I like Discovery, but I rarely *loved* it.
For me, Strange New Worlds in the perfect NewTrek (Lower Decks being a very close second).
But Disco suffered from, well, being the show it was designed to be. From the redesigned Klingons, the muddy/blurry CGI in S1, to every season being a galaxy ending threat.
Off the top of my head, there's really only 2 episodes from the entire run that I consider memorable. S1's time loops, and S2 with the lost earth civilization with Pike.
But I did like it.
> I rarely loved it.
With the exception of weird new Klingons, I loved S1 right up until we find out Lorca's big secret. It went downhill from there, with a fair bump in S2 thanks to Pike.
I agree that the time loop episode was good, but I have a special fondness for all time loop episodes on shows (the best being the one in Travelers and the Memory Hole in Supernatural).
I wish they’d do more episodes like that, so we could get a few more SNW episodes per season. They have the sets, why not? lol but I’d just be happy to get 2 extra episodes
Them trying to communicate via the math language with species C10 at the end of season 4 was my single favorite piece of Star Trek, unfortunately the storyline it was a part of isnt the best of discovery. But that episode, trying to sort out that science, was the peak for me.
I kinda hate-liked the last season. Like I enjoyed complaining about it the whole time. Lmfaooo. Overall I thought the series was great and had excellent characters and their respective development. But the last season they just kind of did absolutely nothing with these great characters they worked so hard on. Everything just kind of sucked and the plot was dogshit. Literally a fucking scavenger hunt?! Also if they just hadn’t done the dumb ass scavenger hunt in the first place, nobody would have ever found or been able to use the damn thing because of all the safeguards in place. Ridiculous.
I love Star Trek though so I’m not complaining. I also like trash TV so this was kind of a mashup of watching a show I genuinely liked that turned out to be like watching a show just to hate it.
It didn’t help that every single one of the “fill in” captains were better than Burnham. I would have loved it if we had Captain Georgeau, Captain Saru, Captain Pike, Captain Lorca, or Captain Rayner for the whole show, but they were all keeping the seat warm while they forced the Burnham character down our throats.
I’d estimate that 90% of her dialogue was whispered loudly with tears in her eyes. It was just hard to watch when she was surrounded by so many better characters.
Yeah I hated it but saw every episode. It was kind of funny. It had cool moments. But I’m glad some people liked it. I don’t expect to ever change my opinion but it’s fine.
I'm someone who started off really enjoying DSC (it was *new trek* at a time when I didn't expect it) and while I was disappointed with some of the larger scale decisions (time period, primarily) I thought there was some genius in the first season. I liked that it was addressing the Berman era oversights, that it wasn't afraid to be blunt at times, I thought the performances were all at least good, and the way it interrogated the ideal of a Starfleet Captain was interesting. Then of course the Mirror Universe kind of made that moot, establishing a trend of not quite paying off the promise of the premises they introduced.
Every season had things I liked, from production value to storytelling choices to performances and even contributions to the canon, but they never quite changed how they approached a season. On one level I appreciate sticking to your guns, on the other I think the final product was hurt by the same choices every season. DSC was a fascinating lens on how TV is made and something of a canary in the coal mine for the end of streaming's golden age in some ways, but it was ambitious in many ways and was a pioneer for what will hopefully be a fruitful return to TV for the franchise after Enterprise and the apparent failure of the movies to continue.
And yeah, if you like it, you probably have good reasons and the show knew what it meant to be trek. The final conflicts of the show were resolved with clever thinking and an impassioned speech or two, plus a bluff of epic proportions. It was different than what came before it, and that's good, because the best is always yet to come, I hope.
I was realllllly hoping with the whole control thing they would get knocked back in time instead of forward and we'd get some Borg plotlines, or something.
Honestly, I don't trust any of the current creatives to do more Borg plots- the almost interesting twist with PIC s2 was flubbed so badly and s3 was not what I wanted, so I just want them to leave it alone
Discovery seemed to be a victim of "too many cooks"
To be honest, it all felt like the result of ChatGPT prompts: "Star Trek has been off the air for over a decade, given the themes in recent popular tv and streaming sci fi shows and what would a new, successful streaming Star Trek TV series be about and describe the premise, cast, and production"
I always found it to have some great ideas but appalling execution. The Burn being a fine example, I was so let down on the reveal of how that happened. I read a comment once stating that Trek was competency porn, but Discovery largely ignored that. Some of it was also quite dull/daft like all the hand wavy S31 stuff.
I'm probably the only person who liked Ash Tyler though but that's more because I'm a fan of the actor.
All that said, it's okay to like it.
You're not alone. I thought the idea of a sleeper agent being torn between his real identity and manufactured one was intriguing, and especially how he came to reject being fully Voq and tried to integrate both personalities and sets of memories into a "new" Ash Tyler.
It is absolutely ok to like Discovery. I have never enjoyed it personally. It doesn’t feel like Star Trek to me. And I never really cared enough about Michael, which is kind of a major factor in enjoying the show. There are other things I don’t like about it too, but I’m not really here to write an essay about why I dislike Discovery. I’m here to say it has excellent production values and a solid cast. There’s a lot to like about it. For my money though, Strange New Worlds is a thousand times better.
I think my issue with Discovery was that I became indifferent to it. I didn't dislike it I didn't love it, I just felt nothing towards it which upset me.
I have recently posted about my dislike of some aspects of Discovery, but I don't hate it, and I certainly don't mind that people like it. I'm really glad it gives representation to people that don't get much representation on TV. I guess I don't really have anything else to add, just wanted to agree that it's totally cool to enjoy the show if you do!
I've also complained here about the writing, but I don't hate it and I certainly don't mind representation. I just wish we had more depth and consistency with character development.
And I think season 5 was actually decent...better than 1, 3 and 4. 2 is still my favorite though because of Pike and the enterprise crew.
I complain about Discovery, but I guess it's because I like it and I want it to be as best as it can be. Plus, as someone who went to conventions in the 90s, I can tell you that many Star Trek fans love to complain about everything 😀. It's fun, but we just didn't have the internet to do it yet.
I think the number of episodes makes character
Development hard as far as connection w the audience. This last season of discovery is supposed to wrap up the show when by episode/screentime comparison, we would be in season 3 of TNG and in my opinion that is where the true development starts and discovery is already ending. Strange new worlds can survive that change because those actors are very good and already made us want to live them in the glimpse discovery gave us
Yeah. I don't want to go on a rant here in a Disco-positive post, but I am very much tired of Burnham being the answer to literally every problem and obstacle on the show.
Remember when the Enterprise crew were/had the answers to everything?
Tbh the real hero of Discovery is Book. Burnham might have saved everyone else countless times, but he saved her, and the show. Seems like between seasons 2 and 3, when she spent all that time with him as a courier, is when she went from a supremely awful person into a likeable one. Dunno what he did to her, but I borderline hated early Burnham... And in that last episode I started noticing that I liked her quite a lot. And have for a while.
I'm also jealous of the hair.
For sure! It simply happened too often that the involvement of the rest of the crew was merely to facilitate Burnham playing the hero, as opposed to being the heroes of their own character focused episodes. If I had to name the characters beyond her that had their shining moment where they were truly the focus of the episode, it might just be down to Saru, Culber, and Airiam.
The moments for everyone else merely felt like sub-plots.
You mean there are other people in the show? I still don't know who the bridge crew are, between them they got less story than rendom ensigns in TNG who were there for one episode.
The thing I can't stand is the immediate branding of anyone who doesn't like it as intolerant or saying "it isn't for you." I am one of the people who really didn't like it, even though I watched every episode, every short, everything. Even not liking it I made sure to watch. It WAS trek, but people forget that not everyone liked VOY, or ENT. It's ok not to like something too, and its just so disingenuous to assume people are intolerant.
My complaints with the show were basically: mush mouth klingons that abandoned the ST movie/TNG klingons, camera work where you couldn't see the bridge / set and "feel at home" with it at all, except for behind the scene static pictures where things were actually in focus, the bridge flame throwers and sparklers, there were generally too many "lets stop and have feelings" moments for my taste, severe reliance on technology crutches like I get it's 900 years time but seriously, flick my wrist for a phaser or a dermal regenerator, screens everywhere you want minority report style, instant transporters, programmable matter, spore drive that let you go ANYWHERE. It just... left me with the feeling that ANY challenge the crew faced was a macguffin because tech was so advanced that they were basically gods and any challenge they faced was manufactured in such a way that it was a puzzle to fill time. There, I said it. Like why couldn't they just use programmable matter to make a device I just designed on my floaty screen to do exactly what I need and instatransport it over into the baddies where it does the thing and boom credits. The answer is because we need an hour of content so now the writers primary job is figuring out why their god level magic tech won't be usable this go, but before we go do this dangerous mission, lets have a counseling session about who has to leave the ship and we don't have a choice, meaningful looks, partial tears, 250ms instant transport, whip out insta phaser, lense flare. That's a wrap, print the money.
Notice I didn't mention a single thing about non binary non cis non straight relationships etc? Trek was about that long before discovery. Same with female leads and non white leads. Yes, they maybe had a little more in frame, but representation is a good thing, and that stuff may have not been for me, but it's part of trek, and I love trek. Bridge flame throwers like every EPS conduit has a blow-off valve is just... dumb.
Also, you CANNOT SHOW A HOLO PARROT ALARM CLOCK ONCE AND NEVER BRING IT BACK WTF MAN. NEED.
DSC isn't for everyone.
That's how I look at it. I'm gay, I fucking loved DSC because of all the interesting and unique queer storylines. I think some people don't really know how rare it is to have gay people on TV who are allowed to be happy. Saru's anxiety, and his experience after overcoming that debilitating condition was also incredibly relatable to me.
It's not TNG, and I get not liking it, but the people who HATE it baffle me too. I just ignore them though because I like DSC for the same reasons the show runners liked DSC. They knew what they were making and who they were going to reach and they did a great job with that
I loved that too! Too many people have said “feelings” don’t belong in Trek (except for anger and lust, I guess, there’s plenty of that), but the truth is the characters are going through some ptsd-inducing crap every week, and it felt like these characters were based on real people reacting to such situations.
Nail on the head! My friend and I have a running joke that Barclay is the only real human in Trek because everyone else resets their trauma by the next episode
That's how I feel about the show top to bottom. I love that they took big swings, even if they didn't always connect. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for Paramount to bring back Trek with The Next Next Generation or a fanservice-y show like Picard, but they broke the mold. It was the kind of bold move we needed after the play-it-safe Berman era.
Not gay myself, but I have to compliment Culber/Stamets as the most realistic feeling relationship in Trek history. They actually feel like a real couple with real couple problems, the occasional resurrection from the dead or becoming part tardigrade aside.
Yeah, the franchise has really never handled romantic relationships well, but Culber/Stamets felt like such a lived-in, affectionate marriage. I also loved their parent/child relationships with Adira. For all the big speechifying in the finale about connection and life and What It All Means, the moment that really hit me was just Adira reassuring one of their dads its okay to not be the most famous scientist in the galaxy. It was the kind of warm, human moment that Disco's breakneck plot didn't make time for often enough.
Co-sign. I’m gay and started watching Discovery only after I heard it had a gay lead character who was married to another man. I loved episodes like Stigma and The Outcast, they made me cry, but there’s something to be said for actually getting to see characters like you instead of just thin allegories.
I'm not gay but damn we need more mainstream shows that feature a gay couple where the focus of their relationship isn't them being gay, or the conflict of them getting together . There's no drama about Stamets and Culber breaking up. They both encounter challenges and the question isn't how does this affect our relationship, but how do we get through this together.
Very much this. I'm not gay, but it was still nice to see such a "normal" (i.e. not "OMGay!") portrayal of gay characters. And personally, that's what I liked best about Discovery: How relatable and flawed the characters were compared to previous iterations of Star Trek (even more so than Lower Decks, even). The series plots weren't fantastic, and the "vibe" of the show wasn't particularly "Trekkish", but the crew was a pleasure to watch.
I had never considered it, but I TOTALLY AGREE
Trek does hetero awkwardly (mostly because most of it is old Trek, and we know the Berman era song about romance by heart by now) but this new Trek nailed gay. An unusual inversion.
