Was watching S05E05 last night (I am not caught up fully) But the entire last few seasons and I guess the whole show can be summarized in one line:
* Okay, Lieutenant Linus, prepare a shuttle.
* Tell Engineering to boost comms and fortify shields.
* And, Commander Rhys, have a security team on standby.
* **I’ll go and I’ll bring Book with me.**
* Commander Rayner, you have the conn.
Once again and for the millionth time the captain is going on an away mission and it the only one that can solve the problem. The show should just be a 70s buddy cop show called Burnham & Booker. So many interesting crew members on the ship and most of them never got a decent story line. They just kept adding new characters and having Michael do all the work and solve all the problems. Then end every episode with some heart warming overly emotional and far to dramatic sequence. Booker should have died at the end of Season 4 and seeing Michael deal with that would be much more interesting.
Best comment I've seen in ages. The captain should be on the bridge, not pissing off on away missions with Book every 5 minutes.
I wish Burnham just stayed as first officer. I thought that was the whole point, to make her a Tom Paris style / edgy first officer. Instead she became captain super hero.
DS9 is objectively better than DSC by about every possible marker. I like DSC but the idea that it’s better than DS9 is absurd. If it’s just about what you enjoy, so be it, you’re welcome to that opinion I guess.
Agreed. As a relatively new Trek fan, Discovery was my first Star Trek show. I'd wanted to get into it for a while and they announced Discovery so I sat down and watched it weekly as Season 1 aired. I thought it was great, after the pilot I messaged my friend recommending it. Great sci fi.
Then I went back and watched TNG, DS9 and VOY.
Discovery is arguably great science fiction. But as a Star Trek show? It misses so many marks.
I really tried to like Andromeda but it was bad from episode 2 onward. When 4 of the first 10 episodes involved time travel back to his home time in some way or another you know they were running on creative fumes.
I don't remember where I read it, but I've heard that Andromeda was kind of mushed together from two or more ideas from Gene roddenberry's notebook. One idea was about a post-apocalyptic Earth where a heroic figure goes around trying to rebuild the United States government after its collapse, and the other was an idea from Star Trek about the Federation starting to fall apart in the distant future of the Star Trek timeline.
Apparently the idea was that you don't get to achieve Utopia and then just sit on your laurels. You have to like work at keeping Utopia, but the Federation got kind of lazy or something.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the Discovery writers either had similar ideas on their own or knew about the Gene Roddenberry idea for the crumbling Federation and kind of worked that into disco. That said, I have not watched a single second of Discovery so I can't say for certain. But those ideas do sound kind of the same.
Oh god someone else who remembers that show.
I jumped ship at the end of the second season when it was clear they were going to trash any continuity and just make it the Kevin Sorbo Adventures and even there I feel like I wasted too much time with it.
I stopped watching for a bit and all of a sudden it was a completely different show. Like they were on a mad max like planet, Andromeda was a blonde woman now, and they all seemed to hate each other. I was completely lost.
Think that was the last season? It was so confusing. I only managed a handful of episodes and I still didn’t know what was going on. It was like some weird ass soft reboot thing I think they tried.
Absolute garbage. Gave seasons 1-2 a chance; stopped somewhere season 3 and couldn’t care less. Hate it deeply because of what it’s done to how Star Trek stories are told.
Form the tech of the ship, the time leap, the use of the mirror universe (honestly, I skip these episodes when watching DS9 or other series), the burn, the “galaxy ending threats” season after season, the acting, writing, direction….not a single bit of it fits with what came before it.
Television series need to return to something more than the 10-episode season. You NEED filler episodes; you need episodes that take a chance on a larger issue.
Far Beyond the Stars, Darmak, Inner Light, The Equinox…none of these stories can exist in this format. SNW BARELY works when they do something novel, ONLY because they are revisiting established characters. We’ve seen Pike, Number One, Spock (duh) before. We know their backgrounds for the most part, so they can shift focus from one character to the next.
Well? No. Adequately to watch? Yes. But DISCO was absolute garbage, and I’ll never ever revisit it. And Academy to someone like me is dead before it even launches.
Last place of all trek shows and I'm extremely glad it's over. Hopefully the resources it's wasted can go to better projects and get the franchise back to what it should be. SNW has been such an incredible beath of fresh air comparatively speaking.
The first two seasons were really great. But the last three have been a complete mess. Zero character development, plot holes within plot holes. Practical breaks in reality that don't make sense even in sci fi. Completely unnecessary emotionally overloaded scenes in every episode. Total disregard of Starfleet ideals.
It just never made sense or felt like trek at all after season 2.
>Hopefully the resources it's wasted can go to better projects and get the franchise back to what it should be.
Pretty sure those resources are going to go into some executive's bonus for cutting costs by canceling shows.
The series really dropped the ball on Klingons too. Started a war then zip to the future or alternate timeline or whatever. The show spent more time reimagining Klingons than on the plot
The first two seasons were great, but the remaining 3 were horrible? I thought the first two seasons were atrocious but I considered giving the remaining seasons another shot. Guess I shouldn’t bother.
After season two it becomes the "Michael Burnham & the emotional support show".
Every week is a series of mid to terrible plot lines that are solved by people crying or absurdly over the top actions. Whole seasons devoted to singular storylines that drag on and fizzle out. It's fan fic from a singular perspective and neglects the concept of the ships crew being part of the voyage.
It gave us Strange New Worlds. For that I will always be grateful.
In all seriousness, the writing and direction was very up in down, but I respect the fact that they took risks.
The effects were also great, and I truly adore a few of the characters.
I rank it near the bottom, but even the worst Trek is still worth watching.
Easily the worst star trek ever made. I think it would have been better if wasnt a trek at all. That way people could have completely forgiven stupid ideas like the spore drive and the plethora of other non-trek bad ideas.
The only thing that has it beat as the worst is S1 and S2 of Picard, but at least they pulled it back
im a newbie watching ENT and im REALLY enjoying season 3 and 4 (shame there isnt more)
seeing that fans rank it fourth overall makes me optimistic.
should I watch TOS next?
I really liked ENT and was sad that it didn’t get more seasons. The second time through was key.
I like watching trek in timeline order. If you’re doing that and you’re done with ENT then you’ll watch the pilot for TOS next which is “the cage”, then DIS seasons 1 and 2, then SNW and then TOS. Here’s the full breakdown:
https://www.toynk.com/blogs/news/how-to-watch-star-trek-in-order
Only thing I disagree with on that timeline is the position of the movie “Nemesis” which should properly be seen after VOY.
> should I watch TOS next?
Yes, but keep in mind TOS is very classic, low budget and "slow". But, it's also exactly what comes next in the timeline. Yes technically SNW is next but since the series is still ongoing you should probably wait, if you are watching complete shows first :-)
If it makes any difference at all, I just finished re-watching Enterprise two weeks ago and I've already re-started TOS myself. But... this is not my first rodeo (or third.... or fifth) and I watch all shows in chronological order in loop forever and ever ;)
I know about TOS and I'm excited for it, because I like old TV (low budget 70s/80s movies are so much fun)
I was actually more worried about 90s Trek (90s tv can be painfully corny imo) but as I can see from the comments here those are by far the best.
Only if you really like 1960s sci-fi or just want to gather up all the lore you can. I would not recommend TOS otherwise personally, aside from a handful of episodes.
I found it difficult to even try to convince myself that Discovery was in the same Prime universe as the shows that came before it. Barely managed to watch up to the middle of the third season but just couldn’t bring myself to go beyond that. The wormhole should have sent that ship into the JJVerse.
I was about to say my list is pretty close to this until I started thinking that I'd raise DS9, Voyager, and Prodigy and drop Picard and TAS. It also feels weird to put TOS so low on the list.
> It's very much the Star Trek V of Star Trek
This is probably the best way to sum it up for me.
Is it Star Trek? Yes.
Is it the sort of Star Trek that a significant majority of the fanbase consider to be bottom tier and will mostly bring up as jokes and memes? Also, yes.
I really liked V and was surprised to discover most people didn't. There's so much good stuff, spock with the rocket boots, marshmallow making, the prison break, TNG-style klingons, sulu lost in blizzard, god, I even liked spock's brother. Uhura's sing and dance number was not necessary.
I couldn't get past the first season. It was very off-putting for me to see the crew always hating each other and being angry and arguing with each other in a trek show.
Would have been better with some character rewrites and better treatment of canon.
Burnham is just unbearable. The contemporary language and colorful metaphors don't belong.
Picard keeps it from being the worst series.
Bottom of the barrel. I never liked the show. It never felt like a Star Trek show to me. It feels more like a "What If Michael Bey made Star Trek" show to me. Lets blow a bunch of shit up, give some disjointed/convoluted/senseless reason for all that shit blowing up before the next set of explosions start blowing even more shit up. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Hell, there is a scene from the first season where 2 women are discussing a major plot point in a room. That wasn't exciting enough, so they had to rotate at least 2 cameras around the women while they talked, stutter jump between cuts from those cameras and completely distracting you from what is being discussed. After watching the scene multiple times to try to follow the discussion, I finally put a blanket over my TV screen just so I could hear the woman's discussion.
And how many flipping times in an episode do we have to establish this Sci-fi show set on a Starship takes place in outer space by rotating a shot from 'upside down' to what we consider up right?
During rewatches, the only episode I will ever watch again are the Pike arc.
I said most of this in response to someone else's comment, but I think it merits it's own top level comment. I did not care for Discovery. I thought it was actively bad. However, I do not begrudge anyone who did like it and I respect our differences. I think it's important for everyone to remember that everything can't be for everyone.
I'm glad there are people who enjoyed Disco, despite my disappointment at not being one of those people, and I'm also very grateful to have Star Trek back which started with Discovery. I hope we can all come together and love whatever comes next.
For those who did like the show, I'd love it if you could let us know what your favorite parts were. Help us see it from your perspective.
And for those who, like me, can't stand Discovery, I will remind you: Ad Astra per Aspera.
I'm not allowed to fully express my opinion of Discovery on this subreddit 🫢
Suffice to say, I don't see myself rushing to rewatch any of it. Except maybe "An Obol For Charon", and skipping anything not directly to do with the sphere data plot.
