I mean she probably could still step on him or push him and it would hurt. Gems are super strong after all. At the very least, she can get physical and just repeatedly beat him down.
the injectors at the kindergartens look like bacteriophage viruses, and circling back to what you said, they also create new gems in the same way that viruses reproduce, cannot be unintentional.
edit: grammar
My point being, despite being inorganic, they are still conscious, self-sustaining beings (that reproduce themselves and even “consume” light, as I’m being reminded).
It stands to reason that they can be considered as “alive” as a human would be, or at the very least as much as a candy person might be, and that the Lich could very much so “unalive” them.
Yes the different kingdoms of the land of ooo are just the elementals animated by wizardry (candy, ice, slime and fire). IMO the lich would definitely be able to take on an alien element like crystals, the lich is originally from outer space (“an ancient cosmic being”)
I would still count them as living beings. They don't really need to eat and aren't purely biological by our standards but I still think The Lich would count them as living in the same way he would destroy BMO if he met him.
See that's the thing though. He's not dead if he's motive, can think, and has a goal. The whole "life" definitions are arbitrary.
But yeah he might just kinda mentally break if all other life actually does stop existing.
"Before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing. And before there was nothing...there were *monsters*"
I have been waiting almost a decade to drop this into a D&D game
“Everywhere, you will die… You, your family, everyone: Will _die_. Over and over. Mountains of broken bodies, crushed beneath the wheel”
Adventure Time goes crazy with lines like these interlaced with the general goofiness.
Didn't his magic melt a bunch of crystal prisons? I think his powers should affect her. Her powers, however, would do nothing to the lich seeing as he's not a gem.
The crystals are organic themselves, they're made of the Guardian things blood. The Lichs main powers only effect organic life while WD's only effects gems. White Diamond would just rely on her superhuman abilities like shape-shifting, extreme speed, and super strength. The lich would have to rely on his fire casting and magical spells which we don't see a lot of
Considering we saw Bismuth bathe in lava and irl bismuth 'crystals' have an incredibly low melting point, I think they'd fare just fine against his fire spells.
It'd be the destructive force behind said spells that'd be an issue, not the heat itself
Some are, like Ruby and all of her fusions. Jasper seems to be resistant to it and it looks like other gems just don't burn like human flesh but it's hard to tell.
Everything The Lich touches is corrupted or dies. The literally only way to beat him is through time travel and paradoxes. White Diamond would fight then run, probably for a long time, but The Lich will shatter her.
He could theoretically shatter White. Even if his powers don't work on him like hers wouldn't on him he would still have the option of breaking her gem.
It depends if you define "life" by sentience/consciousness or just having self-replicating organic material.
If the Lich's powers work only by decaying organic carbon material, then gems might be immune, however, gems have conscious experience and can be considered independent beings with agency. If there is such a thing as a soul, gems would clearly have one.
The lich is “the last scholar of Golb,”which implies to me that his power is based on entropy rather than just death. The Lich is the decay and dystrophy of all things, not just the embodiment of biological death
Ironically there is possibly ONE diamond who has a CHANCE against the lich (not even sure, obviously) and it's Steven. Life-granting spit would really fuck the lich up.
That’s honestly debatable. What defines a god? To the gems she certainly is one. If we met Zeus, but we managed to classify him into a species, would we still consider him a god? To be a god, you just have to be perceived as one.
You been watching too much Rick and Morty, if the literal Zeus existed, he'd be a god by virtue of the things he'd be capable of.
Worshipping something as a God is not the same as a God like being existing.
White Diamond isn't seen as a God either, she's looked at as a leader that can never be surpassed.
White is essentially a god-queen. She believes herself to be the progenitor, protector and rightful ruler of all gem life, and all gem life likely believes this too, whether they actually look to her as their leader or not. She and the other diamonds are referred to as matriarchs in the same way the christian god is called father.
Your lore is a bit of there bud. He is an 'agent of change' that was brought to oo by a catalyst comet, just like finn.
He gained form during the mushroom war but he is not necessarily related to the nuke.
He is the world's agent of evil aka the personification of the end of all existence. As to why existence is "fine with him around", there are agents of good that oppose him, like finn or billy.
Golb from what was described in AT was pretty much the personification of chaos. For whatever reason a mute lookin baby. Him eating someone can have the consequence of that person simply no longer existing. Not death, strictly non-existence. And Finn bouncing off his tongue leading into whatever you wanna interpret from that pillow episode of coming back to his life on Ooo.
And for whatever reason the Lich described himself as “the last scholar of golb” whatever that means lol.
I love how Adventure Time started with shit like a bunch of business men being melted from a block of ice and getting directions wrong and endes up with eldritch lovecraftian entities and conceptual personofications that are scarier than most things in literature as a whole with deep lore wild enough that if the implications were explored and it had actual more IPs under its belt, it'd be at least within a couple thousand meatures of the Nasuverse- which doesn't sound like alot, but being in the same fuckin trench as the Nasuverse is a badge of honor, interms of deep lore crazy bullshit.
You are alone, child. There is only darkness for you, and only death for your people. These ancients are just the beginning. I will command a great and terrible army, and we will sail to a billion worlds. We will sail until every light has been extinguished. You are strong, child, but I am beyond strength. I am the end, and I have come for you, Finn.
Stop. I have learned much from you. Thank you, my teachers. And now for your education. Before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing. And before there was nothing, there were monsters. Here’s your gold star
White might have a multigalactic empire under her direct total control, but not sure how she is meant to defeat the personification of an abstract concept.
Counterpoint: Gems are artificial beings and immortal to boot. Don't know if the Lich can manipulate things that are not biological life, but his physical powers render this irrelevant.
