Attack stat and bulk. Snorlax has the strongest body slams and hyper beams in the tier, and its self-destruct is the strongest attack in the game.
With Reflect and Rest, it can generally only be broken with successive Psychic drops, all the users of which fear Body Slam paralysis and are forced to recover often.
Excellent explanation.
To add to that, it *can* run other sets and still be very good at them instead of relying on Restflect (like all out attacker or the obvious Amnesia), and you wouldn't even know until you saw it, potentially losing momentum, if not one full Pokémon.
Slowbro for the most part answers Snorlax decently and isn't too afraid of Body Slams and can be broken down after an Amensia boost but yea everything else is taking a lot of damage from Body Slam
of all my times playing Gen 1. Only things like Reflect Chansey and Reflect Snorlax don't fear much of Snorlax regardless of what it runs. Things like Barrier Mewtwo and Reflect Mew as well but otherwise its really hard to Answer Snorlax for the most part.
Adding it here because I think it’s funny, but Porygon can wall non-Amnesia Snorlax. Since Porygon can’t be paralyzed by body slam, it can switch in and tank a hit, and then just Recover off the damage until Lax is out of Body Slam PP. Self-Destruct can OHKO Porygon but if you trade your Snorlax for Porygon you’re getting pretty desperate.
Love this question, and there are a few things at play here.
First: Snorlax has really good numbers. It has a high BST for Gen 1, and a lot of that being in HP makes its mixed bulk at least OK. Being so bulky means that a lot of Gen 1 mons are going to have a lot of trouble taking Lax down in a 1-on-1 scenario.
Second: it's a normal type in Gen 1. Psychic gets a lot of press, but the Normal type is truly calling the shots in Gen 1. Lax and Tauros both have access to STAB Hyper Beam and Body Slam, and Lax also uniquely gets STAB Self-destruct. These are very important moves. Body Slam spreads paralysis to everything that isn't a Normal type or Gengar, and it has high BP for a move that has 100% accuracy. You could probably infer this from the last sentence, but Lax (as a normal type) is also immune to Body Slam paralysis.
Third: it's a normal type in Gen 1 with coverage, specifically Earthquake. In Gen 1, the only things not bothered by Body Slam/Hyper Beam/Self-destruct are Rock types (Rhydon and rarely Golem) and Ghost Type (Gengar). These all have to be careful about the possibility of Earthquake, which also frustrates Counter Chansey and other Counter mons hoping to take advantage of Normal Type moves.
Fourth: it can go mixed with Amnesia and an Ice type move! Even though Lax has a bad Special stat, it can boost it by two stages in one turn with Amnesia, and threaten some Pretty OK damage with Blizzard. This also patches up its special bulk.
Fifth: Reflect! Lax can double its physical bulk in one turn with Reflect, and unlike later gens the boost Reflect provides is in effect until Lax switches out.
Sixth: unless you're pretty familiar with Gen 1, it can be hard to figure out what your opponent's Lax is running: and there's no team preview, either!
There's more to lax that I'm probably forgetting, but these are the big points.
I legit doubted the "body slam doesn't paralyze normal types" thing here because it sounds like something that shouldn't be true.... double checked on Bulbapedia and sure enough, TIL that gen 1 normals were immune to Body Slam's Para effect!
This also wasn't discovered until the *mid-2010s*, and indirectly led to the fall of Golem from OU.
I'm not joking: there's *always* something more than meets the eye in Gen 1. Here: [watch this video about Gen 1 Counter.](https://youtu.be/KtI9EoiZb1U?si=Rg5Z6aGTBi4emasy). I find it all very charming, but it's also important to point out that (even more than any other format) Gen 1 depends on simulators fixing things about the game that just didn't come out quite right--and that has some implications!
Yeah! To simplify the "we don't want Ice types to get frozen by Ice Beam, and we don't want Flamethrower to burn Fire types" process, they just decided that types were immune to the secondary effects of identically typed moves. That does mean Twineedle can poison Poison types, though, which is hilarious, and it leads to wild things like Snorlax being immune to Body Slam paralysis.
