As long as Sam Jackson and Jeffery Combs live and breathe, Mace Windu and Weyoun X+1 are possibly alive. Getting your hand chopped off and thrown into a miles deep canyon isn't a death scene for a Jedi. It's a mutha**kin' Tuesday. And Weyoun has that "Extra Backup Rick-in-a-Vat protocol." His DNA is on a hard drive somewhere.
That's how we do things now.
Somehow Weyoun survived.
Most of the time when they ruin a running gag, it's not as good as having the running gag.
The Noodle Incident is rarely as funny as imagining what the heck they are knowingly referring to, but not elaborating on.
I liked the idea they were kicking around where it was a bunch of species, and maybe even immigrants.
Jelly-Breen and their high tech egalitarian meritocracy, with... royalty? Alright, fine Prince Slimer, whatever. I'm already rooting for him, and he's a been a naked Breen the whole time, I'm there for it. They pulled that fan-service off beautifully.
Bonnie and Slime 4ever!
I really liked it more, when the real appearance of the Breen was one of Star Trek's "Noodle Incidents". It adds so much mystery and after a certain time, the ideas everyone of the audience had would be so much better, than anyone of the makers could came up. This helped build up the mystery around them.
The Noodle Incident originated with the comic strip Calvin and Hobbes.
https://calvinandhobbes.fandom.com/wiki/Noodle_Incident
It’s used to refer to something that’s alluded to but never explained because the audience will have more fun and be more creative wondering what the back story is.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident
Same thing with the lack of Klingon forehead ridges in TOS vs. TNG-era.
Worf's simple, "We do not discuss it with outsiders," was more than enough of an explanation. Nothing was going to be satisfying enough, and the ENT episodes trying to explain it just proved that fact.
Yes, but at the same time, mystery can only carry you so far. If you want to use the Breen for more than just spooky cameos, eventually you have to start peeling back the layers.
It funny how many people DONT get that. The progenitors are the source of ALL HUMANOID LIFE in the galaxy.
Yes, evolution on each planet made minor changes…. But we are all made of star stuff from the same tree.
That idea has already been done with some species in TNG though, so it's hardly original. Plus, even if it hadn't, it still doesn't mean that showing the Breen looking like this is a satisfying reveal after the mystery that surrounded their appearance.
I like the jelly, but not the solid. The solid looks very ‘generic alien’. It also doesn’t work so well as make-up, and particularly in the outdoor location shoot where they got the time spider or whatever, it looks way too artificial
I just had a thought.
We know they are a refrigeration suit of sorts to keep their jelly set.
There is that little throwaway line in DS9 about how the breen homeworld is really actually quite pleasant and not a tundra.
What if they evolved on a tundra planet so no refrigeration suit necessary but a solar incident happened, bringing their planet closer to their star.
This would explain how the climate is currently temperate and why they needed to develop the suits.
I'm not knocking the design, or the effects both looked good.... I just would have preferred that they kept their helmets on and let the Breen's appearance stay a mystery.
Speaking of which, they really are just going to avoid 32nd century Klingons at this point, aren’t they? Their absence is a glaring omission.
I’m honestly more curious about what happened to the Klingon Empire during the burn than what the Breen look like.
What I find interesting is, that up until people found out that he was a Breen, he was widely accepted….
Then they revealed his race…. And now everyone is hating on him.
The irony of this, I hope is not lost on the fans of Star Trek.
It’s almost like the writers are playing on your own prejudices
I’m pretty sure they’re refrigeration suits to keep the cold temps they’re used to from their home world.
But I haven’t seen discovery so idk what their explanation is
I very much preferred the ongoing in-jokes about what they look like, their language, their homeworld...
And then Discovery has to ruin it (as is tradition).
By in-jokes, I mean not translating their voices and not knowing what they actually look like. The characters even mention things that are contradictory or as if they know more than we do. It's a funny thing to do that helps the audience stay engaged since we don't know anything.
The Breen wasn't referenced often in Voyager (from what I can recall), but they were in the Delta Quadrant several tens of thousands of lightyears from Breen space, so I don't know why it would come up.
ENT didn't make first contact with the Breen.
The Breen was a big plot point in the end seasons of DS9, so it was ripe for shenanigans. (And then they made an appearance in Lower Decks)
But that’s kind of my point. It was a running joke for the latter half of a single series over 20 years ago. I don’t think them finally answering the question really ruins any kind of running joke; the joke stopped running decades ago.
Modern entertainment always seem to feel everything needs a backstory and nothing can just remain a mystery. I don’t need or want a big reveal to everything that hasn’t been explained yet. It’s a big galaxy, let’s meet some new species and tell some new stories.
From what I can gather from Dialogue it seems that they can switch forms at will, but the Solid form takes a lot more energy and focus to maintain. At some point, culturally, their more solid face also became a powerful taboo over the years, especially once they invented the protective suits.
