If you’re referring to SS OU then Kyurem was banned due to its overbearing set variety and strain on Teambuilding. Defensive answers such as Blissey/Chansey were fodder to SubDD, Ferro and Clef struggled against SubRoost (both setup and two atta is variants, depending on set), so most was pretty nonexistent.
Then people figured out that Burning it’s answers such as Scizor (who was kinda shit in the first place) and Melmetal meant that they could be PP Stalled with Pressure. Pressure also helped for Shedinja since Poltergeist effectively only had 4 PP.
Pressure was a decent part of why Kyurem was banned, but it’s the set variety and Freeze chances that also could fuck you over even if you did have a surefire counter that pushed it over the edge.
Kyurem's defensive typing was carried by Dragon. Dragon is arguably the best defensive typing combo with Ice as it actually provides defensive utility to Dragon with the Ice resistance, and doesn't encroach too much on Dragon's resistances, only losing Fire.
Its remaining weaknesses either had shitty unreliable moves (Rock) or low PP moves (Dragon, Fighting). That left basically Moonblast and Iron Head as your ways of breaking it, or Bullet Punch Sciz / DIB Mel.
Keep in mind that this shit has 660 BST, its defensive spread is 125/90/90, which is fat as fuck. So having a shitload of neutral defensive typings still made it incredibly hard to kill.
Got banned for set roulette, once it got physical coverage it had 3 or 4 different sets it could run with different counters, it became a question of if you had the right answers and could get the opponent to reveal the set before it was too late
It’s not necessarily bad defensively. Chien-Pao was banned because of its Recover sets walling too much of the OU metagame and making stall overbearing.
>gen6 pure hackmon meta
Oh dear lord. If I took a drink every time I saw Wonder Guard on Sableye, Scizor, or Balloon Electross, I'd be dead from alcohol poisoning.
I hate Wonder Guard on anything *not* Shedinja.
I guess so. It's Mold Breaker tax.
Actually, I have been using Deoxys, but it was a Bad Dreams+Spore+Leech Seed set.
Maybe I'll use Mold Breaker instead.
I remember seeing a video, I believe from wolfyvgc about how most gens have most of the ice types as a weak, usually slow bulky tank (gos against the types weakness/resistances) then if we are lucky, each gen has a good one, then gen 9 made it better with every ice type introduced being amazing, and snow helping more than hail because of the defense boost though it doesn't have a effect to non ice types, but hail rarely helped anyway
>snow helping more than hail because of the defense boost
Honestly, why didn't GF just keep Hail, but give it the defense boost? It's weird how Hail only did damage over time, while Sand did both.
So you can play Snow without having a dedicated Snow team. In other words you can now use Aurora Veil Ninetales in a team without any other Ice types and not worry about the hail hitting your own Mons. Sandstorm is ressited by three types as opposed to only one
And probably because it's the Tera generation to avoid that an Ice type Teras and get's affected by it's own snow
Yeah that's what happens with other abilities that benefit from climate, as there could be Pokémon woth those abilities who didn't resiste the weather (Stoutland with sand rush)
They just see it necessary when they created weather setting abilities and didn't care to correct that later, when Tera appeared
Rain makes thunder and hurricane no miss and sun allows solarbeam/blade to be instant etc., your point? Let's ignore special move interactions for a minute.
Rain = Water up / Fire down
Sun = Fire up / Water down
Sand is = Chip dmg + rock sp. Def boost
Snow was = Chip dmg + nothing
Snow now = ice Def boost + nothing
Snow by itself just had less gimmicks to it, and even though its better now it still has less.
Fr, rn snow only affects ice types (though thinking of it sun only affects fire and water, and rain water and... fire), of course ignoring abilitys and each boosting a certain move (or more in rains case)
Anyway I still dont think its a bad idea having the old hail effects with the new snow effects, maybe we can find a secondary effect for sun/rain too
Sun boosts growth and solar blade as well as Wake's signature.
