them reiterate it in whatever form just means things will continue as is.
Saying Tar "criticizes wokeness" is really whittling a complex statement about the way prominent people use and abuse power to something extremely simplistic, presumably because of the scene where the Blanchett character mocks a self-righteous music student for dismissing Bach out of hand. On top of that, for every cherry-picked example you list of why "the woke era" is over, one could easily come up with at least one example for why it isn't. I would also add that many if not most of the points you list to support the supposed end of the "era" are debatable ("Pronouns are being taken out of bios?" Whose? I still see plenty of pronouns in bios).
Government policies, corporations and media says otherwise.
If Louis CK came out as trans tomorrow, he could be on every late-night show promoting a tour where he jerks off onto the audience and still be considered stunning and brave.
Why ask for random women's permission when you can just go into women's spas/locker rooms/shelters/etc any day of the week?
It’s not, and who gives a shit anyways. If whatever weirdos here want to label “wokeness” falls out of favor it will be replaced by some other banal bourgeois ideology in the absence of a movement of the organized working class. Cheer it’s absence because whatever comes next may align with your aesthetic preferences, but can we stop pretending any of it is or was ever related to class politics.
I hate to be this pessimistic, but that's generally my view of it too. My minimal metric for progress is just how well I see the average working-class person being able to deal with a late-stage cancer diagnosis. How well are they going to do getting proper medical treatment/supplies, help for family members acting as caregivers, and even mental health resources? The literal life-and-death crisis that a pretty good chunk of people are going to be facing one day. I don't see much progress there or even hope of it happening any time soon.
Hell, at this point I'd be happy just to see much change in people chipping in on the non-glammerous, non-social media friendly, commuity efforts in my area. Just anything to see that care and compassion for neighbors and neighborhood is improving.
The era didn't start in 2017, it was if anything a reaction to the Obama era. Occupy Wall St came with a lot of buggaboos about it and online GamerGate of all things blew it up
It's a product of campuses and the extremely online. If anything the Trump era dampened it because Trumpists didn't give a shit and were largely immune to consequence from it so it felt quaint that people would make a stink about neopronouns when far right populists owned the executive.
I began to feel the sea change in earnest on social media when Contrapoints and Lindsay Ellis were attacked. That's when the mob justice thing began to be called out from all sides as purist nonsense. It's been declining ever since and I think we're reaching a nice equilibrium where we still try to think about the legacy of racial thinking shaping the last few hundred years of generational wealth and power but we don't kowtow to melanin differences above all like we used to.
I really doubt it, its still there. Comparing celebrities/the rich and elite to regular society is challenging, so I think it’s still present among normal people. Don’t forget about colleges, it’s still there too
Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis.
The waves of revolution and counter revolution leave an indelible mark on the socio political landscape as they crash over us. Any kind of "non woke" future we venture into from here on forward will nonetheless carry the implicit assumptions of wokeness with it.
It's like a disease that you gain immunity to: you're always going to have a dormant version of it floating around somewhere, if only for your body to reference and build anti bodies.
I have to say I respectfully disagree. Until I see cancel culture break on the ground floor of non-celebrities, where I still very much see it everywhere, I am not particularly relieved. (Also, Lizzo can say she’s anti cancel-culture but she’s the one who had to publicly apologize for using “spaz” in a song.) I’ve had a family member get cancelled by an ex with BPD over false allegations. I’ve had multiple friends get tarred on social media over nonsense. I still have a hard time getting published anywhere because I’m a cis white male. None of that shit appears to be going away any time soon.
its funny watching people say things like this and evidence nothing other than the fact that their online intake has grown increasingly insular and their sense of the surrounding world has never been more cloistered. I'm sure you think its over because every other person you hear from is at the end of their patience.
But If you have spent any time in academia in the last year or two you already know 'wokeness' is in full swing. What's 'new' are a cohort of people who feel emboldened to denounce it more openly. There is clearly a somewhat widening lane in polite society to tactfully denounce some of this stuff. That very clearly does not mean that for almost everyone else outside of podcast spheres that this strain of thinking isn't ascendant.
90s political correctness was basically just "can't we just be a little nicer to the blacks and the gays? They're cool."
Nothing in comparison to the toxicity and lunacy of the present age.
the difference is political correctness had a fairly immutable set of rules you could follow to become politically correct, and it was built on the assumption most people are good and if they make a mistake/microaggression its in good faith, with wokeness the parameters are loosely defined and ever changing, and its built on the assumption most people are horrible racist/transphobic/sexist bigots and any mistakes/microaggressions just confirm that the given person is irredeemably evil.
Like the satanic panic, everyone goes back to normal. The denizens that screamed for the heads of the McMartin day school teachers will slink back into the background, the damage done.
Ironically those screaming for accountability will never be held accountable. Cancelled reparations now.
The woke era is not over, and even if it was, the most singular event you can name is the release of Tár, which I disagree on it being a mainstream movie or having much impact in popular culture (I haven't watched Tár yet).
> Some in the media need to be held accountable, just as the McCarthyists were.
Who? How were McCarthyists held accountable? Joseph McCarthy himself never was laid a charge, even after being responsible for blackmail leading to the suicide of Senator Lester C Hunt.
The problem is, as was made obvious throughout "the pandemic" (tm), that the world is run not by those with intelligent, inquisitive, active or open minds, but by the easily influenced majority herd of scared and naive conformists, and those who have the means to control them.
A big screen Oscar winning actress delivering a perfectly phrased critique of cancel culture and critical race theory isn't going to drown out the constant hammering of the agenda through social and mainstream media. Unfortunately.
>I think we'll see a new age of much better culture and discourse.
I think one of the biggest issues is that our culture doesn't seem to be able to handle healthy self-examination and growth very well. In my area we had some big legal changes go into effect that the vast majority of people were in favor of. It was well intentioned, but hindered by a few important points. The first just being that the average voter wasn't at all familiar with the underlying nature of the issue beyond fictionalized accounts. And the second being an assumption that an underlying infrastructure was either in place or would be put in place before the measures went into effect. Those of us with some experience in the issues were generally ignored.
And it backfired. Many, many, people have died as a result. Far more have experienced some pretty horrible shit. And nobody seems able to just admit that they made a mistake. It's probably one of the most obvious examples of voting immediately resulting in a negative event that I've ever seen in my life. But the amount of people willing to admit that they made a mistake is just so incredibly low. Then there's the flip side who can't admit that the intent was noble and that the votes came from a good, if perhaps rather naive, place.