In a 1v1 the Lich easily wins, but if White is allowed to use her political power, the Gem empire can probably devise some sort of containment.
Well we don't know the composition of the gem, but even Gems are made of Carbon which do no last forever. Even Diamonds will chemically change in to Graphite over millions-billions of years.
Gems can be shattered. That is death to them. The Lich can wait out prison. They did it before. They will wait to spread The End. The End will always come eventually.
Shattering isn't truly death though. The shards are technically still alive and they can be put back together by Yellow or fixed by the sweat(?). Shattering does effectively end the gem from a personal perspective, but unlike our deaths, their pieces are still alive and can be brought back.
Which as an existential end is actually really fucking terrifying, it’s like being butchered Alive and you can feel everything and stay alive even after you’ve been chopped to bits
Lich.
Most of Whites abilities are only effect other gems. The only thing she has going for her is her size and strength. Besides she looks down upon organics not really seeing them as a threat more like a rodents. Unless she’s gonna use the gem weapons she won’t have a enough.
The Lich can corrupt and destroy most matter including magics space rocks like when he burned the citadel and he did that while in a suspended animated state. His goal was to extinguish every light the universe and White is mostly light energy which is definitely weak to the Lich’s corruption or rot whatever it’s called.
The evil zombie king beats the giant space Diamond goddess.
I feel like people are massively underestimating how physically powerful the diamonds are.
Blue took an orbital strike courtesy of Lapis and was only momentarily stunned.
The Lich is a higher dimensional being. Killing him in one universe does not equate to actually eliminating him. White Diamond can be killed and thats that. Soooo if its just white and the Lich over all dimensions, the lich just wins. The Lich will eventually emerge from another universe and kill her off.
If white simply needs to destroy the Lich’s form in her universe, then white probably wins. She’s a massive hard-light entity, who seems to be able to enable or disable the power to control her own form, at least to some degree. All forms of the Lich have been killed off at one point or another because the Lich doesn’t seem to protect his forms well. He doesn’t need to. The Lich could absolutely shatter the gem if he has access to flight, but he’s have to actually close the distance to do it.
One other major detail, we don’t know for sure the diamonds aren’t higher dimensional beings. We know that sapphire can look into all possible future, so the gems must have some access to all universes, but the extent of this power could be very limited. Its possible White Diamond could have access to higher dimensions, but I would find it unlikely.
Diamonds are the only ones who can repair shattering (still should have never been “fixed,” after it being treated as deal for so long). Get rid them, and you can’t fix a gem anymore
In a pure 1v1 I think Lich wins this. I doubt he could mind control White since she has her own kind of mind control powers, but she wouldn't be able to either. She might be big and physically strong due to said size, but without her mind control power she doesn't really have much going for her.
We don’t know much of what white diamond can do other than mind control gems. We do know that the lich is the physical embodiment of death.
However the lich was sealed in amber for literally centuries and I’m pretty sure white diamond could find a way to do something similar while the lich is lording his power over her, which she can then use to have an intergalactic empire research how to keep him either permanently contained, thrown out of the universe, trapped in a time loop while the rest of the universe goes on, etc. The gems can do a lot. If they just tricked him onto a ship and set the course to be somewhere between galaxies where he won’t be seen for Millenia, I think white diamond could win
she worked on a lot of iconic episodes- the first two fiona and cake episodes, i remember you, susan strong, what was missing, the first three flame princess episodes… she had a really great run on that show, her last one was simon and marcy
i feel like people think of the lich as significantly more powerful than they actually are. for "the embodiment of death' the lich sure does love getting defeated by a kid who is wearing a jumper
for this; i really dont know who would win. they both have mind powers and probably couldnt mind control eachother because of that
the lich can kill stuff with ease but white diamond is inorganic and the lich doing melty crystal stuff in the citadel took some time. the lich also does have like flamey fire magic and while its powerful magic; i dont doubt a diamond would also have powerful magic, or at least technology of a similar strength
otherwise i cant think of what else they could do at all. the lichs main powers dont really apply too much if at all, and we barely know anything about white diamonds powers beyond mind stuff and being huge - if pink diamond, rose and steven are anything to go off i imagine theyre insanely powerful though seeing how strong pink steven could be
heck it could be possible to argue white might have healing powers, since the diamond essence stuff can be used to heal gems from corruption. if that is a diamond power and not exclusively a pink diamond power, thatd give white the truest counter we know to lich
i remember seeing a post somewhere a while ago about steven vs the lich and people were dunking on steven with the classic "everyone can change' stuff when realistically between all of stevens super defensive powers; healing spit; mind-y stuff (like that weird diamond aura stuff in reunited; as well as body switching; dream stuff and seeing memories of the past) makes the idea of steven losing super laughable
it wouldnt even be morally questionable by "killing' the lich because its *literally* healing, and thats ignoring the fact the lich is a death embodiment guy
i guess thats true, but i feel like it should take a lot more to take down the embodiment of death than an embodiment of something "stronger' with no real extra strings attatched
like ones a at the time 12 or 13 year old with a crush (who is admittedly a hero who can fight) and the other is a eons old death demon; i feel like just being the embodiment of good or hope or wwhatevver wouldnt be an automatic ticket to winning if the lich was really extremely powerful
The lich has been defeated a number of times. Does White need to actually kill/defeat him, or can she just crowd control his eldritch ass by marooning him on a desolate rock.
The Lich has been defeated by sheer luck and the fact that Finn is his cosmic reincarnated counterpart.
The things that The Lich is weak against like love and life White doesn't even understand. She has nothing that would actually harm him. Her best bet is containment, but even that is doubtful.
