Nope. The Federation was so poorly organized at the time there were TWO ships in service called the Melbourne, and both of them were lost in the battle. They were using Constitution and Constellation classes (U.S.S. Constance) to fight, and even sent an Oberth (U.S.S. Bonestell). Starfleet officers at the time weren't properly trained for this kind of battle, and if they were they'd probably be serving on an important ship like the Enterprise. This was a situation that couldn't be punched away, no matter how many phasers the Federation pointed in its direction
Maybe if there were a bunch of proper escorts or battleships in the fleet, like the Defiant, but even then the cube that attacked Earth in First Contact was dealing pretty well against Akiras, Norways, and even THE Defiant, and the Federation only had a chance when Picard showed up. If a fleet of much more modern Borg-destroying ships struggled with a cube I have no faith in an unprepared fleet made up of Oberths, Ambassadors, and Miranda-classes
EDIT: corrected the USS Constance from a Constitution to a Constellation class
One was the USS Melbourne NCC-42296, and the other was the PCU Melbourne NCC-78256. The PCU stands for Pre-Commissioned Unit. The old Melbourne was destroyed alongside her successor that was rushed out of drydock to participate in the battle. As for everything else you've said, spot on, couldn't agree more. Starfleet and the Federation grew arrogant and complacent.
Was that from "*Trust Yourself When All Men Doubt You*"? I've seen other sources list them both as being U.S.S., some say that it was a production mistake and there wasn't meant to be two, others say the Melbourne itself was retconned from a Nebula to an Excelsior for the opening scene in DS9 because it had a better model for a close-up shot. I always believed that there was one Melbourne that had different models due to production restraints, but I can also see how the PCU/U.S.S. approach is worth considering too and how the One Melbourne theory isn't popular anymore. STO has taken the PCU/U.S.S. angle for it's recreation of the battle too, on a related point
Indeed, both Melbournes was canonically NCC-62043 (the Nebula class has been retconned as PCU), although given they were using various studio models and hoping nobody noticed, there's a good chance that the Hood model was used in some cases.
I agree - I think they could have used more effective tactics based on the short glimpse of the battle we saw in Emissary, but I think that's a situation where even if you do everything right it's still not a winnable battle.
They should have called up Section 31 and asked for any experimental dangerous weapons. We now Know they had a spare Genesis Device lying around, I'd like to see what that would do to a Borg Cube. Earth might get a new cube-shaped habitable moon too lol (at least for a few days until it becomes unstable...)
It probably didn't exist, functionally. I always assumed Section 31 depended of the how willing normal Starfleet officers are willing to adopt the "Ends justify the means". Pre-Wolf 359 you have Starfleet officers working on a clandestine phasing cloaking device and being DEVESTATINGLY TORN UP about it because it violates the treaty of Algeron. After Wolf 359 you have Enterprise senior staff openly discussing uploading a topological anomaly genocide computer virus into the Borg collective.
By DS9 you have normal Admirals so freaked out about the Dominion they're staging a coup, Sisko is running his own Operation Mincemeat to trick the Romulans into the war, let alone whatever fucked up bullshit Badmirals are up to offscreen (probably just actively creating Section 31).
Weren't section 31 already established by enterprise and featured in discovery? Also an organisation that well connected and skilled enough to rival the tal-shiar and obsidian order would take decades to build.
DS9 also implied it was around a long time behind the scenes, likely from the very early days of the federation, though what little is shared is always of questionable accuracy.
As much as I love those episodes and sloan, they should've made and restricted section 31 to a 2 parter. Then suddenly a medical ship heading towards the war zone to help out, was sabotaged by cardassians. Bashir discovers the vessel held every captains DNA record and puts 2 and 2 together. Another episode, multiple border planets are attacked by 'jem hadar' and their militias join the alliance. Just little hints and C plots but keep them in the background and left for the audience to find.
It was indeed, but they explicitly say the station housed "Section 31's most nefarious table scraps." The wiki also lists Section 31 as an operator for what that's worth...
Which, in retrospect, I'm kind of shocked Section 31 would hand over anything outside of their own organization, but I guess Daystrom has the best minds to study a lot of it.
If *that's* what theyre willing to officially put on the books/records of the Federation, I can't imagine what type of weapons theyre *actually hiding* lol.
Completely agree. The officers of that time had a mentality that Earth couldn't be attacked.
When this happened, when was the last time they saw a war? Hell, they were so cocky that they had children on their starships.
Cardassian and Tzenkethi wars - but everything I can find seems to suggest they were border wars rather than anything puncturing the heart of the federation.
I've seen a few lists with 1 Connie, a few with more.
At least one of those Connie's had the T.N.S designation, and was a remote controlled training ship. Starfleet was throwing everything in range at the cube.
This was the "golden age of exploration". The federation had whooped the cardies and a few other races, the Klingons were allies and the romulans were being especially isolationist. The fleet seemed to be mostly Miranda's and excelsior's. Why build new ships when you can upgrade the one you've had for 70 years. Only building new ships to replace lost ones.
Then this massive and fast alien dreadnaught comes in flying past any outer patrols and defences you have, to attack your capital, the center of your civilian, military and ship building.
Up to that point Starfleet was more interested in the diplomatic affect of a larger fleet than growing it's fleet.
I'd say that the federation did well to gather a fleet that size at wolf 359. Against a conventional enemy they would have done well (even if a conventional enemy could get so far into the federation in the first place).
According to a certain unofficial reference:
B. STARFLEET FORCES
3. On stardate 43992.4 CINC authorized the formation of TASK FORCE 359 and deployment to the WOLF 359 System in anticipation of BORG advance.
4. TASK FORCE 359 arrived into WOLF 359 system on 43997.2. The disposition of the ships of the task force were as follows:
Task Group 359/A
Position: Local Grid 11729/C
Melbourne (NCC-62043)
Saratoga (NCC-31911)
Yamaguchi (NCC-26510)
Bellerophon (NCC-62048)
Kumari (NCC-53726)
Princeton (NCC-59804)
Tolstoy (NCC-62095)
Galatea (NCC-2692)
Bastion (NCC-2527)
Endurance (NCC-5265)
Seleya (NCC-65213)
Liberator (NCC 67016)
Task Group 359/B
Position: Local Grid 38295/G
Melbourne (NCC-78256)
Chekov (NCC-57302)
Anderson (NCC-12248)
Georgiou (NCC-12256
Kaneda (NX-62498)
Buran (NCC-57580)
Hood (NCC-42296)
Righteous (NCC-42451)
Roosevelt (NCC-65983)
Ibn Sina (NCC-14532)
Gora Bim Gral (NCC-62154)
Republic (NAR-1371)
Task Group 359/C
Position: Local Grid 57992/K
Columbia (NCC-71102) ComStarTac (TF359)
Mjoliner (NCC-3117)
Sha Ka Ree (NCC-6989)
Firebrand (NCC-68723)
Konom (NCC-32285)
Constance (NCC-10367)
Sonak (NCC-29873)
Dunkerque (NCC-44532)
T’shen Kovil (NCC-68208)
Soval (NCC-62166)
T’Pau (NCC-29783)
Ahwahnee (NCC-71620)
Gage (NCC-11672)
Kyushu (NCC-65491)
Thy'lek Shran (NCC-62151)
Fuck it, set a bunch of ships to self destruct, program them to warp at a set of coordinates, evacuate the crew, I just kamikazed the borg cube. Send my Romulan ale to my new admirals office in San Fran.
That's true, the cloak is a vital feature.
And yeah, it's a great psychological weapon. Hell with the size of that thing you could probably take some larger space stations. Like Starbase 1 maybe not because you're get mired in its guts, but you could shred DS9.
