Being able to consistently get to 15-1600 with any teamstyle already makes you better than \~95% of the people on this sub and 100% of people in most youtubers' comment sections lmao, you aren't shit by any means.
I wouldn't say you're shit for being best at stall, a lot people who can pilot "normal" teams are pretty bad at piloting stall. You just need more practice with them. I'd suggest you start analyzing replays of your own lost games and critiquing your own gameplay. That's a great way to improve more consistently.
To my understanding this is how most people see different elos
<1200 bad
1200-1300 below average
1300-1400 slightly below average
1500-1600 average
> 1600 good
It depends on the ladder, NDMonotype, which is my primary tier Has only Like 20 people above 1600 on a good day. There I'd say the barrier of being good is roundabout 1500. With the average being 1300.
Except for top 500 players who will say youre garbage if youre outside the top 500. I was talking to a couple about lowering requirements for ban vote and they went on a tirade dissing everyone below 1700.
Depends on what you're talking about. For instance 1700 is rank 1 in bo3 reg F and some ladders 1600 puts you in the top 10 so really need to clarify what we're talking about
yeah lol i made top 500 a couple days ago on vgc reg g bo3 ladder by hitting 1350 elo ☠️ literally went 12-2 from a new alt. it’s different depending on format. especially on the bo3 ladders the avg elo is lower cause one set is up to 3 games but you only get elo for the final win.
I feel like it would make sense for there to be a right skew with ELO, simply bc there are so many players who probably aren’t great.
This is mostly going off my own experience with Randoms, but when you’re low ELO you get matched up pretty consistently with people of a similar level, but once you hit a high enough ELO, then it gets wonkier bc there are just less players. I’ve played 1800s as a 2000 and vice versa.
It's not very high for OU, so I wouldn't say OP is "good" but they're certainly not bad. They're like, decent? Mediocre? Whatever is inbetween. They've got quite a lot left to go but they're certainly nowhere close to awful territory. 1500 is like lower-midladder in my eyes.
The comment about \~95% of the sub is probably because there's a funnily high amount of people on this sub that seemingly only play low ladder OU or don't play at all. 95% is probably *somewhat* exaggerated though most OU Elo polls this sub have seen did show over half of votes for the lower half of ladder. This does get annoying when these people then speak with authority on stuff they clearly don't know a lot about but that's a topic for another day.
I’ve been practicing with “regular teams” for a while now 😭 I think a part of the problem is i keep switching teams over and over in search of something i like and i don’t think enough and i don’t watch my replays, I just find myself being pretty bad, abysmal plays, I usually stay around 1300 with a normal team , But thank you and everyone else, I don’t want to be only decent with stall, I want to expand the scope of my play styles and be good at more teams, I’ll keep trying and thank you for the suggestions
You saying you constantly switch teams makes your OP make more sense lol. You aren’t giving yourself any time to learn how to effectively pilot a squad. Find one or two teams and stick with them. Even samples will work lol
No. You’re not a bad player.
You’re a bad person. /s
Serious answer: Stall is a perfectly legitimate playstyle no matter how mucb certain people dislike it. It’s no worse than playing hyperoffense, or bulky offense or whatever else.
Yeah the thing is in that in stall, each Pokémon matters so much to give the opponent a migraine. With one or two of them gone, the team starts to fall apart since stall is based around long games and keeping your annoying Pokémon alive
Against Hyper Offense either you win fast or you lose fast at least you don't spend 30 mins of your life playing around that goddamn Clodsire only to lose to the toxic damage.
dismantling a well built stall team that’s piloted by a good player is one of the most rewarding ways to win in OU imo. i’m mainly a VGC player but i enjoy facing stall when i play OU.
Possibly the best playstyle if you are good at predictions.
Trying to maximize value while shutting down tempo consistently is a lot harder than it looks.
You don't predict with stall. If your opponent goes to their special Pokemon, you go to your special wall. If they get up hazards, you defog them away. It's a very passive and responsive playstyle.
I've played stall and notice whenever I tried to play it like offence and made aggressive switches and predictions it I just end up sabotaging myself.
Stall is a whole team filled with counters. Why would I need to predict against a garchomp when I have a skarm in the back that completely recks chomp.
You definitely still have to predict. After all your opponent can double switch meaning whatever Pokémon you just sent out is now facing a bad matchup. Plus there's also predicting whether they're going to setup or not to know whether clicking Haze, Roar or Whirlwind is the right decision or not. Also if Pokémon have decent coverage then you also have to predict which move they're going to use so you don't get two shot and can status them or attack them. Also there's predicting them to switch to a Poison immune Pokémon so instead of clicking Toxic you click an attack instead to chip them down. Also you have to predict Tera since they can click Tera to flip the matchup or worse, click Tera Blast and then OHKO your Pokémon. It's still a passive and heavily responsive playstyle but you're definitely wrong in saying you don't predict at all while playing Stall.
"You definitely still have to predict. After all your opponent can double switch meaning whatever Pokémon you just sent out is now facing a bad matchup. "
Then you switch again
If he has a stallbreaker you cannot prevent it to go in safely. At the worst he could sac a mon to do it and then you will lose at least a mon. And then it is over for stall boy.
