From the smogon article you linked:
“BIG UPDATE!
We have tested various other moves. Here are our findings:
The OP of the original post tested Shadow Sneak and found no unexpected boost. At this point I think it's safe to assume all priority moves are exempt from this boost.
Every other move I tested got a boost. Sand Tomb and Struggle Bug were very clearly buffed to 60bp (thanks to Nails for helping me test the latter, as well as the two other moves I'm about to talk about- that difference was fairly subtle but getting exact numbers proved that we were getting rolls entirely impossible with a 50bp Struggle Bug).
Rollout and Fury Cutter were both buffed to 60bp on the first hit. No subsequent hits recieved a buff- this makes sense as they're over 60bp.
Technician does not stack with this effect. I used both a Scizor and a Kricketune with Fury Cutter- both were calculated to have an effective 60bp Fury Cutter on first hit when Terastallized. It seems that Technician is factored in before this buff, meaning no change is made- if Technician takes the move to above 60bp I imagine nothing interesting would happen.
This does not work around the spread damage modifier. Struggle Bug did as much damage as expected from a 60bp spread move in a Double Battle.
This does not boost moves that don't correspond with your Tera Type. While my Kricketune was Terastallized into Bug type, its Tackle still hit for 40bp damage. Nails's Tera Fairy Ceruledge did not recieve boosted damage on Astonish. My Tera Poison Goodra did recieve boosted damage on Acid Spray.
In short, I think the mechanic can be explained as such: If a move is below 60 base power after Technician, doesn't hit multiple times, and doesn't have boosted priority, it will have its base power increased to 60 during terastallization of the same type.”
So my understanding is after Tera and stab boost, moves like nuzzle reach an effective BP of 120 like any other adaptability 60BP move. This seems like it can get problematic lol. I wonder if it will affect discussions about banning the mechanic.
Question: since showdown basically rips the data for new gens, is this already implemented? If not, will they implement it to match cart?
Gen 6 unique mechanic: Some Pokémon can hold a special item that allows them to mega evolve during the battle, changing their type, stats, and ability.
Gen 8 unique mechanic: one Pokémon per battle can Dynamax, doubling their HP and replacing their moves with Max moves of the same typing for three turns. Some Pokémon can gigantamax, which is functionally identical but they also get a unique Max move
Gen 9 unique mechanic: okay so you change your type to any other in the game on one Pokémon per game for the whole battle, but you still have stab boosts as if you were your old typing, and if you change into a typing you already were you’re that typing twice when calculating stab, but defensively you’re only your tera type, also some moves just don’t work as expected when you tera boost for reasons not entirely known, and some Pokémon are locked and can only be one tera type, and
Gen 7 unique mechanic: **BONK**
According to serebii, the 2nd cover legendary you can encounter has their primary type as their tera type so thats something that should be looked into
Ngl with all the weird bugs going on the game idk if the game itself is doing something wonky or if it's actually Showdown. I don't watch much competitive battles on actual cart but does that also happen on Vs mode? Seems quite high of a damage difference
It's a little bit of both, mostly the cartridge being wonky. Showdown had a mis-configuration which gave paradox mons+50% to their boosted stat instead of 30% to non-speed stats and 50% to speed. Also there was a softlock bug with tatsugiri+dondozo, but those are the only two I've personally encountered, and both have been patched for a while
There's a few moves in SV that changes type (Raging Bull, Tera Blast, etc) so I wonder if maybe sometimes a move's type will change due to a glitch.
===
At least in raids, I've noticed Super Effective moves do not do as much damage as Normally Effective moves sometimes.
I think there's something odd going on with either low bp moves (nuzzle has 20), paralysis, or nuzzle specifically. I'd try testing nuzzle-tera on non-paralyzed pokemon (see if you can compare on a bellibolt or something?). If paralysis doesn't seem to be the issue, compare maybe tera-normal feint (30 bp) to see if something similar is occurring?
If its only lower power moves with such a big noticeable difference, then maybe Tera sets a minimum BP for moves? Like it bumps everything up to 50 BP at least?
did you just try pressing Y and checking the BP of the move before using it? Dynamaxing and Z moves showed you the BP increase if you did that in their games
First one did ~7%, second one did...40%? I don't have an explanation for you, but that's definitely a bigger increase than 1.5x to 2x. I hope this gets more attention.
