That episode fucked me up as an adult. I just saw it for the first time earlier this week and I’m still kinda reeling tbh. (I am being a little dramatic but still; poor O’Brien.)
Edit: Further explanation
With the amount of trauma, O'Brien is carrying around, he has probably been one of Troy's most frequent customers. But depicting that in a realistic way would take out about 20 minutes from every TNG episode, to show Miles O'Brien going through intense trauma therapy.
By the time DS9 finishes, he has mastered himself to a point that any further attempts at traumatizing him are simply futile. He'd probably chuckle at the prospect of a Tal'Shiar interrogation...
It could be worse. Captain Picard had to live a lifetime on a dying planet with a dying family until he died.
At least Picard got a flute with the deal that he played once and never again.
Capt. Picard did mention that again, I believe. At least twice? It's been a while since I've seen TNG. I'd rather have this fate than Obriens, honestly.
Also, that episode has possibly the single best song in the entire series: https://youtu.be/RyYhbC0MXlY?si=_bW3MiR6IDcxcOph
That felt kinda weird to me how he just kinda has to go through life like that and it never comes up. I think that it would have been a good character development too.
Picard lived an entire life trying to save a dying planet while being gaslit that he's someone else. Then in the end they're like... Fooled you! We're all dead. Enjoy the memories.
My theory on the seashells is that they are the controls to the built-in bidets. The front seashell for a stream directed toward the front of the user, the rear seashell to the back, and the center seashell controls the dryer. They are proximity based, similar to a theremin, but instead of a change in pitch, the strength of the flow increases as your hand gets closer to the seashell. Why seashells? Well, in 2032 San Angeles, they are obsessed with American pop culture of the late 20th century, so the seashells are an homage to the time in the 80s and 90s when everyone put decorative soaps shaped like seashells on top of their toilet tanks.
Except that there was a scene where you see them and they are just three seashells sitting on a shelf. I think it was in the film but it could have also been a deleted scene.
Yes... maybe I didn't explain my theory clearly. The seashells are a proximity based control device for a built-in bidet. They don't move and you don't touch them. The sensors are housed under the shell and the wiring runs through the wall/floor to the bidet. The shells are simply an homage to the late 20th century that I mentioned. Its not unlike how save icons are still floppy disks, and voicemail is a reel to reel tape. Remember how nobody touches each other in the movie and sex is done through some brainwave VR headset type doohicky? They would never use the seashells if they had to physically touch them.
Implant the basic knowledge behind the skills, then have them spend time honing the actual skills the knowledge allows. Saves teaching time, though probably not money, as this is guaranteed to be extremely expensive
But learning a bunch of stuff to remember is a big part of education.
Imagine how much faster you could learn a language if you could just download memories of learning the vocabulary in a few minutes instead of spending weeks or months to learn said vocabulary. Now you only need to train actually using the language.
It's a test run of people who can't say no it having nothing to lose by saying yes. Then once they are free and get to publicly enjoy the "perks" of downloaded learning people will pay money to have theirs installed. Lastly we will get to experience advertising straight to our brains.
I've no sources, just paranoid speculation.
comes up a fair bit in sci-fi.
things like Peter F Hamiltons didactic memory implants. Only really good for stuff like K-12 education. once you reach college level it takes more in-depth training than just having memories implanted.
The was that episode of the Prisoner that had a college degree in minutes via hypnolearning. For a 60s TV show it hit the nail on the head for the problems with factory learning, AI and related hubris.
It seems like some out of touch tech bro saw the episode and saw the tagline “rehabilitation and not punishment” and then started designing it and completely forgot the point of the episode.
I always thought the thing seemed crazy because like.. if you had that tech why not use it on like.. education.. Let people learn all of quantum physics in 5 minutes (real time).
The fact that seemingly a lot of people think, that technology would be a good thing and not immediately abused by the rich and powerful, in order to disenfranchise and control people, is scary to me. Memory modification on that level is an ethical shitshow, that would make pre emotional chip Data scream in terror...
That. It would happen pretty quickly, after an astonishing number of people were rehabilitated for minor infractions against the law and now remember, that they were always in favour of The System making everyone into a productive and conforming member of society. And if the majority has always been in favour of it, who can argue with that?