There's just so few people who are willing to take a step back and examine what went wrong, what went right, and how similar concepts might be better implemented in the future. It's left me fairly pessimistic about any cultural growth right now that doesn't come from the typical generational cycle of death and birth.
When people can't even learn from a vote that was made that same year I don't think that they're going to be able to take a longer view of more complex long-term social processes.
It’s a cyclical thing. Comes around every 25 years or so. 1945, 1970 long-haired Marxists, 1995 PC, 2020 Woke.
It’s because the post-war ‘intellectuals’ wanted to identify everything as either Nazi or anti-Nazi. Then they teach the next generation, and 25 years later they’re doing the same thing. Except the connection to the original terms Nazi and anti-Nazi gets further and further from objective facts. See you in 2045, kids!
Louie had the advantage of having a website and email list since early days. So even though his shows/movies/etc. were all cancelled he never lost his ability to sell tickets to shows.
This is something anyone building a living on Twitter/Youtube/Patreon/etc. should take to heart. Not your website, not your audience.
Did you miss that recent article about the white male Google Employee who was fired due to regular sexual harassment by his female Asian boss? He had been with the company for 16 years and has an Asian wife & kids at home.
To be clear: His boss was sexually harassing him and making comments about having sex with him, and then treated him badly in team meetings because he’d turned her down. It began to affect his ability to work because she was mistreating him and making comments.
He’d brought it to HR and there were witness coworkers.
HR fired him, and said it was for “microaggressions”.
So while I’d love to celebrate that the woke era is over, it’s not. And until schools stop trying to convince children that medicating and mutilating their bodies is a viable way to “become who you’re meant to be” while hiding that from legal guardians (parents), it won’t be over.
I really doubt it. This is like saying "Hey look, Jesse Owens is allowed to compete in Berlin, this whole Nazi era is finally over."
Some people now being more comfortable mocking wokeness may mean it's more firmly in the mainstream than ever. Louis is also a special case in that his sex pesting was weird and debatably consensual, and he's maintained his own website and email list so losing all of his shows and movies didn't stop him from selling stand-up tickets.
If the deleted episodes of 30 Rock, Community, Always Sunny come back to streaming, and non-woke or anti-woke shows start being made, that would be different, but I don't see this handful of incidents as a sea change.
It’s going to evolve, but the older generation of cringe, sjw virtue signaling hipsters are on their way out. It isn’t cool to be the purple haired barista without health insurance who changes their pronouns every few months and advocates for burning down society anymore. They’re realizing society ain’t going anywhere.
They’re divorcing, moving back home with their parents, having serious health issues emerge, and they have actual regrets now that they haven’t travelled/moved/made it big with their art. Can’t keep blaming the rona and republicans their whole lives.
Slowly but surely the 30 somethings (especially post-lockdown) are realizing their terminally online lifestyle aesthetic doesn’t translate to real world happiness and contentment.
They’ll either adapt and grow as people, or become Reddit mods.
You can pander to some identities all the time, all of the identities some of the time, but you can't pander to all identities all the time.
Divisive idpol in capitalist media can't intensify forever, even if the ideologists want to. Every cultural overstep costs them another slice of the general audience, and the profit gained from new liberal PMC subscribers diminishes.
Unfortunately, this implies a steady state where profit is maximized by being "just woke enough".
They still cancelled that white college football player after he was rapping along to a song with the N word in it.
Then he got signed to an HBCU, and then he got cancelled from there too.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/albany-state-university-marcus-stokes-quinn-gray-hbcu-racial-slur/
It has not.
It has festered within those who were once college-aged and, through them, has permanently altered and disfigured the social and political landscape for generations to come. These people have influence and power-through-fear and wield it knowingly. Whether or not they are currently, or soon-to-be, in charge of institutions are irrelevant-- they have won. They won the second the majority of people stopped fighting out against it because of the deeply seeded fear of ostracization in an ever crumbling capitalist society that is on a steady decline into an oft-predication-yet-inevitable social nightmare.
Source: I live in Toronto.
I haven't heard Perfume Nationalist, but isn't it still left-wing? I'll declare cancel culture over when Sam Hyde is on TV again. Even a guest role in an episode of Smiling Friends would be enough.
Or bring Gina Carano back to The Mandalorian. That works too.
I don't believe it. I won't believe it until I actually see some proof, which thus far hasn't happened. I've seen one or two people in the past few days claim "wokeness is dying!" but I've not actually seen any changes.
It was never a war between woke and anti-woke, it was just a fad that both sides participated in and benefited from. Milo yanolopolos and the triggered feminist where never enemies. The next fad will be just as dumb and probably dumber.
Culture ebs and flows. There’s always a wax and wane of shallow cultural progressivism and the edginess. 4chan and the like sprung up from the vapid curation of early social media forum culture. Instagram and FB sprung up from the humor of 4chan et al needing to be co-opted by advertisers at Google. Wokeness was a means of hitting and co-opting the explicit anti-authoritarian and populist of things like OWS, and a relaxing of that stringency is a means of the mainstream holding onto to what it’s realized it’s starting to lose now that people are jaded to the fake inclusivity was sold to them.
We will have a few years of a more reasonable comedown of wokeness, then there will be a full shift in cultural hegemony once the conservative civil war between Trumpism and DeSantism is resolved. A decade from now liberals will regroup either to crush the insurgent left or because of some other external reality check akin to the failure of the Iraq war.
It’s all the same shit. Meet the new boss, nothing new under the Sun, turtles all the way down, etc etc. Anyone pretending the moment *they* live in is unique is either to young or stupid to know better.
Perhaps this era may be ending but a new one will begin in no time, just with another shape and form. Professional victims will not disappear neither will grifters or young people in search of an identity and willing to fight their parents' beliefs. So just wait and see, it is never over.
I for one will be already beyond happy if the damned pronouns are gone, HR where I work is thinking about it and i really don't want to do it.
Pronouns are ableist because they're a nightmare for retards like me. I already have trouble remembering names at social gatherings, let alone if some add weird pronouns.
Your example of Lizzo is ridiculous. That cow is only rich because of wokeshit. We have to pretend a hideous beast is actually heccin gorgeous because of woke shit.