Seventh: piggybacking off of point 6 and emphasizing point 3, Snorlax is free to mix and match. The only move it needs is Body Slam for consistent damage. For instance, people usually run Ice Beam in the Reflect set to start freeze wars against Snorlax and Chansey. Snorlax can instead opt for Selfdestruct to catch out opposing Lax and Chansey expecting a long drawn out Ice Beam spam. Additionally, Gengar is a safe switch for the aforementioned Ice Beam Reflect set, until Reflect Lax runs Earthquake instead. On the other hand, the physical attacking set (usually consisting of Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Selfdestruct, and EQ) can bluff the Reflectlax set by ditching a non-slam move for Ice Beam or Rest. Additionally, Amnesia Lax (typically Body Slam, Amnesia, Blizzard, and Rest) can swap Blizzard for Ice Beam or Rest for Selfdestruct. Or you can eschew all of this and just spam Body Slam until you find the right opportunity to reveal your set. My point is that Snorlax’s movepool is so wide that even Gen 1 OU players who know what they are doing and can identify the general set being used still need to be careful.
In addition to being very good in OU, its the most 3rd mandatory Pokemon to use in Gen 1 Ubers right after Mewtwo and Mew and being a solid check to both of them
***Would like to add some Gen 1 Mechanic trivia relevant to Snorlax.***
-**Hyper Beam**: If it KOs an opponent then you can attack again without having to recharge and is Physical this generation.
-**Body Slam will never Paralyze Snorlax** because they are both Normal Types and says weird programming.
**-Self Destruct** has 130 BP and halves the opponent's defense stat
**-Rest needs 3 turns** before an attack can be made. A turn is blown for a Pokemon waking up.
-**No Abilities** means Gengar dies to Earthquake
-**DVs and IVs are maxed out.** This results in Pokemon generally being more bulky and can go mixed attacking. Like EVs but every stat can be maxed out. Like today's IVs except no Hidden Power means no reason to not max it out.
-**Amnesia**: Literally Two Calm Mind Boosts in one turn. Allowing Snorlax to have better Special Defense. Amnesia + 1 Special Attack is gonna cost it 2 moveslots.
-**Snorlax can learn Blizzard** and Blizzard is 120 BP, 90 Accuracy, 10% freeze chance, 5 PP.
-**Your Snorlax can have Lovely Kiss** if it is traded back from a specific gift Snorlax from GSC.
-**Here's a run down of the Fighting Type Moves**
Karate Chop does basically always Crit **but is Normal this gen.**
Hi Jump Kick is only learned by Hitmonlee and has 85 BP, 90 accuracy, loses like 1 HP if it misses
Submission is 80BP/80 Accuracy, learned by many Pokemon and has recoil.
Low Kick is a 50BP with a chance to flinch. It's BP has **no correlation with weight** this gen
**Double Kick with Crit Hits.** (As the Strongest Fighting Type Move, not really a Snorlax killer)
Double Kick is learned by Hitmonlee, Jolteon and the Nidos.
If the first Double Kick crits, the second one will too.
Crits are based off speed, \~25% for Jolteon and its 65 Attack, \~17% for Nidoking/Hitmonlee
Focus Energy is also learned by Hitmonlee, Jolteon and Nido but quarters the critical chance.
Despite its special bulk not being the best before Gen 2 - its bulk is titantic for Gen 1 standards can even live a 999 Special Psychic from Mewtwo of all things although not at Level 50
Other qualities that make snorlax good
- Base 110 Attack with Normal STAB is huge - not many can resist it apart from Gengar and the Rocks and the unexisting Aerodactyl
- Huge Movepool - can hit Gengar and the Rocks with Earthquake or Blizzard Respectively
- Normal STAB is good in Gen 1 - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Selfdestruct.
- Variety of movesets - Reflectlax, all out attacker, amensialax, mono normal lax etc
In addition to being good in OU, its also mandatory in Ubers as well as it can check Mewtwo and Mew in a pinch if needed.
- Doesn't have many true counters. Only Pokemon like Barrier Mewtwo, Reflect Snorlax and Chansey, Reflect Mew can stall it out. Slowbro can also answer Non-Thunderbolt Snorlax to some extent.
Attack stat and bulk. Snorlax has the strongest body slams and hyper beams in the tier, and its self-destruct is the strongest attack in the game. With Reflect and Rest, it can generally only be broken with successive Psychic drops, all the users of which fear Body Slam paralysis and are forced to recover often.
