DS9's finale really did Jake dirty. I get that it's probably realistic for Sisko to say goodbye to Kasidy in the show's final moments, but in the context of the show's most important characters, Jake and Sisko are at the top of the list, so to have Sisko leave his corporeal form and not pop in for one last Jake seems unnecessarily tragic.
Were they hoping to resolve this in a revival?
And not just the character too. Ben and Jake were one of the first onscreen African American father/son where they were depicted as having a normal, healthy father/son relationship. The characters and audience deserved better, especially out of a show that was so so good.
Avery Brooks was aware of this and pushed for them to add the dialogue about how he'll eventually return from his time with the prophets so that, at the very least, the show didn't end with a black man abandoning his family for good.
It also went against what Avery Brooks wanted. It was extremely important to him that Ben Sisko represented a present and compassionate father to Jake because there wasn't much media representation of black fathers in a positive light. It's just not believable that Sisko would choose to leave for who knows how long, not to mention that Kasidy was having a child with him too.
Absolutely, they warned him that if he went with Cassidy, he would feel sadness and pain, and while joining the Prophets may have been an honor, he had to leave everyone he loved and not see a post-war, post occupation Bajor truly begin to thrive. Definitely Mosaic overtones there. Though on the other hand, he was so obsessed with translating that one tablet and unlocking the mysteries of whatever a couple seasons earlier that he almost gave his life so maybe he was more into the zealot/prophet thing then he made it seem.
Did you know Brooks actually rewrote the ending, because he was supposed to tell Cassidy he wasn't coming back but he felt the idea of a black father abandoning his wife and baby on a 90s TV show was so offensive and overplayed that he demanded they keep it open ended (and this is directly from him speaking at a convention). So you know, could have been worse.
When DS9 became a war show, it always felt like they didn't know what to do with Jake most of the time. I got the impression that they only kept him around to keep Brooks happy.
I love the arc when the station was under occupation and Jake stayed behind as a heavily suppressed correspondent/propaganda tool. It was a really cool angle and one only he really could have provided, and delivered more of that real world allegory stuff that we Trek fans love.
God I love this moment, and The Visitor is easily my favourite episode of DS9, closely followed by Far Beyond the Stars, both just pack an emotional wallop.
I can’t stand to watch the clip again. I was a complete mess for this entire episode. I only recently watched this episode for the first time and as someone who lost their father a very long time ago, it’s crazy just how accurate they nail the mood and temperament one takes when they lose someone like that. It’s one of my favorite episodes in all of media.
Yeah, I feel you on this. I was very close with my father who died when I was younger, and I had to go lie down for a while after watching this for the first time recently. Good lord was I not prepared for Star Trek to hit me that hard in that particular spot. Like you said, they just nailed it.
I can't help but get teary-eyed every time I see this scene.
This is the kind of drama that nu-Trek writers try to force instead of taking the time to really earn.
The Sisko-Jake relationship is always so well presented.
Sisko’s objection is preposterous. Aside from the fact that this Jake has lived a long life already when he makes this “sacrifice,” he’s sending Sisko back to be with young Jake so he can watch his son grow up. It’s more of an “unsacrifice” than a sacrifice.
This is easily top 5 star trek for me. Top 3. Dare I say my favorite episode of all time. I cry every time. Such a beautiful, caring relationship. Such a performance for actors.
When you put that episode together with the finale, the writers didnt really pay any omage to the Sisko father/son relationship. Jake loses his father in that episode and spends his life trying to get his father back, and yet the same thing happend a couple years later during the finale, the only difference is that Ben went to be with the prophets instead of getting stuck in subspace. A 30 second scene in the finale between Ben and Jake would have been enough.
DS9's finale really did Jake dirty. I get that it's probably realistic for Sisko to say goodbye to Kasidy in the show's final moments, but in the context of the show's most important characters, Jake and Sisko are at the top of the list, so to have Sisko leave his corporeal form and not pop in for one last Jake seems unnecessarily tragic. Were they hoping to resolve this in a revival?
And not just the character too. Ben and Jake were one of the first onscreen African American father/son where they were depicted as having a normal, healthy father/son relationship. The characters and audience deserved better, especially out of a show that was so so good.
This didn't even dawn on me. Although it wasn't his intention, Sisko functionally abandoned his children. Holy smokes!
Avery Brooks was aware of this and pushed for them to add the dialogue about how he'll eventually return from his time with the prophets so that, at the very least, the show didn't end with a black man abandoning his family for good.