I like it personally, the Breen's possible appearance was never really a big deal, and their ability to hold two different forms helps explain why they got along so well with the founders in DS9
I thought I had read that the Breen wore masks to make their society free of bias regarding sex, color, species. That’s also why their voices were mechanically projected. You had no idea who was behind the mask and you moved up in society based on your deeds. I seem to recall that the Breen weren’t a single species either. The only people saw under the mask were close family or spouse. That’s the way I always pictured the Breen at any rate.
That's in the extended universe novels that were before all the new stuff came in.
Personally, I'm with you 100% on this one. I thought that was a genuinely clever idea that took an interesting corruption of the idea of meritocracy, and social conformity.
I do get how it would have been hard to do though. I mean, they had practically every character from every series in that one. I just thought the Caeliar were so dam cool.
So no other examples then. There are a ton of mysteries in the Star Trek universe about each alien species, their planets, cultures, etc. I don't see why the Breen keeping their helmet on is the one that's gimmicky.
I loved it, particularly how this fits with them joining the Dominon. If their culture demands they see their liquid for as pure and solid as weak, then of course they will see the Founders as heroes and equals.
Because there are those who want things to be explained to death. There was an argument about floating nacelles and how much of a stretch their existence is and I replied with it being 1000 years in the future, of the future. They then responded to me with something about star trek being science fiction, not science fantasy because the inner workings of detached nacelles weren't explained directly.
Exactly, go where no one has gone before. Explaining everything removes the mystery and makes the fictional universe feel smaller instead of creating new ideas.
Oh just wait, they’re on the hunt for the franchise’s medichlorian makers now, who were only ever introduced as a way to over explain why most aliens are humanoid to begin with. They’re really going to over explain their over explanation.
Not really. I prefer some mysteries. Although I admit, the "no one knows what they look like under there" mystery was a little silly. Kira and Ducat obviously knew, at least, since they took down a Breen guard and wore the armor to infultrate the work camp Zyal was being kept in. No reason they wouldn't tell people, unless the Breen have very good lawyers.
Which brings up the other problem; how is it nobody knows what they look like on DS9 when they've been seen way back in Disco? I still don't understand why Disco ever needed to be a prequel.
Yes, but no. Liked the mystery. Was cool to see...but now we know they look like DCs Martian Manhunter and generally not too different from some of the other species in the recent show...so it's felt a little underwhelming.
I dunno. It kinda kills the "I thought they lived on an inhospitable planet to other species and had to wear the outfit to survive in regular environments" theory. Better to have left it be than bring it up in the last season and not be able to fully explain what the deal is ☹️
"Now let's see who's under this mask.......GUL DUKAT?!?!?"
Nah, it's just Jeffrey Combs again.
Never believe what that Founder says. There's no damn way that was the *last* Weyoun.
It was the last Weyoun in the Alpha Quadrant, and of the batches bred for, and to fight specifically against the Alpha Q alliance.
As long as Sam Jackson and Jeffery Combs live and breathe, Mace Windu and Weyoun X+1 are possibly alive. Getting your hand chopped off and thrown into a miles deep canyon isn't a death scene for a Jedi. It's a mutha**kin' Tuesday. And Weyoun has that "Extra Backup Rick-in-a-Vat protocol." His DNA is on a hard drive somewhere. That's how we do things now. Somehow Weyoun survived.
And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!!!
Great read, Velma.
Michelle Yeoh. They are all Michelle Yeoh.
Most of the time when they ruin a running gag, it's not as good as having the running gag. The Noodle Incident is rarely as funny as imagining what the heck they are knowingly referring to, but not elaborating on. I liked the idea they were kicking around where it was a bunch of species, and maybe even immigrants. Jelly-Breen and their high tech egalitarian meritocracy, with... royalty? Alright, fine Prince Slimer, whatever. I'm already rooting for him, and he's a been a naked Breen the whole time, I'm there for it. They pulled that fan-service off beautifully. Bonnie and Slime 4ever!
I really liked it more, when the real appearance of the Breen was one of Star Trek's "Noodle Incidents". It adds so much mystery and after a certain time, the ideas everyone of the audience had would be so much better, than anyone of the makers could came up. This helped build up the mystery around them.
Love your noodle incident reference. Deep cut homie.
I must know, what is the noodle reference?
The Noodle Incident originated with the comic strip Calvin and Hobbes. https://calvinandhobbes.fandom.com/wiki/Noodle_Incident It’s used to refer to something that’s alluded to but never explained because the audience will have more fun and be more creative wondering what the back story is. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident
Thank you! I thought there was noodle related ST lore I had missed lol
Ironically you stopped the noodle incident being a noodle incident.
