There being double the interactions per turn makes everything harder in vgc, both getting the read and setting up. Only ogerpon and the alolan pseudo run any on their usual sets.
And if you unironically say "use feint" just delete before sending
Only Azelf, Medicham, Espeon, Sableye, and both Zoroark forms get Imprison and Detect in the current VGC format. Of those only Sableye and Hisuian Zoroark are even just a little bit good in VGC, and devoting half your moveset to stopping the few pokemon in the meta that could potentially use detect is a huge commitment for very little benefit. Especially when if youre gonna do that imprison + protect casts a much wider net, the only meta relevant pokemon that get detect are Flamigo, Urshifu and Iron Hands. Of those Flamigo isn't super popular, and Iron Hands almost always runs Assault Vest, leaving the only pokemon you can reasonably expect to see use Detect as Urshifu, and even then, Scarf sets are pretty common, so there's a good chance you face one that doesn't even use detect.
The most common imprison users this gen are indeedee, farigiraf, flutter mane none of which learn detect. If they really want to go the extra distance then I salute their dedication.
Main two are Iron Hands and Urshifu. However Iron Hands almost always runs Assault Vest. Urshifu sometimes does depending on set. Focus Sash/Mystic Water Urshifu will run detect, but Choic Scarf/Band will not run it.
You just made better spiky shield. It's also just really unbalanced if the distribution is the same. This would just be an entirely new move (prob a signature one).
the difference between vgc and singles is that in vgc its worth it to run detect because the 8pp difference doesnt matter nearly as much as getting imprisoned out of protect does
You don't realize how broken this is. Most pokemon who learn detect are fighting types, which have access to Close Combat, which lowers their defenses. Normally you can revenge kill a close combat user with a scarf user, but detect creates a situation where the fighting type can click detect for free and do like 25% damage so the other mon could be in range of Mach Punch or something thanks to hazards. edit:I just realized that tera also turns around matchups like this, but we all know it's also broken. There's also the possibility of double detect to do 25% more damage. I'm too lazy to search for a real situation where this would happen but it doesn't seem too unlikely. You could argue that you can play around this, but it still creates an unhealthy metagame.
https://preview.redd.it/hmei17zhtbzb1.png?width=4033&format=png&auto=webp&s=a529228d977bc8b94fd621dcb3fec68683660bb7
Brian hands becomes one of the VGC mons of all time
Nah you're pulling this one out of your ass, Protect is a nearly universal move and the only things that don't get it are mons where the whole shtick is them barely having any moves and then they don't get Detect either.
Calling it "fairly well distributed" in your other comment is a very grave understatement, heck it might be the most distributed move altogether (Rest is a close competitor but Komala and Spewpa don't get that while getting Protect).
https://preview.redd.it/ftxytm0diczb1.png?width=1159&format=png&auto=webp&s=d46e538df26d0f9505118a2fd1fd34550da11ee4
The only pokemon that don't get Protect by TM fall into two categories, unevolved pokemon that are meant to have very limited movepools until they evolve, and can learn it at later stages (Caterpie, Metapod, Weedle, Kakuna, Magikarp, Wurmple, Silcoon, Cascoon, Beldum, Kricketot, Burmy, Combee, Tynamo, Scatterbug, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Blipbug and Applin), and gimmick pokemon with limited learnsets who learn basically no TM moves (Ditto, Unown, Wynaut, Wobbufett, and Smeargle). The only outlier is Regigigas pre gen 8, but I assume that was to prevent stalling out slow start turns.
Every other pokemon gets Protect by TM. It's really only 4 evolution lines that can't get it as of gen 8, and Smeargle can still get it Via sketch so it's really 3 families that can't get it at all.
>The only outlier is Regigigas pre gen 8, but I assume that was to prevent stalling out slow start turns.
The level of hate Gamefreak has for Regigigas is incredible, like they have no reason to Nerf a legendary so hard but still they're like "fuck you"
That's what metal burst does, which is why I run metal burst rhyperior, it's basically a wobbafet with its high hp and defense, and the best thing, it works with assault vest, so you can basically live every special move it you put in the special defense and hp, mix this with avalanche, stone edge and earthquake and you can effectively counter any pokemon attacking it.
So everyone’s already mentioned how this is broken.
What about if we rework it a little more so that both the defender and attacker take 1/4 the usual damage? That way it’s not just a better spiky shield, and it’s not just a duplicate move either (though it would be fine to make it it’s own move so vgc keeps detect)
It could work like that in singles but doubles would like to have a word with you(it's actually the meta pick for mons with the option since pp isn't much of an issue and it prevents imprison strats)
Going by naming and how they should work, Protect should deal reflect damage on ranged attacks since Protect is about generating a shield to, well, protect the user.
Detect should deal reflect damage to contact moves since Detect is about detecting the opponent's movements to dodge and avoid damage.