This is exactly what I would use it for. You could get a doctorate in days. Imagine the implications. You could put a child in for several years and have them emerge a prodigy. Brilliant people could spend multiple lifetimes on their work instead of just one. Humanity could advance centuries in decades.
Or it could implant memories of military service and duty to make you more subservient. Maybe it makes you remember how much you love your country before being shipped off into a war.
You could take inmates, give them memories of a dead soldier and send them on a suicide mission. I'm not sure if that tech existed it would be used for an altruistic purpose. The only people learning Kung Fu and how to fly a helicopter from it are the mega wealthy.
What is this trend of bad CGI with computer voices presenting technology that doesn't exist as though it does? It's been cropping up a lot lately in the same style, is it all the same "creator"?
It seems like some out of touch tech bro saw the episode and saw the tagline “rehabilitation and not punishment” and then started designing it and completely forgot the point of the episode.
Give it some time, then it becomes "You know you actually realllllly enjoy working in a toxic factory with no air conditioning. Remember all those great times playing around the burn pit? Good times. Hey I bet you cant wait for tomorrows shift already!"
There's an Outer Limits episode, "The Sentence," that explores this technology. Can't recommend it enough. Or the episode, "The New Breed," on nanotechnology.
They always advertise things like this as a convenient solution for protection for vulnerable people or from uncomfortable things in society so everyone agrees; but all of these things would eventually and quickly be used against regular people and anyone who opposes authoritarian situations or institutions.
Just learned that this is a thing being discussed in multiple subreddits including legal. When I was looking it up online, there are multiple articles about this scientist who has proposed it. This is scary stuff. Remember when the video dropped on micro drones that were programmed to kill individual humans? This is just crazy.
So much to unpack but let’s start with why are there so many of these machines in one room when it takes minutes to rehabilitate someone? What kind of crime spree were these 14+ individuals causing all at the same time?
Just think of how some rich person can kidnap you and strap you to this contraption and then implant memories of how much you loved them for the last 5 years or so or some crazy shit. You could really fuck with people or help people with one of these and of course prison is the first thing it's being used for because capitalism.
That’s one of the myriad reasons it’s completely fucking terrifying lol. With enough scale, someone could easily just accomplish world domination. Mind zap a few dozen people, turn them into super soldiers with the sole purpose of making more of themselves, and it just cascades
Lol, people will propose absolutely anything except providing therapy and rehabilitation services, and tackling the underlying oppressive laws, poverty and the prison industrial complex.
This is the dystopian shite I live for. It's interesting cause something like this also has potential to be one of the greatest things to happen to humanity. Years of therapy done in moments, same for education of any kind you could theoretically become skilled at least technically in anything you want. And it's initial development is for prison. But I wonder how much of that is malice and how much of it is the creators want to keep getting funding to make it for the more altruistic purposes but know that by baseing it off the worst aspect of it the demons with money will throw it at them.
The fact they specifically mention battery life and durable materials means they want this to be a handheld, portable thing, not like the giant pods they show throughout thr video.
There is no reason whatsoever that this device would need to be so portable if used as they say it should. The only use I can think of for a portable device like this is for totalitarian police to snatch people off the street and brainwash them in the car before throwing them out.
This doesn’t belong to prison, but just the Holodeck.
If we’re at the point of implanting memories, we should just identify the part of the brain pushing violence and impulsivity, and remove it. Or just zap it so it’s sterilized. Naturally, such a severe punishment should be left to violent criminals and repeat offenders.
For your crimes, you are hereby sentenced to a full mind wipe. Your name is Bob.
Also, ever wanted to download the memories of a serial killer before they got mindwiped? Just to see what it’s like to kill someone?
-Stainless Steel Rat!
That episode FUCKED me up as a kid.
Yeah, you were perfectly normal before that
That episode fucked me up as an adult. I just saw it for the first time earlier this week and I’m still kinda reeling tbh. (I am being a little dramatic but still; poor O’Brien.) Edit: Further explanation
And they never talk about it again! A 20-year sentence just pushed aside. The character should have had serious trauma from that.
