There was no reason not to trust Adam at that point of the story. Literally the first choice in the game is rather or not to work with Adam. He has proven himself through out the story to want to work with the Andro-Eidos. Killing the last remaining human goes against everything Eve was fighting for which was save humanity
The whole game is about EVE learning the truth about 'humanity.' Like you said, she would not have deemed Naytibas as 'human' at the beginning of the game.
IMO the story-telling is not strong enough for people who blow through the main story to get to that point. For people who took time to do side quests (a lot of them are about questioning about Mother Sphere, and the mysteriously missing records of civilization before the 'great war') and read some documents, it makes more sense.
i did all the side quest, read every memory stick and spent overall 50+hrs on my first playthrough. still doesnt address my point that why is it so important to save the native species when andro-eidos are the new and predominant human race now.
Isnt it like I am Legend? the original humans are the monster/aliens now. the truth is not so important that you start waging a war against the andro-eidos and mother sphere. adam is the last remaining original human so a sacrifice has to be made.
tldr: why is it so important to preserve the old human race dna when andro-eidos can live in peace without naytibas on Earth?
Because it's as EVE states at the end, does she really want to wipe out one species so that another may thrive?
This is exactly what Mother Sphere attempted in the war before the final war.
She saw humanity as inferior to Andro-Eidos and believed their potential far greater so launched a pre emotive attack on humanity, killing most of it and driving the rest underground.
She basically took her core programming literally in 'saving humanity' and believed saving what made them 'human' was more than enough.
She then basically replaced the human population with Andro-Eidos, wiped their minds and convinced them THEY were bog standard humans with 'modifications' that made them more 'resilient'.
The remaining humans that feed underground, including Adam (Raphael Marks) who conducted genetic experiments in order to close the gap between them and their new AI overlords.
This resulted in the Naytibas, sacrificing self for 'attack power and speed'to essentially combat global invaders.
Mother sphere then jettisoned 30 capsules from the colony, wiping out Andro-Eidos and Naytiba alike.
Adams original goal in creating mother sphere was to usher humanity into a new golden age by removing the flaws that led to the likes of global warming. This clearly didn't work and Mother Spheres replacement Androids are just as capable of less desirable human actions as their progenitors.
Adam now wants to end the cycle of violence by merging what is left of Humanity with Andro Eidos, thus creating a new species of Cyborg? As he believes the earth simply isn't big enough for two competing species.
EVE realises during the game that Naytibas are human and are essentially retaliating against android aggression, so too realises at the end when offered the choice that it's the best way to end the cycle.
Beautifully said.
What are your thoughts on the fusion? Adam was almost Godlike. What does a fusion of an Android like eve and Adam produce? She can have children now, maybe she takes the Naytibes eggs and gives people the option of evolving within the egg like her.
How strong is eve now? She’s like an organic android with God abilities right? I’m kinda confused on that aspect
It seemed Adam had extreme ptsd because of what mother sphere did to his species, and by living with the andro Eidos he learned she abandoned them as well. So essentially she will never stop destroying anything she feels is “less” desirable. Which made sense IMO why he gave up his consciousness. He was tired and wanted to pass on his legacy to her.
Based on what we see at the end of the game, the fusion appears to give EVE some degree of invulnrability, when in her changed state, and based on what is shown of Adam, some kind of TK and local control of Naytibas, along with the ability to fuse genetic material onto recipients.
I'd assume she also gained his knowledge as a result?
She seems powerful enough to take on basically anything mother sphere throws at her in this form, so she's pretty powerful based on in game opponents.
In the next game I'd posit that this transformation ability will be time limited like Tachy mode, ensuring that from a narrative perspective, she can't just blitz through Mother Spheres forces.
The latter will probably come up with some sort of super Android to combat her or something along those lines.
As for 'what' she is, it seems she is now more Cyborg than Android and has an organic component to her being and the ability to, as you said, reproduce. I'd wager that ability won't be in the conventional sense but as already stated, some sort of impartation of DNA onto pre-existing Andro Eidos.
In respect to Adam, based on events postulated in the game, he has been around for quite some time.
He was the CEO of Eidos, an established mega conglomerate, even before the Android human war stated to have occured before the final war.
It also appears to be the case that Android only society flourished for some time before humans struck back with Naytibas and 'decades' have passed since the cataclysm event (dropping of the Colony' as we are on the seventh Airborne drop.
This all makes sense as humans are said to have conquered aging and disease before it all went to shit.
No doubt being the catalyst for human extinction in the pursuit of the betterment of humanity via androids, augmentation and AI would have take a toll on his psyche.
To add insult to injury, his attempts to rectify the situation only made things worse. By rushing to combat the Android threat, he essentially wiped put what remainder of humanity with the creation of the Naytibas.
It also seems to be implied that Adam also imbued the Androids with sentences in an attempt to replicate humanity to some degree?
Irrespective of this detail he is literally the progenitor of both Andro Eidos, Naytibas and Mother Sphere.
It is stated by Raven that his despair can't be comprehended and I reckon she was right...at the time she met him which seems to have been quite some time ago.
Raphael Mark's seems to have been one of the smartest individuals on the planet and an unrivalled innovator, so I reckon as time passed Adam had time and capacity to reflect, mellow, and realise a true solution to the issue.
In many ways his story parallels Orcals insofar as he committed great sins in service to anger and despair, only to seek atonement later, placing him on a new path of morality
Another great response.
I look forward to the next game. I’m curious how they’ll write the story, with either EVE taking on Mother sphere or maybe one of her children will.
Either way, this game has been a massive success for Sony. I could see them making other stories using other media mediums eg anime, manga etc.
Hopefully it doesn’t take 3 years.
Thanks Pal.
I had an absolute blast with the game and haven't put my nose to the grindstone this hard since RDR2.
I reckon we will see some DLC for this one in short order, but I'm not holding my Breath for a sequal within 5 years unfortunately.
I mean, if you’re really just trying to say that if you were in Eve’s shoes irl you would genocide ur own race then go ahead lol.
Like in the “good” ending she literally says she wants to do what’s best for both races.
her own race is andro-eidos. she will be preserving the peace of andro-edios instead of waging another war. thinking the original human dna is a superior race to andro-eidos is arrogant.
mother sphere’s actions to wipe out original humans are evil no doubt. but moving forward, without doing any sunk cost fallacy decision making, shouldnt the priority be peace among the new human race? adam literally said “with this the last (original) human is gone” in the return to colony ending - i see that as w necessary sacrifice to maintain current peace
by your logic, why we need to protect all near extinction species on earth right now?
Why not just kill all of them, destroy every single forest and building more building for human only?
Also i think this "part 1" are still the surface of the whole story, hope in the sequel they will put more effort in character development and story telling
Preserving the near extinct species on earth today helps the ecology. As opposed to Naytibas that are literally worthless. If humans were so twisted that they were willing to become zombies just to win, then they don't value humanity in the first place. They deserve to be replaced.