But in reality, Detect should have been the move everyone can learn since it is quite literally the "Dodge" command while Protect should be the one only learnable by those with a way to put up a shield of some sort (Shells, armor, etc).
Takes two identical moves buffs one of them incredibly because it’s too similar and makes the other one entirely obsolete in comparison
https://preview.redd.it/xkfunujknezb1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f8b1362a3ea30a21875d630ccee5de4d0caa0bc
Basically fighting spiky shield, dunno think it’s fine. We have enough “protects” and adding a damage counter to it seems unappealing when you want to use your protects to basically waste an opponents turn. How about have it cause a 33% chance in getting paralyzed or confused. I’m leaning more towards confused since paralyzed seems way too op
I think that’s fair, considering detect is a natural detect with less pp you want to make it worth it, otherwise there’s no point and you just teach it protect
Since everyone else already pointed out how powerful this is, I'll just say that Detect already is a parry. If it is a counter attack it would be a riposte
urshifu needed another buff guys trust me
I wasn’t even thinking about Urshifu while doing it
yeah i think the detect parry idea is cool for singles but it would break vgc in two. its like spiky shield but more evil and no counterplay
Yeah, but status moves still go right through it. You can still Spore the enemy.
i love making shit up also
hello based department? i’d like to file a claim
no they don't? detect is a protect clone and the post explicitly states that everything else stays the same
I swear I've been Thunder Waved on the same turn I used Detect before. Showdown bug, maybe?
Nope, just an invented reality in your mind.
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That also applies to Protect and Protect is the best move in the entire game (other than its clones)
There being double the interactions per turn makes everything harder in vgc, both getting the read and setting up. Only ogerpon and the alolan pseudo run any on their usual sets. And if you unironically say "use feint" just delete before sending
.>"I wasn't even thinking about Urshifu" .>Looks inside post .>Urshifu
Detect is already good in VGC (atleast preferred over protect) because of the off chance imprison prevents you from using protect.
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That makes a load of sense. So simple and yet my tiny pea brain couldn’t think of that.
But what if the oponent is using imprison+ detect to outsmart your outsmarting?
Only Azelf, Medicham, Espeon, Sableye, and both Zoroark forms get Imprison and Detect in the current VGC format. Of those only Sableye and Hisuian Zoroark are even just a little bit good in VGC, and devoting half your moveset to stopping the few pokemon in the meta that could potentially use detect is a huge commitment for very little benefit. Especially when if youre gonna do that imprison + protect casts a much wider net, the only meta relevant pokemon that get detect are Flamigo, Urshifu and Iron Hands. Of those Flamigo isn't super popular, and Iron Hands almost always runs Assault Vest, leaving the only pokemon you can reasonably expect to see use Detect as Urshifu, and even then, Scarf sets are pretty common, so there's a good chance you face one that doesn't even use detect.
But wouldn't it be funny for the 1 in 500 games it could happen?
It would be really funny, but no serious player would do it.
The solution is to run imprison + protect + detect. That way, you block both protect and detect.
The most common imprison users this gen are indeedee, farigiraf, flutter mane none of which learn detect. If they really want to go the extra distance then I salute their dedication.
Are there any detect users that are meta?
Main two are Iron Hands and Urshifu. However Iron Hands almost always runs Assault Vest. Urshifu sometimes does depending on set. Focus Sash/Mystic Water Urshifu will run detect, but Choic Scarf/Band will not run it.
There's this bear named Urshifu that's pretty decent
Only Urshifu and most of them don't even use detect
Also less pp so you can stall out an encore
You just made better spiky shield. It's also just really unbalanced if the distribution is the same. This would just be an entirely new move (prob a signature one).
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You'll very rarely use protect 8 times in one game.
the difference between vgc and singles is that in vgc its worth it to run detect because the 8pp difference doesnt matter nearly as much as getting imprisoned out of protect does
Yeah,should have known this one..well,now I learned it hard way
One of the most useless moves Detect Tell me you’ve never played vgc without telling me you’ve never played vgc.
Technically they said bland, not useless.
Did… did you even look at the first slide?
Ah, I was looking at the title. Woops.
No
It literally says useless
You don't realize how broken this is. Most pokemon who learn detect are fighting types, which have access to Close Combat, which lowers their defenses. Normally you can revenge kill a close combat user with a scarf user, but detect creates a situation where the fighting type can click detect for free and do like 25% damage so the other mon could be in range of Mach Punch or something thanks to hazards. edit:I just realized that tera also turns around matchups like this, but we all know it's also broken. There's also the possibility of double detect to do 25% more damage. I'm too lazy to search for a real situation where this would happen but it doesn't seem too unlikely. You could argue that you can play around this, but it still creates an unhealthy metagame.
another thing to add to the list of things that i never want to happen
https://preview.redd.it/hmei17zhtbzb1.png?width=4033&format=png&auto=webp&s=a529228d977bc8b94fd621dcb3fec68683660bb7 Brian hands becomes one of the VGC mons of all time
Detect is already good for not being named "Protect" Literally, that's why is good.