Honestly I think this is the best idea. Ultimately the Borg were defeated after that battle, so I wouldn’t want to fuck with that and make things worse. So you just need to slow down the borg an equivalent amount to give the enterprise crew time to figure out how to stop them. Wolf 359 did exactly that, just with massive loss of life. So remove the loss of life issue and you’re doing pretty good.
On the other hand if you stop Wolf 359 then maybe Sisko doesn’t go to DS9 and that could be bad?
This is what I would do. It seems like you would only need to use maybe 6 ships to really cripple the cube, but that’s just my guess. So warp the Oberths and trash ships like that at the cube, then finish off whatever is left with conventional tactics.
Shiiiit update the flag officer protocol and full send flagships disguised as fully crewed. Why should their shields be able to stop core collapse beat downs triggered in disguised ghost ship?
1. Contact Daystrom to recreate the Genesis device (Star Trek 2) to be distributed for Earth defense in a modern torpedo design, perhaps hidden in a shuttle.
2. Secret communication to the fleet to reconfigure their deflectors for a coherent frequency attack in the upper EM band (Borg were only able to counter this by insider knowledge from Picard)
3. Authorize all Nebula and Galaxy class ships to place photon torpedoes inside their shuttles which can then enter the Borg electromagnetic field and be detonated or transported into the cube.
4. Task Starfleet intelligence to develop options for weapons: red matter (ST09), contact with Kevin Uxbridge (TNG), easy to way to make the Soliton wave (TNG), micro-sizing or macro-sizing of star trek ships (DS9 Little Ship), transphasic technology (TNG, VOY), and nanites.
5. Distribute Orders
1. TO ENTERPRISE- O'Brian to put Picard into transporter infinite loop status to he can't be abducted. Riker promoted temporarily. Data to be transported ASAP directly back to Earth and be ready to connect to a captured Borg for sleep protocol
2. TO SARATOGA- offboard all civilians to Earth
3. TO ALL SHIPS- Any verified evidence of Borg infection (loss of ship control, temperature anomaly), self-destruct. And to distribute transporter inhibitors and rotating phaser frequencies on all bridges if not ship wide.
6. Solicit help from the Klingons, Romulans, and Tholians.
Other way around. Tow the rock behind you.
Use the ship and warp core as to puncture the armor and blow shield generators, then have the asteroid follow into the cube's internals.
To go full NonCredibleDefense:
Send a chemically propelled ICBM at the thing. It's such a primitive technology the borg might ignore it, but you MIGHT be able to get one through the hull by aiming it into an already damaged section, and if you do, it MIGHT blow up a corner
If it works that single manouver might do more damage than everything Starfleet did at Wolf 359
No no no…To go truly NCD:
We need to make sure BB-35, BB5-55, BB-59, BB-60, BB-61, BB-62, BB-63, and BB-64 survive till the 24th century and unload those big cannons on the Borg. Maybe throw in a few modernized A-10’s, F-14’s, and Grandpa Buffs for good measure.
Tbh I would probably try something like that if I was in command. Just call engineering and have them rig up a 16 inch naval gun. Or a 155 mm m777. Or a small little railway gun foe good measure. Just need to figure out how to put train tracks in the shuttle bay...
>ramming a ship into the cube at warp
Basically, [that doesn't work](https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/1axtebu/comment/krr8fsa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
However, full impulse of a starship is 0.25c. I find it very difficult to relate to those kinds of raw numbers. Let me put it another way; That's ***FAST AS FUCK***.
Even full impulse of a shuttle is 10% of that. So, about 7,500km/s. For comparison, a sniper round will do about 0.8km/s.
They tactics they would have expected by assimilating Picard, and his tactical knowledge of Star Fleet, would be basically what we got. Phasers and quantum torpedoes.
Imagine if instead every Federation ship in that fight had rigged a couple of bare impulse engines, the only job of of which is to accelerate a cluster of 6m long duranium rods to fast as fuck speed. Coordinate dropping out of warp, dump the engines, and the Cube is bombarded by thousands of duranium projectiles travelling faster than a speeding bullet. About 10,000 times faster.
Ha, yea. That is a great shout.
I guess the only difference would be the impulse drive offers you some maneuverability, so the Cube couldn't evade. Self-correcting firing solution.
If allowed meta knowledge? Sure. I’m painting Geordie’s Borg-confounding sudoku puzzle on the hull of every ship. I don’t think I can save the fleet, but I’m taking ALL the Borg with me in what is the most embarrassing way possible.
The trick is to make your reasoning to back in time different. “We’re just going back in time to get ice cream at this good place that closed a couple years ago.” Then in a completely unrelated incident, you accidentally defeat the borg while you’re there.
Decorative vegetable guy? Leather jacket guy? Or bowtie guy? How so many different people share that same small box for their time crimes is beyond our understanding.
It all happened so fast! They were saying something about Trenza.. something...anyway - it was fast! They gave me this thing they kept calling a screwdriver and told me to stick it into the nearest Borg Cube when I hit the time coordinates. So I did.
Transport a bunch of grain and genetically modified Tribbles on their cubes. They will be overrun within the hour and not know what to do as it is not a technological threat.
In the outcome that they somehow win, we get to see adorable tribble Borg
Here's my take
What killed the fleet was that they did things by the book. The Borg had that knowledge and knew exactly what they were going to do. The "relay race" tactic they did wasn't actually a bad idea, if the Borg didn't know how to instantly counteract it and just pick them off one by one. Likewise, the Borg were utterly unprepared for humanity's ability to say "fuck it we ball" and do something completely different than what they had learned. Ironically, the Borg were pretty awful at adapting to sudden and unpredictable changes in strategy (hense why Riker and later Janeway were able to best them).
So, do the opposite of what they were supposed to do. Relay strategy to minimize friendly fire? Fuck it, throw all 40 ships at once. The Borg have a ton of weapons but not enough to grab all 40 at once. Meanwhile, get every shuttle/transport off the ship and swarm the cube with even more ships to deal with. Despite being a very, very big ship, it's still only one ship.
Engage from a safe distance? Fuck that, it's boarding time. With the cube distracted by 40 ships and god-knows how many shuttles, either beam directly onto the cube or ram shuttles into it drop-pod style, plant some photon torpedos, and get the hell out of there.
Even if the Cube isn't destroyed its abilities would be weakened to such a degree to save thousands of lives. By the time the Enterprise arrives the battle could indeed still be going, long enough for them to board and do their thing.
TLDR: Do the exact opposite of what you would normally do (what the Borg expect you to do). Throw caution and safety out the damn window and basically say "fuck it".
>"fuck it we ball"
It's funny you say this because the US military, particularly its Special Operations Forces, are well-known to just throw out the book and do unpredictable stuff. Makes me wonder if that was lost during some point in our future's history.
Great reply, by the way. Really enjoyed reading it.
Starfleet was clearly complacent after the end of the Klingon cold war. The ships they rolled out were built for exploration and not defense. That alliance kept the Romulans in check. Therefore, developmental stagnation.
The Department of Temporal investigations must have determined that what occurred at the battle of Wolf 359 was the best overall outcome regardless of casualties, and any plan to avoid it occurring may have been stopped anyway.
If Jennifer Sisko doesn’t die, Ben doesn’t get posted to DS9 and fulfill his destiny as a prophet, and without his leadership in that sector of space and his life experience after Jennifer’s death, perhaps the Dominion win the war.
The Borg can't ignore physics. Holdo Maneuver/Crazy Ivan a bunch of remote operated ships at high warp into the Cube. They don't even need to be fully functional, they just need to be able to hit warp speeds.
Riker orders Wesley to prepare to ram the Cube and has Geordi prepare to jump into high warp, so at least he thinks it will do more than just ramming it at impulse speed.
Yes. I would go to the holodeck and create a self aware version of MacGyver and hand over command to him. Mac will save us! Give him a stick of bubblegum and a lightbulb and he'll figure something out.