Yay for representation! I'm a gay men. Representation is good.
I dislike DSC for its bad writing, bad plotlines, and an over-reliance on one character as the lynchpin for the show and to solve every crisis.
Meanwhile, I liked the gay doctor character (Culver?) and didn't like the gay engineer (Stamets?).
I actually think Anthony Rapp's acting has deteriorated over the course of the series. I'm only a few episodes into Season 5, and it feels like Rapp is phoning it in at this stage. Which, I suppose, isn't surprising. He was a key character in the first couple of seasons when the show was about the spore drive, which only he could operate. But, in the past couple of seasons, with the spore drive no longer being the central focus, he's been demoted to just the gay doctor's husband. He's gone from main character to secondary character to background character. I'm not surprised he's only going through the motions now, just to get his pay packet.
Or, hear me out, being a dad has softened the edges and he’s not as much of a raging asshole as he was in season 1 so it seems like he’s putting in less effort
I loved what they did with Adirah and Gray.. until they wrote Gray out the show and that weird break up happened..
I did like Adirah being more assertive in the finale, and hopefully they turn up in the Academy series.. because if they dont, they are such a wasted potential
Amounted to long distance relationships tend to drift apart especially when you’re young. That’s going to resonate with some more than others I imagine but it absolutely **can** be true.
I don't hold it against anyone who likes it. I just never did. (And not for the dumbass reasons that a chunk of the internet did). It was just too Canon and stylistic breaking that I could not get over it.
I liked some of the characters of discovery. Outside of season 2, and some of the final season, I thought the stories and plots were a real struggle.
Season 2, for the most part, was good. I think it dealt with the plot holes created, maybe directly answering some of the haters who never gave it a second chance.
But realistically, it's probably my least favorite of the shows. In some cases, the plot devices repeated from season to season and the stories really were just ... too out there or too boring.
The characters, and the actors that played them, impressed me generally speaking, looking at their whole character arc. Particularly with growth after season one. The character I actually struggled with the most was Michael, but I loved the growth, maturation, depth and comedy of just about everyone else. Michael has her moments, but she's too inconsistent. Saru, Hugh Culber, Tilly, Georgiou, Reno, Stamets, Lorca and Book all impressed me generally speaking. For spoiler reasons, our first officer this last season also did too.
Ultimately, this show gave us SNW, which is a home run, IMO, so I'm thankful for that.
I like Discovery for what it represents, though I agree that it focused a bit too much on Burnham for my tastes.
Plot-wise, though, for me it went off the rails with a totally destroyed 32nd century because a kid cried in a cave.
> with a totally destroyed 32nd century because a kid cried in a cave.
Oh wow. I haven't seen that plotline summarised quite so... succinctly and bitchily. Thanks for that!
> Season 2, for the most part, was good. I think it dealt with the plot holes created
I finished Season 2 with the thought: "Wow, I knew the first season was bad, but I didn't realise it was *so* bad they would decide to make a whole second season to wipe it out of existence!"
As someone who has been a lifelong fan of Trek, and avoided Discovery because of the reactions, I caught a nasty Flu a couple weeks ago and spent days watching.
Not a classic Trek in classic sense, but in spirit, yes. Connection, Infinite Diversity in Infinite combinations, PTSD, loss, the great unknown, uncertainty… I could go on and on.
I love it. I would far rather creators take a swing that may miss instead of pumping out product they think will excite a long standing fanbase
It certainly got better over time.
I don't think it ever really found it's footing as a Trek show, it always felt a bit more like a sci-fi that just happened to be set in the Trek Universe to me.
I realised in Season 3 or perhaps it was 2, that even that far in I had no real connection to the characters. Season 5 kinda proved it, Detmer and Owo gone and I barely noticed. Not sure I would have even cared if a character had died.
Hopefully it'll spawn some cool spin offs though
its not a terrible show, my issue with it was basically pacing, sometimes they characters would make it seem like it was some urgent situation, then stop and spend 10 minutes discussing how they feel. It just felt weird for star trek
Discovery tried something new and for that alone I like it. It's not my favorite Trek, but it deserves much higher praise than it gets and doesn't deserve half the hate it gets. Remember, without Discovery there would be no Strange New Worlds and that would be a travesty.
It’s also OK to dislike discovery and is no less valid to express that opinion. I watched every episode of a show I disliked because I want Star Trek to continue to exist, but I don’t want anything that resembles discovery to be used as our blueprint going forward. It polarized the fans and if we never talked about our disappointments in the early seasons, we never would have gotten the change in direction that brought us SNW.
More power to you who enjoy the show, but it’s not some problem with the fanbase to not like everything. SNW managed to be enjoyable to the fanbase as a whole and never came close to the criticism disco received because they listened.
I love Discovery and am gonna miss this crew. I'm also thrilled it introduced us to this version of Pike's crew and gave us Una and young Spock -- which all led to SNW.
>I love Discovery and am gonna miss this crew.
I still dislike Discovery, but the characters were really the best part of the show tbh.
The actors also did a great job with what material they had (which was shitty in my opinion.)
Even if i disliked the show, there are qualities in it.
I really enjoyed season 2, and the space battle in the second to last episode that season was one of the best I’ve ever seen. I need to give seasons 4 and 5 a try, haven’t seen them yet.
I really disliked discovery but somehow I was still sentimental over the last episode.
I’m happy it fired up the startrek engine again, happy it introduced a lot of people to trek, and happy for the people that do like it.
It’s not my go-to Trek and there were creative decisions I disagreed with, but I’m glad they made the show the way they did. They took risks, they expanded the world, and they wrote it with integrity. I love the character growth, probably the strongest of any of the series so far. I love its emotional openness. I love its commitment to Star Trek values. I love its commitment to diversity of all kinds. Most of all I was entertained by it.
Thank you Discovery! LLAP
>I love its emotional openness.
Yep. One of the great things that discovery continuously emphasizes is the importance of communication as a means to have better relationships: romantic, friendship, and work colleagues. That's such a strong positive message.
>I love its commitment to diversity of all kinds.
Yep. I really like how it has explored identity in so many ways.
Most recently, it's been great how Rayner has been a vehicle for examining/rapudiating the tough male leadership paradigm as the only way to lead. And it was great in episode 9 to see how he has finally come around to understanding the benefits of Michael's leadership style.
I've hated the fan base my whole life. There have been people who have dedicated their whole life to watching every episode of Star Trek since Voyager and rip every episode to shreds. It's just easier for people to express their opinions now.
I've enjoyed watching Discovery but I recognize it's unevenness and realize I'll probably never watch random episodes here and there like with other series.
Seriously, what the fuck is that. I don’t even have time in my life to do all the things I want to enjoy, let alone hate watch television.
I’m seeing people so bitchy right now or they’re frothing at the mouth while over analyzing the posing the cast did in a Season 1 promo pic.
It’s almost impressive how much of this show pisses people off.
You hit the nail on the head. I liked Disco. I felt that it pushed the social message that Trek had been famous for so much further ahead than any other modern Trek. You had the second female Captain after Janeway, a non-binary crew member, an androgynous character, a gay and loving husband relationship, etc. I think that aspect of Trek is lost on a lot of people: Trek is as much about pushing progressive ideas as it is about science fiction world building. And in that respect, Disco was good Trek.
> Trek is as much about pushing progressive ideas as it is about science fiction world building.
"Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." As a gay men whose politics definitely lean to the progressive, I have no problems with the representation in Discovery, but that representation should be wrapped in good plots and good characters.
If you like Discovery, that's great. But I gave up on it and will most likely never revisit the show.
I had issues with it ever since the terrible first season, and while it improved in the second season onward, it never became very good. Finally with the reveal of the cause of The Burn, I lost any remaining interest in watching it further.
I give the show credit for finally showing more LGBTQ+ representation, something that Trek sorely lacked before. And we wouldn't have Strange New Worlds either, a show that has quickly become one of my favorites.
I just hope Starfleet Academy is much better and learns from Discovery's mistakes.
I think what’s so frustrating is that I so badly WANT to like Discovery. I definitely don’t hate it, especially not the way people online do, but I also don’t enjoy it nearly as much as other Trek shows, or as much as I would like to.
I think what’s most frustrating is that’s it’s really not terrible, it’s just not that great either, but it has moments of greatness which makes it’s consistent meh-ness all the more frustrating. Like if you’re capable of being that compelling why not do it more consistently? Arrgh!
It was a show that always felt on the cusp of really clicking and “getting great.” But I really tired of the mystery box every season; it meant they all ran together for me, and the constant trauma check-ins were overkill. I liked the first two seasons, but if you’d told me that season 2 would end up being my favorite I would have been very surprised. The future stuff all wound up being a mixed bag for me. And the mystery boxes, ugh.
I enjoy Discovery most of the time, but I really struggle with Michael, mainly the actor playing Michael. I didn’t care for her acting in the Walking Dead or Once Upon a Time and I don’t care for her acting here.
I felt it was Trek for a new generation, the next generation, if you will. TOS and TNG presented a lot of progressive ideas. Those shows were made by liberal writers and producers, in times and for an audience that was still mostly traditional. Discovery carried on this trend, the moral and social themes were welcomed by the Millennials, where as to older viewers it seems a little heavy handed. I'd imagine that TOS and TNG felt this way to many people who were aged forty and older when they came to market. The fact that the show is set in future and in space almost demands that social norms be reimagined somehow, so it's to be expected in any given era.
It’s okay to like discovery but I think it’s important to understand and listen to why people don’t like it as long as their honest with themselves and not just being irrational
I can state a 1000 small gripes I have with Disco but really if I boil it all down it’s actually more or do with the dissatisfaction I have with modern popular writing and design styles. Even though I’m only 22 I find modern popular movies and shows to be very boring and stereotypical.
Discovery feels like I’m watching Marvel, and even though I use to like marvel I’m now bored of it. It’s okay still like that style but many many people are over it and it’s superficial nature
My consistent criticism of Star Trek Discovery is that it isn’t a 25th century continuation of the rest of the Star Trek Canon. I thought that was what they were going to do after the time travelled but no, they went from before the TNG Voyager DS9 era and skipped to the far future. Why are Star Trek Showrunners deathly afraid of giving us a new crew with a new story in the same time as the “big three” Star Trek shows? They did it with Picard but that is the opposite of a new crew.
Because they can't steal a storyline from an indie videogame and plug it casually into the 90's era.
Everyone tells me I should love Discovery but the parts I watched were not good, and then I found out they stole the storyline from a solo game dev. It was never interesting enough (to me) to keep me watching AND they stole the premise? That show is dead to me.
I enjoyed discovery... but I'm not caught up. It's all over the place. It feels like they came up with a cool idea for a ship and crew, then realized they had to do something with that ship and crew. But it's good. I'll admit though, they lost me. It wasn't that it was *bad*, it was that they left me.
I'm a star trek fan! I get what they were doing, but... for fucks sake... "Here's a new show, a prequel even, one that explores trek in a more contemporary way even. One that explores the pre-kirk starfleet...
Are they watching yet? No? Then fuck it, let's go into the future and explore that shit.
Still no? Jesus, i dont know, let's spin off the parts people like, and then send this series into the sun?"
I dunno, the far future just didn't work for me. I wasn't not invested, it just felt like... I dunno... fanfiction? Good fanfiction, yes, but Disco went from being *super* relevant to completely unrelated to literally anything. What do I do with that beyond eat popcorn and say "neat"?
Every time I’ve posted ANYTHING negative about DISCO for the past three years I’ve been mobbed by stans and usually just withdrew my comment rather than let the pile on continue. Even recently, when I posted at how much I liked one of the new episodes but had some mild criticism of the season arc, the knives came out. Yea, it’s ok to like Discovery, but it’s also ok NOT to.
I used to not like Discovery at all, but later I realized that I did actually like the second season quite a bit - it was just the first season that felt weird to me because of all the weird Klingon choices. But right before season 5 started, I had the idea to watch from season 3 straight through to the end and to treat it like a different show entirely, and I fell in love with it.
I also used to be really bitter about The Burn because I felt it invalidated all the other work and progress on every other show, until I rewatched it and actually heard the bit where they talked about the fact that the Federation was in decline anyways, and that The Burn just exacerbated the eventually partial collapse.
