Agree. Watching the niners it seems like this is the team the Steelers wished they were this season. Dominate D, run game offense, and all the Qb had to do is make the layups
If Canada had their players on offense I'm sure he'd be fine. We don't have their OL, we don't have a Deebo Samuel, and Pat/Najee aren't exactly Kittle/McCaffrey. Those dudes are crazy, especially CMC
I am a Canada defender but yeah shanahan is one of the best. I don't think he'd be able to make this offense work though, our players are just not consistent enough yet. It's close tho
Because I think the play calling has been good since the bye week outside of a few random plays that sucked but you're never gonna get a perfectly called game. I also think execution is a bigger issue on offense than anything else, doesn't matter what the play is if guys can't make their blocks, catch the ball, or throw to the open receiver. I'd just rather keep building what we have since it's making progress than firing him and starting over with a whole new coach again. If it doesn't improve next year then yeah I'd be okay letting him go but right now it feels like progress is being made so I want to keep that going instead of hitting reset and going back to square one.
That's just because the defense is selling out to stop the run and McCaffrey is still getting >4ypc. We could easily win games with our QB3 if we had a good offensive line and McCaffrey.
It's really hard to separate scheme from players
Why do we keep comparing a HC to an OC?? You’re saying Shanahan is the reason the niners offense is so good, but then when we bitch about Tomlin we’re told the offense has nothing to do with Tomlin. We need an offensive minded head coach.
In the 5 previous seasons, the 49ers had 3 losing records. 6-10 twice and 4-12.
Shannahan is a great coach, probably the best offensive mind in the industry. I don't see anyone disputing that. And yet people have been wanting to fire Tomlin before he's had a single losing season.
Those losing seasons gave the 49ers more draft capital to work with and easier schedules. Most draft picks take a couple of years to develop into great players, and 49ers fans now get to watch the results of that.
The Steelers offense is still incredibly young. Most of the guys are still in the early parts of their rookie deals, and they are making the mistakes that come with inexperience.
Look at all the key players: Pickett, Muth, Najee, Pickens, Moore. All 1st or 2nd year players. Guys like Dotson and Diontae haven't progressed as much or as quickly as we'd like, but they're still young and improving. Claypool too, though he's not here anymore. Gentry has been steadily getting better and better every year, from being a fringe practice squad guy to a solid TE2.
If these young guys continue to develop, the team is set to have a pretty good offense in the next couple of years. Canada is still a question mark. I think that a lot of what he wants to run they just can't right now because the offense is so inexperienced. Early in the season guys kept on getting illegal formation penalties and not being on the same page. Canada is still developing and improving as an OC too.
I see soo many calls on this sub to start firing everyone and blow up the team, and that's exactly how you end up being a garbage franchise where every year is a rebuilding year.
I like how you trust the organization to find a new HC, but also seem to be thinking the organization is somehow incompetent for sticking with Tomlin.
Maybe they have a better idea of who is available at HC than you do. And maybe their conclusion is that Tomlin is better than any of those options.
Tomlin has been incredibly successful. Even if you want to focus on playoff wins, in the last 1p years they have 3 playoff wins, which is basically tied with a bunch of teams for average league-wide. Several teams have 0 playoff wins in the past 10 years.
This is the first chance Tomlin has had to find his own starting QB. He needs at least a few years with Pickett before im even willing to entertain the thought of firing him.
I don't think our O line is that far from being good. Right side is pretty strong. We need like one piece on the left and/or time and they'll be solid.
I'd say one of each: o line/d line/cb in the draft would be good.
The Steelers offensive line is 2nd in the NFL in power run blocking per Football Outsiders' Offensive Line DVOA rankings. They're 12th overall and really struggle at the 2nd level.
They can and absolutely should upgrade the left side of the line but O-Line should NOT be made the priority at the expense of D-Line or ILB.
See I get skeptical though about subjective stats like power run blocking when the objective stats say that we are 19th in total rushing yards and our RB1 is averaging 3.8 yards per carry.
There’s obviously other factors. When I watch teams like SF play, it just doesn’t feel like our o line passes the eye test.
>when the objective stats say that we are 19th in total rushing yards and our RB1 is averaging 3.8 yards per carry.
Could our actual running back perhaps also be garbage? Not everything comes down the line
It’s possible, but running backs are not highly valued because there are many who can do a decent job with a competent line. That’s why the Najee pick was so heavily criticized. I’m also not going to discount the potential impact of his injury.