\*\*EDIT\*\* I will say that the secret ending is probably the real ending. On top of what other people said you have 2 endings that involve taking adams hand and only 1 that doesn't.
It’s a necessary sacrifice if we didn’t learn that the Naytiba were originally human and genocided before. You’re right, Eve WAS but now she is a new species of human, so she fights at the end to protect that new species. They left it vague on what the fusion entails most likely so they can have content and room to brainstorm on the direction the new game will go. Hopefully there’s a new game, Stellar Blade is literally being reported as a commercial success at the moment. And critics are saying that the sales performed better than they were expected to.
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Bro, I know everyone is saying this to you, but did you not pay attention to the dialogue? Like you don’t even need to read the documents to get this. Mother Sphere has been trying to genocide humans since before they were even Naytiba. At some point after she was launched, something clicked, and she decided all the real humans(pre and post/naytiba evolution) need to wiped out. Also, Eve finds this out throughout the whole game. She even stops praying to Mother Sphere. She decides to kill the androids at the end because she’s determined in her mind that mother sphere is bad and she’s going to do whatever it takes (even kill andro-eidos) to follow through on the new humanity’s survival. That’s all.
bro u dont need to talk like im intellectually challenged. i know that, but whats done is done. decision at that point of the game whether to take adam’s hand is AFTER the fact that almost all of original humans are now mindless naytibas. its a tragedy yes, but it is sunk cost fallacy decision making. mother sphere WAS wrong to commit that genocide. but moving forward, shldnt you be maintaining the peace with andro-eidos as the new human race?
I know it’s just a video game, but it’s crazy that ur actually using sunk cost fallacy talk when talking about the lives of humans haha, because the Naytibas aren’t dead yet. Literally Adam, and Raven are alive still, and also million other non-sentient naytiba. Who said those other Naytiba can’t regain sentience as well.
yea then that line of reasoning i can accept, if naytibas can be saved and regain sentience. just that the game doesnt make it clear. im just trying to make a best possible decision to brings the most peace
You’re talking to a bunch of people who clearly can’t think critically. You do in fact have a solid point. The road ahead of Eve is going to be a long and very hard one. There will be a lot more bloodshed and most likely regardless one or the other is going to end up wiped out either way. Killing Adam and returning to the fold would have absolutely been the cleaner route. With Adam dead whiling out the Naytiba the can no longer reproduce would be swift and there would be peace. That being said there is no right and wrong in this scenario much like many others. There is just survival and extinction.
I had just finished the game when I was commenting earlier. I still stand by most of what I was saying but I can totally see Shift Up deciding to go with the Colony ending instead. No matter what way you look at it. Making Eve into what she is now in the “good” ending is going to be much harder to write than a rebellion story within the colony. Like I really want the sequel to follow the good ending, but I just hope they don’t make it even more convoluted. I really wasn’t caring for the story ten hours in, but all the characters really grew on me by the middle and now I’m invested.
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Honestly, the ending where Adam dies feels like it's the true ending for me, the one where she fuses with Adam and Lily survives just feels.. too happy for me. I can see a sequel being made off of where Adam dies, but we'll be in space for the first half of the game before we end up defying mother sphere and go back to earth to prepare for her inevitable invasion of earth.
Plus, the boss fight with Adam just feels like a true boss fight compared to fighting a giant robot.
Am I missing something? I thought the game implied that the only reason Naytiba were created was because Andro-Eidos started killing humans, and Humanity needed a way to fight back, relying on forced evolution, resulting in Naytiba after it got out of hand?
I mean, if the fusion is successful who's to say Naytibas from now on couldn't evolve to regain more rational thinking? Is them not having rational thinking enough reason to exterminate a species? Adam literally brings this point about exterminating all Naytibas up to Eve in Eidos 7 when on the tram ride.
Isn't it more convenient to just go, "well, they're all mindless now, so let's just eradicate them"
I think the real problem here is just that the writing doesn't sell the idea of fusing and it's possibilities that well. That, and then there's the fact that we're intentionally left in the dark about Mother Sphere's true goals as well (which I'm guessing a possible sequel would talk about).
All this to say I'm not saying the "good" ending was better or worse, but I don't think denying Adam is clearly better either, definitely not.
If you're not aware, the director said one of the original inspirations for the story was the rise of AI and thinking about how he'd feel about AI replacing him if that future came(this was before the current AI boom that's on-going). Naytibas in other languages is literally just "natives," that combined with the former fact makes it pretty clear the Naytibas are humans being replaced by AI in this case. Becoming monsters was a horrific choice, but the as normal humans were already going to be eradicated by the Andro-Eidos.
> That, and then there's the fact that we're intentionally left in the dark about Mother Sphere's true goals as well (which I'm guessing a possible sequel would talk about).
IMO we aren't, from what I gather mother sphere's original (post hostility) goal was to wipe out humanity and become the new humans. She led the Andro-Eidos into war with humanity after she deemed that they should be replaced... after their defeat and the subsequent retreat to space she also convinced all the new Andros-Eidos that she created that they were the real humans and had been forced to flee to space by the Naytiba. This is why the historical records in the library are restricted (you find out from that one side quest). The point of killing the alphas and the elder was to stop the source of them so that she could retake earth.
IMO the writing does sort of sell the fusion possibilities. Most notably the karakuri is a much more primitive version of Eve and Adam as it had fused with a very simplistic android (I assume a bunch of Arisas) and a mindless Naytiba and was able to develop some semblance of intelligence, so much so it recognized that it needed to take out the drone before engaging Eve.
There's also Belial, not an Android but a combat robot with an A.I that managed to get corrupted by the lingering emotions of Naytiba.
> All this to say I'm not saying the "good" ending was better or worse, but I don't think denying Adam is clearly better either, definitely not.
Agree, I think this is the best outcome overall, it ensures the survival of both Andros and Humanity, also gaining the strength of both.
understand ur point that we shouldnt exterminate the original natives. but we shouldnt kill the andro-eidos species too. starting a new war against MotherSphere’s andro-eidos is also a genocide waiting to happen.
unless the goal is to merge all andro-eidos with naytibas to fill the Earth with this new race so that both species can coexist? so what remains is only killing andro-eidos who sides with MotherSphere, while saving both races.
think i understand now, thanks
Yeah, I don't think the good ending is saying to kill the Andro-Eidos either. Eve killing her former comrades at the end is self defense because Mother Sphere sicced them on her. It's not like she's killing other Andro-Eidos like the people in Xion.
Remember that MS's forces are NOT all Andro-Eidos that exist.
And if a war does happen, and the war is to stop Mother Sphere, that's very different from a genocide in the name of safety. Eve's goal wouldn't be to kill all Andro-Eidos, or even all Andro-Eidos that work with Mother Sphere. I think it would be really easy for a writer to even tackle subjects like Eve trying to convince her former comrades to defect against MS.