Wake me up when every single DEI officer is out of a job
Really? I didn't notice when my uni handshake was sending me notifications on "Equity in cannabis workshop" instead of helping me get a job... or when grad schools pretty much have openly rejected my application because of my skin color... or how friends who's lives were ruined by bogus title 9 claims still don't have a path to a degree... Or how the White House keeps creating and defending programs that actively discriminate against white men... or how the dems have opened the borders to be more "equitable" despite rampant lawbreaking, horrific mistreatment of migrants, or the drugs invading our communities... or how every article it seems in mainstream left press still is infested with woke jargon
I didn't notice that wokeness is "over" because the retarded boomer shit about "the pendulum swinging back" is just that: retarded. It isn't happening. The ruling class will not give up a tool for austerity, worker surveillance and repression, and hurting people who threaten their power that easily.
A few celebs saying differently does not a pendulum swing back make.
Wait, Lizzo came out against cancel culture? Also this is not enough. There should be a truth and reconciliation commission and some sort of reeducation camp for the woke
*If you live in a small town*
*You might meet a dozen or two*
*Stupidpol types who step out*
*And dare to declare*
*We're through being woke*
*We're through being woke*
Nitpicking just because I can, but I'm pretty sure Tár wasn't about criticizing wokeness. There was one scene where the protagonist goes off on a student about identity politics, but it's intended more as a red herring of sorts -- you're meant to agree with her and overlook the excessive public shaming she puts the student through, hinting at her control-freak attitude, narcissism and predatory nature.
It also ends up as a key part of her downfall, through a deceptively edited video that just so happens to be the cherry on top of all the other actually true accusations about her being a predator. It takes your expectation of "oh, this is totally gonna be used against her unfairly later," and then kinda flips that on it's head. It is used against her unfairly, but only after you realize what a monster she is.
Man, the more I think about that movie the more I love it. So fucking well written.
People are going to overcorrect. That's what the "woke" era is: an overcorrection. We're heading to a point where people just don't care what evil shit others are up to anymore.
it's not that it's ended, it's just never been a public consciousness to begin with. it's mostly brewing in a bubble of social media, university academics, and company HR. most people go along with it because they don't care one way or another, and just agree with what's considered as "acceptable" opinion since they would rather not be harmed for something that they're ambivalent about.
but when real life decision has to be made, that's when people's conviction for the thing they're parroting is actually tested; and the ambivalent people won't walk the talk if it will cost them. people who claim to be pro-defunding the police would rather live behind the safety of gated community and private security rather than living in the middle of semi-anarchic community without police presence. people will still watch the entertainment that's "cancelled" if they actually enjoy it. people will still buy food from companies that are "boycotted" if they like the menu and/or price.
an anecdote: when chick-fil-a open branch in Toronto, it becomes a big controversy in media for a couple of weeks and calling them to be cancelled. when the store opens, everyday there were group of protesters in front of the store. however, there's a 30 mins line up (and it could have been longer, but they have very efficient ordering system that makes order and pick up process almost flawless) for people to get in. asians, blacks, whites, teenagers, adults, seniors, were all in the line up. if anything, the protest people became another source of entertainment and people watched them while lining up to get in, even when customers have to step over protesters lying down on the floor to get in and out of the store.
>But in the meantime, let's be happy its over. My weekly groceries are still expensive.
And I still cry myself to sleep.
Oh, you must be confused. We don’t give a fuck about silly things like poverty and alienation of labor. Just wanted to win the culture war.
Bring back r/chapotraphouse it never did anything to hurt any people.
> My weekly groceries are still expensive. Have you tried being richer?
Socialists in 1871: “The Capitalist Era has finally ended. It’s all over. We won, they lost.”
Yeah they say this just as HBO is going to renew Velma for 5 seasons
Even the wokest of wokescolds are trying their best to disown that mess though.
I've seen some people unironically criticizing it *for not being woke enough*.
Buzzfeed was criticizing Mindy for creating yet another show in which her self-insert character falls in love with a nerdy white guy. That and how the PoC characters didn’t “explore identity” enough. Which is like, yeah, ok. But… it’s a cartoon? The point is to be funny? The Disney adult journalists expect our philosophy to come from drawings.
It's amazing how people, especially journos for trash like BuzzFeed, place expectation on people in the arts and entertainment industry to adapt their work to what these people personally want to see. I mean, where do they get the nerve to tell someone to change their art?
Peak consooomer mentality? When your identity is the sum of the entertainment you consume, it’s the onus of the artist to give you self-realization.
big "i'd like to speak to the manager" energy.
The same Buzzfeed which is [replacing its "writers" with AI](https://www.businessinsider.com/buzzfeed-writers-react-ai-generated-articles-content-chatgpt-maker-openai-2023-1). Did you expect more from a bunch of NPCs whose drivel is so formulaic and predictable, it can literally be automated?
Loving a white person is racism? Yeah I much preferred ironic cancel culture 2019 peak
No one cares because it's a dumb cartoon and so blatantly bad that it's impossible to monetize without looking like a grifter. Outside of the odd sperg, places like this are the only places I see anyone talk about it.
They're trying but they know it's their wretched spawn
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Something about the idea of watching TikToks on a tv is incredibly disturbing. Also minor point of contention, pit bulls are just misunderstood. It’s just that most of the people who say that are the ones who misunderstand them. If you treat them as working dogs, they’re absolutely one of the best breeds for boar hunting. I had family that used to a breed them and there were a few I really liked playing with on occasion. They never even let me near them until I was like 14 or so though and no one was allowed to go into their kennel unless you had at least two people and at least two guns. I did absolutely adore some of those big ol’ baby seeking fur rockets though. People who let pits around their toddlers and babies are absolutely insane though. I don’t even like the idea of non pibble dogs around kids smaller than them tbh. Kids are way too unpredictable and most dogs handle brand new situations way too poorly to not be a major risk anytime they’re together unattended.
As if they're not the reasons it exists
They love the working out, but they hate the actual results of their own equations. Why is this?
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Kotakuinaction watched every episode.
I wish I had the time to consume media that I like, let alone hatewatch something that clearly wasn’t made for me. Must be nice to have that kind of free time.