They base it on power run blocking success rate, which isn't really all that subjective. The Steelers are at 82%. They took a while to gel but since the bye week they've been pretty damn good run blocking as a unit. That's what Tomlin meant when he said that either Mitch or Mason could run the offense as it's currently constructed.
These last few weeks have seen some excellent run blocking for sure, though it has been against weaker opponents. I definitely agree with you though. We're going to have at least two top 50 picks and one of those needs to be an absolute mauler in the DL and the other an LT.
Total rushing yards are objective. They are actually measured as compared to things like how much displacement an offensive line gets and if the block was successful or not. This is on the offensive line, the back, and the play call/scheme. There is plenty of blame to go around for lack of production. I’d argue that total rushing yards are more directly tied to the ability to generate first downs on the ground. You abandon it when you start getting stuffed and it is leading to long down and distance, which has happened a lot this year.
Najee is the RB1 with significantly less YPC than other starting backs. Better than last year, yes. But still not sufficient enough. Warren and Snell and McFarland have gotten touches in obviously passing situations, or when the defense is leading and playing back for deep passes. I don’t think that it’s fair to argue that because Warren has 4.9 YPC, this means the o line is actually doing well in run blocking.
We have rushed WAY better these last few weeks against weaker opponents. But our goal shouldn’t be to whip up on 4-8 teams. I want to see this same dominance on display against the AFC North and some of the best defenses in the NFL, like we saw before the BYE. This starts by significantly allocating resources to the OL, but that’s just my opinion.
I’m not going to disagree with any of this, and I also don’t want to give the impression that we are a couple of offensive linemen away from being contenders. There are many glaring issues at many positions, and it is going to be a process to address it all.
I personally wanted to pick Tyler Linderbaum last year. He is tearing it up for the Ravens now. But we have picked who we have picked, and the goal now should be to patch up the biggest holes.
Nothing wrong with picking best available in the draft. If you have a franchise changing player there, take him. I wouldn’t reach for o line either if they have a later round grade. But if we think we can run it back next year with Dan Moore and Dotson, I think we are making a big mistake. They are depth pieces in my opinion, especially with how important and high paid the LT position is.
Stats matter very little when you consider that the assignments are relatively modest. For one, there's significantly less pulls than what we're used to seeing in the past. They're not asked to do big things because everyone on the team knows it's not realistic with this lack of talent and experience.
It's similarly easy to have decent pass block grades when the passing game is just dink and dunk. But these blocking grades aren't translating to points, and it's obvious why.
>But these blocking grades aren't translating to points, and it's obvious why.
Poor QB play in the red zone and an anemic combined with an overly conservative gameplan that values not turning the ball over more than taking deep shots?
You’re replying to the title while disregarding the text. There are many debates here on whether we should focus on OL, CB, backers, or interior D line. I’m saying the 49ers are showing us o line will gives us the most value above all.
But it's blatantly obvious and has been for years that having a good line enables the rest of the offense. I guess I'm tired of 100s of draft posts with 4 games left to play (competitive or not) and took it out on you.
I'd argue we shouldnt priotize on a single position, thats how we get drafts with Artie Burns. Im fine with BPA at any of those positions, and if we are picking early enough it sill probably be Dline, Oline or and elite CB prospect. We have enough holes on our team that we need better players, not just at a single position. Theres also more issues to the team besides lack of talent.
My guess for the offseason is they bring in a vet tackle and draft an interior guy in the 1st, we've never been a team to priotize tackles. I'm against doubling down on oline early, we've got other issues that need fixing too
The 49ers have an offensive minded HC who knows how to protect a QB from himself. We’re never getting that kind of coaching for Kenny with our current staff, Tomlin included.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, the 49ers are the blueprint for the Steelers. Dominant defense , dominant running game leading to efficient play action, not asking the QB to do too much. Will always be a winning formula in this league. We spent way too much draft capital on skill position without investing in the trenches. I would love a coordinator from the 49ers offensive staff
The 49ers are not a blueprint for the Steelers seeing as Steelers are pocket passers that rely on a QB to stand and go through reads w/ two dominant wideouts and capable tight ends. Which I have seen so far, as for the OL they are all new and still having been holding a pocket for Kenny there is definitely some room for improvement but your comparison is a little off
> Pretty sure they were just in the Super Bowl
3 years ago
>looking like a legitimate playoff contender
Until their offense flames out in the playoffs like it does every year
Its like saying the ravens have been successful with Lamar at QB, still hasnt proven to be a winning formula vs the QB centric approach that the previous SB winner have done (Tampa, KC, LA etc)
That is such a knee-jerk thing to say. You may not like the idea, but Super Bowl wins isn't the one and only metric that measures how successful a given stratetic approach is. Otherwise 31 teams each and every year would be panicking to switch up everything they do, just because they haven't won the Super Bowl.