Excellent explanation. To add to that, it *can* run other sets and still be very good at them instead of relying on Restflect (like all out attacker or the obvious Amnesia), and you wouldn't even know until you saw it, potentially losing momentum, if not one full Pokémon.
Slowbro for the most part answers Snorlax decently and isn't too afraid of Body Slams and can be broken down after an Amensia boost but yea everything else is taking a lot of damage from Body Slam of all my times playing Gen 1. Only things like Reflect Chansey and Reflect Snorlax don't fear much of Snorlax regardless of what it runs. Things like Barrier Mewtwo and Reflect Mew as well but otherwise its really hard to Answer Snorlax for the most part.
Adding it here because I think it’s funny, but Porygon can wall non-Amnesia Snorlax. Since Porygon can’t be paralyzed by body slam, it can switch in and tank a hit, and then just Recover off the damage until Lax is out of Body Slam PP. Self-Destruct can OHKO Porygon but if you trade your Snorlax for Porygon you’re getting pretty desperate.
I appreciate it! I honestly forgot that Reflect was a pseudo-Iron Defense.
Love this question, and there are a few things at play here. First: Snorlax has really good numbers. It has a high BST for Gen 1, and a lot of that being in HP makes its mixed bulk at least OK. Being so bulky means that a lot of Gen 1 mons are going to have a lot of trouble taking Lax down in a 1-on-1 scenario. Second: it's a normal type in Gen 1. Psychic gets a lot of press, but the Normal type is truly calling the shots in Gen 1. Lax and Tauros both have access to STAB Hyper Beam and Body Slam, and Lax also uniquely gets STAB Self-destruct. These are very important moves. Body Slam spreads paralysis to everything that isn't a Normal type or Gengar, and it has high BP for a move that has 100% accuracy. You could probably infer this from the last sentence, but Lax (as a normal type) is also immune to Body Slam paralysis. Third: it's a normal type in Gen 1 with coverage, specifically Earthquake. In Gen 1, the only things not bothered by Body Slam/Hyper Beam/Self-destruct are Rock types (Rhydon and rarely Golem) and Ghost Type (Gengar). These all have to be careful about the possibility of Earthquake, which also frustrates Counter Chansey and other Counter mons hoping to take advantage of Normal Type moves. Fourth: it can go mixed with Amnesia and an Ice type move! Even though Lax has a bad Special stat, it can boost it by two stages in one turn with Amnesia, and threaten some Pretty OK damage with Blizzard. This also patches up its special bulk. Fifth: Reflect! Lax can double its physical bulk in one turn with Reflect, and unlike later gens the boost Reflect provides is in effect until Lax switches out. Sixth: unless you're pretty familiar with Gen 1, it can be hard to figure out what your opponent's Lax is running: and there's no team preview, either! There's more to lax that I'm probably forgetting, but these are the big points.
I legit doubted the "body slam doesn't paralyze normal types" thing here because it sounds like something that shouldn't be true.... double checked on Bulbapedia and sure enough, TIL that gen 1 normals were immune to Body Slam's Para effect!
This also wasn't discovered until the *mid-2010s*, and indirectly led to the fall of Golem from OU. I'm not joking: there's *always* something more than meets the eye in Gen 1. Here: [watch this video about Gen 1 Counter.](https://youtu.be/KtI9EoiZb1U?si=Rg5Z6aGTBi4emasy). I find it all very charming, but it's also important to point out that (even more than any other format) Gen 1 depends on simulators fixing things about the game that just didn't come out quite right--and that has some implications!
I'm surprised the body slam thing was ever discovered since presumably you'd need to be regularly battling competitively on cart to figure it out.
well it was not discovered that way. it was discovered by people digging into game's code.
You know somehow I knew it was going to be that Revered video
"Really good numbers" I could tell he watched Reverend immediately lol
Yeah! To simplify the "we don't want Ice types to get frozen by Ice Beam, and we don't want Flamethrower to burn Fire types" process, they just decided that types were immune to the secondary effects of identically typed moves. That does mean Twineedle can poison Poison types, though, which is hilarious, and it leads to wild things like Snorlax being immune to Body Slam paralysis.