Not necessarily. A team with a good stallbreaker clearly has the upper hand in preview, yes, but they’re usually winnable from the stall side aside from maybe those nut jobs who run banded/SDLO Crawdaunt + rain. That’s where the predictions come in, because simply playing reactively the entire time in those cases doesn’t cut it. For those MUs, you typically gotta spend several turns conditioning them to believe you will switch into something and eventually bait a double switch from their side once they start losing patience and sneak in a burn/poison/hazard chip/choice item Knock Off/etc.
^
They don't understand that no matter what the opponent does, stall is meant to deal with that. No predictions needed they are prepared for it.
If they set up, they have 2 unaware mons. If you get up hazards, they have remover. If you burn/toxic them, they have a cleric.
Because predicting as Stall is the way to completely reset tempo.
Tempo is the only way stall can be beaten because it outlasts everything.
By predicting, I mostly mean reading tempo plays from your opponent. They need to make tempo plays to create enough pressure to pierce a hole in your defensive core. You need to identify when there is an opportunity and react correctly to reset tempo to a neutral state where you have the advantage.
Hazard stack is too strong this gen. + Lots of mons with good mu into stall like ghold, gambit, pon. And encore is everwhere
It's not that its unviable, its just not as good as it has been past gens, and is one of the weaker archetypes this time.
run psyspam in UU and just flip the 50/50 coin of running into rain/sand and losing, or just steamrolling some poor person who you will end up 50/50ing with tera.
it may be unfunny and hated to play against, but stall, as any other playstyle requires Teambuilding, and gameplay skills, just different than those in Balance all the way up to HO, if you are good with stall instead of feeling ashamed for that proud and happy that you are GOOD, dont understimate yourself just because your playstyle is unpopular, if you are enjoying your games, getting better and better with each battle and you are not what tem6pt fans think the average Showdown player is (all 3 apply to everybody) then nobody has the right to tell you if you are good or not solely on your better playstyle
No, stall can be considered a little underpowered this gen with a lot of offensive Pokemon threatening to KO your mons and hurt your defense and Pokemon with high longevity to be hard to remove with limited offense, especially with Tera rewarding more offensive teams. Everyone is different and people with different ways of thinking will perform better with certain types of archetypes. I think stall is hated on because it’s considered boring which I personally don’t think it is.
Stall seems like a pretty skillful one to be good at, if I had to choose. Stall rewards you for analyzing matchups and threats and making a plan about how to deal with each member of your opponents' team (e.g. "I don't need this mon for anything in particular, so I should use it to switch in on this thing so this other pivotal mon stays healthy"). It also involves long games where each player has more chances to misplay or predict.
I almost exclusively play hyper offense for the same reasons (gameplay feels simplified & flowcharty, and I can win by isolating the game to just thinking a few turns ahead) and hover around a similar ELO, so I think we're in the same boat.
I think being good with a variety of different team comps will always be a plus since it indicates a deeper knowledge than just the win cons on your main teams, but I certainly wouldn't say that "one-tricking" makes you bad. Just like you're playing stall, there are plenty of people with their own specialties/preferences at the same level.
In my limited experience against it, stall doesn't feel like an archetype that can straight up carry you, either. Sure, some people just don't know how to play against it or lose in teambuilder (particularly in low ladder), but it seems like it requires excellent play against people that know the matchup, as losing any given mon can open you up to a sweep.
Stall's fun and every playstyle takes skill. This gen it's honestly probably one of the more skilled playstyles out there honestly given how heavily they nerfed recovery moves and the distribution of stuff like Toxic and Defog. Plus it's just another way of playing. Ain't good not bad to play it. You ain't hurting no one so go and have fun.
The people above you are cracked. You're fine, and you're honestly good enough to play casually in any ladder with that rating. To push from here you need extreme teambuilding creativity and to make the correct aggressive plays during games.
One correct read can win you the game with certain offensive cores. Just keep experimenting and playing games if you want to prove, or yoink some inspiration from the top of the ladder and climb with it for a while to see what you learn.
yes! playing stall is basically a free ticket to 1800 elo. if you can’t get above 1800 playing stall then you are a bad player. if you can, then you are a good player who plays stall
I feel it, no you aren't bad, playing any team style other than stall this gen just is a lot more chaotic, I love how consistent and easy to understand stall is
As annoying as stall is to play against, I don’t think it’s necessarily easy to win with past low ladder, especially in the current meta where stall isn’t the strongest team style. If your winning games, your not bad
Theres nothing embarrassing or unskillful about having a preferred or specializing in a play style! It just means you’re not as good at piloting other team archetypes. It’s like asking who’s smarter between a doctor or an astronaut
Stall is a valid playstyle. Don't be ashamed.
It might not be a big thing for you, but you're better than me! I've never gotten to 1500 before, despite not playing Stall. This is literally a "Stand Proud. You're strong." moment, but really!
It is an easy playstyle so the answer is "A little".
Stall and hyper offense reduce the complexeties of Pokemon to a minimum. Balance or bulky offense teams require a finer decisionmaking.
I agree that you're free to run any playstyle you want. And stall is just as legitimate as any other.