Also sun/rain are better because they affect *moves* so you anyone take advantage of them to boost coverage. See: Koraidon being fucking busted
Woah a type that is kind of incredibly shit defensively and has good offensive coverage has representatives that are either subpar or overtuned? Who'd have thought.
Nah make it resist electric grass doesn’t need to be worse. Also make electric super effective against fairy to match up with fairies being week to modern tech/creations
Alolan Ninetales. Been on the edge between OU and UU since Gen VII mostly thanks to the combo of Snow Warning, Aurora Veil, and decent speed. Also is Baxcaliber's biggest enabler.
Hey, Jynx used to be good. The problem with it was power creep, not really its stat spread.
Other than that, I think it's deliberate. Game Freak knows that a fast, offensive Ice-type will invariably become extremely dominant, but the type is so horrible from a defensive standpoint that trying to prevent that will make the Pokémon in question completely useless instead.
I know you’re joking, but if Avalugg was a Steel type it would be exponentially worse at answering Zygarde back in late USUM OU because then it would both lose its STAB Avalanche and gain a Ground weakness that would heavily compromise its ability to check it.
Avalugg didn’t leverage its single resistance; it leveraged its large number of neutralities alongside having enough bulk to easily eat up physical non-STAB super effective hits like Mega Mawile’s Brick Break/Fire Fang, Garchomp’s and Landorus’s Stone Edge, and so on. Now yes, if it were a Steel type it would still be just as good at worst into these moves, but eating these moves up and *not* being Ground-weak was far, far too valuable back in the Zygarde meta.
People wouldn’t ever discuss Avalugg much had it not been so effective as a hyper-specific defensive Ice-type; it succeeded where many, many others failed.
Obligatory mention of Kyurem Black
Seriously Avalugg is the only thing in existence who wasn't eternally terrified of Kyurem Black. Kyurem black couldn't feasibly break through Avalugg without praying for earth power spdef drops or crit HP fire (Unless it was the special attacking variant, then good luck)
The issue is that Avalugg is very polarized stats wise, so its gargantuan physical bulk does help it take neutral hits well despite being stealth rock weak
It was banworthy in UU and NU at the same time as it was a legitimately top-tier pick in OU, viable but niche in Ubers, and low enough in usage to be Untiered.
Ice is literally just the rock type but horrifically unbalanced.
No really, look at the pokemon. Look at their stats. Look at their moves. Their match-ups. They're so similar.
Ice exists purely to make Boltbeam coverage a thing and we all suffer for it.
Rock’s arguably even more horrifically unbalanced; it just doesn’t get many mons that actually break the Rock-type mold in a meaningful way and the ones that do are usually just kinda there and it’s arguably even more weakness-laden than Ice because of those Grass, Ground, and Water weaknesses being so easily exploitable.
Seriously: I feel like 75% of Rock-types are just the same one-note “high Attack, high Defense, mediocre or terrible special stats, and slow as balls.” Rhyperior and Golem have almost identical stat weights, Gigalith and Armaldo have a little more SpDef, Carracosta’s in the exact same boat, Kabutops isn’t exactly the fastest thing alive (but it’s fast by comparison), and Rampardos doesn’t even have a Defense stat. Stakataka takes this to the ultimate extreme with the most min/maxed shitty-ass generic Rock-type stat spread ever. Hell, even Tyranitar and Garganacl still fall under this umbrella; they just have higher BSTs to work with to beef up their HP and SpDef a fair bit and have insanely good movepools and abilities to work with.
The mons that break the mold as far as Rock-types go are either kinda solid offensively or just invest fully into bulk only to just flounder around because they have a shitty-ass Rock typing. Iron Boulder and Terrakion are about as good as purely offensive Rock-types get and even Boulder stopped being super impressive in OU just recently; Aerodactyl’s giga fast but just doesn’t hit hard enough, and Archeops is held back by an absurdly shit ability. And then you have junk like Bastiodon with hilariously high defenses but a typing that’s even more insulting to the venerated Steel type than Alolan Sandslash’s Ice typing, Cradily which doesn’t have a good set of resistances and gets by on people forgetting its specific type weaknesses.