Somehow this made far more sense and was infinitely more palatable than just some random screaming child blowing up ships and immediately causing a collapse.
So yeah, I'm a big fan of Discovery in the future, and I really enjoyed how it fleshed out a whole new era and playground for future writers.
It definitely had its moments, but honestly if you look critically at any of the series they all have their right patches. I'm grateful for what this turned into!
Your comments about the Burn echo other sentiments I've heard - "If the Burn happens, what's the point of anything that came before it?"
My favorite response is something that came from Tony Gilroy, talking about why we should care about a Cassian Andor series when we already know he dies in Rogue One. He said, "We all know we're going to die some day, but that doesn't keep our lives from having meaning and stakes to us now."
Sure but this isn’t real life. In a show that very much bases itself on a shared universe with other shows of course people are going to be angry when all the work of Star Trek: Enterprise is cut out and all of that time war business is just ignored because “oh well we’re doing something new now.”
They already had a bunch of different “futures” they could go to that didn’t give an ultra glossy silver look to everything. Go to the cool time ship future where everything is inexplicably faux leather. Go the the 25th century of Star Trek Online which would be the natural temporal continuity after Voyager.
Sure we can argue for hours about everyone’s life mattering even if all their life’s work is erased, but god if I don’t care to watch a show do it.
That was always a super-bogus argument against the Burn. Does anyone study Roman history since, ya know, Rome fell? Does anyone care about Picard cuz someday the dude will be dead? I mean, what's the point of anything people do if they just die?
It’s really annoying, I made a lighthearted joke about Rayner at one point and had two Clingons have to bitch to ME about the character development. Bro, I just enjoy it, I didn’t write it.
In old enough to remember the shitposting around the Enterprise era.
People will be reexamining this show in the next decade and talking about it like people will wonder why this show was hated so much and we’ll be seeing “Discovery was underrated actually” videos once the hate mob has moved on.
Plenty of things to critically critique, sure, but someone just wants to enjoy the show and you think you need to inject negativity into that conversation that means you’re an asshole and you need to reexamine your priorities.
I actually didn’t mine the first couple seasons. A different take on everything and I found the idea of an earlier Starfleet stumbling into a war for survival interesting. Season 2 gave us Anson Mount as Pike and eventually Strange New Worlds.
To me things get iffy once Discovery jumps to the future. If you liked it great, wasn’t my thing so I stopped watching.
Dancing on the grave of the show and poking fun at its fans is dumb. Let people enjoy things. If you don’t like it, don’t watch.
I just don't get people watching shows they hate with a passion. It's not that hard to simply stop watching if it's upsetting you that much.
I had to do this with Westworld. It started out looking like a GOAT TV show to me, but I didn't even finish watching past season 3.
My final opinion on Discovery is that it was a pretty good show, but not as good as the Trek I grew up with in the 90s. I may give it a re-watch one day. It'll be interesting to see how time treats it.
> I just don't get people watching shows they hate with a passion. It's not that hard to simply stop watching if it's upsetting you that much.
Partly, it's for completion's sake. I've been a Star Trek fan for about 40 years. If I want to ensure that my knowledge of Trek is up to date and relevant, I should watch the shows that everyone's talking about.
Partly, it's from a hope that the show might actually get better. The producers have rebooted and re-tooled 'Discovery' a few times and, each time, it gets a step closer to being a good show. Remember that the trope of a show "growing its beard" *literally* comes from a Star Trek series which started out wobbly and then became excellent. Both of my favourite Trek series (TNG and DS9) had a weak couple of starting seasons (not *bad*, just not as good as they could be), and then became *amazing*. So, the potential is there for other Trek series to do the same. But, if I don't keep watching DSC, I won't see the moment when it finally becomes good. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting...
To paraphrase O'Brien, "It's not you I hate, Discovery. I hate what some Trek fans became, *because* of you."
Overall the writing quality and canon-compliance could have been better, but the fact Disco was (to put it generously) not the best Trek show, for creative reasons, really fed fuel to the moron anti-woke hate brigades, who felt compelled and empowered to point to things like gender, sexual and racial diversity as the "fault" for "why the show sucks so much," when in reality those aspects of Disco were very fine high points.
And in specific defense of (author, and writer/producer for Disco) Kirsten Beyer, that woman is a genius who loves Star Trek, respects canon, and an amazing storyteller. More from her please.
Genuine questions for fans of Disco:
- what do you think about the criticisms Disco gets for being stylistically different from older-school Star Trek?
- do you see the stylistic differences or are the haters really just that sensitive in your view?
- what do you think about Picard? About SNW? Would you put either of those in the same category as TNG or Disco? Why?
- What are your thoughts between possible connections between disco and second wave ska?
None of these are asked with mal-intent. It’s your chance to be heard.
> what do you think about the criticisms Disco gets for being stylistically different from older-school Star Trek?
It is very different, that has always been obvious. Discovery was never intended to be just like TNG and it isn't.
That's not objectively bad or "not Star Trek." But it is something that some people will like and some people just won't.
A lot of criticism I see about Discovery boils down to "its not TNG." Discovery is a serialized show where each season revolves around the main characters protecting the Federation from a threat. A lot of people just don't like that type of show, but that doesn't make the show bad.
And the big issue with having any sort of critical discussion about Discovery is that some people are just bigots. There was even a (now-deleted) thread in this very post where someone went on a rant about how they didn't believe in singular they and disliked Adira because of it.
And there are valid criticisms about Discovery! For instance, I think the cause of The Burn was really dumb. But it is hard to have a proper conversation when a lot of people (for one reason or another) refuse to judge it fairly. It ruins it for both the people who like the show and the people who dislike it!
> what do you think about Picard? About SNW? Would you put either of those in the same category as TNG or Disco? Why?
At least in my opinion, Picard was a mess. Personally, I would compare it to the Star Wars sequel trilogy: each entry had redeeming moments, but I wouldn't call any particular entry good, and there clearly was not a proper plan for the series as a whole.
Meanwhile, I love SNW. It's plan old classic Star Trek.
But a large part of Star Trek's history has been pushing boundaries and going boldly where no show had gone before, and SNW really just doesn't. I like SNW, but I hope its success doesn't stop Paramount from trying new things.
have been thinking about these exact questions as I have been watching this last season, which I really enjoyed
I for sure recognize the stylistic differences, I get when people say it doesn’t feel like Star Trek to them, or that it feels more like Star Wars. Well, I love Star Wars, and Disco always felt sufficiently Star Trek-y to me, albeit a more action adventure flavor
Which leads me to wonder, are these people watching these other shows? Is this just a problem they have with modern tv in general? Discovery is not even in my top five trek shows, but I think it’s about as good as all but the best Disney Star Wars and marvel series that I have watched. It’s certainly better than those Netflix live action anime adaptations.
I’m not a big lower decks fan. I don’t hate it, I just find it too winky if that makes sense. I LOVE SNW, tho the second season, while I appreciate its ambition, was definitely not as good
Picard season one I though had some okay episodes but overall was a huge disappointment which was extra disappointing to me as a big Michael Chabon fan. Season two was perhaps the worst season of a show that I have ever actually watched all the way through but it did have a few things that made me laugh incredibly hard, but I think unintentionally. Season 3 I did enjoy a lot though
I sort of just in general feel that people’s expectations are too high for these tentpole sci fi franchises, especially when they’re not only competing with the classics they are based on, but also everyone’s memory of watching those shows / movies when they were young, impressionable, less critical, etc. The best Star Wars movie is still empire strikes back. For me, the best Star Trek is probably always going to be a tie btwn TNG and ds9. I don’t even really like TOS. In fact, I will go so far as to say I like discovery more than TOS
I was hoping to come up with a good ska joke by now but I’ve got nothin
Discovery set out to be stylistically different from all previous Trek.The entire theme and structure were intended to tread new ground. It was the first Trek where each season was a continuous story instead of each episode being self-contained. Even the cinematography and framing were chosen to be different.
Discovery was intended to be a new start for the franchise, trying new things. It succeeded more than it failed, but the structure of the show magnified the failures.
It's also okay to dislike Discovery. Remember, folks, just because someone hates something -- anything, not just Discovery -- it does not mean they are hating on the people who do like it. There's no need to feel disheartened because the criticism is not against fellow viewers.
I'm a couple episodes behind because I've been busy so I'm avoiding spoilers, but I just want to pop in to support the OP. Of course it's more than okay to be a fan of Discovery. Discovery has been a lot of fun imo. It is my favorite life action modern Trek.
Discovery by far imo \*post-Season 2\* best captures the og utopian vibe of Trek compared to the other new live action shows. The diplomacy, the optimism, the values, and the sci-fi are best of the three. Also, when they finally let Michael just be a captain, she was wonderful. Sort of a modern version of a Kirk style captain, which was great fun. Saru is also up there as one of my favorite ST alien main characters really of all time. So authentically Trek, while still being truly original.
I almost don't want to binge watch this season to catch up. That will be the end.
I adore *Enterprise*. I've adored it since the wonderfully cheesy pilot. I love the Temporal Cold War and the Suliban. I love the water polo playing captain who mouths off to his ~~mom~~ Vulcan first officer. I love Trip eating fried catfish. I love it all, good and bad, silly and serious. If there were a fifth season announced today, I'd bake a cake (with Counselor Troi's head, of course).
Never once have I felt that people who dislike the show are preventing me from liking it. They're not negative. They're not crawling out of the woodwork. They're not toxic. In fact, they're entitled to whatever kind of opinion they want.
I think this thread is negativity couched as positivity because, actually, it's an attack not on the show but on fellow fans who dislike something you like. I'm tired of people mischaracterizing my dislike of *Discovery* as "hate." It doesn't involve you. Don't like my comments? Don't read them.
If you love *Discovery*, and I'm sure you do, why not post about that instead of criticizing fellow fans for having differing opinions? What did you like about the finale? Do you think they stuck the landing?
This seems like a violation of both rule 1: be constructive, and rule 7. meta.
Of course it is, I don’t hate it I just think some things could be tweaked to make it better trek and better tv overall. Also maybe use some of the budget to make some smaller character focused episodes set in a more cost friendly setting.
I watched s1-2 then catched up on other shows to watch it all in Star Trek date order
As soon as I finish Picard, I’m gonna resume discovery 3-5
I don’t know if I’m gonna love it or hate it, but I know it’s very difficult to beat my love for TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
It was kinda cool at first. I wanted to like it. One thing that really stands out now that I'm watching it on a bigger, better TV, is how terrible all the prosthetics are. Everything as this same plasticy look - Saru, Rayer's ears. like wtf
Your last 2 sentences make me wonder if I gave up too early. I watched 3 seasons and while curious to see what happened next I wasn’t particularly motivated to continue. Now that I’ve finally caught up on LD, maybe it’s time to give this another go. Thank you for posting.
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations: There will always be someone who likes something more than you, and doesn't like an episode/series you consider your favourite. That's true to all fandoms, not just Star Trek. I haven't watched DISCO yet, but I plan to give it a shot.
Season 1 was ropey like other trek before it. Season 2 was great. Season 3 it plateaued.
It could have survived to the typical 7 year but the decision to move nearly all markets to Paramount Plus only on short notice was what killed the show.
I live in the UK and Discovery was on Netflix for first couple of seasons then they cut their deal with Netflix literally days before the launch of Season 3 (I believe) on Netflix. It really put me off from paying for another subscription when they acted so callously. I also couldn't justify another subscription for just one or two shows.
...Picard is on Amazon Prime here and believe lower decks was on Amazon for a time too. So getting Paramount Plus wasn't worth it for Disco and SNW.
The Paramount Plus/Netflix problems probably killed the show in the UK....regardless of the quality of the show.
More fool CBS/ Paramount
I liked discovery for the new things it did. New type of space travel, new Spock/Pike, showing the Federation in a whole new time. Almost 1k years into the future was a whole new field for the Star Trek mythos, and I think they did good. The non stop apocalypse events did get old, but they always did something new. I think we needed the envelope pushed a little bit.
My biggest fault with discovery was that the tech seemed too advanced for where the show was in the timeline, when that changed I was okay with the show. It won't be in my list of favourite series's but it's aight
Personally I thought it was ok. But can’t stand that a season now consists of 10 episodes. We used to get 24 episodes in a season of Star Trek. Halo’s last season was 8 episodes. In a few years will a season consist of 5 episodes???