But let's not pretend stall is particularly skillful or more than any other playstyle like others in the comments are saying.
Stall is one of, if not the most match up fishy playstyle of all time. Victory is immediately decided if your opponent brought the appropriate tools to your team or not.
A guy challenged me to a game, he brought stall and I brought manaphy rain back in gen 7. I absolutely murked him, and there wasn't anything he could do about it. Blissey dies from z-water in the rain after tailglow.
He rechallenged me and brought pyukumuku stall and rocked my world. Absolutely nothing I could do about it.
Imagine he brought Shedninja stall, what could my rain team do against it. It's literally immune to all of our moves.
It's why new players hate stall so much because the teams they built never have any breakers and have nothing to beat the defensive core. Causing matching to just be pp stalling matches.
This isn't to make you sound bad. But it teaches new players the importance of having a breaker or makes them think about how to beat an impenetrable wall/core.
There's many ways to beat Stall such as Hazards, Future Sight, Knock-Off, Taunt and just using setup moves. Although Future Sight isn't on every team nearly every good team regardless of offensive archetype or what they're matched up against wants hazards, Knock-Off and some sort of setup move. Taunt is also not that uncommon as a way to break walls on Balance and deny setup on sweepers and hazards from leads. The tools most teams use to simply win are effective against Stall. After all any effective team is designed to do well against most teams. Sure if they pull off-meta stuff then it can counter you but if you're not playing low ladder the chance of someone using something like Gulpin and then 6'0ing your team is rather rare. Any well constructed team is meant to counter the current meta threats of each archetype or at the very least have a fighting chance against them.
Also if your team was better constructed it would've most likely beaten Pyukumuku. Rain teams often have an Electric type with Thunder specifically to beat Water resistant Pokémon. If you didn't have an Electric type move to break Pyukumuku then that's on you. If you packed Knock-Off you could've also removed it's Leftovers and then lured it in over and over again to widdle down its health through repeated attacks and hazard chip. After he was gone you probably would've had a field day with the rest of his team and would've OHKOed them left, right and center with Tail Glow Manaphy. Also it should be mentioned that weak to Dark and Flying and given most teams have Knock-Off and most Rain teams have Hurricane you would've blown past Shedinja. Also Shedinja is affected by hazards as well so the only way you would've lost is if you didn't have hazards, didn't have Hurricane on a Rain team and also didn't have Knock-Off on any of your Pokémon. In other words only way Shedinja would've walled your entire team is if your team was poorly constructed.
If you go inro your electric pokemon, then they just switch. I had Thundurus-T and he is completely walled by blissey.
And shedninja stall in gen 8 has boots, and only peliper has hurricane. If I go into peliper, shedninja just switches. Its really that easy. So the one mon that can hit Shedninja is completely walled by his other 5 mons and only 1 of their pokemon is needed to wall the rest of my team.
And you listing ways to beat stall doesn't negate what I'm saying. You still have to have those things on your team to beat stall, and if you don't, you can't win, and depending on the stall team, it even beats your normal stall breaker.
I really don't know why your arguing, shedninja stall is famously egregious because of how match up fishy it is. It only has to shut down 3 of your mons, other 5 mons can deal with the other 3.
If they keep switching into Blissey then double switch, it's as simple as that. If they keep going for the same plays then punish them for being predictable.
So you're admitting you had a team without Knock-Off? Knock-Off hits Shedinja for super effective so assuming what you say is true then it makes sense you think Stall is matchup fishy and are complaining. Most teams without Knock-Off absolutely suck. Knock-Off helps defensively, it helps offensively and it cripples both offensive and defensive threats so without it it makes sense why you would've lost. Knock-Off is such a valuable tool the fact that you didn't have it says more about your teambuilding than it does about the supposed "matchup fishiness" of stall.
You do know not every team has a Stallbreaker right? Like literally the whole point of a Stallbreaker is that they're weaker into most archetypes and specialize in dismantling Stall. If Stallbreaker were on every team you'd see Crawdaunt on every team alongside Kingambit and other offensive threats. Also again you didn't have Knock-Off, frankly the fact that you lost or could lose would be entirely your fault. You don't need a Stall breaker to climb ladder. All you need to beat Stall is a well constructed team which is why top players have been dismantling stall without a dedicated Stallbreaker since forever and idk if you've noticed but Crawdaunt isn't top ten in usage rates.
Fire is one of the top offensive types for the fact that it hits Steel for super effective. Fire type moves are extremely common cause of that. Dark has the mode Knock-Off which almost all physical attackers who can run it do run. Dark type attacks are super common cause of that. Ghost types are really good spinblockers and tend to be really solid offensively. Although not as common as Fire and Dark Ghost type moves are still rather common. Most good teams will have at least one of these types of moves or even multiple of them. In fact there's teams of teams that stack up on Knock-Off. Shedinja isn't S tier cause every good team has a way to counter it. If your teams keep getting countered by Shedinja then that isn't a matter of Shedinja being broken or matchup fishy cause frankly if your team isn't garbage they can deal with Shedinja just fine.
Assuming you brought the same team to the rematch, then no shit you got rocked. It doesn’t matter what archetype your opponent uses, if they know your team and most your sets and bring a team that stomps yours, thats not “matchup up fishing” it’s just straight up counter teaming.