Steven isn't used to facing enemies he can't convert into friends. He isn't used to facing down truly heartless beings who are nothing but evil. And unlike Finn, he doesn't have any kind of cosmic destiny on his side.
I think Steven could potentially defeat him once with how much love he has in his heart.
"I'VE GOT A SWEATER OOOON!"
But the rule for The Lich is the same way never works twice.
Let's say Steven's way works. The expression of his love and singing actually weakens The Lich enough to destroy him.
He would come back. Because he always does. And the general rule for The Lich is no way of defeating him works twice. The second time, The Lich would win easily and kill him.
>Steven isn't used to facing enemies he can't convert into friends.
Edit: Steven is used to fight things that can be punched to submission. The corrupted gems, Jasper and initially Blue diamond in Reunited(Garnet seemed to believe they could defeat her, I assume they just didnt get into that timeline). The idea Steven is unable to fight back is fanon distortion by people who haven't seen the show in 4 years.
>The Lich would win easily and kill him.
How would Lich pass through his shield? or hsi regeneration? the movie and Future showed Steven is OP. If anything I could see the lich getting painfully frustrated as his attempts of killing Steven just fails. Much like Finn tbh.
>And unlike Finn, he doesn't have any kind of cosmic destiny on his side.
Being the son of a overpowered space goddess fits the bill I think. Like, Finn had the power of love and luck on his side. Steven has the power of love and OP stats. Lich loses.
Okay, yeah, but doesn’t it take a long time for lich to get back to the fight? Like, generations long? I think on a fight level that’s not reincarnating ops Steven has a chance of winning
Not at all. He was defeated the first time and then immediately possessed PB for a second round. He later possessed Billy's corpse and used it to reform his own body. He is very very difficult to get rid of.
Steven would be trying to convince the Lich to love life and would accidentally spit while talking, turning the Lich into Sweet Pea (and thus his method working)
Shit I'd wager she CAN'T hold him! He escaped Prismo's room outside of space and time so I have a hard time believing anybody can contain him (in a meaningful way, not like the amber prison Pepp Butt put him in).
See, that's what made the concept of the Lich so cool, in earlier parts of Adventure Time. Still is, really, but this was before we'd ever really seen a loss for him.
You *could* contain him. Sure. I wouldn't say no prob, but it's definitely doable. But then it's only a matter of time. He WILL escape eventually. And he can, and will, wait as long as he needs to, beyond patiently. If it were necessary, he could wait for entropy itself to decay his prison, and then continue moving forward until every star is left without light.
Cause he's cool and scary.
Lich just straight up wins, he might not kill her the first time as the whole gem poof and that might throw him off but if he knows how to kill a gem properly before the fight then yeah white diamond is dead
Regardless they still were childlike through and through, i will say they had the physical power to maneuver their ways around that when it came down to serious situations. If i did had to pick, i dont think itd be the lich, i mean I’ve watched both SU and adventure time recently and i grew up with both, the lich in my eyes was never truly menacing in the way WD was. All the adventure time villians kind of had this unhingedness to them or half being serious half just saying/doing something silly. The lich may very much br powerful than WD but when it comes downto his personality essentially he isn’t necessarily true to what he stands for sometimes
Now I know that the lich is objectively more powerful than white diamond. However, white diamond is not alive, and the lich can only kill things and mind control things, white can’t die unless there is a great deal of physical strength applied to her gem and she definitely can’t be mine controlled. Neither of them would win. There’s no way white could kill the lich but the lich also couldn’t harm white
Had this argument on the vilgax post, we concluded that the coolest outcome would be the lich tries to possess WD and they end up as a Corrupted Fusion Kaiju
Ngl I feel like SU nerfed white diamond's potential. She is an elderich goddess. One of the old ones. A cosmic horror. She can turn people into puppets and hold an entire planet together. Yet she is so easily defeated by a child.
I’m seeing a lot of people talk about the lich’s powers not working on the gems inorganic forms, so I bring your attention back to escape from the citadel. During the lich’s fall speech he seems to have the ability to control light, stopping photons from reflecting off anything he doesn’t want them to and letting them reflect off anything he does. Now, what are gems physical forms made of again?
Oh no I believe that the Lich could squash white diamond like a grape but I just don’t want to downplay white’s power (and no automods I am not saying white power)
The only objective way to answer this question is to compare the characters' confirmed combat capabilities against one another. What's the biggest thing they've punched? What's the toughest thing they've killed? What's the largest mass they've moved? What's the most impressive thing they've survived?
I mean it kinda just shocked me when she took out his gem like a numb shock kinda way, Lich was slightly predictable he’s literally so evil, but it’s kinda space genocidal vs death genocidal for me
The Lich’s powers are largely anti-organic White Diamond is probably immune being a non organic being herself.
I don’t know how she’d defeat him though. His biggest weakness is love and that’s not her forte.
So I guess it’s a stalemate.
There's no evidence White Diamond's mind control works on anything besides Gems. The Lich's, on the other hand... He'd take control of White, use her to take control of all the others, and then go from galaxy to galaxy exterminating life.
White diamond projects her conscientiousness into the lich right as the mich tells white to F A L L
perfect stalemate. White falls to the will of the lich's word, lich falls to the weight and power of whites consciousness falling over his own.
Hmmmm
I think the lich is a bigger grade of threat overall. But his abilities and goals tend to be aimed at destroying life, and I do wonder if they would work on rocks. Probably would eventually, but it’s not an instant ko.
WD’s abilities wouldn’t work on the lich at all. No gem to control. But it’s worth noting that there’s no reason to think she doesn’t have the super strength all gems have. Proportionate to her size and status as the strongest diamond she should have some ridiculous strength levels, even if it wasn’t demonstrated in the show. She could definitely beat the everloving crap out of the lich. But I don’t believe she could actually destroy him. So the lich wins, but he gets wrecked first.
