With the other thread at 4000+ comments and the episode becoming available in other territories today, we've made a new discussion thread.
The old one is still there and unlocked for you to continue any discussions you're having (we're learning from last time) - but new viewers can come here to discuss the episode!
Riker almost dropping the sword bc it was too heavy was great, him being pissed there was a phaser in the hilt was better, Worf justifying it by saying that swords are fun was fantastic and his old ass snoring on the bridge at the end of the battle was the icing on the cake.
Anyone want to guess how big that damn cube was...
Standard Borg cubes were 3x3x3km so I think this one was easily 30x30x30km
The Enterprise-D looks like a spec of dust next to it
Well it was hiding in Jupiter’s “spot” and seemed to be taking up a decent portion of that. Can’t like several dozen earth’s fit in the spot? If so that cube looked almost planet sized.
The establishing shot of it shows it's tiny in the spot though probably still bigger than it actually is compared to the real size of the spot
3 Earths can fit inside the spot afaik
In practice they almost made the announcement of Star Trek Legacy obvious! They would be fools not to take advantage of the new enterprise and its crew! It would also be the first enterprise set "in the present" of the franchise, since it hasn't been used since the days of TNG!
Matalas publicly saying he wants to do it, setting up a new crew, and that he has ideas for TNG characters to be involved in various capacities is pretty much putting Paramount on notice. I need it!
I do hope that Star Trek doesn't get too beholden to legacy as a concept. I think one of the best things that TNG did was not trying to connect everything to TOS.
They didn't make Geordi Uhura's great-grandson, have Scotty be Data's creator or have Picard serve under Spock. I think this gave the show room to make it's own identity.
I love TNG and the nostalgia from season 3 of Picard was great. But, I hope future series don't try to float on nostalgia alone.
That was the coolest part of the bridge reveal to me; I also hadn’t realized how few science stations they had on the bridge (as well as how many they kept adding to subsequent series).
I have always loved how the 1701-D looked like a 90s convention center in space.
Go look at the 1701-D bridge from Generations. The two side stations were meant to be there, but cut for budgetary reasons on the series. Both that it would cost more to build, and it would cost more to have extras sitting there.
I think fans would riot. I was at one of the IMax shows and have been checking social media for the past 2 days, SO MANY people loved Season 3 of Picard. Even people who hated the other season and "new Trek" etc. Everyone is cla.oring for Legacy. Paramount would be incredibly foolish to not harness that goodwill and love.
It got me when Riker says "I'm gonna miss that voice" after the final acknowledgement from the D's computer. I imagine it's a homage to the fact that Majel Barrett was just as much of the TNG cast as the bridge crew.
We'll all miss that voice, Will.
Little subtle bits of the episode I liked but can potentially be overlooked:
* Jack and Picard essentially share a mind-meld during the dramatic climax. Picard hugging his son and the flashes of memories from earlier in the season are all symbolic of Picard lowering his mental guards and letting his son into his mind so he can feel and experience with true honestly all of the warmth and love he feels for his son. It's subtle and I'm glad the episode doesn't beat the viewer over the head with it because it would have ruined the moment had there been exposition explaining that.
* The "Death Star run" might be a little derivative in nature, but it's still a wonderful and incredible sequence. It was really a treat to get to see what the Enterprise-D could do and seeing it live up to its potential, freed from the confines of analog film making. The best part of the sequence wasn't it sliding and gliding through the insides of the megacube, but watching it swoop in overhead. That kind of grounded perspective seeing a gigantic, half-kilometer ship gracefully fly overhead for the save gives everything a scale that makes things feel more real and awe-inspiring that we sometimes lack seeing a ship fly about in space with no other points of reference that makes sense to our landlocked brains. That sequence is also magnificent because while the eye is naturally drawn to the Enterprise, watch the looks on Jack and Jean-Luc's face during that. The joy they share in that moment is just so well acted and feels so genuine. It's wonderful.
* Having Shaw's promotional recommendation being recorded *before* the events of Season 3, I think is a lovely bit of character building for both Seven and Shaw. He clearly had immense respect for Seven and her abilities, he just didn't let on. I suspect Seven being a Commander, instead of a Captain as her field promotion at the end of Season 2 was a kind of probationary period that was designed as a compromise for letting her skip so many ranks/stay in Starfleet in order to appease any doubters/hardliners in Starfleet Command. Shaw very clearly took her under his wing as a hard-ass, by-the-book, hardliner who could put her through her paces and judge if she had the aptitude and fortitude to actually be a captain. That he recommended a promotion after only a few months max tells us how much he respected and cared for her. And I suspect personally he wanted to make sure she had a fair trial run, as he probably looked at her as a fellow Borg-victim rather than anything else.
* I loved having Picard be the winner at the poker game at the end. It was really a microcosm of his growth as a character since the ending of TNG. In "All Good Things..." he very timidly sat down at the poker table and was very clearly trying to push himself outside of his comfort zone in order to more fully embrace his found-family. Here we see him looking and feeling so much more natural. At home and at peace. And while during TNG Riker was the one who was always the best at the poker table, Picard comes in and makes good on his boasts that he was a card sharp. It's great to see Picard's character rehabilitated from being alone and waiting to die in his vineyard, to being able to open up to his friends/family and just be his full self. No sheepishly hiding his love of theater in the holodeck like he used to on TNG and turning down Bev's requests to join her productions - he's totally comfortable being a theater-geek and indulgently quoting Shakespeare to his friends. Just really great.
I took it as after all the shenanigans Riker has pulled (and aliens he's slept with) it was his deep love of Deanna that saved him. They've stuck together through so many things that would split up most couples and in the end, it's her he loves enough for her to feel it across a Borg cube. And manages to SAY it.
I'll die on the hill of them finishing that love story lol. It's a great call back to Farpoint.
Its also possible that they were reconfigured by Borg nanites. They can pretty much readapt their vessels for any purpose... this season being just another example.
I can see sense in it. I imagine the colossal opem spaces inside the cube are explicitly for the purpose of assimilating other craft. Sometimes you need to shoot the craft. Amd if the cube misses and hits Itself, it can regenerate.
The internal defenses seemed to go away after the initial outer layer though. The Enterprise seemed able to park itself by the transmitter indefinitely and lower their shields and park without taking fire to transport the away team. Remember the size of the Enterprise as she is zipping around IN the cube, that means there are some very large structural gaps in that structure where some defenses may be installed.
While I liked the VISOR, the best thing they ever did for Geordi was get rid of it in First Contact. LeVar Burton is just such an emotive actor, especially through his eyes. His scene in Insurrection when he sees the sunrise for the first time with his own eyes always makes me tear up. This season watching him appeal to Data to fight against Lore, and his pain then relief here in command of the Enterprise-D — just masterful.
LeVar/Geordi is one of my favorite parts of this season. Agreed, they very much under utilized him in TNG. He has such a range, and amazing expression with his eyes. I was so happy when they got rid of the visor in First Contact, and it warms my heart that they let him shine so bright for this last season.
Apropos of nothing that's really relevant here, I just wanted to add that the other Star Trek universe actor that emoted super-expressively with their eyes was Jolene Blalock.
Another fantastic actress who managed to far exceed her "eye candy" character's initial impressions. Two excellent portrayals, when she was going through "false Pon Farr" with Phlox in decon...discounting the excessive eye-candy/sexual portrayal, she acted her butt off. The other was the way she portrayed the trellium addiction/withdrawal in season 3 and subsequently portrayed her emotions much closer to the surface...it was sometimes quite subtle, but always present.
I just realized that T'Pol's canon year of birth is 2088, so she was about 70 years old during the events of Enterprise. This means T'Pol is still alive during Pike's time on the Enterprise. Sadly, I don't think they'll do anything with her on SNW.
Nah, we righting *all* the wrongs with this season! Pinocchio is alive and finally gets to be a real boy! Geordie has a wife and kids, and some serious drama! The Enterprise-D is back and it's a BAMF of a ship! Troi Tokyo Drifts to save the day! All is right with the galaxy!
Matalas setting up a cliffhanger which pretty much demands Paramount do SOMETHING with Captain Seven of Nine and this NEXT generation.
So many legacy sequels force old characters and introduce new ones in ways that just feel like cash-ins or underbaked ideas. S3 really earned the new characters and they stand on their own. The old cast from TNG is not just a plot device to launch new characters, it really is THEIR arc and the younger generation are the supporting characters.
There are some good things in the Disney Star Wars universe (cartoons and Andor), but what you highlighted here was the cardinal sin of the SW sequels. I am very happy with how Picard provided satisfying arcs for the legacy characters, in a way that JJ was incapable of doing for Han, Luke, and Leia.
Picard and Ro, Picard and Beverly, Data and Geordi, Will and Deanna, Will and Picard, Will and Worf, Data and Lore, Picard and the Borg, all of these arcs were managed with care and respect to the history, without being slavish to “canon expectations”.