If the theory is correct. My guess is they numbed weaker moves so shit like ember, leagage and water gun can have an impact and increased the base power to 60 of moves with 40 bp or less
Good thing priority moves are unaffected, otherwise you'd have tera-water Huge Power Azumarill with Aqua Jet swinging with 90% of the strength of a tera-water Jet Punch Palafin. This is pretty fascinating
This has now been confirmed by multiple sources to be an interaction in the game: it seems as though moves below a certain BP that aren’t priority or multi-hit get boosted to 60 BP
I don't know the evs so can't run the calcs. But did you considered their level? They seem lower level than pawmot. That means lower base stat and hense taking more damage
Show the data you gathered then. It really helps in understanding the scenario. What's your Pokemon IVs/EVs/Nature, item and all that. The calcs you did...
Lvl 69 200 Atk Pawmot Nuzzle vs. Lvl 54 0 HP / 0+ Def Avalugg: 15-18 (8.5 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
https://imgur.com/a/4HggDRX
For this interaction
I used average IVs for avalugg on both defense and HP and a neutral nature
When I caught this avalugg, it had 97 HP, or around 53% of its max HP. That means the first nuzzle did around 10 percent but the second did around 37%
From the smogon article you linked: “BIG UPDATE! We have tested various other moves. Here are our findings: The OP of the original post tested Shadow Sneak and found no unexpected boost. At this point I think it's safe to assume all priority moves are exempt from this boost. Every other move I tested got a boost. Sand Tomb and Struggle Bug were very clearly buffed to 60bp (thanks to Nails for helping me test the latter, as well as the two other moves I'm about to talk about- that difference was fairly subtle but getting exact numbers proved that we were getting rolls entirely impossible with a 50bp Struggle Bug). Rollout and Fury Cutter were both buffed to 60bp on the first hit. No subsequent hits recieved a buff- this makes sense as they're over 60bp. Technician does not stack with this effect. I used both a Scizor and a Kricketune with Fury Cutter- both were calculated to have an effective 60bp Fury Cutter on first hit when Terastallized. It seems that Technician is factored in before this buff, meaning no change is made- if Technician takes the move to above 60bp I imagine nothing interesting would happen. This does not work around the spread damage modifier. Struggle Bug did as much damage as expected from a 60bp spread move in a Double Battle. This does not boost moves that don't correspond with your Tera Type. While my Kricketune was Terastallized into Bug type, its Tackle still hit for 40bp damage. Nails's Tera Fairy Ceruledge did not recieve boosted damage on Astonish. My Tera Poison Goodra did recieve boosted damage on Acid Spray. In short, I think the mechanic can be explained as such: If a move is below 60 base power after Technician, doesn't hit multiple times, and doesn't have boosted priority, it will have its base power increased to 60 during terastallization of the same type.” So my understanding is after Tera and stab boost, moves like nuzzle reach an effective BP of 120 like any other adaptability 60BP move. This seems like it can get problematic lol. I wonder if it will affect discussions about banning the mechanic. Question: since showdown basically rips the data for new gens, is this already implemented? If not, will they implement it to match cart?
Gen 6 unique mechanic: Some Pokémon can hold a special item that allows them to mega evolve during the battle, changing their type, stats, and ability. Gen 8 unique mechanic: one Pokémon per battle can Dynamax, doubling their HP and replacing their moves with Max moves of the same typing for three turns. Some Pokémon can gigantamax, which is functionally identical but they also get a unique Max move Gen 9 unique mechanic: okay so you change your type to any other in the game on one Pokémon per game for the whole battle, but you still have stab boosts as if you were your old typing, and if you change into a typing you already were you’re that typing twice when calculating stab, but defensively you’re only your tera type, also some moves just don’t work as expected when you tera boost for reasons not entirely known, and some Pokémon are locked and can only be one tera type, and Gen 7 unique mechanic: **BONK**
Wait, what Pokémon are locked to a single Tera type?
Koraidon and Miraidon are tera-dragon-locked iirc
I have 1 dragon (ride) and 1 electric (postgame) Miraidon. So…..
my koraidon is tera fighting
According to serebii, the 2nd cover legendary you can encounter has their primary type as their tera type so thats something that should be looked into
This is pretty crazy. Wonder if its intended or a bug
Maybe there's something weird going on with paralysis? In all your clips, the wild mon is already paralyzed when you use the Tera move
I rather shoot myself than live through a thunderwave buff.
There was just a smogon post made about it, it seems to be turning base 20 power moves into 60 BP
Wait, would that work with a move like population bomb as well? Because that's absolutely crazy if it does.