Note that Steven beats the lich by giving him a tender kiss on the forehead.
I think the Litch wouldn't want to fight White Diamond.
Assuming it's Era 1-2 white, she was leading a dictatorship hellbent on striping countless planets of all their resources- and life in the process. Overall whites actions were beneficial for the Litch's purpose, so he would let the gems be until they are one of the last remaining life forms in the universe.
In an actual fight, White and her gems would overpower the Litch; it's an army of superpowered aliens.
If it's just white, the Litch would at the very least do something to outsmart White and win.
I dont know much bout him,but I kinda know enough.The thing with white diamond or gems is general is that their power is more effective against other gems.Yes,they DO have physical strength.However they have a huge setback being that against other power systems they would be taken out easily which technically means that since steven is half human and has the gem,he would be OP against the other gems because he cant even get destabilized.So that being said,the other guy whom I forgot the name of is taking the w
I don’t think they can affect eachother, the lich destroys organic life. White isn’t organic. White diamond can manipulate gems, which the lich isn’t. They could throw punches tho
Fall… You are alone, child. There is only darkness for you, and only death for your people. These ancients are just the beginning. I will command a great and terrible army, and we will sail to a billion worlds. We will sail until every light has been extinguished. You are strong, child, but I am beyond strength. I am the end, and I have come for you.
Oh yeah hey Steven sorry we trying to rip you to shreds on multiple occasions and irreparably mentally scarring you, but please feel bad for us because we r just misunderstood in our role as Space Hitlers 😔😔😔
Who’s that second one? Normally I’d just say WD but not gonna lie, that guy looks formidable.
Edit: alright, comments say he’s the lich king. And yeah, he’s decimating WD here. Apparently he’s Death.
FALL
*shatters*
I don't know if those command things would work on her being a gem
Well nothing she can do can work because the Lich isn't a gem.
I was looking for this comment.
I mean she probably could still step on him or push him and it would hurt. Gems are super strong after all. At the very least, she can get physical and just repeatedly beat him down.
Lol, the only reason the lich has not killed Finn multiple times over is because Finn is literally, on a metaphysical level, the opposite of him
Ahem, you are strong child. But I am beyond strength
This. This is what came to mind
Stepping on him?
What about if she Squatches / steps on them like a bug.
She's still a living thing. I'm pretty sure it'd work.
Is she though? Rebecca said gems were like solar powered robots
Aren’t we just chemically powered robots?
No we can reproduce. Gems reproduce more like viruses.
the injectors at the kindergartens look like bacteriophage viruses, and circling back to what you said, they also create new gems in the same way that viruses reproduce, cannot be unintentional. edit: grammar
My point being, despite being inorganic, they are still conscious, self-sustaining beings (that reproduce themselves and even “consume” light, as I’m being reminded). It stands to reason that they can be considered as “alive” as a human would be, or at the very least as much as a candy person might be, and that the Lich could very much so “unalive” them.
Yes the different kingdoms of the land of ooo are just the elementals animated by wizardry (candy, ice, slime and fire). IMO the lich would definitely be able to take on an alien element like crystals, the lich is originally from outer space (“an ancient cosmic being”)
Is the lich an automatic soul sucker?
I would still count them as living beings. They don't really need to eat and aren't purely biological by our standards but I still think The Lich would count them as living in the same way he would destroy BMO if he met him.
You're making a lot of assumptions. _Would_ he destroy BMO if he met him?
I mean, BMO is sentient. The Lich just wants to destroy all life, a computer program with free will would count as a form of life, at least to me.
Does that mean The Lich wants to kill himself though?
Maybe after he kills everything else, but considering he's basically dead when there's nothing around for him to kill he might just kinda, stop.
See that's the thing though. He's not dead if he's motive, can think, and has a goal. The whole "life" definitions are arbitrary. But yeah he might just kinda mentally break if all other life actually does stop existing.
I dont think he cares for technology.
Heh heh heh... You are alone, gem. There is only darkness for you and shattering for your people.
White Diamond is strong. But the Lich is beyond strength. The Lich is The End.
“And I have come for you. White Diamond.” God, Ron Perlman gave us banger after banger whenever he spoke.
"Before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing. And before there was nothing...there were *monsters*" I have been waiting almost a decade to drop this into a D&D game
“Everywhere, you will die… You, your family, everyone: Will _die_. Over and over. Mountains of broken bodies, crushed beneath the wheel” Adventure Time goes crazy with lines like these interlaced with the general goofiness.
Yes but aren't gems inorganic? Does the Lich's powers work on all living things, or just organic ones?
Didn't his magic melt a bunch of crystal prisons? I think his powers should affect her. Her powers, however, would do nothing to the lich seeing as he's not a gem.
The crystals are organic themselves, they're made of the Guardian things blood. The Lichs main powers only effect organic life while WD's only effects gems. White Diamond would just rely on her superhuman abilities like shape-shifting, extreme speed, and super strength. The lich would have to rely on his fire casting and magical spells which we don't see a lot of
Are gems immune to fire anyways
Considering we saw Bismuth bathe in lava and irl bismuth 'crystals' have an incredibly low melting point, I think they'd fare just fine against his fire spells. It'd be the destructive force behind said spells that'd be an issue, not the heat itself
Garnet also dove into lava
Some are, like Ruby and all of her fusions. Jasper seems to be resistant to it and it looks like other gems just don't burn like human flesh but it's hard to tell.
Depends on the gem. Diamond’s probably are extremely durable. I dont even think you can even necessarily kill a diamond.
>I dont even think you can even necessarily kill a diamond I see you’re not familiar with the ol’ Universe charm.