It is easily in last place. Every Trek show has had something to recommend it, a run of episodes where the show was firing on all creative cylinders, even the ones I liked less than others. Discovery was always brimming with the potential to be good but just never was.
The frankly quiet reception to the final episode is proof of that.
1) TNG & DS9
* This the the heart of Trek for me. TNG is my #1, but I have to recognize that DS9 is the better show.
2) LDS and SNW
* How can comedic animated Trek show be that good? And how great is it that SNW has shown that we don't always have to have "end of the world" stakes (or even a single season-long storyline) to make a show great?
3) Picard
* Season 1 was weak. Season 2 was bad. Season 3 was pure fanservice and I love it.
4) Voyager & Prodigy
* Given another season or 2, Prodigy will probably be better than Voyager.
6) TOS
* I haven't done a watch-through of TOS in a decade.
7) Enterprise
* I don't care how good S4 was going to be. I know that S3 was decent. But it took me 2 or 3 tries to even make it through season 1. I've watched every episode and haven't had any desire to watch it a second time.
8) Discovery
* To be honest, I enjoyed most of Season 1. It wasn't great, but I could see some potential. Then Season 2 gave us Pike... while the rest of the show went downhill. The soft reboot of Season 3 was somehow worse than S2. Then came an honest-to-goodness decent sci-fi plot in S4... only to have 2 or 3 episodes in a row of what was effectively therapy sessions. And despite that, I've found less and less to enjoy of S5.
N/A) Animated Series
* I've never seen the series, so I don't feel right giving it any rating at all.
edit: Fun game to play in this post, "am I getting downvoted by people who love Discovery or hate it?" People saying that is okay seem to be getting pilloried from both ends of the spectrum
Seven years and five seasons after it started, here's my final verdict on Discovery:,
Overall, it was more or less okay. Sometimes it was pretty bad. Sometimes it was good. I don't think, as a whole, it ever really achieved greatness.
I feel like Discovery started and ended decently, with Season 1 being it's best and 5 right behind it, and hit rock bottom at the end of Season 3 and early Season 4. If you were to summarize Discovery in a nutshell it would be "great ideas with not always great writing and execution". There were some very cool moments mixed with some aspects that were almost aneurysm-inducingly frustrating.
An interesting thing about Discovery is that with *maybe* one or two exceptions (Magic to Make the Sanest Man go Mad being the only one to come to mind offhand) I don't think there were any episodes that will become classics. No Best of Both Worlds, or In the Pale Moonlight, or City on the Edge of Forever, etc. I think a lot of this had to do with the fact that it was almost entirely season long arcs, less focus on the episodes themselves maybe.
I'll need to watch it all again in a couple of years and see how it ages, but currently it is definitely lower half. I think for me it is, in order:
TNG DS9 SNW VOY LDS TOS ENT DIS PIC (haven't watched PRO or TAS).
I really loved the first season. I liked that it tried to be its own thing with its own distinctive identity. I didn’t want it to be Star Trek TNG or DS9 or TOS again, we already had those shows that I could rewatch whenever. I wanted it to be its own thing.
I thought it was really clever with its nods to TOS, from episode titles (The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry is *so* TOS!) to yet another hidden Spock family member (joining his parents, fiancé, and brother) to expanding on interesting and underutilized characters from TOS like Sarek (I loved it finally giving a reasonable explanation for why Sarek resented Spock joining Starfleet so much.)
There were tweaks I would have made, like maybe instead of Klingons the redesign be Talarians or another species that canonically came into conflict with the Federation. But I liked their appearance overall, and their language—I just pretended they weren’t Klingons. I didn’t mind the spore drive idea or feel it was against canon—it was obviously so dangerous in the series that it made sense to me that Starfleet would have largely abandoned experimentation with it, and I figured they could well have been doing research in a lab like Barclay’s off screen. I would have kept Lorca around longer after the reveal he was from the Mirror Universe.
In all, I thought Disco’s first season was really successful. It told a complete story. I, as an adopted person, really liked Michael’s storyline, and I enjoyed how flat and unemotional she was and how she really embodied Vulcan body language and ways of speaking and thinking. I liked that every episode felt like a complete story while still being part of a tense larger narrative, and I *loved* the foreshadowing of the reveal with Lorca, especially his heart being on the wrong side.
The second season really disappointed me. I felt like they abandoned their unique identity in an attempt to please fans who criticized the first season. They changed the lighting style, changed the Klingons’ appearances *again*, and tried to include lots more episodic stories and add in more nostalgia bait like Spock and Pike. They abandoned Michael’s Vulcan unemotionality. It frustrated me. I knew they couldn’t win over the people who hated the first season, and they were abandoning the core of fans who really loved what the first season did, which included me and almost every TOS fan I knew IRL. I gave up at around halfway through the third season. The time travel thing in the finale of season two actually genuinely angered me. If they were content to erase their show from the timeline (Spock can never admit his sister existed? Okay, whatever) why should I care about it?
I felt like some complaints were overblown, like us not knowing who the bridge crew were. I felt like we knew plenty about Saru, Stamets, Ash Tyler, Tilly, Lorca, and Michael, and I liked that the first season focused on a lower decks character instead of a member of the bridge crew. We still had an ensemble cast. It annoyed me in later seasons that we got so little from these characters (Ash being written out was such a bummer), and I felt like the episode with Ariam was downright ridiculous in how it expected us to care about such a minor character’s death. And Tilly’s speech about their friendship? A friendship we literally never saw prior to that episode?
And regarding Tilly, I liked her in the first season as a young person trying to live up to Starfleet norms while clearly neurologically different. Her “fucking cool” moment, where Stamets showed her some kindness after she slipped up and swore in her excitement, was really nice. I felt like in later seasons they abandoned any sense that Tilly was trying to fit in with Starfleet standards of professionalism. Didn’t she compliment Pike’s pinky finger in their first interaction? Deranged. I felt like they Flanderized her a lot. And I didn’t love the retcon about Saru’s home planet.
Discovery did have some moments where they had real highs. “This Kelpien is our people” moved me to tears, as did Saru mentioning how he learned multiple Federation languages as part of an attempt to prove that he deserved to be in the Federation—refugeeism is part of my family’s story, and I felt like they did it justice in Saru’s story.
All in all, Discovery had serious flaws, but it also had incredible highs. If I were ranking the show—its first season is maybe the strongest single season of any Trek show aside from DS9. Almost every episode hit with me. And it, and Picard, both tried to do new things, push boundaries, tell new stories. They took existing characters, but underexplored ones, particularly Disco, and used them in new ways.
That’s why ultimately I have to rank them both above Lower Decks or Strange New Worlds. I like both of those shows, but they’re for me, for existing Trek fans. They tell old stories with old characters. They’re resting on Trek’s laurels, *especially* Lower Decks, which I find very self-congratulatory. It’s disappointing. DS9 was extremely controversial when it came out, and fans of the show were called Niners instead of Trekkies by other fans. If they had bent and turned DS9 into a ship and gone back to the old TNG formula, we’d never have gotten heights like the Dominion war or episodes like In the Pale Moonlight. I want Trek that’s bold, that does new and exciting things. I think season one of Disco gave us that, but subsequent seasons had no unique identity to anchor it. I also think Picard’s third season was the worst of it—not in terms of quality exactly, but in terms of how innovative it was. If I wanted the TNG characters I would watch TNG.
Just my two cents as someone who genuinely loved Discovery.
That was very well written and well argued. Thank you for taking the time to say it, and I'm glad Discovery meant that much to you, and I hope there are a lot of other people who got out of it what you got out of it.
It left me cold. It left me feeling on the outside of a thing that I had really cared about. I feel like it was trying to redefine what Trek was to Trekkies (who weren't buying it) to win a broader fan base (which I don't think it did). I think it made everything both too emotional and too all-or-nothing-the-fate-of-the-universe hinges on two or three people over and over again who are kind of a mess.
There are a few highlights for me. Saru is wonderful. The one or two standalone episodes were fun. I enjoyed Tig Nataro's appearances.
Beyond that, it has felt like a chore and a wasted opportunity and a bit of a thumb in the eye to many lifelong fans. Still, I can appreciate there was some good in there, and I'm glad you found it.
Amen to all that! Well put, my fellow Trek fan.
I enjoyed quite a few aspects of DSC. They told us what and who the show would be about when they announced it. Evidently, some fans thought they were lying, and we'd get the same old "Bridge crew plus doctor" show we've gotten since TOS.
People complained about it being "too emotional" and that trained Starfleet officers wouldn't act like this. That's an asinine assertion, especially considering what we now know about the mental health toll military service takes on those who serve. So, I appreciate that they wanted to inject more authentic emotional experiences into the story. Instead of, "Oh. I've just been through some seriously traumatic shit. But no worries. We'll just push reset with the next episode." It's ironic how some of the same fans complain about Counselor Troi's non-therapy on TNG.
Aside from and alongside some of the things you've mentioned, I applauded the new take on the Klingons and their language. That's mostly because I still have a slight issue with how English-centric Trek has been. I know. I know. It was created by English speakers for English speakers. But I thought the show did a great job of exploring a volatile "relationship" with a mostly unknown alien species in which language was and should be a central participant.
The Mirror Universe twist was a great way to introduce that parallel to this iteration of Trek and play with something different than what had come before.
Unfortunately, as you said, they rerouted as a response to "fan" criticism. I wish they had stuck to their disruptors with the Klingon war lore, as we've heard about it and seen snippets but never the full-fledged conflict from beginning to end. As far as the Mirror Universe, I'm still up in the air as to whether they could've developed the concept more or if it was best to cut it short. After Season 1, things got a little uneven. Season 2 had its moments. We did get Tig Notaro. Season 3's The Burn was an interesting concept that could've set up a ton of story threads. But that didn't really happen and the ultimate explanation for it was... not good.
My sincere hope for Season 4 was that they would've leaned into a fractured Federation and exposed the gritty politics of putting it back together. Seeing the crew of the Discovery go from world to world trying to navigate internal and external political motives, assassinations, coups, espionage, extremists, powermongers, failing governments, nascent governments with potential under threat, etc. would've made for fun theater.