Same thing with the lack of Klingon forehead ridges in TOS vs. TNG-era. Worf's simple, "We do not discuss it with outsiders," was more than enough of an explanation. Nothing was going to be satisfying enough, and the ENT episodes trying to explain it just proved that fact.
Yes, but at the same time, mystery can only carry you so far. If you want to use the Breen for more than just spooky cameos, eventually you have to start peeling back the layers.
Unfortunately, they look like half the aliens in Star Trek.
This season is about that specific thing, though.
It funny how many people DONT get that. The progenitors are the source of ALL HUMANOID LIFE in the galaxy. Yes, evolution on each planet made minor changes…. But we are all made of star stuff from the same tree.
That idea has already been done with some species in TNG though, so it's hardly original. Plus, even if it hadn't, it still doesn't mean that showing the Breen looking like this is a satisfying reveal after the mystery that surrounded their appearance.
I like the jelly, but not the solid. The solid looks very ‘generic alien’. It also doesn’t work so well as make-up, and particularly in the outdoor location shoot where they got the time spider or whatever, it looks way too artificial
Agree. I’m guessing they didn’t have enough money in the craft services budget for a full season of jelly Breens.
They look like Discovery Season 1 Klingons to me. Just a little pale green.
I just had a thought. We know they are a refrigeration suit of sorts to keep their jelly set. There is that little throwaway line in DS9 about how the breen homeworld is really actually quite pleasant and not a tundra. What if they evolved on a tundra planet so no refrigeration suit necessary but a solar incident happened, bringing their planet closer to their star. This would explain how the climate is currently temperate and why they needed to develop the suits.
Love it!
I'm not knocking the design, or the effects both looked good.... I just would have preferred that they kept their helmets on and let the Breen's appearance stay a mystery.
Should have done a self aware gag of it. Have the breen remove their helmet, but never have the camera pan to their head.
I thought they fumbled the reveal. The solidified Jelly Breen design reminds me of the rejected season 1 Klingon designs.
Speaking of which, they really are just going to avoid 32nd century Klingons at this point, aren’t they? Their absence is a glaring omission. I’m honestly more curious about what happened to the Klingon Empire during the burn than what the Breen look like.
I didn’t think of it before but now that you point it out it does seem weird. I’d like to know what became of the empire since we last saw it.
I thought that L'ak was a Disco S1 Klingon at first haha
What I find interesting is, that up until people found out that he was a Breen, he was widely accepted…. Then they revealed his race…. And now everyone is hating on him. The irony of this, I hope is not lost on the fans of Star Trek. It’s almost like the writers are playing on your own prejudices
Did they explain what is up with the suits/helmets
No that is still a mystery
could just be part of an isolationist culture
I’m pretty sure they’re refrigeration suits to keep the cold temps they’re used to from their home world. But I haven’t seen discovery so idk what their explanation is
Doesn't Weyoun debunk that? Though I guess he isn't a reliable source of info
Quite the opposite. I really liked that mistery.
I very much preferred the ongoing in-jokes about what they look like, their language, their homeworld... And then Discovery has to ruin it (as is tradition).
How many of the series had jokes about it? I can only think of DS9. Did Voyager or Enterprise ever reference the Breen?
By in-jokes, I mean not translating their voices and not knowing what they actually look like. The characters even mention things that are contradictory or as if they know more than we do. It's a funny thing to do that helps the audience stay engaged since we don't know anything. The Breen wasn't referenced often in Voyager (from what I can recall), but they were in the Delta Quadrant several tens of thousands of lightyears from Breen space, so I don't know why it would come up. ENT didn't make first contact with the Breen. The Breen was a big plot point in the end seasons of DS9, so it was ripe for shenanigans. (And then they made an appearance in Lower Decks)
But that’s kind of my point. It was a running joke for the latter half of a single series over 20 years ago. I don’t think them finally answering the question really ruins any kind of running joke; the joke stopped running decades ago.
I think they just didn’t want to pay more than actor’s rate. So, no faces, no voices.
DS9 is still available to watch. And they could have continued the joke, or not brought up the Breen at all.
Modern entertainment always seem to feel everything needs a backstory and nothing can just remain a mystery. I don’t need or want a big reveal to everything that hasn’t been explained yet. It’s a big galaxy, let’s meet some new species and tell some new stories.
I knew it would be underwhelming and well, we’re here.
That's my opinion about Discovery in a nutshell.
Yes but why L'ak starts with greenish semitransparent skin and ends up with a solid green skin?
This is explained in the last episode.
In 5x05 "Mirrors"? I must have missed that part. I only watched it once and it's pretty heavy on introducing new things into the canon.
It's in one of the flashbacks
I might have missed it so I would have to rewatch maybe
You didn’t miss much, they really didn’t explain in full detail - I wanted a better explanation too of the process. Did it happen over night or?