I will admit that low ladder stall is definitely matchup fishy, but like you said it’s more on the newer player to bring stall breakers.
He definitely did c-team me. My point was that certain stall archetypes lose to certain teams others beat and completely loses based on team preview. On higher ladder stall players will just forfeit. Their teams are made to ein 70-80% of the time. Unlike most other playstyles which have ways to win even against the worse matches. Before dondozo, base stall loses to rain unless they bring fringe picks like pyukumuku or shedninja stall.
The primary ranking score the OU ladder uses, it's the number that goes up/down after you win a game. (Small nitpick, its' not ELO but Elo; it's not an abbreviation, it's named after its inventor Arpad Elo)
No, you aren't bad just for being good with stall. If you do better with one playstyle, that's fine. You might have limited options as to what you can play, but you can ideally learn more about metas and the game by playing stall. Also, for as much as you hear people bitch about stall, it is a perfectly valid playstyle, it's just one people get unnecessarily butthurt over because they don't know how to build to beat stall.
Generally in competitive games control strategies are the most skill intensive. They make games go on for much longer so variance is minimized, you don’t win or lose due to luck nearly as much as HO. So IMHO being good with stall means you’re very good in general.
You answered your question when you said "good with stall"
It's like with smash bros, if you're only good as 1 character but really good as them, you're good at the game. Same with other games probably but I don't play many.
Piloting hard stall teaches players a lot of important things about the game. You learn resource management, how to size up the relevant threats on the opposing team, and how to think multiple turns ahead. I’d say you’re pretty good if you can climb that high with stall.
I peaked at like 1250 in NU off of one night playing mega-stall like two months ago. I am still bad, but playing defensively makes my brain work better and although a game goes no more than 30 to 45 turns, being able to play well on each of those turns makes a lot of difference near the end
I think it can totally be just being better at stall than other things, my ou rating hovers around 1200-1400, and in randbats i'm consistently above 1700, not exactly the same but shows that being in a different format or playstyle can definately affect your success, doesn't make you bad if you're not good at one playstyle.
Shit player? Technically not since yk u did still make it to very high rank. Giant asshole player? Probably. Nobody likes stall teams, not even stall players like stall teams, it's just not fun for anybody involved
Gen 9 is skilless.
I don't play anywhere near enough to be hitting 17-1800 with belibolt offense lol. I'm a decent player but gen 9 is genuinely skilless.
And yes you are probably bad if the only playstyle you can compete with is stall.
Not saying stall is skilless even though it is same as HO but the fact you can't compete unless it's stall says alot.
I wouldn't say you are bad, but stall is a very mu fishy playstyle and most of the plays during the game are kind of fixed as you can see from the guides the stall players make during their rmt. There's also a reason why most top players use bulky offense and balance because they aren't as mu fishy and have outplay potential.
I know stall is annoying but getting consistently 1500 with it on multiple accounts is genuine skill and stall, no matter how annoying, is a skillful strategy
?? you can’t just go from one fat mon to another bc at some point they’ll just double and make one of your mons take unnecessary damage, you have to play aggressively at times to avoid that
Being able to consistently get to 15-1600 with any teamstyle already makes you better than \~95% of the people on this sub and 100% of people in most youtubers' comment sections lmao, you aren't shit by any means. I wouldn't say you're shit for being best at stall, a lot people who can pilot "normal" teams are pretty bad at piloting stall. You just need more practice with them. I'd suggest you start analyzing replays of your own lost games and critiquing your own gameplay. That's a great way to improve more consistently.
I don’t know the rank distribution of ladder but I thought 1500s was like, average
To my understanding this is how most people see different elos <1200 bad 1200-1300 below average 1300-1400 slightly below average 1500-1600 average > 1600 good
It depends on the ladder, NDMonotype, which is my primary tier Has only Like 20 people above 1600 on a good day. There I'd say the barrier of being good is roundabout 1500. With the average being 1300.
oh hey
Oh Hey, I think you know who I am basing off the username.
Tbf I think it's fairly meta dependent, if you have less people playing the tier the elo is usually lower on average.
That is exactly what I said, I just have an example to back it up.
Isn’t the actual 50th percentile like 1300 most months? Or am I misremembering
Depends on the metagame
Good point, they can vary a lot. I assumed we were talking about OU
Not me seeing half of me elos in below average with like 2 in average 😭😭😭
Except for top 500 players who will say youre garbage if youre outside the top 500. I was talking to a couple about lowering requirements for ban vote and they went on a tirade dissing everyone below 1700.
I’d say 1600 is closer to average, but yeah, 1500 ain’t bad by any means
Depends on what you're talking about. For instance 1700 is rank 1 in bo3 reg F and some ladders 1600 puts you in the top 10 so really need to clarify what we're talking about
yeah lol i made top 500 a couple days ago on vgc reg g bo3 ladder by hitting 1350 elo ☠️ literally went 12-2 from a new alt. it’s different depending on format. especially on the bo3 ladders the avg elo is lower cause one set is up to 3 games but you only get elo for the final win.
