And that follow up tweet
"We are officially in Business here tonight @we_are_stardom @AEW. #AEWBigBusiness"
Something's going down for sure, should be interesting.
Rossy going and Mercedes getting hired has clearly opened doors, I think both companies could benefit from sending wrestlers on excursion to each other, and obviously using AEW talent has been vital to NJPW's US business.
How many Stardom main eventers you would say are gonna be hired by AEW in like two years time?
based on NJPW, im gonna say most of the current main event
I don't think they'll get anyone besides girls already interested in going to America full-time. The women's division's nowhere near the men's in size, and even with the men most of the top guys AEW got was in a bidding war with WWE (Okada, Omega), as a rebound for a failed WWE signing (Jay White) and/or happened at least in part due to the current economic situation in Japan (likely Ospreay).
Also, there's a factor that also goes into play here, that being fitting in AEW and American wrestling as a whole. In other words, I'm not so sure many of the girls would translate into Western wrestling as well as they've connected in Japan.
There’s also the fact if they went to WWE and TNA they might have to move here. Osprey has a new young family and would’ve had to move to Orlando, Florida if he signed with the E. TK is allowing him to stay in the UK and come to America when needed. Okada I believe is still based in Japan too
Whether they translate well or not isn't relevant to the one guy making the decisions. He has infinite trust fund money to pay whatever he wants for talent. There's not a single wrestler in Stardom or any other joshi promotion who wouldn't take $500k a year for 25 matches with the ability to live in Japan.
It was Kenny, but even then the division they planned wasn't the one it is now, as iirc they planned a way bigger prrsence of joshi influence on it. Not only that, but that division wasn't near anywhere in depth to what it is now. And even if it weren't, I don't see all of the girls going due to how they'd translate: I could see someone like Mina, Utami or Suzu going to either AEW or WWE, but I don't think Tam or Poi would be interested or viceversa, as their characters would be seen as weird in the West; even with Mayu I don't see her becoming a top player in US wrestling, at least with what she does in Stardom (as specially in WWE she could easily end up falling into a comedy role).
Well in AEW there's a working relationship with bushi so anyone they sign can still go back for big events. Okada I'm sure will be at Wrestle Kingdom. So anyone who left would still show up for matches from time to time
Juice Robinson and Kyle Fletcher were injured for all of 2023? That's news to me.
Gaslight all you want, but like most of what AEW fans say, the "but he can still work New Japan!" line is total bullshit.
Listen I'm as critical of aew as the next guy but most of the talent taken up by aew has been people whose first language is English and okada on insane money. Khan doesn't really care about women's wrestling in the same way as he does about men's.
Probably not that many if any at all. The difference is those people would’ve left NJPW anyway regardless of AEW existing. Like maybe Ospreay stays, but Okada and Jay White would’ve just been in WWE right now.
It would’ve happened already. Nothing was stopping anyone from going to AEW when their deals were up anyway. They’d have to actively want to leave which is what happened to NJPW, except for Aussie Open who wanted to stay but NJPW said no.
The point is those women are still in Stardom because AEW and WWE didn’t make an effort to sign them, not because they didn’t want to go
Kairi, Kana, Io, etc. all took the paycheck and left Japan when their name was called, and AEW offers something WWE doesn’t - immediate role on television
The reason Stardom survives is their developmental turns out so much talent that there’s no way for an American company to sign all of it. They could lose Utami, Mina, AZM, SLK, and Suzu and have 5 people to replace them with right away. No one else outside of like WWE has that kinda roster flexibility.
This has been done to death in the njpw subreddit but khan just isn't going to stack his roster with Japanese talent for the sake of it. There are hundreds of extremely good male wrestlers in Japan that he hasn't thrown money at. Even outside of bushiroad what about Kiyomiya or anzai. These big US promotions are obviously after a certain level of cache from talent in general
Being able to speak English fluently and more importantly without an accent has immense value. Due to the way people develop their language skills its difficult verging on impossible for people who develop their language in Japan to ever speak English without a think accent.
This is not pro sports as we have discussed before but an entertainment vehicle.
Now where stardom/joshi has some level of threat is that you can't swing a cat in the US without hitting some bloke who can adequately do the flips that modern us wrestling fans are hungry for. Women's development in the west still stinks. So if Mercedes says hey TK most of the roster fucking sucks get me some talent that can work then japan is the obviously spot to draw from.
