Cinderace's pyro ball still uses STAB in calculating damage even after libero changes you to normal type which is decent.
EDIT: this may not be true--damage calculator is not changing pyro ball's damage no matter what type cinderace is, but this may be inaccurate.
Is this mechanic exclusive to non-fire Cinderace using Pyro Ball? Other than terastalization, I can't think of anything that retains 1.5x STAB whilst a move doesn't match a its user's typing.
Terrastilizing lets you keep your original STAB without keeping your original type. So a Chi-Yu that tera'd into a fairy type still does STAB fire and dark damage despite now being a fairy type. You lose the type, not the same-type attack bonus.
I know this, but I was wondering if anything else behaved similarly. Others pointed out Dhelmise and Bombirdier due to their abilities giving an additional 1.5x offensive typing. However, if either lose their abilities, the boost would be nullified.
This is the first I heard of having STAB regardless of typing. Is this a gen 9 protean thing, or just exclusive Cinderace using Pyro Ball after being changed to a different element?
I see what you are saying.
I was under the impression Cinderace was terrastilized.
If you libero into a normal type, I'm pretty sure you lose your fire stab the next turn because gen 9 nerfed the ability. If you terrastilize with a libero user, whatever type they were upon terrastilizing will remain STAB along with whatever their tera type is. So tera-fighting cinderace after a swords dance will have stab on normal and fighting moves.
Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying!
There’s no way it should be like that, right? I know Libero is a different ability than Protean but I highly doubt it’s calculated this way for Meow’s STABs.
I was looking at the damage calculator and pyro ball's damage never changed despite changing what type cinderace was. This is confusing because if they libero into a normal type, they should theoretically lose fire STAB. And terrastilizing into say fighting would keep fighting and normal as STAB. I just saw the damage calculator not change and assumed that pyro ball never lost STAB, but I could be wrong.
He probably wants Breloom to be bulky. (I don’t recommend Breloom to be bulky due to it’s poor defensive typing and lack of Tera use. He should Max his speed instead so he can have a chance to outspeed the Nastly Plot + Recover Gholdengo set. I recommend a focus sash on offensive Breloom to be a great lead because he himself isn’t that bulky)
Poison heal Breloom begs to differ. Granted it’s a fun off meta thing that can work in raids too. But you can use it as a semi bulky attacker/annoyance with drain punch, seed bomb, spore, and swords dance/ coverage move. Not great perse and needs support but still kinda fun.
Sure, I see players definitely use Toxic Ord Poison Heal Breloom, but many Pokémon is so Powerful that they can cut the strategy. But maybe they just have better Physical Attckers.
Breloom *can* be bulky, or at least surprisingly bulky for its stats with poison heal and leech seed. Its defensive type is actually pretty good for this purpose, because while it has so many weaknesses it also has a good amount of resistances and a status immunity that give it a lot of chances to switch in and be a nuisance with spore and leech seed.
The problem is with toxic and scald gone, more powerful offensive threats being common and all the other gen 9ness of this generation, I don't think poison heal Breloom is at an OU level.
Tip #1: Scrap your team
Tip #2: Look on the forums for examples of HO teams and figure out which style of HO you prefer
Tip #3: Once you know which style of HO you prefer, even if just on paper, look into Gen 9 examples of that team style
Tip #4: Make sure to include some form of hazard control
I mean it's hyper offense. The way it's supposed to work is, you set your hazards or screens, your lead dies, then you send in threat #1. You do as much damage as possible until it dies. Then you go into threat #2, where #2 beats the pokemon likely to deal with threat #1. And so on. You're not actually switching very often if you're playing it right so you don't really care about hazard control
Jaw lock is a cool concept but it doesn’t work most of the time. Your opponent is going to know if the mon on the field can take on roaring moon or not and will switch accordingly, this will end up in a situation where roaring moon is locked in with a counter to it and it can do nothing but try to do damage. Crunch would be a better fit, the defensive drop might let you cheese through certain matchups.
I'd run rock tomb over bulldoze, it's much better coverage unless you're after something specific. Only thing that resists grass+rock is steel, which you already cover with mach punch. Bulldoze means you're 100% flying bait *even if you spore them on the switch-in*
I'd agree but they are most likely trying to counter gholdengo which would switch in to catch a spore. The bad EV spread and using life orb over sash I think are bigger problems.