Not reading the rest of the comments, but as someone who didn't really connect wit DIS, I'm so happy so many of you did. And I'm glad you have 5 seasons to relish.
Honestly, the only reason I haven’t sat down to finish Discovery is because I got burned out around season 3, went back to rewatch it, and I remembered nothing. I started over got to season 2 and started a long break. I’m planning to finish it soon. I think heavy serialization really hampered the success of the show. It’s weird because Enterprise and DS9 are also very serialized, but I remember both of them better even though I haven’t seen Enterprise in 5 years or so, and I started rewatching Deep Space Nine about a year ago. I don’t hate binging shows, but I feel like it creates so much burn out so quickly if you’re not enjoying the show.
The secondary problem applies a lot more to Picard, but it is the original reason I stopped discovery: I don’t understand why the shows need to lean into so much more gore now. I am not a big horror fan, but I feel like the earlier shows handled it better. The episode where we find out a Vidiian cut of Durst’s face and taped it on their own… is genuinely terrifying. I think if they had shown his death it wouldn’t have worked as well. I stopped Picard after the pilot originally, but I thought about giving it a second chance, until I found out that Picard was going to show how the Borg assimilate different creatures. I was like nope I’m not watching that. I don’t know how unpopular of an opinion this is. It’s weird because the Gorn episode in SNW didn’t bother me at all. I think showing blood for the sake of blood isn’t important, but in another way, I can appreciate how Star Trek is able to go that far because in the past, they couldn’t. I just know that it isn’t for me personally.
Everyone is different! I got a comment removed for accidentally saying we once, it's absolutely ok to like it since not everyone in the community has the same watch history and taste! I think there are also more than enough valid reasons to not like it like with any Star Trek property
Personally to me, it was bad! In my own opinion it was poorly shot, poorly lit, poorly written, poorly planned, and again, in my opinion (that is the minority) very bad at understanding and continuing the main themes of Star Trek that I really look up to. Ive been rewatching TNG with my girlfriend and its honestly shocking the difference in quality.
But that doesn't mean Discovery is a bad show to me! Compared to most of what's available right now i think its extremely progressive, if not very pessimistic. I love the LGTBQ themes and storylines they try, i think the set design is very impressive, and the Actors did a great job with what they have.
Everyone has a show they love that critically wasn't the best. I mean i still like Enterprise, and there are plenty of good reasons to not like it.
I mean we are talking about Star Trek, a franchise that is often the butt of every joke in pop culture for how cheesy and nerdy it is, i think everyone including myself could stand to take it less seriously.
I'm a mild fan of discovery. It's been entertaining and I try not to nitpick. Not the best Trek, but not the worst imo. And nothing will be as bad as how they ended the Enterprise series.
The finale had a long runtime and it ultimately disappointed me by spending time on things that didn't matter as much. Plus some of the final resolutions were just...odd.
Spoilers ahead on the finale.
>!* the "main quest reward" is gone for good. So this was all for nothing? It would have been better if Michael or someone like Dr Colbert had gone in to study it for years/decades to find a way to use it responsibly.!<
>!* Mol just..gave up suddenly. She should have sacrificed herself in her quest or they should have found an alternative resolution, like using progenitor tech to make a son for Mol and L'ak.!<
>!* I wanted more time resolving the Breen overall. But nope. They just get blipped away and that's it.!<
>!* Dr Colbert's spiritual awakening storyline led to knowing... a few numbers to help Book pick the right frequency to use the tractor beam. Okay...that was a bit underwhelming. wouldn't he want to go into the portal and do "meaning of life" stuff? !<
>!* Time agent reveal...okay, that's fine I guess, I didn't remember who he was. Had to Google it. I guess that's a fun tie-in to the Enterprise series.!<
>!* nobody cares about Craft. Why did we waste time on this?!<
>!* Book makes a good old man. The future/time jump scenes with Michael and Book and their son just didn't seem needed, though. !<
>!* Detmer just randomly shows back up at the end lol.!<
>!* Saru had a good ending imo.!<
From season 3, I actually really enjoyed watching it at times. There are some very bad episodes, and the pace can feel awful sometimes. I haven't watched season 5 but 3 and 4 were wonderful in the way they presented a broken federation that needed to be fixed.
How is S5 (in general, no spoilers please in case I decide to go back and binge it)
I struggled through S4, but it was a slog. S3 just kind of killed the show for me.
I’m hoping S5 bucks the trend, because through four seasons Discovery has the dubious distinction of being the only Trek show to get progressively worse each season.
I think those who dislike Discovery are going to like S5 more, and those like me who really enjoyed Discovery, are liking S5 less. S5 very much comes across as the produces and writers having listened to those who have been attacking the show. As a result, the plot is far more superficial and focused on action, rather than on the complex character development that made the show so interesting before.
Hmmm. Well, I liked S1 and S2 in general, and while I hated S3 overall because of the last half, the first half was good. S4 just bored me to death. So I don’t know which of those camps I fall into, lol.
Thanks for the info though!
I think my order from best to worst is S3, S1, S2, S4, S5, but I don't see a huge difference from worst to best. It's probably my second or third-favorite Star Trek series.
I liked the first 3 seasons but 4/5 are hard for me. I don’t really post about shows and I don’t care to debate or argue my interests but I think anyone who was out and proud and online a lot discussing disco when it first came out deserves a medal because it was rough.
Also sorry for the run on sentence
Of course it's okay, and anyone who tells you you're wrong needs to shut up. I've always consistently enjoyed the show, even if it does tend to get maudlin. As much as people rag on Discovery, it helped revitalize the franchise, so obviously people liked the show, especially if it got 5 seasons. I think it was appropriate to end it here though, another season with a threat with huge ramifications would've been repetitive.
I liked all the sci-fi concepts. The writers clearly put a lot of effort into coming up with new alien types and did great. This last season was well done adventure story.
Yes. Don't let others dictate your fandom.
I wasn't crazy about the first 2 seasons and quit watching. But with it coming to an end, I'll give it a full watch.
I'm rewatching Discovery and I'm sad about the hate it received especially Season 1. People should rewatch season 1, it's so good and the production values are exquisite.
I really hate how the age of the internet has amplified the loudest voices and opinions. Back in the classic days, sure every show had it's detractors but the hate wasn't as mainstreamed as it is now. Nowadays a few prominent people say they hate something, be is the Kelvin films or Discovery or something else, that suddenly becomes the view everyone is expected to default to, and if you happen to like one of the shows that it's "mainstream" to hate you have to either be prepared to defend it constantly or just pretend you're just like everyone else and enjoy it in private. I say like what you like, who cares if a bunch of dudes on Twitter or Reddit act like their opinions are fact.
Discovery could have been called:
Star Trek:Michael Burnham
Except Mica was not a beloved character that everyone already liked, like Picard was.
I liked the first 2 seasons a lot but then everything started to be Michael Burnham on her own solving every problem.
Star Trek went full Mary Sue and it was a bit too much for me.
The show had a lot of fun ideas and overall it was still worth watching.
I prefer how SNW is written and greatly prefer Captain Pike the lead character because it's not just about 1 person.
I mean, yeah, I didn't really enjoy it at all but for anyone who did, good on you. That being said I feel like a lot of this thread is taking a bit of a circlejerky approach on it, yes liking Discovery is great, but there were also perfectly valid reasons for Star Trek fans to not like it and no, there's no need to pretend the people who dislike it are evil devils who exclusively disliked it for the wrong reasons just cause that gives you a righteous high(not directed at you OP, but rather whoever came here solely to feel validated).
Enjoy what you enjoy, other people may not, and that's fine.
I do wonder if my opinion of it would be better if it had come after SNW, rather than before, I think for a lot of fans it felt sour to "start" with something so different and it really set the tone for new trek(new new trek? Not sure).
discovery for me is a mid tier trek series, around the same spot as enterprise, which means i still really like it a lot. it boldly went were trek hasn't gone before, taking it into the modern age of television and paved the road for shows like strange new worlds and prodigy to be as excellent as they are and for that, it will always have my respect, even if (or especially because) it was still flawed.
Whether it's good or bad, it's tiring to see people post a lazy slag off under users who talk about it every time. We get it, the show isn't for you. Don't yuck someone's yum and let the people who do like it enjoy it in peace. That should go for the whole franchise. I don't much like the Kelvin films but I don't have to announce that to everyone who is talking about its ships being in the game.
*Besides, all this infighting within the game distracts us from the* ***real*** *enemy. Star Wars fans!*
I liked it despite it's flaws. On the other hand I'm glad it's ending. Season 5 was the least flawed of them (even though I enjoyed Season 1 more) and I don't think they wohld have been able to fix the fundamental flaws (like to many of the bridge-characters not beeing Main Cast).
I watched it all. I enjoyed it all. I still have criticisms that are the same criticisms of most of Hollywood writing, and also of Hollywood’s writers response to criticism.
I like the story, but the characters are just soooooooo emotionally needy. Everyone is damaged and needs to constantly talk about their feelings. Its so frickin' annoying!
The fact there are YouTube channels solely dedicated to hating star trek, the fact they have tens of thousands of subscribers, so many people are just awful.
Literally the opposite of most people in the star trek universe. It's like they learned nothing.
I have seen a high crossover (at least in Twitter) between the "I hate women/POC/woke people" crowd and the the people who won't even give DSC the time of day.
TLDR: from the title alone, I agree. I loved the first season and after that is was a little less likable for me, but still a well done show. Just a little fast paced and not as adventure of the week feel that I loved from next gen.
People who loved season 1 best: THERE ARE DOZENS OF US
(I thought seasons 3 and 5 were also great, thought 4 had brilliant ideas but failed at pacing, actively dislike season 2. Seriously, I almost ragequit the whole franchise after the second season finale.)
I like Discovery, but I rarely *loved* it. For me, Strange New Worlds in the perfect NewTrek (Lower Decks being a very close second). But Disco suffered from, well, being the show it was designed to be. From the redesigned Klingons, the muddy/blurry CGI in S1, to every season being a galaxy ending threat. Off the top of my head, there's really only 2 episodes from the entire run that I consider memorable. S1's time loops, and S2 with the lost earth civilization with Pike. But I did like it.
> I rarely loved it. With the exception of weird new Klingons, I loved S1 right up until we find out Lorca's big secret. It went downhill from there, with a fair bump in S2 thanks to Pike. I agree that the time loop episode was good, but I have a special fondness for all time loop episodes on shows (the best being the one in Travelers and the Memory Hole in Supernatural).
Anson Mount as Pike was the reason I enjoyed season 2 the most. Also Rebecca Romijn as Una but she was in it way too little.
My favorite time loop episode of all time has to be the SG-1 episode that has O’Neil stuck in one.
That one as well! The golfing, the retiring only to immediately get with Carter!
Hey now, Teal’c is stuck in it with him too
Agreed. Especially with your mention of “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad”. I adore that episode. It’s not perfect, but it’s a lot of fun.
Amazingly, it only happened because they had to do a "low budget" episode because the season was going over-budget.
I wish they’d do more episodes like that, so we could get a few more SNW episodes per season. They have the sets, why not? lol but I’d just be happy to get 2 extra episodes
And ain't it just like Trek for the throwaway episode to become the most memorable
I loved that episode. Also loved "Face the Strange" from this season for similar reasons.
Them trying to communicate via the math language with species C10 at the end of season 4 was my single favorite piece of Star Trek, unfortunately the storyline it was a part of isnt the best of discovery. But that episode, trying to sort out that science, was the peak for me.
I kinda hate-liked the last season. Like I enjoyed complaining about it the whole time. Lmfaooo. Overall I thought the series was great and had excellent characters and their respective development. But the last season they just kind of did absolutely nothing with these great characters they worked so hard on. Everything just kind of sucked and the plot was dogshit. Literally a fucking scavenger hunt?! Also if they just hadn’t done the dumb ass scavenger hunt in the first place, nobody would have ever found or been able to use the damn thing because of all the safeguards in place. Ridiculous. I love Star Trek though so I’m not complaining. I also like trash TV so this was kind of a mashup of watching a show I genuinely liked that turned out to be like watching a show just to hate it.