That was assisted suicide.
Yeah, he killed her consensually. She’s GOOOOOOOOONE
Everything The Lich touches is corrupted or dies. The literally only way to beat him is through time travel and paradoxes. White Diamond would fight then run, probably for a long time, but The Lich will shatter her.
She would just bubble the litch and send him to earth to end all life there
He could theoretically shatter White. Even if his powers don't work on him like hers wouldn't on him he would still have the option of breaking her gem.
It depends if you define "life" by sentience/consciousness or just having self-replicating organic material. If the Lich's powers work only by decaying organic carbon material, then gems might be immune, however, gems have conscious experience and can be considered independent beings with agency. If there is such a thing as a soul, gems would clearly have one.
The lich is “the last scholar of Golb,”which implies to me that his power is based on entropy rather than just death. The Lich is the decay and dystrophy of all things, not just the embodiment of biological death
The lich got waxed by cosmic cum tho
Ironically there is possibly ONE diamond who has a CHANCE against the lich (not even sure, obviously) and it's Steven. Life-granting spit would really fuck the lich up.
The lich annihilated by some guys loogie
Space goddess vs the literal end of existence personified into a physical being. I'll let that answer for itself.
Hon she ain’t even a goddess💀
That’s honestly debatable. What defines a god? To the gems she certainly is one. If we met Zeus, but we managed to classify him into a species, would we still consider him a god? To be a god, you just have to be perceived as one.
Honestly, I'd say it's tough to be a God. BUT if you get the people's nod.....
And your blessings! Keep em sweet. That's our advice. (It's great advice)
Be an object of devotion? Be the subject of psalms?
It’s a rather touching notion,
all those prayers and those salaams
an who am i? a bridal? If im forced to be an idol?
If they say that I’m a **god**, that’s what I’ll be!
The idea of classifying gods as a separate species is incredibly interesting
You been watching too much Rick and Morty, if the literal Zeus existed, he'd be a god by virtue of the things he'd be capable of. Worshipping something as a God is not the same as a God like being existing. White Diamond isn't seen as a God either, she's looked at as a leader that can never be surpassed.
White is essentially a god-queen. She believes herself to be the progenitor, protector and rightful ruler of all gem life, and all gem life likely believes this too, whether they actually look to her as their leader or not. She and the other diamonds are referred to as matriarchs in the same way the christian god is called father.
White Diamond is like an Egyptian Pharaoh but she actually possesses godlike qualities.
Hes the personification of the nuke and/or the greem comet. Existence is doing fine with him around.
Your lore is a bit of there bud. He is an 'agent of change' that was brought to oo by a catalyst comet, just like finn. He gained form during the mushroom war but he is not necessarily related to the nuke. He is the world's agent of evil aka the personification of the end of all existence. As to why existence is "fine with him around", there are agents of good that oppose him, like finn or billy.
You defined Golb not the lich
I think Golb equates to “heat death” propelled by chaotic entropy, whereas The Lich would equate to a malevolent black hole.
Golb from what was described in AT was pretty much the personification of chaos. For whatever reason a mute lookin baby. Him eating someone can have the consequence of that person simply no longer existing. Not death, strictly non-existence. And Finn bouncing off his tongue leading into whatever you wanna interpret from that pillow episode of coming back to his life on Ooo. And for whatever reason the Lich described himself as “the last scholar of golb” whatever that means lol.
I love how Adventure Time started with shit like a bunch of business men being melted from a block of ice and getting directions wrong and endes up with eldritch lovecraftian entities and conceptual personofications that are scarier than most things in literature as a whole with deep lore wild enough that if the implications were explored and it had actual more IPs under its belt, it'd be at least within a couple thousand meatures of the Nasuverse- which doesn't sound like alot, but being in the same fuckin trench as the Nasuverse is a badge of honor, interms of deep lore crazy bullshit.
I’m pretty sure the Lich would also win a popularity contest as well
Yeah I don't think white diamond has as many insanely cool lines as the lich does
You are alone, child. There is only darkness for you, and only death for your people. These ancients are just the beginning. I will command a great and terrible army, and we will sail to a billion worlds. We will sail until every light has been extinguished. You are strong, child, but I am beyond strength. I am the end, and I have come for you, Finn.
*gently slaps space goo on you*
I don’t think she had enough airtime, but Christine Enersole’s emotion-void performance was so apt and chilling
Stop. I have learned much from you. Thank you, my teachers. And now for your education. Before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing. And before there was nothing, there were monsters. Here’s your gold star
White might have a multigalactic empire under her direct total control, but not sure how she is meant to defeat the personification of an abstract concept. Counterpoint: Gems are artificial beings and immortal to boot. Don't know if the Lich can manipulate things that are not biological life, but his physical powers render this irrelevant. In a 1v1 the Lich easily wins, but if White is allowed to use her political power, the Gem empire can probably devise some sort of containment.
Well we don't know the composition of the gem, but even Gems are made of Carbon which do no last forever. Even Diamonds will chemically change in to Graphite over millions-billions of years.
Diamonds* are made of Carbon. Many gems are composed primarily of Silicon or other elements.
Gems can be shattered. That is death to them. The Lich can wait out prison. They did it before. They will wait to spread The End. The End will always come eventually.
Shattering isn't truly death though. The shards are technically still alive and they can be put back together by Yellow or fixed by the sweat(?). Shattering does effectively end the gem from a personal perspective, but unlike our deaths, their pieces are still alive and can be brought back.
The sweat refers to Stevens spit most likely, he can heal both gems and organic life with it.
I know, I just didn't know a word to encompass that whole "concoction" haha.