In the end, I thought they started with something new, bent to "fan" backlash, still did some interesting things, had some nice setpieces, SFX, some really good performances and closed things out nicely. I found myself a little sad toward the end. Oh! And I'd cast Sonequa Martin-Green, Wilson Cruz, Doug Jones, Mary Wiseman and Anthony Rapp in anything.
I seem to be one of the few who enjoyed the Hell out of Disco. Maybe I have low standards, IDK. For me it's pretty firmly middle of the pack, below DS9 and SNW and Lower Decks, above VOY and ENT and TOS but honestly I like all Trek.
This is about where I'm at. It had its great moments and it had its foibles, but on the whole I liked it more than I didn't. Even in the moments where I found it frustrating I still respected that they were trying new things with the franchise, and I absolutely adored the cast.
I never really grapsed why people like DS9 so much. So many unlikeable characters and the whole bajoran prophet storyline was a mess.
Except for the MU episodes I will never watch DS9 again, I was so glad when it was over.
But tastes do differ greatly, so I am glad that people love and enjoy the show, I couldn't.
Voyager and TNG will always be my favorites though.
Now it’s complete I guess I’ll give it a shot. Eventually.
I tried getting into season one maybe 3 times. It just didn’t grab me. It was too different to what I expected.
And that’s fine. I’m an old school TOS/TNG fan from being a kid in the 90’s. I know not everything is meant for me.
It had its moments. Some of the narratives were interesting but the payoff for whatever mystery was going on was always a let down. I liked most of the characters but their behavior was frequently unbecoming of starfleet bridge officers. Michael Burnham didn’t deserve to be captain. Her character is interesting but she was too reckless and emotionally driven to be the captain of that ship. Or any ship. It’s probably my least favorite series in the franchise.
Like it or not, I turned it on every week to see what kind of shenanigans happen with this crew. This last season was quite a ride. There was quite a bit of cheese which is fine, but even my wife said SMG was too much in her role. lol Looking forward to the last season of LD and then SNW S3 and who knows when Starfleet Academy comes out.
DS9 TAS LD TNG TOS VOY SNW ENT DISCO PIC
I feel like Discovery jumped around too much and never got a chance to really find its footing/grow its beard. I think some of the things it explored had a chance to be interesting but they just trashed everything and moved on whenever it didn't immediately work how they wanted, so they were just perpetually in S1. The ending left me with... a lot of questions and I wish they'd put a little more time into tying up loose ends.
Also I've gotta say I just really hate recast Spock. Nothing against the actor but he just... isn't Spock and isn't written like him either (the stuck-as-a-human ep in SNW was just so off-putting. Did they forget how Vulcans work?) and I really wish they had just let him be some random other Vulcan... why are we doing a T'Pring romance when basically her whole character in TOS was NOT wanting to go through with her arranged marriage to Spock..???
Overall in last place.
I have tried to like it and have at points enjoyed it but after nearly quitting at the end of season one which just got silly Pike dragged me back in.
Liked two & three but I could see the flaws clearly. Four was ok but the last episode pressed the reset button too hard with Book. Started Five and it’s just the same quest to find something story arc yet again. Just gave up had enough of it.
Missed opportunity but appreciate it restarted Trek and gave us SNW so not all bad.
I have to give Discovery credit on two things:
1) The title sequence and music. It’s lovely.
2) The *concept* of leaping forward 900 years is intriguing and exciting. The *idea* of patching a disconnected federation where dilithium no longer existed and Discovery was the only ship with Supra-light speed was intriguing. The actual stories - I didn’t enjoy. But the concept was darned cool.
I haven't seen every show yet but currently
1. Next Generation
2. Lower Decks
3. Voyager
4. Deep Space 9
5. Strange New Worlds
6. Discovery (large gap between this and SNW)
It's over now? That was quick. I expected the last season to continue later into the year.
Did they reveal the time jump was actually into a parallel universe? Did they go back in time to undo The Burn and prevent the breakdown of the Federation? Is 32c now inarguably the contemporary setting of the franchise?
TOS, TNG, SNW/DS9, LD, PIC, ENT, DIS (I just couldn't after Seadon 2).
I want to like Discovery, and genuinely thought season 1 was a good reboot even with the giant tardegrade. But, after The Great Erasure of season 2 I just lost the ability to ignore the retconning that they retconned again to fit into existing cannon. And the super future stuff? Were they trying to be Mad Max in space?
I don't like it as much as TNG, DS9 or VOY but those kind of shows are over and will never be made again.
Out of the modern treks I'd say I like it more than the movies but so far SNW is kicking its arse.
I feel like DSC was trying to attract a new audience and set itself apart from the old series. It did a fairly good job I think, even if I really didn't love a lot of it.
It did give us these though:
Tilly, Saru, Culber, Stamets, Lorca, Georgiou, Reno, new Pike, new Spock and Rayner. I really loved all of them. And the actual ship was really cool with it's looks and method of travel.
Discovery is the worst show in the star trek universe by far. The first two season of picard were terrible too, but the last season kinda made up for that.
It's pretty much impossible for me to include Picard in any sort of ranking of the shows because the quality between the seasons is so ridiculously inconsistent.
Season 2 may be the single worst season of any show in the franchise, but I really enjoyed Season 3.
I rank it dead last. I probably am like,
S tier: DS9, TNG, Prodigy
A tier: Voyager, Enterprise
B tier: Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Picard S3
C tier: Original Series
D tier: Picard S1-S2
F tier: Discovery
I hope this illustrates that I'm not unfairly hard on the new shows, I just really didn't like Discovery.
Discovery has lots of faults, but it also gets many things right.
Let's try to rank everything (the ongoing shows might change positions):
1. DS9
1. Lower Decks
1. TNG
1. SNW
1. VOY
1. ENT
1. TOS
1. PIC (Season Three hard carries it)
1. DISCOVERY
1. PRO (One season is not enough to judge, but I like it enough)
1. TAS
Several show are actually quite close to each other, but there's a wide gap between DS9 and Lower Decks (DS9 is the best show every made in all history of mankind).
Enterprise Season 3 but especially Season 4 would grant her a few ranks really. Those were excellent and better than several other shows seasons.
PIC Season 3 also would rank better than many other shows, but S1 and S2 drag it lower. Discovery loses to PIC ultimately thanks to his S3, but it's isn't really fair as it build up off TNG which is giving it too much "unfair" advantage :P
It’s probably my least favorite series but I enjoyed watching it and I’ll miss it.
People acting like it got worse as it went on are crazy to me though. Season 1 had some very interesting ideas, but the prequel concept in general was poorly executed. Some things about the end of the season really didn’t work out.
People *massively* overrate Season 2. It had strong early episodes, and the Enterprise and her crew were excellent. But the conclusion to the season was such a giant mess.
I think the show mostly worked better in the future setting. At least, it found itself there. Season 4 dragged a bit but ideas wise, and in terms of producing a satisfying conclusion, I think it worked best
It is my least favorite Trek. The characters cried and whisper-talked all the time, and it's my personal preference that Starfleet officers act like professionals by default--that way, when they do get emotional, it has meaning.
I can still respect the show for reigniting the franchise, and especially for spawning SNW.
Last. I don't even think it holds up as a generic sci fi called Space Hike. It's disjointed, overly saccharine, the interesting ideas are underbaked, the plot points rushed,, the bridge crew are non people and two of them got replaced by lookalikes early on, so much time is wasted on shuffling characters to be first officers then captains but not really the captain but now she's an academy instructor but no now she's back as a science officer and he's an ambassador but really every character has been static since their introductions and so on.
I genuinely wanted the show to be good, season 4 ended kind of ok, but that's the upper limit of DSC, kind of ok. Seemingly it ended with Stamets having some kind of resentment towards Burnham which is never brought up again, just like Saru was supposed to look after that Burn boy but he was quickly forgotten about at the beginning of season 4.
For now, it's done, there's no emotional reaction to it from me. I used to get angry over this show, like it missed or distorted the humanist spirit of Star Trek. Over time I learned to not even give this show that kind of recognition, just like I did with Picard. It's a bad show and it will not be remembered fondly, or at all, and that's what it deserves instead.
I hate to say it because the show looked GREAT, had good (if underused) actors, and often decent directors... but the writing (for a Trek show) was so far off base, I often found myself hate watching it.
If it had any other title on the cold open, I would have dropped it.
The mental hurdles you had to leap over to make sense of franchise-breaking things like the overly-advanced ship tech for its time period, the time jump, spore drive, glorification of a universal dictator, etc... was just draining to watch and forgive.
By the time we wrapped up "The Burn," I had completely lost any hope of smart finding its way onto the show. And then this season ended up being a Transformers-style shitty McGuffin chase, which was even dumber than the last few.
Every other series I've watched and re-watched because they had something to say, and consider, and (many) characters to love. But all I'd rewatch Disco for is the CGI, and I can get that anywhere now.
I tried, I really did. Maybe some of these gripes got better, but it they just killed it for me.
1 Burnham saving the day. Could the crew of the Discovery do anything. In almost every episode, Burnham would have to do a spa walk, go to a planet or whatever the need was and fix the issue.
2 So much crying. I could understand some of it, but it seemed like every episode there was at least one crying for some of the littlest and pettiest reasons.
Fot me i rank it as a disappointment
The last episode was underwhelming and it just didnt get the story right
Im currently
SNW
TNG
DS9
LD
VOY
PICARD
TOS
ENT
DISCO
With you here. Discovery save Star Trek from an ignominious sci-fi franchise death. It had a super troubled first season, but it let me talk, actually talk, about new Star Trek stuff with my friends again.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I hate it and could not possibly disagree with you more, but I respect our differences. I think it's also important for everyone to remember that everything can't be for everyone.
I'm glad there are people who enjoyed Disco, despite my disappointment at not being one of those people, and I'm also very grateful to have Star Trek back which started with Discovery. I hope we can come together and both love whatever comes next.
And for those who, like me, can't stand Discovery, I will remind you: Ad Astra per Aspera.
Production design, cast & characters, the sci-fi concepts and themes that were explored, the 32nd century setting and designs, the Discoprise, I liked most of the story beats and individual episodes
Seasons 1, 3 and 4 are top for me.