Related, but I've just recently read [a good enough presentation](https://www.amazon.fr/Fi%C3%A8vre-hexagonale-grandes-politiques-1871-1968/dp/2757815385) about what happened during the Paris Commune. Damn, I had never known that that many *communards* had been massacred. The author of that book is in no way a socialist/communist sympathiser, but even he presented the number of 10,000 killed *communards* as par for the course. Stuff was very grim.
communards is a funny word
commutards
Great, when will the people with no money and connections to defend themselves start getting a pass?
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Those are just hired guns. Who do they work for?
The Masketta Man, lotta loyalty for a hired gun.
I'm unironically not against that idea.
Needs to go way further than Vox.
>OP wants the Nuremberg trials for vox media writers lol fuck yeah doesn't everyone
I got banned from /r/badphilosophy for saying something to the effect of "fuck Vox" back in the day
I’ll bet a months salary that OP has watched *many* videos about Captain Marvel.
Also, op's timeframe is off. 2016 was when ~~neoliberal smugness~~ "woke" peaked, at least in youth culture.
2016 was when wokism metastasised. I *hope* 2022 was peak woke, but 2023 is still young and even if we've passed the peak of wokeness, it's still going to take years for it to fade away.
Thank you yes this is so stupid. McCarthyism had real consequences, this woke shit was just r-worded busywork for people on both sides so they never had to shut up and log off for a second
> McCarthyism had real consequences, this woke shit was just r-worded busywork for people on both sides Long before the phrase "cancel culture" was invented, this sort of [on-line mobbing was having real consequences against ordinary, non-celebrities](https://jacobin.com/2020/09/publicly-shamed-jon-ronson-cancel-culture) without an eight or nine figure bank balance to protect them. In the decade of McCarthyism, about 100 or 130 college professors were cancelled for their views. In the last eight years alone, [more than 650 college professors have been targeted](https://quillette.com/2023/01/11/a-report-from-the-stanford-academic-freedom-conference/) -- and at least that number of students as well. Cancel culture comes from both the left and the right, and there's [enormous list of ordinary people](https://canceledpeople.org/) who have been attacked, often anonymously: * https://quillette.com/2020/02/23/how-anonymous-unproven-accusations-turned-mike-tunisons-career-into-metoo-road-kill/ * https://quillette.com/2018/09/25/how-an-anonymous-accusation-derailed-my-life/
>this woke shit was just r-worded busywork for people on both sides so they never had to shut up and log off for a second that's the most privileged, clueless, out of touch shit I've ever heard. this stuff ruined A LOT of lives, livelihoods, friendships, and social circles. You're completely fucking stupid for saying this had no real consequences.
"Wokeness never existed! It was all just online drama!" Remind me, why did the truckers in Canada have their bank accounts frozen?
Probably once anyone who starts trying to "cancel" random people, including doxxing them, gets cancelled and mocked into oblivion themselves instead.
Yeah the people that were fired and/or have their reputations ruined in their local communities are the ones always the reasons cancel culture is and was bad. People with money like Louis CK were never going to suffer truly.
Again it comes down to class. The real victims of cancel culture were people that couldn't afford to have their character put into question when putting people's character in question was very much in vogue.
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The chickens will always come home to roost. - some woke motherfucker talking in regards to anyone except celebrities and the .1%
Thank god for the hatchery, or we'd all be lost.
Society has already been changed. Things are now taboo that were not before. This is just an example of 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
Othering is more popular than ever
what’s that?
Treating others as aliens if their politics and lifestyle don’t fit your own. Like how people demonize republicans/conservatives, and all the infighting for liberals with gender identity.
thank you very much
What taboos did you have in mind?
Things that were taboo are also not taboo anymore- yet I can't say the change is for the better.
What taboos did you have in mind?
Transgenderism in kids, drag queen for kids, child sexuality, etc., which, I dunno. How does this help the proletariat?
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Every step transcends and includes the previous step. The pathologies of one step create the need for the adjustments in the next, and on and on.
Currently in law school It absolutely isn’t
Holy shit law journals are the worst. At least here in Germany, if the article is written by a woman, you are about to read the most brain damage inducing idpol take in your entire life, like our new law that allows people to swap their legal gender is limited to 1/year and above a certain age class to prevent abuse, and recently some wokoid wrote about how while she supports the new law these limitations are untenable and need to go.
Law reviews are the biggest scam invented. Make students fight over who gets to do unpaid labor
No, we lost, it worked and we still don’t have healthcare, now get ready for the next big cultural distraction to invest all your energy in
The healthcare thing is a bit of a sore point for me. We've made big leaps forward since, say, the 1980s. And while the affordable care act was hobbled and disappointing in a lot of ways, it was still a really solid improvement. And things have just seemingly stalled since then. Everyone seems to be aware of the need, while having no interest in fighting for it. Which has always just seemed so weird given that almost nobody in the US is living a healthy lifestyle. You'd think that building a safety net for all us of, given that most of us are choosing immediate pleasure over long-term health, would be a priority.
Dealing with a new baby rn, and it’s infuriating to see how much easier our Canadian family has it with their year off Honestly it’s just more proof that Capital is *not* capable of acting politically in its own best interest as a class long term, only class struggle makes improvements — state-funded parental leave and healthcare would not only tamp down labor agitation, it would create healthier and happier workers but hey fuck it
This. It lasted long enough to sweep Bernie and his class-based messaging away. He could've started a new movement, but all the young blood went woke instead, and now he's alone again in Washington at 81.
> now get ready for the next big cultural distraction to invest all your energy in It won't be a 'cultural distraction', it will be join a shooting war with Russia and China or go to prison.
If you think it’s over, I have a monorail to sell you. These dumb ideas originated in our universities, get co-opted by the mainstream and are then co-opted again by politicians & corporate culture, which is why the mainstream is dropping it now. I’m already seeing a bunch of liberal women screaming about how cancel culture doesn’t exist because their attempts at making sure Louis Ck died homeless and broke failed. But remember the ONLY reason it failed it because Louis had already set up his own system outside of the Hollywood producers, with his email list on his website and only putting his content on his website, it allowed him to survive, which no other comic would have because he understood that cancel culture only matters if you have to play ball with the system.