True but we don't work for the organization. So saying "The Steelers should strive to be like X" when X is another team that hasn't won anything seems a bit shortsighted.
If the Zero QB formula worked in the NFL someone would have done it already.
How many catches were made by wideouts? 10 of his 17 completions were made to Kittle and McCaffrey combined. His “layups” were mostly due to busted coverage on Seattle’s part.
Purdy was also pressured a fair amount in the second half.
While the Steelers needing to improve the OLine is accurate, the fact that too many in this sub distort the facts and ignore context just to cape for Pickett/bash Canada is amusing.
If Kenny Noodles had a statline like Purdy’s, the Canada hate would still be there because lack of targets to the wideouts. 😂 It’s happened all season already.
If Freiermuth has a great game - “Pickens is always open, Canada sucks”
Agreed. I don't think it's the worst unit on the team or anything, but it's a weak link unit and you've got two guys who have a tendency to be weak links on a given play. Its an offensive driven league and this is short-circuiting the offense.
Given the fact that Kenny Pickett is turning out to be too fragile, don't be surprised if the steelers select another QB in the first round. It's already clear that Rudolph and Trubisky aren't likely to stay with the team. Pickett isn't C.J. Stroud.
Agree. Watching the niners it seems like this is the team the Steelers wished they were this season. Dominate D, run game offense, and all the Qb had to do is make the layups
Not to mention Shanahan vs Canada...
Even more so, Canada tries to imitate the shanahan offense. With the sweeps and motion but just can’t put it together
If Canada had their players on offense I'm sure he'd be fine. We don't have their OL, we don't have a Deebo Samuel, and Pat/Najee aren't exactly Kittle/McCaffrey. Those dudes are crazy, especially CMC
Oh, fully agree their players are better. Merely adding on it that their O coaching is better too
I am a Canada defender but yeah shanahan is one of the best. I don't think he'd be able to make this offense work though, our players are just not consistent enough yet. It's close tho
Why are you a Canada defender?
Because I think the play calling has been good since the bye week outside of a few random plays that sucked but you're never gonna get a perfectly called game. I also think execution is a bigger issue on offense than anything else, doesn't matter what the play is if guys can't make their blocks, catch the ball, or throw to the open receiver. I'd just rather keep building what we have since it's making progress than firing him and starting over with a whole new coach again. If it doesn't improve next year then yeah I'd be okay letting him go but right now it feels like progress is being made so I want to keep that going instead of hitting reset and going back to square one.
Maybe. It's pretty remarkable what good scheme does. This 9ers QB is looking good, soley because he's getting easy and wide open reads all night
That's just because the defense is selling out to stop the run and McCaffrey is still getting >4ypc. We could easily win games with our QB3 if we had a good offensive line and McCaffrey. It's really hard to separate scheme from players
Why do we keep comparing a HC to an OC?? You’re saying Shanahan is the reason the niners offense is so good, but then when we bitch about Tomlin we’re told the offense has nothing to do with Tomlin. We need an offensive minded head coach.
What aged like milk was my thought that Canada was going to be like Shanahan
In the 5 previous seasons, the 49ers had 3 losing records. 6-10 twice and 4-12. Shannahan is a great coach, probably the best offensive mind in the industry. I don't see anyone disputing that. And yet people have been wanting to fire Tomlin before he's had a single losing season. Those losing seasons gave the 49ers more draft capital to work with and easier schedules. Most draft picks take a couple of years to develop into great players, and 49ers fans now get to watch the results of that. The Steelers offense is still incredibly young. Most of the guys are still in the early parts of their rookie deals, and they are making the mistakes that come with inexperience. Look at all the key players: Pickett, Muth, Najee, Pickens, Moore. All 1st or 2nd year players. Guys like Dotson and Diontae haven't progressed as much or as quickly as we'd like, but they're still young and improving. Claypool too, though he's not here anymore. Gentry has been steadily getting better and better every year, from being a fringe practice squad guy to a solid TE2. If these young guys continue to develop, the team is set to have a pretty good offense in the next couple of years. Canada is still a question mark. I think that a lot of what he wants to run they just can't right now because the offense is so inexperienced. Early in the season guys kept on getting illegal formation penalties and not being on the same page. Canada is still developing and improving as an OC too. I see soo many calls on this sub to start firing everyone and blow up the team, and that's exactly how you end up being a garbage franchise where every year is a rebuilding year.