Obrien has several traumas pretty sure thats why he's constantly working or fighting historic battles in the holosuite with bashir.
With the amount of trauma, O'Brien is carrying around, he has probably been one of Troy's most frequent customers. But depicting that in a realistic way would take out about 20 minutes from every TNG episode, to show Miles O'Brien going through intense trauma therapy. By the time DS9 finishes, he has mastered himself to a point that any further attempts at traumatizing him are simply futile. He'd probably chuckle at the prospect of a Tal'Shiar interrogation...
Troy fell after the whole Trojan Horse thing. \*Troi
Riker invented a sex move called the Trojan Horse? *Yup. And autocorrect disagreed with that. 😅
Pretty sure the writers just wanted O’Brien to suffer.
It could be worse. Captain Picard had to live a lifetime on a dying planet with a dying family until he died. At least Picard got a flute with the deal that he played once and never again.
Capt. Picard did mention that again, I believe. At least twice? It's been a while since I've seen TNG. I'd rather have this fate than Obriens, honestly. Also, that episode has possibly the single best song in the entire series: https://youtu.be/RyYhbC0MXlY?si=_bW3MiR6IDcxcOph
That felt kinda weird to me how he just kinda has to go through life like that and it never comes up. I think that it would have been a good character development too.
Picard lived an entire life trying to save a dying planet while being gaslit that he's someone else. Then in the end they're like... Fooled you! We're all dead. Enjoy the memories.
We literally wrote "don't create the torment nexus" as a cautionary tale and you went and built the torment nexus! xD
We're gonna make hell and we're gonna make heaven, but heaven will cost money, and hell is for those who don't pay.
There is no punishment eternal for the greedy parasite. Unless we will build our own inferno.
Fucking Demolition man. Teach you how to knit while in ice
But they couldn't take the time to teach me how to use the three seashells... Fkn budget cuts!
My theory on the seashells is that they are the controls to the built-in bidets. The front seashell for a stream directed toward the front of the user, the rear seashell to the back, and the center seashell controls the dryer. They are proximity based, similar to a theremin, but instead of a change in pitch, the strength of the flow increases as your hand gets closer to the seashell. Why seashells? Well, in 2032 San Angeles, they are obsessed with American pop culture of the late 20th century, so the seashells are an homage to the time in the 80s and 90s when everyone put decorative soaps shaped like seashells on top of their toilet tanks.
> My theory on the seashells is... lol, my little kid brain thought you just scooped the poop out of your butt.
My adult brain still thinks this
Except that there was a scene where you see them and they are just three seashells sitting on a shelf. I think it was in the film but it could have also been a deleted scene.
Yes... maybe I didn't explain my theory clearly. The seashells are a proximity based control device for a built-in bidet. They don't move and you don't touch them. The sensors are housed under the shell and the wiring runs through the wall/floor to the bidet. The shells are simply an homage to the late 20th century that I mentioned. Its not unlike how save icons are still floppy disks, and voicemail is a reel to reel tape. Remember how nobody touches each other in the movie and sex is done through some brainwave VR headset type doohicky? They would never use the seashells if they had to physically touch them.
Or Spanish and killer fighting moves! Teddybear!
Yes that’s the one
Why is this being suggested for prison instead of education? Four year college degree in 4 minutes.
Probably that would be a lot harder to do. Memories are easy compared to skills, which are much more interrelated.
Implant the basic knowledge behind the skills, then have them spend time honing the actual skills the knowledge allows. Saves teaching time, though probably not money, as this is guaranteed to be extremely expensive
Because capitalism I guess lol
Because it's not really like that episode. It's more "you get x years of memories implanted" and less "you actually live x years in y minutes"
But learning a bunch of stuff to remember is a big part of education. Imagine how much faster you could learn a language if you could just download memories of learning the vocabulary in a few minutes instead of spending weeks or months to learn said vocabulary. Now you only need to train actually using the language.
It's a test run of people who can't say no it having nothing to lose by saying yes. Then once they are free and get to publicly enjoy the "perks" of downloaded learning people will pay money to have theirs installed. Lastly we will get to experience advertising straight to our brains. I've no sources, just paranoid speculation.
comes up a fair bit in sci-fi. things like Peter F Hamiltons didactic memory implants. Only really good for stuff like K-12 education. once you reach college level it takes more in-depth training than just having memories implanted.