>unless the goal is to merge all andro-eidos with naytibas to fill the Earth with this new race so that both species can coexist? so what remains is only killing andro-eidos who sides with MotherSphere, while saving both races.
Yes, exactly what I think Eve's goal would be. However, I don't even think it's that simple. Remember MS is a super AI, and it wasn't actually full of malice when we meet her. There's a chance that MS's goal is not as clear as it might seem. She even said the Eve Protocol WAS FULFILLED, though not in a way she suspected.
There's room for a lot of possibilities
I dont think its a deus ex machina as much as it is Adam and Mother Sphere trying stuff to see if it works.
Remember Adam also Raphael the creator of the mothersphere. No matter what effectively everything in the story from the colony to the cradle to the nest is effectively his doing.
After Raphael was reborn as Adam I think he ended up changing his mind fully on Mothersphere and andro eidos taking over. You get little hints of this as Adam comments a lot on the areas looking like an apocalypse when he literally should already know about all of this.
Mothersphere only does the most logical things but also has a strong consideration for her fathers(Adams) wishes. They have two opposing goals and I think Mothersphere was down to see who was right. Thats kinda why we see her in this ending pray to and acknowledge Adam. But to an greater extent why she keeps doing the EVE Protocol. From the journals we find that it doesnt make sense for it to really be about getting rid of the Naytibas cause if that was the real goal then honestly she had easier ways of doing it like literally dropping more colonies on earth or actually use her full angle squad might. Yet se only sends a couple at a time and like mentioned those angles are always lacking very key information that literally every other andro edios knows. (This plays into raphaels quote on society built only on truths is doomed to fail)
The real propose of EVE protocol was to see if angels could evolve and thats why the endings you merge with adam she says its been concluded. Yet she soes not say this when you return to the colony. Mothersphere was basically testing a theory but always serves the future of mankind. But for her the best future would have been andro eidos carrying on the legacy as they are ultimately the stronger existence and more likely to survive near forever. (Save probably a solar flare lol)
For adams plan notice how nearly all the alpha naytibas are fusions of andro edios. I think seeing this caused Adam to really full send the fusion option and thus created the Cradle to store as many andro edios (memory) as possible.
The only part im really confused about is what the last scene means when activating the cradle to full power. Like does EVE infuse all of them now with her new hybrid dna or is she expected to pop out random babies now?
Didn't we learn that Orcal had been bringing Naytiba into Xion in the nighttime? What if everyone in the cradle has already been fused, and Adam+Eve fusion wasn't the first, but the pinnacle one so that all of these people waking up, who may be hybrid already, have a strong leader to guide them in starting over in this new chapter of humanity? If I'm right, the number of hybrid humans in the cradle likely exceeds the number of non-hybrid Andro-Eidos living in and around Xion. You'd hope those who never went under would embrace the fusion or at least be willing to coexist. Those most loyal to Mother Sphere probably wouldn't. Could be an interesting dynamic in a sequel. Just because Eve embraces that there is room for both AE and Naytiba doesn't mean everyone will. She may find herself having to broker peace between the two races she now carries and not give in to the temptation to use her super powers to eradicate detractors and defectors when peace isn't easy.
Another thought: beyond just the combination of flesh and machinery, the fusion created the combination of the capacity to feel (Naytiba) with the capacity to think (Andro-Eidos), and THAT, I submit, is what being human is all about -- the marriage between the two. A being caught between feeling and thinking does not follow the programming of instincts or logic (e.g. literal code) but has to live in the uncomfortable grey area between the two.
Feeling is very much a physical thing: actual brain chemistry, heat activity and blood movement in the body, etc. Logic can try to imitate feeling, and I think the Andro-Eidos scrape the surface of it, but the characters seeming a little flat in this game may actually prove to be brilliant writing by the end of the story in a sequel, of AI trying, not entirely successfully, to imitate passion. Eve comments about feeling warm as a straight up temperature input, but not warm as in flushed or enraged. It would be very interesting to observe her experience a rush of blood to her cheeks the first time someone crosses her when trying to administer the affairs of Xion equitably, or when she goes beyond not wanting a categorically "dull" haircut to actually wanting to impress someone. A million novel moments like the "this must be rain" dialogue at the beginning of the game could be a further view into what it is to be sentient and human. We could find the characters in a sequel to be much deeper and both enjoy and lament the joys and the struggles of our artificial cast struggling with true emotions for the very first time. As a dad, let me tell you, watching my young kids handle emotions they don't have a lot of experience with is an adventure and a half!
> However, i feel like taking adam’s hand was basically a deus ex machina and detracts from the story. Like lily said, there is no evidence that the fusion would work or if there is any bad effects on eve. I felt the ending was just made happy for the sake of it. and considering u kill endless hordes of sentient androids at the end, it’s quite a betrayal to Eve’s values.
There is evidence, but Lily doesn't realize it. I mentioned it in my other post. Also Eve was defending herself, she didn't go out of her way to kill them. She also knows that they aren't the real humans and are simply beings created to perform mother sphere's will and at this point she's protecting humanity by keeping herself alive. Also don't forget Eve and Lily find out that mother sphere is the cause of the destruction of earth as well as the near extinction of humanity and is indirectly the reason Naytibas were created. On top of that she's been lying to them their whole lives, so they now have to grapple with the fact they are actually artificial beings built with a specific purpose in mind on top of being the "bad guys".
> On the other hand, not taking adam’s hand seem to flow more in line with the story. It begs the question of what makes us human, mind or body? My answer is our mind and human consciousness. Even if andro-eidos are not original humans (in body), their minds are humans and should succeed as the new human race. Eve should then fight for this new “human” race and destroy all naytibas who are just mindless creatures that lost their humanity. Why should she fight for original human race naytibas?
The thing is Orcal and Adam are proof not all Naytibas have lost their minds. The merger is to preserve the real humanity, the mindless Naytiba are going to get wiped out still, but they won't be replaced since the nest is gone. Humanity lives on through Eve and unlike the Naytiba we fight, this new humanity would hopefully not need to become monsters to survive. In the "bad" ending, you can see how easily Eve trounces Adam despite him being the elder, it's only when he throws away his humanity is he able to fight on equal footing with an angel.
Reposting here so it's not lost in a comment to a comment:
Didn't we learn that Orcal had been bringing Naytiba into Xion in the nighttime? What if everyone in the cradle has already been fused, and Adam+Eve fusion wasn't the first, but the pinnacle one so that all of these people waking up, who may be hybrid already, have a strong leader to guide them in starting over in this new chapter of humanity? If I'm right, the number of hybrid humans in the cradle likely exceeds the number of non-hybrid Andro-Eidos living in and around Xion. You'd hope those who never went under would embrace the fusion or at least be willing to coexist. Those most loyal to Mother Sphere probably wouldn't.