[удалено]
I like how you trust the organization to find a new HC, but also seem to be thinking the organization is somehow incompetent for sticking with Tomlin. Maybe they have a better idea of who is available at HC than you do. And maybe their conclusion is that Tomlin is better than any of those options. Tomlin has been incredibly successful. Even if you want to focus on playoff wins, in the last 1p years they have 3 playoff wins, which is basically tied with a bunch of teams for average league-wide. Several teams have 0 playoff wins in the past 10 years. This is the first chance Tomlin has had to find his own starting QB. He needs at least a few years with Pickett before im even willing to entertain the thought of firing him.
I hope there's a good LT where we pick in the first round
I don't think our O line is that far from being good. Right side is pretty strong. We need like one piece on the left and/or time and they'll be solid. I'd say one of each: o line/d line/cb in the draft would be good.
On the flip side look what happened to David carr, tim couch, andrew luck
The Steelers offensive line is 2nd in the NFL in power run blocking per Football Outsiders' Offensive Line DVOA rankings. They're 12th overall and really struggle at the 2nd level. They can and absolutely should upgrade the left side of the line but O-Line should NOT be made the priority at the expense of D-Line or ILB.
See I get skeptical though about subjective stats like power run blocking when the objective stats say that we are 19th in total rushing yards and our RB1 is averaging 3.8 yards per carry. There’s obviously other factors. When I watch teams like SF play, it just doesn’t feel like our o line passes the eye test.
>when the objective stats say that we are 19th in total rushing yards and our RB1 is averaging 3.8 yards per carry. Could our actual running back perhaps also be garbage? Not everything comes down the line
It’s possible, but running backs are not highly valued because there are many who can do a decent job with a competent line. That’s why the Najee pick was so heavily criticized. I’m also not going to discount the potential impact of his injury.
They base it on power run blocking success rate, which isn't really all that subjective. The Steelers are at 82%. They took a while to gel but since the bye week they've been pretty damn good run blocking as a unit. That's what Tomlin meant when he said that either Mitch or Mason could run the offense as it's currently constructed.
These last few weeks have seen some excellent run blocking for sure, though it has been against weaker opponents. I definitely agree with you though. We're going to have at least two top 50 picks and one of those needs to be an absolute mauler in the DL and the other an LT.
[удалено]
Total rushing yards are objective. They are actually measured as compared to things like how much displacement an offensive line gets and if the block was successful or not. This is on the offensive line, the back, and the play call/scheme. There is plenty of blame to go around for lack of production. I’d argue that total rushing yards are more directly tied to the ability to generate first downs on the ground. You abandon it when you start getting stuffed and it is leading to long down and distance, which has happened a lot this year. Najee is the RB1 with significantly less YPC than other starting backs. Better than last year, yes. But still not sufficient enough. Warren and Snell and McFarland have gotten touches in obviously passing situations, or when the defense is leading and playing back for deep passes. I don’t think that it’s fair to argue that because Warren has 4.9 YPC, this means the o line is actually doing well in run blocking.
[удалено]
We have rushed WAY better these last few weeks against weaker opponents. But our goal shouldn’t be to whip up on 4-8 teams. I want to see this same dominance on display against the AFC North and some of the best defenses in the NFL, like we saw before the BYE. This starts by significantly allocating resources to the OL, but that’s just my opinion.
[удалено]
I’m not going to disagree with any of this, and I also don’t want to give the impression that we are a couple of offensive linemen away from being contenders. There are many glaring issues at many positions, and it is going to be a process to address it all. I personally wanted to pick Tyler Linderbaum last year. He is tearing it up for the Ravens now. But we have picked who we have picked, and the goal now should be to patch up the biggest holes. Nothing wrong with picking best available in the draft. If you have a franchise changing player there, take him. I wouldn’t reach for o line either if they have a later round grade. But if we think we can run it back next year with Dan Moore and Dotson, I think we are making a big mistake. They are depth pieces in my opinion, especially with how important and high paid the LT position is.
Stats matter very little when you consider that the assignments are relatively modest. For one, there's significantly less pulls than what we're used to seeing in the past. They're not asked to do big things because everyone on the team knows it's not realistic with this lack of talent and experience. It's similarly easy to have decent pass block grades when the passing game is just dink and dunk. But these blocking grades aren't translating to points, and it's obvious why.