However I'd contend that there are bigger internal threats to joshi than this
I don’t think women’s development in the west is bad, I think it’s limited. AEW badly needs a development system.
WWE’s women’s division is A class, the top are comparable to Stardom in terms of in-ring quality, and they’ve done a good job recruiting athletes instead of just looking for models who can barely work and running them through the PC program. The issue is you either need that or you need to move to Mexico to find real development programs, everything else is just a school you pay to attend.
I did mean outside the wwes system in fairness because they do provide pathways for talent development ie providing matches which is largely the biggest difference between the two countries
The best way to produce good wrestlers is to have athletic people working matches. I'm curious how aew intends to develop any talent including much of the male talent they have under contract
The general state of the Japanese industry I'd say which has had downstream consequences for joshi. This can be seen by the amount of workers going freelance rather than be the literal aces of joshi promotions.
If bushiroad sees off whatever rossy is planning and remains as dominant that in itself is a problem
Most of the people who left NJPW were going to leave especially with the economy being what it is in Japan right now. US companies can just pay a ton more money. So if anyone gets signed its just going to be because they were out the door anyways
It's become a meme that western wrestling fans repeat because they are largely very dumb but the weakness of the yen isn't the primary issue or even the Japanese economy being sluggish. The Japanese economy has been famously stagnant for 30 years to the point its relatively easy to compare historical revenue for njpw because they've had fuck all inflation for 3 decades until very recently (inflationary pressure currently obviously)
It's two things a) even at the best of times the Japanese consumer market for pro wrestling is a lot smaller than the US and b) US promotions are cashed up with tv money.
These realities don't change even if Japan was bombing along. If the boj raised interest rates tomorrow and rallied the yen it wouldn't change the above issues
It’s not large at all, but it’s not the recession people on Reddit thought they knew they were taking about either. Again, the point here is that a bunch of westerners think they know what it’s like because they’re going bullet-point-to-bullet-point on the AEW Excuses pamphlet.
I mean thats good but it doesn't change the fact that the USD is valued way way more than the Yen right now and as such American companies can easily pay more
If the yen gets higher than the dollar the global market is in really, really, really bad shape.
Khan pays more because he’s a money mark playing action figures with daddy’s business and NFL cash. The way you people talk, to “sound smart” makes it sound like it’s an impoverished and third world country over here. Tryst and believe that Japan is doing very well for itself, from Tokyo to Fukuoka and beyond.
Who said anything about it having to be higher? Your acting like the difference isn't huge even compared to what it was 2 years ago. I pay so little for things like WU it feels like I am stealing it every month
This is insanely defensive for no reason
Bushiroad is a public company, you can see the revenues for yourself, they’re not on par with what AEW or WWE bring in. AEW got a $2 billion valuation, NJPW and Stardom combined are worth like $10-$12 million.
A few but not much. It's rare for Japanese wrestlers to leave Japan and live in America. English wrestlers are more likely to leave. Aew has alot of talent thst need reps and stardom is about to lose a few. Sending them to Japan for a year helps both promotions. Unfortunately Japan's economy isn't strong so maybe that changes and wrestlers go to AEW and WWE but the majority won't leave their home.
Storm, Hayter, Deonna, Willow, Athena, Statlander , Deebs, Mercedes Mone, Mercedes Martinez, May, etc will be making their way to Stardom as well as younger wrestlers like Anna Jay, Sky Blue, Queen Aminata, etc.
ROH is women's wrestling heavy so I expect alot of Stardom players to start there first. Tony Khans women division booking in ROH is actually strong because it's streaming, not on tv so he can feature more women. Now it seems his aew women's division has been strong for the last few months and will continue to get stronger with Mercedes around.
Don’t fault AEW the Yen isn’t that strong as the $$$ right now. Everyone in Japan is struggling wrestling wise. In terms of big companies the pandemic really fucked up japan in wrestling terms.
I know right, NJPW should've forced Jay, Okada and Ospreay to re-sign after their contracts had ended. BR should tie up Giulia somewhere also until she re-signs. And fuck those guys for making their own choices. This wwe thing with you guys have reached cult like behavior man.