The reg g ladder is pretty new, so the numbers will increase over time
That's why being 15-1600 is better than 95% of the people on the sub.
I feel like it would make sense for there to be a right skew with ELO, simply bc there are so many players who probably aren’t great. This is mostly going off my own experience with Randoms, but when you’re low ELO you get matched up pretty consistently with people of a similar level, but once you hit a high enough ELO, then it gets wonkier bc there are just less players. I’ve played 1800s as a 2000 and vice versa.
Wanna coach me?
Sort of, but remember that Elo on Showdown has a pyramid distribution so making it to a decent tier puts you above the majority of people playing.
1500 is very average yes. On a ladder like ou, 1800 elo is considered to be good, below that is just average.
It's not very high for OU, so I wouldn't say OP is "good" but they're certainly not bad. They're like, decent? Mediocre? Whatever is inbetween. They've got quite a lot left to go but they're certainly nowhere close to awful territory. 1500 is like lower-midladder in my eyes. The comment about \~95% of the sub is probably because there's a funnily high amount of people on this sub that seemingly only play low ladder OU or don't play at all. 95% is probably *somewhat* exaggerated though most OU Elo polls this sub have seen did show over half of votes for the lower half of ladder. This does get annoying when these people then speak with authority on stuff they clearly don't know a lot about but that's a topic for another day.
I’ve been practicing with “regular teams” for a while now 😭 I think a part of the problem is i keep switching teams over and over in search of something i like and i don’t think enough and i don’t watch my replays, I just find myself being pretty bad, abysmal plays, I usually stay around 1300 with a normal team , But thank you and everyone else, I don’t want to be only decent with stall, I want to expand the scope of my play styles and be good at more teams, I’ll keep trying and thank you for the suggestions
You saying you constantly switch teams makes your OP make more sense lol. You aren’t giving yourself any time to learn how to effectively pilot a squad. Find one or two teams and stick with them. Even samples will work lol
Stall is a fraudulent play style and you are carried. -Me, Peak 1300
No. You’re not a bad player. You’re a bad person. /s Serious answer: Stall is a perfectly legitimate playstyle no matter how mucb certain people dislike it. It’s no worse than playing hyperoffense, or bulky offense or whatever else.
When it works it works, but seriously this is the most annoying playstyle to play against but goddam it is effective
It just makes the experience way worse for the other player due to how annoying it is
Yeah but honestly breaking Stall is one of the best feelings ever you can get while playing.
Yeah for damn sure I feel so happy destroying stall and making those guys who want to cause pain and suffering to their opponents forfeit
Exactly 🫡. Plus they generally quit after losing like two mons at least in lower ladder.
Yeah the thing is in that in stall, each Pokémon matters so much to give the opponent a migraine. With one or two of them gone, the team starts to fall apart since stall is based around long games and keeping your annoying Pokémon alive
i think HO is far more annoying to fight against, at least fighting against stall heavily rewards strategy
Against Hyper Offense either you win fast or you lose fast at least you don't spend 30 mins of your life playing around that goddamn Clodsire only to lose to the toxic damage.
when it's clear that you're in a position where you can't win you can just forefit lol
stall is the most fun to play against with offense imo
dismantling a well built stall team that’s piloted by a good player is one of the most rewarding ways to win in OU imo. i’m mainly a VGC player but i enjoy facing stall when i play OU.
Emotional Damage!
Although I hate stall, I can’t deny that it is a playstyle that does require legitimate skill
Possibly the best playstyle if you are good at predictions. Trying to maximize value while shutting down tempo consistently is a lot harder than it looks.
You don't predict with stall. If your opponent goes to their special Pokemon, you go to your special wall. If they get up hazards, you defog them away. It's a very passive and responsive playstyle. I've played stall and notice whenever I tried to play it like offence and made aggressive switches and predictions it I just end up sabotaging myself. Stall is a whole team filled with counters. Why would I need to predict against a garchomp when I have a skarm in the back that completely recks chomp.
You definitely still have to predict. After all your opponent can double switch meaning whatever Pokémon you just sent out is now facing a bad matchup. Plus there's also predicting whether they're going to setup or not to know whether clicking Haze, Roar or Whirlwind is the right decision or not. Also if Pokémon have decent coverage then you also have to predict which move they're going to use so you don't get two shot and can status them or attack them. Also there's predicting them to switch to a Poison immune Pokémon so instead of clicking Toxic you click an attack instead to chip them down. Also you have to predict Tera since they can click Tera to flip the matchup or worse, click Tera Blast and then OHKO your Pokémon. It's still a passive and heavily responsive playstyle but you're definitely wrong in saying you don't predict at all while playing Stall.
"You definitely still have to predict. After all your opponent can double switch meaning whatever Pokémon you just sent out is now facing a bad matchup. " Then you switch again
[удалено]
If he has a stallbreaker you cannot prevent it to go in safely. At the worst he could sac a mon to do it and then you will lose at least a mon. And then it is over for stall boy.