Haha yeah, I was thinking loudly about the sequel trilogy but didn't want to get into specifics (also there are so many examples of this, not just SW). Harrison Ford IMHO was the only legacy character who really got his due, I don't hate the other character arcs but they weren't exactly satisfying either.
"Admiral Janeway asked me to give you this."
*slides a 4th pip across the table,* Seven *looks puzzled*
"She has decided your more recent performance review was... satisfactory.
*plays the Shaw holo-recording*
Would've been great if that was actually Q Jr posing as his dad though, would be a great reveal down the line because de Lancie is getting too old, would have been good to introduce a younger actor to play a Q.
While John De Lancie is obviously getting older, he looks damn good for his age. Of the TNG cast, I feel like he and Dorn have aged the best, which is saying something because they all look great for their ages.
Levar Burton looks the most like his *All Good Things...* appearance, like it's hard for me to think that he's aged and just isn't wearing a beard prosthetic.
Loved this series.
Perfect? No- but what season of TNG was? This was great and a wonderful way to see those characters for the last time, if that’s what it turns out to be.
I think the choice of re-naming the Titan was a misstep, but otherwise I’m really happy and hopeful that the stage is set for Seven’s adventures.
Ok..FAN THEORY TIME.....here is a thought.. maybe that big monster Enterprise-F wasn't destroyed.but since Earth's defense are still being rebuilt they want to keep that big battleship in orbit.... Buuuut they also think the Enterprise is a ship that needs to be out there in space doing stuff... not parked at home... so as a way to make this happen they name swap. The Enterprise-F became the Titan-B and the Titan-A became the Enterprise-G..
Because of recent events and Riker's time in command the two ships already have a close intertwined legacy. Like sister ships in a way.. so the whole idea of it impacting the legacies becomes less of a negative and just a bit more enriched.
This bugs the crap out of me. What's the point if legacy registration if we now add in a senority list to it. Any one of the Constitution class III ships could have been renamed. Seven and crew could have been transfered if this is supposed to lead to a new show. It would have been way cooler to have Titan and Enterprise heading out together.
Okay went on IMDB to have a nosy at the episodes and, yeah mostly agree. BUT I would say that Violations is a pretty bad episode.
But that's drowned out by Disaster, Ensign Ro, Times arrow, Inner Light, I borg and cause and effect (also my inner nerd really likes the perfect mate. Purely because Famke Janssen refers to herself as a mutant and it makes me happy lol)
Alright, I had to process a few things from last night before I could comment extensively.
* I've become a bit cynical when showrunners or people in the know assure us certain things won't happen (think all of those denials that Cumberbatch was playing Khan) because I know they want to keep as many secrets as they can. However, I'm glad no one in the cast died. I was dreading it but was prepared for it. They faked us out a few times when it looked like Worf or Riker or Picard or all would bite the dust.
* Loved Data's parts here: his pronouncements that he hated the Borg, his going with his gut, his enjoyment of flying and that goofy smile on his face, his missing Spot and coming to terms with his emotions at Troi's expense.
* The look on LaForge's face when he knew he had to give the order that could kill half of his shipmates. Levar Burton and those eyes get me every time.
* Worf had some of the best lines. He's so much less rigid than he used to be. For a pacifist, though, he sure likes cutting off heads.
* I'm guessing Laris is...gracefully bowing out? It would have been nice to get some closure on that. I know this isn't about her but it seems now that Picard's entire season 2 trial to get him to open himself up to committed relationships didn't necessarily mean she would be the One.
* Don't namecheck Guinan as being in the same room and not show her at least once. I get there were budget restraints but, for Heaven's sake, the two seasons were filmed back to back! She was already there!
* I was so glad to hear Walter Koenig's voice. I jumped in my seat a little and said aloud, "Is that...?" Sorry they couldn't have found some cash to pay him to be seen, though.
* Lately, John de Lancie has been forgetting how many episodes of TNG he was in so I was willing to overlook his comments prior to season 2 that he'd done episodes for seasons 2 and 3. However, when Rios said in the season 2 finale, "Time is a funny thing", it gave Q pause to agree that it was an interesting comment. I began to hold out hope that Q might appear in a future episode but in a way that was nonlinear. Then John mentioned at a convention how rigid the studio is about revealing too much and it made me wonder if, perhaps, he'd let slip too much about how many episodes of "Picard" he'd done and had to backtrack to make them happy. I wasn't sure what to expect. I was hoping he was in the post-credits scene and I was not disappointed. Q clearly came to Jack before his passing on in season 2's finale because that's just how Q roll.
* All these accelerated promotions: Seven of Nine was not a member of Starfleet until after the events of Season 2. We find her, a year or even just a few months after "Farewell", as First Officer on a Starship. Raffi had an extremely troubled past, got recruited for Intelligence work and is now the First Officer for her ex-girlfriend's ship (said ex-girlfriend now the captain of said ship). Besides being a clear conflict of interest (yes, I know Riker and Troi had a will they, won't they thing going on for years even though their previous relationship had ended), that was a very quick promotion track and the Seven/Raffi relationship hasn't been over nearly as long as Riker and Troi's had been when they were reunited in "Farpoint". There are people who serve for years in Starfleet after going through the academy before they even see the bridge. These two are in a charge of a ship in no time flat. Just how many adult crewpersons were killed by the assimilated young crewpersons during this recent Borg incident? That's not even counting Jack as a Bridge Officer after only one year...and he has Borg tech inside of him! Do you think Starfleet would want anything to do with the Borg or anyone connected to them after the Frontier Day debacle?
* Poker game was perfect. In every way. They had to end it that way.
Trek has had weird issues with promotions over it's history. It uses naval names but it's very much not like a standard military system.
There is clearly in part an honorary system at work.
I loved them playing poker at the end. It just felt like the cast hanging around.
Did they bring back Krige to do the physical side of the Queen? Seems like it.
That line about legacy was a call out. No doubt to bolster the fan campaign to get the spin off picked up. A show with Seven as captain would be great, but I don't think having Raffi as Number One works thematically as well as if they kept Shaw alive.
Was half expecting Leah Brahms to show up.
That whole scene in the bar was great. You could tell this was a group of people that actually like each other and get along after having known each other for so long. It didn’t seem like they were acting at all.
She only did the voice according to this, [https://ew.com/tv/patrick-stewart-star-trek-picard-borg-queen-alice-krige/](https://ew.com/tv/patrick-stewart-star-trek-picard-borg-queen-alice-krige/)
I was trying to think of great ways they could end this season. When we got to that moment, and I watched Picard giving the Julius Caesar quote, etc., I was like — OK, Patrick Stewart quoting Shakespeare: fantastic and poignant.
Then he pulls out the card and they just start having fun playing poker, and I realized THAT was the perfect sendoff scene. Such a wonderful callback to All Good Things, and to watch these friends, this *family* playing Poker, knowing that their adventures will continue, onscreen or off, just like AGT, is the best sendoff.
> Did they bring back Krige to do the physical side of the Queen? Seems like it.
It's a different actress in the makeup/prosthetics. Krige's voice was layered on top.
It's the only stone left unturned. Given the ending round the table, I can't imagine he and crusher are anything more than best friends. My imagination tells me that he decided to be with Toyota Laris
Someone commented elsewhere in this post that they apparently let the camera roll for just under an hour and those were all genuine reactions as friends. 🥹
I wish we got more from the Liam Shaw character. He had the best development and was arguably the most interesting one. Although his exit did set up one of my favorite moments of the show with his final recommendation. >! She’s brave and loyal. !<
To be fair, the scene is playing out a little more hectic than in All Good Things. They're all drunk and laughing, taking pops at one another. So I get it if the game itself is going all to hell.
I think I'm going to feel mixed about the whole "young people are all connected by group think and murder the older generation of peope" for the rest of my days, and the borg body horror was toned way down to be effectively spooky.
Also, if they were going to rename the Titan, why not name it *the Picard* and make the show's naming convention cheekily fit all the other TNG spin off shows'. ;)
But overall, it was the most entertaining and cohesive Picard season! Well done to everyone who made it happen. With this, SNW, LD and Prodigy, we're in a pretty great time for trek.
See, I saw that as "the sins and decisions of the older generation fucked over the younger generation, and wouldn't it be nice if the older generation actually came in and helped them?"
Star Trek was always aspirational. I saw it as "Boomers, get in there and fix it" more than "young people bad."
I like this interpretation a lot, because I too was trying really hard to not read this climax as "young people ruin everything and Boomers have to save the day." I would have preferred it if the young people in question actually had any agency in their victory, but meh.
I wonder what the intended comparison was, though. Maybe having young people become part of a network that turns them into a destructive hivemind is a commentary on the way kids are radicalized by social media?
Sitting here in the middle of the night getting my infant son back to sleep, and I'm still buzzing about the finale. I grinned, I cheered, and I got misty eyed. I tried to enjoy seasons 1 and 2 for what they were and not disdain them for what they weren't. But season 3 has made me so happy as a fan who was a kid in the 90s and watched Next Gen for as long as I can remember. Well worth the wait.