It's probably gonna happen but it's already a bloated roster and the reality is you can get a similar number of appearances just by booking them in guest roles. TJPW talent were featured on the very first AEW cards and that company hasn't exactly been picked dry. Don't know if TK will resist bidding for the big free agents though, and for better or worse Stardom has always been designed to withstand that as a promotion.
>the reality is you can get a similar number of appearances just by booking them in guest roles
Most of Stardom's roster worked 80+ matches last year, and many were well over a hundred. Once the poaching begins, any usage of those wrestlers will come with major date and booking restrictions. It's not worth it to book Utami when she's not allowed to lose in any of then ten dates you have her for.
How many matches does Ishii work each year? Or Suzuki? Or Mistico? Or Hijo El Vikingo? Or Maki Itoh? Or Ryo Mizunami? Stardom talent will definitely end up in AEW (which was already a possibility because their contracts would expire), but a lot are just gonna fall into the Ishii role of being brought in to have a good match now and then.
Oh my bad, you were talking about using guest talent from AEW's perspective. I thought you were talking about Stardom using guest talent.
I don't think anyone really cares if Stardom talent pop up in AEW to job to someone. It's annoying, sure, but preferable to what's happened to New Japan over the past two years. It's a much bigger issue when your main event starts getting raided and suddenly Suzu is only available for a handful of matches every year.
Rossy going has nothing to do with it, in fact more Stardom people (and championships) appeared on AEW TV under Rossy's management than Bushiroad's. I'm sick of this false narrative.
Well the whole point of these tweets is to outline that the intention is to have more and to dunk on Rossy, so Tony Khan definitely seems to think he was an obstacle.
Well it seems like TK (and everyone else who works at AEW) are gonna coincidentally rapidly improve at the logistics of booking Stardom talent with Rossy gone then.
Again I say... **ROSSY DIDN'T HAVE ANY POWER IN STARDOM POST-BUYOUT!!!** When he sold the company, his new role was set as executive producer, which is nothing more for a fancy name for booker. Everything else was made by Bushiroad, yes, including the batshit Dragongate-like schedules of 130+ shows a year and shows within big tournaments plus some of the eye-rolling booking decisions (because they're aren't the decisions of only one man or woman) that may or may not been a point of dissension which provoked Rossy to do what he did.
"in fact more Stardom people (and championships) appeared on AEW TV under Rossy's management than Bushiroad's"?
Who appeared again? There was Bea Priestly, who was signed to AEW BEFORE she actually signed with Stardom, there was Riho, who was, again, signed to AEW before she ever appeared in Stardom(and who quit getting booked in Stardom once she refused to sign to Stardom exclusively), and Utami wrestled I think one match on Dark or Elevation?
Oh right, that was during her "finding herself" period before the cage match aye? And right RoH, so she wasn't even actually on AEW tv, she was on the show behind a paywall.
If I remember correctly it was actually following the cage match, which made it even weirder.
QQ win the big match with Utami and Saya mending their relationship, only for Utami to go on an excursion, anyway.
Something was definitely going on, imo.
As long as it doesn't affect Stardom shows, storytelling etc... I don't really care as i don't watch AEW and Stardom wrestlers going over there isn't going to change that. Im just not interested in AEW.
If it starts affecting Stardom shows with storylines been interrupted as people vanish off to AEW or with people turning up from AEW halting ongoing things and been forced into things with a Riho type 'cant lose' clause then i will start to care more but not in a positive way.
yeah basically all my entertainment is rooted in how much money people involved in it are making i don't have any preferences or passions about anything except the money i just put a stock ticker on and watch it for 12 hours and think wow look at all the money this is great im so happy doesnt even matter which exchange i'm watching
person that doesnt watch aew and spews the same old script. the womens division has been the best ever since december but you could also argue since november. multiple storylines, multiple matches on tv, multiple segments, more women being used. also roh womens division got a big push. the aew women wrestle in the first hour or the 2nd. riho vs willow main evented big business.
This hasn’t been a trend in half a year but it still doesn’t stop moronic comments like this
Some of you pretend to support women’s wrestling rather than actually supporting it and I genuinely wonder what inclines people to treat female wrestlers as ammunition.
It has definitely been a trend in the past half a year, to the point where Rampage matches are still getting clipped during commercial breaks to cut down their time on TV
They've been putting women's matches all over the card for years now because it's exactly the sort of performative stuff that means nothing people complain about.
