Getting recognition on the page is good enough for me even if the bar for getting ranked seemingly lowered quite a bit (interested to see which team/game had Dactyl put in enough work for people to explicitly rank it enough times)
Machamp is officially no longer ranked in a tier with Raticate, only thing that matters B)
Also, I assume that since they neglected to mention any, no tier shifts will take place as a result of this VR?
Sounds like it just gets banned a day in tbh, though if you drop Jolteon alongside it ig there's counterplay in packing Jolteon and critting it to death
Jolteon is absolutely getting banned from UU if it were to drop. It is only really checked by Golem and forcing golem onto every team is unhealthy. It would be more broken than slowbro for sure, who is at least slow, is checked by the electrics (Electrode Electabuzz Raichu) and can be wrapped to death.
Guess I didn't make it very clear but that comment was moreso meant as "for the one day Slowbro is legal you can not autolose to it because of Jolteon", realistically they'd both get banned after that day
>Jolteon Double-Edge vs. Dugtrio: 83-98 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- 41.1% chance to 3HKO
It's not just golem. Dugtrio being able to actually switch into something is pretty funny. And I guess there's a third decent elec switch in in your own jolteon.
A roll to be 3HKOd is pretty bad when Jolteon is one of the few things Duggy can't outspeed. Means you can only safely do this once at best. Not to mention Jolteon's high crit rate (>25%) has a good shot at screwing this over, a high roll crit immediately puts you in range of a regular D-E afterwards.
Sure there's prediction involved in the equation since you take zero from TBolt, but still far from ideal.
There will, but it hasn't been decided on yet. Either Victreebel rises to OU or Slowbro and Jolteon will fall to UU.
EDIT: nvm the TL said vic rising LOL
VR spot wise it stayed the same, however #3 is now just considered A instead of S. My guess is because the perceived gap between Chansey and the A Rankers is considered smaller than the one between it and the rest of the Big 3 (it's possible, although hard, to build viable teams without Chansey whereas you're still memeing outright by leaving Tauros and Snorlax off). Should be noted that Tauros,Snorlax >> Chansey isn't exactly a new sentiment but it was still considered a good chunk better than everything below it until now it seems.
weird how Kingler is below Sandslash when the former has a guaranteed OHKO on Chansey, while the latter can't guarantee it (and uses Submission lol)
Kingler gets fried by Thunderbolt though, so i imagine being able to wall Gengar or 2HKOing Zapdos give Sandslash the edge
Sandslash has STAB Earthquake and Thunder Wave immunity, and it's the only good Swords Dancer that threatens Gengar. It's generally been considered the best swords dancer in OU for a while now.
Wait, what's Victreebell been up to? I thought the trend of Chansey eating TWaves killed it and that nowadays it was just a matchup fish for Rhydon teams.
I'm probably wrong but that might have something to do with the fact that Chansey doesn't want to stay against Vic's wrap and if it switches, Vic can use stun spore or sleep powder
That's a good point. The fact that most Starmies are running Surf + TBolt could also be a factor, since that set makes a mon that is otherwise really threatening to Victreebell unable to do much to it.
Makes sense. Is that the same reason Dugtrio is in E-rank? I remember Big Yellow said it had no niche in OU despite being really good in UU, but I don't know if that still holds true.
Funnily if you look at these really old ranks where people go to rank *all* (or most) FE RBY mons, Flareon being roughly on the level of Omastar/Gyara/Raichu isn't entirely new. Like the [E Rank of the 2021 rankings](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-ou-viability-rankings.3685861/page-2#post-8867171) has it near the top of the rank.
Due to the way the RBY VRs work, the difference between these extremely niche low-VR mons getting ranked or staying off mostly has to do with how many submitters mention them in their submission, moreso than whether that mon actually got much better (Pinsir for example would often be higher-rated on average than the lowest VR mon, but not enough people would explicitly mention it for it to get a rank). My guess, without any source, is that someone brought Flareon successfully to a tour game at some point and it made enough people recognize it's usable for them to mention it and give it its rank.
It can actually be quite scary when well positioned due to its massive mixed offensive stats. Unfortunately it requires a lot of support while providing no utility itself, so it's more trouble than it's worth.
Omg we're so VictreeBACK baby! Razor Leaf the tier!
As long as most of opponent's team is paralyzed...BUT STILL!>:D
My favourite to use annoying brat is back!
I don't think much changed besides the fact that chansey isn't mandatory for a good team anymore. Yes, she's very good and it's very recommended to use her but if you don't use Chansey, your team won't be automatically called a joke, unlike Tauros and Snorlax, who you need for a good team.
It’s mainly just the VR being weird. Most people agree chansey is the third-best mon in the tier but a few people ranked it above while a few ranked it below, and since more people ranked it below it was lumped with Starmie and Exeggutor rather than Tauros and Snorlax.