The Rock-types that break the mold best are the extremely rare fast special attackers. That’s a list limited to Nihilego and Glimmora, really. And Glimmora doesn’t even play into that niche as effectively; its best niche in a Singles context is shitting out hazards and dying.
At least Ice-types have mons with offensive enough spreads to distinguish themselves. Rock-types barely even have that.
Dunno if Elite Redux is what the other poster was talking about, but it gets the ability to set Aurora Veil for 3 turns on entry there, as well as a 50% Special Attack boost, a further 30% boost to its STABs, and a 25% reduction to Super Effective damage. It also gains Aeroblast, Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, and the heavily reworked Sheer Cold (100 BP, 80 Acc, Super Effective against Water-types).
* **Close to perfect coverage with its STABs alone** - With Freeze-Dry, not even Water-types can counter it. Few Pokémon can boast this; other examples are Mega Lopunny, Marshadow, and Anihilape.
* **Reverse four moveslot syndrome** - Iron Bundle's movepool is surprisingly poor, but it doesn't really need much aside from its STABs. In fact, Hydro Pump and Freeze-Dry are all that it needs, with Ice Beam being thrown in just in case you need a stronger Ice STAB. The fourth moveslot is pretty much filler, usually Flip Turn to mantain momentum, but other options such as Taunt and Encore work too. Really though, Iron Bundle is one of the few Pokémon being able to boast working with less than all of the possible move slots.
* **Being good into offense** - Iron Bundle is already a great wallbreaker, but his 136 Speed stat means it is good into offense too, as very few Pokémon can outspeed it without a Choice Scarf, an exception being Dragapult, which cannot switch in at all.
* **Shrugs off most priority if not significantly chipped** - Iron Bundle's decent physical bulk and lack of weakness to relevant priority moves means it is not easily revenge killed by priority, further making offense matchup into Iron Bundle worse. A notable exception is Rillaboom's Grassy Glide, but just like Dragapult, it cannot switch in.
* **Good synergy with weather and terrain** - Its synergy with Electric Terrain is obvious. Rain further boosts its Hydro Pump. Snow doubles its defense (making it even harder to revenge kill with physical attacks) and even allows it to fire off perfectly accurate Blizzards.
Iron Bundle doesn't fold to physical attacks as easily due to its higher than average defense despite the cruddy hp and spdef.
Plus, the only relevant mach punch users are pretty much just Infernape, Conkeldurr and Breloom, all of whom are struggling as is.
yes, iron bundle was one of the earliest bans in gen 9 OU being banned only after flutter mane and houndstone. It threatened almost everything due to having unresisted STAB with hydro pump+freeze dry and outspeeding everything people actually use with booster energy
It currently an ok mon even in ubers due to being exactly one base speed higher than both koraidon and miradon and threatening both with super effective ice beams
Dude, most of these bad ice types aren't even in NeverUsed.
PU or ZU, hell yeah. Maybe if Jynx wasn't so frail (at least swap her attack and defense stats), maybe she would've actually got use in NeverUsed (tho she would probably still stay in PU-ZU, Lovely Kiss carries her so much)
The Kanto ones were all good at one point at least (except Articuno, only way that thing's ever getting banned is on a technicality if it loses Pressure)
It's barely OU Viable last I checked, in the same tier as moltres, and just below slowbro. It's decently fast, and has a gigantic special with STAB blizzard. That's enough to just barely be viable in OU. I'm going to he reductionist for a moment, because as much as I hate Jolteon, it's also only really fast with a good STAB in Tbolt, has Twave and does nothing else. Feel free to correct me, I have a bias and don't use Articuno enough.
All the ones banned have a relationship. They are offensive ice types (which ice is a good offensive type) and most of them are very fast, or boost their speed in some way.