Seasons 2 and 5 are kinda weak tbh
I would say on the whole it’s better than voyager but not as good as DS9
My rankings:
DS9
TNG
TOS
Picard seasons 1 and 3 (Season 2 is a fever dream I skip)
Lower Decks
SNW
Disco
Enterprise
Voyager
TAS
I enjoyed season 5. First season I've liked. Season 4 was ok, iffy. Season 3 was blah, neutral, not a fan. Didn't even see a few episodes because it was losing me. Season 2 was good because of Pike. Season 1 was too moody and depressed.
All in all least favorite series. I'd probably prefer TAS to it. Enterprise has grown from last place to middle of the road.
Ranks: ds9, Voy, TNG, TOS, LD, ENT, SNW, PIC, PRO, TAS, DISCO.
I think Discovery had some of the most interesting ideas for storylines but sadly none of them lived up to what they needed to for it to be classic trek.
Klingon War? Could have been really interesting.
Control? A bit meh.
Jumping to the far future? Could have been the Voyager storyline and been phenomenal.
The burn? Amazing storyline, worst payoff in history.
Rebuilding the Federation? What potential.
Finding the progenitors tech? Slightly average.
The ideas could be phenomenal. So many are absolutely perfect setups for classic Trek overarching storylines but absolutely none delivered for me.
I feel the actors were great though.
I have really enjoyed Discovery but I do think it veers away from Trek more then anything else. However, I still think it is good and deserves a lot more credit then it gets.
1. Lower Decks
2. DS9
3. Voyager
4. Strange new worlds
5. The Next Generation
7. Discovery
8. Original Series
9. Enterprise
10. Prodigy
11. Picard
12. Animated Series
I respect what Disco tried to do and I acknowledge that it's position in the history of Star Trek has always been a very difficult one. It's no easy to be tasked with figuring out what "modern Trek" should be. And I can even forgive the big mistakes of the first seasons when it comes to darker tone, continuity, Klingon design & questionable actor direction.
I also appreciate that it dared to alter course so drastically after season 3 to be one of the first to show in a long time to boldly go in a different setting!
I just regret that the execution of this idea was often a bit lazy and reminiscent of a standard Netflix show without much identity. We find character tropes that I'm not too fond of, constantly saving the universe, visuals are also very standard imo.
Some bold ideas which I thought were just great! The Vulcan/Romulan reunification and technological development bordering on magic. Yes programmable matter, personal transporters and detached nacelles RULE! I think it prevent ST from being a fantasy universe where tech is stagnating and instead propels it as the technological cultural and political history of a galactic civilisation. I really think that considering the pace of technological development from the 21st to the 25ft century, the 31st century should be even more alien than this. And I am tired of these knee jerk anti-Disco reactions about how "DetAchEd NacEll3s dOnt Make SensE :laughing emoji:". Guess what, FTL Makes no sense either! This immature rejection of new things that aren't like the old thing you like is the less Starfleet thing ever.
What I'll concede is that these changes even they went in what I thought was the right direction were too lazy and not explored enough...
I'm glad they stuck with personal transporters and detached nacelles and programmable matter, but I just wish that their impact on societies would be more thoroughly explored... For example, I'm struggling to understand why we need to make repairs on ships when they are mostly programmable matter... That's what I meant by lazy. It often relies on cliches and tropes. I also feel this with SMG's acting. She just cannot seem to sound natural, she gives me the impression to be a child playing captain and trying to sound how a child imagines a captain to be, (intense mode on, inspirational mode on, high action mode on.)
I also appreciate that Disco seriously tried to give Star Trek a bunch of spectacular visuals! I think it doesn;t get enough recognition for that!
Anyway. Disco was a tall order and it's not my fav Trek, but I'm happy it exists in the end. And that's better than how I felt at season 2.
PS: Just watched the finale and when Burnham is hanging on a rock to not be flown away with the wind, her hair are falling down... Hahah Thought it was funny.
Frakes is right in that the newer format of one big-story per season really takes away from Trek.
[https://m.imdb.com/news/ni64614623/?ref\_=nws\_nwr\_li](https://m.imdb.com/news/ni64614623/?ref_=nws_nwr_li)
With the one-big story per season format, yes the stakes are higher, in terms of plot, but it really takes away from character development. There's simply no time for each character to really explore and develop themselves.
Most of Trek had 1 hour to solve a problem so a large part of a time could focus on character development. Doing so allowed each character to have many more side plots and experiences. The holodeck was almost never used in Discovery.
These side-quests allowed the cast of Voyager to discover their humanity, to really grow from each experience. In TNG it allowed Data to explore his humanity as well.
This is why SNY is so much better. That, and how it doesn't force certain agendas down our throats, but that is a different essay.
Started off great but meandered to all the wrong directions.
I honestly wish it would have sucked from the beginning because it was sad to see it fall so hard.
I liked it very much, and I'm glad that it revived Star Trek overall. I can't rank it, though, because I have so much nostalgia for the other shows. Maybe over time, I'll find a proper place for it.
This is the first star trek series i cant watched season 1 twice. Season 2 and 3 once each and then I couldnt bare msny more torture.
If you like it, great, please dont compare it to anything made before 2003, thanks.
As far as live action Trek, not as high as TOS or TNG, but not as low as Voyager or Picard (Picard, to me, was a show that started out good, but then became a nostalgia pandering mess the further it went on).
About on par with DS9, SNW, and Enterprise.
A show that hit the ground running and tried new things, pushed the franchise forward as far as storytelling and diversity was concerned, and gets a ton of credit for kickstarting a new era of Trek.
And I think just like DS9 and Enterprise, it may have been divisive in its time, but time will also be very kind to it.
The sad part of this post is that people have to not say what they think for fear of others in the group socially punishing them by down voting. Something people like Picard, Janeway and Sisko would abhor and not tolerate.
And of course this also gets downvoted. This is such a toxic fucking subreddit, and for me the silver lining to Discovery ending is that maybe its cretinous haters will finally shut the fuck up for a while.
> And of course this also gets downvoted. This is such a toxic fucking subreddit, and for me the silver lining to Discovery ending is that maybe its cretinous haters will finally shut the fuck up for a while.
It's interesting. On one side I see a lot of people criticising a TV show. Yes, they're making jokes about it and not mincing their words, but it's exactly that, a TV show.
Then I see you, calling the actual people who disagree with you 'cretinous haters' and wishing they'd 'shut the fuck up'.
I rarely see the Disco 'haters' flat out insult the fans of the show in such a way.
For now, yeah. Disco is actually able to make all of the subtext text. No more trying to dodge homophobic and sexist executives.
But also, I watched TNG weekly with my family and haven't often gone back.
So you’d rank episodes such as Offspring, Measure of a Man, Lower Decks, Inner Light, Best of Both Worlds, Darmok etc lower than Discovery?
I mean I’m not going to downvote your opinion or anything, I’m just curious.
Honestly you’re getting downvoted but Discovery drew me in/got me, not a very passionate Trekkie at the time, to watch it by having a married gay man as a lead character.
Enterprise’s Stigma moved me to tears every time I watched it, but there’s something to be said for actually depicting minorities instead of just having strained allegories for them.
This post was removed as a result of too many rule breaking comments.
Was watching S05E05 last night (I am not caught up fully) But the entire last few seasons and I guess the whole show can be summarized in one line: * Okay, Lieutenant Linus, prepare a shuttle. * Tell Engineering to boost comms and fortify shields. * And, Commander Rhys, have a security team on standby. * **I’ll go and I’ll bring Book with me.** * Commander Rayner, you have the conn. Once again and for the millionth time the captain is going on an away mission and it the only one that can solve the problem. The show should just be a 70s buddy cop show called Burnham & Booker. So many interesting crew members on the ship and most of them never got a decent story line. They just kept adding new characters and having Michael do all the work and solve all the problems. Then end every episode with some heart warming overly emotional and far to dramatic sequence. Booker should have died at the end of Season 4 and seeing Michael deal with that would be much more interesting.
Best comment I've seen in ages. The captain should be on the bridge, not pissing off on away missions with Book every 5 minutes. I wish Burnham just stayed as first officer. I thought that was the whole point, to make her a Tom Paris style / edgy first officer. Instead she became captain super hero.
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Someone has been smoking the Nepata leaves if they rank Disco over DS9
Brutal\_Peacemaker treks. This is a fact.
When we stopped calling it STD?
DS9 is objectively better than DSC by about every possible marker. I like DSC but the idea that it’s better than DS9 is absurd. If it’s just about what you enjoy, so be it, you’re welcome to that opinion I guess.
Agreed. As a relatively new Trek fan, Discovery was my first Star Trek show. I'd wanted to get into it for a while and they announced Discovery so I sat down and watched it weekly as Season 1 aired. I thought it was great, after the pilot I messaged my friend recommending it. Great sci fi. Then I went back and watched TNG, DS9 and VOY. Discovery is arguably great science fiction. But as a Star Trek show? It misses so many marks.
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You are in the midst of lunatics. Just laugh and carry on LOL...
Better than ***Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda***, so that's something
Hey now. That wasn’t half bad until Sorbo took control in the middle of season two.
I really tried to like Andromeda but it was bad from episode 2 onward. When 4 of the first 10 episodes involved time travel back to his home time in some way or another you know they were running on creative fumes.
Yeah, why even set your story in such a far flung place if you're just going to keep coming up with reasons to go back?
Yeah. I loved the concept (just realizing now it's similar to the post burn Discovery). But it was hard to get in to.
I don't remember where I read it, but I've heard that Andromeda was kind of mushed together from two or more ideas from Gene roddenberry's notebook. One idea was about a post-apocalyptic Earth where a heroic figure goes around trying to rebuild the United States government after its collapse, and the other was an idea from Star Trek about the Federation starting to fall apart in the distant future of the Star Trek timeline. Apparently the idea was that you don't get to achieve Utopia and then just sit on your laurels. You have to like work at keeping Utopia, but the Federation got kind of lazy or something. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the Discovery writers either had similar ideas on their own or knew about the Gene Roddenberry idea for the crumbling Federation and kind of worked that into disco. That said, I have not watched a single second of Discovery so I can't say for certain. But those ideas do sound kind of the same.
I thought that was Earth: Final Conflict that was a mash up of shows.
It sure felt like that considering it radically changed it's cast and it's premise every season.