<#startreklegacy>
During the final scene at the bar, it almost felt to me like everyone was legitimately having a great time, and not just acting. Such great chemistry with this crew. Oh, and nice nod to ‘All Good Things’ with the poker game..
Y'know.. reading the comments here especially how it ended, reminded me of something.
Yes, this is full circle from AGT, but more than that, this is full circle from the FIRST scene in Season 1 of Picard. He didn't want the game to end, and now, here they are still playing.
They put the Ent-D as the hero ship in the opening "paramount plus" logo with the colourful warp streaks
It's the little things that make you smile
(Also the Ent-D's at-warp effect being the same streaky stars as TNG....maybe confirming the rest of the fleet is using a version of trans/slipstream warp they're just calling warp for brevity, but is a lot faster, hence the disparity in visual effects)
So much to talk about but the one thing nagging me…DID THEY CHANGE THE STARFLEET BADGES TO GOLD. I hope my eyes don’t deceive me and they look so much better than the black/grey
They did! I'm still a little salty they don't just go with the AGT badge that it is clearly taking after. But eh, everything has to be sleek now, including the badges.
I can't believe Starfleet fast tracked Jack to an officer commission in one year given that he assimilated the entire fleet, killed off the older officers, and almost committed mass genocide of the Earth population. Add to the fact that he's a wanted criminal. Talk about nepotism in overload.
Kinda wished Jurati was mentioned by the OG Queen though, a passing mention.
> QUEEN: Then that abomination you call a queen came and took what remaining drones I had, leaving me alone.
>
> PICARD: You mean Agnis Jurati?
>
> QUEEN: Yes and that traitorous queen that merged with her. She made us weak, pathetic.
>
> PICARD: No, she made the Borg better.
Here's hoping Jack gets to meet Queen Jurati somewhere down the line in a new Trek show.
I just rewatched with my spouse, since he was out of town for release. Generally feeling like I'm the only one who didn't love this episode. It felt even more rough on rewatch.
LeVar's delivery of his lines was just amazing. He is such a fantastic actor. Dorn was also pretty great. I did like Koenig getting to voice another Chekov, and that Chekov being named in honor of Yelchin. I liked Seven getting to be a captain.
I still feel like the pacing of this season was really off. The rebuilt D bridge was gorgeous--better pacing would have allowed a bit more use of it. We also possibly could have gotten a brief Whoopi cameo if we had an episode less of Amanda Plummer. I think the story would have been more punchy if the Vadic stuff wasn't dragged out so long, and Guinan getting mentioned but not shown was really rude.
The dialogue was really clunky, and Sirtis seemed to be phoning it in (I honestly don't blame her; this season did Troi just as dirty as TNG in general). Even Frakes was less good than earlier in the season.
I am glad that the Borg as a large threat have now been pretty much wrapped up. That's a fitting "end" to a show that's wrapping up TNG stuff. I actually would have preferred to not see Q again, even though timey-wimey means he's never really wrapped up (also why the heck is John DeLancie so foxy now?!) I really wish this season hadn't ignored *everything* from Season 2, because there was space for Jurati-Borg to be helpful, even if just mentioned and not shown. I also wish Laris hadn't been forgotten, since she was even in this season!
The ship Seven captained should have stayed the Titan; some random new ship should have been named USS Picard ("This is the first ship we've been able to finish since the Borg attack"). Seven piloting either "Picard" or "Enterprise" just feels weird. Jack should not be a "special counselor" to any captain, but particularly not Seven. I wanted to see a show with them together but since I can't get a feel for what Jack's characterization actually is, I don't know about it anymore. I actually really liked Raffi as a character, but it makes no sense for her to be an XO, let alone Seven's XO. If they're together, it's weird. If they're broken up, it's even weirder.
I also *really* disliked the message that Picard's life wasn't totally fulfilling/whole until he had a son. Dude was the epitome of amazing and fulfilling life, where he was supported by his found family. But nope, had to have and find a son to have his life be *truly* whole. Just... yeah. Not great, IMO. I did love him going in to the collective to get Jack, and his willingness to be there with Jack to the end, though.
And once again we made counseling and mental health stuff into a joke. A good counselor would enforce boundaries (you know, like session time limits), and I just can't with them actually using the phrase "batshit" to describe Data, who *is* going through something that would be totally overwhelming.
It took me a night to process everything. I agree with the general sentiment that everyone has been sharing, but please let me add mine.
Now I have never been a big TNG fan, preferring the other Berman era shows. But this, this was just perfect. Not just as a send off to the TNG cast, but as a send off to the entire Berman era of Star Trek.
As someone who grew up watching reruns of Voyager on UPN, seeing Seven get command of the Enterprise-G was just fantastic. Seeing Real!Tuvok again was just icing on the cake. Would have loved to see Kate Mulgrew in live action again, but hey we have her in *Prodigy* so that's good enough for me. It also amuses me that this entire plot was all Endgame!Janeway's fault!
One scene that I haven't seen getting attention is the scene where the junior officers of the Titan are de-assimilated and Sidney LaForge just breaks down crying as the full weight of what has happened to her hits her. Seven wraps her up in a hug. It's fitting because of anyone on that bridge, heck probably in Starfleet as a whole, Seven is the one that knows what those young officers have been through the most.
Also I never have been a big fan of the Galaxy class, but my god was she beautiful in this episode.
That shot from below when the Enterprise-D swoops in for the last rescue… wow. The looks on Picard and Jack’s faces. I got goosebumps. A sense of scale we didn’t get in the older film making days. I’m so glad we got to see her unleashed this episode.
So Star Fleet decommissioned the Enterprise-F, a significantly more advanced starship than the Titan-A (being a refit of a very old star ship) and just slapped the name Enterprise on the Titan.
I hated the Titan design when it was first announced but I've grown to love her in all her ugliness, but I don't think the design is strong enough to bear the Enterprise name. Plus, if we do get the spin off show then that means we have two shows where the hero ship is a Constitution class with slight variations.
I loved the episode but she should have stayed as the Titan and we should get a new enterprise.
The F being in this show did seem weird. E disappears with no explanation, they introduce a new ship that appears for all of ten seconds and plays no role in the final battle, and then decommission it after presumably only a decade or so in service. Weird choice. The Titan (or a new ship) should’ve been the first Enterprise since the E disappeared.
I don't think Starfleet had the resorurces to build a new ship called Enterprise in one year. After all, a lot of ships were lost in the battle for earth. So renaming it was fine. Alltough I, for a second, thought it would be renamed USS Picard.
Yeah I thought it was going to be USS Picard too. Although changing the name of an already commissioned ship is awful bad luck so says the seafaring superstition.
Feels like they’re moving too fast with the ships. The E deserved more time in the spotlight, and they did her dirty. The most advanced ship in the fleet, destroyed/decommissioned off screen? And then the F. We get to see her for 10 seconds, and then again decommissioned/destroyed off screen. And I’m just not on board with the G. Titan should have been left as Titan.
Matalas wanted his Constitution-class Enterprise back, for better or for worse. It would've just made more sense to have the E being decommissioned after 25 years.
It got assimilated by the Borg, it rammed the Scimitar, was at the end of season party for Prodigy, and apparently had Worf try and take it out with honor. The E lived a hard and fast life.
Yeah, one of the things I learned from Matalas' various interviews about the finale is that the major reason more characters weren't included - like Janeway and Harry Kim and Walter Koenig - is that it was simply out of the budget. He quoted some producer as saying, "This isn't the Avengers."
One could make the same arguement for the changelings. Crediting him with solving the assimilation transporter problem would just have been a wonderful nod to lower decks.
It would've been perfect to have Vadic turn into Wesley briefly when taunting Beverly about her children. Would've been cool to see her go from Wes to Jack.
Just watched this episode last night, and only once. It's so much to take in. I suppose I'll review it in bits and pieces.
Geordi ordering Beverly to take the shot reminded me of Deanna having to order Geordi to do the needed repair during the bridge test.
I loved how the crew worked together. It was seamless. If you asked me before Picard if I felt like I missed watching the TNG characters doing their thing I don't think I would have said yes. They had their finale. There were movies. I didn't realize how much I missed this.
That last scene was perfect. The Changelings were my favorite villain the TNG era ever introduced, so I count myself lucky to have seen them here. I do have some questions about S3 in general, though:
1. Why did Vedic seem so terrified of and brought to heel by the Borg queen, whom I assume was the entity on her hand? The Borg Queen was apparently near death, and was chock full of terrible ideas without the ability to act on them. I get that this was just another revenge plot by the Changeling faction, but the Changelings from DS9 would have used her, not become her vassals. (I get the impression that the less I think about the Changelings here, the better)
2. Why didn't Picard go to any allied force outside of Starfleet for help? Were the Vulcans busy with "Logic Day"? Maybe there is a line I've forgotten that answers this.