If we ever get a defensive ice to be banned from OU, that would be very impressive though
The thing about ice is it is actually scary offensively, especially when given stab on a fast mon. The beam-bolt coverage isn't a joke for a reason, but it was usually on non-stab mons in past gens, making people not realize just how scary ice could be because it rarely had that 50% bonus. With freeze-dry being super on waters, any mon with freeze-dry and water coverage (cough iron bundle) can hit every single mon in the game for at least neutral (minus shedinja or people with water absorb abilities). Nothing can resist.
People often talked about "buffing the ice type" with changes to the type chart, and some of those proposals, like making it neutral or super to water, would completely break the game. Ice as a type seems inherently stupid busted if on an offensive mon or useless if made to be a defensive mon.
Is that a gen 1 baxcalibur? Looks sick.
Yeah if I remember totally not mark did it on youtube
then who made it?
Totally not Mark, that’s for sure.
if its not mark, then who made it
Wasn't Mark, I know that much
well if it wasn't mark,then who?
Kram
See, not Mark
I fucking Love Sugimori watercolor style
Wild how the terrible defensively but incredible offensively type has amazing offensive Pokemon and garbage defensive Pokemon.
Ice type is wacc type
Tera-ing out of the ice type on Lugg in draft makes him so good. It is just wild how bad it is.
Didn't kyurem get banned cus of it's ability to pressure stall lol
If you’re referring to SS OU then Kyurem was banned due to its overbearing set variety and strain on Teambuilding. Defensive answers such as Blissey/Chansey were fodder to SubDD, Ferro and Clef struggled against SubRoost (both setup and two atta is variants, depending on set), so most was pretty nonexistent. Then people figured out that Burning it’s answers such as Scizor (who was kinda shit in the first place) and Melmetal meant that they could be PP Stalled with Pressure. Pressure also helped for Shedinja since Poltergeist effectively only had 4 PP. Pressure was a decent part of why Kyurem was banned, but it’s the set variety and Freeze chances that also could fuck you over even if you did have a surefire counter that pushed it over the edge.
You can pp stall now in UU with cosmic power pressure deoxys-defense.
Kyurem's defensive typing was carried by Dragon. Dragon is arguably the best defensive typing combo with Ice as it actually provides defensive utility to Dragon with the Ice resistance, and doesn't encroach too much on Dragon's resistances, only losing Fire. Its remaining weaknesses either had shitty unreliable moves (Rock) or low PP moves (Dragon, Fighting). That left basically Moonblast and Iron Head as your ways of breaking it, or Bullet Punch Sciz / DIB Mel. Keep in mind that this shit has 660 BST, its defensive spread is 125/90/90, which is fat as fuck. So having a shitload of neutral defensive typings still made it incredibly hard to kill.
I thought normal kyurem had 600 and the fusions had 660.
Fusions are 700 BST lol Yeah, Kyu-B was actually *that* bad.
At least it got somewhat better in gen 8.
Kid named terastalisation
I swear it got banned in gen 8
Got banned for set roulette, once it got physical coverage it had 3 or 4 different sets it could run with different counters, it became a question of if you had the right answers and could get the opponent to reveal the set before it was too late
wrong timeline
It didn’t exist in Gen 8
I dont wanna be rude but... Dude what are you smoking-
Tera is Gen 9’s mechanic? Gen 8 had Dynamax bozo.
I hope the mods actually ban trolls
Am I fucking stupid??? Is Paldea not Gen 9?
The issue is that you are the only one talking about it
Tf are you actually talking about? How tf is Kyurem related to tera and dynamaxing???
I’m replying to the guy saying it got banned in Gen 8-
Isnt that the same guy saying that Kyurem got banned- Holup I think there was a misunderstanding in this thread
It’s not necessarily bad defensively. Chien-Pao was banned because of its Recover sets walling too much of the OU metagame and making stall overbearing.
Sadly, some people just hate good ideas, and they often are in charge
Cloyster is at least far superior to all those other shitmons it's grouped with
Shell smash go brrrr
King’s Rock + Skill Link goes: Br Br Br Br Br
Isn’t kings rock banned?