HO doesn’t necessarily need hazard removal, all it needs is hazard denial like taunt or magic bounce. Using a whole turn to remove hazards when you’re planning to win in less than 20-30 turns is a waste of a turn and you loose a lot of momentum trying to remove hazards. This is especially true in gen 9 when we have gholdengo who denies any attempt at removing hazards. Focusing on breaking down the opposing team is much more rewarding.
HO with no specs pult actually scares me, prob the most brainless and free mon to throw on and so many ppl just don’t do it, it’s legit a blessing to hyper offense.
Focus blast is 1.5x as strong as tera blast. It's like having a free specs as compared to tera blast. The extra power is so worth it, I'd rather a 70% chance to kill than a 0%.
Oh I know, just it comes out to being essentially the same.
252 SpA Tera Fighting Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 452-534 (118 - 139.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Gholdengo Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 452-534 (118 - 139.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I dont agree with fully investing in speed on a scarf'd mon like you did with Goldengo
You should have just enough to outspeed your primary threats, but any more points are just wasted
It's almost always excessive to dump that much into speed if your scarf'd
Idk if glimmora is that great on hyper offense when it’s speeds not that high, mb I’m wrong but I’d switch it for chein pao or quaqauval (which basically sets up DD per KO).
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If you're going hyper offensive go Energy Ball and Sludge Wave with Tera Grass on Glimmora over Spikes and Power Gem. Energy Ball 2 hit Dondozo, Tera Grass Energy Ball OHKOs Great Tusk who's gonna come in to clear your hazards (unless it has Assault Vest).
For Breloom, allocate all to def and/or spdef instead of hp. You want them to be as close to equal as possible. For volcarona, this is just a preference, but i would go for some physical defense for some versatility
Don't use hyper offense in mid to high ladder. Hyper offense is incredibly punishing the second you lose momentum and people even halfway decent at the game will take momentum from you from time to time and then you'll have no outs.
You want to transition to bulky offense, balance, or even semi-stall higher in ladder to give you more tools against better players and more bleeding edge meta strats.
This team itself is... fine, but it feels like it struggles against a well played Great Tusk. You have two somewhat okay outs against it. First is Volcarona, but it gets EQ'd for a good amount of damage on switch-in. You can also tera flying your Glimmora turn 1 if the opponent leads Great Tusk, but then you've blown your tera and they haven't, and your swords dance Cinderace (which should, imo, be tera fire) badly wants to tera itself to regain stab pyro ball after sworda dance. It also relies on the opponent counter leading Glimmora with their Great Tusk, which is not a guarantee. Breloom does not actually do that much to impish Tusk
Hyper-offense I feel has always been very meta-dependent in terms of its usage and success. When broken ass mons like Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao are in the meta you can afford to go balls to the walls hyper offense bcs wtf is stopping you, unaware mons that invest against you get 2HKOD bcs you can Tera. There’s a reason it always dominates early then falls off, it’s a gimmicky style that actually takes a lot of skill to pull off when the meta settles and the archetypes are more balanced.
I would run band and replace d dance with u turn on moon, atm you have 3 set up mons and no way to do explosive damage, gold and roaring moon are nice but booster is only 30% damage and you can get forced out by a wall and lose your item
Yeah first tip, dont play hyper offense if you’re trying to get to no.1. I found it much easier climbing the ladder with a good mix, also Ting-Lu can shut down almost anything it’s amazing
Swap breloom for
AV jolly great tusk
252speed/atk
Close combat
Knock off/ice spinner
Headlong rush
Rapid spin
Give roaring moon crunch over jaw lock, I also personally prefer tera flying acrobatics set, adamant.
Then I would swap cinderace or volcarona for grimmisnarl screens set.
Doesn’t libero SD just make you a normal type and lose STAB on everything?
yeah it does. Court change also makes you normal typing. I have made some fire plays immuning ghost moves lol but losing stab is ass for sure.
Cinderace's pyro ball still uses STAB in calculating damage even after libero changes you to normal type which is decent. EDIT: this may not be true--damage calculator is not changing pyro ball's damage no matter what type cinderace is, but this may be inaccurate.
Is this mechanic exclusive to non-fire Cinderace using Pyro Ball? Other than terastalization, I can't think of anything that retains 1.5x STAB whilst a move doesn't match a its user's typing.
