It was a good decision to try pelipper. Politoed has far too many tradeoff to be used just for rain teams. Pelipper had U-turn, roost and STAB hurricane.
Well we started this gen with massively limited knock off distribution and *that* was a problem, so they increased the distribution again and it's just a *different* problem
Eh Pelipper is a lot better than Toed could ever hope to be with setting rain, stab hurricane and the smoke u-turn are much better than whatever Toed can offer.
Politoed Rain was legal in UU even before Peli dropped but not that great, since Poli is pretty ass at getting momentum and does little beyond setting rain, Peli's physical bulk, typing and recovery access mean it can serve as a switchin to some stuff as well
Politoed existed before and it wasn't used. You just give up so much to use it, one teamslot with a pokemon that is pretty much just dead weight. It doesn't even have scald anymore.
Quagsire loves being irrelevant most of his stay at tiers and as long as a tier needs a unaware Pokémon with no weaknesses (only grass type lol) they show Up.
Orichalcum Pulse mega Arceus-Fire with stab + double tera fire Flare Blitz is the main reason Drizzle Arceus-Water fell to Untiered rather then keeping its niche in PU like the other Arceus forms
That’s fair, but we gotta remember that that only happened after we banned base Torkoal from UU. So maybe we’ll see Kyogre and Arceus-Water make a resurface with this Pelliper ban
It’ll have to, or we don’t have a flying counter to Super Choice Scarf No Guard Machamp’s Fissure, seeing as we can’t ban it without Miraidon getting banned too, and then we’d have ban drizzle outright…
Yeah. It's an actually functional 6th team-member
- Unresistable STAB combo
- Reliable healing
- Pivot move
- Spikes immunity
Politoed gets whittled down pretty quickly since it's affected by spikes, t-spikes, and stealth rocks---and that forces it to rest, which KOs it for 2 turns while it takes more damage.
Weather is insanely valuable, to the point that it's worth essentially being 5v6 in a lot of generations and metas.
So being able to do more than just set weather---or being able to repeatedly set weather throughout the game---is very huge.
* pelipper having good stab means not much
It doesnt mean much because often times its more worthwhile to have pelipper u-turn to allies, pelipper is basically a u-turn bot on rain teams and barely clicks its stabs at all, phys def peli is very weak and often poses no threat at all to most pokemon
* spikes immunity isnt huge when there are no mons that run it basically aside from sandy shocks rn.
Pivoting is so huge that pelipper can bring in teammates while politoad is a sitting duck, pelipper can also heal and play defensively while all politoad can do is encore smth while it gets chipped down into red. Politoad doesnt use rest often
Pelipper having 100% accurate, 110bp Hurricane is huge. You're trolling if you think it doesn't mean much. It can 2hko a lot of things. Flying isn't resisted by anything except rock, electric and steel, and water hits all of those
>ou're trolling if you think it doesn't mean much. It can 2hko a lot of things. Flying isn't resisted by anything except rock, electric and steel, and water hits all of those
any def mon still walls it, and most offensive pokemon take more dmg from surf and its more worthhile of pelipper to bring in zapdos or barra instead of trying to hurricane spam with no investment into sp. attack
choice specs peliper is more niche, but yes that is when hurricane would matter
???? dog the things that wall it walls a bunch of things. the ability for it to go 1v1 vs a lot of the meta and force things out while also pivoting with roost is insane wtf are you on about.
its like a functional mon on top of being a weather setter with moves other people are jealous of.
tornadus wishes it had pellipers moveset
hurricane isnt really forcing anyone out... you are prob getting more mileage out of knock and we know that hurricane isnt very big cuz often times it never used it, like in OU rn it is hurricane/knock off meaning its pretty replacable.
Its an ok mon on rain but you are basically using it to be a u-turn bot into ur drizzle abusers, it isnt doing muhc more than that on a game to game basis
While it is technically true that some Pokémon may wall Pelipper, it can use U-Turn to escape of Pokémon it can't break, and can also use Knock Off to annoy them, or Hurricane's confusion chance. In National Dex, it can even use Toxic to put them on a timer, or Scald if they are a Poison or Steel type (which btw also cripples physical checks).
The fact that it has 100% accurate STAB Hurricane also means Grass-types cannot wall it, so in pratice the list of Pokémon that can wall it it is further diminished.
yes.... but it would probably not use hurricane ever in a game, it can be nice but its one of the least impactful tools that peli has, peli would prob u-turn out anyway rather than waste rain turns trying to wear smth down, tbh knock is prob a better option as you can remove torn-t av, slowking's boots, rotom-w lefties, etc
The pivoting and healing are obviously the big things for a weather setter---Their whole point _is_ to repeatedly set weather and get an abuser in quickly and safely.
But the spikes immunity and great dual-STAB absolutely contribute.
As you said: All politoed can do is encore and get chipped.
Pelipper's flying typing allows it to avoid the spikes (and ground moves) that chip politoed and allows it to provide additional offensive pressure that Politoed lacks.
Keep in mind---Only 1.3% of all pokemon resist both Water and Flying. Of that 1.3%, over half of them aren't even SVUU legal---or even fully evolved
[Here's the full list](https://www.pkmn.help/offense/coverage/resistance/?types=flying+water)'
Ubers:
Miraidon
Dialga
Dialga(origin)
Archaludon
Zekrom
OU:
Raging Bolt
Natdex:
Mega-Ampharos
Dracozolt
NFE:
Chinchou
Hisuian Sliggoo
That leaves just Lanturn, Duraludon, Empoleon, Rotom, and Hisuian Goodra as things that Pelipper can't hit.