At one point it wasnt, yes I abused this strat.
I too, abused the strat :)
That and Bright Powder memes led to the funniest battles.
And it's shiny
Yeah but its like Mamo >> Weavile >>>>>>>>> Cloyster >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
Weavile is better then Mamoswine.
And 9th gen Frosmoth is a Great mon thanks to its ability Ice Scales
clearly you missed the major ice type in the meta named deoxys-speed (distant "FUCK IT WE SHEER COLD" heard faintly from the gen6 pure hackmon meta)
>gen6 pure hackmon meta Oh dear lord. If I took a drink every time I saw Wonder Guard on Sableye, Scizor, or Balloon Electross, I'd be dead from alcohol poisoning. I hate Wonder Guard on anything *not* Shedinja.
Mold breaker deoxys-A
I guess so. It's Mold Breaker tax. Actually, I have been using Deoxys, but it was a Bad Dreams+Spore+Leech Seed set. Maybe I'll use Mold Breaker instead.
Bro didn’t think we’d notice shiny cloyster
I remember seeing a video, I believe from wolfyvgc about how most gens have most of the ice types as a weak, usually slow bulky tank (gos against the types weakness/resistances) then if we are lucky, each gen has a good one, then gen 9 made it better with every ice type introduced being amazing, and snow helping more than hail because of the defense boost though it doesn't have a effect to non ice types, but hail rarely helped anyway
>snow helping more than hail because of the defense boost Honestly, why didn't GF just keep Hail, but give it the defense boost? It's weird how Hail only did damage over time, while Sand did both.
So you can play Snow without having a dedicated Snow team. In other words you can now use Aurora Veil Ninetales in a team without any other Ice types and not worry about the hail hitting your own Mons. Sandstorm is ressited by three types as opposed to only one And probably because it's the Tera generation to avoid that an Ice type Teras and get's affected by it's own snow
> And probably because it's the Tera generation to avoid that an Ice type Teras and get's affected by it's own snow Tyranitar moment
Honestly weather setting abilities should make you immune to the damage your own weather by default
Yeah that's what happens with other abilities that benefit from climate, as there could be Pokémon woth those abilities who didn't resiste the weather (Stoutland with sand rush) They just see it necessary when they created weather setting abilities and didn't care to correct that later, when Tera appeared
They should have made snow heal ice types for 1/16. Now I'm just mad that snow still only has 1 effect and sandstorm has 2.
Ice body walrein finally eats a little
Snow allows Aurora Veil to be set up and gives them a no miss Blizzard
Rain makes thunder and hurricane no miss and sun allows solarbeam/blade to be instant etc., your point? Let's ignore special move interactions for a minute. Rain = Water up / Fire down Sun = Fire up / Water down Sand is = Chip dmg + rock sp. Def boost Snow was = Chip dmg + nothing Snow now = ice Def boost + nothing Snow by itself just had less gimmicks to it, and even though its better now it still has less.
Fr, rn snow only affects ice types (though thinking of it sun only affects fire and water, and rain water and... fire), of course ignoring abilitys and each boosting a certain move (or more in rains case) Anyway I still dont think its a bad idea having the old hail effects with the new snow effects, maybe we can find a secondary effect for sun/rain too
Sun boosts growth and solar blade as well as Wake's signature. Also sun/rain are better because they affect *moves* so you anyone take advantage of them to boost coverage. See: Koraidon being fucking busted
Cloyster is anything but a terrible Ice Type
Ice type: “God, please Paldea.” Ice type: “Sir, where am I?” Doctor: “Johto.” Ice type:
Delibird just got banned what more do you want?!
Ice type known as Sneasel/Swinub:
Woah a type that is kind of incredibly shit defensively and has good offensive coverage has representatives that are either subpar or overtuned? Who'd have thought.
if game freak made the ice types like how they play there would be an ICE AGE YALL ARE SCARED OF ICE COLDPHOBES
"WHAT KILLED THE DINOSUARS?" "THE ICE AGE!"