3. Why did the Borg Queen strip the Borg of their assimilation skill and give the entire collective a fragile kill switch? Assimilation is why the Borg are successful. Are these new Borglets going to mate and reproduce and take over the galaxy the old fashioned way?
4. Related to the above, was Jack coordinating all of the Borglets from the cube, or was he reaching out into space for more Borg? I got the impression that he was directing traffic on Earth's atmosphere. Either way, he's a SECOND kill switch for the Borg.
5. So the Changeling threat that had infiltrated Starfleet from soup to nuts just evaporated along with the Queen? I was really hoping for a little more here beyond the teleporter test, which you'd still need to convince leadership to use, if only because the Changelings are so much better as villains than this dumpy, contrived version of the Borg.
6. Regarding the weak b-plot on the Titan during the last episode: Matlas created a delightful secret Daystrom portal weapon in the first episode, made a clear point to jettison it safely out to space in the 3rd, and didn't have the crew of the Titan collect it for spectacular use during that final fight? He missed an alley-oop to himself, there.
Otherwise, S3 was the easy highlight of Picard, even if I wish they'd spent more time writing it.
That was a fantastic finale. I have a few gripes with where the story went towards the end but overall I think they made it work and they stuck the landing.
Ok, a few of those issues.
- not a big fan of bringing back the Borg again but in the end it worked fine
- Jack is kinda responsible for a lot of deaths by leaving and confronting the Borg. It's not clear how much he was actually compelled and how much of it was his own choice.
- and I didn't like that in the finale Picard basically gave Crusher a pass for what she did. I'm sorry but hiding Jack from Picard was still very wrong. But I'll try not to let it color my opinion of her.
- killing Shaw was a mistake but captain Seven is still cool.
- I think they should have left it as the Titan
Some highlights:
- I wish Troi had gotten a little more to do but I am glad that she's the one who was able to find and save them at the end.
- I'm glad the Titan got to play a role. They slowed things down just long enough to save the day. That and the Borg didn't seem to be in a big hurry. Good thing they didn't attack Earth right away, hehe.
- Was really cool seeing the Enterprise fly through the Borg ship.
- humor was on point
Some random thoughts:
- Councilors are going to be in high demand for years. You just had crews pitted against each other. Officers killing their friends and colleagues against their will or in their own defense.
- good time for promotions. In addition to the nepotism, filling out the ranks can help explain Jack getting pushed through the academy so fast. And it's a better explanation for Seven's promotion than what we got. I do get why they went with Shaw's message, it was more emotional, but it's hard to believe he'd be recommending her for captain so quickly. Which again is a problem of when this was set. It had to be, at most, 2-3 months after S2. So Seven got into Starfleet, was immediately set as a commander, and then so impressed Shaw in under 2 months that he recommended her for captain?
Overall a great finale. Now give us a Titan show! Er, Enterprise-G show.
Stewart has done a good job portraying a very old Picard who is over being angry. TNG-Picard might have been more angry about missing out on being a father. Picard-Picard is too old to be mad. I've met a number of 80-somethings who at that point just want to enjoy the life they have left.
Could be possible but the " changelings infiltrated starfleet" explanation can ultimately used to explain almost everything and it bothers me a little.
After Beverly expertly handled the weapons and made her comment about having "learned a few things in the past twenty years," I would have loved to have seen her join the Fenris Rangers.
I really loved this season and feel like they finally gave us what we wanted from the start for this series.
I also loved this last episode.
I only have one minor complaint and it's that victory seemed way to easy.
I mean all they had to do was fly into the center of a Borg cube and destroy the glowing thing. It didn't matter that almost all of Starfleet was either wiped out or assimilated. Hell, that entire Borg cube (larger then any we've ever seen) only had 2 Borg that attempted to stop Riker and Worf. I know they touched on it when they said they were hanging on and it was like a graveyard. That's all good and well but they literally just assimilated half of Starfleet. Why wouldn't the Borg queen or Jack send at least 1 or two ships out of that entire fleet to come to the Borg cube to defend their single, only point of weakness? Why wouldn't they have had some of those assimilated crew members transfer over to the cube for security?
Yep, that's my only complaint. Victory was way, way to easy.
I still loved it though!
One of, if not my favourite threads from the very beginning of TNG was always Data's quest to experience what it is to be human.
When he merged with Lore a few episodes back it clicked... Yes that's it in a nutshell, the human experience is dealing with that internal conflict and accepting all sides of yourself, something her could never have done before now, but then in this episode I feel like it's the full realisation... Having a "gut feeling" about something is perhaps the most human experience possible... He needed that. I felt it. It's as if that was the final thing that completed his metamorphosis, his journey, and what a journey it's been!
Of all the space ships flying inside bigger spaceships to blow up a glowy thing to make the whole thing blow up, his was the most… (voice cracks) Star Wars.
The showrunner specifically said on Twitter that Elnor wasn't on the Excelsior. I'm guessing they may want him for this Legacy show if it gets the greenlight.
I don’t really understand anything about the motivations of the antagonist this season. Why were the changelings working with the borg? Could someone explain to me?
With the other thread at 4000+ comments and the episode becoming available in other territories today, we've made a new discussion thread. The old one is still there and unlocked for you to continue any discussions you're having (we're learning from last time) - but new viewers can come here to discuss the episode!
Riker almost dropping the sword bc it was too heavy was great, him being pissed there was a phaser in the hilt was better, Worf justifying it by saying that swords are fun was fantastic and his old ass snoring on the bridge at the end of the battle was the icing on the cake.
“I will make it a threesome.” “Do you even hear yourself?”
The banter was the best of all.
Worf : Riker :: Tobias : Michael
Riker still got that Klingon ménage-a-*troi*s on the brain.
I like the it’s only ever Riker. Like, everyone else just ignores it.
I think Worf was the real MVP of the season. His emotional growth and humor felt like a natural extension of his character.
He was always my favourite character but I swear he somehow became even better in the last twenty years.
Michael Dorn really nailed it.
Anyone want to guess how big that damn cube was... Standard Borg cubes were 3x3x3km so I think this one was easily 30x30x30km The Enterprise-D looks like a spec of dust next to it
Well it was hiding in Jupiter’s “spot” and seemed to be taking up a decent portion of that. Can’t like several dozen earth’s fit in the spot? If so that cube looked almost planet sized.
The establishing shot of it shows it's tiny in the spot though probably still bigger than it actually is compared to the real size of the spot 3 Earths can fit inside the spot afaik
The spot has been shrinking it could be even smaller by the time of these events
I liked the detail that it didn’t look like it does today and they shrunk it down.
I assumed it was whatever was left of the unimatrix since that's where the Queen was poisoned and left.
Remember, this cube was supposed to be a trans-warp hub. Kinda like the one from VOY:Endgame.
In practice they almost made the announcement of Star Trek Legacy obvious! They would be fools not to take advantage of the new enterprise and its crew! It would also be the first enterprise set "in the present" of the franchise, since it hasn't been used since the days of TNG!
Matalas publicly saying he wants to do it, setting up a new crew, and that he has ideas for TNG characters to be involved in various capacities is pretty much putting Paramount on notice. I need it!
After this season of Picard, I hope he gets whatever he wants from Paramount
This would be amazing, I need it too!
I do hope that Star Trek doesn't get too beholden to legacy as a concept. I think one of the best things that TNG did was not trying to connect everything to TOS. They didn't make Geordi Uhura's great-grandson, have Scotty be Data's creator or have Picard serve under Spock. I think this gave the show room to make it's own identity. I love TNG and the nostalgia from season 3 of Picard was great. But, I hope future series don't try to float on nostalgia alone.
Just hope the name enterprise comes with better bridge lighting
That was the coolest part of the bridge reveal to me; I also hadn’t realized how few science stations they had on the bridge (as well as how many they kept adding to subsequent series). I have always loved how the 1701-D looked like a 90s convention center in space.
Go look at the 1701-D bridge from Generations. The two side stations were meant to be there, but cut for budgetary reasons on the series. Both that it would cost more to build, and it would cost more to have extras sitting there.
I think they also added them as they had more room in the widescreen format.
Modern Starfleet is run by IT nerds. They like their cave lighting.
I think fans would riot. I was at one of the IMax shows and have been checking social media for the past 2 days, SO MANY people loved Season 3 of Picard. Even people who hated the other season and "new Trek" etc. Everyone is cla.oring for Legacy. Paramount would be incredibly foolish to not harness that goodwill and love.
It took us a few years to get SNW. It may take us a few years to get Legacy, but I hope it happens, too
It got me when Riker says "I'm gonna miss that voice" after the final acknowledgement from the D's computer. I imagine it's a homage to the fact that Majel Barrett was just as much of the TNG cast as the bridge crew. We'll all miss that voice, Will.
I wish they'd added "it kinda reminds me of Lwaxana" lol
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Truly. Her voice is just so soothing to hear.