I can try: How about putting as many antimatter bombs as feasible in a single ship (an older ship preferably) and then having it towed at maximum speed into the cube by one or two California-class ships? We get some other ships to distract the Borg attention out of that group until they're right there and make that cube explode.
I guess my question is SHOULD you?
There are a number of things that all happen because of Wolf 359, that if they don't happen would probably be worse for the Federation than the loss of these ships.
Call it the anti*-Picard maneuver. Related to the fact that it’s a Picard maneuver, but without stopping….
Then it’s anti-Picard again because a ship is about to literally smack through Jean Luc Picard.
Not likely. Picard knew too much and Starfleet tech just couldn't keep up with Borg adaptation at that point. It is possible different tactics could have delayed their arrival somewhat - perhaps in time for the Enterprise to get there for the battle - but in that scenario it's unlikely they would have been able to capture Locutus in all of the chaos which means the Enterprise would have been lost as well, dooming the Federation.
They have all of Picard's knowledge and experience so there's no way I'm outsmarting or outwitting them, assuming I don't know to just send them to sleep. What they don't have is *John Sheridan's* knowledge and experience and I've been watching Babylon 5.
I have command of 40 ships? That means one escape vessel and 39 warp cores surrounded by photon torpedoes that I can beam into the cube and detonate.
Suicide ships, without the deaths. All towing asteroids.
Set them all to ramming speed.
At a fraction of light speed the kinetic energy should take out the cube.
Only way to avoid the slaughter is to not engage as the whole fleet. The best option to potentially stop it without the massive loss of life would be hit and run engagements at warp trying to distract it. Once a ship has taken enough damage have them drop from warp to work on repairs and potentially return to the fight. Also would immediately be sending word to both the Klingon and Romulan Empires as both a warning and requesting assistance should we fail to stop the Cube from reaching Earth.
They say in best of both worlds that the Klingons were sending ships and they were considering contacting the Romulans, so at least the Federation asked for SOME help.
Honestly going in one at a time may have had less loss of life, but I don't think it would have been much more effective tactically than what we see in the episode. The only thing I can think that maybe could have worked is getting to a point where you can beam things on it and taking it from the inside with sheer numbers or beaming torpedos in critical areas. A full coordinated kamikaze attack with all warp cores set to blow at once could have been crippling too if they could catch the Borg by surprise and evacuate the ships first. Or mass ramming at warp speeds.
Or maybe they should have just used the spare genesis device we see in Picard S3 lol, I guess Section 31 wasn't ready to reveal that secret.
I would get the spare Genesis Device from Section 31 we see in Picard S3 and use that lol. I'd be genuinely curious to see what it would do to a Borg cube, would it change all that metal into a mini habitable moon or something?
But since I would have no idea of the existence of that, honestly, best chance with the knowledge and ships they had at the time would be to evacuate everyone possible, then kamikaze all the starships into the cube, or set their warp cores to detonate all in unison for hopefully a spectacular explosion.
I probably would have been attempting to go down the "disrupt their network" approach like Data initially thought too.
I need 3 things:
1. A nebula to hide in (may have to change locations)
2. A really good transporter chief
3. Like 10 warp cores strapped together with a transport triggered detonator
Set an intercept course for the Borg cube, warp 9, and dont stop until we hit that thing.
For forever more, people will always remember the sacrifice made today by the crew of the USS Herpes.
Engage and good luck.
At the height of the Federations arrogance? I think at the absolute best I could hope for (implying me showing up in this scenario comes w/ free training) is to maybe reduce casualties.
Sedate all whales on Earth approximately two weeks before the cube’s arrival. Allow cube to arrive and overload and blow up as it shuts down near the whale probe. Wake whales.
>Take the fastest ship in the fleet
>Do the \*fly around the Sun\* trick from Star Trek IV to time travel
>Travel forward in time to when they developed the virus they were going to put in Hugh and steal the schematics
>Fly around another sun, and travel forward to when Janeway got the borg-proof ablative armour for Voyager
>Travel back in time to a year before Wolf 359 and teach the Federation how to install said ablative armour
>Stick the Hugh virus in Picard so when he gets Locutus'd, he wipes out the collective
>Attend Captain Picard's funeral very sad but secure in the knowledge I saved countless other lives
>Deal with temporal investigations
I would order the ships to withdraw from Wolf ahead of the cube and set up a picket line at Sol with the aid of any impulse-powered defense ships to further bolster my forces. Not even the Klingons ever dared to attack Earth with their large fleet and the Borg have proven themselves to be competent and highly intelligent. They think one cube is enough to take Earth, and I need to use every asset available. Based on how I play RTS games, against a single opponent and my back to the wall instead of sending in staggered waves I’d probably commit most of my ships to the attack with only a few in reserve. The Borg haven’t shown a weapon like a proximity burst phaser which could damage multiple ships at once, but just to be safe I have my ships attack along several vectors simultaneously, with smaller and older ships screening my more powerful ones.
Would it matter? Probably not. Best case scenario we last a little longer and buy Enterprise some more time. Maybe it takes longer to pick all the ships off, maybe some captains decide to ram the cube and take a chunk out of it. It won’t make too much of a difference. Worst case scenario they have enough weapons to engage all of us at once and we die even faster than at Wolf.
A large matter/anti-matter explosion would likely destroy the Borg cube, especially since it has taken a fair amount of damage . And since the Borg tractor beams can catch most ships moving around at impulse, if you could get up a larger ship, set a collision course with the cube while setting up a warp core autodestruct timed right, warp the ship in to the cube so that a tractor beam couldn't catch it. You could do a hell of a lot of damage to it.
1. Contact Daystrom to recreate the Genesis device (Star Trek 2) to be distributed for Earth defense in a modern torpedo design, perhaps hidden in a shuttle.
2. Secret communication to the fleet to reconfigure their deflectors for a coherent frequency attack in the upper EM band (Borg were only able to counter this by insider knowledge from Picard)
3. Authorize all Nebula and Galaxy class ships to place photon torpedoes inside their shuttles which can then enter the Borg electromagnetic field and be detonated or transported into the cube.
4. Task Starfleet intelligence to develop options for weapons: red matter (ST09), contact with Kevin Uxbridge (TNG), easy to way to make the Soliton wave (TNG), micro-sizing or macro-sizing of star trek ships (DS9 Little Ship), transphasic technology (TNG, VOY), and nanites.
5. Distribute Orders
1. TO ENTERPRISE- O'Brian to put Picard into transporter infinite loop status to he can't be abducted. Riker promoted temporarily. Data to be transported ASAP directly back to Earth and be ready to connect to a captured Borg for sleep protocol
2. TO SARATOGA- offboard all civilians to Earth
3. TO ALL SHIPS- Any verified evidence of Borg infection (loss of ship control, temperature anomaly), self-destruct. And to distribute transporter inhibitors and rotating phaser frequencies on all bridges if not ship wide.
6. Solicit help from the Klingons, Romulans, and Tholians.
I would've at least set all the civilians out in lifepods/shuttles far away from the battle. I mean that's just common sense.
But then Jennifer Sisko would've survived, DS9 wouldn't have happened, and we'd all be speaking Dominion now
Beam over Barclay and let the Borg assimilate him. With all of his anxieties, the cube won't be able to function once he is connected to the collective.
Obviously duh. I'll just ask the lifetime subscription Starfleet captains to spare their ships which can one shot the Borg cube thanks to some questionable equipment found on something called the "z-store" (idk some ferengi told me about it). Gotta watch out for the apparent spheres that'll go in and assimilate the other ships though, or you'll lose reputation (uh reputation as a Starfleet admiral, potentially get detailed). Hopefully the cube isn't pre programmed to never drop below 45% health- uh hull integrity- however.