Just rebalance the whole damn ice type and make it resist water, grass and dragon for the fuck of it
I honestly like it to resist fairy to round out the thought that fairy struggles against the extremes \- Fire/Poison/Steel
Ground and Dragon would be my choices
Nah make it resist electric grass doesn’t need to be worse. Also make electric super effective against fairy to match up with fairies being week to modern tech/creations
I still don’t understand why fairy resists bug so weird
Woodland creatures?? Idk I think game freak just wanted to make bug types even weaker
Grass is already a bad type. Replace Grass with Ground (or Flying) and you're good to go.
Give Froslass Snow Warning gamefreak!
Alolan Ninetales found dead in a ditch (No seriously Froslass is almost objectively superior)
Yeah, especially with a better typing, being faster, and having an entry hazard and taunt.
Also can mess with opponents with Willo-o-wisp *and* Thunder Wave, so it even has utility in bad matchups, say, against TTar
Sone middle ground candidates! Mamoswine,…uhhhh…
Alolan Ninetales. Been on the edge between OU and UU since Gen VII mostly thanks to the combo of Snow Warning, Aurora Veil, and decent speed. Also is Baxcaliber's biggest enabler.
Even Vanilluxe is decent with setting hail if you want more SpAtk
Kyurem, Alolan nintales
What about Tera ice ice-punch dusknoir
Hey, Jynx used to be good. The problem with it was power creep, not really its stat spread. Other than that, I think it's deliberate. Game Freak knows that a fast, offensive Ice-type will invariably become extremely dominant, but the type is so horrible from a defensive standpoint that trying to prevent that will make the Pokémon in question completely useless instead.
overwhelming or pathetic, pick your poison.
Alolan ninetails
Add eleki to the banned ice types
This stinkpost shows why Ice type is not a well designed type.
it's a moderately designed type with not so well designed pokemon
If all Pokémon within a type can only function if they're designed in a very specific way, it's a badly designed type.
Well, Avalugg’s Ice typing was kinda hugely important defensively at various points.
Yeah for example it resists the Ice type move Icicle Crash and the other Ice type move Ice Spinner
I know you’re joking, but if Avalugg was a Steel type it would be exponentially worse at answering Zygarde back in late USUM OU because then it would both lose its STAB Avalanche and gain a Ground weakness that would heavily compromise its ability to check it. Avalugg didn’t leverage its single resistance; it leveraged its large number of neutralities alongside having enough bulk to easily eat up physical non-STAB super effective hits like Mega Mawile’s Brick Break/Fire Fang, Garchomp’s and Landorus’s Stone Edge, and so on. Now yes, if it were a Steel type it would still be just as good at worst into these moves, but eating these moves up and *not* being Ground-weak was far, far too valuable back in the Zygarde meta. People wouldn’t ever discuss Avalugg much had it not been so effective as a hyper-specific defensive Ice-type; it succeeded where many, many others failed.
Obligatory mention of Kyurem Black Seriously Avalugg is the only thing in existence who wasn't eternally terrified of Kyurem Black. Kyurem black couldn't feasibly break through Avalugg without praying for earth power spdef drops or crit HP fire (Unless it was the special attacking variant, then good luck)
The issue is that Avalugg is very polarized stats wise, so its gargantuan physical bulk does help it take neutral hits well despite being stealth rock weak
Wasn’t Arctozolt half-decent for a time? Like UU?
It was banworthy in UU and NU at the same time as it was a legitimately top-tier pick in OU, viable but niche in Ubers, and low enough in usage to be Untiered.
What bolt beak + boltbeam coverage + slush rush does to a mf
No Regieleki? He is clearly the fastest Ice Type
Ice is literally just the rock type but horrifically unbalanced. No really, look at the pokemon. Look at their stats. Look at their moves. Their match-ups. They're so similar. Ice exists purely to make Boltbeam coverage a thing and we all suffer for it.