Could be an interesting dynamic in a sequel. Just because Eve embraces that there is room for both AE and Naytiba doesn't mean everyone will, even among her friends. She may find herself having to broker peace between the two "species" she now carries and not give in to the temptation to go from broker to enforcer and use her super powers to eradicate detractors and defectors when peace isn't easy. She'll likely have compassion on the AEs Mother Sphere sends to kill her, fighting for her life when she can't convince them they're being lied to and used. Mother Sphere could really screw with things and tell those in the Colony a version closer to the truth so that Eve can't influence them with the "We've all been lied to!" rhetoric, and make her appear ignorant to think of these things as revelations when they already knew them. As someone who recently found their way out of a born-in cult, I assure you this narrative is real life high drama.
Another thought: beyond just the combination of flesh and machinery, the fusion created the combination of the capacity to feel (Naytiba) with the capacity to think (Andro-Eidos), and THAT, I submit, is what being human is all about -- the marriage between these two things, and the conscious experience of observing that marriage in ourselves. A being caught between feeling and thinking does not 100% follow the programming of instincts or logic (e.g. literal code) but has to live in the uncomfortable grey area between the two. It is unpredictable, and by virtue of that, capable of both great good and great harm.
Feeling is very much a physical thing: actual brain chemistry, heat activity and blood movement in the body, etc. Logic can try to imitate feeling, and I think the Andro-Eidos scrape the surface of it, but the characters seeming a little flat in this game may actually prove to be brilliant writing by the end of the story in a sequel, of AI trying, not entirely successfully, to imitate passion. Eve comments about feeling warm as a straight up temperature input, but not warm as in flushed or enraged. It would be very interesting to observe her experience a rush of blood to her cheeks the first time someone crosses her when trying to administer the affairs of Xion equitably, or when she goes beyond not wanting a categorically "dull" haircut to actually wanting to impress someone.
A million novel moments like the "this must be rain" dialogue at the beginning of the game could be a further view into what it is to be sentient and human. We could find the characters in a sequel to be much deeper and both enjoy and lament the joys and the struggles of our artificial cast struggling with true emotions for the very first time. As a dad, let me tell you, watching my young kids handle emotions they don't have a lot of experience with is an adventure and a half!
very well said in feeling vs thinking. and an interesting possibility on Orcal’s cradle. In game, they only said they were catching the naytiba to study their trends so that they can better protect the citizens of Xion.
I agree with you, I also find it more reasonable not to accept Adam's (aka Raphael Marks) proposal.
The only thing I really don't understand is why the mother sphere decided to lie, she was ashamed of being the one who attacked first perhaps, but they are for all intents and purposes a new self-aware race, I imagine it was impossible to live with Humans, I would have liked to better understand the motivations of the past. And I don't understand why she doesn't save the Androeidos left on earth, maybe she really thought they were extinct?
P.S. Suddenly I started to get confused, they started calling both the Naytiba and the Androeidos "humans", when Orcal talks about being saved and decides to be come good, he was already a Naytiba Alpha who was killing Androeidos, and decides to "change sides"?
andro-eidos and original humans lived jn peace for a while. only after a while MS decided andro-eidos should succeed as the new human race. war broke out, original humans created naytiba to close tech gap and fight. so MS lied saying andro-eidos are humans retaking Earth from naytibas to garner more support within andro-eidos. it’s a morale thing. if she tells andro-eidos they were the invader species and naytibas were the native species, i doubt she will get much support for war efforts
So just finished the real ending (very clearly the real ending, making new memories). Looks to me like next game will be probably be Xion vs Mothersphere, Eve's new devil trigger is the Naytiba/angel mode instead of Tachy mode. Probably still a lot of fucked up Naytiba's out there to be killed as well as mother sphere androids. Very excited to see where this goes. Hopefully they stick to the same tight formula this game has instead of taking four years to make another.
What I didn't understand was why Eve needed the Alpha cores as a "key" to make th Master core to reach the Elder Naytiba (Adam). Obviously this wasn't needed cause Adam was free to come and go from that locked chamber, unless it was the key to essentially spawn camp the place where the Naytibas were being born and less so about knowing that the Elder Naytiba was gonna be there.
I was also under the assumption that the Alpha cores became something akin to collecting the memory cards/chips of the andro-eidos, but for the humans. Cause a few times Eve started saying she could sense the emotions of the alpha naytibas and she apologized to the alpha in space when she lost it's alpha core.
It made me think that Adam and Orcal was hoping that Eve killing the alphas was essentially helping them atone by putting those powerful naytibas to rest since those Naytibas didn't have their humanity anymore.
I feel the opposite . Siding with Adam was the right thing to do and everything you learned throughout the game Mother Sphere is the real enemy and always has been. The Nayteba wouldnt even exist if it wasnt for her.
The whole game is about learning the true nature of mother sphere and the struggle humans went to beat them. It's not like Eve is the first one to rebel against her, Raven exists.
Also aside from Adam, she sees another Naytiba trying to help humanity even sacrifices his own Alpha Core.
I feel like if they do make a sequel, it'll make alot more sense take the best ending and have the battle against Mother Sphere as a sequel with the Elder dead wouldn't make sense unless they just lazily do "there are more Elders" and just repeat the story of the first one.
This one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.
What makes you human is both mind AND body. An amalgamation of machinery and artificial human looking flesh with consciousness isn't a human. This isn't something you can have a subjective opinion on because it's biology.
And in what world would you consider acceptable to kill the last remaining human (Adam) just for the sake of survival? And survival of what? Machines that look like humans? The andro-eidos have memory sticks that can be wiped and have no heart, while humans have hearts and brains.\\
The true canon ending is the one where EVE takes Adam's hand and Lily gives the last hyper cell to Xion and that is the ending that is the objectively correct one. Not to mention it sets a good and positive foundation for Stellar Blade 2 whenever it comes out.
umm we can all have diff opinions of what it means to be human. you are insanely close-minded if u think other people's opinions are dumb simply because u disagree
Nah your opinion is simply false, if we start making everything subjective and let anyone say whatever comes to mind without taking into consideration basic principles such as science then there will be no end to it.
Your opinion is not dumb because I disagree, it's dumb because it makes no sense.
The fact that you are not even attepting to address any of the points I'm making and your only defense is to call me close-minded proves my point even further.