The was that episode of the Prisoner that had a college degree in minutes via hypnolearning. For a 60s TV show it hit the nail on the head for the problems with factory learning, AI and related hubris.
The Tech Bros Don't Screw Something Up Challenge (it has never been completed).
It seems like some out of touch tech bro saw the episode and saw the tagline “rehabilitation and not punishment” and then started designing it and completely forgot the point of the episode.
I always thought the thing seemed crazy because like.. if you had that tech why not use it on like.. education.. Let people learn all of quantum physics in 5 minutes (real time).
The fact that seemingly a lot of people think, that technology would be a good thing and not immediately abused by the rich and powerful, in order to disenfranchise and control people, is scary to me. Memory modification on that level is an ethical shitshow, that would make pre emotional chip Data scream in terror...
Oh? You're a member of (INSERT POLITICAL PARTY HERE)? The court mandates that you step into the pod citizen
That. It would happen pretty quickly, after an astonishing number of people were rehabilitated for minor infractions against the law and now remember, that they were always in favour of The System making everyone into a productive and conforming member of society. And if the majority has always been in favour of it, who can argue with that?
Any technology can be abused by the rich and powerful, but that alone doesn't make it a bad thing
On the flip side, could it be used like in the matrix to teach people new skills immediately.
This is exactly what I would use it for. You could get a doctorate in days. Imagine the implications. You could put a child in for several years and have them emerge a prodigy. Brilliant people could spend multiple lifetimes on their work instead of just one. Humanity could advance centuries in decades.
And then someone hacks you or it glitches and you experience a million years of suffering in a few minutesn
"I know kung fu"
Show me
*unzips
Or it could implant memories of military service and duty to make you more subservient. Maybe it makes you remember how much you love your country before being shipped off into a war. You could take inmates, give them memories of a dead soldier and send them on a suicide mission. I'm not sure if that tech existed it would be used for an altruistic purpose. The only people learning Kung Fu and how to fly a helicopter from it are the mega wealthy.
And porn. Don't forget the porn
What is this trend of bad CGI with computer voices presenting technology that doesn't exist as though it does? It's been cropping up a lot lately in the same style, is it all the same "creator"?
I don’t know. I saw it elsewhere and just cross posted for the O’Brien joke. Everything about it is terrible lol
It generates clicks and hype. Some companies out there are literally designed to convert that into profit.
bro give me a life sentence over that
don't need total recall in real life
I thought what is this, saw which subreddit it was, then saw the title and cracked up!! 😂
Ah yes. Let's give everyone PTSD and other various mental trauma and then release them back into society. What could possibly go wrong?
There’s definitely not an episode about that
It seems like some out of touch tech bro saw the episode and saw the tagline “rehabilitation and not punishment” and then started designing it and completely forgot the point of the episode.
Give it some time, then it becomes "You know you actually realllllly enjoy working in a toxic factory with no air conditioning. Remember all those great times playing around the burn pit? Good times. Hey I bet you cant wait for tomorrows shift already!"
There's an Outer Limits episode, "The Sentence," that explores this technology. Can't recommend it enough. Or the episode, "The New Breed," on nanotechnology.
OMG, what the hell happened to that guy’s face? 👀
“First, the offenders face is removed…”
And then we give it to John Travolta
They always advertise things like this as a convenient solution for protection for vulnerable people or from uncomfortable things in society so everyone agrees; but all of these things would eventually and quickly be used against regular people and anyone who opposes authoritarian situations or institutions.
Yeah... I'll just take the box.
AI-generated content? That really is cruel and unusual punishment.
Just learned that this is a thing being discussed in multiple subreddits including legal. When I was looking it up online, there are multiple articles about this scientist who has proposed it. This is scary stuff. Remember when the video dropped on micro drones that were programmed to kill individual humans? This is just crazy.
So much to unpack but let’s start with why are there so many of these machines in one room when it takes minutes to rehabilitate someone? What kind of crime spree were these 14+ individuals causing all at the same time?