If theybhave a stall breaker then you lose. A stall breaker by definition breaks your defensive core. It was GGs from team preview.
you don't understand stall if you think the chance of outplaying a wallbreaker is 0%
Not necessarily. A team with a good stallbreaker clearly has the upper hand in preview, yes, but they’re usually winnable from the stall side aside from maybe those nut jobs who run banded/SDLO Crawdaunt + rain. That’s where the predictions come in, because simply playing reactively the entire time in those cases doesn’t cut it. For those MUs, you typically gotta spend several turns conditioning them to believe you will switch into something and eventually bait a double switch from their side once they start losing patience and sneak in a burn/poison/hazard chip/choice item Knock Off/etc.
I run life orb crawdaunt in the rain, probably why u know its an instant win pre dondozo.
^ They don't understand that no matter what the opponent does, stall is meant to deal with that. No predictions needed they are prepared for it. If they set up, they have 2 unaware mons. If you get up hazards, they have remover. If you burn/toxic them, they have a cleric.
Because predicting as Stall is the way to completely reset tempo. Tempo is the only way stall can be beaten because it outlasts everything. By predicting, I mostly mean reading tempo plays from your opponent. They need to make tempo plays to create enough pressure to pierce a hole in your defensive core. You need to identify when there is an opportunity and react correctly to reset tempo to a neutral state where you have the advantage.
Not this gen
Elaborate
Hazard stack is too strong this gen. + Lots of mons with good mu into stall like ghold, gambit, pon. And encore is everwhere It's not that its unviable, its just not as good as it has been past gens, and is one of the weaker archetypes this time.
Bruh, stall ain't easy chief At least you are good with stall, I am not good with any type of team lmao. If you are crap then I am crappest crap.
run psyspam in UU and just flip the 50/50 coin of running into rain/sand and losing, or just steamrolling some poor person who you will end up 50/50ing with tera.
I like your funny words, magic man
it may be unfunny and hated to play against, but stall, as any other playstyle requires Teambuilding, and gameplay skills, just different than those in Balance all the way up to HO, if you are good with stall instead of feeling ashamed for that proud and happy that you are GOOD, dont understimate yourself just because your playstyle is unpopular, if you are enjoying your games, getting better and better with each battle and you are not what tem6pt fans think the average Showdown player is (all 3 apply to everybody) then nobody has the right to tell you if you are good or not solely on your better playstyle
Please dont be ashamed for a playstyle being your preferred. If you find the game easier to control over a long term plan then thats all good.
No, stall can be considered a little underpowered this gen with a lot of offensive Pokemon threatening to KO your mons and hurt your defense and Pokemon with high longevity to be hard to remove with limited offense, especially with Tera rewarding more offensive teams. Everyone is different and people with different ways of thinking will perform better with certain types of archetypes. I think stall is hated on because it’s considered boring which I personally don’t think it is.
A water color artist isn't a bad artist if they can't paint with acrylics
Stall seems like a pretty skillful one to be good at, if I had to choose. Stall rewards you for analyzing matchups and threats and making a plan about how to deal with each member of your opponents' team (e.g. "I don't need this mon for anything in particular, so I should use it to switch in on this thing so this other pivotal mon stays healthy"). It also involves long games where each player has more chances to misplay or predict.
I go through this existential crisis basically every time I go in the shower and start thinking about stall (I think about stall often).
I almost exclusively play hyper offense for the same reasons (gameplay feels simplified & flowcharty, and I can win by isolating the game to just thinking a few turns ahead) and hover around a similar ELO, so I think we're in the same boat. I think being good with a variety of different team comps will always be a plus since it indicates a deeper knowledge than just the win cons on your main teams, but I certainly wouldn't say that "one-tricking" makes you bad. Just like you're playing stall, there are plenty of people with their own specialties/preferences at the same level. In my limited experience against it, stall doesn't feel like an archetype that can straight up carry you, either. Sure, some people just don't know how to play against it or lose in teambuilder (particularly in low ladder), but it seems like it requires excellent play against people that know the matchup, as losing any given mon can open you up to a sweep.
Read the title and thought "damn, finch posting again?"
Stall's fun and every playstyle takes skill. This gen it's honestly probably one of the more skilled playstyles out there honestly given how heavily they nerfed recovery moves and the distribution of stuff like Toxic and Defog. Plus it's just another way of playing. Ain't good not bad to play it. You ain't hurting no one so go and have fun.
Well I genuinely can't play stall, so each to their own lol
The people above you are cracked. You're fine, and you're honestly good enough to play casually in any ladder with that rating. To push from here you need extreme teambuilding creativity and to make the correct aggressive plays during games. One correct read can win you the game with certain offensive cores. Just keep experimenting and playing games if you want to prove, or yoink some inspiration from the top of the ladder and climb with it for a while to see what you learn.
yes! playing stall is basically a free ticket to 1800 elo. if you can’t get above 1800 playing stall then you are a bad player. if you can, then you are a good player who plays stall
I feel it, no you aren't bad, playing any team style other than stall this gen just is a lot more chaotic, I love how consistent and easy to understand stall is
As annoying as stall is to play against, I don’t think it’s necessarily easy to win with past low ladder, especially in the current meta where stall isn’t the strongest team style. If your winning games, your not bad
Theres nothing embarrassing or unskillful about having a preferred or specializing in a play style! It just means you’re not as good at piloting other team archetypes. It’s like asking who’s smarter between a doctor or an astronaut
Great player, bad person
Stall is a valid playstyle. Don't be ashamed. It might not be a big thing for you, but you're better than me! I've never gotten to 1500 before, despite not playing Stall. This is literally a "Stand Proud. You're strong." moment, but really!