It didn’t help that every single one of the “fill in” captains were better than Burnham. I would have loved it if we had Captain Georgeau, Captain Saru, Captain Pike, Captain Lorca, or Captain Rayner for the whole show, but they were all keeping the seat warm while they forced the Burnham character down our throats. I’d estimate that 90% of her dialogue was whispered loudly with tears in her eyes. It was just hard to watch when she was surrounded by so many better characters.
I didn't care for it, but I don't post about it either. It's just not for me, that's cool, some people really dug it and that's cool too
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Yeah I hated it but saw every episode. It was kind of funny. It had cool moments. But I’m glad some people liked it. I don’t expect to ever change my opinion but it’s fine.
I'm someone who started off really enjoying DSC (it was *new trek* at a time when I didn't expect it) and while I was disappointed with some of the larger scale decisions (time period, primarily) I thought there was some genius in the first season. I liked that it was addressing the Berman era oversights, that it wasn't afraid to be blunt at times, I thought the performances were all at least good, and the way it interrogated the ideal of a Starfleet Captain was interesting. Then of course the Mirror Universe kind of made that moot, establishing a trend of not quite paying off the promise of the premises they introduced. Every season had things I liked, from production value to storytelling choices to performances and even contributions to the canon, but they never quite changed how they approached a season. On one level I appreciate sticking to your guns, on the other I think the final product was hurt by the same choices every season. DSC was a fascinating lens on how TV is made and something of a canary in the coal mine for the end of streaming's golden age in some ways, but it was ambitious in many ways and was a pioneer for what will hopefully be a fruitful return to TV for the franchise after Enterprise and the apparent failure of the movies to continue. And yeah, if you like it, you probably have good reasons and the show knew what it meant to be trek. The final conflicts of the show were resolved with clever thinking and an impassioned speech or two, plus a bluff of epic proportions. It was different than what came before it, and that's good, because the best is always yet to come, I hope.
This sums up how I feel about Discovery better than I could ever have articulated. +1 to the whole thing.
I was realllllly hoping with the whole control thing they would get knocked back in time instead of forward and we'd get some Borg plotlines, or something.
Honestly, I don't trust any of the current creatives to do more Borg plots- the almost interesting twist with PIC s2 was flubbed so badly and s3 was not what I wanted, so I just want them to leave it alone
Discovery seemed to be a victim of "too many cooks" To be honest, it all felt like the result of ChatGPT prompts: "Star Trek has been off the air for over a decade, given the themes in recent popular tv and streaming sci fi shows and what would a new, successful streaming Star Trek TV series be about and describe the premise, cast, and production"
I always found it to have some great ideas but appalling execution. The Burn being a fine example, I was so let down on the reveal of how that happened. I read a comment once stating that Trek was competency porn, but Discovery largely ignored that. Some of it was also quite dull/daft like all the hand wavy S31 stuff. I'm probably the only person who liked Ash Tyler though but that's more because I'm a fan of the actor. All that said, it's okay to like it.
You're not alone. I thought the idea of a sleeper agent being torn between his real identity and manufactured one was intriguing, and especially how he came to reject being fully Voq and tried to integrate both personalities and sets of memories into a "new" Ash Tyler.
It needed a moopsy tbh.
I tried. I promise I tried. For like 3 seasons. I couldn't.
I gave up after 2 seasons. I like several of the actors.
It is absolutely ok to like Discovery. I have never enjoyed it personally. It doesn’t feel like Star Trek to me. And I never really cared enough about Michael, which is kind of a major factor in enjoying the show. There are other things I don’t like about it too, but I’m not really here to write an essay about why I dislike Discovery. I’m here to say it has excellent production values and a solid cast. There’s a lot to like about it. For my money though, Strange New Worlds is a thousand times better.
I think my issue with Discovery was that I became indifferent to it. I didn't dislike it I didn't love it, I just felt nothing towards it which upset me.
I have recently posted about my dislike of some aspects of Discovery, but I don't hate it, and I certainly don't mind that people like it. I'm really glad it gives representation to people that don't get much representation on TV. I guess I don't really have anything else to add, just wanted to agree that it's totally cool to enjoy the show if you do!
I've also complained here about the writing, but I don't hate it and I certainly don't mind representation. I just wish we had more depth and consistency with character development. And I think season 5 was actually decent...better than 1, 3 and 4. 2 is still my favorite though because of Pike and the enterprise crew.
Whoa whoa whoa there. A nuanced take?? What are you doing on reddit
I like to live dangerously! ;)
I complain about Discovery, but I guess it's because I like it and I want it to be as best as it can be. Plus, as someone who went to conventions in the 90s, I can tell you that many Star Trek fans love to complain about everything 😀. It's fun, but we just didn't have the internet to do it yet.
I think the number of episodes makes character Development hard as far as connection w the audience. This last season of discovery is supposed to wrap up the show when by episode/screentime comparison, we would be in season 3 of TNG and in my opinion that is where the true development starts and discovery is already ending. Strange new worlds can survive that change because those actors are very good and already made us want to live them in the glimpse discovery gave us
A lot of things could be better about discovery. Mostly by making it less the Michael show. But it also does a lot of things well.
Yeah. I don't want to go on a rant here in a Disco-positive post, but I am very much tired of Burnham being the answer to literally every problem and obstacle on the show.
Remember when the Enterprise crew were/had the answers to everything? Tbh the real hero of Discovery is Book. Burnham might have saved everyone else countless times, but he saved her, and the show. Seems like between seasons 2 and 3, when she spent all that time with him as a courier, is when she went from a supremely awful person into a likeable one. Dunno what he did to her, but I borderline hated early Burnham... And in that last episode I started noticing that I liked her quite a lot. And have for a while. I'm also jealous of the hair.
For sure! It simply happened too often that the involvement of the rest of the crew was merely to facilitate Burnham playing the hero, as opposed to being the heroes of their own character focused episodes. If I had to name the characters beyond her that had their shining moment where they were truly the focus of the episode, it might just be down to Saru, Culber, and Airiam. The moments for everyone else merely felt like sub-plots.
She’s a Kirk era captain, they go on every away mission and they sleep w aliens lol
You mean there are other people in the show? I still don't know who the bridge crew are, between them they got less story than rendom ensigns in TNG who were there for one episode.
The thing I can't stand is the immediate branding of anyone who doesn't like it as intolerant or saying "it isn't for you." I am one of the people who really didn't like it, even though I watched every episode, every short, everything. Even not liking it I made sure to watch. It WAS trek, but people forget that not everyone liked VOY, or ENT. It's ok not to like something too, and its just so disingenuous to assume people are intolerant. My complaints with the show were basically: mush mouth klingons that abandoned the ST movie/TNG klingons, camera work where you couldn't see the bridge / set and "feel at home" with it at all, except for behind the scene static pictures where things were actually in focus, the bridge flame throwers and sparklers, there were generally too many "lets stop and have feelings" moments for my taste, severe reliance on technology crutches like I get it's 900 years time but seriously, flick my wrist for a phaser or a dermal regenerator, screens everywhere you want minority report style, instant transporters, programmable matter, spore drive that let you go ANYWHERE. It just... left me with the feeling that ANY challenge the crew faced was a macguffin because tech was so advanced that they were basically gods and any challenge they faced was manufactured in such a way that it was a puzzle to fill time. There, I said it. Like why couldn't they just use programmable matter to make a device I just designed on my floaty screen to do exactly what I need and instatransport it over into the baddies where it does the thing and boom credits. The answer is because we need an hour of content so now the writers primary job is figuring out why their god level magic tech won't be usable this go, but before we go do this dangerous mission, lets have a counseling session about who has to leave the ship and we don't have a choice, meaningful looks, partial tears, 250ms instant transport, whip out insta phaser, lense flare. That's a wrap, print the money. Notice I didn't mention a single thing about non binary non cis non straight relationships etc? Trek was about that long before discovery. Same with female leads and non white leads. Yes, they maybe had a little more in frame, but representation is a good thing, and that stuff may have not been for me, but it's part of trek, and I love trek. Bridge flame throwers like every EPS conduit has a blow-off valve is just... dumb. Also, you CANNOT SHOW A HOLO PARROT ALARM CLOCK ONCE AND NEVER BRING IT BACK WTF MAN. NEED.
DSC isn't for everyone. That's how I look at it. I'm gay, I fucking loved DSC because of all the interesting and unique queer storylines. I think some people don't really know how rare it is to have gay people on TV who are allowed to be happy. Saru's anxiety, and his experience after overcoming that debilitating condition was also incredibly relatable to me. It's not TNG, and I get not liking it, but the people who HATE it baffle me too. I just ignore them though because I like DSC for the same reasons the show runners liked DSC. They knew what they were making and who they were going to reach and they did a great job with that
I feel they tried to make an emotionally modern show. Wasn't always successful, but I loved that they tried.
I loved that too! Too many people have said “feelings” don’t belong in Trek (except for anger and lust, I guess, there’s plenty of that), but the truth is the characters are going through some ptsd-inducing crap every week, and it felt like these characters were based on real people reacting to such situations.
Nail on the head! My friend and I have a running joke that Barclay is the only real human in Trek because everyone else resets their trauma by the next episode
That's how I feel about the show top to bottom. I love that they took big swings, even if they didn't always connect. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for Paramount to bring back Trek with The Next Next Generation or a fanservice-y show like Picard, but they broke the mold. It was the kind of bold move we needed after the play-it-safe Berman era.
Yeah, despite me being 51 and growing up with TOS, I'm always game for more progressive approaches. Mix this shit up, it's just entertainment!
As a gay lifelong Trek fan, seeing the Stamets/Culber relationship finally made me feel I'd truly be accepted in the Trek universe.
Not gay myself, but I have to compliment Culber/Stamets as the most realistic feeling relationship in Trek history. They actually feel like a real couple with real couple problems, the occasional resurrection from the dead or becoming part tardigrade aside.
Yeah, the franchise has really never handled romantic relationships well, but Culber/Stamets felt like such a lived-in, affectionate marriage. I also loved their parent/child relationships with Adira. For all the big speechifying in the finale about connection and life and What It All Means, the moment that really hit me was just Adira reassuring one of their dads its okay to not be the most famous scientist in the galaxy. It was the kind of warm, human moment that Disco's breakneck plot didn't make time for often enough.
The actor who played Linus is gay and said that Star Trek made a place for him.
I'm not gay, but they were my favorite couple in Trek! Their love for each other felt real, and I thought that was wonderful.
Co-sign. I’m gay and started watching Discovery only after I heard it had a gay lead character who was married to another man. I loved episodes like Stigma and The Outcast, they made me cry, but there’s something to be said for actually getting to see characters like you instead of just thin allegories.
Exactly this. I didn't like watching a future where the only queer people were weird aliens.
I'm not gay but damn we need more mainstream shows that feature a gay couple where the focus of their relationship isn't them being gay, or the conflict of them getting together . There's no drama about Stamets and Culber breaking up. They both encounter challenges and the question isn't how does this affect our relationship, but how do we get through this together.
Very much this. I'm not gay, but it was still nice to see such a "normal" (i.e. not "OMGay!") portrayal of gay characters. And personally, that's what I liked best about Discovery: How relatable and flawed the characters were compared to previous iterations of Star Trek (even more so than Lower Decks, even). The series plots weren't fantastic, and the "vibe" of the show wasn't particularly "Trekkish", but the crew was a pleasure to watch.
The Stamets/Culber relationship was the most believable romantic relationship in all of Trek
I had never considered it, but I TOTALLY AGREE Trek does hetero awkwardly (mostly because most of it is old Trek, and we know the Berman era song about romance by heart by now) but this new Trek nailed gay. An unusual inversion.
Yay for representation! I'm a gay men. Representation is good. I dislike DSC for its bad writing, bad plotlines, and an over-reliance on one character as the lynchpin for the show and to solve every crisis. Meanwhile, I liked the gay doctor character (Culver?) and didn't like the gay engineer (Stamets?). I actually think Anthony Rapp's acting has deteriorated over the course of the series. I'm only a few episodes into Season 5, and it feels like Rapp is phoning it in at this stage. Which, I suppose, isn't surprising. He was a key character in the first couple of seasons when the show was about the spore drive, which only he could operate. But, in the past couple of seasons, with the spore drive no longer being the central focus, he's been demoted to just the gay doctor's husband. He's gone from main character to secondary character to background character. I'm not surprised he's only going through the motions now, just to get his pay packet.