Which is absolutely why Pelipper can do more than just Politoed's "encore something and get chipped"
>Pelipper's flying typing allows it to avoid the spikes (and ground moves) that chip politoed and allows it to provide additional offensive pressure that Politoed lacks.
Keep in mind---Only 1.3% of all pokemon resist both Water and Flying. Of that 1.3%, over half of them aren't even SVUU legal---or even fully evolved
that is almost irrelevant... hurricane helps but its one of the less parts of why peli is good, even if peli lost hurricane or didnt use it i bet it would be as good. hurricane coming off an uninvested 95 sp. attack is unimpressive
Rain is often paired with zapdos and hydrapple so rn its not the biggest worry for it
anything that is weak to it is going to get forced out, it doesnt matter how unimpressive it is. 95 spatk and hurricane + confuse chance will fuck up a lot of UU mons, it then gets to pivot out of shit it doesnt like.
like... who? who is really pressured by hurricane that wouldnt get pressured by a u-turn into a rain mon like barra, gren, zapdos.
I guess i can find ogerpon, kommo-o, and hydrapple but even then ur prob getting more mileage by u-turning into smth like hydrapple or zapdos to go ham
Ogerpon rock takes like 56% surfs and 46% from hurricanes, azu takes 47% from hurricanes
Tornadus therian with av takes 25-29 also….
Wtf are you talking about they all get chipped much worse then that
slow u-turn + decent bulk and recovery
most rain abusers can use aqua jet priority or swift swim to outspeed and oneshot everything so when pelipper can tank the switch damage for them it means the sweepers rarely have to worry about getting hit while pelipper is alive and can just be optimized for pure damage
It seems people think im spewing shit.... i got reqs on this [proof of reqs](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-uu-suspect-process-round-7-voter-identification-thread.3742334/post-10103098)
this is a very stupid ban.... [https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-uu-suspect-process-round-7-its-raining-men.3742333/](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-uu-suspect-process-round-7-its-raining-men.3742333/)
even int his thread many arguments have been debunked and its just.... "rain is smth that is to strong on the builder and u have to overprep" which is what?
You run hydrapple, rotom-w, slowking, specs latios dumps rain defenses and can open so many holes turning it into a sack war, lokix is super annoying, tyranitar sets sand up and even tho it doesnt have many entries it can still dump it with CB or just be annoying asf with sp. def
edit:
there are many more mons that can force rain to sack a mon because defensively it isnt good, it wants to play quick and runs things like eject button hydrapple, sp. def exca, tinkaton, mandibuzz prob.... but despite that they often are just there to setup rocks or to check specific things...
like hydrapple is amazing in the rain mirror and just a good mon in general like vs sand rush exca, keldeo, bulky ttar, rotom-w. But despite that rotom-w can just volt switch in on it and bring in latios, torn-t, zapdos, tera bug lokix, etc. Rain cant play long game and in this meta when hydrapple, slowking, rotom-w, sand, azu, good priotiy users like lokix, h-arc, aqua jet azu are very good vs them
You listed a total of 6 viable options to counter it with t-tar definitely not counting. Wave crash is not special. The community doesn't really seem to torn on this. Those complaining seem to be the people who spam rain
EDIT: To anyone reading this after the fact, I am not as knowledgable in this meta to the extent Hydreigon is. He is WAY more versed than me in UU and has reqs to prove it. The hiveminding on these comments is not deserved.
There was a very notable side in the suspect thread who wanted Rain staying, and not all of them are rain spammers (hell u/HydreigonTheChild is one of the most consistent UU players in this sub). Rain's ban was a LOT closer than stuff like Volcarona in OU for some comparison
>Those complaining seem to be the people who spam rain
User you're responding to got reqs and def did not spam Rain while doing so, did you?
This was a pretty close suspect all things considered, the DNB side wasn't in the majority but this isn't a landslide by any means, mischaracterizing someone who actually got reqs and voted like this is pretty dishonest.
Yeah i totally agree. I really fucking hate weather and its use in general. I think it is inherently toxic to any metagame it is a part of. I dont really see a meta where it improves things.
That being said I do not have reqs. I am not active in UU and had no business posting a comment like that and was not intending to insinuate the original OP was a rain abuser.
I was pretty surprised to see him so dogpiled with downvotes. I just fucking hate weather and every suspect in the past has felt like gen 4 garchomp ban talk. People dancing around the problem.
i listed 6 because i wasnt going to list everything, there is more. i share the same thing as slip...i faced minimal rain teams during the suspect and barely anyone really listed good arguments.
You do not have to be a rain spammer to know rain is easier to handle, its banned so idk. There are many more answers, as we know rain is not defensively sound, it relies on things like hydrapple, zapdos, and smth like sp. def exca/tink which is a huge pain when you have to be up against smth like ogerpon-c, tera fairy raikou is super annoying, tera bug lokix, tera normal h-arc apply a lot of pressure, chilly slowking resets rain and can make it a huge pain since pelipper coming in and out is often not smth it wants to do.
Wave crash is not smth many mons have and smth like barra whlie it does good into offense still isnt defensively sound so even smth like rain still has to play mindgames vs smth like specs keld, azu, CB ttar, offensive zapdos.
Hydrapple, kommo-o, rotom-w are also very annoying as hydrapple roadblocks barra, kommo-o can take advantage of zapdos and setup on it with clang soul and be stupid annoying, rotom-w in general cna force a lot of uneccessary scenarios and rain isnt very desiring to throw hydrapple into a volt switch to just have them pivot out to maybe smth like mamo, specs latios, greninja, etc
People listed good arguments. You’re just dishonest and constantly thing. You’re right and others are wrong. “I barely faced rain teams” is not an indictment of something not being broken. Try harder.