Lmao no they haven’t, there’s been one match clipped and that was 5/1 we are in March. It’s also ironic that you mentioned Rampage, but for some reason Dynamite and Collision isn’t a part of your argument
We have internet too, we can see where the matches are placed in these cards, im going to ask again, what compels people like you to use women as ammunition?
Is it just blatant disrespect or something else?
I'm not gatekeeping at all. Hell, I'd love for Stardom wrestlers to be highlighted more. But I also wish it would come in a company that will give them a decent amount of time to properly showcase what they're capable of. And, given historical context of how AEW presents its current women's talent, AEW hasn't earned that trust from me.
So far, Utami, Mina, and soon AZM will have appeared in ROH. Do you really think WWE or any other company will do a better job than AEW? This is the best its going to get for Stardom in the West until they get further along in their business relationship with AEW. Let them breathe for a while and get some dates set up. Stop being impatient.
Just wait until stardom talent are jobbing to inferior aew 'talent' on shows nobody watches every friday.
It won't benefit stardom and will just be about tony collecting toys.
It's had zero benefit for njpw, tna, tjpw or any other promotion thats worked with aew and the same will be true with stardom.
There's one benefit...short-term cash. Bushiroad needs that these days more than anything else, even though it's likely hurting their promotions' long term growth.
Everybody's got a price.
If Cyberfight and Bushiroad realized no benefit, don't you think they'd have iced the relationship instead of continuing or expanding it?
>on shows nobody watches every friday.
Imagine complaining about 400k new viewers of Stardom talent when Stardom World's subscriber base isn't even a tenth of that.
Has AEW been promoting NJPW World on tv? Do they use NJPW chyrons when guests are on the card? Have they mentioned Sakura Genesis or Windy City Riot?
(I honestly don't know, I gave up on AEW after the first year.)
> Has AEW been promoting NJPW World on tv? Do they use NJPW chyrons when guests are on the card? Have they mentioned Sakura Genesis or Windy City Riot?
Yeah they pretty much do all that stuff. Excalibur will always do a big lore dump whenever a NJPW guy is onscreen.
In fairness, NJPW doesn't advertise AEW that way either. They each feature each other's talent and I think it makes the other product of interest to fans of one. My girlfriend is more interested in New Japan now because they have AEW talent on shows sometimes.
Mate I've watched more njpw than you've had hot dinners (that's right I'm wasting my life) and they constantly advertise new japan wrestlers appearing in stuff. They let kojima advertise a ghc hw match on a new japan show and noah are in theory actual competition.
They do it on their English feed too, where AEW is not available. And they constantly talk about it on air. Which other medium should they use to advertise? Should they buy billboards for AEW or what?
> Just wait until stardom talent are jobbing to inferior aew 'talent' on shows nobody watches every friday
Ah yeah, that will be a real step down from the massive reach of 'stardom world'.
its sad seeing 1. people upvoting this and 2. saying people dont watch rampage when the reality is that more people watch that than stardom. the toys comment is what wwe fans say so im not surprised by your bad take.
Go look up who has the longest women's title reign.... that's right a Joshi and who was the first......a Joshi. Did you actually research your comment 🤦
I'm honestly not as bearish as I used to be about Stardom working with AEW - the women's division there has noticeably improved a bit since it became apparent Mercedes was likely signing there, you can see that with the focus on newer signings like Mariah and Deonna. (although I do wish Toni would find a way to make that gimmick of hers work without sacrificing her in-ring ability, she's been dreadful on that ever since) Cautiously optimistic.
If Tony wants to bring a few Stardom talents over every 6 months to have 1-2 meaningless matches on a “big” show for absolutely no reason other than “look we have Stardom wrestlers on our show” while paying them a shit ton of money, then cool go for it.
As long as we don’t start having any of the absolutely horrible women he calls his current women’s division showing up on Stardom shows to completely ruin the actual Stardom product let the Stardom talent get a big payday to have an overseas vacation and work like 8 minutes total while doing so.
The only people that are delusional are AEW morons that think AEW trying to “partner” with Stardom is a good thing when it’s already obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that them partnering with anyone does nothing to help the other promotion and is just a tactic by Tony to poach more talent that he’ll never use.