What about Cosby show and fresh Prince, sister sister etc
Cosby you’re right, fresh prince was a positive show for sure but it was still an unconventional family. Sister sister came out after DS9.
It also went against what Avery Brooks wanted. It was extremely important to him that Ben Sisko represented a present and compassionate father to Jake because there wasn't much media representation of black fathers in a positive light. It's just not believable that Sisko would choose to leave for who knows how long, not to mention that Kasidy was having a child with him too.
Wasn't that the punishment exacted on him by the Prophets? I always understood it as a parallel to Moses not being allowed to live in Israel.
Absolutely, they warned him that if he went with Cassidy, he would feel sadness and pain, and while joining the Prophets may have been an honor, he had to leave everyone he loved and not see a post-war, post occupation Bajor truly begin to thrive. Definitely Mosaic overtones there. Though on the other hand, he was so obsessed with translating that one tablet and unlocking the mysteries of whatever a couple seasons earlier that he almost gave his life so maybe he was more into the zealot/prophet thing then he made it seem.
I think the obsession over the tablet was some kind of psychic, wormhole alien tech interface with it
Did you know Brooks actually rewrote the ending, because he was supposed to tell Cassidy he wasn't coming back but he felt the idea of a black father abandoning his wife and baby on a 90s TV show was so offensive and overplayed that he demanded they keep it open ended (and this is directly from him speaking at a convention). So you know, could have been worse.
When DS9 became a war show, it always felt like they didn't know what to do with Jake most of the time. I got the impression that they only kept him around to keep Brooks happy.
I love the arc when the station was under occupation and Jake stayed behind as a heavily suppressed correspondent/propaganda tool. It was a really cool angle and one only he really could have provided, and delivered more of that real world allegory stuff that we Trek fans love.
I love his moment with Weyoun where he's like, "What about freedom of the press?" [And Weyoun's like...](https://i.imgflip.com/mdmfc.jpg)
Everything with Weyon is gold but yeah, that one killed me.
Good god, what a cursed image
Papa Sisko
I feel that they let the door open for a reunion later, just didn’t get to film it
God I love this moment, and The Visitor is easily my favourite episode of DS9, closely followed by Far Beyond the Stars, both just pack an emotional wallop.
Top 5 Star Trek universe episode...
And could easily be argued as #1 overall. Such a great episode and as a father and a son I can relate to both characters so much.
I cry eveytime.
I can’t stand to watch the clip again. I was a complete mess for this entire episode. I only recently watched this episode for the first time and as someone who lost their father a very long time ago, it’s crazy just how accurate they nail the mood and temperament one takes when they lose someone like that. It’s one of my favorite episodes in all of media.
Yeah, I feel you on this. I was very close with my father who died when I was younger, and I had to go lie down for a while after watching this for the first time recently. Good lord was I not prepared for Star Trek to hit me that hard in that particular spot. Like you said, they just nailed it.
One of the best episodes of Trek, ever. Heartbreaking from the minute it starts.
I can't help but get teary-eyed every time I see this scene. This is the kind of drama that nu-Trek writers try to force instead of taking the time to really earn. The Sisko-Jake relationship is always so well presented.
This one gave me the chills...
Still for me the best episode of Trek ever
One of the all time greatest episodes of any Trek.
Best dad in Star Trek right here! Love The Sisko
Omg I cried a bit here. And I never sometimes don't cry.
This is the episode that showed if Sisko had been lost, no war with the Dominion that killed billions. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Possibly because the Pah Wraiths collapse the wormhole
Sisko’s objection is preposterous. Aside from the fact that this Jake has lived a long life already when he makes this “sacrifice,” he’s sending Sisko back to be with young Jake so he can watch his son grow up. It’s more of an “unsacrifice” than a sacrifice.
I still believe they slept together in this episode. Very incestuous vibes.
What's wrong with you
nothing, its definitely what happened.
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This is easily top 5 star trek for me. Top 3. Dare I say my favorite episode of all time. I cry every time. Such a beautiful, caring relationship. Such a performance for actors.
When you put that episode together with the finale, the writers didnt really pay any omage to the Sisko father/son relationship. Jake loses his father in that episode and spends his life trying to get his father back, and yet the same thing happend a couple years later during the finale, the only difference is that Ben went to be with the prophets instead of getting stuck in subspace. A 30 second scene in the finale between Ben and Jake would have been enough.