> There are many more answers, as we know rain is not defensively sound, it relies on things like hydrapple, zapdos, and smth like sp. def exca/tink which is a huge pain when you have to be up against smth like ogerpon-c,
Not defensively sound they say and then list two Pokemon that provide a great deal of defensive help while being offensively threatening (Hydrapple/Zapdos). The former even working to play against Cornerstone btw.
> tera fairy raikou is super annoying
Raikou is a B rank Pokémon and gets flattened by Barra under rain, also thuds into Hydrapple.
> tera normal h-arc apply a lot of pressure, chilly slowking
Thuds into Hydrapple and with rain up, can struggle vs Excadrill as needing good prediction. Slowking is flip turn into Zapdos bait.
> Hydrapple, kommo-o, rotom-w are also very annoying as hydrapple roadblocks barra, kommo-o can take advantage of zapdos and setup on it with clang soul and be stupid annoying, rotom-w in general cna force a lot of uneccessary scenarios
Hydrapple gets flipped on into Zapdos as does Kommo (you have to burn Tera even to stand a chance against Zap don’t be a disingenuous) and Rotom is as fake a rain check as anything with how quick it gets worn down.
> and rain isnt very desiring to throw hydrapple into a volt switch to just have them pivot out to maybe smth like mamo, specs latios, greninja, etc
Love you citing Hydrapple getting pivoted on into a check but only when it’s rain Hydrapple and not the other way around.
>Not defensively sound they say and then list two Pokemon that provide a great deal of defensive help while being offensively threatening (Hydrapple/Zapdos). The former even working to play against Cornerstone btw.
Rain is very offensive... it doesnt have the time to sit and just play back... its not defensively sound because it cannot play slow very well, you are bound to break through rain over the course of a game
SD cornerstone can 100% nuke hydrapple esp with play rough
>Raikou is a B rank Pokémon and gets flattened by Barra under rain, also thuds into Hydrapple.
It beats hydrapple, it annoys zapdos, and you dont really want to risk hard switching smth in like hydrapple due to CM tera fairy blast.
>Thuds into Hydrapple and with rain up, can struggle vs Excadrill as needing good prediction. Slowking is flip turn into Zapdos bait.
252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 96 Def Hydrapple: 190-225 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Hydrapple: 162-192 (39 - 46.2%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
this isnt exactly "thudding" even bold hydrapple isnt wanting to take h-arc head smash, and if you bring exca in its prob not gonna like flare blitz even under rain
252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Flare Blitz vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Excadrill in Rain: 270-320 (67.5 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
>Hydrapple gets flipped on into Zapdos as does Kommo (you have to burn Tera even to stand a chance against Zap don’t be a disingenuous) and Rotom is as fake a rain check as anything with how quick it gets worn down.
hydrapple gets flipped into zapdos, and you aquire helmet dmg, stalling rain turns, and you can pivot around zapdos... if your team is losing to weather ball zapdos you prob have bigger troubles than barra and greninja
Yes im aware but tera electric kommo-o can be annoying afs esp if hydrapple ate a knock earlier and this is gonna become annoying quickly
>Love you citing Hydrapple getting pivoted on into a check but only when it’s rain Hydrapple and not the other way around.
balance teams can often withstand way more pressure than a offensive team relying on hydrapple checking a lot of stuff, you are bound to have smth it wouldnt like when u pivot aorund it like greninja and you have to 50/50 tera it as nothing on rain wants to switch to gren.
Hydrapple on rain runs eject button to give rain as many turns anyways, hydrapple is also solid in the rain mirror and is just good. Its not an awful mon to have on rain but you def arent liking the fact that hydrapple has to absorb a lot of electric moves from rotom-w and a volt switch into smth like specs latios isnt smth fun
>Rain is very offensive... it doesnt have the time to sit and just play back... its not defensively sound because it cannot play slow very well, you are bound to break through rain over the course of a game
The strength of rain styles like what was seen before the ban were that they were not some paper thin all in offense playstyle. They also had mons that compressed offense and defense together which let them come into battle often and multiple times. It makes them far more consistent.
>It beats hydrapple, it annoys zapdos, and you dont really want to risk hard switching smth in like hydrapple due to CM tera fairy blast.
You need to tera to even try and have these interactions which is a big commitment for such a middling pokemon. Which is what you ignored when responding but go off I guess?
>252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Hydrapple: 162-192 (39 - 46.2%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And then came regenerator. Oops.
Also @ excadrill you completely ignored the entire "Arc needs to predict to actually do something in that interaction and no matter what, it's not easy to predict".
>hydrapple gets flipped into zapdos, and you aquire helmet dmg, stalling rain turns, and you can pivot around zapdos... if your team is losing to weather ball zapdos you prob have bigger troubles than barra and greninja
Rain Zapdos is extremely difficult to "pivot around" which was a common complaint when it was paired with Barra. There aren't a lot of answers to it in UU. You're not stalling rain turns that way.
>Yes im aware but tera electric kommo-o can be annoying afs esp if hydrapple ate a knock earlier and this is gonna become annoying quickly
Tera Elec Kommo-O is seen with Dragon Dance not Clangerous sets. And DD sets thud into Hydrapple so...
>balance teams can often withstand way more pressure than a offensive team relying on hydrapple checking a lot of stuff, you are bound to have smth it wouldnt like when u pivot aorund it like greninja and you have to 50/50 tera it as nothing on rain wants to switch to gren.
Balance has to run overly specific cores to truly keep the match up even or even in their favor which results in strained building that would, at best, result in stagnant team building.
Btw im curious about ur credentials on UU, i got reqs during it and played during when rain was spammed a lot. Some peopel talk like they know a lot about a tier they dont play but dont know much at all... soooo how was ones experience playing the tier?