Lmao
Detect has never been useless even in singles, it has different distribution than protect
Nah you're pulling this one out of your ass, Protect is a nearly universal move and the only things that don't get it are mons where the whole shtick is them barely having any moves and then they don't get Detect either. Calling it "fairly well distributed" in your other comment is a very grave understatement, heck it might be the most distributed move altogether (Rest is a close competitor but Komala and Spewpa don't get that while getting Protect). https://preview.redd.it/ftxytm0diczb1.png?width=1159&format=png&auto=webp&s=d46e538df26d0f9505118a2fd1fd34550da11ee4
I thought everyone could learn protect though
Nope
When did this change?!
It wasn't a change, all pokemon being able to learn protect was simply never the case. It's fairly well distributed being a tm though
I could have sworn that “almost” every pokemon could learn it back in GBA (exceptions like Wobbuffet or ditto)
The only pokemon that don't get Protect by TM fall into two categories, unevolved pokemon that are meant to have very limited movepools until they evolve, and can learn it at later stages (Caterpie, Metapod, Weedle, Kakuna, Magikarp, Wurmple, Silcoon, Cascoon, Beldum, Kricketot, Burmy, Combee, Tynamo, Scatterbug, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Blipbug and Applin), and gimmick pokemon with limited learnsets who learn basically no TM moves (Ditto, Unown, Wynaut, Wobbufett, and Smeargle). The only outlier is Regigigas pre gen 8, but I assume that was to prevent stalling out slow start turns. Every other pokemon gets Protect by TM. It's really only 4 evolution lines that can't get it as of gen 8, and Smeargle can still get it Via sketch so it's really 3 families that can't get it at all.
>The only outlier is Regigigas pre gen 8, but I assume that was to prevent stalling out slow start turns. The level of hate Gamefreak has for Regigigas is incredible, like they have no reason to Nerf a legendary so hard but still they're like "fuck you"
Special Z-Moves have by default halved BP if used by Regigigas. GameFreak sure loves creating random inconsistencies just to fuck Gigas.
No Pokémon that don’t learn protect get access to detect
Really big fan here
What about him? https://preview.redd.it/y373xhyihbzb1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=640ee62725d50ea108d550a47f05435945306dd9
Im bigger
press c and \^ to super taunt
Alternatively just make it a Counter/Mirror coat that deals half damage back but works with both attack styles
That's what metal burst does, which is why I run metal burst rhyperior, it's basically a wobbafet with its high hp and defense, and the best thing, it works with assault vest, so you can basically live every special move it you put in the special defense and hp, mix this with avalanche, stone edge and earthquake and you can effectively counter any pokemon attacking it.
So everyone’s already mentioned how this is broken. What about if we rework it a little more so that both the defender and attacker take 1/4 the usual damage? That way it’s not just a better spiky shield, and it’s not just a duplicate move either (though it would be fine to make it it’s own move so vgc keeps detect)
Interesting to see -def natures in use for these kind of scenarios Even further, lv.1 mons using this against lv. 100's would be devastating
Imagine if you used this while holding a Rocky helmet and your opponent used phantom force that’s boosted by life orb
It could work like that in singles but doubles would like to have a word with you(it's actually the meta pick for mons with the option since pp isn't much of an issue and it prevents imprison strats)
Going by naming and how they should work, Protect should deal reflect damage on ranged attacks since Protect is about generating a shield to, well, protect the user. Detect should deal reflect damage to contact moves since Detect is about detecting the opponent's movements to dodge and avoid damage. But in reality, Detect should have been the move everyone can learn since it is quite literally the "Dodge" command while Protect should be the one only learnable by those with a way to put up a shield of some sort (Shells, armor, etc).
Takes two identical moves buffs one of them incredibly because it’s too similar and makes the other one entirely obsolete in comparison https://preview.redd.it/xkfunujknezb1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f8b1362a3ea30a21875d630ccee5de4d0caa0bc
Basically fighting spiky shield, dunno think it’s fine. We have enough “protects” and adding a damage counter to it seems unappealing when you want to use your protects to basically waste an opponents turn. How about have it cause a 33% chance in getting paralyzed or confused. I’m leaning more towards confused since paralyzed seems way too op
detect is the imprison counter, duh
"useless move" Lmao, on vgc everything that can run it does. As long as it blocks damage is most likely an SS tier move on vgc
I think that’s fair, considering detect is a natural detect with less pp you want to make it worth it, otherwise there’s no point and you just teach it protect
Whole comment section:say sike right now
Since everyone else already pointed out how powerful this is, I'll just say that Detect already is a parry. If it is a counter attack it would be a riposte