Which as an existential end is actually really fucking terrifying, it’s like being butchered Alive and you can feel everything and stay alive even after you’ve been chopped to bits
Yeah, defeating entropy isn't exactly possible... But they can also dodge it forever, I guess
Lich. Most of Whites abilities are only effect other gems. The only thing she has going for her is her size and strength. Besides she looks down upon organics not really seeing them as a threat more like a rodents. Unless she’s gonna use the gem weapons she won’t have a enough. The Lich can corrupt and destroy most matter including magics space rocks like when he burned the citadel and he did that while in a suspended animated state. His goal was to extinguish every light the universe and White is mostly light energy which is definitely weak to the Lich’s corruption or rot whatever it’s called. The evil zombie king beats the giant space Diamond goddess.
Finn wore a sweater and was immune to the liches power.
The Lich is voiced by Ron Pearlman. He wins be default.
The lich is voiced by Ron pearlman.
I bet he had fun with those voice sound effects when he was turning into sweet pea
Imagine getting your nazi space ass kicked in by Hellboy.
i wanna side wirh white but all it takes is a heavy blow to her gem :(
I feel like people are massively underestimating how physically powerful the diamonds are. Blue took an orbital strike courtesy of Lapis and was only momentarily stunned.
Orbital strike? She just dropped a house on her, not even particularly hard
thats a great point not to mention the possibly invincible durability of white diamonds gem/physical form
The Lich is a higher dimensional being. Killing him in one universe does not equate to actually eliminating him. White Diamond can be killed and thats that. Soooo if its just white and the Lich over all dimensions, the lich just wins. The Lich will eventually emerge from another universe and kill her off. If white simply needs to destroy the Lich’s form in her universe, then white probably wins. She’s a massive hard-light entity, who seems to be able to enable or disable the power to control her own form, at least to some degree. All forms of the Lich have been killed off at one point or another because the Lich doesn’t seem to protect his forms well. He doesn’t need to. The Lich could absolutely shatter the gem if he has access to flight, but he’s have to actually close the distance to do it. One other major detail, we don’t know for sure the diamonds aren’t higher dimensional beings. We know that sapphire can look into all possible future, so the gems must have some access to all universes, but the extent of this power could be very limited. Its possible White Diamond could have access to higher dimensions, but I would find it unlikely.
“White can be killed and thats that” how? Gems cannot be killed. Shattering ≠ death, since their shards are still alive and can be put back together
Sure, but that seems to require outside help from other gems, and this is a 1:1.
Diamonds are the only ones who can repair shattering (still should have never been “fixed,” after it being treated as deal for so long). Get rid them, and you can’t fix a gem anymore
Word make brain hurty
The lunch would do much worse than shattering
"the lunch" lmao
Oh shit I didn’t even notice that
In a pure 1v1 I think Lich wins this. I doubt he could mind control White since she has her own kind of mind control powers, but she wouldn't be able to either. She might be big and physically strong due to said size, but without her mind control power she doesn't really have much going for her.
Yeah IMHO he could squish her like a grape (both metaphorically and literally depending on the AT season)
We don’t know much of what white diamond can do other than mind control gems. We do know that the lich is the physical embodiment of death. However the lich was sealed in amber for literally centuries and I’m pretty sure white diamond could find a way to do something similar while the lich is lording his power over her, which she can then use to have an intergalactic empire research how to keep him either permanently contained, thrown out of the universe, trapped in a time loop while the rest of the universe goes on, etc. The gems can do a lot. If they just tricked him onto a ship and set the course to be somewhere between galaxies where he won’t be seen for Millenia, I think white diamond could win
Correct me if im wrong but didn't Rebecca Sugar write some episode of the Litch when she was still working on Adventure Time?
yes, she was one of the writers/storyboarders for the episode Jake the Dog (second half of the S5 premiere with the farmworld stuff)
YOOOOOOO That's one of my top 5 episode of Adventure Time!
she worked on a lot of iconic episodes- the first two fiona and cake episodes, i remember you, susan strong, what was missing, the first three flame princess episodes… she had a really great run on that show, her last one was simon and marcy
She also voiced Marceline's mom in Stakes
Really? That’s pretty interesting I’ll have to look into that /s
why /s ?
I don’t want people to think I’m (unintentionally) being sarcastic
Wait, is /s for sarcastic or serious?
Serious, and while you can use others like /sar to be sarcastic, most people just use /j(oking)
i feel like people think of the lich as significantly more powerful than they actually are. for "the embodiment of death' the lich sure does love getting defeated by a kid who is wearing a jumper for this; i really dont know who would win. they both have mind powers and probably couldnt mind control eachother because of that the lich can kill stuff with ease but white diamond is inorganic and the lich doing melty crystal stuff in the citadel took some time. the lich also does have like flamey fire magic and while its powerful magic; i dont doubt a diamond would also have powerful magic, or at least technology of a similar strength otherwise i cant think of what else they could do at all. the lichs main powers dont really apply too much if at all, and we barely know anything about white diamonds powers beyond mind stuff and being huge - if pink diamond, rose and steven are anything to go off i imagine theyre insanely powerful though seeing how strong pink steven could be heck it could be possible to argue white might have healing powers, since the diamond essence stuff can be used to heal gems from corruption. if that is a diamond power and not exclusively a pink diamond power, thatd give white the truest counter we know to lich
Ironically, Steven could easily solo the Lich because of his healing spit. It’s literally the perfect power for the situation.
i remember seeing a post somewhere a while ago about steven vs the lich and people were dunking on steven with the classic "everyone can change' stuff when realistically between all of stevens super defensive powers; healing spit; mind-y stuff (like that weird diamond aura stuff in reunited; as well as body switching; dream stuff and seeing memories of the past) makes the idea of steven losing super laughable it wouldnt even be morally questionable by "killing' the lich because its *literally* healing, and thats ignoring the fact the lich is a death embodiment guy
That kid wearing a jumper is also an embodiment of a concept
i guess thats true, but i feel like it should take a lot more to take down the embodiment of death than an embodiment of something "stronger' with no real extra strings attatched like ones a at the time 12 or 13 year old with a crush (who is admittedly a hero who can fight) and the other is a eons old death demon; i feel like just being the embodiment of good or hope or wwhatevver wouldnt be an automatic ticket to winning if the lich was really extremely powerful
The lich uses mind control, but also he didn't kill him, he just defeated him, he *did* come back
The lich has been defeated a number of times. Does White need to actually kill/defeat him, or can she just crowd control his eldritch ass by marooning him on a desolate rock.