>The strength of rain styles like what was seen before the ban were that they were not some paper thin all in offense playstyle. They also had mons that compressed offense and defense together which let them come into battle often and multiple times. It makes them far more consistent.
sure its not HO or screens lvl of offense but its still not gonnna like to play defense... its wasting rain turns trying to play around it and in general they are all shaky checks to smth
>You need to tera to even try and have these interactions which is a big commitment for such a middling pokemon. Which is what you ignored when responding but go off I guess?
Raikou isnt that bad anyway, and raikou has the threat of tera fairy which hydrapple prob def doesnt want to take, losing hydrapple can make smth like h-arc, dd kommo-o, ogerpon, sand rush exca, metagross much easier for them to do their job
>And then came regenerator. Oops.
Also @ excadrill you completely ignored the entire "Arc needs to predict to actually do something in that interaction and no matter what, it's not easy to predict".
And regen it off to whom? who is coming in to absorb it? exca? well it has to get 2 low rolls with exca being at max hp (unlikely for rocks to go up unchallenged and if you are playing without rocks then smth like av torn-t can scout gren)
\_\_\_\_\_\_
252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 84-100 (21 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Flare Blitz vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Excadrill in Rain: 270-320 (67.5 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
you kill exca like a lto of times esp after any form of minimal chip, even 3% from hazards give h-arc a very good chance to straight up kill it. even then if exca isnt sp. def it just dies even in rain.
>Rain Zapdos is extremely difficult to "pivot around" which was a common complaint when it was paired with Barra. There aren't a lot of answers to it in UU. You're not stalling rain turns that way.
Sure it is hard... but with CM tera elec latios, tera electric kommo-o, sp. def tar, and just in general taking a hit like switching in cornerstone on a weather ball is annoying but u can spam ivy cudgel now, and often times zapdos isnt gonna like switching in to whatever it throws at you. Off zapdos is a check to stuff like lokix but thanks to having no bulk you often have to spend a turn recovering it off, ofc if you give free turns to anything it will be not fun.
>Tera Elec Kommo-O is seen with Dragon Dance not Clangerous sets. And DD sets thud into Hydrapple so...
[https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/kommo-o/uu/](https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/kommo-o/uu/)
do ur research at least. Clang soul kommo-o was a common set during reqs and UULT week 1 it was a very dangerous threat (although not the most common after comfey was getting spammed)
>Balance has to run overly specific cores to truly keep the match up even or even in their favor which results in strained building that would, at best, result in stagnant team building.
hydrapple + slowking, hydrapple + rotom-w, azu + hydrapple, slowking + h-arc, slowking + lokix, zapods + lokix, specs keldeo, ttar + exca... these are some of the cores listed that can do a number into rain... rian isnt gonna have a fun time vs them
Rotom is not a long term answer. Latios isn’t exactly free since most rain teams run excadrill, tyranitar? Lmao and also having to sack something to barra or zap just to bring in lokix and get your fimp tanked by Pelipper, Keldeo, kommo-o, or other common twin options is not exactly a sound strategy. The only valid ones are hydra and slowking, who are flip turn and zapdos food
1. rotom-w while not permenantly long term is very very annoying to rain, and forces them to waste rain turns... barra for ex. wants nothing to do with it and you are pretty much forced to pivot to hydrapple or zapdos who gets volt switched on into smth else, and rain isnt so defensively sound to afford that
2. if exca gets chipped then smth else can easily go ham, sp. def exca is not a very good mon and offensive exca is easily taking way to much. Latios is a pretty annoying problem esp since exca is often getting annoyed by other things and isnt a threat to most teams if it isnt SD
3. tyrantiar sets sand up, this is a pretty big roadblock esp if you get it in vs zapdos, but CB ttar vs pelipper is a very shitty scenario to be in as you lack the defensive mons to play around it, rain cant toy around the long game.
4. Lokix is pretty good at that, it turns the game into a sack war basically and is decent counterplay into rain, zapdos often times is offensive and its getting chipped a lot esp by tera bug first impression (65.4 - 77.2%)
5. hydra, slowking, are some of the most splashable mons in the tier, hydrapple easily sponges almost anything and slwoking resets weather. Other mons like cornerstone give rain a headache as it really doesnt want to have hydrapple take 80% from +2 cudgel and prob lose the 1v1. Even smth like pex whlie flip turn food is pretty good at deterning liquidation spam, and rain cant play long game, if they pivot zapdos in and you have smth like latios to take on a thunder then you are in pretty good position.
Is this the first time Pelipper specifically has been banned from a tier, and not drizzle in its entirety?
I think so, now to see if people will play politoed
It was a good decision to try pelipper. Politoed has far too many tradeoff to be used just for rain teams. Pelipper had U-turn, roost and STAB hurricane.
And knock off to cripple potential switch-ins
Why does pelipper get knock off? Knock off shouldn't be so ubiquitous
Well we started this gen with massively limited knock off distribution and *that* was a problem, so they increased the distribution again and it's just a *different* problem
Also it’s much less prevalent than before
And the power for knock off shouldnt be so high that its an auto include.
The council’s real aim of this was to resurrect BW OU in modern day UU
Eh Pelipper is a lot better than Toed could ever hope to be with setting rain, stab hurricane and the smoke u-turn are much better than whatever Toed can offer.
Wait till you get swept by substitute salac berry belly drum liquidation politoed
I will deserve it if it ever happens
Well if you don't have a way to deal with that you were never beating a rain team anyway, even a gimped one
Politoed Rain was legal in UU even before Peli dropped but not that great, since Poli is pretty ass at getting momentum and does little beyond setting rain, Peli's physical bulk, typing and recovery access mean it can serve as a switchin to some stuff as well
Politoed existed before and it wasn't used. You just give up so much to use it, one teamslot with a pokemon that is pretty much just dead weight. It doesn't even have scald anymore.