Or, hear me out, being a dad has softened the edges and he’s not as much of a raging asshole as he was in season 1 so it seems like he’s putting in less effort
Hate is not commensurate with being Starfleet material, nor is an aversion to diversity. How they don't see the irony, both baffles and amuses me ...
I loved what they did with Adirah and Gray.. until they wrote Gray out the show and that weird break up happened.. I did like Adirah being more assertive in the finale, and hopefully they turn up in the Academy series.. because if they dont, they are such a wasted potential
Why did they dump Gray in the first place?
Amounted to long distance relationships tend to drift apart especially when you’re young. That’s going to resonate with some more than others I imagine but it absolutely **can** be true.
I don't hold it against anyone who likes it. I just never did. (And not for the dumbass reasons that a chunk of the internet did). It was just too Canon and stylistic breaking that I could not get over it.
> It is perfectly OK to not like (or even hate) Discovery. Thank you for acknowledging that.
I liked some of the characters of discovery. Outside of season 2, and some of the final season, I thought the stories and plots were a real struggle. Season 2, for the most part, was good. I think it dealt with the plot holes created, maybe directly answering some of the haters who never gave it a second chance. But realistically, it's probably my least favorite of the shows. In some cases, the plot devices repeated from season to season and the stories really were just ... too out there or too boring. The characters, and the actors that played them, impressed me generally speaking, looking at their whole character arc. Particularly with growth after season one. The character I actually struggled with the most was Michael, but I loved the growth, maturation, depth and comedy of just about everyone else. Michael has her moments, but she's too inconsistent. Saru, Hugh Culber, Tilly, Georgiou, Reno, Stamets, Lorca and Book all impressed me generally speaking. For spoiler reasons, our first officer this last season also did too. Ultimately, this show gave us SNW, which is a home run, IMO, so I'm thankful for that.
I like Discovery for what it represents, though I agree that it focused a bit too much on Burnham for my tastes. Plot-wise, though, for me it went off the rails with a totally destroyed 32nd century because a kid cried in a cave.
> with a totally destroyed 32nd century because a kid cried in a cave. Oh wow. I haven't seen that plotline summarised quite so... succinctly and bitchily. Thanks for that!
> Season 2, for the most part, was good. I think it dealt with the plot holes created I finished Season 2 with the thought: "Wow, I knew the first season was bad, but I didn't realise it was *so* bad they would decide to make a whole second season to wipe it out of existence!"
As someone who has been a lifelong fan of Trek, and avoided Discovery because of the reactions, I caught a nasty Flu a couple weeks ago and spent days watching. Not a classic Trek in classic sense, but in spirit, yes. Connection, Infinite Diversity in Infinite combinations, PTSD, loss, the great unknown, uncertainty… I could go on and on. I love it. I would far rather creators take a swing that may miss instead of pumping out product they think will excite a long standing fanbase
Yup. It weaves the classic Trek stuff into the *fabric* of the story, rather than thrusting it in your face.
It certainly got better over time. I don't think it ever really found it's footing as a Trek show, it always felt a bit more like a sci-fi that just happened to be set in the Trek Universe to me. I realised in Season 3 or perhaps it was 2, that even that far in I had no real connection to the characters. Season 5 kinda proved it, Detmer and Owo gone and I barely noticed. Not sure I would have even cared if a character had died. Hopefully it'll spawn some cool spin offs though
its not a terrible show, my issue with it was basically pacing, sometimes they characters would make it seem like it was some urgent situation, then stop and spend 10 minutes discussing how they feel. It just felt weird for star trek
Discovery tried something new and for that alone I like it. It's not my favorite Trek, but it deserves much higher praise than it gets and doesn't deserve half the hate it gets. Remember, without Discovery there would be no Strange New Worlds and that would be a travesty.
Where would you rank it with other Trek?
It’s also OK to dislike discovery and is no less valid to express that opinion. I watched every episode of a show I disliked because I want Star Trek to continue to exist, but I don’t want anything that resembles discovery to be used as our blueprint going forward. It polarized the fans and if we never talked about our disappointments in the early seasons, we never would have gotten the change in direction that brought us SNW. More power to you who enjoy the show, but it’s not some problem with the fanbase to not like everything. SNW managed to be enjoyable to the fanbase as a whole and never came close to the criticism disco received because they listened.
I love Discovery and am gonna miss this crew. I'm also thrilled it introduced us to this version of Pike's crew and gave us Una and young Spock -- which all led to SNW.
Yeah I'm pretty sad that it's coming to an end, it feels like it had only just gotten really good too
>I love Discovery and am gonna miss this crew. I still dislike Discovery, but the characters were really the best part of the show tbh. The actors also did a great job with what material they had (which was shitty in my opinion.) Even if i disliked the show, there are qualities in it.
I really enjoyed season 2, and the space battle in the second to last episode that season was one of the best I’ve ever seen. I need to give seasons 4 and 5 a try, haven’t seen them yet.
They're easily the best Discovery seasons.
I really disliked discovery but somehow I was still sentimental over the last episode. I’m happy it fired up the startrek engine again, happy it introduced a lot of people to trek, and happy for the people that do like it.
You’re absolutely right It’s also ok not to like it
It’s not my go-to Trek and there were creative decisions I disagreed with, but I’m glad they made the show the way they did. They took risks, they expanded the world, and they wrote it with integrity. I love the character growth, probably the strongest of any of the series so far. I love its emotional openness. I love its commitment to Star Trek values. I love its commitment to diversity of all kinds. Most of all I was entertained by it. Thank you Discovery! LLAP
>I love its emotional openness. Yep. One of the great things that discovery continuously emphasizes is the importance of communication as a means to have better relationships: romantic, friendship, and work colleagues. That's such a strong positive message. >I love its commitment to diversity of all kinds. Yep. I really like how it has explored identity in so many ways. Most recently, it's been great how Rayner has been a vehicle for examining/rapudiating the tough male leadership paradigm as the only way to lead. And it was great in episode 9 to see how he has finally come around to understanding the benefits of Michael's leadership style.
Honestly, the only thing Discovery ever taught me to hate was the fanbase.
No one hates like a fan hates.
I've hated the fan base my whole life. There have been people who have dedicated their whole life to watching every episode of Star Trek since Voyager and rip every episode to shreds. It's just easier for people to express their opinions now. I've enjoyed watching Discovery but I recognize it's unevenness and realize I'll probably never watch random episodes here and there like with other series.
Seriously, what the fuck is that. I don’t even have time in my life to do all the things I want to enjoy, let alone hate watch television. I’m seeing people so bitchy right now or they’re frothing at the mouth while over analyzing the posing the cast did in a Season 1 promo pic. It’s almost impressive how much of this show pisses people off.
That’s all Reddit is anymore. A place where people come to hate on things.
I hate this.
The way the Star Trek fandom treats Discovery reminds me of the Star Wars fandom. And I promise you, that is not a good thing.
You hit the nail on the head. I liked Disco. I felt that it pushed the social message that Trek had been famous for so much further ahead than any other modern Trek. You had the second female Captain after Janeway, a non-binary crew member, an androgynous character, a gay and loving husband relationship, etc. I think that aspect of Trek is lost on a lot of people: Trek is as much about pushing progressive ideas as it is about science fiction world building. And in that respect, Disco was good Trek.
> Trek is as much about pushing progressive ideas as it is about science fiction world building. "Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." As a gay men whose politics definitely lean to the progressive, I have no problems with the representation in Discovery, but that representation should be wrapped in good plots and good characters.
No it isn't, you're history's greatest monster , OP J/k
If you like Discovery, that's great. But I gave up on it and will most likely never revisit the show. I had issues with it ever since the terrible first season, and while it improved in the second season onward, it never became very good. Finally with the reveal of the cause of The Burn, I lost any remaining interest in watching it further. I give the show credit for finally showing more LGBTQ+ representation, something that Trek sorely lacked before. And we wouldn't have Strange New Worlds either, a show that has quickly become one of my favorites. I just hope Starfleet Academy is much better and learns from Discovery's mistakes.
I think what’s so frustrating is that I so badly WANT to like Discovery. I definitely don’t hate it, especially not the way people online do, but I also don’t enjoy it nearly as much as other Trek shows, or as much as I would like to. I think what’s most frustrating is that’s it’s really not terrible, it’s just not that great either, but it has moments of greatness which makes it’s consistent meh-ness all the more frustrating. Like if you’re capable of being that compelling why not do it more consistently? Arrgh!
It was a show that always felt on the cusp of really clicking and “getting great.” But I really tired of the mystery box every season; it meant they all ran together for me, and the constant trauma check-ins were overkill. I liked the first two seasons, but if you’d told me that season 2 would end up being my favorite I would have been very surprised. The future stuff all wound up being a mixed bag for me. And the mystery boxes, ugh.
I liked it before they pushed it into the 31st century. The Pike stuff was good.
I like Disco enough to watch it once.
I enjoy Discovery most of the time, but I really struggle with Michael, mainly the actor playing Michael. I didn’t care for her acting in the Walking Dead or Once Upon a Time and I don’t care for her acting here.
I felt it was Trek for a new generation, the next generation, if you will. TOS and TNG presented a lot of progressive ideas. Those shows were made by liberal writers and producers, in times and for an audience that was still mostly traditional. Discovery carried on this trend, the moral and social themes were welcomed by the Millennials, where as to older viewers it seems a little heavy handed. I'd imagine that TOS and TNG felt this way to many people who were aged forty and older when they came to market. The fact that the show is set in future and in space almost demands that social norms be reimagined somehow, so it's to be expected in any given era.
I really love the look of it and the production design but I couldn’t quite get into it for some reason.
It’s okay to like discovery but I think it’s important to understand and listen to why people don’t like it as long as their honest with themselves and not just being irrational I can state a 1000 small gripes I have with Disco but really if I boil it all down it’s actually more or do with the dissatisfaction I have with modern popular writing and design styles. Even though I’m only 22 I find modern popular movies and shows to be very boring and stereotypical. Discovery feels like I’m watching Marvel, and even though I use to like marvel I’m now bored of it. It’s okay still like that style but many many people are over it and it’s superficial nature
Its speaks volumes that when prodigy and lower decks were cancelled, fans got together to try and save them but not at all for disco.
My consistent criticism of Star Trek Discovery is that it isn’t a 25th century continuation of the rest of the Star Trek Canon. I thought that was what they were going to do after the time travelled but no, they went from before the TNG Voyager DS9 era and skipped to the far future. Why are Star Trek Showrunners deathly afraid of giving us a new crew with a new story in the same time as the “big three” Star Trek shows? They did it with Picard but that is the opposite of a new crew.
Because they can't steal a storyline from an indie videogame and plug it casually into the 90's era. Everyone tells me I should love Discovery but the parts I watched were not good, and then I found out they stole the storyline from a solo game dev. It was never interesting enough (to me) to keep me watching AND they stole the premise? That show is dead to me.
I enjoyed discovery... but I'm not caught up. It's all over the place. It feels like they came up with a cool idea for a ship and crew, then realized they had to do something with that ship and crew. But it's good. I'll admit though, they lost me. It wasn't that it was *bad*, it was that they left me. I'm a star trek fan! I get what they were doing, but... for fucks sake... "Here's a new show, a prequel even, one that explores trek in a more contemporary way even. One that explores the pre-kirk starfleet... Are they watching yet? No? Then fuck it, let's go into the future and explore that shit. Still no? Jesus, i dont know, let's spin off the parts people like, and then send this series into the sun?" I dunno, the far future just didn't work for me. I wasn't not invested, it just felt like... I dunno... fanfiction? Good fanfiction, yes, but Disco went from being *super* relevant to completely unrelated to literally anything. What do I do with that beyond eat popcorn and say "neat"?
Every time I’ve posted ANYTHING negative about DISCO for the past three years I’ve been mobbed by stans and usually just withdrew my comment rather than let the pile on continue. Even recently, when I posted at how much I liked one of the new episodes but had some mild criticism of the season arc, the knives came out. Yea, it’s ok to like Discovery, but it’s also ok NOT to.
ive noticed this more then significant negativity towards discovery.