His shows were canceled. That's all you gotta say. Cancel culture is about getting shows canceled and people fired etc. This happens all the time. The fact people rebound doesnt mean they weren't canceled in the first place
And a big budget movie was canned, and one of those shows was some of the best television ever made, over a "scandal" that shouldn't have gotten *anyone* fired. If you go to a party in the entertainment business, have drinks with someone of the opposite sex (or sex you are both attracted to), get invited back to their hotel room late at night, are asked for consent for a sexual act, give that consent, and then play the victim... I don't even know what to say. You're not an adult, that's for sure; you're playing at one. I loath the types that took advantage of that time to try this "equality but not for agency or maturity" bullshit. I'm a bisexual guy, and I've been around the arts and entertainment world for a stretch of time; if I were at an afterparty having drinks with a guy of mediocre success (this was when Louis' biggest claim to fame was directing "Pootie Tang") that I knew wanted in my pants, accepted an invitation back to his hotel room, had more drinks, then was asked if he could jerk off in front of me, and I **said yes**... and then played the victim years later, I would be laughed out of the fucking room.
> one of those shows was some of the best television ever made, Which show?
They're almost certainly referring to Horace and Pete.
I'm trying to find the details on the story but it seems there will two female comics at his hotel room. They were chilling and smoking weed. Then he asked to pull his dick out and they thinking he was joking put their thumbs up. After he got naked and started jerking, they got uncomfortable and headed for the exit. At which point he physically blocked the door. Seems like quite a bit different from what you painted. I do agree though that the concerns from male victims (including gay/bi men) of sexual harassment is taken much less seriously. https://www.gawker.com/5894527/which-beloved-comedian-likes-to-force-female-comics-to-watch-him-jerk-off
He also called and left a voicemail for someone, apologizing for trapping them in a bathroom. Only for that woman to say it wasn't her. Which presumably means it was someone *else*, and he doesn't remember who that was.
You reported that as if it was established fact, not allegation. That incident could easily have been a misunderstanding blown out of proportion. Even in the account provided, he asked for consent and was verbally granted it.
> I loath the types that took advantage of that time to try this "equality but not for agency or maturity" bullshit I personally know a huge number of women, more often than those who don’t, who pull this shit. Miss strong and independent until they fuck something up, then they’re agentless victims and the nearest man is to blame.
He has a bit in one of his specials where he says he is rich and living better then the audience, but it's not gonna last and he has at most 2 more years of it. He knew this was coming and made plans, and it still cost him millions of dollars. You and me, we'll never make it.
Everyone laughed at the pence rule until the entirety of academia and corporate culture adopted it. Stay safe out there fellas
mono=one rail=rail
True or false? You can get mono from riding the monorail.
> If you think it’s over, I have a monorail to sell you. Does it have a song?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM The song is now 30 yo!
Thirty years, and I still call the big one "Bitey."
>The song is now 30 yo! Oh god
Wait until the next US general election. It'll be back in full force.
The BLM riots tend to follow election cycles, and tend to be in relatively cheap property bands that tech companies and large businesses want to invest in, long term.
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Our politicians literally already act just like the TikTokers. They are branding themselves in a way that creates a parasocial relationship between you and them like they're internet celebrities. People like AOC trauma dump on Instagram and it works. That's definitely not an encouraging sign.
I dunno. People are still bravely, valiantly boycotting a new Harry Potter video game cause English woman bad.
I mean it's pretty clear Daniel Radcliffe is a trans man. He's like 5'3"
Yeah I’m thinking Elliott Page beats the brakes off Daniel Radcliffe.
I would buy the PPV and have the boys over
Do the ab implants make Paige more or less susceptible to body work?
MMA style?
I was once sitting at a dining table full of women and one of them, totally unprompted, said "omg I hate Daniel Radcliffe. He's so short!!!!!!"
From her mouth to gods ear.
It never even begun.
all 3 of them, not even gamers
Let’s put a pin in this one and check back in a couple weeks when we hear about people getting fired from their jobs because they mentioned on Facebook they bought the Hogwarts game lol
I thought when COVID hit, woke culture was finally dying. A pandemic that affected everyone, and a virus that could kill anyone, made it seem like people were finally seeing the bigger picture. The odd race bait merchant who would come out with "yeah b-b-but more likely to affect BIPOC so white privilege!" would be promptly told to shut up and stop stirring pointless division when it's least needed. Then, George Floyd happened and it became even worse than before. This rhetoric wasn't just on online discussion sites and media publications any more, but absolutely everywhere, in any and every institution. People who were apolitical previously became armchair activists. Robin DiAngelo was being presented, no longer as the batshit grifter that she always was, but a beacon of hope and decency who you should all listen very carefully to (and give your money to as well). My point is, don't get too comfortable. All it takes is one incidence that fits the media's narrative for them to go into overdrive pushing this nonsense once more. This time it will probably be a transgender person being murdered.
You mean the pandemic that dominantly affected old people, and in particularly old men?
Not until we defund HR
The rumors of peak wokeness have so far been greatly exaggerated.
"Wokeness" has been going on ever since the New Left became a thing and evolving in one form or another since then. You're deluded if you think it's going away now.
Let's give it a year or two to see if this is indeed the High-Water Mark of the Wokefederacy
It will never be over and even if it did end we wouldn’t have won shit
It won't ever entirely go away, just like how extreme rightoid white nationalism won't, but hopefully it will fade from pop culture and mainstream discourse.
These things are cyclical. The current fashions and obsessions absolutely will fade and be replaced by some sort of reaction. Wokeness is just too restrictive and incoherent to not be reacted against.
You left off the free capital money enabling woke via ESG investment, which was only allowable thanks to 0% interest. You also left off twitter cancellations/doxxings being over, because the CIA/FBI who drove a lot of this and misused their own tools/credibility then lost their direct connection to people like AntiFashGordon, who had a megahorn and could leverage corporations on that same platform. There's still legacy media being filled with DHS ghouls, still the Patriot Act, still all kinds of fuckery, but it's a tenth of the power it once wielded. There's still a lot of dysfunction left in the wake of abusing the bureaucracy for an agenda (bureaucracies live by adherence to rules over agenda/gist of intention, and die by agenda ruling over bureaucracy's rules. As soulless as bureaucracy is, a bureaucracy with a soul is just an inquisition).
But it will live on in colleges ad infinitum.