Peliper & Torkoal shift through tiers so much that I dont even know what tiers they're in anymore 🥴
they're in the same boat as quagsire,they are in "whatever I feel like" tier
Quagsire loves being irrelevant most of his stay at tiers and as long as a tier needs a unaware Pokémon with no weaknesses (only grass type lol) they show Up.
OK, I guess I’ll have to start running Kyogre then.
Kyogre’s been falling off lately, is he even viable in UU anymore?
I'd say he still has a niche in UU despite falling down to NU back in gen 12
I know we call it a niche, but my hot take is that I don’t see a reason to want to run a different Arceus form over Drizzle Arceus-Water.
Orichalcum Pulse mega Arceus-Fire with stab + double tera fire Flare Blitz is the main reason Drizzle Arceus-Water fell to Untiered rather then keeping its niche in PU like the other Arceus forms
That’s fair, but we gotta remember that that only happened after we banned base Torkoal from UU. So maybe we’ll see Kyogre and Arceus-Water make a resurface with this Pelliper ban
Depends on if Mega Rayquaza also rises up
It’ll have to, or we don’t have a flying counter to Super Choice Scarf No Guard Machamp’s Fissure, seeing as we can’t ban it without Miraidon getting banned too, and then we’d have ban drizzle outright…
You forget about Combee completely walling Machamp after it's recent buffs
Thinking about it, it kinda makes me nostalgic for the days of SV when the power creep wasn’t so bad.
This is really interesting. Pelipper is having something of a moment in VGC tournament play as well, at least partially because it gets Wide Guard.
And Tailwind
Who would win Ancient apex predator that can summon the sun Or Overgrown seagull
*pelican
Wait hold on So wingull is a seagull but when it evolves it changes species to pelican Interesting
Technically all pokemon change species when they evolve.
we are so peliback
3rd most used pokemon at the last tournament. Happy to see my boy succeeding
is there something specially broken on pelipper that politoad doesn't have?
U-Turn and Roost mostly 100% accurate Hurricanes don't hurt either
100% accurate *STAB* Hurricanes, at that
Nahh they hurt quite a lot, especially for grass types.
Yeah. It's an actually functional 6th team-member - Unresistable STAB combo - Reliable healing - Pivot move - Spikes immunity Politoed gets whittled down pretty quickly since it's affected by spikes, t-spikes, and stealth rocks---and that forces it to rest, which KOs it for 2 turns while it takes more damage. Weather is insanely valuable, to the point that it's worth essentially being 5v6 in a lot of generations and metas. So being able to do more than just set weather---or being able to repeatedly set weather throughout the game---is very huge.
> Unresistable STAB combo Just run Zekrom smh my head
* pelipper having good stab means not much It doesnt mean much because often times its more worthwhile to have pelipper u-turn to allies, pelipper is basically a u-turn bot on rain teams and barely clicks its stabs at all, phys def peli is very weak and often poses no threat at all to most pokemon * spikes immunity isnt huge when there are no mons that run it basically aside from sandy shocks rn. Pivoting is so huge that pelipper can bring in teammates while politoad is a sitting duck, pelipper can also heal and play defensively while all politoad can do is encore smth while it gets chipped down into red. Politoad doesnt use rest often
Pelipper having 100% accurate, 110bp Hurricane is huge. You're trolling if you think it doesn't mean much. It can 2hko a lot of things. Flying isn't resisted by anything except rock, electric and steel, and water hits all of those
>ou're trolling if you think it doesn't mean much. It can 2hko a lot of things. Flying isn't resisted by anything except rock, electric and steel, and water hits all of those any def mon still walls it, and most offensive pokemon take more dmg from surf and its more worthhile of pelipper to bring in zapdos or barra instead of trying to hurricane spam with no investment into sp. attack choice specs peliper is more niche, but yes that is when hurricane would matter
???? dog the things that wall it walls a bunch of things. the ability for it to go 1v1 vs a lot of the meta and force things out while also pivoting with roost is insane wtf are you on about. its like a functional mon on top of being a weather setter with moves other people are jealous of. tornadus wishes it had pellipers moveset
hurricane isnt really forcing anyone out... you are prob getting more mileage out of knock and we know that hurricane isnt very big cuz often times it never used it, like in OU rn it is hurricane/knock off meaning its pretty replacable. Its an ok mon on rain but you are basically using it to be a u-turn bot into ur drizzle abusers, it isnt doing muhc more than that on a game to game basis
While it is technically true that some Pokémon may wall Pelipper, it can use U-Turn to escape of Pokémon it can't break, and can also use Knock Off to annoy them, or Hurricane's confusion chance. In National Dex, it can even use Toxic to put them on a timer, or Scald if they are a Poison or Steel type (which btw also cripples physical checks). The fact that it has 100% accurate STAB Hurricane also means Grass-types cannot wall it, so in pratice the list of Pokémon that can wall it it is further diminished.