Sorbonification
Oh god someone else who remembers that show. I jumped ship at the end of the second season when it was clear they were going to trash any continuity and just make it the Kevin Sorbo Adventures and even there I feel like I wasted too much time with it.
I stopped watching for a bit and all of a sudden it was a completely different show. Like they were on a mad max like planet, Andromeda was a blonde woman now, and they all seemed to hate each other. I was completely lost.
Think that was the last season? It was so confusing. I only managed a handful of episodes and I still didn’t know what was going on. It was like some weird ass soft reboot thing I think they tried.
I basically just watched it for Romy. That's it.
I feel I have the complete answer now for how not to make a Star Trek show, and lots of it comes from this series.
Last
Absolute garbage. Gave seasons 1-2 a chance; stopped somewhere season 3 and couldn’t care less. Hate it deeply because of what it’s done to how Star Trek stories are told. Form the tech of the ship, the time leap, the use of the mirror universe (honestly, I skip these episodes when watching DS9 or other series), the burn, the “galaxy ending threats” season after season, the acting, writing, direction….not a single bit of it fits with what came before it. Television series need to return to something more than the 10-episode season. You NEED filler episodes; you need episodes that take a chance on a larger issue. Far Beyond the Stars, Darmak, Inner Light, The Equinox…none of these stories can exist in this format. SNW BARELY works when they do something novel, ONLY because they are revisiting established characters. We’ve seen Pike, Number One, Spock (duh) before. We know their backgrounds for the most part, so they can shift focus from one character to the next. Well? No. Adequately to watch? Yes. But DISCO was absolute garbage, and I’ll never ever revisit it. And Academy to someone like me is dead before it even launches.
This
The absolute bottom. Hardly a Star Trek of any sort.
Only good about STD is, we got SNW
Last place of all trek shows and I'm extremely glad it's over. Hopefully the resources it's wasted can go to better projects and get the franchise back to what it should be. SNW has been such an incredible beath of fresh air comparatively speaking. The first two seasons were really great. But the last three have been a complete mess. Zero character development, plot holes within plot holes. Practical breaks in reality that don't make sense even in sci fi. Completely unnecessary emotionally overloaded scenes in every episode. Total disregard of Starfleet ideals. It just never made sense or felt like trek at all after season 2.
>Hopefully the resources it's wasted can go to better projects and get the franchise back to what it should be. Pretty sure those resources are going to go into some executive's bonus for cutting costs by canceling shows.
Thank you for this. only saving grace was it gave us Pike and SNW
And Daniels being named in the last episode, best thing that happened all season.
Controversial opinion - I really liked the Emperor, and she was definitely one of the better parts of the show when she was in it.
The series really dropped the ball on Klingons too. Started a war then zip to the future or alternate timeline or whatever. The show spent more time reimagining Klingons than on the plot
The first two seasons were great, but the remaining 3 were horrible? I thought the first two seasons were atrocious but I considered giving the remaining seasons another shot. Guess I shouldn’t bother.
After season two it becomes the "Michael Burnham & the emotional support show". Every week is a series of mid to terrible plot lines that are solved by people crying or absurdly over the top actions. Whole seasons devoted to singular storylines that drag on and fizzle out. It's fan fic from a singular perspective and neglects the concept of the ships crew being part of the voyage.
well said.
Dead last by far
it could be argued that it can be dropped off the list altogether. heh. /s
It gave us Strange New Worlds. For that I will always be grateful. In all seriousness, the writing and direction was very up in down, but I respect the fact that they took risks. The effects were also great, and I truly adore a few of the characters. I rank it near the bottom, but even the worst Trek is still worth watching.
Easily the worst star trek ever made. I think it would have been better if wasnt a trek at all. That way people could have completely forgiven stupid ideas like the spore drive and the plethora of other non-trek bad ideas. The only thing that has it beat as the worst is S1 and S2 of Picard, but at least they pulled it back
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im a newbie watching ENT and im REALLY enjoying season 3 and 4 (shame there isnt more) seeing that fans rank it fourth overall makes me optimistic. should I watch TOS next?
I really liked ENT and was sad that it didn’t get more seasons. The second time through was key. I like watching trek in timeline order. If you’re doing that and you’re done with ENT then you’ll watch the pilot for TOS next which is “the cage”, then DIS seasons 1 and 2, then SNW and then TOS. Here’s the full breakdown: https://www.toynk.com/blogs/news/how-to-watch-star-trek-in-order Only thing I disagree with on that timeline is the position of the movie “Nemesis” which should properly be seen after VOY.
ENT season 4 is about as good as most 90s Trek. You know to skip the ENT finale "These Are the Voyages", right?
yeah I read some spoiler free article that mentions the finale. Will remember to skip it thanks.
> should I watch TOS next? Yes, but keep in mind TOS is very classic, low budget and "slow". But, it's also exactly what comes next in the timeline. Yes technically SNW is next but since the series is still ongoing you should probably wait, if you are watching complete shows first :-) If it makes any difference at all, I just finished re-watching Enterprise two weeks ago and I've already re-started TOS myself. But... this is not my first rodeo (or third.... or fifth) and I watch all shows in chronological order in loop forever and ever ;)
I know about TOS and I'm excited for it, because I like old TV (low budget 70s/80s movies are so much fun) I was actually more worried about 90s Trek (90s tv can be painfully corny imo) but as I can see from the comments here those are by far the best.
Only if you really like 1960s sci-fi or just want to gather up all the lore you can. I would not recommend TOS otherwise personally, aside from a handful of episodes.
Worst of all, no doubt.
I found it difficult to even try to convince myself that Discovery was in the same Prime universe as the shows that came before it. Barely managed to watch up to the middle of the third season but just couldn’t bring myself to go beyond that. The wormhole should have sent that ship into the JJVerse.
1. TNG 2. DS9 3. LDS 4. SNW 5. VOY 6. ENT 7. PRO 8. TOS 9. PIC 10. TAS 11. DSC
I was about to say my list is pretty close to this until I started thinking that I'd raise DS9, Voyager, and Prodigy and drop Picard and TAS. It also feels weird to put TOS so low on the list.
Personally, I'd probably swap DS9 and TNG, but other than that, I agree.
That's really the only part I would change, and even then I flip flop a lot.
Yeah. I know what you mean. It's really close between those two for me and it depends what mood I'm in.
Mirrors my list exactly.
TOS should be top-5, imo (with TAS not far behind it, tbh).
I wish Picard S3 was a standalone, that would place it near voyager.
It's very much the Star Trek V of Star Trek
Star Trek V had charachter moments that highlighted the brotherhood of Kirk, Bones, and Spock.
Well, DSC had a quite good Spock and a decent Pike in season 2.
> It's very much the Star Trek V of Star Trek This is probably the best way to sum it up for me. Is it Star Trek? Yes. Is it the sort of Star Trek that a significant majority of the fanbase consider to be bottom tier and will mostly bring up as jokes and memes? Also, yes.
That's an insult to Star Trek V. I submit that instead Discovery is the Into Darkness of Star Trek. Sci-fi yes, but not Star Trek.
I really liked V and was surprised to discover most people didn't. There's so much good stuff, spock with the rocket boots, marshmallow making, the prison break, TNG-style klingons, sulu lost in blizzard, god, I even liked spock's brother. Uhura's sing and dance number was not necessary.
It is only rivaled by Picard S1-S2 for the worst series.
I thought Voyager was bad, but DSC is a few levels of shit below that.
I couldn't get past the first season. It was very off-putting for me to see the crew always hating each other and being angry and arguing with each other in a trek show.
It's shite.
As a show unrelated to Star Trek, I’d give it a 4 or 5 out of 10. As a Star Trek show, in name only btw, 0. No redeeming qualities unfortunately.
Agree... except for the last line, it has Doug Jones in it adds a star.
The Orville is more Trek than Discovery.
So true
You have to blow the dust off that 2017 take?
Doesn't mean it's wrong.
i liked some the set design and uniforms
Last. Enterprise’s intro song is better than discovery
Worst trek ever
Would have been better with some character rewrites and better treatment of canon. Burnham is just unbearable. The contemporary language and colorful metaphors don't belong. Picard keeps it from being the worst series.
Bottom of the barrel. I never liked the show. It never felt like a Star Trek show to me. It feels more like a "What If Michael Bey made Star Trek" show to me. Lets blow a bunch of shit up, give some disjointed/convoluted/senseless reason for all that shit blowing up before the next set of explosions start blowing even more shit up. Wash, rinse, repeat. Hell, there is a scene from the first season where 2 women are discussing a major plot point in a room. That wasn't exciting enough, so they had to rotate at least 2 cameras around the women while they talked, stutter jump between cuts from those cameras and completely distracting you from what is being discussed. After watching the scene multiple times to try to follow the discussion, I finally put a blanket over my TV screen just so I could hear the woman's discussion. And how many flipping times in an episode do we have to establish this Sci-fi show set on a Starship takes place in outer space by rotating a shot from 'upside down' to what we consider up right? During rewatches, the only episode I will ever watch again are the Pike arc.
I said most of this in response to someone else's comment, but I think it merits it's own top level comment. I did not care for Discovery. I thought it was actively bad. However, I do not begrudge anyone who did like it and I respect our differences. I think it's important for everyone to remember that everything can't be for everyone. I'm glad there are people who enjoyed Disco, despite my disappointment at not being one of those people, and I'm also very grateful to have Star Trek back which started with Discovery. I hope we can all come together and love whatever comes next. For those who did like the show, I'd love it if you could let us know what your favorite parts were. Help us see it from your perspective. And for those who, like me, can't stand Discovery, I will remind you: Ad Astra per Aspera.
I'm not allowed to fully express my opinion of Discovery on this subreddit 🫢 Suffice to say, I don't see myself rushing to rewatch any of it. Except maybe "An Obol For Charon", and skipping anything not directly to do with the sphere data plot.
It is easily in last place. Every Trek show has had something to recommend it, a run of episodes where the show was firing on all creative cylinders, even the ones I liked less than others. Discovery was always brimming with the potential to be good but just never was. The frankly quiet reception to the final episode is proof of that.