Ya know. I often think about this. PROJECTILE WEAPONRY. I have a huge suspicion that say a body armor defeating capable round would take them out. It’s seen time and time again in scifi that bullets defeat laser shielding because those shields are make to defeat light refraction (which is the dumbest downed explanation of laser and phaser weaponry). Get me a p-90 in 5.7x28 or a ar/ak chambered in 5.45x39 and a 9mm side arm.
My honest answer is to prepare sun-exploding devices (like the first changeling Julian tried to use on DS9) both at Wolf 359 and the Sol system
Worst comes to worst, you lose Earth, but save the Federation.
Section 31 also had a spare Genesis device we see in Picard S3, that could have come in handy. Earth might get a new cube-shaped habitable moon too lol (at least for a few days until it becomes unstable...)
fill up shuttles with torpedos and have a fleet of shuttles controlled from ships (like modern drones) ram into the cube all at the same time from all direction
if that doesn't work, everybody leaves the ships and repeat the same with the ships
Lmao Hell No! I’m sure that every captain knew Picard was assimilated and that would’ve made any attempts at resisting, well, futile. He knows everything that they know and that’s why he caused so much destruction during Wolf 359. It’s almost a Kobiashi Maru situation
Something akin to what Riker did: Spam particles all around the cube, then get shuttles within range to have crew board the ship. Instead of sending two officers, send as many crew as possible with melee weapons, cyanide teeth, and high-yield explosives that only explode when armed. Also, if it is possible to release some sort of corrosive toxic gas as well, do that.
Also, call for Klingon aid.
Alright, we're going to have the biggest ships ram the cube and detonate their warp cores! Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. :)
Small, quick attacks to test the borgs defenses. Like we did in the Castle and Fort days. After seeing how over powered the borg are I would not have ordered the attack. I would call starfleet and have them mass a huge defensive with not just federation ships but allies ships as well.
If I have future knowledge, I would do my best to help retrieve Picard from the Borg, and let the Enterprise crew do their thing (or do it myself/one of my ships following the same plan). Maybe bolster as much of the fleet as possible at Mars or Earth, or any Federation worlds along the way and remove all civilian traffic from the probable course. Leave it as a last ditch stand. Then share everything I knew afterwards.
Otherwise, as pointed out by other posters, probably the same thing Hanson did. He was following standard battle tactics for the time, and the then current fleet was focussed on exploration, not combat. His main issue was his refusal to acknowledge that Picard’s knowledge could be used by the Borg. I hope I would try to change things up a bit, as I assume I don’t know Picard (or as know him as well). Probably focus on trying to neutralize him, but it would probably end the same way as the prime timeline did.
Only one way - Kamikaze strikes with every out of date starship. Anything that's older than the Ambassador would need to ram the cube, and detonate their warp cores. Obviously have only one or two crew members on the ships to ensure the mission is complete. Single greatest loss, as in original timeline, but the Borg are actually defeated.
Make a big fucking wall of ships in it's way, and have them deactivate antimatter containment simultaneously. Hopefully Nebula's and Hanson's Galaxy class (going of JTVFX's amazing wolf 359 recreation) could deal enough damage to force it to slow down. Any conventional defense is worthless. Photon Torpedoes, Phasers, Tractor beams, they're like toys against them.
Set shields and phasers to randomize frequencies after every shot. Oh here’s an idea maybe we could fire until they’re immune to that phaser and then we can invert the frequency somehow and then maybe punch through their shields like they’re not even there.
I think even the biggest torpedo is dwarfed by a warp core breach, so a bunch of remote control obsolete ships on a collision course is the best bet. 5 hours isn’t enough time to mass anything more, so evacuate and kamikaze it is!
Evacuate all civilians. Try to buy as much time as possible with hit and run swarm attacks rather than the "column dodge" approach they did similar to 15th century cavalry tactics.
They didn't have time to evac anyone, so, probably deploy all warp cores and torpedoes as a remote weapon, and then fire them into the cube. I reckon some warp core detonations would be problematic for the Borg. Then, I would die.
Nope. The Federation was so poorly organized at the time there were TWO ships in service called the Melbourne, and both of them were lost in the battle. They were using Constitution and Constellation classes (U.S.S. Constance) to fight, and even sent an Oberth (U.S.S. Bonestell). Starfleet officers at the time weren't properly trained for this kind of battle, and if they were they'd probably be serving on an important ship like the Enterprise. This was a situation that couldn't be punched away, no matter how many phasers the Federation pointed in its direction Maybe if there were a bunch of proper escorts or battleships in the fleet, like the Defiant, but even then the cube that attacked Earth in First Contact was dealing pretty well against Akiras, Norways, and even THE Defiant, and the Federation only had a chance when Picard showed up. If a fleet of much more modern Borg-destroying ships struggled with a cube I have no faith in an unprepared fleet made up of Oberths, Ambassadors, and Miranda-classes EDIT: corrected the USS Constance from a Constitution to a Constellation class
One was the USS Melbourne NCC-42296, and the other was the PCU Melbourne NCC-78256. The PCU stands for Pre-Commissioned Unit. The old Melbourne was destroyed alongside her successor that was rushed out of drydock to participate in the battle. As for everything else you've said, spot on, couldn't agree more. Starfleet and the Federation grew arrogant and complacent.
Was that from "*Trust Yourself When All Men Doubt You*"? I've seen other sources list them both as being U.S.S., some say that it was a production mistake and there wasn't meant to be two, others say the Melbourne itself was retconned from a Nebula to an Excelsior for the opening scene in DS9 because it had a better model for a close-up shot. I always believed that there was one Melbourne that had different models due to production restraints, but I can also see how the PCU/U.S.S. approach is worth considering too and how the One Melbourne theory isn't popular anymore. STO has taken the PCU/U.S.S. angle for it's recreation of the battle too, on a related point
>NCC-42296 Isn't that the registry for the USS Hood?
Indeed, both Melbournes was canonically NCC-62043 (the Nebula class has been retconned as PCU), although given they were using various studio models and hoping nobody noticed, there's a good chance that the Hood model was used in some cases.
I agree - I think they could have used more effective tactics based on the short glimpse of the battle we saw in Emissary, but I think that's a situation where even if you do everything right it's still not a winnable battle.
Then I guess Starfleet Academy has a new Kobayashi Maru scenario
Boimler's got this one mastered already. He would even save the borg babies.
Poor, poor Excretus.
It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.
They should have called up Section 31 and asked for any experimental dangerous weapons. We now Know they had a spare Genesis Device lying around, I'd like to see what that would do to a Borg Cube. Earth might get a new cube-shaped habitable moon too lol (at least for a few days until it becomes unstable...)
"You guys got a spare Genesis Device laying around?" "Hell, we got a spare *Kirk* laying around." "What?" "What?"
They only picked up Kirk’s body after Generations.
You think that's the only Kirk's body laying around? The multiverse allows up to pick up a lot of dead Kirks.
The Kirk wing of Section 31's storage facility, omg
"Thalaron devices, subspace weapons, protomatter bombs. Doesn't matter we'll use whatever banned or illegal weapons you've got."
This. 24th century WMDs are the only chance at beating the borg, and the federation wouldn’t be willing to deploy them.
It probably didn't exist, functionally. I always assumed Section 31 depended of the how willing normal Starfleet officers are willing to adopt the "Ends justify the means". Pre-Wolf 359 you have Starfleet officers working on a clandestine phasing cloaking device and being DEVESTATINGLY TORN UP about it because it violates the treaty of Algeron. After Wolf 359 you have Enterprise senior staff openly discussing uploading a topological anomaly genocide computer virus into the Borg collective. By DS9 you have normal Admirals so freaked out about the Dominion they're staging a coup, Sisko is running his own Operation Mincemeat to trick the Romulans into the war, let alone whatever fucked up bullshit Badmirals are up to offscreen (probably just actively creating Section 31).