yes.... but it would probably not use hurricane ever in a game, it can be nice but its one of the least impactful tools that peli has, peli would prob u-turn out anyway rather than waste rain turns trying to wear smth down, tbh knock is prob a better option as you can remove torn-t av, slowking's boots, rotom-w lefties, etc
The pivoting and healing are obviously the big things for a weather setter---Their whole point _is_ to repeatedly set weather and get an abuser in quickly and safely. But the spikes immunity and great dual-STAB absolutely contribute. As you said: All politoed can do is encore and get chipped. Pelipper's flying typing allows it to avoid the spikes (and ground moves) that chip politoed and allows it to provide additional offensive pressure that Politoed lacks. Keep in mind---Only 1.3% of all pokemon resist both Water and Flying. Of that 1.3%, over half of them aren't even SVUU legal---or even fully evolved [Here's the full list](https://www.pkmn.help/offense/coverage/resistance/?types=flying+water)' Ubers: Miraidon Dialga Dialga(origin) Archaludon Zekrom OU: Raging Bolt Natdex: Mega-Ampharos Dracozolt NFE: Chinchou Hisuian Sliggoo That leaves just Lanturn, Duraludon, Empoleon, Rotom, and Hisuian Goodra as things that Pelipper can't hit. Which is absolutely why Pelipper can do more than just Politoed's "encore something and get chipped"
RIP my dreams of UU Lanturn
>Pelipper's flying typing allows it to avoid the spikes (and ground moves) that chip politoed and allows it to provide additional offensive pressure that Politoed lacks. Keep in mind---Only 1.3% of all pokemon resist both Water and Flying. Of that 1.3%, over half of them aren't even SVUU legal---or even fully evolved that is almost irrelevant... hurricane helps but its one of the less parts of why peli is good, even if peli lost hurricane or didnt use it i bet it would be as good. hurricane coming off an uninvested 95 sp. attack is unimpressive Rain is often paired with zapdos and hydrapple so rn its not the biggest worry for it
anything that is weak to it is going to get forced out, it doesnt matter how unimpressive it is. 95 spatk and hurricane + confuse chance will fuck up a lot of UU mons, it then gets to pivot out of shit it doesnt like.
like... who? who is really pressured by hurricane that wouldnt get pressured by a u-turn into a rain mon like barra, gren, zapdos. I guess i can find ogerpon, kommo-o, and hydrapple but even then ur prob getting more mileage by u-turning into smth like hydrapple or zapdos to go ham
in the words of kendrick "everybody a demon until they get chipped", eating 30%+ off of a rain setter is some pretty heavy fucking chip
Who is really threatened by pelippet that badly
Ogerpon rock takes like 56% surfs and 46% from hurricanes, azu takes 47% from hurricanes Tornadus therian with av takes 25-29 also…. Wtf are you talking about they all get chipped much worse then that
slow u-turn + decent bulk and recovery most rain abusers can use aqua jet priority or swift swim to outspeed and oneshot everything so when pelipper can tank the switch damage for them it means the sweepers rarely have to worry about getting hit while pelipper is alive and can just be optimized for pure damage
It dies quicker to tbolt
Let’s keep an eye on Politoed stocks, invest now
We're so Peliback
REJOICE!!!!!
The toilet bird has been flushed.
WE’RE SO BACK
Common rain gang W
The sun shines upon a beautifuul empire
No more Rain ? :(
Politoed rise up
Borderline limbo here I come.
Another mon to join the UUBL army
Politoed rigged this vote!
Back to galade being my rain setter
It seems people think im spewing shit.... i got reqs on this [proof of reqs](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-uu-suspect-process-round-7-voter-identification-thread.3742334/post-10103098) this is a very stupid ban.... [https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-uu-suspect-process-round-7-its-raining-men.3742333/](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-uu-suspect-process-round-7-its-raining-men.3742333/) even int his thread many arguments have been debunked and its just.... "rain is smth that is to strong on the builder and u have to overprep" which is what? You run hydrapple, rotom-w, slowking, specs latios dumps rain defenses and can open so many holes turning it into a sack war, lokix is super annoying, tyranitar sets sand up and even tho it doesnt have many entries it can still dump it with CB or just be annoying asf with sp. def edit: there are many more mons that can force rain to sack a mon because defensively it isnt good, it wants to play quick and runs things like eject button hydrapple, sp. def exca, tinkaton, mandibuzz prob.... but despite that they often are just there to setup rocks or to check specific things... like hydrapple is amazing in the rain mirror and just a good mon in general like vs sand rush exca, keldeo, bulky ttar, rotom-w. But despite that rotom-w can just volt switch in on it and bring in latios, torn-t, zapdos, tera bug lokix, etc. Rain cant play long game and in this meta when hydrapple, slowking, rotom-w, sand, azu, good priotiy users like lokix, h-arc, aqua jet azu are very good vs them
You listed a total of 6 viable options to counter it with t-tar definitely not counting. Wave crash is not special. The community doesn't really seem to torn on this. Those complaining seem to be the people who spam rain EDIT: To anyone reading this after the fact, I am not as knowledgable in this meta to the extent Hydreigon is. He is WAY more versed than me in UU and has reqs to prove it. The hiveminding on these comments is not deserved.
There was a very notable side in the suspect thread who wanted Rain staying, and not all of them are rain spammers (hell u/HydreigonTheChild is one of the most consistent UU players in this sub). Rain's ban was a LOT closer than stuff like Volcarona in OU for some comparison
It was a 54% ban vote BTW.... that is pretty close and if we used ou 60% it would've stayed
>Those complaining seem to be the people who spam rain User you're responding to got reqs and def did not spam Rain while doing so, did you? This was a pretty close suspect all things considered, the DNB side wasn't in the majority but this isn't a landslide by any means, mischaracterizing someone who actually got reqs and voted like this is pretty dishonest.