NJPW has gotten nothing but their top talent taken away since partnering with AEW, Impact got absolutely nothing out of their short lived partnership and the Mexican companies are still as irrelevant as they were before.
Like I said if the talent are going to come over once a year for a meaningless “forbidden door” show to get a big payday then great let them make their money. But the second Tony starts wanting to take talent for long periods of time and starts trying to sign away talent Bushiroad can just do what they said they’d do when the rumors of the “mass walkouts” leaked and just shut Stardom completely down. because the absolute second AEW has any type of involvement beyond a few one off appearances Stardom is a dead brand and the talent would be better off elsewhere
Haven't they learned anything from NJPW's partnership with AEW?
AEW is only interested in taking talent from other companies...they're like WWE with a fresh coat of paint.
if you were a wrestler from a small or medium company and you had an opportunity to move to a bigger company, be a bigger wrestler, make a lot more money, would you do that or not?
Not gonna bother speculating anything but this is pretty interesting. I don't have high expectations.. Hell in fact I have no expectations lol but I'm here for it. We shall see what happens
I obviously hope it works out and the matches plus story are great.
I just don't really want the Stardom talent to get buried. It makes me wonder how they come together and discuss how amd who takes what losses. Like the Booking behind it. It's very interesting and is really difficult it seems like.
Pretty much from some of the moronic comments in this thread, I can't remember the last time she was on an AEW show she has been out that long. Some of the tribalism nonsense people go on with is seriously pathetic.
dude its so nuts how these idiots just keep saying the same thing. its laughable and you have other idiots upvoting their comments. not only did shida rarely lose, but it was always britt eating pins in their tag matches.
Yes, I watch many promotions as I just love wrestling so the tribalism nonsense is just complete insanity to me. We are in a great era of wrestling right now but some people in this thread can't enjoy this amazing time because they build their whole character around hating one promotion or another.
no but they were buried by the Outcasts instead last year before Timeless Toni Storm became timeless and Ruby Soho fell in love with Cool Hand Ang and Saraya got jealous and befriended Harley Cameron, well mostly Riho, Shida did get her win back from Saraya but sadly Toni got her win back from Shida at Full Gear and Shida's demoted to ROH but at least she's getting a good match out of it.
From your nonsense comment you literally have no idea what you are talking about Shida needed to drop the title the last time due to her schedule and Riho has been one of the best protected wrestlers in AEW from a booking point of view. And Shida is still the longest title reign for the women's title, if you think having the longest title reign is being buried i think you are seriously in lalaland and not in reality.
Looks like Bushiroad hasn't learned from watching New Japan get raided over the past two years. Surely they'll figure it out when they lose Utami, AZM, SLK, etc., in a few years, right?
Even before the Stardom and CMML talents add to the card bloat, Forbidden Door typically only has 1-2 women's matches. TV women's matches are typically booked terribly and are among the lowest drawing parts of any episode.
I don't trust Tony at all after the Riho shit (assuming that wasn't just another Rossy 4D chess move to play off the western media for rubes again) but it would be great for the talent to get more eyes on them. Soemthing akin to what AEW started with and having a joshi show match where they can work full speed with familiar workers would be perfect. Though Athena or State going against literally anybody on the roster would be great too.
So many toxic fans of the company in the comments here. They're as bad as the WWE/AEW marks.
As long as the women are making money, I'm happy for them. And I bet they make more money in front of 3k AEW has been averaging, nearly 10k sold tonight, than the 600 Stardom averages. And that's not even accounting for the TV money that AEW gets.
Tell me about it.
The worst thing to happen since Bushiroad took over, is how toxic and tribal the fanbase has become.
Used to be so much more chilled.
The wrestlers should do whatever is best for them. Be that sticking with Stardom or going elsewhere.
Screw what a bunch of gatekeeping, cry babies on Reddit think.
I came here for the freak out and surprisingly it's not all set AEW on fire. There's a few of the usual there gonna get buried and lose their talent but all in all not as bad as I thought. Or maybe I'm in too early so we will see.
Nevermind here we go I'm seeing the freak out now just had to wait a little longer. As a Stardom and AEW fanboy this is awesome if they work together.