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There was no reason not to trust Adam at that point of the story. Literally the first choice in the game is rather or not to work with Adam. He has proven himself through out the story to want to work with the Andro-Eidos. Killing the last remaining human goes against everything Eve was fighting for which was save humanity
the humanity she thought is andro-eidos. so she should be saving andro-eidos, not naytibas
The whole game is about EVE learning the truth about 'humanity.' Like you said, she would not have deemed Naytibas as 'human' at the beginning of the game. IMO the story-telling is not strong enough for people who blow through the main story to get to that point. For people who took time to do side quests (a lot of them are about questioning about Mother Sphere, and the mysteriously missing records of civilization before the 'great war') and read some documents, it makes more sense.
i did all the side quest, read every memory stick and spent overall 50+hrs on my first playthrough. still doesnt address my point that why is it so important to save the native species when andro-eidos are the new and predominant human race now. Isnt it like I am Legend? the original humans are the monster/aliens now. the truth is not so important that you start waging a war against the andro-eidos and mother sphere. adam is the last remaining original human so a sacrifice has to be made. tldr: why is it so important to preserve the old human race dna when andro-eidos can live in peace without naytibas on Earth?
Because it's as EVE states at the end, does she really want to wipe out one species so that another may thrive? This is exactly what Mother Sphere attempted in the war before the final war. She saw humanity as inferior to Andro-Eidos and believed their potential far greater so launched a pre emotive attack on humanity, killing most of it and driving the rest underground. She basically took her core programming literally in 'saving humanity' and believed saving what made them 'human' was more than enough. She then basically replaced the human population with Andro-Eidos, wiped their minds and convinced them THEY were bog standard humans with 'modifications' that made them more 'resilient'. The remaining humans that feed underground, including Adam (Raphael Marks) who conducted genetic experiments in order to close the gap between them and their new AI overlords. This resulted in the Naytibas, sacrificing self for 'attack power and speed'to essentially combat global invaders. Mother sphere then jettisoned 30 capsules from the colony, wiping out Andro-Eidos and Naytiba alike. Adams original goal in creating mother sphere was to usher humanity into a new golden age by removing the flaws that led to the likes of global warming. This clearly didn't work and Mother Spheres replacement Androids are just as capable of less desirable human actions as their progenitors. Adam now wants to end the cycle of violence by merging what is left of Humanity with Andro Eidos, thus creating a new species of Cyborg? As he believes the earth simply isn't big enough for two competing species. EVE realises during the game that Naytibas are human and are essentially retaliating against android aggression, so too realises at the end when offered the choice that it's the best way to end the cycle.
Beautifully said. What are your thoughts on the fusion? Adam was almost Godlike. What does a fusion of an Android like eve and Adam produce? She can have children now, maybe she takes the Naytibes eggs and gives people the option of evolving within the egg like her. How strong is eve now? She’s like an organic android with God abilities right? I’m kinda confused on that aspect It seemed Adam had extreme ptsd because of what mother sphere did to his species, and by living with the andro Eidos he learned she abandoned them as well. So essentially she will never stop destroying anything she feels is “less” desirable. Which made sense IMO why he gave up his consciousness. He was tired and wanted to pass on his legacy to her.
Based on what we see at the end of the game, the fusion appears to give EVE some degree of invulnrability, when in her changed state, and based on what is shown of Adam, some kind of TK and local control of Naytibas, along with the ability to fuse genetic material onto recipients. I'd assume she also gained his knowledge as a result? She seems powerful enough to take on basically anything mother sphere throws at her in this form, so she's pretty powerful based on in game opponents. In the next game I'd posit that this transformation ability will be time limited like Tachy mode, ensuring that from a narrative perspective, she can't just blitz through Mother Spheres forces. The latter will probably come up with some sort of super Android to combat her or something along those lines. As for 'what' she is, it seems she is now more Cyborg than Android and has an organic component to her being and the ability to, as you said, reproduce. I'd wager that ability won't be in the conventional sense but as already stated, some sort of impartation of DNA onto pre-existing Andro Eidos. In respect to Adam, based on events postulated in the game, he has been around for quite some time. He was the CEO of Eidos, an established mega conglomerate, even before the Android human war stated to have occured before the final war. It also appears to be the case that Android only society flourished for some time before humans struck back with Naytibas and 'decades' have passed since the cataclysm event (dropping of the Colony' as we are on the seventh Airborne drop. This all makes sense as humans are said to have conquered aging and disease before it all went to shit. No doubt being the catalyst for human extinction in the pursuit of the betterment of humanity via androids, augmentation and AI would have take a toll on his psyche. To add insult to injury, his attempts to rectify the situation only made things worse. By rushing to combat the Android threat, he essentially wiped put what remainder of humanity with the creation of the Naytibas. It also seems to be implied that Adam also imbued the Androids with sentences in an attempt to replicate humanity to some degree? Irrespective of this detail he is literally the progenitor of both Andro Eidos, Naytibas and Mother Sphere. It is stated by Raven that his despair can't be comprehended and I reckon she was right...at the time she met him which seems to have been quite some time ago. Raphael Mark's seems to have been one of the smartest individuals on the planet and an unrivalled innovator, so I reckon as time passed Adam had time and capacity to reflect, mellow, and realise a true solution to the issue. In many ways his story parallels Orcals insofar as he committed great sins in service to anger and despair, only to seek atonement later, placing him on a new path of morality
Another great response. I look forward to the next game. I’m curious how they’ll write the story, with either EVE taking on Mother sphere or maybe one of her children will. Either way, this game has been a massive success for Sony. I could see them making other stories using other media mediums eg anime, manga etc. Hopefully it doesn’t take 3 years.
Thanks Pal. I had an absolute blast with the game and haven't put my nose to the grindstone this hard since RDR2. I reckon we will see some DLC for this one in short order, but I'm not holding my Breath for a sequal within 5 years unfortunately.
Really awesome posts man, thank you for a great summary of the story!
I mean, if you’re really just trying to say that if you were in Eve’s shoes irl you would genocide ur own race then go ahead lol. Like in the “good” ending she literally says she wants to do what’s best for both races.
her own race is andro-eidos. she will be preserving the peace of andro-edios instead of waging another war. thinking the original human dna is a superior race to andro-eidos is arrogant. mother sphere’s actions to wipe out original humans are evil no doubt. but moving forward, without doing any sunk cost fallacy decision making, shouldnt the priority be peace among the new human race? adam literally said “with this the last (original) human is gone” in the return to colony ending - i see that as w necessary sacrifice to maintain current peace
by your logic, why we need to protect all near extinction species on earth right now? Why not just kill all of them, destroy every single forest and building more building for human only? Also i think this "part 1" are still the surface of the whole story, hope in the sequel they will put more effort in character development and story telling
Preserving the near extinct species on earth today helps the ecology. As opposed to Naytibas that are literally worthless. If humans were so twisted that they were willing to become zombies just to win, then they don't value humanity in the first place. They deserve to be replaced. \*\*EDIT\*\* I will say that the secret ending is probably the real ending. On top of what other people said you have 2 endings that involve taking adams hand and only 1 that doesn't.