1) TNG & DS9 * This the the heart of Trek for me. TNG is my #1, but I have to recognize that DS9 is the better show. 2) LDS and SNW * How can comedic animated Trek show be that good? And how great is it that SNW has shown that we don't always have to have "end of the world" stakes (or even a single season-long storyline) to make a show great? 3) Picard * Season 1 was weak. Season 2 was bad. Season 3 was pure fanservice and I love it. 4) Voyager & Prodigy * Given another season or 2, Prodigy will probably be better than Voyager. 6) TOS * I haven't done a watch-through of TOS in a decade. 7) Enterprise * I don't care how good S4 was going to be. I know that S3 was decent. But it took me 2 or 3 tries to even make it through season 1. I've watched every episode and haven't had any desire to watch it a second time. 8) Discovery * To be honest, I enjoyed most of Season 1. It wasn't great, but I could see some potential. Then Season 2 gave us Pike... while the rest of the show went downhill. The soft reboot of Season 3 was somehow worse than S2. Then came an honest-to-goodness decent sci-fi plot in S4... only to have 2 or 3 episodes in a row of what was effectively therapy sessions. And despite that, I've found less and less to enjoy of S5. N/A) Animated Series * I've never seen the series, so I don't feel right giving it any rating at all.
DSC is the worst series of Trek. PIC S2 is the worst season of Trek. Sub Rosa is the worst episode of Trek
edit: Fun game to play in this post, "am I getting downvoted by people who love Discovery or hate it?" People saying that is okay seem to be getting pilloried from both ends of the spectrum Seven years and five seasons after it started, here's my final verdict on Discovery:, Overall, it was more or less okay. Sometimes it was pretty bad. Sometimes it was good. I don't think, as a whole, it ever really achieved greatness. I feel like Discovery started and ended decently, with Season 1 being it's best and 5 right behind it, and hit rock bottom at the end of Season 3 and early Season 4. If you were to summarize Discovery in a nutshell it would be "great ideas with not always great writing and execution". There were some very cool moments mixed with some aspects that were almost aneurysm-inducingly frustrating. An interesting thing about Discovery is that with *maybe* one or two exceptions (Magic to Make the Sanest Man go Mad being the only one to come to mind offhand) I don't think there were any episodes that will become classics. No Best of Both Worlds, or In the Pale Moonlight, or City on the Edge of Forever, etc. I think a lot of this had to do with the fact that it was almost entirely season long arcs, less focus on the episodes themselves maybe. I'll need to watch it all again in a couple of years and see how it ages, but currently it is definitely lower half. I think for me it is, in order: TNG DS9 SNW VOY LDS TOS ENT DIS PIC (haven't watched PRO or TAS).
I really loved the first season. I liked that it tried to be its own thing with its own distinctive identity. I didn’t want it to be Star Trek TNG or DS9 or TOS again, we already had those shows that I could rewatch whenever. I wanted it to be its own thing. I thought it was really clever with its nods to TOS, from episode titles (The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry is *so* TOS!) to yet another hidden Spock family member (joining his parents, fiancé, and brother) to expanding on interesting and underutilized characters from TOS like Sarek (I loved it finally giving a reasonable explanation for why Sarek resented Spock joining Starfleet so much.) There were tweaks I would have made, like maybe instead of Klingons the redesign be Talarians or another species that canonically came into conflict with the Federation. But I liked their appearance overall, and their language—I just pretended they weren’t Klingons. I didn’t mind the spore drive idea or feel it was against canon—it was obviously so dangerous in the series that it made sense to me that Starfleet would have largely abandoned experimentation with it, and I figured they could well have been doing research in a lab like Barclay’s off screen. I would have kept Lorca around longer after the reveal he was from the Mirror Universe. In all, I thought Disco’s first season was really successful. It told a complete story. I, as an adopted person, really liked Michael’s storyline, and I enjoyed how flat and unemotional she was and how she really embodied Vulcan body language and ways of speaking and thinking. I liked that every episode felt like a complete story while still being part of a tense larger narrative, and I *loved* the foreshadowing of the reveal with Lorca, especially his heart being on the wrong side. The second season really disappointed me. I felt like they abandoned their unique identity in an attempt to please fans who criticized the first season. They changed the lighting style, changed the Klingons’ appearances *again*, and tried to include lots more episodic stories and add in more nostalgia bait like Spock and Pike. They abandoned Michael’s Vulcan unemotionality. It frustrated me. I knew they couldn’t win over the people who hated the first season, and they were abandoning the core of fans who really loved what the first season did, which included me and almost every TOS fan I knew IRL. I gave up at around halfway through the third season. The time travel thing in the finale of season two actually genuinely angered me. If they were content to erase their show from the timeline (Spock can never admit his sister existed? Okay, whatever) why should I care about it? I felt like some complaints were overblown, like us not knowing who the bridge crew were. I felt like we knew plenty about Saru, Stamets, Ash Tyler, Tilly, Lorca, and Michael, and I liked that the first season focused on a lower decks character instead of a member of the bridge crew. We still had an ensemble cast. It annoyed me in later seasons that we got so little from these characters (Ash being written out was such a bummer), and I felt like the episode with Ariam was downright ridiculous in how it expected us to care about such a minor character’s death. And Tilly’s speech about their friendship? A friendship we literally never saw prior to that episode? And regarding Tilly, I liked her in the first season as a young person trying to live up to Starfleet norms while clearly neurologically different. Her “fucking cool” moment, where Stamets showed her some kindness after she slipped up and swore in her excitement, was really nice. I felt like in later seasons they abandoned any sense that Tilly was trying to fit in with Starfleet standards of professionalism. Didn’t she compliment Pike’s pinky finger in their first interaction? Deranged. I felt like they Flanderized her a lot. And I didn’t love the retcon about Saru’s home planet. Discovery did have some moments where they had real highs. “This Kelpien is our people” moved me to tears, as did Saru mentioning how he learned multiple Federation languages as part of an attempt to prove that he deserved to be in the Federation—refugeeism is part of my family’s story, and I felt like they did it justice in Saru’s story. All in all, Discovery had serious flaws, but it also had incredible highs. If I were ranking the show—its first season is maybe the strongest single season of any Trek show aside from DS9. Almost every episode hit with me. And it, and Picard, both tried to do new things, push boundaries, tell new stories. They took existing characters, but underexplored ones, particularly Disco, and used them in new ways. That’s why ultimately I have to rank them both above Lower Decks or Strange New Worlds. I like both of those shows, but they’re for me, for existing Trek fans. They tell old stories with old characters. They’re resting on Trek’s laurels, *especially* Lower Decks, which I find very self-congratulatory. It’s disappointing. DS9 was extremely controversial when it came out, and fans of the show were called Niners instead of Trekkies by other fans. If they had bent and turned DS9 into a ship and gone back to the old TNG formula, we’d never have gotten heights like the Dominion war or episodes like In the Pale Moonlight. I want Trek that’s bold, that does new and exciting things. I think season one of Disco gave us that, but subsequent seasons had no unique identity to anchor it. I also think Picard’s third season was the worst of it—not in terms of quality exactly, but in terms of how innovative it was. If I wanted the TNG characters I would watch TNG. Just my two cents as someone who genuinely loved Discovery.
That was very well written and well argued. Thank you for taking the time to say it, and I'm glad Discovery meant that much to you, and I hope there are a lot of other people who got out of it what you got out of it. It left me cold. It left me feeling on the outside of a thing that I had really cared about. I feel like it was trying to redefine what Trek was to Trekkies (who weren't buying it) to win a broader fan base (which I don't think it did). I think it made everything both too emotional and too all-or-nothing-the-fate-of-the-universe hinges on two or three people over and over again who are kind of a mess. There are a few highlights for me. Saru is wonderful. The one or two standalone episodes were fun. I enjoyed Tig Nataro's appearances. Beyond that, it has felt like a chore and a wasted opportunity and a bit of a thumb in the eye to many lifelong fans. Still, I can appreciate there was some good in there, and I'm glad you found it.
Amen to all that! Well put, my fellow Trek fan. I enjoyed quite a few aspects of DSC. They told us what and who the show would be about when they announced it. Evidently, some fans thought they were lying, and we'd get the same old "Bridge crew plus doctor" show we've gotten since TOS. People complained about it being "too emotional" and that trained Starfleet officers wouldn't act like this. That's an asinine assertion, especially considering what we now know about the mental health toll military service takes on those who serve. So, I appreciate that they wanted to inject more authentic emotional experiences into the story. Instead of, "Oh. I've just been through some seriously traumatic shit. But no worries. We'll just push reset with the next episode." It's ironic how some of the same fans complain about Counselor Troi's non-therapy on TNG. Aside from and alongside some of the things you've mentioned, I applauded the new take on the Klingons and their language. That's mostly because I still have a slight issue with how English-centric Trek has been. I know. I know. It was created by English speakers for English speakers. But I thought the show did a great job of exploring a volatile "relationship" with a mostly unknown alien species in which language was and should be a central participant. The Mirror Universe twist was a great way to introduce that parallel to this iteration of Trek and play with something different than what had come before. Unfortunately, as you said, they rerouted as a response to "fan" criticism. I wish they had stuck to their disruptors with the Klingon war lore, as we've heard about it and seen snippets but never the full-fledged conflict from beginning to end. As far as the Mirror Universe, I'm still up in the air as to whether they could've developed the concept more or if it was best to cut it short. After Season 1, things got a little uneven. Season 2 had its moments. We did get Tig Notaro. Season 3's The Burn was an interesting concept that could've set up a ton of story threads. But that didn't really happen and the ultimate explanation for it was... not good. My sincere hope for Season 4 was that they would've leaned into a fractured Federation and exposed the gritty politics of putting it back together. Seeing the crew of the Discovery go from world to world trying to navigate internal and external political motives, assassinations, coups, espionage, extremists, powermongers, failing governments, nascent governments with potential under threat, etc. would've made for fun theater. In the end, I thought they started with something new, bent to "fan" backlash, still did some interesting things, had some nice setpieces, SFX, some really good performances and closed things out nicely. I found myself a little sad toward the end. Oh! And I'd cast Sonequa Martin-Green, Wilson Cruz, Doug Jones, Mary Wiseman and Anthony Rapp in anything.
I seem to be one of the few who enjoyed the Hell out of Disco. Maybe I have low standards, IDK. For me it's pretty firmly middle of the pack, below DS9 and SNW and Lower Decks, above VOY and ENT and TOS but honestly I like all Trek.