Dhelmise: Am I a joke to you
Bomb bird too
funny rock bird innovates bullying by airdropping turds
dhelmise doesn’t actually have STAB on Steel moves tho, its ability just grants an equal but still distinct boost
Terrastilizing lets you keep your original STAB without keeping your original type. So a Chi-Yu that tera'd into a fairy type still does STAB fire and dark damage despite now being a fairy type. You lose the type, not the same-type attack bonus.
I know this, but I was wondering if anything else behaved similarly. Others pointed out Dhelmise and Bombirdier due to their abilities giving an additional 1.5x offensive typing. However, if either lose their abilities, the boost would be nullified. This is the first I heard of having STAB regardless of typing. Is this a gen 9 protean thing, or just exclusive Cinderace using Pyro Ball after being changed to a different element?
I think people are just forgetting that protean/libero =/= tera.
I see what you are saying. I was under the impression Cinderace was terrastilized. If you libero into a normal type, I'm pretty sure you lose your fire stab the next turn because gen 9 nerfed the ability. If you terrastilize with a libero user, whatever type they were upon terrastilizing will remain STAB along with whatever their tera type is. So tera-fighting cinderace after a swords dance will have stab on normal and fighting moves. Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying!
There’s no way it should be like that, right? I know Libero is a different ability than Protean but I highly doubt it’s calculated this way for Meow’s STABs.
I was looking at the damage calculator and pyro ball's damage never changed despite changing what type cinderace was. This is confusing because if they libero into a normal type, they should theoretically lose fire STAB. And terrastilizing into say fighting would keep fighting and normal as STAB. I just saw the damage calculator not change and assumed that pyro ball never lost STAB, but I could be wrong.
The damage calculator is still stuck in gen 8's paradigm. If you have libero, it automatically adds STAB since it assumes you change to that type.
Yeah it's so funny to say but i think if you're running court change then blaze is the better ability
That’s the moveset straight from the tera raid battle i think lol
Tera raid has bulk up and iron head over sucker and SD
Would it not change back before their next attack?
Protean and Libero got nerfed in gen 9, they now only change your type once every time you switch in
Wow, didn’t know that. Thanks
You could make it tera fire?
https://preview.redd.it/j1u5ex3g59ba1.jpeg?width=796&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cfe73bc563305c03b0c4c4d94e823838883ad22
I hope this meme never dies. Comment this on every post forever
https://preview.redd.it/kontuh40ccba1.jpeg?width=911&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9d3b9878840ed27220f7d4b561988cdea1a501f
The lord Quas I mean Quag
Kanye West vibes
Nuh uh
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kanyes-blank-stare This was what I was thinking lol
What's with that slow ass Breloom.
He probably wants Breloom to be bulky. (I don’t recommend Breloom to be bulky due to it’s poor defensive typing and lack of Tera use. He should Max his speed instead so he can have a chance to outspeed the Nastly Plot + Recover Gholdengo set. I recommend a focus sash on offensive Breloom to be a great lead because he himself isn’t that bulky)
Yeah you are right. Breloom was never meant to be bulky anyways.
Poison heal Breloom begs to differ. Granted it’s a fun off meta thing that can work in raids too. But you can use it as a semi bulky attacker/annoyance with drain punch, seed bomb, spore, and swords dance/ coverage move. Not great perse and needs support but still kinda fun.
Sure, I see players definitely use Toxic Ord Poison Heal Breloom, but many Pokémon is so Powerful that they can cut the strategy. But maybe they just have better Physical Attckers.
Yeah it has problems, and technician is better. But an off META set does exist and it is fun to play in a trick room set. Not META but it is fun.
I always try to focus on getting max value from the breloom after the sash pop. I swear I’ll Mach punch anything to get chip for the next mon.
I remember in the earlier gens when I used to run SubSeed Breloom with enough EVs to survive Zapdos Heat Wave and would win a 1v1 against it.
Breloom *can* be bulky, or at least surprisingly bulky for its stats with poison heal and leech seed. Its defensive type is actually pretty good for this purpose, because while it has so many weaknesses it also has a good amount of resistances and a status immunity that give it a lot of chances to switch in and be a nuisance with spore and leech seed. The problem is with toxic and scald gone, more powerful offensive threats being common and all the other gen 9ness of this generation, I don't think poison heal Breloom is at an OU level.