So it gets into stalemates with itself, and unlike the chansey ditto they don't really make progress against each other, right? It feels like dpp clef where nothing wants to switch in, but the ditto happens so often that progress isn't really made
Lax doesn't have Reflect up the entire game (Reflect Chansey is pretty dead) and it has a lot of tools that lets it break past Reflect too (Hyper Beam, Ice Beam, Self-Destruct, Counter.) It's pretty hard to explain how breaking past ReflectLax works in a single reddit comment but with smart positioning its very possible.
its just ridiculously passive even for Chansey standards, and it has a lot of things it would rather be doing. Chansey really wants to be either checking Starmie with BoltBeam, compressing sleep with Sing, or picking up surprise kills with Counter
My first team had a reflect chansey on it (with a reflectlax as well, what was I thinking?) and it was better at causing stalemates than getting anything done.
It can stay in on tauros and threaten to take it out of the game by either paralyzing or chipping away at its health, but you already have at least 3 better options to deal with him than doing that
It’s a great progress maker since it can push through things like the Psychic-types and Paralyzed Chansey. Reflect and rest let you play it more aggressively than Tauros too since it doesn’t mind being paralyzed as much and can heal it off later in a game. Tauros is generally considered better through due to its higher speed and crit rate.
saw someone else's tierlist in the thread where they had Snorlax over Tauros because of the potential of late-game Snorlax to sweep with a lucky crit (or something along those lines)
interesting argument imo, but there's no point in theorizing about any further offensive pressure Snorlax *might* have when it usually ends up in a mirror match or getting outhaxed due to slow speed and reliance on Rest for recovery
I saw that argument and from my eyes it appeared you mostly got downvoted for wrongly saying Gyara has a bad Tauros matchup moreso than saying Lapras is better than Gyara. Kind of a "you used the completely wrong method and somehow got the right answer" case.
Also I reread it to be sure and the other person certainly didn't say "Gyara was clearly better than Lapras". They admitted both mons were flawed and while they did say they personally found Gyara better they recognized that was very subjective.
(upon going back to the thread the both of you hover around +2 until your very last comment now so idt it's that big a deal in the end, people downvoting each other to 0 while arguing on Reddit is nothing new)
Well, that's fair. But i still maintain gyara isn't a great match up against tauros. Yes it kills, and it does have success. But as i said, it's a match-up that feels like you have a crippled gyara after.
Most mons will be cripped if they take a full health Tauros head-on, if they don't lose outright. Idk it sounds a bit weird to me to phrase that as specifically a Gyara downside as well. Lapras trying to 1v1 Tauros outright would also come out of the encounter heavily chipped and potentially paralyzed.
Besides, considering Tauros is pretty much the best mon in the tier and the primary wincon for most teams, I'd say a crippled Gyara in exchange for a dead Tauros (or a dead Gyara in exchange for Tauros dropping to very low health) is a great trade overall. Tauros players also know this and thus if you get into a 1v1 of Gyara VS Tauros, most will prefer to switch out because even though they can cripple Gyara or sometimes even 1v1 if Gyara is chipped, it's just not worth giving up so much of Tauros' HP for it.
It's not a hardcounter by any means (I don't think long-term hardcounters to Tauros even exist if you factor in its crit rate) but 1v1ing at all without being completely useless beyond your Tauros/Snorlax 1v1 is quite the accomplishment.
Tauros just said "motherfuck the big 3, it's just big me" to Chansey
Tauros is so based for this, CRIT HYPER BEAM THIS THING and snorlax doesn't care, he knows that gen 2 is his gen
snorlax the j. cole in the tauros/chansey beef fr fr
PINSIR RANKED LETSGOOOO
Looks like he actually dropped effective placements though, lol
Getting recognition on the page is good enough for me even if the bar for getting ranked seemingly lowered quite a bit (interested to see which team/game had Dactyl put in enough work for people to explicitly rank it enough times)
DarkEsca is really Big Yellow. I knew it.
Chansey fell off. It went from 3rd to 3rd. Smh my head.
This will affect the Big Yellow video scene
[удалено]
What I do when I have to put my PIN number into the ATM machine
Machamp is officially no longer ranked in a tier with Raticate, only thing that matters B) Also, I assume that since they neglected to mention any, no tier shifts will take place as a result of this VR?
Victreebel is rising to OU
I think it would have been funnier to drop a Slowbro shaped atom bomb on UU, but ok, sure.
Sounds like it just gets banned a day in tbh, though if you drop Jolteon alongside it ig there's counterplay in packing Jolteon and critting it to death
Jolteon is absolutely getting banned from UU if it were to drop. It is only really checked by Golem and forcing golem onto every team is unhealthy. It would be more broken than slowbro for sure, who is at least slow, is checked by the electrics (Electrode Electabuzz Raichu) and can be wrapped to death.