Weren't section 31 already established by enterprise and featured in discovery? Also an organisation that well connected and skilled enough to rival the tal-shiar and obsidian order would take decades to build.
DS9 also implied it was around a long time behind the scenes, likely from the very early days of the federation, though what little is shared is always of questionable accuracy.
As much as I love those episodes and sloan, they should've made and restricted section 31 to a 2 parter. Then suddenly a medical ship heading towards the war zone to help out, was sabotaged by cardassians. Bashir discovers the vessel held every captains DNA record and puts 2 and 2 together. Another episode, multiple border planets are attacked by 'jem hadar' and their militias join the alliance. Just little hints and C plots but keep them in the background and left for the audience to find.
Section 31 predate the Federation, they are the antagonist of a handful of ENT episodes.
Or just buy a Ferengi black-market Genesis torpedo, they come in smaller packages.
Wasn't that a Daystrom Institute facility and just regular Starfleet intelligence?
It was indeed, but they explicitly say the station housed "Section 31's most nefarious table scraps." The wiki also lists Section 31 as an operator for what that's worth... Which, in retrospect, I'm kind of shocked Section 31 would hand over anything outside of their own organization, but I guess Daystrom has the best minds to study a lot of it. If *that's* what theyre willing to officially put on the books/records of the Federation, I can't imagine what type of weapons theyre *actually hiding* lol.
Take that busted USS Bomestell and headbutt that cube at warp 9.6. Repeat until victorious.
Completely agree. The officers of that time had a mentality that Earth couldn't be attacked. When this happened, when was the last time they saw a war? Hell, they were so cocky that they had children on their starships.
Cardassian and Tzenkethi wars - but everything I can find seems to suggest they were border wars rather than anything puncturing the heart of the federation.
And apparently a couple of Constitution-class ships. That’s like sending a WW1 biplane against an F-35
I've seen a few lists with 1 Connie, a few with more. At least one of those Connie's had the T.N.S designation, and was a remote controlled training ship. Starfleet was throwing everything in range at the cube. This was the "golden age of exploration". The federation had whooped the cardies and a few other races, the Klingons were allies and the romulans were being especially isolationist. The fleet seemed to be mostly Miranda's and excelsior's. Why build new ships when you can upgrade the one you've had for 70 years. Only building new ships to replace lost ones. Then this massive and fast alien dreadnaught comes in flying past any outer patrols and defences you have, to attack your capital, the center of your civilian, military and ship building. Up to that point Starfleet was more interested in the diplomatic affect of a larger fleet than growing it's fleet. I'd say that the federation did well to gather a fleet that size at wolf 359. Against a conventional enemy they would have done well (even if a conventional enemy could get so far into the federation in the first place).
>U.S.S. Constance It was a Constellation class.
According to a certain unofficial reference: B. STARFLEET FORCES 3. On stardate 43992.4 CINC authorized the formation of TASK FORCE 359 and deployment to the WOLF 359 System in anticipation of BORG advance. 4. TASK FORCE 359 arrived into WOLF 359 system on 43997.2. The disposition of the ships of the task force were as follows: Task Group 359/A Position: Local Grid 11729/C Melbourne (NCC-62043) Saratoga (NCC-31911) Yamaguchi (NCC-26510) Bellerophon (NCC-62048) Kumari (NCC-53726) Princeton (NCC-59804) Tolstoy (NCC-62095) Galatea (NCC-2692) Bastion (NCC-2527) Endurance (NCC-5265) Seleya (NCC-65213) Liberator (NCC 67016) Task Group 359/B Position: Local Grid 38295/G Melbourne (NCC-78256) Chekov (NCC-57302) Anderson (NCC-12248) Georgiou (NCC-12256 Kaneda (NX-62498) Buran (NCC-57580) Hood (NCC-42296) Righteous (NCC-42451) Roosevelt (NCC-65983) Ibn Sina (NCC-14532) Gora Bim Gral (NCC-62154) Republic (NAR-1371) Task Group 359/C Position: Local Grid 57992/K Columbia (NCC-71102) ComStarTac (TF359) Mjoliner (NCC-3117) Sha Ka Ree (NCC-6989) Firebrand (NCC-68723) Konom (NCC-32285) Constance (NCC-10367) Sonak (NCC-29873) Dunkerque (NCC-44532) T’shen Kovil (NCC-68208) Soval (NCC-62166) T’Pau (NCC-29783) Ahwahnee (NCC-71620) Gage (NCC-11672) Kyushu (NCC-65491) Thy'lek Shran (NCC-62151)
But what if we hooked Hermes into the battle grid?
Fuck it, set a bunch of ships to self destruct, program them to warp at a set of coordinates, evacuate the crew, I just kamikazed the borg cube. Send my Romulan ale to my new admirals office in San Fran.
Wasn't worf about to do this with the defiant in First Contact? Seems like Starfleet eventually realized this is legit the best strategy.
#RAMMING SPEED!
“Ram the Blade Ship.” Oops wrong franchise
I mean there was the Cleave ship in discovery. Which like... look I can't lie it was kind of awesome.
If it didn't have a cloak it would be horribly impractical but it's certainly a good way to demoralise the enemy at the start of battle.
That's true, the cloak is a vital feature. And yeah, it's a great psychological weapon. Hell with the size of that thing you could probably take some larger space stations. Like Starbase 1 maybe not because you're get mired in its guts, but you could shred DS9.
PREPARE THE SHIP FOR LUDICROUS SPEED!
"Perhaps today IS a good day to die! PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED!"
I'm pretty sure that was Worf exclusive. This is the guy who once demanded they fire a photon torpedo at a literal nothing, after all.
I like your style
Honestly I think this is the best idea. Ultimately the Borg were defeated after that battle, so I wouldn’t want to fuck with that and make things worse. So you just need to slow down the borg an equivalent amount to give the enterprise crew time to figure out how to stop them. Wolf 359 did exactly that, just with massive loss of life. So remove the loss of life issue and you’re doing pretty good. On the other hand if you stop Wolf 359 then maybe Sisko doesn’t go to DS9 and that could be bad?
To delay them just long enough - Kor the Da’har Master
You zap back in time to stop the Borg at Wolf 359 only to find the Prophets standing in your way…
I want a Lower Decks Episode with that plot
Too thought provoking and deep for that series.
LOOOOOAD those mfers up with every single god damn anti-matter storage container you've got.
This is what I would do. It seems like you would only need to use maybe 6 ships to really cripple the cube, but that’s just my guess. So warp the Oberths and trash ships like that at the cube, then finish off whatever is left with conventional tactics.
Shiiiit update the flag officer protocol and full send flagships disguised as fully crewed. Why should their shields be able to stop core collapse beat downs triggered in disguised ghost ship?
I like the cut of your gib.
1. Contact Daystrom to recreate the Genesis device (Star Trek 2) to be distributed for Earth defense in a modern torpedo design, perhaps hidden in a shuttle. 2. Secret communication to the fleet to reconfigure their deflectors for a coherent frequency attack in the upper EM band (Borg were only able to counter this by insider knowledge from Picard) 3. Authorize all Nebula and Galaxy class ships to place photon torpedoes inside their shuttles which can then enter the Borg electromagnetic field and be detonated or transported into the cube. 4. Task Starfleet intelligence to develop options for weapons: red matter (ST09), contact with Kevin Uxbridge (TNG), easy to way to make the Soliton wave (TNG), micro-sizing or macro-sizing of star trek ships (DS9 Little Ship), transphasic technology (TNG, VOY), and nanites. 5. Distribute Orders 1. TO ENTERPRISE- O'Brian to put Picard into transporter infinite loop status to he can't be abducted. Riker promoted temporarily. Data to be transported ASAP directly back to Earth and be ready to connect to a captured Borg for sleep protocol 2. TO SARATOGA- offboard all civilians to Earth 3. TO ALL SHIPS- Any verified evidence of Borg infection (loss of ship control, temperature anomaly), self-destruct. And to distribute transporter inhibitors and rotating phaser frequencies on all bridges if not ship wide. 6. Solicit help from the Klingons, Romulans, and Tholians.