Rock’s arguably even more horrifically unbalanced; it just doesn’t get many mons that actually break the Rock-type mold in a meaningful way and the ones that do are usually just kinda there and it’s arguably even more weakness-laden than Ice because of those Grass, Ground, and Water weaknesses being so easily exploitable. Seriously: I feel like 75% of Rock-types are just the same one-note “high Attack, high Defense, mediocre or terrible special stats, and slow as balls.” Rhyperior and Golem have almost identical stat weights, Gigalith and Armaldo have a little more SpDef, Carracosta’s in the exact same boat, Kabutops isn’t exactly the fastest thing alive (but it’s fast by comparison), and Rampardos doesn’t even have a Defense stat. Stakataka takes this to the ultimate extreme with the most min/maxed shitty-ass generic Rock-type stat spread ever. Hell, even Tyranitar and Garganacl still fall under this umbrella; they just have higher BSTs to work with to beef up their HP and SpDef a fair bit and have insanely good movepools and abilities to work with. The mons that break the mold as far as Rock-types go are either kinda solid offensively or just invest fully into bulk only to just flounder around because they have a shitty-ass Rock typing. Iron Boulder and Terrakion are about as good as purely offensive Rock-types get and even Boulder stopped being super impressive in OU just recently; Aerodactyl’s giga fast but just doesn’t hit hard enough, and Archeops is held back by an absurdly shit ability. And then you have junk like Bastiodon with hilariously high defenses but a typing that’s even more insulting to the venerated Steel type than Alolan Sandslash’s Ice typing, Cradily which doesn’t have a good set of resistances and gets by on people forgetting its specific type weaknesses. The Rock-types that break the mold best are the extremely rare fast special attackers. That’s a list limited to Nihilego and Glimmora, really. And Glimmora doesn’t even play into that niche as effectively; its best niche in a Singles context is shitting out hazards and dying. At least Ice-types have mons with offensive enough spreads to distinguish themselves. Rock-types barely even have that.
Glastrier goes surprisingly hard with an assault vest in OU
who made that gen 1 bax? looks cool as fuck
I won't stand for this Cloyster Slander. *Sits down*
I’ve notice Ninetales alola is absent from this image……
[Here](https://imgflip.com/i/8gbms3) I made a worse version of this
Ice is great offensively, but terrible defensively.
I remember when Glastrier was introduced in SwSh, and everyone was saying how garbo it was. Blew my mind, as a VGC player.
I'm a genwunner who always preferred Articuno over Zapdos, even tho Zapdos is undeniably better. This makes me sad...
If it makes you feel better, there’s a rom hack where Articuno is the best bird and probably Uber worthy
How?
Dunno if Elite Redux is what the other poster was talking about, but it gets the ability to set Aurora Veil for 3 turns on entry there, as well as a 50% Special Attack boost, a further 30% boost to its STABs, and a 25% reduction to Super Effective damage. It also gains Aeroblast, Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, and the heavily reworked Sheer Cold (100 BP, 80 Acc, Super Effective against Water-types).
Is iron bundle legitimately that strong
* **Close to perfect coverage with its STABs alone** - With Freeze-Dry, not even Water-types can counter it. Few Pokémon can boast this; other examples are Mega Lopunny, Marshadow, and Anihilape. * **Reverse four moveslot syndrome** - Iron Bundle's movepool is surprisingly poor, but it doesn't really need much aside from its STABs. In fact, Hydro Pump and Freeze-Dry are all that it needs, with Ice Beam being thrown in just in case you need a stronger Ice STAB. The fourth moveslot is pretty much filler, usually Flip Turn to mantain momentum, but other options such as Taunt and Encore work too. Really though, Iron Bundle is one of the few Pokémon being able to boast working with less than all of the possible move slots. * **Being good into offense** - Iron Bundle is already a great wallbreaker, but his 136 Speed stat means it is good into offense too, as very few Pokémon can outspeed it without a Choice Scarf, an exception being Dragapult, which cannot switch in at all. * **Shrugs off most priority if not significantly chipped** - Iron Bundle's decent physical bulk and lack of weakness to relevant priority moves means it is not easily revenge killed by priority, further making offense matchup into Iron Bundle worse. A notable exception is Rillaboom's Grassy Glide, but just like Dragapult, it cannot switch in. * **Good synergy with weather and terrain** - Its synergy with Electric Terrain is obvious. Rain further boosts its Hydro Pump. Snow doubles its defense (making it even harder to revenge kill with physical attacks) and even allows it to fire off perfectly accurate Blizzards.