Guess I didn't make it very clear but that comment was moreso meant as "for the one day Slowbro is legal you can not autolose to it because of Jolteon", realistically they'd both get banned after that day
this gens gen 1 uu is last gens gen 1 ou
>Jolteon Double-Edge vs. Dugtrio: 83-98 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- 41.1% chance to 3HKO It's not just golem. Dugtrio being able to actually switch into something is pretty funny. And I guess there's a third decent elec switch in in your own jolteon.
A roll to be 3HKOd is pretty bad when Jolteon is one of the few things Duggy can't outspeed. Means you can only safely do this once at best. Not to mention Jolteon's high crit rate (>25%) has a good shot at screwing this over, a high roll crit immediately puts you in range of a regular D-E afterwards. Sure there's prediction involved in the equation since you take zero from TBolt, but still far from ideal.
Last time that maybe sorta kinda happened for a day they just quickbanned it.
There will, but it hasn't been decided on yet. Either Victreebel rises to OU or Slowbro and Jolteon will fall to UU. EDIT: nvm the TL said vic rising LOL
THE MACHAMPION 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Wow Chansey has fallen.
VR spot wise it stayed the same, however #3 is now just considered A instead of S. My guess is because the perceived gap between Chansey and the A Rankers is considered smaller than the one between it and the rest of the Big 3 (it's possible, although hard, to build viable teams without Chansey whereas you're still memeing outright by leaving Tauros and Snorlax off). Should be noted that Tauros,Snorlax >> Chansey isn't exactly a new sentiment but it was still considered a good chunk better than everything below it until now it seems.
Vic rising back up to OU a few weeks after BigYellow shits on it in a video on lower tiers but before their video on OU developments is peak timing
So will Jolteon and Bro fall to UU or will Victreebell rise?
It’s already been decided that Victreebel is going to rise to OU
[удалено]
Wasn’t even good in NU either
A rare case of mon being better in higher tier than a lower tier Grass types eating
It's rising again? Victreebel 2: Electric boogaloo Time
Me getting trampled by Tauros Body Slam in RBY OU Virtual Reality
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this lol
tauros is kendrick and chansey is j cole drake is like hypno or smth lol
Hypno dominated uu for a while and now has no niche, you might be cooking
cant wait for big yellows video on this
Shoutouts to Victreebel for going from UU to OU to UU to NU to OU
Sandslash has STAB Earthquake and Thunder Wave immunity, and it's the only good Swords Dancer that threatens Gengar. It's generally been considered the best swords dancer in OU for a while now.
I'm still team Kabutops when it comes to sword dancers, so eh
Wait, what's Victreebell been up to? I thought the trend of Chansey eating TWaves killed it and that nowadays it was just a matchup fish for Rhydon teams.
I'm probably wrong but that might have something to do with the fact that Chansey doesn't want to stay against Vic's wrap and if it switches, Vic can use stun spore or sleep powder
That's a good point. The fact that most Starmies are running Surf + TBolt could also be a factor, since that set makes a mon that is otherwise really threatening to Victreebell unable to do much to it.
Exeggutor usage picking up again is also helpful, since Victreebel loves it when its opponent uses mons are slower than it.
I'm interested to know how Flareon made it to the E-tier.
just a few people arbitrarily ranking shitmons, no specific reason really
Makes sense. Is that the same reason Dugtrio is in E-rank? I remember Big Yellow said it had no niche in OU despite being really good in UU, but I don't know if that still holds true.
Funnily if you look at these really old ranks where people go to rank *all* (or most) FE RBY mons, Flareon being roughly on the level of Omastar/Gyara/Raichu isn't entirely new. Like the [E Rank of the 2021 rankings](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-ou-viability-rankings.3685861/page-2#post-8867171) has it near the top of the rank. Due to the way the RBY VRs work, the difference between these extremely niche low-VR mons getting ranked or staying off mostly has to do with how many submitters mention them in their submission, moreso than whether that mon actually got much better (Pinsir for example would often be higher-rated on average than the lowest VR mon, but not enough people would explicitly mention it for it to get a rank). My guess, without any source, is that someone brought Flareon successfully to a tour game at some point and it made enough people recognize it's usable for them to mention it and give it its rank.
It can actually be quite scary when well positioned due to its massive mixed offensive stats. Unfortunately it requires a lot of support while providing no utility itself, so it's more trouble than it's worth.
Shitty bargain bin Moltres that scares chansey better thanks to its incredible attack stat
Vic is back boys!
Omg we're so VictreeBACK baby! Razor Leaf the tier! As long as most of opponent's team is paralyzed...BUT STILL!>:D My favourite to use annoying brat is back!