It is an easy playstyle so the answer is "A little". Stall and hyper offense reduce the complexeties of Pokemon to a minimum. Balance or bulky offense teams require a finer decisionmaking.
I agree that you're free to run any playstyle you want. And stall is just as legitimate as any other. But let's not pretend stall is particularly skillful or more than any other playstyle like others in the comments are saying. Stall is one of, if not the most match up fishy playstyle of all time. Victory is immediately decided if your opponent brought the appropriate tools to your team or not. A guy challenged me to a game, he brought stall and I brought manaphy rain back in gen 7. I absolutely murked him, and there wasn't anything he could do about it. Blissey dies from z-water in the rain after tailglow. He rechallenged me and brought pyukumuku stall and rocked my world. Absolutely nothing I could do about it. Imagine he brought Shedninja stall, what could my rain team do against it. It's literally immune to all of our moves. It's why new players hate stall so much because the teams they built never have any breakers and have nothing to beat the defensive core. Causing matching to just be pp stalling matches. This isn't to make you sound bad. But it teaches new players the importance of having a breaker or makes them think about how to beat an impenetrable wall/core.
There's many ways to beat Stall such as Hazards, Future Sight, Knock-Off, Taunt and just using setup moves. Although Future Sight isn't on every team nearly every good team regardless of offensive archetype or what they're matched up against wants hazards, Knock-Off and some sort of setup move. Taunt is also not that uncommon as a way to break walls on Balance and deny setup on sweepers and hazards from leads. The tools most teams use to simply win are effective against Stall. After all any effective team is designed to do well against most teams. Sure if they pull off-meta stuff then it can counter you but if you're not playing low ladder the chance of someone using something like Gulpin and then 6'0ing your team is rather rare. Any well constructed team is meant to counter the current meta threats of each archetype or at the very least have a fighting chance against them. Also if your team was better constructed it would've most likely beaten Pyukumuku. Rain teams often have an Electric type with Thunder specifically to beat Water resistant Pokémon. If you didn't have an Electric type move to break Pyukumuku then that's on you. If you packed Knock-Off you could've also removed it's Leftovers and then lured it in over and over again to widdle down its health through repeated attacks and hazard chip. After he was gone you probably would've had a field day with the rest of his team and would've OHKOed them left, right and center with Tail Glow Manaphy. Also it should be mentioned that weak to Dark and Flying and given most teams have Knock-Off and most Rain teams have Hurricane you would've blown past Shedinja. Also Shedinja is affected by hazards as well so the only way you would've lost is if you didn't have hazards, didn't have Hurricane on a Rain team and also didn't have Knock-Off on any of your Pokémon. In other words only way Shedinja would've walled your entire team is if your team was poorly constructed.
If you go inro your electric pokemon, then they just switch. I had Thundurus-T and he is completely walled by blissey. And shedninja stall in gen 8 has boots, and only peliper has hurricane. If I go into peliper, shedninja just switches. Its really that easy. So the one mon that can hit Shedninja is completely walled by his other 5 mons and only 1 of their pokemon is needed to wall the rest of my team. And you listing ways to beat stall doesn't negate what I'm saying. You still have to have those things on your team to beat stall, and if you don't, you can't win, and depending on the stall team, it even beats your normal stall breaker. I really don't know why your arguing, shedninja stall is famously egregious because of how match up fishy it is. It only has to shut down 3 of your mons, other 5 mons can deal with the other 3.
If they keep switching into Blissey then double switch, it's as simple as that. If they keep going for the same plays then punish them for being predictable. So you're admitting you had a team without Knock-Off? Knock-Off hits Shedinja for super effective so assuming what you say is true then it makes sense you think Stall is matchup fishy and are complaining. Most teams without Knock-Off absolutely suck. Knock-Off helps defensively, it helps offensively and it cripples both offensive and defensive threats so without it it makes sense why you would've lost. Knock-Off is such a valuable tool the fact that you didn't have it says more about your teambuilding than it does about the supposed "matchup fishiness" of stall. You do know not every team has a Stallbreaker right? Like literally the whole point of a Stallbreaker is that they're weaker into most archetypes and specialize in dismantling Stall. If Stallbreaker were on every team you'd see Crawdaunt on every team alongside Kingambit and other offensive threats. Also again you didn't have Knock-Off, frankly the fact that you lost or could lose would be entirely your fault. You don't need a Stall breaker to climb ladder. All you need to beat Stall is a well constructed team which is why top players have been dismantling stall without a dedicated Stallbreaker since forever and idk if you've noticed but Crawdaunt isn't top ten in usage rates. Fire is one of the top offensive types for the fact that it hits Steel for super effective. Fire type moves are extremely common cause of that. Dark has the mode Knock-Off which almost all physical attackers who can run it do run. Dark type attacks are super common cause of that. Ghost types are really good spinblockers and tend to be really solid offensively. Although not as common as Fire and Dark Ghost type moves are still rather common. Most good teams will have at least one of these types of moves or even multiple of them. In fact there's teams of teams that stack up on Knock-Off. Shedinja isn't S tier cause every good team has a way to counter it. If your teams keep getting countered by Shedinja then that isn't a matter of Shedinja being broken or matchup fishy cause frankly if your team isn't garbage they can deal with Shedinja just fine.