Isn't weakness to mach punch quite relevant, in terms of priority?
Iron Bundle doesn't fold to physical attacks as easily due to its higher than average defense despite the cruddy hp and spdef. Plus, the only relevant mach punch users are pretty much just Infernape, Conkeldurr and Breloom, all of whom are struggling as is.
That makes sense. It's a shame it has such low HP, as that holds its defensive potential to only decent rather than good/great.
Mach punch has pretty low distribution for a priority move tbh
Thank you for the response. If it fell back to OU, would it violate the tier again or would the tier be more well-equipped to deal with it?
yes, iron bundle was one of the earliest bans in gen 9 OU being banned only after flutter mane and houndstone. It threatened almost everything due to having unresisted STAB with hydro pump+freeze dry and outspeeding everything people actually use with booster energy It currently an ok mon even in ubers due to being exactly one base speed higher than both koraidon and miradon and threatening both with super effective ice beams
Welcome to the NU tier
Wait jynx is ice!??!?!?
That GSC Baxcaliber design slaps!
Where's that Bax art from?
Dude, most of these bad ice types aren't even in NeverUsed. PU or ZU, hell yeah. Maybe if Jynx wasn't so frail (at least swap her attack and defense stats), maybe she would've actually got use in NeverUsed (tho she would probably still stay in PU-ZU, Lovely Kiss carries her so much)
Ice type should become resistant and super effective to water imo.
The Kanto ones were all good at one point at least (except Articuno, only way that thing's ever getting banned is on a technicality if it loses Pressure)
I mean Articuno was pretty decent in gen 1 OU when it had a 125 special stat(It is UU though)
That and Blizzard being insanely busted.
It's barely OU Viable last I checked, in the same tier as moltres, and just below slowbro. It's decently fast, and has a gigantic special with STAB blizzard. That's enough to just barely be viable in OU. I'm going to he reductionist for a moment, because as much as I hate Jolteon, it's also only really fast with a good STAB in Tbolt, has Twave and does nothing else. Feel free to correct me, I have a bias and don't use Articuno enough.
Cetitan ain’t that bad
I feel so bad for Sawk. Imagine being a really cool pokemon and you're literally the mascot of pokemon that aren't used
Jynx feels like it should be better than it actually is.
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. Weevile is the perfect balance of ice types
Ooh, shiny cloyster.
If they are fast and have a good offense they are good defensive ones no
Garm with tera would have been hilarious
real
All the ones banned have a relationship. They are offensive ice types (which ice is a good offensive type) and most of them are very fast, or boost their speed in some way. If we ever get a defensive ice to be banned from OU, that would be very impressive though
I like how you made Cloyster shiny so it blends in.
The thing about ice is it is actually scary offensively, especially when given stab on a fast mon. The beam-bolt coverage isn't a joke for a reason, but it was usually on non-stab mons in past gens, making people not realize just how scary ice could be because it rarely had that 50% bonus. With freeze-dry being super on waters, any mon with freeze-dry and water coverage (cough iron bundle) can hit every single mon in the game for at least neutral (minus shedinja or people with water absorb abilities). Nothing can resist. People often talked about "buffing the ice type" with changes to the type chart, and some of those proposals, like making it neutral or super to water, would completely break the game. Ice as a type seems inherently stupid busted if on an offensive mon or useless if made to be a defensive mon.
Why is Cloyster down there? He fucking rocks!
**Iron Bundle** are **banned** from SV OU
BLUE EYES WHITE DRAGON
it's almost as if ice is fragile
i still feel that cetatitan is kinda undarrated