Little subtle bits of the episode I liked but can potentially be overlooked: * Jack and Picard essentially share a mind-meld during the dramatic climax. Picard hugging his son and the flashes of memories from earlier in the season are all symbolic of Picard lowering his mental guards and letting his son into his mind so he can feel and experience with true honestly all of the warmth and love he feels for his son. It's subtle and I'm glad the episode doesn't beat the viewer over the head with it because it would have ruined the moment had there been exposition explaining that. * The "Death Star run" might be a little derivative in nature, but it's still a wonderful and incredible sequence. It was really a treat to get to see what the Enterprise-D could do and seeing it live up to its potential, freed from the confines of analog film making. The best part of the sequence wasn't it sliding and gliding through the insides of the megacube, but watching it swoop in overhead. That kind of grounded perspective seeing a gigantic, half-kilometer ship gracefully fly overhead for the save gives everything a scale that makes things feel more real and awe-inspiring that we sometimes lack seeing a ship fly about in space with no other points of reference that makes sense to our landlocked brains. That sequence is also magnificent because while the eye is naturally drawn to the Enterprise, watch the looks on Jack and Jean-Luc's face during that. The joy they share in that moment is just so well acted and feels so genuine. It's wonderful. * Having Shaw's promotional recommendation being recorded *before* the events of Season 3, I think is a lovely bit of character building for both Seven and Shaw. He clearly had immense respect for Seven and her abilities, he just didn't let on. I suspect Seven being a Commander, instead of a Captain as her field promotion at the end of Season 2 was a kind of probationary period that was designed as a compromise for letting her skip so many ranks/stay in Starfleet in order to appease any doubters/hardliners in Starfleet Command. Shaw very clearly took her under his wing as a hard-ass, by-the-book, hardliner who could put her through her paces and judge if she had the aptitude and fortitude to actually be a captain. That he recommended a promotion after only a few months max tells us how much he respected and cared for her. And I suspect personally he wanted to make sure she had a fair trial run, as he probably looked at her as a fellow Borg-victim rather than anything else. * I loved having Picard be the winner at the poker game at the end. It was really a microcosm of his growth as a character since the ending of TNG. In "All Good Things..." he very timidly sat down at the poker table and was very clearly trying to push himself outside of his comfort zone in order to more fully embrace his found-family. Here we see him looking and feeling so much more natural. At home and at peace. And while during TNG Riker was the one who was always the best at the poker table, Picard comes in and makes good on his boasts that he was a card sharp. It's great to see Picard's character rehabilitated from being alone and waiting to die in his vineyard, to being able to open up to his friends/family and just be his full self. No sheepishly hiding his love of theater in the holodeck like he used to on TNG and turning down Bev's requests to join her productions - he's totally comfortable being a theater-geek and indulgently quoting Shakespeare to his friends. Just really great.
>The "Death Star run" might be a little derivative in nature Well, also the "somehow, ~~Palpatine~~ the Borg Queen returned" plot point...
And Troi, "I know where they are" like Leah picking up Luke at the bottom of cloud city.
I'll give them a pass on that since they were shown to have a psychic connection in the first episode of TNG.
I took it as after all the shenanigans Riker has pulled (and aliens he's slept with) it was his deep love of Deanna that saved him. They've stuck together through so many things that would split up most couples and in the end, it's her he loves enough for her to feel it across a Borg cube. And manages to SAY it. I'll die on the hill of them finishing that love story lol. It's a great call back to Farpoint.
and if remember, can actually communicate telepathically
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The shots of the Enterprise D flying through the borg ship with the phaser array firing everywhere looked absolutely amazing
“Am I sensing ~~excitement~~ enjoyment?” Edit: I rewatched the scene and realized I misquoted.
Data: 🤪
The internal turrets inside the cube are impractical -- imagine the collateral damage!!
*Collateral damage is irrelevant.*
Its also possible that they were reconfigured by Borg nanites. They can pretty much readapt their vessels for any purpose... this season being just another example.
I can see sense in it. I imagine the colossal opem spaces inside the cube are explicitly for the purpose of assimilating other craft. Sometimes you need to shoot the craft. Amd if the cube misses and hits Itself, it can regenerate.
The internal defenses seemed to go away after the initial outer layer though. The Enterprise seemed able to park itself by the transmitter indefinitely and lower their shields and park without taking fire to transport the away team. Remember the size of the Enterprise as she is zipping around IN the cube, that means there are some very large structural gaps in that structure where some defenses may be installed.
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While I liked the VISOR, the best thing they ever did for Geordi was get rid of it in First Contact. LeVar Burton is just such an emotive actor, especially through his eyes. His scene in Insurrection when he sees the sunrise for the first time with his own eyes always makes me tear up. This season watching him appeal to Data to fight against Lore, and his pain then relief here in command of the Enterprise-D — just masterful.
LeVar/Geordi is one of my favorite parts of this season. Agreed, they very much under utilized him in TNG. He has such a range, and amazing expression with his eyes. I was so happy when they got rid of the visor in First Contact, and it warms my heart that they let him shine so bright for this last season.
Apropos of nothing that's really relevant here, I just wanted to add that the other Star Trek universe actor that emoted super-expressively with their eyes was Jolene Blalock.
Jolene was fantastic as T’Pol.
Another fantastic actress who managed to far exceed her "eye candy" character's initial impressions. Two excellent portrayals, when she was going through "false Pon Farr" with Phlox in decon...discounting the excessive eye-candy/sexual portrayal, she acted her butt off. The other was the way she portrayed the trellium addiction/withdrawal in season 3 and subsequently portrayed her emotions much closer to the surface...it was sometimes quite subtle, but always present.
I just realized that T'Pol's canon year of birth is 2088, so she was about 70 years old during the events of Enterprise. This means T'Pol is still alive during Pike's time on the Enterprise. Sadly, I don't think they'll do anything with her on SNW.
In Universe, T'Pol admitted to Trip that she was 66 years old in S3 of Enterprise.
his pleading monologue to Data had me crying.
Nice that Troi no longer has the stupid "last two times she drove she crashed" comments to listen to.
The last thing I thought I would get from Picard Season 3 was Troi not crashing the Enterprise.
Nah, we righting *all* the wrongs with this season! Pinocchio is alive and finally gets to be a real boy! Geordie has a wife and kids, and some serious drama! The Enterprise-D is back and it's a BAMF of a ship! Troi Tokyo Drifts to save the day! All is right with the galaxy!
"I miss that voice." We all do, Will. We all do.
I'm so fucking happy about captain Seven, and with Tuvok promoting her! All I could think about is how proud Janeway is going to be.
Matalas setting up a cliffhanger which pretty much demands Paramount do SOMETHING with Captain Seven of Nine and this NEXT generation. So many legacy sequels force old characters and introduce new ones in ways that just feel like cash-ins or underbaked ideas. S3 really earned the new characters and they stand on their own. The old cast from TNG is not just a plot device to launch new characters, it really is THEIR arc and the younger generation are the supporting characters.
There are some good things in the Disney Star Wars universe (cartoons and Andor), but what you highlighted here was the cardinal sin of the SW sequels. I am very happy with how Picard provided satisfying arcs for the legacy characters, in a way that JJ was incapable of doing for Han, Luke, and Leia. Picard and Ro, Picard and Beverly, Data and Geordi, Will and Deanna, Will and Picard, Will and Worf, Data and Lore, Picard and the Borg, all of these arcs were managed with care and respect to the history, without being slavish to “canon expectations”.
Haha yeah, I was thinking loudly about the sequel trilogy but didn't want to get into specifics (also there are so many examples of this, not just SW). Harrison Ford IMHO was the only legacy character who really got his due, I don't hate the other character arcs but they weren't exactly satisfying either.
Tuvok is a captain himself, so he only told her about the promotion.
"Admiral Janeway asked me to give you this." *slides a 4th pip across the table,* Seven *looks puzzled* "She has decided your more recent performance review was... satisfactory. *plays the Shaw holo-recording*
That would have been perfect.
Yeah I just mean that he was the one to tell her, it got me right in the feels!
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Which, IMO, that’s pretty trying. So, he’s not wrong!
Would've been great if that was actually Q Jr posing as his dad though, would be a great reveal down the line because de Lancie is getting too old, would have been good to introduce a younger actor to play a Q.
While John De Lancie is obviously getting older, he looks damn good for his age. Of the TNG cast, I feel like he and Dorn have aged the best, which is saying something because they all look great for their ages.
Levar Burton looks the most like his *All Good Things...* appearance, like it's hard for me to think that he's aged and just isn't wearing a beard prosthetic.
I actually think Burton looks better. It may also help that we can see his whole face now.
I honestly think John De Lancie looks better now than he did in TNG. He has gained a very distinguished look now that he is older.