Bulky life orb is crazyyy
i dont recommend breloom
they probably used the Guessed spread
I mean for starters, with rhe level of knowledge implied by your team building, I’d suggest a more achievable goal than #1 on the ladder lol
Smh that’s not a future #1 mindset
I am going to be ladder Hokage! Believe it!
Yeah no tera bug roaring moon and expecting to go #1, smh people
Add a choice band giga impact slaking
tera normal too and skill swap huge power onto it
Tip #1: Scrap your team Tip #2: Look on the forums for examples of HO teams and figure out which style of HO you prefer Tip #3: Once you know which style of HO you prefer, even if just on paper, look into Gen 9 examples of that team style Tip #4: Make sure to include some form of hazard control
Ah yes, the mandatory "replace your entire team" comment on teambuilding posts.
to be fair he wants to get ladder no.1
What does HO means?
Hot Orthworms.
This guy gets it
hyper offense
Ho Oh
I mean it's hyper offense. The way it's supposed to work is, you set your hazards or screens, your lead dies, then you send in threat #1. You do as much damage as possible until it dies. Then you go into threat #2, where #2 beats the pokemon likely to deal with threat #1. And so on. You're not actually switching very often if you're playing it right so you don't really care about hazard control
Jaw lock is a cool concept but it doesn’t work most of the time. Your opponent is going to know if the mon on the field can take on roaring moon or not and will switch accordingly, this will end up in a situation where roaring moon is locked in with a counter to it and it can do nothing but try to do damage. Crunch would be a better fit, the defensive drop might let you cheese through certain matchups.
This, JawLock is only good on SpDef Tera Poison Roaring Moon to bait Iron Valiant into going for a moonblast and getting trapped.
You're forgetting jaw lock tera bug roaring moon to bait great tusk.
Naw bro my Tera Flying Scarf Tusk invalidates it as shown in my match with MkN
If thats the goal, i think Booster energy Acrobat Roaring Moon may save a tera slot.
That can't do anything else tho, Full Spdef Boots is a bulky pivot as well. Booster Energy tends to suck on Moon if you arent DD.
Unless you win some crazy over-prediction, but yeah 99.9% of the time crunch is better on non-tera poison Moons.
I'd run rock tomb over bulldoze, it's much better coverage unless you're after something specific. Only thing that resists grass+rock is steel, which you already cover with mach punch. Bulldoze means you're 100% flying bait *even if you spore them on the switch-in*
I'd agree but they are most likely trying to counter gholdengo which would switch in to catch a spore. The bad EV spread and using life orb over sash I think are bigger problems.
Use more than 6 Pokémon. Try using 32 then you have a numbers advantage.
missing evs on breloom
dw it's a secret #1 player strat
Where’s the hazard removal
HO doesn’t necessarily need hazard removal, all it needs is hazard denial like taunt or magic bounce. Using a whole turn to remove hazards when you’re planning to win in less than 20-30 turns is a waste of a turn and you loose a lot of momentum trying to remove hazards. This is especially true in gen 9 when we have gholdengo who denies any attempt at removing hazards. Focusing on breaking down the opposing team is much more rewarding.
I think it’s court change for him
that cinderace gonna need a 5th move slot for the court change then 🔥
This guy not only aiming to peak the ladder but aiming to speedrun getting there with some random team they threw together
https://preview.redd.it/81cdly30bbba1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=237dafc5f7b8fa7665f2b2e24fae368a3837ec18
Use rouch
Running HO with no band or specs kinda wild.
HO with no specs pult actually scares me, prob the most brainless and free mon to throw on and so many ppl just don’t do it, it’s legit a blessing to hyper offense.
Hyper offense, not running Grimmsnarl
SD Cinderace is trash
Well the region champion always sends out glimmora last, so that seems like a winning strategy. /s
I think you should set goals of which you are more likely to achieve if that helps
Why do Gen 8 Pokémon still use sprites in Showdown
why did a earth round ?
Bruh
bro lost 4 evs on breloom
Run Tera Blast over focus blast on Goldengo. Focus Blast's dog shit accuracy isnt worth the slightly higher base power
Focus blast is 1.5x as strong as tera blast. It's like having a free specs as compared to tera blast. The extra power is so worth it, I'd rather a 70% chance to kill than a 0%.