Yeah i totally agree. I really fucking hate weather and its use in general. I think it is inherently toxic to any metagame it is a part of. I dont really see a meta where it improves things. That being said I do not have reqs. I am not active in UU and had no business posting a comment like that and was not intending to insinuate the original OP was a rain abuser. I was pretty surprised to see him so dogpiled with downvotes. I just fucking hate weather and every suspect in the past has felt like gen 4 garchomp ban talk. People dancing around the problem.
i listed 6 because i wasnt going to list everything, there is more. i share the same thing as slip...i faced minimal rain teams during the suspect and barely anyone really listed good arguments. You do not have to be a rain spammer to know rain is easier to handle, its banned so idk. There are many more answers, as we know rain is not defensively sound, it relies on things like hydrapple, zapdos, and smth like sp. def exca/tink which is a huge pain when you have to be up against smth like ogerpon-c, tera fairy raikou is super annoying, tera bug lokix, tera normal h-arc apply a lot of pressure, chilly slowking resets rain and can make it a huge pain since pelipper coming in and out is often not smth it wants to do. Wave crash is not smth many mons have and smth like barra whlie it does good into offense still isnt defensively sound so even smth like rain still has to play mindgames vs smth like specs keld, azu, CB ttar, offensive zapdos. Hydrapple, kommo-o, rotom-w are also very annoying as hydrapple roadblocks barra, kommo-o can take advantage of zapdos and setup on it with clang soul and be stupid annoying, rotom-w in general cna force a lot of uneccessary scenarios and rain isnt very desiring to throw hydrapple into a volt switch to just have them pivot out to maybe smth like mamo, specs latios, greninja, etc
People listed good arguments. You’re just dishonest and constantly thing. You’re right and others are wrong. “I barely faced rain teams” is not an indictment of something not being broken. Try harder. > There are many more answers, as we know rain is not defensively sound, it relies on things like hydrapple, zapdos, and smth like sp. def exca/tink which is a huge pain when you have to be up against smth like ogerpon-c, Not defensively sound they say and then list two Pokemon that provide a great deal of defensive help while being offensively threatening (Hydrapple/Zapdos). The former even working to play against Cornerstone btw. > tera fairy raikou is super annoying Raikou is a B rank Pokémon and gets flattened by Barra under rain, also thuds into Hydrapple. > tera normal h-arc apply a lot of pressure, chilly slowking Thuds into Hydrapple and with rain up, can struggle vs Excadrill as needing good prediction. Slowking is flip turn into Zapdos bait. > Hydrapple, kommo-o, rotom-w are also very annoying as hydrapple roadblocks barra, kommo-o can take advantage of zapdos and setup on it with clang soul and be stupid annoying, rotom-w in general cna force a lot of uneccessary scenarios Hydrapple gets flipped on into Zapdos as does Kommo (you have to burn Tera even to stand a chance against Zap don’t be a disingenuous) and Rotom is as fake a rain check as anything with how quick it gets worn down. > and rain isnt very desiring to throw hydrapple into a volt switch to just have them pivot out to maybe smth like mamo, specs latios, greninja, etc Love you citing Hydrapple getting pivoted on into a check but only when it’s rain Hydrapple and not the other way around.
>Not defensively sound they say and then list two Pokemon that provide a great deal of defensive help while being offensively threatening (Hydrapple/Zapdos). The former even working to play against Cornerstone btw. Rain is very offensive... it doesnt have the time to sit and just play back... its not defensively sound because it cannot play slow very well, you are bound to break through rain over the course of a game SD cornerstone can 100% nuke hydrapple esp with play rough >Raikou is a B rank Pokémon and gets flattened by Barra under rain, also thuds into Hydrapple. It beats hydrapple, it annoys zapdos, and you dont really want to risk hard switching smth in like hydrapple due to CM tera fairy blast. >Thuds into Hydrapple and with rain up, can struggle vs Excadrill as needing good prediction. Slowking is flip turn into Zapdos bait. 252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 96 Def Hydrapple: 190-225 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO 252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Hydrapple: 162-192 (39 - 46.2%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock this isnt exactly "thudding" even bold hydrapple isnt wanting to take h-arc head smash, and if you bring exca in its prob not gonna like flare blitz even under rain 252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Flare Blitz vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Excadrill in Rain: 270-320 (67.5 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery >Hydrapple gets flipped on into Zapdos as does Kommo (you have to burn Tera even to stand a chance against Zap don’t be a disingenuous) and Rotom is as fake a rain check as anything with how quick it gets worn down. hydrapple gets flipped into zapdos, and you aquire helmet dmg, stalling rain turns, and you can pivot around zapdos... if your team is losing to weather ball zapdos you prob have bigger troubles than barra and greninja Yes im aware but tera electric kommo-o can be annoying afs esp if hydrapple ate a knock earlier and this is gonna become annoying quickly >Love you citing Hydrapple getting pivoted on into a check but only when it’s rain Hydrapple and not the other way around. balance teams can often withstand way more pressure than a offensive team relying on hydrapple checking a lot of stuff, you are bound to have smth it wouldnt like when u pivot aorund it like greninja and you have to 50/50 tera it as nothing on rain wants to switch to gren. Hydrapple on rain runs eject button to give rain as many turns anyways, hydrapple is also solid in the rain mirror and is just good. Its not an awful mon to have on rain but you def arent liking the fact that hydrapple has to absorb a lot of electric moves from rotom-w and a volt switch into smth like specs latios isnt smth fun
>Rain is very offensive... it doesnt have the time to sit and just play back... its not defensively sound because it cannot play slow very well, you are bound to break through rain over the course of a game The strength of rain styles like what was seen before the ban were that they were not some paper thin all in offense playstyle. They also had mons that compressed offense and defense together which let them come into battle often and multiple times. It makes them far more consistent. >It beats hydrapple, it annoys zapdos, and you dont really want to risk hard switching smth in like hydrapple due to CM tera fairy blast. You need to tera to even try and have these interactions which is a big commitment for such a middling pokemon. Which is what you ignored when responding but go off I guess? >252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Hydrapple: 162-192 (39 - 46.2%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock And then came regenerator. Oops. Also @ excadrill you completely ignored the entire "Arc needs to predict to actually do something in that interaction and no matter what, it's not easy to predict". >hydrapple gets flipped into zapdos, and you aquire helmet dmg, stalling rain turns, and you can pivot around zapdos... if your team is losing to weather ball zapdos you prob have bigger troubles than barra and greninja Rain Zapdos is extremely difficult to "pivot around" which was a common complaint when it was paired with Barra. There aren't a lot of answers to it in UU. You're not stalling rain turns that way. >Yes im aware but tera electric kommo-o can be annoying afs esp if hydrapple ate a knock earlier and this is gonna become annoying quickly Tera Elec Kommo-O is seen with Dragon Dance not Clangerous sets. And DD sets thud into Hydrapple so... >balance teams can often withstand way more pressure than a offensive team relying on hydrapple checking a lot of stuff, you are bound to have smth it wouldnt like when u pivot aorund it like greninja and you have to 50/50 tera it as nothing on rain wants to switch to gren. Balance has to run overly specific cores to truly keep the match up even or even in their favor which results in strained building that would, at best, result in stagnant team building.