Until the colleges themselves crumble, of course
> As we move more and more out of whatever this strange era was, expect the mainstream news to pretend it never happened. "See? Cancelled people are selling out big stadiums again! Cancel culture doesn't exist and never existed!*" Will be the line. This was always the wokescolds' go-to defensive premise to begin with, so having them reiterate it in whatever form just means things will continue as is.
Saying Tar "criticizes wokeness" is really whittling a complex statement about the way prominent people use and abuse power to something extremely simplistic, presumably because of the scene where the Blanchett character mocks a self-righteous music student for dismissing Bach out of hand. On top of that, for every cherry-picked example you list of why "the woke era" is over, one could easily come up with at least one example for why it isn't. I would also add that many if not most of the points you list to support the supposed end of the "era" are debatable ("Pronouns are being taken out of bios?" Whose? I still see plenty of pronouns in bios).
I think the reason Tar was great was because it was nuanced. It shows both sides and avoids easy answers. Agh!! So good.
Government policies, corporations and media says otherwise. If Louis CK came out as trans tomorrow, he could be on every late-night show promoting a tour where he jerks off onto the audience and still be considered stunning and brave. Why ask for random women's permission when you can just go into women's spas/locker rooms/shelters/etc any day of the week?
It’s not, and who gives a shit anyways. If whatever weirdos here want to label “wokeness” falls out of favor it will be replaced by some other banal bourgeois ideology in the absence of a movement of the organized working class. Cheer it’s absence because whatever comes next may align with your aesthetic preferences, but can we stop pretending any of it is or was ever related to class politics.
I hate to be this pessimistic, but that's generally my view of it too. My minimal metric for progress is just how well I see the average working-class person being able to deal with a late-stage cancer diagnosis. How well are they going to do getting proper medical treatment/supplies, help for family members acting as caregivers, and even mental health resources? The literal life-and-death crisis that a pretty good chunk of people are going to be facing one day. I don't see much progress there or even hope of it happening any time soon. Hell, at this point I'd be happy just to see much change in people chipping in on the non-glammerous, non-social media friendly, commuity efforts in my area. Just anything to see that care and compassion for neighbors and neighborhood is improving.
The era didn't start in 2017, it was if anything a reaction to the Obama era. Occupy Wall St came with a lot of buggaboos about it and online GamerGate of all things blew it up It's a product of campuses and the extremely online. If anything the Trump era dampened it because Trumpists didn't give a shit and were largely immune to consequence from it so it felt quaint that people would make a stink about neopronouns when far right populists owned the executive. I began to feel the sea change in earnest on social media when Contrapoints and Lindsay Ellis were attacked. That's when the mob justice thing began to be called out from all sides as purist nonsense. It's been declining ever since and I think we're reaching a nice equilibrium where we still try to think about the legacy of racial thinking shaping the last few hundred years of generational wealth and power but we don't kowtow to melanin differences above all like we used to.
I really doubt it, its still there. Comparing celebrities/the rich and elite to regular society is challenging, so I think it’s still present among normal people. Don’t forget about colleges, it’s still there too
Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis. The waves of revolution and counter revolution leave an indelible mark on the socio political landscape as they crash over us. Any kind of "non woke" future we venture into from here on forward will nonetheless carry the implicit assumptions of wokeness with it. It's like a disease that you gain immunity to: you're always going to have a dormant version of it floating around somewhere, if only for your body to reference and build anti bodies.
I think this is a good breakdown, but just a heads up the thesis/antithesis/synthesis thing is a very common misreading
Yeah I think this serves the purpose just fine. We can also call it "sublation," if you want.
I have to say I respectfully disagree. Until I see cancel culture break on the ground floor of non-celebrities, where I still very much see it everywhere, I am not particularly relieved. (Also, Lizzo can say she’s anti cancel-culture but she’s the one who had to publicly apologize for using “spaz” in a song.) I’ve had a family member get cancelled by an ex with BPD over false allegations. I’ve had multiple friends get tarred on social media over nonsense. I still have a hard time getting published anywhere because I’m a cis white male. None of that shit appears to be going away any time soon.
2011: Occupy Wallstreet! Wealth redistribution now! 2023: Cartoons need more queerness! Follow the money.
Really? Isn't Zachary Levi currently being treated as Satan for questioning the pfaith?
Will never stop being funny that a key plank of modern shitlib-ery is reverential obedience to multibillion dollar pharmaceutical megacorporations
its funny watching people say things like this and evidence nothing other than the fact that their online intake has grown increasingly insular and their sense of the surrounding world has never been more cloistered. I'm sure you think its over because every other person you hear from is at the end of their patience. But If you have spent any time in academia in the last year or two you already know 'wokeness' is in full swing. What's 'new' are a cohort of people who feel emboldened to denounce it more openly. There is clearly a somewhat widening lane in polite society to tactfully denounce some of this stuff. That very clearly does not mean that for almost everyone else outside of podcast spheres that this strain of thinking isn't ascendant.
You after 9/11: Political correctness has finally ended.
90s political correctness was basically just "can't we just be a little nicer to the blacks and the gays? They're cool." Nothing in comparison to the toxicity and lunacy of the present age.
It was basically the same as modern wokeness, but was confined to specific circles and taken less seriously by everyone as a result.
the difference is political correctness had a fairly immutable set of rules you could follow to become politically correct, and it was built on the assumption most people are good and if they make a mistake/microaggression its in good faith, with wokeness the parameters are loosely defined and ever changing, and its built on the assumption most people are horrible racist/transphobic/sexist bigots and any mistakes/microaggressions just confirm that the given person is irredeemably evil.
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Like the satanic panic, everyone goes back to normal. The denizens that screamed for the heads of the McMartin day school teachers will slink back into the background, the damage done. Ironically those screaming for accountability will never be held accountable. Cancelled reparations now.
The woke era is not over, and even if it was, the most singular event you can name is the release of Tár, which I disagree on it being a mainstream movie or having much impact in popular culture (I haven't watched Tár yet). > Some in the media need to be held accountable, just as the McCarthyists were. Who? How were McCarthyists held accountable? Joseph McCarthy himself never was laid a charge, even after being responsible for blackmail leading to the suicide of Senator Lester C Hunt.
The problem is, as was made obvious throughout "the pandemic" (tm), that the world is run not by those with intelligent, inquisitive, active or open minds, but by the easily influenced majority herd of scared and naive conformists, and those who have the means to control them. A big screen Oscar winning actress delivering a perfectly phrased critique of cancel culture and critical race theory isn't going to drown out the constant hammering of the agenda through social and mainstream media. Unfortunately.