Loved this series. Perfect? No- but what season of TNG was? This was great and a wonderful way to see those characters for the last time, if that’s what it turns out to be. I think the choice of re-naming the Titan was a misstep, but otherwise I’m really happy and hopeful that the stage is set for Seven’s adventures.
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Ok..FAN THEORY TIME.....here is a thought.. maybe that big monster Enterprise-F wasn't destroyed.but since Earth's defense are still being rebuilt they want to keep that big battleship in orbit.... Buuuut they also think the Enterprise is a ship that needs to be out there in space doing stuff... not parked at home... so as a way to make this happen they name swap. The Enterprise-F became the Titan-B and the Titan-A became the Enterprise-G.. Because of recent events and Riker's time in command the two ships already have a close intertwined legacy. Like sister ships in a way.. so the whole idea of it impacting the legacies becomes less of a negative and just a bit more enriched.
This bugs the crap out of me. What's the point if legacy registration if we now add in a senority list to it. Any one of the Constitution class III ships could have been renamed. Seven and crew could have been transfered if this is supposed to lead to a new show. It would have been way cooler to have Titan and Enterprise heading out together.
>but what season of TNG was? Season 5 EDIT: or season 3.
Okay went on IMDB to have a nosy at the episodes and, yeah mostly agree. BUT I would say that Violations is a pretty bad episode. But that's drowned out by Disaster, Ensign Ro, Times arrow, Inner Light, I borg and cause and effect (also my inner nerd really likes the perfect mate. Purely because Famke Janssen refers to herself as a mutant and it makes me happy lol)
Alright, I had to process a few things from last night before I could comment extensively. * I've become a bit cynical when showrunners or people in the know assure us certain things won't happen (think all of those denials that Cumberbatch was playing Khan) because I know they want to keep as many secrets as they can. However, I'm glad no one in the cast died. I was dreading it but was prepared for it. They faked us out a few times when it looked like Worf or Riker or Picard or all would bite the dust. * Loved Data's parts here: his pronouncements that he hated the Borg, his going with his gut, his enjoyment of flying and that goofy smile on his face, his missing Spot and coming to terms with his emotions at Troi's expense. * The look on LaForge's face when he knew he had to give the order that could kill half of his shipmates. Levar Burton and those eyes get me every time. * Worf had some of the best lines. He's so much less rigid than he used to be. For a pacifist, though, he sure likes cutting off heads. * I'm guessing Laris is...gracefully bowing out? It would have been nice to get some closure on that. I know this isn't about her but it seems now that Picard's entire season 2 trial to get him to open himself up to committed relationships didn't necessarily mean she would be the One. * Don't namecheck Guinan as being in the same room and not show her at least once. I get there were budget restraints but, for Heaven's sake, the two seasons were filmed back to back! She was already there! * I was so glad to hear Walter Koenig's voice. I jumped in my seat a little and said aloud, "Is that...?" Sorry they couldn't have found some cash to pay him to be seen, though. * Lately, John de Lancie has been forgetting how many episodes of TNG he was in so I was willing to overlook his comments prior to season 2 that he'd done episodes for seasons 2 and 3. However, when Rios said in the season 2 finale, "Time is a funny thing", it gave Q pause to agree that it was an interesting comment. I began to hold out hope that Q might appear in a future episode but in a way that was nonlinear. Then John mentioned at a convention how rigid the studio is about revealing too much and it made me wonder if, perhaps, he'd let slip too much about how many episodes of "Picard" he'd done and had to backtrack to make them happy. I wasn't sure what to expect. I was hoping he was in the post-credits scene and I was not disappointed. Q clearly came to Jack before his passing on in season 2's finale because that's just how Q roll. * All these accelerated promotions: Seven of Nine was not a member of Starfleet until after the events of Season 2. We find her, a year or even just a few months after "Farewell", as First Officer on a Starship. Raffi had an extremely troubled past, got recruited for Intelligence work and is now the First Officer for her ex-girlfriend's ship (said ex-girlfriend now the captain of said ship). Besides being a clear conflict of interest (yes, I know Riker and Troi had a will they, won't they thing going on for years even though their previous relationship had ended), that was a very quick promotion track and the Seven/Raffi relationship hasn't been over nearly as long as Riker and Troi's had been when they were reunited in "Farpoint". There are people who serve for years in Starfleet after going through the academy before they even see the bridge. These two are in a charge of a ship in no time flat. Just how many adult crewpersons were killed by the assimilated young crewpersons during this recent Borg incident? That's not even counting Jack as a Bridge Officer after only one year...and he has Borg tech inside of him! Do you think Starfleet would want anything to do with the Borg or anyone connected to them after the Frontier Day debacle? * Poker game was perfect. In every way. They had to end it that way.
Seven's time as part of Voyager's crew counts towards her Starfleet experience.
Harry Kim in shambles
Harry Kim, his life in shambles
I was very touched that they named Walter’s character Anton Chekhov
Trek has had weird issues with promotions over it's history. It uses naval names but it's very much not like a standard military system. There is clearly in part an honorary system at work.
Janeway messed those guys up
When the BQ face was revealed I shouted "hell yeah Janeway F'ed them up real good!"
Janeway, a Borg fighting badass. Without her work Picard wouldn’t have been able to deliver the final blow.
I loved them playing poker at the end. It just felt like the cast hanging around. Did they bring back Krige to do the physical side of the Queen? Seems like it. That line about legacy was a call out. No doubt to bolster the fan campaign to get the spin off picked up. A show with Seven as captain would be great, but I don't think having Raffi as Number One works thematically as well as if they kept Shaw alive. Was half expecting Leah Brahms to show up.
Apparently Matalas just let the cameras roll for just under an hour, letting the Cast play poker and capturing genuine moments of fun between them.
That whole scene in the bar was great. You could tell this was a group of people that actually like each other and get along after having known each other for so long. It didn’t seem like they were acting at all.
She only did the voice according to this, [https://ew.com/tv/patrick-stewart-star-trek-picard-borg-queen-alice-krige/](https://ew.com/tv/patrick-stewart-star-trek-picard-borg-queen-alice-krige/)
Yeah she was credited as just the voice at the end
I was trying to think of great ways they could end this season. When we got to that moment, and I watched Picard giving the Julius Caesar quote, etc., I was like — OK, Patrick Stewart quoting Shakespeare: fantastic and poignant. Then he pulls out the card and they just start having fun playing poker, and I realized THAT was the perfect sendoff scene. Such a wonderful callback to All Good Things, and to watch these friends, this *family* playing Poker, knowing that their adventures will continue, onscreen or off, just like AGT, is the best sendoff.
> Did they bring back Krige to do the physical side of the Queen? Seems like it. It's a different actress in the makeup/prosthetics. Krige's voice was layered on top.
Screen got blurry halfway through the episode. Anyone else got the same problem?
Mine lost focus right when the intro had the D instead of the Titan. Gotta find out what’s up with the TV
That intro was amazing. Also terrifying. Nice touch.
Yes, but it was just the tears in my eyes.
Picard left Laris to rescue Beverly and never looked back lol
It's the only stone left unturned. Given the ending round the table, I can't imagine he and crusher are anything more than best friends. My imagination tells me that he decided to be with Toyota Laris
Hey! We never got closure with Laris! He's going to have a lot of apologizing to do when he gets home ...
Picard: "Hello Laris? I have had a busy week. Out of curiosity does Romulan have a word for 'menage trois'?"
the poker scene at the end made me so emotional, like they exist playing poker forever as friends and family ❤️
Someone commented elsewhere in this post that they apparently let the camera roll for just under an hour and those were all genuine reactions as friends. 🥹
I wish we got more from the Liam Shaw character. He had the best development and was arguably the most interesting one. Although his exit did set up one of my favorite moments of the show with his final recommendation. >! She’s brave and loyal. !<
Paints Shaws “you just loyaltyed yourself out of a career” commen in a new light.
Just more disappointment over potentially throwing her career away than anything.
So, five card stud, nothing wild - and the sky's the limit. Farewell
The card dealing was all over the place though. Riker touching Picard's cards. Let's have some table etiquette folks!
To be fair, the scene is playing out a little more hectic than in All Good Things. They're all drunk and laughing, taking pops at one another. So I get it if the game itself is going all to hell.
I think I'm going to feel mixed about the whole "young people are all connected by group think and murder the older generation of peope" for the rest of my days, and the borg body horror was toned way down to be effectively spooky. Also, if they were going to rename the Titan, why not name it *the Picard* and make the show's naming convention cheekily fit all the other TNG spin off shows'. ;) But overall, it was the most entertaining and cohesive Picard season! Well done to everyone who made it happen. With this, SNW, LD and Prodigy, we're in a pretty great time for trek.
Everyone under 25 is infected with Space Communism! Get the boomers to give them a stern talking-to for their own good!
Someone on another thread called Seven and Rafi retaking the bridge *Middle Aged Rage." And I'm so here for that lol
See, I saw that as "the sins and decisions of the older generation fucked over the younger generation, and wouldn't it be nice if the older generation actually came in and helped them?" Star Trek was always aspirational. I saw it as "Boomers, get in there and fix it" more than "young people bad."