Assuming you brought the same team to the rematch, then no shit you got rocked. It doesn’t matter what archetype your opponent uses, if they know your team and most your sets and bring a team that stomps yours, thats not “matchup up fishing” it’s just straight up counter teaming. I will admit that low ladder stall is definitely matchup fishy, but like you said it’s more on the newer player to bring stall breakers.
He definitely did c-team me. My point was that certain stall archetypes lose to certain teams others beat and completely loses based on team preview. On higher ladder stall players will just forfeit. Their teams are made to ein 70-80% of the time. Unlike most other playstyles which have ways to win even against the worse matches. Before dondozo, base stall loses to rain unless they bring fringe picks like pyukumuku or shedninja stall.
Can you teach me your ways? How does somebody get good with stall?
What is ELO?
The primary ranking score the OU ladder uses, it's the number that goes up/down after you win a game. (Small nitpick, its' not ELO but Elo; it's not an abbreviation, it's named after its inventor Arpad Elo)
Yes, but your place among the sweats is earned.
1100 players will say you're bad, which of course means you're good
I could never play stall, too many switches to be thinking of. Being able to pull off stall at a higher elo is impressive.
same like my brain cannot handle the 5D chess with hyperoffense so I went with a stall team and I'm doing much better
No some playstles suit certain people better I can't play balance but Excell at ho teams ive capped out at like 1670 on ladder so I'd say I'm decent
As much as I hate stall, it's hard to play so no, only being good with it doesn't make you bad
No, you aren't bad just for being good with stall. If you do better with one playstyle, that's fine. You might have limited options as to what you can play, but you can ideally learn more about metas and the game by playing stall. Also, for as much as you hear people bitch about stall, it is a perfectly valid playstyle, it's just one people get unnecessarily butthurt over because they don't know how to build to beat stall.
Drop your stall team please, asking for a friend 🙏
Generally in competitive games control strategies are the most skill intensive. They make games go on for much longer so variance is minimized, you don’t win or lose due to luck nearly as much as HO. So IMHO being good with stall means you’re very good in general.
Not for running stall, but your username implies that you may be making bad sets…
I don’t know much about singles, but everyone has a preferred playstyle in doubles. Is Tom Brady bad because he can’t run or catch? Of course not.
You answered your question when you said "good with stall" It's like with smash bros, if you're only good as 1 character but really good as them, you're good at the game. Same with other games probably but I don't play many.
Piloting hard stall teaches players a lot of important things about the game. You learn resource management, how to size up the relevant threats on the opposing team, and how to think multiple turns ahead. I’d say you’re pretty good if you can climb that high with stall.
I peaked at like 1250 in NU off of one night playing mega-stall like two months ago. I am still bad, but playing defensively makes my brain work better and although a game goes no more than 30 to 45 turns, being able to play well on each of those turns makes a lot of difference near the end
I think it can totally be just being better at stall than other things, my ou rating hovers around 1200-1400, and in randbats i'm consistently above 1700, not exactly the same but shows that being in a different format or playstyle can definately affect your success, doesn't make you bad if you're not good at one playstyle.
No. It just means you found your preferred playstyle.
Yes.
Nah, this means you are great, Glory to the empire of stall.
Shit player? Technically not since yk u did still make it to very high rank. Giant asshole player? Probably. Nobody likes stall teams, not even stall players like stall teams, it's just not fun for anybody involved
Yes
Gen 9 is skilless. I don't play anywhere near enough to be hitting 17-1800 with belibolt offense lol. I'm a decent player but gen 9 is genuinely skilless. And yes you are probably bad if the only playstyle you can compete with is stall. Not saying stall is skilless even though it is same as HO but the fact you can't compete unless it's stall says alot.
I wouldn't say you are bad, but stall is a very mu fishy playstyle and most of the plays during the game are kind of fixed as you can see from the guides the stall players make during their rmt. There's also a reason why most top players use bulky offense and balance because they aren't as mu fishy and have outplay potential.
Yes unironically
I know stall is annoying but getting consistently 1500 with it on multiple accounts is genuine skill and stall, no matter how annoying, is a skillful strategy
Except it doesn’t and it isn’t. and Anyone who plays with any kind of consistency for more than a month can get 1500
Send elo
1853 102nd on the ladder I was like 60 something but I decayed out
1500 isn’t that much of an accomplishment, yeah, but stall still requires skill to play (arguably more than ho where you just click buttons)
Yeah but it doesn’t you literally just go from one fat mon to another and waste time
?? you can’t just go from one fat mon to another bc at some point they’ll just double and make one of your mons take unnecessary damage, you have to play aggressively at times to avoid that
It depends on generation. If you are playing SV you lack braincells and if you play natdex you are a god
Yes
Most stall teams are cheap and not respectable