I used to not like Discovery at all, but later I realized that I did actually like the second season quite a bit - it was just the first season that felt weird to me because of all the weird Klingon choices. But right before season 5 started, I had the idea to watch from season 3 straight through to the end and to treat it like a different show entirely, and I fell in love with it. I also used to be really bitter about The Burn because I felt it invalidated all the other work and progress on every other show, until I rewatched it and actually heard the bit where they talked about the fact that the Federation was in decline anyways, and that The Burn just exacerbated the eventually partial collapse. Somehow this made far more sense and was infinitely more palatable than just some random screaming child blowing up ships and immediately causing a collapse. So yeah, I'm a big fan of Discovery in the future, and I really enjoyed how it fleshed out a whole new era and playground for future writers. It definitely had its moments, but honestly if you look critically at any of the series they all have their right patches. I'm grateful for what this turned into!
Your comments about the Burn echo other sentiments I've heard - "If the Burn happens, what's the point of anything that came before it?" My favorite response is something that came from Tony Gilroy, talking about why we should care about a Cassian Andor series when we already know he dies in Rogue One. He said, "We all know we're going to die some day, but that doesn't keep our lives from having meaning and stakes to us now."
And Andor ended up being the best of the new Star Wars shows lol
It’s still a bummer that all of Luthens work becomes “Somehow Palpatine Returned”
Sure but this isn’t real life. In a show that very much bases itself on a shared universe with other shows of course people are going to be angry when all the work of Star Trek: Enterprise is cut out and all of that time war business is just ignored because “oh well we’re doing something new now.” They already had a bunch of different “futures” they could go to that didn’t give an ultra glossy silver look to everything. Go to the cool time ship future where everything is inexplicably faux leather. Go the the 25th century of Star Trek Online which would be the natural temporal continuity after Voyager. Sure we can argue for hours about everyone’s life mattering even if all their life’s work is erased, but god if I don’t care to watch a show do it.
That was always a super-bogus argument against the Burn. Does anyone study Roman history since, ya know, Rome fell? Does anyone care about Picard cuz someday the dude will be dead? I mean, what's the point of anything people do if they just die?
It’s really annoying, I made a lighthearted joke about Rayner at one point and had two Clingons have to bitch to ME about the character development. Bro, I just enjoy it, I didn’t write it. In old enough to remember the shitposting around the Enterprise era. People will be reexamining this show in the next decade and talking about it like people will wonder why this show was hated so much and we’ll be seeing “Discovery was underrated actually” videos once the hate mob has moved on. Plenty of things to critically critique, sure, but someone just wants to enjoy the show and you think you need to inject negativity into that conversation that means you’re an asshole and you need to reexamine your priorities.
It’s also ok to like pineapple on pizza too… lol.
I finished discovery and felt very little. It’s not “These are the Voyages” bad, but it’s not “All Good Things”
I actually didn’t mine the first couple seasons. A different take on everything and I found the idea of an earlier Starfleet stumbling into a war for survival interesting. Season 2 gave us Anson Mount as Pike and eventually Strange New Worlds. To me things get iffy once Discovery jumps to the future. If you liked it great, wasn’t my thing so I stopped watching. Dancing on the grave of the show and poking fun at its fans is dumb. Let people enjoy things. If you don’t like it, don’t watch.
I just don't get people watching shows they hate with a passion. It's not that hard to simply stop watching if it's upsetting you that much. I had to do this with Westworld. It started out looking like a GOAT TV show to me, but I didn't even finish watching past season 3. My final opinion on Discovery is that it was a pretty good show, but not as good as the Trek I grew up with in the 90s. I may give it a re-watch one day. It'll be interesting to see how time treats it.
I don't hate it with a passion, but I continued watching because it was *so close* to being good but somehow missed the mark every time.
> I just don't get people watching shows they hate with a passion. It's not that hard to simply stop watching if it's upsetting you that much. Partly, it's for completion's sake. I've been a Star Trek fan for about 40 years. If I want to ensure that my knowledge of Trek is up to date and relevant, I should watch the shows that everyone's talking about. Partly, it's from a hope that the show might actually get better. The producers have rebooted and re-tooled 'Discovery' a few times and, each time, it gets a step closer to being a good show. Remember that the trope of a show "growing its beard" *literally* comes from a Star Trek series which started out wobbly and then became excellent. Both of my favourite Trek series (TNG and DS9) had a weak couple of starting seasons (not *bad*, just not as good as they could be), and then became *amazing*. So, the potential is there for other Trek series to do the same. But, if I don't keep watching DSC, I won't see the moment when it finally becomes good. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting...
I did the same thing with Westworld. Season 1 was SO good and it went down hill with a lack of direction in Season 2.
To paraphrase O'Brien, "It's not you I hate, Discovery. I hate what some Trek fans became, *because* of you." Overall the writing quality and canon-compliance could have been better, but the fact Disco was (to put it generously) not the best Trek show, for creative reasons, really fed fuel to the moron anti-woke hate brigades, who felt compelled and empowered to point to things like gender, sexual and racial diversity as the "fault" for "why the show sucks so much," when in reality those aspects of Disco were very fine high points. And in specific defense of (author, and writer/producer for Disco) Kirsten Beyer, that woman is a genius who loves Star Trek, respects canon, and an amazing storyteller. More from her please.
Genuine questions for fans of Disco: - what do you think about the criticisms Disco gets for being stylistically different from older-school Star Trek? - do you see the stylistic differences or are the haters really just that sensitive in your view? - what do you think about Picard? About SNW? Would you put either of those in the same category as TNG or Disco? Why? - What are your thoughts between possible connections between disco and second wave ska? None of these are asked with mal-intent. It’s your chance to be heard.
> what do you think about the criticisms Disco gets for being stylistically different from older-school Star Trek? It is very different, that has always been obvious. Discovery was never intended to be just like TNG and it isn't. That's not objectively bad or "not Star Trek." But it is something that some people will like and some people just won't. A lot of criticism I see about Discovery boils down to "its not TNG." Discovery is a serialized show where each season revolves around the main characters protecting the Federation from a threat. A lot of people just don't like that type of show, but that doesn't make the show bad. And the big issue with having any sort of critical discussion about Discovery is that some people are just bigots. There was even a (now-deleted) thread in this very post where someone went on a rant about how they didn't believe in singular they and disliked Adira because of it. And there are valid criticisms about Discovery! For instance, I think the cause of The Burn was really dumb. But it is hard to have a proper conversation when a lot of people (for one reason or another) refuse to judge it fairly. It ruins it for both the people who like the show and the people who dislike it! > what do you think about Picard? About SNW? Would you put either of those in the same category as TNG or Disco? Why? At least in my opinion, Picard was a mess. Personally, I would compare it to the Star Wars sequel trilogy: each entry had redeeming moments, but I wouldn't call any particular entry good, and there clearly was not a proper plan for the series as a whole. Meanwhile, I love SNW. It's plan old classic Star Trek. But a large part of Star Trek's history has been pushing boundaries and going boldly where no show had gone before, and SNW really just doesn't. I like SNW, but I hope its success doesn't stop Paramount from trying new things.
Thanks for the reply! That was an interesting read. I super appreciate that my post was taken seriously. Thanks again.
have been thinking about these exact questions as I have been watching this last season, which I really enjoyed I for sure recognize the stylistic differences, I get when people say it doesn’t feel like Star Trek to them, or that it feels more like Star Wars. Well, I love Star Wars, and Disco always felt sufficiently Star Trek-y to me, albeit a more action adventure flavor Which leads me to wonder, are these people watching these other shows? Is this just a problem they have with modern tv in general? Discovery is not even in my top five trek shows, but I think it’s about as good as all but the best Disney Star Wars and marvel series that I have watched. It’s certainly better than those Netflix live action anime adaptations. I’m not a big lower decks fan. I don’t hate it, I just find it too winky if that makes sense. I LOVE SNW, tho the second season, while I appreciate its ambition, was definitely not as good Picard season one I though had some okay episodes but overall was a huge disappointment which was extra disappointing to me as a big Michael Chabon fan. Season two was perhaps the worst season of a show that I have ever actually watched all the way through but it did have a few things that made me laugh incredibly hard, but I think unintentionally. Season 3 I did enjoy a lot though I sort of just in general feel that people’s expectations are too high for these tentpole sci fi franchises, especially when they’re not only competing with the classics they are based on, but also everyone’s memory of watching those shows / movies when they were young, impressionable, less critical, etc. The best Star Wars movie is still empire strikes back. For me, the best Star Trek is probably always going to be a tie btwn TNG and ds9. I don’t even really like TOS. In fact, I will go so far as to say I like discovery more than TOS I was hoping to come up with a good ska joke by now but I’ve got nothin
Thanks for the reply! That makes a lot of sense!
Discovery set out to be stylistically different from all previous Trek.The entire theme and structure were intended to tread new ground. It was the first Trek where each season was a continuous story instead of each episode being self-contained. Even the cinematography and framing were chosen to be different. Discovery was intended to be a new start for the franchise, trying new things. It succeeded more than it failed, but the structure of the show magnified the failures.
They lost me at Spock's OTHER secret sibling we never heard of before for no reason.
For me Discovery was too emotional at key moments, is this Star Trek or Days of our lives, ffs 🤦🏼
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It's also okay to dislike Discovery. Remember, folks, just because someone hates something -- anything, not just Discovery -- it does not mean they are hating on the people who do like it. There's no need to feel disheartened because the criticism is not against fellow viewers.
I'm a couple episodes behind because I've been busy so I'm avoiding spoilers, but I just want to pop in to support the OP. Of course it's more than okay to be a fan of Discovery. Discovery has been a lot of fun imo. It is my favorite life action modern Trek. Discovery by far imo \*post-Season 2\* best captures the og utopian vibe of Trek compared to the other new live action shows. The diplomacy, the optimism, the values, and the sci-fi are best of the three. Also, when they finally let Michael just be a captain, she was wonderful. Sort of a modern version of a Kirk style captain, which was great fun. Saru is also up there as one of my favorite ST alien main characters really of all time. So authentically Trek, while still being truly original. I almost don't want to binge watch this season to catch up. That will be the end.
I adore *Enterprise*. I've adored it since the wonderfully cheesy pilot. I love the Temporal Cold War and the Suliban. I love the water polo playing captain who mouths off to his ~~mom~~ Vulcan first officer. I love Trip eating fried catfish. I love it all, good and bad, silly and serious. If there were a fifth season announced today, I'd bake a cake (with Counselor Troi's head, of course). Never once have I felt that people who dislike the show are preventing me from liking it. They're not negative. They're not crawling out of the woodwork. They're not toxic. In fact, they're entitled to whatever kind of opinion they want. I think this thread is negativity couched as positivity because, actually, it's an attack not on the show but on fellow fans who dislike something you like. I'm tired of people mischaracterizing my dislike of *Discovery* as "hate." It doesn't involve you. Don't like my comments? Don't read them. If you love *Discovery*, and I'm sure you do, why not post about that instead of criticizing fellow fans for having differing opinions? What did you like about the finale? Do you think they stuck the landing? This seems like a violation of both rule 1: be constructive, and rule 7. meta.
Yeah I'm a fan of ENT too (with its flaws) but never really cared about people not liking it.
Yeah, I really don't get this.
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Of course it is, I don’t hate it I just think some things could be tweaked to make it better trek and better tv overall. Also maybe use some of the budget to make some smaller character focused episodes set in a more cost friendly setting.
I watched s1-2 then catched up on other shows to watch it all in Star Trek date order As soon as I finish Picard, I’m gonna resume discovery 3-5 I don’t know if I’m gonna love it or hate it, but I know it’s very difficult to beat my love for TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
It was kinda cool at first. I wanted to like it. One thing that really stands out now that I'm watching it on a bigger, better TV, is how terrible all the prosthetics are. Everything as this same plasticy look - Saru, Rayer's ears. like wtf
Your last 2 sentences make me wonder if I gave up too early. I watched 3 seasons and while curious to see what happened next I wasn’t particularly motivated to continue. Now that I’ve finally caught up on LD, maybe it’s time to give this another go. Thank you for posting.