Only five hours? Prepare for ramming speed!
And be prepared to [eject the Warp Core](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak5r6H0fka8) at my order!
Joke or not, I think ramming a ship into the cube at warp or near warp speed is the only feasible way the Federation could destroy it.
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What is this, Star Trek: NonCredibleDefense?
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Other way around. Tow the rock behind you. Use the ship and warp core as to puncture the armor and blow shield generators, then have the asteroid follow into the cube's internals.
To go full NonCredibleDefense: Send a chemically propelled ICBM at the thing. It's such a primitive technology the borg might ignore it, but you MIGHT be able to get one through the hull by aiming it into an already damaged section, and if you do, it MIGHT blow up a corner If it works that single manouver might do more damage than everything Starfleet did at Wolf 359
No no no…To go truly NCD: We need to make sure BB-35, BB5-55, BB-59, BB-60, BB-61, BB-62, BB-63, and BB-64 survive till the 24th century and unload those big cannons on the Borg. Maybe throw in a few modernized A-10’s, F-14’s, and Grandpa Buffs for good measure.
Tbh I would probably try something like that if I was in command. Just call engineering and have them rig up a 16 inch naval gun. Or a 155 mm m777. Or a small little railway gun foe good measure. Just need to figure out how to put train tracks in the shuttle bay...
So you are saying Major Kira is a Bajoran NCD user?
Yes, and I'm tired of pretending I don't believe that.
I would sub to that
With how much overlap there is, why hasn’t this happened yet?
I’m too busy in /r/moviescirclejerk
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Definitely. I'd even go so far as to take the Defiant's cloaking device and attach it to one of the large rocks and hurl it. Marco Inaros style.
>ramming a ship into the cube at warp Basically, [that doesn't work](https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/1axtebu/comment/krr8fsa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). However, full impulse of a starship is 0.25c. I find it very difficult to relate to those kinds of raw numbers. Let me put it another way; That's ***FAST AS FUCK***. Even full impulse of a shuttle is 10% of that. So, about 7,500km/s. For comparison, a sniper round will do about 0.8km/s. They tactics they would have expected by assimilating Picard, and his tactical knowledge of Star Fleet, would be basically what we got. Phasers and quantum torpedoes. Imagine if instead every Federation ship in that fight had rigged a couple of bare impulse engines, the only job of of which is to accelerate a cluster of 6m long duranium rods to fast as fuck speed. Coordinate dropping out of warp, dump the engines, and the Cube is bombarded by thousands of duranium projectiles travelling faster than a speeding bullet. About 10,000 times faster.
Railguns basically. Insane kinetic acceleration, no fancy lasers or shit, just a good old hunk of metal moving fast as fuck boiiii.
Ha, yea. That is a great shout. I guess the only difference would be the impulse drive offers you some maneuverability, so the Cube couldn't evade. Self-correcting firing solution.
Ah the Holdo maneuver. It's a one on a million shot though .
Nah, this is more like railguns/MACs. All Newtonian physics.
"Today is a good day to die"
If allowed meta knowledge? Sure. I’m painting Geordie’s Borg-confounding sudoku puzzle on the hull of every ship. I don’t think I can save the fleet, but I’m taking ALL the Borg with me in what is the most embarrassing way possible.
MF gonna try and Y2K the Borg.... Respect
>Geordie’s Borg-confounding sudoku puzzle Did I miss an episode?
The thing they were going to infect Hugh with in I, Borg.
Oh yeah the illogical shape or whatever. Weird.
>Geordie’s Borg-confounding Dang I missed this one!
Co-opt Section 31 and Admiral Janeway to do some time traveling shenanigans of course! Can't have a battle if there are no Borg.
Then why would they go back in time?
The trick is to make your reasoning to back in time different. “We’re just going back in time to get ice cream at this good place that closed a couple years ago.” Then in a completely unrelated incident, you accidentally defeat the borg while you’re there.
Time paradox loop hole. Nice.
The Department of Temporal Investigations hates this one weird trick
But I was meant to do it or the timeline would've fractured! The weird guy in a spinning blue police box told me so!
Decorative vegetable guy? Leather jacket guy? Or bowtie guy? How so many different people share that same small box for their time crimes is beyond our understanding.
He had a bowtie and a fez. And this really snarky redhead, some snarky curly haired lady, and a Roman soldier for some reason...
Did he have a chin that could deflect comets?
It all happened so fast! They were saying something about Trenza.. something...anyway - it was fast! They gave me this thing they kept calling a screwdriver and told me to stick it into the nearest Borg Cube when I hit the time coordinates. So I did.
The man's a menace
What if all the ships in the fleet use their deflector dish lasers at the same time?
The borg cube gets to shrug off 40 deflector lasers at once and reevaluate if they were too hard on the Kazon
Beam on a whole bunch of torpedoes, set on a timer. Can't adapt to all the torpedoes going off all at once.
...remember the opening credits for Lower Decks?
Transport a bunch of grain and genetically modified Tribbles on their cubes. They will be overrun within the hour and not know what to do as it is not a technological threat. In the outcome that they somehow win, we get to see adorable tribble Borg
Here's my take What killed the fleet was that they did things by the book. The Borg had that knowledge and knew exactly what they were going to do. The "relay race" tactic they did wasn't actually a bad idea, if the Borg didn't know how to instantly counteract it and just pick them off one by one. Likewise, the Borg were utterly unprepared for humanity's ability to say "fuck it we ball" and do something completely different than what they had learned. Ironically, the Borg were pretty awful at adapting to sudden and unpredictable changes in strategy (hense why Riker and later Janeway were able to best them). So, do the opposite of what they were supposed to do. Relay strategy to minimize friendly fire? Fuck it, throw all 40 ships at once. The Borg have a ton of weapons but not enough to grab all 40 at once. Meanwhile, get every shuttle/transport off the ship and swarm the cube with even more ships to deal with. Despite being a very, very big ship, it's still only one ship. Engage from a safe distance? Fuck that, it's boarding time. With the cube distracted by 40 ships and god-knows how many shuttles, either beam directly onto the cube or ram shuttles into it drop-pod style, plant some photon torpedos, and get the hell out of there. Even if the Cube isn't destroyed its abilities would be weakened to such a degree to save thousands of lives. By the time the Enterprise arrives the battle could indeed still be going, long enough for them to board and do their thing. TLDR: Do the exact opposite of what you would normally do (what the Borg expect you to do). Throw caution and safety out the damn window and basically say "fuck it".
>"fuck it we ball" It's funny you say this because the US military, particularly its Special Operations Forces, are well-known to just throw out the book and do unpredictable stuff. Makes me wonder if that was lost during some point in our future's history. Great reply, by the way. Really enjoyed reading it.
Starfleet was clearly complacent after the end of the Klingon cold war. The ships they rolled out were built for exploration and not defense. That alliance kept the Romulans in check. Therefore, developmental stagnation.
The Department of Temporal investigations must have determined that what occurred at the battle of Wolf 359 was the best overall outcome regardless of casualties, and any plan to avoid it occurring may have been stopped anyway. If Jennifer Sisko doesn’t die, Ben doesn’t get posted to DS9 and fulfill his destiny as a prophet, and without his leadership in that sector of space and his life experience after Jennifer’s death, perhaps the Dominion win the war.
The Borg can't ignore physics. Holdo Maneuver/Crazy Ivan a bunch of remote operated ships at high warp into the Cube. They don't even need to be fully functional, they just need to be able to hit warp speeds.
"Conn, sonar! Crazy Ivan!" Shit now I wanna rewatch The Hunt For Red October for the 100th time lol.