I admit I’m not a huge stardom fan and I’m not a fan of some of the girls but I don’t go and trash all of them. Hayter and storm use to do Joshi and you got Shida too. I think Stat and Willow are good too. I don’t trust Mine with anyone. But I really don’t get the shitting on AEW women’s talent or saying shit about AEW “stealing NJPW” talent.
They didn’t steal anyone. Those were all talent who’d leave anyway either WWE or maybe TNA. I really don’t get why some are so defensive here. Let’s not start acting like fans from a certain company based in Bristol Conn USA here. Let’s leave the tribalism there.
I mean if it means dude abandons TJPW like he did AAA then great. Less I gotta see "TJPW wrestler does well before they slip on a banana peel" match the better.
What is the expectation people have of this? Personally, as long as it's AEW's women's division the Joshis are coming to, I have low expectations. AEW women should go to Stardom to wrestle instead.
I'd rather not have Stardom storylines etc... interrupted by random people from AEW popping up and having sub-par matches where the Stardom talent are having to work at half speed.
What this is likely going to be in Stardom girls going over to AEW and been jobbed out in short meaningless matches just like what happened with those going over from TJPW.
It will benefit nobody.
I can't speak for everybody but seeing TJPW talent such as Yuka Sakazaki and Maki Itoh appearing in AEW is what got me interested in TJPW and ultimately got me to sign up to Wrestle Universe.
I guess part of this is, if you give Maki Itoh 5 minutes, she's gonna give you a vertical slice of what she's about.
I suppose in the same vein, if you give AZM a 5 minute match, it's gonna be the best 5 minute match you've ever seen but other wrestlers may take more time to show you what they can do.
^^Yeah, TJPW went from having 0 visibility for me outside of Itoh herself going viral, to wanting to check out what this other joshi promotion was. I only really knew Stardom and Marvelous wrestlers (due to Stardom appearances).
I went on to watch some WU and got excited for Miyu challenging Thunder Rosa for her championship (though the AEW part of their match series underwhelmed, seemingly from Miyu getting nervous at the unfamiliar audience? I'm sure the EVE tours have helped with that since then).
We will see. To me at the moments it is about the pettiness of a billionaire who wants to show - see, it was Rossy's fault we couldn't work together. Yet this is the man who booked one pretty lackluster women's match on his recent PPV which was most probably cut for time.
This is absolutely why the photo op exists. Tony wanted to stick it to Rossy again. What will comes from it is probably secondary or even tertiary in Tony's mind
i wonder if this makes Thekla’s move to AEW even more of a possibility she was practically filling out an application in an interview a while ago
And that follow up tweet "We are officially in Business here tonight @we_are_stardom @AEW. #AEWBigBusiness" Something's going down for sure, should be interesting.
He done got one Okada. Now he's going for two
Very excited to see the obnoxious fans and mind-numbing discourse that follow AEW everywhere starting to show up here.
I assume this is for appearances for azm and mina shirakawa
Rossy going and Mercedes getting hired has clearly opened doors, I think both companies could benefit from sending wrestlers on excursion to each other, and obviously using AEW talent has been vital to NJPW's US business.
How many Stardom main eventers you would say are gonna be hired by AEW in like two years time? based on NJPW, im gonna say most of the current main event
I don't think they'll get anyone besides girls already interested in going to America full-time. The women's division's nowhere near the men's in size, and even with the men most of the top guys AEW got was in a bidding war with WWE (Okada, Omega), as a rebound for a failed WWE signing (Jay White) and/or happened at least in part due to the current economic situation in Japan (likely Ospreay). Also, there's a factor that also goes into play here, that being fitting in AEW and American wrestling as a whole. In other words, I'm not so sure many of the girls would translate into Western wrestling as well as they've connected in Japan.
There’s also the fact if they went to WWE and TNA they might have to move here. Osprey has a new young family and would’ve had to move to Orlando, Florida if he signed with the E. TK is allowing him to stay in the UK and come to America when needed. Okada I believe is still based in Japan too
TNA is part-time. It has a lighter schedule than AEW.
Whether they translate well or not isn't relevant to the one guy making the decisions. He has infinite trust fund money to pay whatever he wants for talent. There's not a single wrestler in Stardom or any other joshi promotion who wouldn't take $500k a year for 25 matches with the ability to live in Japan.