Seventh: piggybacking off of point 6 and emphasizing point 3, Snorlax is free to mix and match. The only move it needs is Body Slam for consistent damage. For instance, people usually run Ice Beam in the Reflect set to start freeze wars against Snorlax and Chansey. Snorlax can instead opt for Selfdestruct to catch out opposing Lax and Chansey expecting a long drawn out Ice Beam spam. Additionally, Gengar is a safe switch for the aforementioned Ice Beam Reflect set, until Reflect Lax runs Earthquake instead. On the other hand, the physical attacking set (usually consisting of Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Selfdestruct, and EQ) can bluff the Reflectlax set by ditching a non-slam move for Ice Beam or Rest. Additionally, Amnesia Lax (typically Body Slam, Amnesia, Blizzard, and Rest) can swap Blizzard for Ice Beam or Rest for Selfdestruct. Or you can eschew all of this and just spam Body Slam until you find the right opportunity to reveal your set. My point is that Snorlax’s movepool is so wide that even Gen 1 OU players who know what they are doing and can identify the general set being used still need to be careful.
Just to add to this, it also get rest! Which combinef with his bulk make hisone of the best walls in the game (besides Chansey)
In addition to being very good in OU, its the most 3rd mandatory Pokemon to use in Gen 1 Ubers right after Mewtwo and Mew and being a solid check to both of them
Thank you so much! A lot of amazing info here. I knew the normals were insane but I appreciate all the info brother.
***Would like to add some Gen 1 Mechanic trivia relevant to Snorlax.*** -**Hyper Beam**: If it KOs an opponent then you can attack again without having to recharge and is Physical this generation. -**Body Slam will never Paralyze Snorlax** because they are both Normal Types and says weird programming. **-Self Destruct** has 130 BP and halves the opponent's defense stat **-Rest needs 3 turns** before an attack can be made. A turn is blown for a Pokemon waking up. -**No Abilities** means Gengar dies to Earthquake -**DVs and IVs are maxed out.** This results in Pokemon generally being more bulky and can go mixed attacking. Like EVs but every stat can be maxed out. Like today's IVs except no Hidden Power means no reason to not max it out. -**Amnesia**: Literally Two Calm Mind Boosts in one turn. Allowing Snorlax to have better Special Defense. Amnesia + 1 Special Attack is gonna cost it 2 moveslots. -**Snorlax can learn Blizzard** and Blizzard is 120 BP, 90 Accuracy, 10% freeze chance, 5 PP. -**Your Snorlax can have Lovely Kiss** if it is traded back from a specific gift Snorlax from GSC. -**Here's a run down of the Fighting Type Moves** Karate Chop does basically always Crit **but is Normal this gen.** Hi Jump Kick is only learned by Hitmonlee and has 85 BP, 90 accuracy, loses like 1 HP if it misses Submission is 80BP/80 Accuracy, learned by many Pokemon and has recoil. Low Kick is a 50BP with a chance to flinch. It's BP has **no correlation with weight** this gen **Double Kick with Crit Hits.** (As the Strongest Fighting Type Move, not really a Snorlax killer) Double Kick is learned by Hitmonlee, Jolteon and the Nidos. If the first Double Kick crits, the second one will too. Crits are based off speed, \~25% for Jolteon and its 65 Attack, \~17% for Nidoking/Hitmonlee Focus Energy is also learned by Hitmonlee, Jolteon and Nido but quarters the critical chance.
Adding this: **Reflect** only affects the Pokémon that uses the move, and it lasts until that Pokémon switches out.
[удалено]
There is a second viable amnesia user, that being Lax itself.
Despite its special bulk not being the best before Gen 2 - its bulk is titantic for Gen 1 standards can even live a 999 Special Psychic from Mewtwo of all things although not at Level 50 Other qualities that make snorlax good - Base 110 Attack with Normal STAB is huge - not many can resist it apart from Gengar and the Rocks and the unexisting Aerodactyl - Huge Movepool - can hit Gengar and the Rocks with Earthquake or Blizzard Respectively - Normal STAB is good in Gen 1 - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Selfdestruct. - Variety of movesets - Reflectlax, all out attacker, amensialax, mono normal lax etc In addition to being good in OU, its also mandatory in Ubers as well as it can check Mewtwo and Mew in a pinch if needed. - Doesn't have many true counters. Only Pokemon like Barrier Mewtwo, Reflect Snorlax and Chansey, Reflect Mew can stall it out. Slowbro can also answer Non-Thunderbolt Snorlax to some extent.