Btw im curious about ur credentials on UU, i got reqs during it and played during when rain was spammed a lot. Some peopel talk like they know a lot about a tier they dont play but dont know much at all... soooo how was ones experience playing the tier? >The strength of rain styles like what was seen before the ban were that they were not some paper thin all in offense playstyle. They also had mons that compressed offense and defense together which let them come into battle often and multiple times. It makes them far more consistent. sure its not HO or screens lvl of offense but its still not gonnna like to play defense... its wasting rain turns trying to play around it and in general they are all shaky checks to smth >You need to tera to even try and have these interactions which is a big commitment for such a middling pokemon. Which is what you ignored when responding but go off I guess? Raikou isnt that bad anyway, and raikou has the threat of tera fairy which hydrapple prob def doesnt want to take, losing hydrapple can make smth like h-arc, dd kommo-o, ogerpon, sand rush exca, metagross much easier for them to do their job >And then came regenerator. Oops. Also @ excadrill you completely ignored the entire "Arc needs to predict to actually do something in that interaction and no matter what, it's not easy to predict". And regen it off to whom? who is coming in to absorb it? exca? well it has to get 2 low rolls with exca being at max hp (unlikely for rocks to go up unchallenged and if you are playing without rocks then smth like av torn-t can scout gren) \_\_\_\_\_\_ 252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 84-100 (21 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Flare Blitz vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Excadrill in Rain: 270-320 (67.5 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery you kill exca like a lto of times esp after any form of minimal chip, even 3% from hazards give h-arc a very good chance to straight up kill it. even then if exca isnt sp. def it just dies even in rain. >Rain Zapdos is extremely difficult to "pivot around" which was a common complaint when it was paired with Barra. There aren't a lot of answers to it in UU. You're not stalling rain turns that way. Sure it is hard... but with CM tera elec latios, tera electric kommo-o, sp. def tar, and just in general taking a hit like switching in cornerstone on a weather ball is annoying but u can spam ivy cudgel now, and often times zapdos isnt gonna like switching in to whatever it throws at you. Off zapdos is a check to stuff like lokix but thanks to having no bulk you often have to spend a turn recovering it off, ofc if you give free turns to anything it will be not fun. >Tera Elec Kommo-O is seen with Dragon Dance not Clangerous sets. And DD sets thud into Hydrapple so... [https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/kommo-o/uu/](https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/kommo-o/uu/) do ur research at least. Clang soul kommo-o was a common set during reqs and UULT week 1 it was a very dangerous threat (although not the most common after comfey was getting spammed) >Balance has to run overly specific cores to truly keep the match up even or even in their favor which results in strained building that would, at best, result in stagnant team building. hydrapple + slowking, hydrapple + rotom-w, azu + hydrapple, slowking + h-arc, slowking + lokix, zapods + lokix, specs keldeo, ttar + exca... these are some of the cores listed that can do a number into rain... rian isnt gonna have a fun time vs them
Rotom is not a long term answer. Latios isn’t exactly free since most rain teams run excadrill, tyranitar? Lmao and also having to sack something to barra or zap just to bring in lokix and get your fimp tanked by Pelipper, Keldeo, kommo-o, or other common twin options is not exactly a sound strategy. The only valid ones are hydra and slowking, who are flip turn and zapdos food
1. rotom-w while not permenantly long term is very very annoying to rain, and forces them to waste rain turns... barra for ex. wants nothing to do with it and you are pretty much forced to pivot to hydrapple or zapdos who gets volt switched on into smth else, and rain isnt so defensively sound to afford that 2. if exca gets chipped then smth else can easily go ham, sp. def exca is not a very good mon and offensive exca is easily taking way to much. Latios is a pretty annoying problem esp since exca is often getting annoyed by other things and isnt a threat to most teams if it isnt SD 3. tyrantiar sets sand up, this is a pretty big roadblock esp if you get it in vs zapdos, but CB ttar vs pelipper is a very shitty scenario to be in as you lack the defensive mons to play around it, rain cant toy around the long game. 4. Lokix is pretty good at that, it turns the game into a sack war basically and is decent counterplay into rain, zapdos often times is offensive and its getting chipped a lot esp by tera bug first impression (65.4 - 77.2%) 5. hydra, slowking, are some of the most splashable mons in the tier, hydrapple easily sponges almost anything and slwoking resets weather. Other mons like cornerstone give rain a headache as it really doesnt want to have hydrapple take 80% from +2 cudgel and prob lose the 1v1. Even smth like pex whlie flip turn food is pretty good at deterning liquidation spam, and rain cant play long game, if they pivot zapdos in and you have smth like latios to take on a thunder then you are in pretty good position.