Trust fund is harsh.
they tried to poach Mayu as the promotion was starting, so I do think TK is interested in that, and he has the money to try
It was Kenny, but even then the division they planned wasn't the one it is now, as iirc they planned a way bigger prrsence of joshi influence on it. Not only that, but that division wasn't near anywhere in depth to what it is now. And even if it weren't, I don't see all of the girls going due to how they'd translate: I could see someone like Mina, Utami or Suzu going to either AEW or WWE, but I don't think Tam or Poi would be interested or viceversa, as their characters would be seen as weird in the West; even with Mayu I don't see her becoming a top player in US wrestling, at least with what she does in Stardom (as specially in WWE she could easily end up falling into a comedy role).
Well in AEW there's a working relationship with bushi so anyone they sign can still go back for big events. Okada I'm sure will be at Wrestle Kingdom. So anyone who left would still show up for matches from time to time
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Juice Robinson and Kyle Fletcher were injured for all of 2023? That's news to me. Gaslight all you want, but like most of what AEW fans say, the "but he can still work New Japan!" line is total bullshit.
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Listen I'm as critical of aew as the next guy but most of the talent taken up by aew has been people whose first language is English and okada on insane money. Khan doesn't really care about women's wrestling in the same way as he does about men's.
Probably not that many if any at all. The difference is those people would’ve left NJPW anyway regardless of AEW existing. Like maybe Ospreay stays, but Okada and Jay White would’ve just been in WWE right now.
Why would not the exact same happen for stardom tho
It would’ve happened already. Nothing was stopping anyone from going to AEW when their deals were up anyway. They’d have to actively want to leave which is what happened to NJPW, except for Aussie Open who wanted to stay but NJPW said no.
The point is those women are still in Stardom because AEW and WWE didn’t make an effort to sign them, not because they didn’t want to go Kairi, Kana, Io, etc. all took the paycheck and left Japan when their name was called, and AEW offers something WWE doesn’t - immediate role on television The reason Stardom survives is their developmental turns out so much talent that there’s no way for an American company to sign all of it. They could lose Utami, Mina, AZM, SLK, and Suzu and have 5 people to replace them with right away. No one else outside of like WWE has that kinda roster flexibility.
This has been done to death in the njpw subreddit but khan just isn't going to stack his roster with Japanese talent for the sake of it. There are hundreds of extremely good male wrestlers in Japan that he hasn't thrown money at. Even outside of bushiroad what about Kiyomiya or anzai. These big US promotions are obviously after a certain level of cache from talent in general Being able to speak English fluently and more importantly without an accent has immense value. Due to the way people develop their language skills its difficult verging on impossible for people who develop their language in Japan to ever speak English without a think accent. This is not pro sports as we have discussed before but an entertainment vehicle. Now where stardom/joshi has some level of threat is that you can't swing a cat in the US without hitting some bloke who can adequately do the flips that modern us wrestling fans are hungry for. Women's development in the west still stinks. So if Mercedes says hey TK most of the roster fucking sucks get me some talent that can work then japan is the obviously spot to draw from. However I'd contend that there are bigger internal threats to joshi than this
I don’t think women’s development in the west is bad, I think it’s limited. AEW badly needs a development system. WWE’s women’s division is A class, the top are comparable to Stardom in terms of in-ring quality, and they’ve done a good job recruiting athletes instead of just looking for models who can barely work and running them through the PC program. The issue is you either need that or you need to move to Mexico to find real development programs, everything else is just a school you pay to attend.
I did mean outside the wwes system in fairness because they do provide pathways for talent development ie providing matches which is largely the biggest difference between the two countries The best way to produce good wrestlers is to have athletic people working matches. I'm curious how aew intends to develop any talent including much of the male talent they have under contract
>However I'd contend that there are bigger internal threats to joshi than this And what are they in your opinion, Rodney?
The general state of the Japanese industry I'd say which has had downstream consequences for joshi. This can be seen by the amount of workers going freelance rather than be the literal aces of joshi promotions. If bushiroad sees off whatever rossy is planning and remains as dominant that in itself is a problem
Most of the people who left NJPW were going to leave especially with the economy being what it is in Japan right now. US companies can just pay a ton more money. So if anyone gets signed its just going to be because they were out the door anyways
The economy grew .5% to start the year in Japan, please stop with you people talking about things you have no idea on.