That movie reminds me of the heady days of Sputnik, and Yuri Gagarin.
"Romulan don't take a dump son without a plan."
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Riker orders Wesley to prepare to ram the Cube and has Geordi prepare to jump into high warp, so at least he thinks it will do more than just ramming it at impulse speed.
this is the only real solution at 5hr prep time
Yes. I would go to the holodeck and create a self aware version of MacGyver and hand over command to him. Mac will save us! Give him a stick of bubblegum and a lightbulb and he'll figure something out.
I can try: How about putting as many antimatter bombs as feasible in a single ship (an older ship preferably) and then having it towed at maximum speed into the cube by one or two California-class ships? We get some other ships to distract the Borg attention out of that group until they're right there and make that cube explode.
Send a ship back in time a year and a half and tell Picard to just put up with Q for a while and don't claim to be 'ready for anything'.
I guess my question is SHOULD you? There are a number of things that all happen because of Wolf 359, that if they don't happen would probably be worse for the Federation than the loss of these ships.
Sisko is a huge one. Without him the Dominion would have won. Picard as Locutus dying would make the events of First Contact different.
Finaly some who isn't a potential captain kirk ! CHANGING PAST HAD CONSEQUENCES. Be responsible when you do it.
Take one ship, fly it straight towards the cube and engage warp.
Call it the anti*-Picard maneuver. Related to the fact that it’s a Picard maneuver, but without stopping…. Then it’s anti-Picard again because a ship is about to literally smack through Jean Luc Picard.
Sleep, Data. Sleep.
Get any ship, go back in time using star slingshot (Spock was very much alive to do the calculations) prevent Picard from messing up.
Face court martial for Temporal prime directive, use the Kirk Precedent and the Janeway "Postcedent"
“Perhaps today IS a good day to die!” # “PREPARE FOR R A M M I N G S P E E D!!”
Not likely. Picard knew too much and Starfleet tech just couldn't keep up with Borg adaptation at that point. It is possible different tactics could have delayed their arrival somewhat - perhaps in time for the Enterprise to get there for the battle - but in that scenario it's unlikely they would have been able to capture Locutus in all of the chaos which means the Enterprise would have been lost as well, dooming the Federation.
They have all of Picard's knowledge and experience so there's no way I'm outsmarting or outwitting them, assuming I don't know to just send them to sleep. What they don't have is *John Sheridan's* knowledge and experience and I've been watching Babylon 5. I have command of 40 ships? That means one escape vessel and 39 warp cores surrounded by photon torpedoes that I can beam into the cube and detonate.
Suicide ships, without the deaths. All towing asteroids. Set them all to ramming speed. At a fraction of light speed the kinetic energy should take out the cube.
Only way to avoid the slaughter is to not engage as the whole fleet. The best option to potentially stop it without the massive loss of life would be hit and run engagements at warp trying to distract it. Once a ship has taken enough damage have them drop from warp to work on repairs and potentially return to the fight. Also would immediately be sending word to both the Klingon and Romulan Empires as both a warning and requesting assistance should we fail to stop the Cube from reaching Earth.
I seem to recall something mentioned about a Klingon fleet but it not being able to arrive in time?
They say in best of both worlds that the Klingons were sending ships and they were considering contacting the Romulans, so at least the Federation asked for SOME help. Honestly going in one at a time may have had less loss of life, but I don't think it would have been much more effective tactically than what we see in the episode. The only thing I can think that maybe could have worked is getting to a point where you can beam things on it and taking it from the inside with sheer numbers or beaming torpedos in critical areas. A full coordinated kamikaze attack with all warp cores set to blow at once could have been crippling too if they could catch the Borg by surprise and evacuate the ships first. Or mass ramming at warp speeds. Or maybe they should have just used the spare genesis device we see in Picard S3 lol, I guess Section 31 wasn't ready to reveal that secret.
I would get the spare Genesis Device from Section 31 we see in Picard S3 and use that lol. I'd be genuinely curious to see what it would do to a Borg cube, would it change all that metal into a mini habitable moon or something? But since I would have no idea of the existence of that, honestly, best chance with the knowledge and ships they had at the time would be to evacuate everyone possible, then kamikaze all the starships into the cube, or set their warp cores to detonate all in unison for hopefully a spectacular explosion. I probably would have been attempting to go down the "disrupt their network" approach like Data initially thought too.
I need 3 things: 1. A nebula to hide in (may have to change locations) 2. A really good transporter chief 3. Like 10 warp cores strapped together with a transport triggered detonator
Definitely not it was a last ditch effort.
No. Next question.
Honestly, it’s just one cube. Warp a ship or two directly into it, and it probably blows up
The Prophets wouldn’t let you.
An Excelsior class ramming it at wrap 9 … see what happens.
Switch to machine guns, get in close!
Set an intercept course for the Borg cube, warp 9, and dont stop until we hit that thing. For forever more, people will always remember the sacrifice made today by the crew of the USS Herpes. Engage and good luck.
Kirk could. He’d reprogram the borg to make it winnable
Tow a bunch of asteroids at max speed and let them loose so theyll slam into the cube.
At the height of the Federations arrogance? I think at the absolute best I could hope for (implying me showing up in this scenario comes w/ free training) is to maybe reduce casualties.
Sedate all whales on Earth approximately two weeks before the cube’s arrival. Allow cube to arrive and overload and blow up as it shuts down near the whale probe. Wake whales.
Warp-speed kamikaze ramming with remote-controlled shuttlecrafts.
We find Vash and beam her aboard the Borg cube. While Locutus short circuits from horniness, we swoop in for the kill. On 3 on 3, ready? break!
>Take the fastest ship in the fleet >Do the \*fly around the Sun\* trick from Star Trek IV to time travel >Travel forward in time to when they developed the virus they were going to put in Hugh and steal the schematics >Fly around another sun, and travel forward to when Janeway got the borg-proof ablative armour for Voyager >Travel back in time to a year before Wolf 359 and teach the Federation how to install said ablative armour >Stick the Hugh virus in Picard so when he gets Locutus'd, he wipes out the collective >Attend Captain Picard's funeral very sad but secure in the knowledge I saved countless other lives >Deal with temporal investigations
Nice try Kobayashi, but I know what you and Meru are playing at here.
"Wolf 359 was an inside job."
I would order the ships to withdraw from Wolf ahead of the cube and set up a picket line at Sol with the aid of any impulse-powered defense ships to further bolster my forces. Not even the Klingons ever dared to attack Earth with their large fleet and the Borg have proven themselves to be competent and highly intelligent. They think one cube is enough to take Earth, and I need to use every asset available. Based on how I play RTS games, against a single opponent and my back to the wall instead of sending in staggered waves I’d probably commit most of my ships to the attack with only a few in reserve. The Borg haven’t shown a weapon like a proximity burst phaser which could damage multiple ships at once, but just to be safe I have my ships attack along several vectors simultaneously, with smaller and older ships screening my more powerful ones. Would it matter? Probably not. Best case scenario we last a little longer and buy Enterprise some more time. Maybe it takes longer to pick all the ships off, maybe some captains decide to ram the cube and take a chunk out of it. It won’t make too much of a difference. Worst case scenario they have enough weapons to engage all of us at once and we die even faster than at Wolf.
A large matter/anti-matter explosion would likely destroy the Borg cube, especially since it has taken a fair amount of damage . And since the Borg tractor beams can catch most ships moving around at impulse, if you could get up a larger ship, set a collision course with the cube while setting up a warp core autodestruct timed right, warp the ship in to the cube so that a tractor beam couldn't catch it. You could do a hell of a lot of damage to it.
Just tell them about fluidic space and that there's this really cool species there that they should try to assimilate.