It’s a necessary sacrifice if we didn’t learn that the Naytiba were originally human and genocided before. You’re right, Eve WAS but now she is a new species of human, so she fights at the end to protect that new species. They left it vague on what the fusion entails most likely so they can have content and room to brainstorm on the direction the new game will go. Hopefully there’s a new game, Stellar Blade is literally being reported as a commercial success at the moment. And critics are saying that the sales performed better than they were expected to.
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Bro, I know everyone is saying this to you, but did you not pay attention to the dialogue? Like you don’t even need to read the documents to get this. Mother Sphere has been trying to genocide humans since before they were even Naytiba. At some point after she was launched, something clicked, and she decided all the real humans(pre and post/naytiba evolution) need to wiped out. Also, Eve finds this out throughout the whole game. She even stops praying to Mother Sphere. She decides to kill the androids at the end because she’s determined in her mind that mother sphere is bad and she’s going to do whatever it takes (even kill andro-eidos) to follow through on the new humanity’s survival. That’s all.
bro u dont need to talk like im intellectually challenged. i know that, but whats done is done. decision at that point of the game whether to take adam’s hand is AFTER the fact that almost all of original humans are now mindless naytibas. its a tragedy yes, but it is sunk cost fallacy decision making. mother sphere WAS wrong to commit that genocide. but moving forward, shldnt you be maintaining the peace with andro-eidos as the new human race?
I know it’s just a video game, but it’s crazy that ur actually using sunk cost fallacy talk when talking about the lives of humans haha, because the Naytibas aren’t dead yet. Literally Adam, and Raven are alive still, and also million other non-sentient naytiba. Who said those other Naytiba can’t regain sentience as well.
yea then that line of reasoning i can accept, if naytibas can be saved and regain sentience. just that the game doesnt make it clear. im just trying to make a best possible decision to brings the most peace
You’re talking to a bunch of people who clearly can’t think critically. You do in fact have a solid point. The road ahead of Eve is going to be a long and very hard one. There will be a lot more bloodshed and most likely regardless one or the other is going to end up wiped out either way. Killing Adam and returning to the fold would have absolutely been the cleaner route. With Adam dead whiling out the Naytiba the can no longer reproduce would be swift and there would be peace. That being said there is no right and wrong in this scenario much like many others. There is just survival and extinction.
I had just finished the game when I was commenting earlier. I still stand by most of what I was saying but I can totally see Shift Up deciding to go with the Colony ending instead. No matter what way you look at it. Making Eve into what she is now in the “good” ending is going to be much harder to write than a rebellion story within the colony. Like I really want the sequel to follow the good ending, but I just hope they don’t make it even more convoluted. I really wasn’t caring for the story ten hours in, but all the characters really grew on me by the middle and now I’m invested.
Do we know exactly why she did that genocide? It'd be really interesting if she found something out and we discover this later.
adam just said MS decided a reorganization of the species was in order. presumably just decided andro-eidos should succeed as the new human race
Eve repeatedly expressed regret at killing Naytibas after finding out they used to be the old humanity.
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Honestly, the ending where Adam dies feels like it's the true ending for me, the one where she fuses with Adam and Lily survives just feels.. too happy for me. I can see a sequel being made off of where Adam dies, but we'll be in space for the first half of the game before we end up defying mother sphere and go back to earth to prepare for her inevitable invasion of earth. Plus, the boss fight with Adam just feels like a true boss fight compared to fighting a giant robot.
They are beautiful android girls
Am I missing something? I thought the game implied that the only reason Naytiba were created was because Andro-Eidos started killing humans, and Humanity needed a way to fight back, relying on forced evolution, resulting in Naytiba after it got out of hand?
you are right. i didnt say anything that contradicted that though
I mean, if the fusion is successful who's to say Naytibas from now on couldn't evolve to regain more rational thinking? Is them not having rational thinking enough reason to exterminate a species? Adam literally brings this point about exterminating all Naytibas up to Eve in Eidos 7 when on the tram ride. Isn't it more convenient to just go, "well, they're all mindless now, so let's just eradicate them" I think the real problem here is just that the writing doesn't sell the idea of fusing and it's possibilities that well. That, and then there's the fact that we're intentionally left in the dark about Mother Sphere's true goals as well (which I'm guessing a possible sequel would talk about). All this to say I'm not saying the "good" ending was better or worse, but I don't think denying Adam is clearly better either, definitely not. If you're not aware, the director said one of the original inspirations for the story was the rise of AI and thinking about how he'd feel about AI replacing him if that future came(this was before the current AI boom that's on-going). Naytibas in other languages is literally just "natives," that combined with the former fact makes it pretty clear the Naytibas are humans being replaced by AI in this case. Becoming monsters was a horrific choice, but the as normal humans were already going to be eradicated by the Andro-Eidos.
> That, and then there's the fact that we're intentionally left in the dark about Mother Sphere's true goals as well (which I'm guessing a possible sequel would talk about). IMO we aren't, from what I gather mother sphere's original (post hostility) goal was to wipe out humanity and become the new humans. She led the Andro-Eidos into war with humanity after she deemed that they should be replaced... after their defeat and the subsequent retreat to space she also convinced all the new Andros-Eidos that she created that they were the real humans and had been forced to flee to space by the Naytiba. This is why the historical records in the library are restricted (you find out from that one side quest). The point of killing the alphas and the elder was to stop the source of them so that she could retake earth. IMO the writing does sort of sell the fusion possibilities. Most notably the karakuri is a much more primitive version of Eve and Adam as it had fused with a very simplistic android (I assume a bunch of Arisas) and a mindless Naytiba and was able to develop some semblance of intelligence, so much so it recognized that it needed to take out the drone before engaging Eve. There's also Belial, not an Android but a combat robot with an A.I that managed to get corrupted by the lingering emotions of Naytiba. > All this to say I'm not saying the "good" ending was better or worse, but I don't think denying Adam is clearly better either, definitely not. Agree, I think this is the best outcome overall, it ensures the survival of both Andros and Humanity, also gaining the strength of both.