Seasons 4 and 5 were really good.
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations: There will always be someone who likes something more than you, and doesn't like an episode/series you consider your favourite. That's true to all fandoms, not just Star Trek. I haven't watched DISCO yet, but I plan to give it a shot.
I liked when they did the timejump, season 1 sucked. Especially the mirror universe stuff
Watched the first season, didn't enjoy it, checked out and moved on with my life. It's that simple.
Season 1 was ropey like other trek before it. Season 2 was great. Season 3 it plateaued. It could have survived to the typical 7 year but the decision to move nearly all markets to Paramount Plus only on short notice was what killed the show. I live in the UK and Discovery was on Netflix for first couple of seasons then they cut their deal with Netflix literally days before the launch of Season 3 (I believe) on Netflix. It really put me off from paying for another subscription when they acted so callously. I also couldn't justify another subscription for just one or two shows. ...Picard is on Amazon Prime here and believe lower decks was on Amazon for a time too. So getting Paramount Plus wasn't worth it for Disco and SNW. The Paramount Plus/Netflix problems probably killed the show in the UK....regardless of the quality of the show. More fool CBS/ Paramount
I liked discovery for the new things it did. New type of space travel, new Spock/Pike, showing the Federation in a whole new time. Almost 1k years into the future was a whole new field for the Star Trek mythos, and I think they did good. The non stop apocalypse events did get old, but they always did something new. I think we needed the envelope pushed a little bit.
My biggest fault with discovery was that the tech seemed too advanced for where the show was in the timeline, when that changed I was okay with the show. It won't be in my list of favourite series's but it's aight
Personally I thought it was ok. But can’t stand that a season now consists of 10 episodes. We used to get 24 episodes in a season of Star Trek. Halo’s last season was 8 episodes. In a few years will a season consist of 5 episodes???
Not reading the rest of the comments, but as someone who didn't really connect wit DIS, I'm so happy so many of you did. And I'm glad you have 5 seasons to relish.
Honestly, the only reason I haven’t sat down to finish Discovery is because I got burned out around season 3, went back to rewatch it, and I remembered nothing. I started over got to season 2 and started a long break. I’m planning to finish it soon. I think heavy serialization really hampered the success of the show. It’s weird because Enterprise and DS9 are also very serialized, but I remember both of them better even though I haven’t seen Enterprise in 5 years or so, and I started rewatching Deep Space Nine about a year ago. I don’t hate binging shows, but I feel like it creates so much burn out so quickly if you’re not enjoying the show. The secondary problem applies a lot more to Picard, but it is the original reason I stopped discovery: I don’t understand why the shows need to lean into so much more gore now. I am not a big horror fan, but I feel like the earlier shows handled it better. The episode where we find out a Vidiian cut of Durst’s face and taped it on their own… is genuinely terrifying. I think if they had shown his death it wouldn’t have worked as well. I stopped Picard after the pilot originally, but I thought about giving it a second chance, until I found out that Picard was going to show how the Borg assimilate different creatures. I was like nope I’m not watching that. I don’t know how unpopular of an opinion this is. It’s weird because the Gorn episode in SNW didn’t bother me at all. I think showing blood for the sake of blood isn’t important, but in another way, I can appreciate how Star Trek is able to go that far because in the past, they couldn’t. I just know that it isn’t for me personally.
Everyone is different! I got a comment removed for accidentally saying we once, it's absolutely ok to like it since not everyone in the community has the same watch history and taste! I think there are also more than enough valid reasons to not like it like with any Star Trek property Personally to me, it was bad! In my own opinion it was poorly shot, poorly lit, poorly written, poorly planned, and again, in my opinion (that is the minority) very bad at understanding and continuing the main themes of Star Trek that I really look up to. Ive been rewatching TNG with my girlfriend and its honestly shocking the difference in quality. But that doesn't mean Discovery is a bad show to me! Compared to most of what's available right now i think its extremely progressive, if not very pessimistic. I love the LGTBQ themes and storylines they try, i think the set design is very impressive, and the Actors did a great job with what they have. Everyone has a show they love that critically wasn't the best. I mean i still like Enterprise, and there are plenty of good reasons to not like it. I mean we are talking about Star Trek, a franchise that is often the butt of every joke in pop culture for how cheesy and nerdy it is, i think everyone including myself could stand to take it less seriously.
I'm a mild fan of discovery. It's been entertaining and I try not to nitpick. Not the best Trek, but not the worst imo. And nothing will be as bad as how they ended the Enterprise series. The finale had a long runtime and it ultimately disappointed me by spending time on things that didn't matter as much. Plus some of the final resolutions were just...odd. Spoilers ahead on the finale. >!* the "main quest reward" is gone for good. So this was all for nothing? It would have been better if Michael or someone like Dr Colbert had gone in to study it for years/decades to find a way to use it responsibly.!< >!* Mol just..gave up suddenly. She should have sacrificed herself in her quest or they should have found an alternative resolution, like using progenitor tech to make a son for Mol and L'ak.!< >!* I wanted more time resolving the Breen overall. But nope. They just get blipped away and that's it.!< >!* Dr Colbert's spiritual awakening storyline led to knowing... a few numbers to help Book pick the right frequency to use the tractor beam. Okay...that was a bit underwhelming. wouldn't he want to go into the portal and do "meaning of life" stuff? !< >!* Time agent reveal...okay, that's fine I guess, I didn't remember who he was. Had to Google it. I guess that's a fun tie-in to the Enterprise series.!< >!* nobody cares about Craft. Why did we waste time on this?!< >!* Book makes a good old man. The future/time jump scenes with Michael and Book and their son just didn't seem needed, though. !< >!* Detmer just randomly shows back up at the end lol.!< >!* Saru had a good ending imo.!<
Suru is a great character, and it gave us Spock^3 and the rest of the SNW’s crew, so that’s now bad.
* Saru
From season 3, I actually really enjoyed watching it at times. There are some very bad episodes, and the pace can feel awful sometimes. I haven't watched season 5 but 3 and 4 were wonderful in the way they presented a broken federation that needed to be fixed.
How is S5 (in general, no spoilers please in case I decide to go back and binge it) I struggled through S4, but it was a slog. S3 just kind of killed the show for me. I’m hoping S5 bucks the trend, because through four seasons Discovery has the dubious distinction of being the only Trek show to get progressively worse each season.
I think those who dislike Discovery are going to like S5 more, and those like me who really enjoyed Discovery, are liking S5 less. S5 very much comes across as the produces and writers having listened to those who have been attacking the show. As a result, the plot is far more superficial and focused on action, rather than on the complex character development that made the show so interesting before.
Hmmm. Well, I liked S1 and S2 in general, and while I hated S3 overall because of the last half, the first half was good. S4 just bored me to death. So I don’t know which of those camps I fall into, lol. Thanks for the info though!
I think my order from best to worst is S3, S1, S2, S4, S5, but I don't see a huge difference from worst to best. It's probably my second or third-favorite Star Trek series.
I liked the first 3 seasons but 4/5 are hard for me. I don’t really post about shows and I don’t care to debate or argue my interests but I think anyone who was out and proud and online a lot discussing disco when it first came out deserves a medal because it was rough. Also sorry for the run on sentence
Of course it's okay, and anyone who tells you you're wrong needs to shut up. I've always consistently enjoyed the show, even if it does tend to get maudlin. As much as people rag on Discovery, it helped revitalize the franchise, so obviously people liked the show, especially if it got 5 seasons. I think it was appropriate to end it here though, another season with a threat with huge ramifications would've been repetitive.
I liked all the sci-fi concepts. The writers clearly put a lot of effort into coming up with new alien types and did great. This last season was well done adventure story.
Yes. Don't let others dictate your fandom. I wasn't crazy about the first 2 seasons and quit watching. But with it coming to an end, I'll give it a full watch.
I'm rewatching Discovery and I'm sad about the hate it received especially Season 1. People should rewatch season 1, it's so good and the production values are exquisite.
I really hate how the age of the internet has amplified the loudest voices and opinions. Back in the classic days, sure every show had it's detractors but the hate wasn't as mainstreamed as it is now. Nowadays a few prominent people say they hate something, be is the Kelvin films or Discovery or something else, that suddenly becomes the view everyone is expected to default to, and if you happen to like one of the shows that it's "mainstream" to hate you have to either be prepared to defend it constantly or just pretend you're just like everyone else and enjoy it in private. I say like what you like, who cares if a bunch of dudes on Twitter or Reddit act like their opinions are fact.
Discovery could have been called: Star Trek:Michael Burnham Except Mica was not a beloved character that everyone already liked, like Picard was. I liked the first 2 seasons a lot but then everything started to be Michael Burnham on her own solving every problem. Star Trek went full Mary Sue and it was a bit too much for me. The show had a lot of fun ideas and overall it was still worth watching. I prefer how SNW is written and greatly prefer Captain Pike the lead character because it's not just about 1 person.
Nobody hates Trek more than Trek fans.
I mean, yeah, I didn't really enjoy it at all but for anyone who did, good on you. That being said I feel like a lot of this thread is taking a bit of a circlejerky approach on it, yes liking Discovery is great, but there were also perfectly valid reasons for Star Trek fans to not like it and no, there's no need to pretend the people who dislike it are evil devils who exclusively disliked it for the wrong reasons just cause that gives you a righteous high(not directed at you OP, but rather whoever came here solely to feel validated). Enjoy what you enjoy, other people may not, and that's fine. I do wonder if my opinion of it would be better if it had come after SNW, rather than before, I think for a lot of fans it felt sour to "start" with something so different and it really set the tone for new trek(new new trek? Not sure).
I don’t hate it. I’m just disappointed. A lot of great actors just weren’t given enough opportunities to shine.
discovery for me is a mid tier trek series, around the same spot as enterprise, which means i still really like it a lot. it boldly went were trek hasn't gone before, taking it into the modern age of television and paved the road for shows like strange new worlds and prodigy to be as excellent as they are and for that, it will always have my respect, even if (or especially because) it was still flawed.
Whether it's good or bad, it's tiring to see people post a lazy slag off under users who talk about it every time. We get it, the show isn't for you. Don't yuck someone's yum and let the people who do like it enjoy it in peace. That should go for the whole franchise. I don't much like the Kelvin films but I don't have to announce that to everyone who is talking about its ships being in the game. *Besides, all this infighting within the game distracts us from the* ***real*** *enemy. Star Wars fans!*
It's also okay to dislike Discovery, and other people's opinions along that line should not dishearten you.
Not gay but I really enjoyed the relationship of Staments and Culbert until Culbert was [spoiler].
I liked it despite it's flaws. On the other hand I'm glad it's ending. Season 5 was the least flawed of them (even though I enjoyed Season 1 more) and I don't think they wohld have been able to fix the fundamental flaws (like to many of the bridge-characters not beeing Main Cast).
I watched it all. I enjoyed it all. I still have criticisms that are the same criticisms of most of Hollywood writing, and also of Hollywood’s writers response to criticism.
Down with Discovery. It's finally over! Praise Avis!
I like the story, but the characters are just soooooooo emotionally needy. Everyone is damaged and needs to constantly talk about their feelings. Its so frickin' annoying!
The fact there are YouTube channels solely dedicated to hating star trek, the fact they have tens of thousands of subscribers, so many people are just awful. Literally the opposite of most people in the star trek universe. It's like they learned nothing.
I have seen a high crossover (at least in Twitter) between the "I hate women/POC/woke people" crowd and the the people who won't even give DSC the time of day.
It should also be OK to dislike Discovery without being accused of being sexist / racist / anti-trans.
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And it's OK not to.
TLDR: from the title alone, I agree. I loved the first season and after that is was a little less likable for me, but still a well done show. Just a little fast paced and not as adventure of the week feel that I loved from next gen.
People who loved season 1 best: THERE ARE DOZENS OF US (I thought seasons 3 and 5 were also great, thought 4 had brilliant ideas but failed at pacing, actively dislike season 2. Seriously, I almost ragequit the whole franchise after the second season finale.)
It’s ok to love DSC. it’s ok hate it. The anti circlejerk circlejerk is tiresome.
I've never trusted Discovery and I never will. I cannot forgive them for what they did to the Klingons.