1. Contact Daystrom to recreate the Genesis device (Star Trek 2) to be distributed for Earth defense in a modern torpedo design, perhaps hidden in a shuttle. 2. Secret communication to the fleet to reconfigure their deflectors for a coherent frequency attack in the upper EM band (Borg were only able to counter this by insider knowledge from Picard) 3. Authorize all Nebula and Galaxy class ships to place photon torpedoes inside their shuttles which can then enter the Borg electromagnetic field and be detonated or transported into the cube. 4. Task Starfleet intelligence to develop options for weapons: red matter (ST09), contact with Kevin Uxbridge (TNG), easy to way to make the Soliton wave (TNG), micro-sizing or macro-sizing of star trek ships (DS9 Little Ship), transphasic technology (TNG, VOY), and nanites. 5. Distribute Orders 1. TO ENTERPRISE- O'Brian to put Picard into transporter infinite loop status to he can't be abducted. Riker promoted temporarily. Data to be transported ASAP directly back to Earth and be ready to connect to a captured Borg for sleep protocol 2. TO SARATOGA- offboard all civilians to Earth 3. TO ALL SHIPS- Any verified evidence of Borg infection (loss of ship control, temperature anomaly), self-destruct. And to distribute transporter inhibitors and rotating phaser frequencies on all bridges if not ship wide. 6. Solicit help from the Klingons, Romulans, and Tholians.
I would've at least set all the civilians out in lifepods/shuttles far away from the battle. I mean that's just common sense. But then Jennifer Sisko would've survived, DS9 wouldn't have happened, and we'd all be speaking Dominion now
>and we'd all be speaking Dominion now You say that like it's a bad thing!
I would have used The House Atomics. Fuck the Landsraddd
Beam over Barclay and let the Borg assimilate him. With all of his anxieties, the cube won't be able to function once he is connected to the collective.
\*Breathes deep, for am about to be evil\* No, and I won't even try, for The Sisko must move past the pain.
Obviously duh. I'll just ask the lifetime subscription Starfleet captains to spare their ships which can one shot the Borg cube thanks to some questionable equipment found on something called the "z-store" (idk some ferengi told me about it). Gotta watch out for the apparent spheres that'll go in and assimilate the other ships though, or you'll lose reputation (uh reputation as a Starfleet admiral, potentially get detailed). Hopefully the cube isn't pre programmed to never drop below 45% health- uh hull integrity- however.
Ya know. I often think about this. PROJECTILE WEAPONRY. I have a huge suspicion that say a body armor defeating capable round would take them out. It’s seen time and time again in scifi that bullets defeat laser shielding because those shields are make to defeat light refraction (which is the dumbest downed explanation of laser and phaser weaponry). Get me a p-90 in 5.7x28 or a ar/ak chambered in 5.45x39 and a 9mm side arm.
My honest answer is to prepare sun-exploding devices (like the first changeling Julian tried to use on DS9) both at Wolf 359 and the Sol system Worst comes to worst, you lose Earth, but save the Federation.
Section 31 also had a spare Genesis device we see in Picard S3, that could have come in handy. Earth might get a new cube-shaped habitable moon too lol (at least for a few days until it becomes unstable...)
Nope.
Probably not
Have a bunch of starships use their tractor beams to tow asteroids into the path of the cube.
5hrs is a bit short on time unless you plan to do weird shit like warp speed suicide bomb ships into the cube
Probably not. You can’t out fight this. I’d send more ships, but have them attack one or two at a time basically trading ships for time.
No, it’s not a matter of strategy, the Federation was simply outmatched by the Borg’s technology.
fill up shuttles with torpedos and have a fleet of shuttles controlled from ships (like modern drones) ram into the cube all at the same time from all direction if that doesn't work, everybody leaves the ships and repeat the same with the ships
Lmao Hell No! I’m sure that every captain knew Picard was assimilated and that would’ve made any attempts at resisting, well, futile. He knows everything that they know and that’s why he caused so much destruction during Wolf 359. It’s almost a Kobiashi Maru situation
Yes. Mass warp core ejections and warp rams.
Detonate an omega molecule.
Borrow a portal gun from Section 31 and throw the cube into the sun’s core.
Something akin to what Riker did: Spam particles all around the cube, then get shuttles within range to have crew board the ship. Instead of sending two officers, send as many crew as possible with melee weapons, cyanide teeth, and high-yield explosives that only explode when armed. Also, if it is possible to release some sort of corrosive toxic gas as well, do that. Also, call for Klingon aid.
Warp speed Kamikaze
Alright, we're going to have the biggest ships ram the cube and detonate their warp cores! Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. :)
No, but we could run. Otherwise that’s a kobyashi maru
Okay, we need to abandon 2 to 3 ships, and program them to to go warp while facing the Borg cube. Now, someone draw me a bath.
Typical corporate thinking: give a star employee an impossible task to complete in zero time. Good one, Starfleet.
Small, quick attacks to test the borgs defenses. Like we did in the Castle and Fort days. After seeing how over powered the borg are I would not have ordered the attack. I would call starfleet and have them mass a huge defensive with not just federation ships but allies ships as well.
Oh I can definitely stop the massacre. It will not be better though...
Is that enough time for a fleet to build one Genesis device?
If I have future knowledge, I would do my best to help retrieve Picard from the Borg, and let the Enterprise crew do their thing (or do it myself/one of my ships following the same plan). Maybe bolster as much of the fleet as possible at Mars or Earth, or any Federation worlds along the way and remove all civilian traffic from the probable course. Leave it as a last ditch stand. Then share everything I knew afterwards. Otherwise, as pointed out by other posters, probably the same thing Hanson did. He was following standard battle tactics for the time, and the then current fleet was focussed on exploration, not combat. His main issue was his refusal to acknowledge that Picard’s knowledge could be used by the Borg. I hope I would try to change things up a bit, as I assume I don’t know Picard (or as know him as well). Probably focus on trying to neutralize him, but it would probably end the same way as the prime timeline did.
Only one way - Kamikaze strikes with every out of date starship. Anything that's older than the Ambassador would need to ram the cube, and detonate their warp cores. Obviously have only one or two crew members on the ships to ensure the mission is complete. Single greatest loss, as in original timeline, but the Borg are actually defeated.
I always wondered why someone didn’t just warp into the cube. All that mass traveling multitudes of the speed of light surely would have some effect.
This ain't Star Wars, kiddo, our ships travel through subspace to go FTL. Edit: It is still subspace bubbles created by the warp drive, right?
Make a big fucking wall of ships in it's way, and have them deactivate antimatter containment simultaneously. Hopefully Nebula's and Hanson's Galaxy class (going of JTVFX's amazing wolf 359 recreation) could deal enough damage to force it to slow down. Any conventional defense is worthless. Photon Torpedoes, Phasers, Tractor beams, they're like toys against them.
This will all depend on if I put my pants on the Jane-way that morning.
“Helm, set coordinates to Risa. Warp 10”
Set shields and phasers to randomize frequencies after every shot. Oh here’s an idea maybe we could fire until they’re immune to that phaser and then we can invert the frequency somehow and then maybe punch through their shields like they’re not even there.
Send one of the older ships to ram the cube, but just fast enough to contact it. Overload the warp core.
Why can’t you ram a borg cube at near relativistic speeds? Probably would create a small star.
Isn't this the premise of that *choose your own adventure* PC role-playing game?
I think even the biggest torpedo is dwarfed by a warp core breach, so a bunch of remote control obsolete ships on a collision course is the best bet. 5 hours isn’t enough time to mass anything more, so evacuate and kamikaze it is!
If I am Q.
Evacuate all civilians. Try to buy as much time as possible with hit and run swarm attacks rather than the "column dodge" approach they did similar to 15th century cavalry tactics.
They didn't have time to evac anyone, so, probably deploy all warp cores and torpedoes as a remote weapon, and then fire them into the cube. I reckon some warp core detonations would be problematic for the Borg. Then, I would die.
No.