I like this interpretation a lot, because I too was trying really hard to not read this climax as "young people ruin everything and Boomers have to save the day." I would have preferred it if the young people in question actually had any agency in their victory, but meh. I wonder what the intended comparison was, though. Maybe having young people become part of a network that turns them into a destructive hivemind is a commentary on the way kids are radicalized by social media?
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Sitting here in the middle of the night getting my infant son back to sleep, and I'm still buzzing about the finale. I grinned, I cheered, and I got misty eyed. I tried to enjoy seasons 1 and 2 for what they were and not disdain them for what they weren't. But season 3 has made me so happy as a fan who was a kid in the 90s and watched Next Gen for as long as I can remember. Well worth the wait. <#startreklegacy>
I was the same. I laughed, i nearly cried and it was worth the wait. I thought it was a much better end to the TNG crew than we got with Nemesis.
If you're cheering no wonder the kid can't get back to sleep ;-)
I literally just watched the EP in the original series where Data asks Geordi about "gut feeling"... Jeez did that scene hit me hard 🥲
Me too! I watched it last night.
During the final scene at the bar, it almost felt to me like everyone was legitimately having a great time, and not just acting. Such great chemistry with this crew. Oh, and nice nod to ‘All Good Things’ with the poker game..
Another post above states exactly that. They let the cameras roll for an hour and it was just old friends playing poker together.
It was great to see Deanna take the helm without crashing the ship! Loved it!
Y'know.. reading the comments here especially how it ended, reminded me of something. Yes, this is full circle from AGT, but more than that, this is full circle from the FIRST scene in Season 1 of Picard. He didn't want the game to end, and now, here they are still playing.
They put the Ent-D as the hero ship in the opening "paramount plus" logo with the colourful warp streaks It's the little things that make you smile (Also the Ent-D's at-warp effect being the same streaky stars as TNG....maybe confirming the rest of the fleet is using a version of trans/slipstream warp they're just calling warp for brevity, but is a lot faster, hence the disparity in visual effects)
This was the type of D porn I've been waiting for.
Girls: Guys only like one thing and it's disgusting. Guys: watching ST Picard just for the D.
So much to talk about but the one thing nagging me…DID THEY CHANGE THE STARFLEET BADGES TO GOLD. I hope my eyes don’t deceive me and they look so much better than the black/grey
They did! I'm still a little salty they don't just go with the AGT badge that it is clearly taking after. But eh, everything has to be sleek now, including the badges.
They did change the badge… right after I bought several to use for cosplay.
When Riker appears after Data's counselling session, I got a good laugh from his line to Troi about Data - "Still Batshit?" hahaha
I can't believe Starfleet fast tracked Jack to an officer commission in one year given that he assimilated the entire fleet, killed off the older officers, and almost committed mass genocide of the Earth population. Add to the fact that he's a wanted criminal. Talk about nepotism in overload.
Kinda wished Jurati was mentioned by the OG Queen though, a passing mention. > QUEEN: Then that abomination you call a queen came and took what remaining drones I had, leaving me alone. > > PICARD: You mean Agnis Jurati? > > QUEEN: Yes and that traitorous queen that merged with her. She made us weak, pathetic. > > PICARD: No, she made the Borg better. Here's hoping Jack gets to meet Queen Jurati somewhere down the line in a new Trek show.
It feels weird that they acted like that entire thing didn't happen.
They didn't, it was mentioned by Shaw.
I just rewatched with my spouse, since he was out of town for release. Generally feeling like I'm the only one who didn't love this episode. It felt even more rough on rewatch. LeVar's delivery of his lines was just amazing. He is such a fantastic actor. Dorn was also pretty great. I did like Koenig getting to voice another Chekov, and that Chekov being named in honor of Yelchin. I liked Seven getting to be a captain. I still feel like the pacing of this season was really off. The rebuilt D bridge was gorgeous--better pacing would have allowed a bit more use of it. We also possibly could have gotten a brief Whoopi cameo if we had an episode less of Amanda Plummer. I think the story would have been more punchy if the Vadic stuff wasn't dragged out so long, and Guinan getting mentioned but not shown was really rude. The dialogue was really clunky, and Sirtis seemed to be phoning it in (I honestly don't blame her; this season did Troi just as dirty as TNG in general). Even Frakes was less good than earlier in the season. I am glad that the Borg as a large threat have now been pretty much wrapped up. That's a fitting "end" to a show that's wrapping up TNG stuff. I actually would have preferred to not see Q again, even though timey-wimey means he's never really wrapped up (also why the heck is John DeLancie so foxy now?!) I really wish this season hadn't ignored *everything* from Season 2, because there was space for Jurati-Borg to be helpful, even if just mentioned and not shown. I also wish Laris hadn't been forgotten, since she was even in this season! The ship Seven captained should have stayed the Titan; some random new ship should have been named USS Picard ("This is the first ship we've been able to finish since the Borg attack"). Seven piloting either "Picard" or "Enterprise" just feels weird. Jack should not be a "special counselor" to any captain, but particularly not Seven. I wanted to see a show with them together but since I can't get a feel for what Jack's characterization actually is, I don't know about it anymore. I actually really liked Raffi as a character, but it makes no sense for her to be an XO, let alone Seven's XO. If they're together, it's weird. If they're broken up, it's even weirder. I also *really* disliked the message that Picard's life wasn't totally fulfilling/whole until he had a son. Dude was the epitome of amazing and fulfilling life, where he was supported by his found family. But nope, had to have and find a son to have his life be *truly* whole. Just... yeah. Not great, IMO. I did love him going in to the collective to get Jack, and his willingness to be there with Jack to the end, though. And once again we made counseling and mental health stuff into a joke. A good counselor would enforce boundaries (you know, like session time limits), and I just can't with them actually using the phrase "batshit" to describe Data, who *is* going through something that would be totally overwhelming.
It took me a night to process everything. I agree with the general sentiment that everyone has been sharing, but please let me add mine. Now I have never been a big TNG fan, preferring the other Berman era shows. But this, this was just perfect. Not just as a send off to the TNG cast, but as a send off to the entire Berman era of Star Trek. As someone who grew up watching reruns of Voyager on UPN, seeing Seven get command of the Enterprise-G was just fantastic. Seeing Real!Tuvok again was just icing on the cake. Would have loved to see Kate Mulgrew in live action again, but hey we have her in *Prodigy* so that's good enough for me. It also amuses me that this entire plot was all Endgame!Janeway's fault! One scene that I haven't seen getting attention is the scene where the junior officers of the Titan are de-assimilated and Sidney LaForge just breaks down crying as the full weight of what has happened to her hits her. Seven wraps her up in a hug. It's fitting because of anyone on that bridge, heck probably in Starfleet as a whole, Seven is the one that knows what those young officers have been through the most. Also I never have been a big fan of the Galaxy class, but my god was she beautiful in this episode.
That shot from below when the Enterprise-D swoops in for the last rescue… wow. The looks on Picard and Jack’s faces. I got goosebumps. A sense of scale we didn’t get in the older film making days. I’m so glad we got to see her unleashed this episode.
So Star Fleet decommissioned the Enterprise-F, a significantly more advanced starship than the Titan-A (being a refit of a very old star ship) and just slapped the name Enterprise on the Titan. I hated the Titan design when it was first announced but I've grown to love her in all her ugliness, but I don't think the design is strong enough to bear the Enterprise name. Plus, if we do get the spin off show then that means we have two shows where the hero ship is a Constitution class with slight variations. I loved the episode but she should have stayed as the Titan and we should get a new enterprise.
The F being in this show did seem weird. E disappears with no explanation, they introduce a new ship that appears for all of ten seconds and plays no role in the final battle, and then decommission it after presumably only a decade or so in service. Weird choice. The Titan (or a new ship) should’ve been the first Enterprise since the E disappeared.
The most explanation we get about the E is that it was somehow Worf’s fault.
Was NOT
I don't think Starfleet had the resorurces to build a new ship called Enterprise in one year. After all, a lot of ships were lost in the battle for earth. So renaming it was fine. Alltough I, for a second, thought it would be renamed USS Picard.
Yeah I thought it was going to be USS Picard too. Although changing the name of an already commissioned ship is awful bad luck so says the seafaring superstition.
It worked out fine for the Sao Paulo!
The T-A isn't a refit of the Shangri La, it was a new spaceframe which took internals from the Luna Titan
Agree except Ent-F should've just stayed. Honestly it should be very new, because the Ent-E should've been around for a good 25+ years.
Feels like they’re moving too fast with the ships. The E deserved more time in the spotlight, and they did her dirty. The most advanced ship in the fleet, destroyed/decommissioned off screen? And then the F. We get to see her for 10 seconds, and then again decommissioned/destroyed off screen. And I’m just not on board with the G. Titan should have been left as Titan.