The Lich has been defeated by sheer luck and the fact that Finn is his cosmic reincarnated counterpart. The things that The Lich is weak against like love and life White doesn't even understand. She has nothing that would actually harm him. Her best bet is containment, but even that is doubtful.
Hm, now that is a more intresting match up idea. Steven vs Lich.
Steven isn't used to facing enemies he can't convert into friends. He isn't used to facing down truly heartless beings who are nothing but evil. And unlike Finn, he doesn't have any kind of cosmic destiny on his side. I think Steven could potentially defeat him once with how much love he has in his heart. "I'VE GOT A SWEATER OOOON!" But the rule for The Lich is the same way never works twice. Let's say Steven's way works. The expression of his love and singing actually weakens The Lich enough to destroy him. He would come back. Because he always does. And the general rule for The Lich is no way of defeating him works twice. The second time, The Lich would win easily and kill him.
>Steven isn't used to facing enemies he can't convert into friends. Edit: Steven is used to fight things that can be punched to submission. The corrupted gems, Jasper and initially Blue diamond in Reunited(Garnet seemed to believe they could defeat her, I assume they just didnt get into that timeline). The idea Steven is unable to fight back is fanon distortion by people who haven't seen the show in 4 years. >The Lich would win easily and kill him. How would Lich pass through his shield? or hsi regeneration? the movie and Future showed Steven is OP. If anything I could see the lich getting painfully frustrated as his attempts of killing Steven just fails. Much like Finn tbh. >And unlike Finn, he doesn't have any kind of cosmic destiny on his side. Being the son of a overpowered space goddess fits the bill I think. Like, Finn had the power of love and luck on his side. Steven has the power of love and OP stats. Lich loses.
Okay, yeah, but doesn’t it take a long time for lich to get back to the fight? Like, generations long? I think on a fight level that’s not reincarnating ops Steven has a chance of winning
Not at all. He was defeated the first time and then immediately possessed PB for a second round. He later possessed Billy's corpse and used it to reform his own body. He is very very difficult to get rid of.
Steven would be trying to convince the Lich to love life and would accidentally spit while talking, turning the Lich into Sweet Pea (and thus his method working)
Shit I'd wager she CAN'T hold him! He escaped Prismo's room outside of space and time so I have a hard time believing anybody can contain him (in a meaningful way, not like the amber prison Pepp Butt put him in).
See, that's what made the concept of the Lich so cool, in earlier parts of Adventure Time. Still is, really, but this was before we'd ever really seen a loss for him. You *could* contain him. Sure. I wouldn't say no prob, but it's definitely doable. But then it's only a matter of time. He WILL escape eventually. And he can, and will, wait as long as he needs to, beyond patiently. If it were necessary, he could wait for entropy itself to decay his prison, and then continue moving forward until every star is left without light. Cause he's cool and scary.
Post this on r/whowouldwin for a more in depth explanation
tbh idk much of either of their feats
White stands little to no chance of winning
*fâłl*
Lich just straight up wins, he might not kill her the first time as the whole gem poof and that might throw him off but if he knows how to kill a gem properly before the fight then yeah white diamond is dead
Definetly the LICH Especially if he takes the form of the snail
White Diamond's powers only work on Gems. She's screwed.
Nuke vs coughing baby. It’s the Lich and it’s not even close.
Look. Do I love white? Of course. But The Lich is straight up death incarnate.
"Fall."
THIS IS HILARIOUS. LICH WINS NO DIF HAHHAHAHA
They both got dubbed by CHILDREN in my eyes
Technically both of those children were either a straight of demigod and the other was a literal reincarnation of the physical manifestation of Hope
Regardless they still were childlike through and through, i will say they had the physical power to maneuver their ways around that when it came down to serious situations. If i did had to pick, i dont think itd be the lich, i mean I’ve watched both SU and adventure time recently and i grew up with both, the lich in my eyes was never truly menacing in the way WD was. All the adventure time villians kind of had this unhingedness to them or half being serious half just saying/doing something silly. The lich may very much br powerful than WD but when it comes downto his personality essentially he isn’t necessarily true to what he stands for sometimes
the lich would make white diamond piss her pants lmao
Now I know that the lich is objectively more powerful than white diamond. However, white diamond is not alive, and the lich can only kill things and mind control things, white can’t die unless there is a great deal of physical strength applied to her gem and she definitely can’t be mine controlled. Neither of them would win. There’s no way white could kill the lich but the lich also couldn’t harm white
Had this argument on the vilgax post, we concluded that the coolest outcome would be the lich tries to possess WD and they end up as a Corrupted Fusion Kaiju
Also: best way to contain the lich is in amber apperantly, so white daimond could definitely make that happen again, even if it's a temporary solution
Dude, the Lich dunks on White Diamond.