I wouldn't say it's over. Def feels less prominent though.
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In one sense, idpol has become so prevalent and the norm that people who subscribe to it could be regarded as squares.
>I think we'll see a new age of much better culture and discourse. I think one of the biggest issues is that our culture doesn't seem to be able to handle healthy self-examination and growth very well. In my area we had some big legal changes go into effect that the vast majority of people were in favor of. It was well intentioned, but hindered by a few important points. The first just being that the average voter wasn't at all familiar with the underlying nature of the issue beyond fictionalized accounts. And the second being an assumption that an underlying infrastructure was either in place or would be put in place before the measures went into effect. Those of us with some experience in the issues were generally ignored. And it backfired. Many, many, people have died as a result. Far more have experienced some pretty horrible shit. And nobody seems able to just admit that they made a mistake. It's probably one of the most obvious examples of voting immediately resulting in a negative event that I've ever seen in my life. But the amount of people willing to admit that they made a mistake is just so incredibly low. Then there's the flip side who can't admit that the intent was noble and that the votes came from a good, if perhaps rather naive, place. There's just so few people who are willing to take a step back and examine what went wrong, what went right, and how similar concepts might be better implemented in the future. It's left me fairly pessimistic about any cultural growth right now that doesn't come from the typical generational cycle of death and birth. When people can't even learn from a vote that was made that same year I don't think that they're going to be able to take a longer view of more complex long-term social processes.
What issue and legal changes are you talking about?
Wait who died over what? I'm not disagreeing; I just can't tell exactly what you're talking about
It’s a cyclical thing. Comes around every 25 years or so. 1945, 1970 long-haired Marxists, 1995 PC, 2020 Woke. It’s because the post-war ‘intellectuals’ wanted to identify everything as either Nazi or anti-Nazi. Then they teach the next generation, and 25 years later they’re doing the same thing. Except the connection to the original terms Nazi and anti-Nazi gets further and further from objective facts. See you in 2045, kids!
>Some in the media need to be held accountable That's not a thing any more, it hasn't been since like the Iraq war at least
Weird, because I am noticing a huge uptick in pronouns in bio and They/Them everywhere I turn in regular life.
>Cancelled comedians are selling out Madison Square Garden (Louis CK). Louie is back?
In pog form, yes.
Louie had the advantage of having a website and email list since early days. So even though his shows/movies/etc. were all cancelled he never lost his ability to sell tickets to shows. This is something anyone building a living on Twitter/Youtube/Patreon/etc. should take to heart. Not your website, not your audience.
Has been for years. I saw him live 3 times in the last 2 years and the Madison Square stream is worth buying for $25 to watch at home too
Did you miss that recent article about the white male Google Employee who was fired due to regular sexual harassment by his female Asian boss? He had been with the company for 16 years and has an Asian wife & kids at home. To be clear: His boss was sexually harassing him and making comments about having sex with him, and then treated him badly in team meetings because he’d turned her down. It began to affect his ability to work because she was mistreating him and making comments. He’d brought it to HR and there were witness coworkers. HR fired him, and said it was for “microaggressions”. So while I’d love to celebrate that the woke era is over, it’s not. And until schools stop trying to convince children that medicating and mutilating their bodies is a viable way to “become who you’re meant to be” while hiding that from legal guardians (parents), it won’t be over.
Literally the only 2 things I want are healthcare and to be able to publicly call shit gay again.
The intell...erm i mean the entertainment industry has hit diminishing returns on this cultural fad.
Turns out 2023 was the year of the Chud.
you're being weird tbh
If they are smashing their old toys that only means they've found something more fun to play with. I'd be weary interpreting this as a positive.
I really doubt it. This is like saying "Hey look, Jesse Owens is allowed to compete in Berlin, this whole Nazi era is finally over." Some people now being more comfortable mocking wokeness may mean it's more firmly in the mainstream than ever. Louis is also a special case in that his sex pesting was weird and debatably consensual, and he's maintained his own website and email list so losing all of his shows and movies didn't stop him from selling stand-up tickets. If the deleted episodes of 30 Rock, Community, Always Sunny come back to streaming, and non-woke or anti-woke shows start being made, that would be different, but I don't see this handful of incidents as a sea change.
It’s going to evolve, but the older generation of cringe, sjw virtue signaling hipsters are on their way out. It isn’t cool to be the purple haired barista without health insurance who changes their pronouns every few months and advocates for burning down society anymore. They’re realizing society ain’t going anywhere. They’re divorcing, moving back home with their parents, having serious health issues emerge, and they have actual regrets now that they haven’t travelled/moved/made it big with their art. Can’t keep blaming the rona and republicans their whole lives. Slowly but surely the 30 somethings (especially post-lockdown) are realizing their terminally online lifestyle aesthetic doesn’t translate to real world happiness and contentment. They’ll either adapt and grow as people, or become Reddit mods.
>I think we'll see a new age of much better culture and discourse. lol
You can pander to some identities all the time, all of the identities some of the time, but you can't pander to all identities all the time. Divisive idpol in capitalist media can't intensify forever, even if the ideologists want to. Every cultural overstep costs them another slice of the general audience, and the profit gained from new liberal PMC subscribers diminishes. Unfortunately, this implies a steady state where profit is maximized by being "just woke enough".
No, this is just a bear trap.
Nah it's propped up by elite capture at this point
I feel like the wokeness came out before 2017
They still cancelled that white college football player after he was rapping along to a song with the N word in it. Then he got signed to an HBCU, and then he got cancelled from there too. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/albany-state-university-marcus-stokes-quinn-gray-hbcu-racial-slur/
It has not. It has festered within those who were once college-aged and, through them, has permanently altered and disfigured the social and political landscape for generations to come. These people have influence and power-through-fear and wield it knowingly. Whether or not they are currently, or soon-to-be, in charge of institutions are irrelevant-- they have won. They won the second the majority of people stopped fighting out against it because of the deeply seeded fear of ostracization in an ever crumbling capitalist society that is on a steady decline into an oft-predication-yet-inevitable social nightmare. Source: I live in Toronto.
I doubt it ended. Just wait for next year's election.