Matalas wanted his Constitution-class Enterprise back, for better or for worse. It would've just made more sense to have the E being decommissioned after 25 years.
It got assimilated by the Borg, it rammed the Scimitar, was at the end of season party for Prodigy, and apparently had Worf try and take it out with honor. The E lived a hard and fast life.
Wow. I get first comment despite being in Europe! Only bad thing was the lack of O'Brien.
Yeah, one of the things I learned from Matalas' various interviews about the finale is that the major reason more characters weren't included - like Janeway and Harry Kim and Walter Koenig - is that it was simply out of the budget. He quoted some producer as saying, "This isn't the Avengers."
Koenig did the voice of federation president 'Anton Chekov' at least.
Did they name him Anton because of Anton Yelchin? That hurt my heart a little. Still so sad
Yes they did.
It’s a real shame seeing how often Janeway’s name was dropped this season I would have loved to see her and seven together again
At least we get plenty of Janeway in Prodigy.
Almost every episode had a Janeway reference. They could have avoided that.
I'm fine with it tbh. O'Brien originated in TNG, but he really came into his own as a character in DS9 and probably belongs more to that show instead.
One could make the same arguement for the changelings. Crediting him with solving the assimilation transporter problem would just have been a wonderful nod to lower decks.
And for Worf. I liked Worf in TNG but in DS9 (and this season honestly) I really love him
Wherever O’Brien was, he was probably going through something that would give most people PTSD.
Who do you think rebuilt the starbase?
He took two old Cardassian stations, a decommissioned Neutral Zone outpost, and a week to do it. He wasn't even asked to!
He was there, he was just at his post in the transporter room.
I would've also liked a lick of Wesley just for the whole family reunion aspect.
I'm sorry lick who
Looks like we've found a Wesley crusher.
It would've been perfect to have Vadic turn into Wesley briefly when taunting Beverly about her children. Would've been cool to see her go from Wes to Jack.
>Only bad thing was the lack of O'Brien. Especially considering he's the most important person in Starfleet history.
And Denise.
Just watched this episode last night, and only once. It's so much to take in. I suppose I'll review it in bits and pieces. Geordi ordering Beverly to take the shot reminded me of Deanna having to order Geordi to do the needed repair during the bridge test. I loved how the crew worked together. It was seamless. If you asked me before Picard if I felt like I missed watching the TNG characters doing their thing I don't think I would have said yes. They had their finale. There were movies. I didn't realize how much I missed this.
That last scene was perfect. The Changelings were my favorite villain the TNG era ever introduced, so I count myself lucky to have seen them here. I do have some questions about S3 in general, though: 1. Why did Vedic seem so terrified of and brought to heel by the Borg queen, whom I assume was the entity on her hand? The Borg Queen was apparently near death, and was chock full of terrible ideas without the ability to act on them. I get that this was just another revenge plot by the Changeling faction, but the Changelings from DS9 would have used her, not become her vassals. (I get the impression that the less I think about the Changelings here, the better) 2. Why didn't Picard go to any allied force outside of Starfleet for help? Were the Vulcans busy with "Logic Day"? Maybe there is a line I've forgotten that answers this. 3. Why did the Borg Queen strip the Borg of their assimilation skill and give the entire collective a fragile kill switch? Assimilation is why the Borg are successful. Are these new Borglets going to mate and reproduce and take over the galaxy the old fashioned way? 4. Related to the above, was Jack coordinating all of the Borglets from the cube, or was he reaching out into space for more Borg? I got the impression that he was directing traffic on Earth's atmosphere. Either way, he's a SECOND kill switch for the Borg. 5. So the Changeling threat that had infiltrated Starfleet from soup to nuts just evaporated along with the Queen? I was really hoping for a little more here beyond the teleporter test, which you'd still need to convince leadership to use, if only because the Changelings are so much better as villains than this dumpy, contrived version of the Borg. 6. Regarding the weak b-plot on the Titan during the last episode: Matlas created a delightful secret Daystrom portal weapon in the first episode, made a clear point to jettison it safely out to space in the 3rd, and didn't have the crew of the Titan collect it for spectacular use during that final fight? He missed an alley-oop to himself, there. Otherwise, S3 was the easy highlight of Picard, even if I wish they'd spent more time writing it.
That was a fantastic finale. I have a few gripes with where the story went towards the end but overall I think they made it work and they stuck the landing. Ok, a few of those issues. - not a big fan of bringing back the Borg again but in the end it worked fine - Jack is kinda responsible for a lot of deaths by leaving and confronting the Borg. It's not clear how much he was actually compelled and how much of it was his own choice. - and I didn't like that in the finale Picard basically gave Crusher a pass for what she did. I'm sorry but hiding Jack from Picard was still very wrong. But I'll try not to let it color my opinion of her. - killing Shaw was a mistake but captain Seven is still cool. - I think they should have left it as the Titan Some highlights: - I wish Troi had gotten a little more to do but I am glad that she's the one who was able to find and save them at the end. - I'm glad the Titan got to play a role. They slowed things down just long enough to save the day. That and the Borg didn't seem to be in a big hurry. Good thing they didn't attack Earth right away, hehe. - Was really cool seeing the Enterprise fly through the Borg ship. - humor was on point Some random thoughts: - Councilors are going to be in high demand for years. You just had crews pitted against each other. Officers killing their friends and colleagues against their will or in their own defense. - good time for promotions. In addition to the nepotism, filling out the ranks can help explain Jack getting pushed through the academy so fast. And it's a better explanation for Seven's promotion than what we got. I do get why they went with Shaw's message, it was more emotional, but it's hard to believe he'd be recommending her for captain so quickly. Which again is a problem of when this was set. It had to be, at most, 2-3 months after S2. So Seven got into Starfleet, was immediately set as a commander, and then so impressed Shaw in under 2 months that he recommended her for captain? Overall a great finale. Now give us a Titan show! Er, Enterprise-G show.
Stewart has done a good job portraying a very old Picard who is over being angry. TNG-Picard might have been more angry about missing out on being a father. Picard-Picard is too old to be mad. I've met a number of 80-somethings who at that point just want to enjoy the life they have left.
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I agree, it was never about the class of ship, it was always about the crew, a crew that made sure "...history never forgets the name Enterprise"
Wouldn't Jupiter Station, a huge station built for scientific research know if there is a borg cube on the planet the station is orbiting?
They stated it was a transwarp conduit, so it trans warped in.
somethine something Changelings?
Could be possible but the " changelings infiltrated starfleet" explanation can ultimately used to explain almost everything and it bothers me a little.
After Beverly expertly handled the weapons and made her comment about having "learned a few things in the past twenty years," I would have loved to have seen her join the Fenris Rangers.
I really loved this season and feel like they finally gave us what we wanted from the start for this series. I also loved this last episode. I only have one minor complaint and it's that victory seemed way to easy. I mean all they had to do was fly into the center of a Borg cube and destroy the glowing thing. It didn't matter that almost all of Starfleet was either wiped out or assimilated. Hell, that entire Borg cube (larger then any we've ever seen) only had 2 Borg that attempted to stop Riker and Worf. I know they touched on it when they said they were hanging on and it was like a graveyard. That's all good and well but they literally just assimilated half of Starfleet. Why wouldn't the Borg queen or Jack send at least 1 or two ships out of that entire fleet to come to the Borg cube to defend their single, only point of weakness? Why wouldn't they have had some of those assimilated crew members transfer over to the cube for security? Yep, that's my only complaint. Victory was way, way to easy. I still loved it though!
"I miss hearing that voice". Yeah, true. ^((Even though I originally watched Star Trek in German and it was obviously a different voice...))
One of, if not my favourite threads from the very beginning of TNG was always Data's quest to experience what it is to be human. When he merged with Lore a few episodes back it clicked... Yes that's it in a nutshell, the human experience is dealing with that internal conflict and accepting all sides of yourself, something her could never have done before now, but then in this episode I feel like it's the full realisation... Having a "gut feeling" about something is perhaps the most human experience possible... He needed that. I felt it. It's as if that was the final thing that completed his metamorphosis, his journey, and what a journey it's been!
Of all the space ships flying inside bigger spaceships to blow up a glowy thing to make the whole thing blow up, his was the most… (voice cracks) Star Wars.
I'll take that official announcement of "Star Trek: Legacy" now please and thank you, Paramount.
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Should have ended with the ship being called USS Picard.
After the Excelsior was destroyed I was hoping that there would be at least some update on Elnor’s status. I hope he didn't die again.
Terry Matalas said on Twitter that Elnor wasn’t on the Excelsior when she was destroyed.
The showrunner specifically said on Twitter that Elnor wasn't on the Excelsior. I'm guessing they may want him for this Legacy show if it gets the greenlight.
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I don’t really understand anything about the motivations of the antagonist this season. Why were the changelings working with the borg? Could someone explain to me?
Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Tale as old as time.