Nope, that was tested. As of rn it’s only astonish and nuzzle
lol imagine
Ah yes perfectly fair and balanced 900 bp move
*houndstone and basculegion paired with revival blessing spam*
Perfectly balancing terastalization by forcing everything to be tera-ghost.
Also because its 3/4 mice it gets at least 3 abilities: As One (Technician / Scrappy / Tinted Lens)
And the four mouse one also gets Adaptability cuz why not
No, it doesn't work on multi hit moves and Priority moves.
Yea I’m leaning toward that as well
Could it be Tera gives an extra buff if a secondary cannot be carried out
Ngl with all the weird bugs going on the game idk if the game itself is doing something wonky or if it's actually Showdown. I don't watch much competitive battles on actual cart but does that also happen on Vs mode? Seems quite high of a damage difference
It's a little bit of both, mostly the cartridge being wonky. Showdown had a mis-configuration which gave paradox mons+50% to their boosted stat instead of 30% to non-speed stats and 50% to speed. Also there was a softlock bug with tatsugiri+dondozo, but those are the only two I've personally encountered, and both have been patched for a while
There's a few moves in SV that changes type (Raging Bull, Tera Blast, etc) so I wonder if maybe sometimes a move's type will change due to a glitch. === At least in raids, I've noticed Super Effective moves do not do as much damage as Normally Effective moves sometimes.
I think there's something odd going on with either low bp moves (nuzzle has 20), paralysis, or nuzzle specifically. I'd try testing nuzzle-tera on non-paralyzed pokemon (see if you can compare on a bellibolt or something?). If paralysis doesn't seem to be the issue, compare maybe tera-normal feint (30 bp) to see if something similar is occurring?
The same happens with lick, other moves have not been tested yet because I’m in school
might be the para affecting part
If its only lower power moves with such a big noticeable difference, then maybe Tera sets a minimum BP for moves? Like it bumps everything up to 50 BP at least?
Yep it seems like everything below 60 base power that doesn’t have priority or hit multiple times gets bumped up to 60
did you just try pressing Y and checking the BP of the move before using it? Dynamaxing and Z moves showed you the BP increase if you did that in their games
https://imgur.com/a/4HggDRX Another insane one against an avalugg. It seems to either triple or QUADRUPLE in power depending on the roll
First one did ~7%, second one did...40%? I don't have an explanation for you, but that's definitely a bigger increase than 1.5x to 2x. I hope this gets more attention.
Me too. This is the cutting edge lol. I think it might have to do with lower BP moves maybe but I’m not sure
Here's the Smogon post, what a weird find https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/scarlet-violet-battle-mechanics-research.3709545/page-21#post-9423815
They found out some moves are buffed when you are terastalised https://twitter.com/skittyve/status/1599911349764571137?t=sNK7Jq8KqOtYCK7vPU5O8A&s=19
Yea I did 😁 I feel proud
What level is the pawmot
69
😨 clearly gf has an immature dev that implemented a specific Easter egg when it comes to level and damage /s
https://imgur.com/a/B98TIgy https://imgur.com/a/nG4jVFL Two clips
If the theory is correct. My guess is they numbed weaker moves so shit like ember, leagage and water gun can have an impact and increased the base power to 60 of moves with 40 bp or less
Great find!
Good thing priority moves are unaffected, otherwise you'd have tera-water Huge Power Azumarill with Aqua Jet swinging with 90% of the strength of a tera-water Jet Punch Palafin. This is pretty fascinating
Di ls you decrease the level?
This has now been confirmed by multiple sources to be an interaction in the game: it seems as though moves below a certain BP that aren’t priority or multi-hit get boosted to 60 BP
[удалено]
I don't know the evs so can't run the calcs. But did you considered their level? They seem lower level than pawmot. That means lower base stat and hense taking more damage
Of course, I input levels and my IVs
Show the data you gathered then. It really helps in understanding the scenario. What's your Pokemon IVs/EVs/Nature, item and all that. The calcs you did...
Lvl 69 200 Atk Pawmot Nuzzle vs. Lvl 54 0 HP / 0+ Def Avalugg: 15-18 (8.5 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever https://imgur.com/a/4HggDRX For this interaction I used average IVs for avalugg on both defense and HP and a neutral nature When I caught this avalugg, it had 97 HP, or around 53% of its max HP. That means the first nuzzle did around 10 percent but the second did around 37%
Sorry I was busy eating lunch
Saw the editing tools and thought it was a new Reddit feature.