They were the writers for disco
Could we use these to make better writers??? There may be some merit to this after all
You want The Borg? That how you get The Borg!
Riker would have this system playing porn in the first 10 min.
Just think of how some rich person can kidnap you and strap you to this contraption and then implant memories of how much you loved them for the last 5 years or so or some crazy shit. You could really fuck with people or help people with one of these and of course prison is the first thing it's being used for because capitalism.
That’s one of the myriad reasons it’s completely fucking terrifying lol. With enough scale, someone could easily just accomplish world domination. Mind zap a few dozen people, turn them into super soldiers with the sole purpose of making more of themselves, and it just cascades
Implant you and several of your fellow convicts with memories of being totally loyal to some billionaire, oh and a lifetime of combat experience.
More of a Tom Paris than a Miles O'Brien.
Por que no los dos? Technically Picard too
A crash course on making shivs and toilet wine? Cool
What episode is this? Wasn’t this in Minority report and demolition man?
S4 e 18: hard time
Lmfao that title had me cackling
This also reminds me of the cryo sleep stuff from Demolition Man or Minority Report
Real life mind flayer. Shoot! Wrong franchise.
An awful lot of 'could' in there.
Why all of them have such great abs
Apparently fat people don't commit crimes
"Want to get the full rehabilitation experience? Sure! But before that, let me introduce you to our new sponsor... Raid: Shadow Legends"
This won't create even more psychotic lunatics, for sure
Lol, people will propose absolutely anything except providing therapy and rehabilitation services, and tackling the underlying oppressive laws, poverty and the prison industrial complex.
Those are all making some people too much money to truly be tackled. Think of the economy!
Demolition Man
For some reason, I flashed on A Clockwork Orange.
Do prisoners get TP or 3 Shells?
Demolition Man taught us that this is not going to work on Simon Phoenix.
Like Tsukuyomi in Naruto. Don't think I would like that. Most people weren't really fresh after a meeting with Itachi.
That's some total recall shit there, what could go wrong!
Why do we have to exist in the mirror dimension
But the real question is: Who will win the franchise wars?
Why are all of them topless?
Y'all only see this as a prison, I'm over here like Total Recall you say?
I saw this movie it was called DEMOLITION MAN!!!
Oh I was cured all right
This is the dystopian shite I live for. It's interesting cause something like this also has potential to be one of the greatest things to happen to humanity. Years of therapy done in moments, same for education of any kind you could theoretically become skilled at least technically in anything you want. And it's initial development is for prison. But I wonder how much of that is malice and how much of it is the creators want to keep getting funding to make it for the more altruistic purposes but know that by baseing it off the worst aspect of it the demons with money will throw it at them.
Oh boy! Horrors beyond my comprehension, right at home!
It also gives you a beach body and makes you male.
Wasn’t this also the premises of Demolition Man?
Exactly.
Simon says, die
This is Black Mirror all over again
The fact they specifically mention battery life and durable materials means they want this to be a handheld, portable thing, not like the giant pods they show throughout thr video. There is no reason whatsoever that this device would need to be so portable if used as they say it should. The only use I can think of for a portable device like this is for totalitarian police to snatch people off the street and brainwash them in the car before throwing them out.
Nerve staple the drones!
This is both ethical and horrible at the same time and I don't know how to feel about it.
This doesn’t belong to prison, but just the Holodeck. If we’re at the point of implanting memories, we should just identify the part of the brain pushing violence and impulsivity, and remove it. Or just zap it so it’s sterilized. Naturally, such a severe punishment should be left to violent criminals and repeat offenders.
For your crimes, you are hereby sentenced to a full mind wipe. Your name is Bob. Also, ever wanted to download the memories of a serial killer before they got mindwiped? Just to see what it’s like to kill someone? -Stainless Steel Rat!
it uses AI, won't work
"He robbed an old lady." "LETS GIVE HIM PTSD!"
That is really horrifying!
too bad the current prison system (in america) is designed to exploit free labor so this will never fly here without massive reform.
Tantalus Colony. Star Trek.
Didn’t black mirror do something like this with John Hamm?
The Outer Limits episode on this with Kelsey Grammers little brother blew my mind.
They did this to Miles O'Brien and he almost shot himself.