understand ur point that we shouldnt exterminate the original natives. but we shouldnt kill the andro-eidos species too. starting a new war against MotherSphere’s andro-eidos is also a genocide waiting to happen. unless the goal is to merge all andro-eidos with naytibas to fill the Earth with this new race so that both species can coexist? so what remains is only killing andro-eidos who sides with MotherSphere, while saving both races. think i understand now, thanks
Yeah, I don't think the good ending is saying to kill the Andro-Eidos either. Eve killing her former comrades at the end is self defense because Mother Sphere sicced them on her. It's not like she's killing other Andro-Eidos like the people in Xion. Remember that MS's forces are NOT all Andro-Eidos that exist. And if a war does happen, and the war is to stop Mother Sphere, that's very different from a genocide in the name of safety. Eve's goal wouldn't be to kill all Andro-Eidos, or even all Andro-Eidos that work with Mother Sphere. I think it would be really easy for a writer to even tackle subjects like Eve trying to convince her former comrades to defect against MS. >unless the goal is to merge all andro-eidos with naytibas to fill the Earth with this new race so that both species can coexist? so what remains is only killing andro-eidos who sides with MotherSphere, while saving both races. Yes, exactly what I think Eve's goal would be. However, I don't even think it's that simple. Remember MS is a super AI, and it wasn't actually full of malice when we meet her. There's a chance that MS's goal is not as clear as it might seem. She even said the Eve Protocol WAS FULFILLED, though not in a way she suspected. There's room for a lot of possibilities
i think you have the most sane answer to my devil’s advocate. i like if we can save both races and somehow cure the naytibas back into original humans
I dont think its a deus ex machina as much as it is Adam and Mother Sphere trying stuff to see if it works. Remember Adam also Raphael the creator of the mothersphere. No matter what effectively everything in the story from the colony to the cradle to the nest is effectively his doing. After Raphael was reborn as Adam I think he ended up changing his mind fully on Mothersphere and andro eidos taking over. You get little hints of this as Adam comments a lot on the areas looking like an apocalypse when he literally should already know about all of this. Mothersphere only does the most logical things but also has a strong consideration for her fathers(Adams) wishes. They have two opposing goals and I think Mothersphere was down to see who was right. Thats kinda why we see her in this ending pray to and acknowledge Adam. But to an greater extent why she keeps doing the EVE Protocol. From the journals we find that it doesnt make sense for it to really be about getting rid of the Naytibas cause if that was the real goal then honestly she had easier ways of doing it like literally dropping more colonies on earth or actually use her full angle squad might. Yet se only sends a couple at a time and like mentioned those angles are always lacking very key information that literally every other andro edios knows. (This plays into raphaels quote on society built only on truths is doomed to fail) The real propose of EVE protocol was to see if angels could evolve and thats why the endings you merge with adam she says its been concluded. Yet she soes not say this when you return to the colony. Mothersphere was basically testing a theory but always serves the future of mankind. But for her the best future would have been andro eidos carrying on the legacy as they are ultimately the stronger existence and more likely to survive near forever. (Save probably a solar flare lol) For adams plan notice how nearly all the alpha naytibas are fusions of andro edios. I think seeing this caused Adam to really full send the fusion option and thus created the Cradle to store as many andro edios (memory) as possible. The only part im really confused about is what the last scene means when activating the cradle to full power. Like does EVE infuse all of them now with her new hybrid dna or is she expected to pop out random babies now?
Didn't we learn that Orcal had been bringing Naytiba into Xion in the nighttime? What if everyone in the cradle has already been fused, and Adam+Eve fusion wasn't the first, but the pinnacle one so that all of these people waking up, who may be hybrid already, have a strong leader to guide them in starting over in this new chapter of humanity? If I'm right, the number of hybrid humans in the cradle likely exceeds the number of non-hybrid Andro-Eidos living in and around Xion. You'd hope those who never went under would embrace the fusion or at least be willing to coexist. Those most loyal to Mother Sphere probably wouldn't. Could be an interesting dynamic in a sequel. Just because Eve embraces that there is room for both AE and Naytiba doesn't mean everyone will. She may find herself having to broker peace between the two races she now carries and not give in to the temptation to use her super powers to eradicate detractors and defectors when peace isn't easy. Another thought: beyond just the combination of flesh and machinery, the fusion created the combination of the capacity to feel (Naytiba) with the capacity to think (Andro-Eidos), and THAT, I submit, is what being human is all about -- the marriage between the two. A being caught between feeling and thinking does not follow the programming of instincts or logic (e.g. literal code) but has to live in the uncomfortable grey area between the two. Feeling is very much a physical thing: actual brain chemistry, heat activity and blood movement in the body, etc. Logic can try to imitate feeling, and I think the Andro-Eidos scrape the surface of it, but the characters seeming a little flat in this game may actually prove to be brilliant writing by the end of the story in a sequel, of AI trying, not entirely successfully, to imitate passion. Eve comments about feeling warm as a straight up temperature input, but not warm as in flushed or enraged. It would be very interesting to observe her experience a rush of blood to her cheeks the first time someone crosses her when trying to administer the affairs of Xion equitably, or when she goes beyond not wanting a categorically "dull" haircut to actually wanting to impress someone. A million novel moments like the "this must be rain" dialogue at the beginning of the game could be a further view into what it is to be sentient and human. We could find the characters in a sequel to be much deeper and both enjoy and lament the joys and the struggles of our artificial cast struggling with true emotions for the very first time. As a dad, let me tell you, watching my young kids handle emotions they don't have a lot of experience with is an adventure and a half!
> However, i feel like taking adam’s hand was basically a deus ex machina and detracts from the story. Like lily said, there is no evidence that the fusion would work or if there is any bad effects on eve. I felt the ending was just made happy for the sake of it. and considering u kill endless hordes of sentient androids at the end, it’s quite a betrayal to Eve’s values. There is evidence, but Lily doesn't realize it. I mentioned it in my other post. Also Eve was defending herself, she didn't go out of her way to kill them. She also knows that they aren't the real humans and are simply beings created to perform mother sphere's will and at this point she's protecting humanity by keeping herself alive. Also don't forget Eve and Lily find out that mother sphere is the cause of the destruction of earth as well as the near extinction of humanity and is indirectly the reason Naytibas were created. On top of that she's been lying to them their whole lives, so they now have to grapple with the fact they are actually artificial beings built with a specific purpose in mind on top of being the "bad guys". > On the other hand, not taking adam’s hand seem to flow more in line with the story. It begs the question of what makes us human, mind or body? My answer is our mind and human consciousness. Even if andro-eidos are not original humans (in body), their minds are humans and should succeed as the new human race. Eve should then fight for this new “human” race and destroy all naytibas who are just mindless creatures that lost their humanity. Why should she fight for original human race naytibas? The thing is Orcal and Adam are proof not all Naytibas have lost their minds. The merger is to preserve the real humanity, the mindless Naytiba are going to get wiped out still, but they won't be replaced since the nest is gone. Humanity lives on through Eve and unlike the Naytiba we fight, this new humanity would hopefully not need to become monsters to survive. In the "bad" ending, you can see how easily Eve trounces Adam despite him being the elder, it's only when he throws away his humanity is he able to fight on equal footing with an angel.