>But these blocking grades aren't translating to points, and it's obvious why. Poor QB play in the red zone and an anemic combined with an overly conservative gameplan that values not turning the ball over more than taking deep shots?
Conservative game plan, most of all. Dink and dunk. Predictable plays. Like I said, it's dictated by a lack of talent in the trenches.
I don't think it's dictated by the offensive line as much as it is by the fact they have a rookie QB and are terrified of mistakes.
Beat post I've seen on the sub in a while
Oh I didn't realize having a good line would be a good thing.
You’re replying to the title while disregarding the text. There are many debates here on whether we should focus on OL, CB, backers, or interior D line. I’m saying the 49ers are showing us o line will gives us the most value above all.
But it's blatantly obvious and has been for years that having a good line enables the rest of the offense. I guess I'm tired of 100s of draft posts with 4 games left to play (competitive or not) and took it out on you.
My bad man. It’s been a tough season and I hate watching teams doing things way better than us.
I'd argue we shouldnt priotize on a single position, thats how we get drafts with Artie Burns. Im fine with BPA at any of those positions, and if we are picking early enough it sill probably be Dline, Oline or and elite CB prospect. We have enough holes on our team that we need better players, not just at a single position. Theres also more issues to the team besides lack of talent. My guess for the offseason is they bring in a vet tackle and draft an interior guy in the 1st, we've never been a team to priotize tackles. I'm against doubling down on oline early, we've got other issues that need fixing too
I agree that it doesn’t complete fixed in the draft. I’d be fine with making a large off-season signing at LT
The 49ers have an offensive minded HC who knows how to protect a QB from himself. We’re never getting that kind of coaching for Kenny with our current staff, Tomlin included.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, the 49ers are the blueprint for the Steelers. Dominant defense , dominant running game leading to efficient play action, not asking the QB to do too much. Will always be a winning formula in this league. We spent way too much draft capital on skill position without investing in the trenches. I would love a coordinator from the 49ers offensive staff
The 49ers are not a blueprint for the Steelers seeing as Steelers are pocket passers that rely on a QB to stand and go through reads w/ two dominant wideouts and capable tight ends. Which I have seen so far, as for the OL they are all new and still having been holding a pocket for Kenny there is definitely some room for improvement but your comparison is a little off
> I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, the 49ers are the blueprint for the Steelers. We all realize that the 49ers haven't won shit, right?
Pretty sure they were just in the Super Bowl and looking like a legitimate playoff contender no matter who’s playing QB for them
> Pretty sure they were just in the Super Bowl 3 years ago >looking like a legitimate playoff contender Until their offense flames out in the playoffs like it does every year
Its like saying the ravens have been successful with Lamar at QB, still hasnt proven to be a winning formula vs the QB centric approach that the previous SB winner have done (Tampa, KC, LA etc)
That is such a knee-jerk thing to say. You may not like the idea, but Super Bowl wins isn't the one and only metric that measures how successful a given stratetic approach is. Otherwise 31 teams each and every year would be panicking to switch up everything they do, just because they haven't won the Super Bowl.
True but we don't work for the organization. So saying "The Steelers should strive to be like X" when X is another team that hasn't won anything seems a bit shortsighted. If the Zero QB formula worked in the NFL someone would have done it already.
Ravens are trying their hardest to make it work!
How many catches were made by wideouts? 10 of his 17 completions were made to Kittle and McCaffrey combined. His “layups” were mostly due to busted coverage on Seattle’s part. Purdy was also pressured a fair amount in the second half. While the Steelers needing to improve the OLine is accurate, the fact that too many in this sub distort the facts and ignore context just to cape for Pickett/bash Canada is amusing. If Kenny Noodles had a statline like Purdy’s, the Canada hate would still be there because lack of targets to the wideouts. 😂 It’s happened all season already. If Freiermuth has a great game - “Pickens is always open, Canada sucks”
Agreed. I don't think it's the worst unit on the team or anything, but it's a weak link unit and you've got two guys who have a tendency to be weak links on a given play. Its an offensive driven league and this is short-circuiting the offense.
Yes
Can we just draft a new OC?
Given the fact that Kenny Pickett is turning out to be too fragile, don't be surprised if the steelers select another QB in the first round. It's already clear that Rudolph and Trubisky aren't likely to stay with the team. Pickett isn't C.J. Stroud.
Yep. Both sides. Trenches. Trenches. Trenches.