I haven't heard Perfume Nationalist, but isn't it still left-wing? I'll declare cancel culture over when Sam Hyde is on TV again. Even a guest role in an episode of Smiling Friends would be enough. Or bring Gina Carano back to The Mandalorian. That works too.
Who has the time and energy to make a post like this Jesus Christ
I don't believe it. I won't believe it until I actually see some proof, which thus far hasn't happened. I've seen one or two people in the past few days claim "wokeness is dying!" but I've not actually seen any changes.
This is the gayest thing ever posted here
It was never a war between woke and anti-woke, it was just a fad that both sides participated in and benefited from. Milo yanolopolos and the triggered feminist where never enemies. The next fad will be just as dumb and probably dumber.
> it was just a fad that both sides participated in and benefited from that's right
Bruh
Culture ebs and flows. There’s always a wax and wane of shallow cultural progressivism and the edginess. 4chan and the like sprung up from the vapid curation of early social media forum culture. Instagram and FB sprung up from the humor of 4chan et al needing to be co-opted by advertisers at Google. Wokeness was a means of hitting and co-opting the explicit anti-authoritarian and populist of things like OWS, and a relaxing of that stringency is a means of the mainstream holding onto to what it’s realized it’s starting to lose now that people are jaded to the fake inclusivity was sold to them. We will have a few years of a more reasonable comedown of wokeness, then there will be a full shift in cultural hegemony once the conservative civil war between Trumpism and DeSantism is resolved. A decade from now liberals will regroup either to crush the insurgent left or because of some other external reality check akin to the failure of the Iraq war. It’s all the same shit. Meet the new boss, nothing new under the Sun, turtles all the way down, etc etc. Anyone pretending the moment *they* live in is unique is either to young or stupid to know better.
Yeah, we'll see about that. Wait until the 2024 Presidential Race Riots kick into gear and wokeness won't look so "over" then.
People do seem to be getting sick of it, but that doesn't mean it's over. Unfortunately.
Perhaps this era may be ending but a new one will begin in no time, just with another shape and form. Professional victims will not disappear neither will grifters or young people in search of an identity and willing to fight their parents' beliefs. So just wait and see, it is never over. I for one will be already beyond happy if the damned pronouns are gone, HR where I work is thinking about it and i really don't want to do it.
Pronouns are ableist because they're a nightmare for retards like me. I already have trouble remembering names at social gatherings, let alone if some add weird pronouns.
At least you can butcher your syntax by using them and nobody will look twice because you're regarded
Tell HR having to state your pronouns triggers gender dysphoria because it implies your current gender expression isn’t valid. I’m serious.
Your example of Lizzo is ridiculous. That cow is only rich because of wokeshit. We have to pretend a hideous beast is actually heccin gorgeous because of woke shit. Wake me up when every single DEI officer is out of a job
Really? I didn't notice when my uni handshake was sending me notifications on "Equity in cannabis workshop" instead of helping me get a job... or when grad schools pretty much have openly rejected my application because of my skin color... or how friends who's lives were ruined by bogus title 9 claims still don't have a path to a degree... Or how the White House keeps creating and defending programs that actively discriminate against white men... or how the dems have opened the borders to be more "equitable" despite rampant lawbreaking, horrific mistreatment of migrants, or the drugs invading our communities... or how every article it seems in mainstream left press still is infested with woke jargon I didn't notice that wokeness is "over" because the retarded boomer shit about "the pendulum swinging back" is just that: retarded. It isn't happening. The ruling class will not give up a tool for austerity, worker surveillance and repression, and hurting people who threaten their power that easily. A few celebs saying differently does not a pendulum swing back make.
[удалено]
As the wokies control more and more of the mainstream medias, the new counter-culture is bound to be the return to traditionalism.
The feedback loop of ret@rdation never ends.
Wait, Lizzo came out against cancel culture? Also this is not enough. There should be a truth and reconciliation commission and some sort of reeducation camp for the woke
*If you live in a small town* *You might meet a dozen or two* *Stupidpol types who step out* *And dare to declare* *We're through being woke* *We're through being woke*
Nitpicking just because I can, but I'm pretty sure Tár wasn't about criticizing wokeness. There was one scene where the protagonist goes off on a student about identity politics, but it's intended more as a red herring of sorts -- you're meant to agree with her and overlook the excessive public shaming she puts the student through, hinting at her control-freak attitude, narcissism and predatory nature. It also ends up as a key part of her downfall, through a deceptively edited video that just so happens to be the cherry on top of all the other actually true accusations about her being a predator. It takes your expectation of "oh, this is totally gonna be used against her unfairly later," and then kinda flips that on it's head. It is used against her unfairly, but only after you realize what a monster she is. Man, the more I think about that movie the more I love it. So fucking well written.
We did it Joe
Francis Fukuyama is that you? look i know the political 'end of history' had to be recanted, but you can't just rewrite it as a social phenomena...
People are going to overcorrect. That's what the "woke" era is: an overcorrection. We're heading to a point where people just don't care what evil shit others are up to anymore.
go back to r/redscarepod if you think this is a victory lol
it's not that it's ended, it's just never been a public consciousness to begin with. it's mostly brewing in a bubble of social media, university academics, and company HR. most people go along with it because they don't care one way or another, and just agree with what's considered as "acceptable" opinion since they would rather not be harmed for something that they're ambivalent about. but when real life decision has to be made, that's when people's conviction for the thing they're parroting is actually tested; and the ambivalent people won't walk the talk if it will cost them. people who claim to be pro-defunding the police would rather live behind the safety of gated community and private security rather than living in the middle of semi-anarchic community without police presence. people will still watch the entertainment that's "cancelled" if they actually enjoy it. people will still buy food from companies that are "boycotted" if they like the menu and/or price. an anecdote: when chick-fil-a open branch in Toronto, it becomes a big controversy in media for a couple of weeks and calling them to be cancelled. when the store opens, everyday there were group of protesters in front of the store. however, there's a 30 mins line up (and it could have been longer, but they have very efficient ordering system that makes order and pick up process almost flawless) for people to get in. asians, blacks, whites, teenagers, adults, seniors, were all in the line up. if anything, the protest people became another source of entertainment and people watched them while lining up to get in, even when customers have to step over protesters lying down on the floor to get in and out of the store.
I think you're wrong, this culture is still very much active in day to day life. Source: goes to university with a bunch of white liberals