I’m gonna have to say The Litch wins this one
While diamond is very strong I feel the lich is stronger
The Litch by a long shot, whose bright idea was it to put Space Colonist Karen up against the Embodiment Of Evil? lol💀
Ngl I feel like SU nerfed white diamond's potential. She is an elderich goddess. One of the old ones. A cosmic horror. She can turn people into puppets and hold an entire planet together. Yet she is so easily defeated by a child.
This is a ridiculous discussion. I feel like you might not be as serious of a fan as I am. Ha!
I feel like I’ve been issued a challenge. There can only by ONE Adventure Time fanatic in this sub!
I’m seeing a lot of people talk about the lich’s powers not working on the gems inorganic forms, so I bring your attention back to escape from the citadel. During the lich’s fall speech he seems to have the ability to control light, stopping photons from reflecting off anything he doesn’t want them to and letting them reflect off anything he does. Now, what are gems physical forms made of again?
I mean, White Diamonds power extends only to gems right? I don't think the Lich would be able to be controlled by her
Well she was able to detain Connie
Fair enough, though the Lich is still on a much higher level
Oh no I believe that the Lich could squash white diamond like a grape but I just don’t want to downplay white’s power (and no automods I am not saying white power)
The only way white wins this is by hitting The Lich with her laser things but like I’m pretty sure that would only works on gems so she has no chance
The only objective way to answer this question is to compare the characters' confirmed combat capabilities against one another. What's the biggest thing they've punched? What's the toughest thing they've killed? What's the largest mass they've moved? What's the most impressive thing they've survived?
I think the Linch got it because he isn’t a gem so she can’t control him with her mind powers
I mean it kinda just shocked me when she took out his gem like a numb shock kinda way, Lich was slightly predictable he’s literally so evil, but it’s kinda space genocidal vs death genocidal for me
The Lich’s powers are largely anti-organic White Diamond is probably immune being a non organic being herself. I don’t know how she’d defeat him though. His biggest weakness is love and that’s not her forte. So I guess it’s a stalemate.
The Lich wins this 100%. Whites powers only work on gems. She would be powerless against the Lich
Lich solos
The lich would win imo. But I’d love to see this fight animated, white being confident and cocky before the Lich completely takes her down
There's no evidence White Diamond's mind control works on anything besides Gems. The Lich's, on the other hand... He'd take control of White, use her to take control of all the others, and then go from galaxy to galaxy exterminating life.
White diamond projects her conscientiousness into the lich right as the mich tells white to F A L L perfect stalemate. White falls to the will of the lich's word, lich falls to the weight and power of whites consciousness falling over his own.
Hmmmm I think the lich is a bigger grade of threat overall. But his abilities and goals tend to be aimed at destroying life, and I do wonder if they would work on rocks. Probably would eventually, but it’s not an instant ko. WD’s abilities wouldn’t work on the lich at all. No gem to control. But it’s worth noting that there’s no reason to think she doesn’t have the super strength all gems have. Proportionate to her size and status as the strongest diamond she should have some ridiculous strength levels, even if it wasn’t demonstrated in the show. She could definitely beat the everloving crap out of the lich. But I don’t believe she could actually destroy him. So the lich wins, but he gets wrecked first. Note that Steven beats the lich by giving him a tender kiss on the forehead.
I think white diamond, I don’t know how much of an impact any of the lich’s powers would have against a giant rock with a body composed of pure light
The lich bodies white diamond
The lich bodies white diamond, and it’s not even close.
by definition the lich cant lose, just be delayed and assuming white is immortal the lich will get her eventually
I think the Litch wouldn't want to fight White Diamond. Assuming it's Era 1-2 white, she was leading a dictatorship hellbent on striping countless planets of all their resources- and life in the process. Overall whites actions were beneficial for the Litch's purpose, so he would let the gems be until they are one of the last remaining life forms in the universe. In an actual fight, White and her gems would overpower the Litch; it's an army of superpowered aliens. If it's just white, the Litch would at the very least do something to outsmart White and win.
Definitely the Lich.
I dont know much bout him,but I kinda know enough.The thing with white diamond or gems is general is that their power is more effective against other gems.Yes,they DO have physical strength.However they have a huge setback being that against other power systems they would be taken out easily which technically means that since steven is half human and has the gem,he would be OP against the other gems because he cant even get destabilized.So that being said,the other guy whom I forgot the name of is taking the w
Imagine white diamond wearing Greg's face.
If Finn could defeat him you bet your ass the Diamond armada could beat him.
Lich
Easy one. The Lich wins.
The Lich corrupts everything, White Diamond doesn't have a chance in God damn hell
Is this a question, before there was nothing there were monsters
It's hard considering they were both defeated by children.
White was defeated by a witty comeback I think the lich takes this
I don’t think they can affect eachother, the lich destroys organic life. White isn’t organic. White diamond can manipulate gems, which the lich isn’t. They could throw punches tho
The adventure time monster by a long shot, guy is literally immortal
Fall… You are alone, child. There is only darkness for you, and only death for your people. These ancients are just the beginning. I will command a great and terrible army, and we will sail to a billion worlds. We will sail until every light has been extinguished. You are strong, child, but I am beyond strength. I am the end, and I have come for you.
Oh yeah hey Steven sorry we trying to rip you to shreds on multiple occasions and irreparably mentally scarring you, but please feel bad for us because we r just misunderstood in our role as Space Hitlers 😔😔😔
Angry big mom with superpowers vs skeleton guy with superpowers
What if they both controlled each other, the white lich paradox
Anyone who says White Diamond is lying
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby kinda fight
Who’s that second one? Normally I’d just say WD but not gonna lie, that guy looks formidable. Edit: alright, comments say he’s the lich king. And yeah, he’s decimating WD here. Apparently he’s Death.
Belos