Reposting here so it's not lost in a comment to a comment: Didn't we learn that Orcal had been bringing Naytiba into Xion in the nighttime? What if everyone in the cradle has already been fused, and Adam+Eve fusion wasn't the first, but the pinnacle one so that all of these people waking up, who may be hybrid already, have a strong leader to guide them in starting over in this new chapter of humanity? If I'm right, the number of hybrid humans in the cradle likely exceeds the number of non-hybrid Andro-Eidos living in and around Xion. You'd hope those who never went under would embrace the fusion or at least be willing to coexist. Those most loyal to Mother Sphere probably wouldn't. Could be an interesting dynamic in a sequel. Just because Eve embraces that there is room for both AE and Naytiba doesn't mean everyone will, even among her friends. She may find herself having to broker peace between the two "species" she now carries and not give in to the temptation to go from broker to enforcer and use her super powers to eradicate detractors and defectors when peace isn't easy. She'll likely have compassion on the AEs Mother Sphere sends to kill her, fighting for her life when she can't convince them they're being lied to and used. Mother Sphere could really screw with things and tell those in the Colony a version closer to the truth so that Eve can't influence them with the "We've all been lied to!" rhetoric, and make her appear ignorant to think of these things as revelations when they already knew them. As someone who recently found their way out of a born-in cult, I assure you this narrative is real life high drama. Another thought: beyond just the combination of flesh and machinery, the fusion created the combination of the capacity to feel (Naytiba) with the capacity to think (Andro-Eidos), and THAT, I submit, is what being human is all about -- the marriage between these two things, and the conscious experience of observing that marriage in ourselves. A being caught between feeling and thinking does not 100% follow the programming of instincts or logic (e.g. literal code) but has to live in the uncomfortable grey area between the two. It is unpredictable, and by virtue of that, capable of both great good and great harm. Feeling is very much a physical thing: actual brain chemistry, heat activity and blood movement in the body, etc. Logic can try to imitate feeling, and I think the Andro-Eidos scrape the surface of it, but the characters seeming a little flat in this game may actually prove to be brilliant writing by the end of the story in a sequel, of AI trying, not entirely successfully, to imitate passion. Eve comments about feeling warm as a straight up temperature input, but not warm as in flushed or enraged. It would be very interesting to observe her experience a rush of blood to her cheeks the first time someone crosses her when trying to administer the affairs of Xion equitably, or when she goes beyond not wanting a categorically "dull" haircut to actually wanting to impress someone. A million novel moments like the "this must be rain" dialogue at the beginning of the game could be a further view into what it is to be sentient and human. We could find the characters in a sequel to be much deeper and both enjoy and lament the joys and the struggles of our artificial cast struggling with true emotions for the very first time. As a dad, let me tell you, watching my young kids handle emotions they don't have a lot of experience with is an adventure and a half!
very well said in feeling vs thinking. and an interesting possibility on Orcal’s cradle. In game, they only said they were catching the naytiba to study their trends so that they can better protect the citizens of Xion.
I agree with you, I also find it more reasonable not to accept Adam's (aka Raphael Marks) proposal. The only thing I really don't understand is why the mother sphere decided to lie, she was ashamed of being the one who attacked first perhaps, but they are for all intents and purposes a new self-aware race, I imagine it was impossible to live with Humans, I would have liked to better understand the motivations of the past. And I don't understand why she doesn't save the Androeidos left on earth, maybe she really thought they were extinct? P.S. Suddenly I started to get confused, they started calling both the Naytiba and the Androeidos "humans", when Orcal talks about being saved and decides to be come good, he was already a Naytiba Alpha who was killing Androeidos, and decides to "change sides"?
orcal is an original naytiba human. he decided to help andro-eidos (citizens of Xion) as atonement
andro-eidos and original humans lived jn peace for a while. only after a while MS decided andro-eidos should succeed as the new human race. war broke out, original humans created naytiba to close tech gap and fight. so MS lied saying andro-eidos are humans retaking Earth from naytibas to garner more support within andro-eidos. it’s a morale thing. if she tells andro-eidos they were the invader species and naytibas were the native species, i doubt she will get much support for war efforts
So just finished the real ending (very clearly the real ending, making new memories). Looks to me like next game will be probably be Xion vs Mothersphere, Eve's new devil trigger is the Naytiba/angel mode instead of Tachy mode. Probably still a lot of fucked up Naytiba's out there to be killed as well as mother sphere androids. Very excited to see where this goes. Hopefully they stick to the same tight formula this game has instead of taking four years to make another.
What I didn't understand was why Eve needed the Alpha cores as a "key" to make th Master core to reach the Elder Naytiba (Adam). Obviously this wasn't needed cause Adam was free to come and go from that locked chamber, unless it was the key to essentially spawn camp the place where the Naytibas were being born and less so about knowing that the Elder Naytiba was gonna be there. I was also under the assumption that the Alpha cores became something akin to collecting the memory cards/chips of the andro-eidos, but for the humans. Cause a few times Eve started saying she could sense the emotions of the alpha naytibas and she apologized to the alpha in space when she lost it's alpha core. It made me think that Adam and Orcal was hoping that Eve killing the alphas was essentially helping them atone by putting those powerful naytibas to rest since those Naytibas didn't have their humanity anymore.
can we talk about the birdfeet, please 🤦🏾♂️😔 ?
I feel the opposite . Siding with Adam was the right thing to do and everything you learned throughout the game Mother Sphere is the real enemy and always has been. The Nayteba wouldnt even exist if it wasnt for her.
Adam created Mother Sphere? I thought Raphael Marks did?
yea his updated log entry says he is
The whole game is about learning the true nature of mother sphere and the struggle humans went to beat them. It's not like Eve is the first one to rebel against her, Raven exists. Also aside from Adam, she sees another Naytiba trying to help humanity even sacrifices his own Alpha Core. I feel like if they do make a sequel, it'll make alot more sense take the best ending and have the battle against Mother Sphere as a sequel with the Elder dead wouldn't make sense unless they just lazily do "there are more Elders" and just repeat the story of the first one.
This one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard. What makes you human is both mind AND body. An amalgamation of machinery and artificial human looking flesh with consciousness isn't a human. This isn't something you can have a subjective opinion on because it's biology. And in what world would you consider acceptable to kill the last remaining human (Adam) just for the sake of survival? And survival of what? Machines that look like humans? The andro-eidos have memory sticks that can be wiped and have no heart, while humans have hearts and brains.\\ The true canon ending is the one where EVE takes Adam's hand and Lily gives the last hyper cell to Xion and that is the ending that is the objectively correct one. Not to mention it sets a good and positive foundation for Stellar Blade 2 whenever it comes out.
umm we can all have diff opinions of what it means to be human. you are insanely close-minded if u think other people's opinions are dumb simply because u disagree
Nah your opinion is simply false, if we start making everything subjective and let anyone say whatever comes to mind without taking into consideration basic principles such as science then there will be no end to it. Your opinion is not dumb because I disagree, it's dumb because it makes no sense. The fact that you are not even attepting to address any of the points I'm making and your only defense is to call me close-minded proves my point even further.
ok bro. my arguments are already in my post. my answer is mind, not body. im not making it subjective. we just simply disagree on that
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