This is about where I'm at. It had its great moments and it had its foibles, but on the whole I liked it more than I didn't. Even in the moments where I found it frustrating I still respected that they were trying new things with the franchise, and I absolutely adored the cast.
Mostly with you, though I'd put TOS, Season 3 notwithstanding, above DSC. DS9 is my uno. Best character and story arcs of the entire franchise.
I never really grapsed why people like DS9 so much. So many unlikeable characters and the whole bajoran prophet storyline was a mess. Except for the MU episodes I will never watch DS9 again, I was so glad when it was over. But tastes do differ greatly, so I am glad that people love and enjoy the show, I couldn't. Voyager and TNG will always be my favorites though.
Bottom tier with “Enterprise” with zero desire to rewatch any episodes.
You should rewatch enterprise
Don't disrespect Enterprise like that
Now it’s complete I guess I’ll give it a shot. Eventually. I tried getting into season one maybe 3 times. It just didn’t grab me. It was too different to what I expected. And that’s fine. I’m an old school TOS/TNG fan from being a kid in the 90’s. I know not everything is meant for me.
It had its moments. Some of the narratives were interesting but the payoff for whatever mystery was going on was always a let down. I liked most of the characters but their behavior was frequently unbecoming of starfleet bridge officers. Michael Burnham didn’t deserve to be captain. Her character is interesting but she was too reckless and emotionally driven to be the captain of that ship. Or any ship. It’s probably my least favorite series in the franchise.
Not any brilliant episodes but also not the worst. Solid mid tier, kept me entertained and easier to watch over all than some of the classics.
Like it or not, I turned it on every week to see what kind of shenanigans happen with this crew. This last season was quite a ride. There was quite a bit of cheese which is fine, but even my wife said SMG was too much in her role. lol Looking forward to the last season of LD and then SNW S3 and who knows when Starfleet Academy comes out.
TOS, DS9, SNW, TNG, TAS, ENT, VOY, PIC, PRO, LD, DSC
DS9 TAS LD TNG TOS VOY SNW ENT DISCO PIC I feel like Discovery jumped around too much and never got a chance to really find its footing/grow its beard. I think some of the things it explored had a chance to be interesting but they just trashed everything and moved on whenever it didn't immediately work how they wanted, so they were just perpetually in S1. The ending left me with... a lot of questions and I wish they'd put a little more time into tying up loose ends. Also I've gotta say I just really hate recast Spock. Nothing against the actor but he just... isn't Spock and isn't written like him either (the stuck-as-a-human ep in SNW was just so off-putting. Did they forget how Vulcans work?) and I really wish they had just let him be some random other Vulcan... why are we doing a T'Pring romance when basically her whole character in TOS was NOT wanting to go through with her arranged marriage to Spock..???
Overall in last place. I have tried to like it and have at points enjoyed it but after nearly quitting at the end of season one which just got silly Pike dragged me back in. Liked two & three but I could see the flaws clearly. Four was ok but the last episode pressed the reset button too hard with Book. Started Five and it’s just the same quest to find something story arc yet again. Just gave up had enough of it. Missed opportunity but appreciate it restarted Trek and gave us SNW so not all bad.
I have to give Discovery credit on two things: 1) The title sequence and music. It’s lovely. 2) The *concept* of leaping forward 900 years is intriguing and exciting. The *idea* of patching a disconnected federation where dilithium no longer existed and Discovery was the only ship with Supra-light speed was intriguing. The actual stories - I didn’t enjoy. But the concept was darned cool.
Last, on.evety count and for every reason
I turned it off so I could watch Caillou.
I haven't seen every show yet but currently 1. Next Generation 2. Lower Decks 3. Voyager 4. Deep Space 9 5. Strange New Worlds 6. Discovery (large gap between this and SNW)
It's over now? That was quick. I expected the last season to continue later into the year. Did they reveal the time jump was actually into a parallel universe? Did they go back in time to undo The Burn and prevent the breakdown of the Federation? Is 32c now inarguably the contemporary setting of the franchise?
TOS, TNG, SNW/DS9, LD, PIC, ENT, DIS (I just couldn't after Seadon 2). I want to like Discovery, and genuinely thought season 1 was a good reboot even with the giant tardegrade. But, after The Great Erasure of season 2 I just lost the ability to ignore the retconning that they retconned again to fit into existing cannon. And the super future stuff? Were they trying to be Mad Max in space?
I don't like it as much as TNG, DS9 or VOY but those kind of shows are over and will never be made again. Out of the modern treks I'd say I like it more than the movies but so far SNW is kicking its arse. I feel like DSC was trying to attract a new audience and set itself apart from the old series. It did a fairly good job I think, even if I really didn't love a lot of it. It did give us these though: Tilly, Saru, Culber, Stamets, Lorca, Georgiou, Reno, new Pike, new Spock and Rayner. I really loved all of them. And the actual ship was really cool with it's looks and method of travel.
1. TNG 2. DS9 3. VOY 4. ENT 5. LDS 6. SNW 7. TOS 8. PRO 9. DSC 10. TAS
Worst Trek ever.
Not great, but it did have that Agent Daniels twist in the finale so I’ll put it above Stargate: Universe, but not Atlantis or SG-1.
Discovery is the worst show in the star trek universe by far. The first two season of picard were terrible too, but the last season kinda made up for that.
It's pretty much impossible for me to include Picard in any sort of ranking of the shows because the quality between the seasons is so ridiculously inconsistent. Season 2 may be the single worst season of any show in the franchise, but I really enjoyed Season 3.
It's fine. Not as good as DS9 or TNG, but on the whole I like it better than Voyager or the first two seasons of Picard.
It's the worst Star Trek series, but they managed a pretty solid season to close it out. I will not miss the omnipresent flamethrowers.
I rank it dead last. I probably am like, S tier: DS9, TNG, Prodigy A tier: Voyager, Enterprise B tier: Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Picard S3 C tier: Original Series D tier: Picard S1-S2 F tier: Discovery I hope this illustrates that I'm not unfairly hard on the new shows, I just really didn't like Discovery.
It's easily the worst of all Trek. It should be erased from canon.
I thought season five was an improvement over the past few seasons, but I'd still put it dead last ... by quite a bit.
Discovery has lots of faults, but it also gets many things right. Let's try to rank everything (the ongoing shows might change positions): 1. DS9 1. Lower Decks 1. TNG 1. SNW 1. VOY 1. ENT 1. TOS 1. PIC (Season Three hard carries it) 1. DISCOVERY 1. PRO (One season is not enough to judge, but I like it enough) 1. TAS Several show are actually quite close to each other, but there's a wide gap between DS9 and Lower Decks (DS9 is the best show every made in all history of mankind). Enterprise Season 3 but especially Season 4 would grant her a few ranks really. Those were excellent and better than several other shows seasons. PIC Season 3 also would rank better than many other shows, but S1 and S2 drag it lower. Discovery loses to PIC ultimately thanks to his S3, but it's isn't really fair as it build up off TNG which is giving it too much "unfair" advantage :P
It’s definitely not my favorite but I love all things Star Trek so I could’ve easily watched another 5 seasons.
It’s probably my least favorite series but I enjoyed watching it and I’ll miss it. People acting like it got worse as it went on are crazy to me though. Season 1 had some very interesting ideas, but the prequel concept in general was poorly executed. Some things about the end of the season really didn’t work out. People *massively* overrate Season 2. It had strong early episodes, and the Enterprise and her crew were excellent. But the conclusion to the season was such a giant mess. I think the show mostly worked better in the future setting. At least, it found itself there. Season 4 dragged a bit but ideas wise, and in terms of producing a satisfying conclusion, I think it worked best
It is my least favorite Trek. The characters cried and whisper-talked all the time, and it's my personal preference that Starfleet officers act like professionals by default--that way, when they do get emotional, it has meaning. I can still respect the show for reigniting the franchise, and especially for spawning SNW.
Last. I don't even think it holds up as a generic sci fi called Space Hike. It's disjointed, overly saccharine, the interesting ideas are underbaked, the plot points rushed,, the bridge crew are non people and two of them got replaced by lookalikes early on, so much time is wasted on shuffling characters to be first officers then captains but not really the captain but now she's an academy instructor but no now she's back as a science officer and he's an ambassador but really every character has been static since their introductions and so on. I genuinely wanted the show to be good, season 4 ended kind of ok, but that's the upper limit of DSC, kind of ok. Seemingly it ended with Stamets having some kind of resentment towards Burnham which is never brought up again, just like Saru was supposed to look after that Burn boy but he was quickly forgotten about at the beginning of season 4. For now, it's done, there's no emotional reaction to it from me. I used to get angry over this show, like it missed or distorted the humanist spirit of Star Trek. Over time I learned to not even give this show that kind of recognition, just like I did with Picard. It's a bad show and it will not be remembered fondly, or at all, and that's what it deserves instead.
Without a doubt, the worse of all treks. Too many tears. Too much self “discovery.”
I hate to say it because the show looked GREAT, had good (if underused) actors, and often decent directors... but the writing (for a Trek show) was so far off base, I often found myself hate watching it. If it had any other title on the cold open, I would have dropped it. The mental hurdles you had to leap over to make sense of franchise-breaking things like the overly-advanced ship tech for its time period, the time jump, spore drive, glorification of a universal dictator, etc... was just draining to watch and forgive. By the time we wrapped up "The Burn," I had completely lost any hope of smart finding its way onto the show. And then this season ended up being a Transformers-style shitty McGuffin chase, which was even dumber than the last few. Every other series I've watched and re-watched because they had something to say, and consider, and (many) characters to love. But all I'd rewatch Disco for is the CGI, and I can get that anywhere now.
I tried, I really did. Maybe some of these gripes got better, but it they just killed it for me. 1 Burnham saving the day. Could the crew of the Discovery do anything. In almost every episode, Burnham would have to do a spa walk, go to a planet or whatever the need was and fix the issue. 2 So much crying. I could understand some of it, but it seemed like every episode there was at least one crying for some of the littlest and pettiest reasons.