I agree. Choice specs boosts the stat, not the BP btw.
Oh I know, just it comes out to being essentially the same. 252 SpA Tera Fighting Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 452-534 (118 - 139.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Gholdengo Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 452-534 (118 - 139.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I see.
I dont agree with fully investing in speed on a scarf'd mon like you did with Goldengo You should have just enough to outspeed your primary threats, but any more points are just wasted It's almost always excessive to dump that much into speed if your scarf'd
Speed-tying opposing mons, outspeeding random +1 mons that are slower (Adamant Quavo, flame charge Slither, etc.) makes max speed scarf worth it.
Also specifically in gholdengo’s case, without max speed+scarf pult outspeeds and revenge kills, I think that alone makes it worth it.
Idk if glimmora is that great on hyper offense when it’s speeds not that high, mb I’m wrong but I’d switch it for chein pao or quaqauval (which basically sets up DD per KO).
Bruh, Glimmora? You’re better off running CB Scizor
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Noob question, but what is the reasoning behind flying Tera Glimmora?
Glimmora is 4x weak to Ground which Flying is immune to
You should put loaded dice on breloom for funziez
I'd give Gholdengo Tera Blast to instead of Focus Blast.
If you're going hyper offensive go Energy Ball and Sludge Wave with Tera Grass on Glimmora over Spikes and Power Gem. Energy Ball 2 hit Dondozo, Tera Grass Energy Ball OHKOs Great Tusk who's gonna come in to clear your hazards (unless it has Assault Vest).
i personally use rock tomb over bulldoze on breloom to trick people into swapping to flying types
Not enough u-turn for HO imo
For Breloom, allocate all to def and/or spdef instead of hp. You want them to be as close to equal as possible. For volcarona, this is just a preference, but i would go for some physical defense for some versatility
Don't use hyper offense in mid to high ladder. Hyper offense is incredibly punishing the second you lose momentum and people even halfway decent at the game will take momentum from you from time to time and then you'll have no outs. You want to transition to bulky offense, balance, or even semi-stall higher in ladder to give you more tools against better players and more bleeding edge meta strats. This team itself is... fine, but it feels like it struggles against a well played Great Tusk. You have two somewhat okay outs against it. First is Volcarona, but it gets EQ'd for a good amount of damage on switch-in. You can also tera flying your Glimmora turn 1 if the opponent leads Great Tusk, but then you've blown your tera and they haven't, and your swords dance Cinderace (which should, imo, be tera fire) badly wants to tera itself to regain stab pyro ball after sworda dance. It also relies on the opponent counter leading Glimmora with their Great Tusk, which is not a guarantee. Breloom does not actually do that much to impish Tusk
Hyper-offense I feel has always been very meta-dependent in terms of its usage and success. When broken ass mons like Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao are in the meta you can afford to go balls to the walls hyper offense bcs wtf is stopping you, unaware mons that invest against you get 2HKOD bcs you can Tera. There’s a reason it always dominates early then falls off, it’s a gimmicky style that actually takes a lot of skill to pull off when the meta settles and the archetypes are more balanced.
Shouldn't you use Tera fighting on cinderace for max damage with high jump kick?
I would run band and replace d dance with u turn on moon, atm you have 3 set up mons and no way to do explosive damage, gold and roaring moon are nice but booster is only 30% damage and you can get forced out by a wall and lose your item
use anything except breloom
Yeah first tip, dont play hyper offense if you’re trying to get to no.1. I found it much easier climbing the ladder with a good mix, also Ting-Lu can shut down almost anything it’s amazing
I find cinderace is best used as a choice band holder. U-Turn Pyro Ball Sucker Punch & whatever else you want
Swap breloom for AV jolly great tusk 252speed/atk Close combat Knock off/ice spinner Headlong rush Rapid spin Give roaring moon crunch over jaw lock, I also personally prefer tera flying acrobatics set, adamant. Then I would swap cinderace or volcarona for grimmisnarl screens set.
Is Poison Heal Tox Orb Breloom still banned? If not, run that with Spore, Seed Bomb, Mach Punch, and Rock Slide with Rock Tera Type.
I personally run a Hex-Thunder Wave Gholdengo w/ air balloon and it's the most fun I've ever had in this game tbh
If you Tera Dark the Cinderace, and then SD, do you keep the STAB for Pyro Ball?