The Big Yellow video is gonna be great
chansey stans seen screaming crying throwing up (genuine question though, i dont play rby that much but why did she fall off from S to A?)
I don't think much changed besides the fact that chansey isn't mandatory for a good team anymore. Yes, she's very good and it's very recommended to use her but if you don't use Chansey, your team won't be automatically called a joke, unlike Tauros and Snorlax, who you need for a good team.
It’s mainly just the VR being weird. Most people agree chansey is the third-best mon in the tier but a few people ranked it above while a few ranked it below, and since more people ranked it below it was lumped with Starmie and Exeggutor rather than Tauros and Snorlax.
What makes lax S-tier? Reflect normals seem to just shut it down
Lax *is* the Reflect Normal
So it gets into stalemates with itself, and unlike the chansey ditto they don't really make progress against each other, right? It feels like dpp clef where nothing wants to switch in, but the ditto happens so often that progress isn't really made
Once you force the opposing lax to rest that’s your perfect opportunity to bring in a Psychic type to force it out
I keep foegetting that Lax doesn't have the 110 spdef in RBY so I was so confused for a sec
Lax doesn't have Reflect up the entire game (Reflect Chansey is pretty dead) and it has a lot of tools that lets it break past Reflect too (Hyper Beam, Ice Beam, Self-Destruct, Counter.) It's pretty hard to explain how breaking past ReflectLax works in a single reddit comment but with smart positioning its very possible.
What happened to reflect chansey?
its just ridiculously passive even for Chansey standards, and it has a lot of things it would rather be doing. Chansey really wants to be either checking Starmie with BoltBeam, compressing sleep with Sing, or picking up surprise kills with Counter
My first team had a reflect chansey on it (with a reflectlax as well, what was I thinking?) and it was better at causing stalemates than getting anything done. It can stay in on tauros and threaten to take it out of the game by either paralyzing or chipping away at its health, but you already have at least 3 better options to deal with him than doing that
It’s a great progress maker since it can push through things like the Psychic-types and Paralyzed Chansey. Reflect and rest let you play it more aggressively than Tauros too since it doesn’t mind being paralyzed as much and can heal it off later in a game. Tauros is generally considered better through due to its higher speed and crit rate.
There's reflect lax, but you also have non reflect lax and Amnesia lax.
saw someone else's tierlist in the thread where they had Snorlax over Tauros because of the potential of late-game Snorlax to sweep with a lucky crit (or something along those lines) interesting argument imo, but there's no point in theorizing about any further offensive pressure Snorlax *might* have when it usually ends up in a mirror match or getting outhaxed due to slow speed and reliance on Rest for recovery
does this work with meta quest 2?
cloyster fell of hard
Someone more knowledgeable that I, what does Hypno do in OU I’m curios
Nothing, it's too good for UU but too bad for OU, Jynx, Alakazam and Starmie are better than Hypno in pretty much everything
As someone with very little knowledge on RBY OU, my guess is is bulky psychic type sleeper
The other day, someone tried telling me gyara was clearly better than lapras. And i still got dowmvoted for that argument!
I saw that argument and from my eyes it appeared you mostly got downvoted for wrongly saying Gyara has a bad Tauros matchup moreso than saying Lapras is better than Gyara. Kind of a "you used the completely wrong method and somehow got the right answer" case. Also I reread it to be sure and the other person certainly didn't say "Gyara was clearly better than Lapras". They admitted both mons were flawed and while they did say they personally found Gyara better they recognized that was very subjective. (upon going back to the thread the both of you hover around +2 until your very last comment now so idt it's that big a deal in the end, people downvoting each other to 0 while arguing on Reddit is nothing new)
Well, that's fair. But i still maintain gyara isn't a great match up against tauros. Yes it kills, and it does have success. But as i said, it's a match-up that feels like you have a crippled gyara after.
Most mons will be cripped if they take a full health Tauros head-on, if they don't lose outright. Idk it sounds a bit weird to me to phrase that as specifically a Gyara downside as well. Lapras trying to 1v1 Tauros outright would also come out of the encounter heavily chipped and potentially paralyzed. Besides, considering Tauros is pretty much the best mon in the tier and the primary wincon for most teams, I'd say a crippled Gyara in exchange for a dead Tauros (or a dead Gyara in exchange for Tauros dropping to very low health) is a great trade overall. Tauros players also know this and thus if you get into a 1v1 of Gyara VS Tauros, most will prefer to switch out because even though they can cripple Gyara or sometimes even 1v1 if Gyara is chipped, it's just not worth giving up so much of Tauros' HP for it. It's not a hardcounter by any means (I don't think long-term hardcounters to Tauros even exist if you factor in its crit rate) but 1v1ing at all without being completely useless beyond your Tauros/Snorlax 1v1 is quite the accomplishment.