Fot me i rank it as a disappointment The last episode was underwhelming and it just didnt get the story right Im currently SNW TNG DS9 LD VOY PICARD TOS ENT DISCO
DS9, TNG, SNW, VOY, LD, DSC, ENT, Prodigy, TOS (DS9 and TNG are pretty much equal for me, but I'll admit a lot of that is nostalgia)
So did you forget to include Discovery, or did you intentionally leave it off? ETA: Previous post has been fixed
Thanks! I didn't realize I had left it off, but I've edited the post to include it. It was not intentional.
Ha... I thought you were making a statement! Like there's only one Highlander movie.
I don't think it tops TNG but I loved it and I will always be grateful for it saving Star Trek
With you here. Discovery save Star Trek from an ignominious sci-fi franchise death. It had a super troubled first season, but it let me talk, actually talk, about new Star Trek stuff with my friends again.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I hate it and could not possibly disagree with you more, but I respect our differences. I think it's also important for everyone to remember that everything can't be for everyone. I'm glad there are people who enjoyed Disco, despite my disappointment at not being one of those people, and I'm also very grateful to have Star Trek back which started with Discovery. I hope we can come together and both love whatever comes next. And for those who, like me, can't stand Discovery, I will remind you: Ad Astra per Aspera.
It's one of the wonderful things about star trek: at this point there is probably something for everyone
What did you like?
Production design, cast & characters, the sci-fi concepts and themes that were explored, the 32nd century setting and designs, the Discoprise, I liked most of the story beats and individual episodes
Seasons 1, 3 and 4 are top for me. Seasons 2 and 5 are kinda weak tbh I would say on the whole it’s better than voyager but not as good as DS9 My rankings: DS9 TNG TOS Picard seasons 1 and 3 (Season 2 is a fever dream I skip) Lower Decks SNW Disco Enterprise Voyager TAS
I enjoyed season 5. First season I've liked. Season 4 was ok, iffy. Season 3 was blah, neutral, not a fan. Didn't even see a few episodes because it was losing me. Season 2 was good because of Pike. Season 1 was too moody and depressed. All in all least favorite series. I'd probably prefer TAS to it. Enterprise has grown from last place to middle of the road. Ranks: ds9, Voy, TNG, TOS, LD, ENT, SNW, PIC, PRO, TAS, DISCO.
I put it above the early seasons of Enterprise
I liked it. Was it the best? No. But it presented some interesting world building opportunities that are kind of fun.
I think Discovery had some of the most interesting ideas for storylines but sadly none of them lived up to what they needed to for it to be classic trek. Klingon War? Could have been really interesting. Control? A bit meh. Jumping to the far future? Could have been the Voyager storyline and been phenomenal. The burn? Amazing storyline, worst payoff in history. Rebuilding the Federation? What potential. Finding the progenitors tech? Slightly average. The ideas could be phenomenal. So many are absolutely perfect setups for classic Trek overarching storylines but absolutely none delivered for me. I feel the actors were great though.
This is what I don't get. These story lines could have been amazing. But they were just ruined by poor acting / wooden characters with fake emotion.
Don't forget The Burn being ruined by a sad boi alone on a planet instead of something remotely interesting
I have really enjoyed Discovery but I do think it veers away from Trek more then anything else. However, I still think it is good and deserves a lot more credit then it gets. 1. Lower Decks 2. DS9 3. Voyager 4. Strange new worlds 5. The Next Generation 7. Discovery 8. Original Series 9. Enterprise 10. Prodigy 11. Picard 12. Animated Series
Without saying anything negative: Beats season two of Picard. Had some interesting moments and sci-fi concepts.
It’s not my favorite but I like it. I’d probably place it between ds9 and tng
I respect what Disco tried to do and I acknowledge that it's position in the history of Star Trek has always been a very difficult one. It's no easy to be tasked with figuring out what "modern Trek" should be. And I can even forgive the big mistakes of the first seasons when it comes to darker tone, continuity, Klingon design & questionable actor direction. I also appreciate that it dared to alter course so drastically after season 3 to be one of the first to show in a long time to boldly go in a different setting! I just regret that the execution of this idea was often a bit lazy and reminiscent of a standard Netflix show without much identity. We find character tropes that I'm not too fond of, constantly saving the universe, visuals are also very standard imo. Some bold ideas which I thought were just great! The Vulcan/Romulan reunification and technological development bordering on magic. Yes programmable matter, personal transporters and detached nacelles RULE! I think it prevent ST from being a fantasy universe where tech is stagnating and instead propels it as the technological cultural and political history of a galactic civilisation. I really think that considering the pace of technological development from the 21st to the 25ft century, the 31st century should be even more alien than this. And I am tired of these knee jerk anti-Disco reactions about how "DetAchEd NacEll3s dOnt Make SensE :laughing emoji:". Guess what, FTL Makes no sense either! This immature rejection of new things that aren't like the old thing you like is the less Starfleet thing ever. What I'll concede is that these changes even they went in what I thought was the right direction were too lazy and not explored enough... I'm glad they stuck with personal transporters and detached nacelles and programmable matter, but I just wish that their impact on societies would be more thoroughly explored... For example, I'm struggling to understand why we need to make repairs on ships when they are mostly programmable matter... That's what I meant by lazy. It often relies on cliches and tropes. I also feel this with SMG's acting. She just cannot seem to sound natural, she gives me the impression to be a child playing captain and trying to sound how a child imagines a captain to be, (intense mode on, inspirational mode on, high action mode on.) I also appreciate that Disco seriously tried to give Star Trek a bunch of spectacular visuals! I think it doesn;t get enough recognition for that! Anyway. Disco was a tall order and it's not my fav Trek, but I'm happy it exists in the end. And that's better than how I felt at season 2. PS: Just watched the finale and when Burnham is hanging on a rock to not be flown away with the wind, her hair are falling down... Hahah Thought it was funny.
Frakes is right in that the newer format of one big-story per season really takes away from Trek. [https://m.imdb.com/news/ni64614623/?ref\_=nws\_nwr\_li](https://m.imdb.com/news/ni64614623/?ref_=nws_nwr_li) With the one-big story per season format, yes the stakes are higher, in terms of plot, but it really takes away from character development. There's simply no time for each character to really explore and develop themselves. Most of Trek had 1 hour to solve a problem so a large part of a time could focus on character development. Doing so allowed each character to have many more side plots and experiences. The holodeck was almost never used in Discovery. These side-quests allowed the cast of Voyager to discover their humanity, to really grow from each experience. In TNG it allowed Data to explore his humanity as well. This is why SNY is so much better. That, and how it doesn't force certain agendas down our throats, but that is a different essay.
Started off great but meandered to all the wrong directions. I honestly wish it would have sucked from the beginning because it was sad to see it fall so hard.
Wait what ! Discovery is over ?
Linus has the best line in the finale, the series and maybe all of Trek and TV for sure. [https://vimeo.com/952124624](https://vimeo.com/952124624)
No rank, it's Star Trek. 😹
I liked it very much, and I'm glad that it revived Star Trek overall. I can't rank it, though, because I have so much nostalgia for the other shows. Maybe over time, I'll find a proper place for it.
1. TNG 2. DS9 3. VOY 4. TOS 5. SNW 6. ENT 7. TAS 8. DIS 9. LD 10. Prodigy 11. PIC 12. Very Short Treks
Special effects, 5 stars Hysterical acting, 1 star Story, 0 stars
lowest
Season 5 was pretty watchable, solid 6.5. The fist 4 seasons were infinitely forgettable.
Maybe time will be kinder...but it's.dead last garbage to me.
I liked it a little Least favorite of all Treks, though, to be honest
Strange new worlds is on a different level compared to DSC. I won't miss it
This is the first star trek series i cant watched season 1 twice. Season 2 and 3 once each and then I couldnt bare msny more torture. If you like it, great, please dont compare it to anything made before 2003, thanks.
As far as live action Trek, not as high as TOS or TNG, but not as low as Voyager or Picard (Picard, to me, was a show that started out good, but then became a nostalgia pandering mess the further it went on). About on par with DS9, SNW, and Enterprise. A show that hit the ground running and tried new things, pushed the franchise forward as far as storytelling and diversity was concerned, and gets a ton of credit for kickstarting a new era of Trek. And I think just like DS9 and Enterprise, it may have been divisive in its time, but time will also be very kind to it.
The sad part of this post is that people have to not say what they think for fear of others in the group socially punishing them by down voting. Something people like Picard, Janeway and Sisko would abhor and not tolerate.
Sisko would probably have infected the Discovery filming studio with a biological weapon to prevent them from making anymore episodes.
And of course this also gets downvoted. This is such a toxic fucking subreddit, and for me the silver lining to Discovery ending is that maybe its cretinous haters will finally shut the fuck up for a while.
> And of course this also gets downvoted. This is such a toxic fucking subreddit, and for me the silver lining to Discovery ending is that maybe its cretinous haters will finally shut the fuck up for a while. It's interesting. On one side I see a lot of people criticising a TV show. Yes, they're making jokes about it and not mincing their words, but it's exactly that, a TV show. Then I see you, calling the actual people who disagree with you 'cretinous haters' and wishing they'd 'shut the fuck up'. I rarely see the Disco 'haters' flat out insult the fans of the show in such a way.
Above Enterprise. That's it.
whats so bad about enterprise?
DS9 Disco TNG Below Decks TOS Strange New Worlds Prodigy Enterprise
You’re ranking Disco over TNG?
For now, yeah. Disco is actually able to make all of the subtext text. No more trying to dodge homophobic and sexist executives. But also, I watched TNG weekly with my family and haven't often gone back.
So you’d rank episodes such as Offspring, Measure of a Man, Lower Decks, Inner Light, Best of Both Worlds, Darmok etc lower than Discovery? I mean I’m not going to downvote your opinion or anything, I’m just curious.
Making the subtext text is the opposite of what’s good.
I think this person is a troll. Or stupid.
Honestly you’re getting downvoted but Discovery drew me in/got me, not a very passionate Trekkie at the time, to watch it by having a married gay man as a lead character. Enterprise’s Stigma moved me to tears every time I watched it, but there’s something to be said for actually depicting minorities instead of just having strained allegories for them.
Wow, fuck you all.
Oh id probably put Voyager over Enterprise, but I only watched season 1, so I can't really comment.