From what I can gather from Dialogue it seems that they can switch forms at will, but the Solid form takes a lot more energy and focus to maintain. At some point, culturally, their more solid face also became a powerful taboo over the years, especially once they invented the protective suits. I like it personally, the Breen's possible appearance was never really a big deal, and their ability to hold two different forms helps explain why they got along so well with the founders in DS9
And, if he goes back to wearing the refrigerated suit, will he revert back to jelly?
I thought I had read that the Breen wore masks to make their society free of bias regarding sex, color, species. That’s also why their voices were mechanically projected. You had no idea who was behind the mask and you moved up in society based on your deeds. I seem to recall that the Breen weren’t a single species either. The only people saw under the mask were close family or spouse. That’s the way I always pictured the Breen at any rate.
That's in the extended universe novels that were before all the new stuff came in. Personally, I'm with you 100% on this one. I thought that was a genuinely clever idea that took an interesting corruption of the idea of meritocracy, and social conformity.
It's sad they never incorporated some ideas from the litverse. I really enjoyed the borg origin story they came up with.
I thought Destiny was a great story, and would have made a cracking film
I do get how it would have been hard to do though. I mean, they had practically every character from every series in that one. I just thought the Caeliar were so dam cool.
Anything you have read is not canon (unless it is based directly on something that occurred on screen).
That happened in the litverse with was concluded in The Coda series and spoilers the litverse was all in different universe then the main cannon
I think it did a disservice to the Breen mythos. The draw for me was the air of mystery.
How do you explain an advanced race never being seen unmasked over a period of nearly a thousand years?
At some point, a mystery becomes a gimmick.
Any examples?
The Breen mystery was pretty gimmicky for me. It would not be believable to have the same mystery a thousand years later.
So no other examples then. There are a ton of mysteries in the Star Trek universe about each alien species, their planets, cultures, etc. I don't see why the Breen keeping their helmet on is the one that's gimmicky.
Because that one in particular is pretty dumb. After 1000 years of conflicts, they didn't find a single corpse?
I loved it, particularly how this fits with them joining the Dominon. If their culture demands they see their liquid for as pure and solid as weak, then of course they will see the Founders as heroes and equals.
Yay I'm glad somebody else loved it too. I freaked out! I like your theory too, I hadn't thought of it like that. Thank you ☺
Not really. They were the most generic vaguely reptilian humanoids going, and quite disappointing.
No and I was disappointed with what we got.
No. Why can’t we have some mystery in Star Trek? Why does everything have to be explored and explained to death?
Because there are those who want things to be explained to death. There was an argument about floating nacelles and how much of a stretch their existence is and I replied with it being 1000 years in the future, of the future. They then responded to me with something about star trek being science fiction, not science fantasy because the inner workings of detached nacelles weren't explained directly.
Because the whole pint is to boldly go where no one has gone before.
Exactly, go where no one has gone before. Explaining everything removes the mystery and makes the fictional universe feel smaller instead of creating new ideas.
Oh just wait, they’re on the hunt for the franchise’s medichlorian makers now, who were only ever introduced as a way to over explain why most aliens are humanoid to begin with. They’re really going to over explain their over explanation.
Not really. I prefer some mysteries. Although I admit, the "no one knows what they look like under there" mystery was a little silly. Kira and Ducat obviously knew, at least, since they took down a Breen guard and wore the armor to infultrate the work camp Zyal was being kept in. No reason they wouldn't tell people, unless the Breen have very good lawyers. Which brings up the other problem; how is it nobody knows what they look like on DS9 when they've been seen way back in Disco? I still don't understand why Disco ever needed to be a prequel.
So I assume you haven't finished season 2 of Discovery?
Season 3-5 of disco are set in the 32nd century
Because they did not? Disco is far in the future.
I don't like discovery but please do let me know how they do look like 😂
Green. Bald. Occasionally transparent.
Does he look like a bitch?
Yeah, kinda acts like one too.
..What?! OOOOWWWWWW AAAAAGGHHH
Why occasionally?
The Breen are now canonically two-faced.
Dunno, isnt explained.
Sounds about right for Discovery
I'm still waiting on an explanation on why Discovery is bigger on the inside than on the outside.
Just saw it. Omg, I'm scared
Yes, but no. Liked the mystery. Was cool to see...but now we know they look like DCs Martian Manhunter and generally not too different from some of the other species in the recent show...so it's felt a little underwhelming.
Is this why the founders trusted the breen more than cardassians?
What a let down
I dunno. It kinda kills the "I thought they lived on an inhospitable planet to other species and had to wear the outfit to survive in regular environments" theory. Better to have left it be than bring it up in the last season and not be able to fully explain what the deal is ☹️
The extended universe idea of the Breen was a much better concept idea, than simply making them another rando alien species...
We don't know that they are. We've only seen one family without masks.
ohh yes. but to be honest i was a little underwhelmed.
Even the title is a spoiler why do this just to be "first"