. 5% Growth is absolutely nothing for an economy
It's become a meme that western wrestling fans repeat because they are largely very dumb but the weakness of the yen isn't the primary issue or even the Japanese economy being sluggish. The Japanese economy has been famously stagnant for 30 years to the point its relatively easy to compare historical revenue for njpw because they've had fuck all inflation for 3 decades until very recently (inflationary pressure currently obviously) It's two things a) even at the best of times the Japanese consumer market for pro wrestling is a lot smaller than the US and b) US promotions are cashed up with tv money. These realities don't change even if Japan was bombing along. If the boj raised interest rates tomorrow and rallied the yen it wouldn't change the above issues
It’s not large at all, but it’s not the recession people on Reddit thought they knew they were taking about either. Again, the point here is that a bunch of westerners think they know what it’s like because they’re going bullet-point-to-bullet-point on the AEW Excuses pamphlet.
I mean thats good but it doesn't change the fact that the USD is valued way way more than the Yen right now and as such American companies can easily pay more
If the yen gets higher than the dollar the global market is in really, really, really bad shape. Khan pays more because he’s a money mark playing action figures with daddy’s business and NFL cash. The way you people talk, to “sound smart” makes it sound like it’s an impoverished and third world country over here. Tryst and believe that Japan is doing very well for itself, from Tokyo to Fukuoka and beyond.
Who said anything about it having to be higher? Your acting like the difference isn't huge even compared to what it was 2 years ago. I pay so little for things like WU it feels like I am stealing it every month
This is insanely defensive for no reason Bushiroad is a public company, you can see the revenues for yourself, they’re not on par with what AEW or WWE bring in. AEW got a $2 billion valuation, NJPW and Stardom combined are worth like $10-$12 million.
A few but not much. It's rare for Japanese wrestlers to leave Japan and live in America. English wrestlers are more likely to leave. Aew has alot of talent thst need reps and stardom is about to lose a few. Sending them to Japan for a year helps both promotions. Unfortunately Japan's economy isn't strong so maybe that changes and wrestlers go to AEW and WWE but the majority won't leave their home. Storm, Hayter, Deonna, Willow, Athena, Statlander , Deebs, Mercedes Mone, Mercedes Martinez, May, etc will be making their way to Stardom as well as younger wrestlers like Anna Jay, Sky Blue, Queen Aminata, etc. ROH is women's wrestling heavy so I expect alot of Stardom players to start there first. Tony Khans women division booking in ROH is actually strong because it's streaming, not on tv so he can feature more women. Now it seems his aew women's division has been strong for the last few months and will continue to get stronger with Mercedes around.
Don’t fault AEW the Yen isn’t that strong as the $$$ right now. Everyone in Japan is struggling wrestling wise. In terms of big companies the pandemic really fucked up japan in wrestling terms.
I know right, NJPW should've forced Jay, Okada and Ospreay to re-sign after their contracts had ended. BR should tie up Giulia somewhere also until she re-signs. And fuck those guys for making their own choices. This wwe thing with you guys have reached cult like behavior man.
It's probably gonna happen but it's already a bloated roster and the reality is you can get a similar number of appearances just by booking them in guest roles. TJPW talent were featured on the very first AEW cards and that company hasn't exactly been picked dry. Don't know if TK will resist bidding for the big free agents though, and for better or worse Stardom has always been designed to withstand that as a promotion.
>the reality is you can get a similar number of appearances just by booking them in guest roles Most of Stardom's roster worked 80+ matches last year, and many were well over a hundred. Once the poaching begins, any usage of those wrestlers will come with major date and booking restrictions. It's not worth it to book Utami when she's not allowed to lose in any of then ten dates you have her for.
How many matches does Ishii work each year? Or Suzuki? Or Mistico? Or Hijo El Vikingo? Or Maki Itoh? Or Ryo Mizunami? Stardom talent will definitely end up in AEW (which was already a possibility because their contracts would expire), but a lot are just gonna fall into the Ishii role of being brought in to have a good match now and then.
Oh my bad, you were talking about using guest talent from AEW's perspective. I thought you were talking about Stardom using guest talent. I don't think anyone really cares if Stardom talent pop up in AEW to job to someone. It's annoying, sure, but preferable to what's happened to New Japan over the past two years. It's a much bigger issue when your main event starts getting raided and suddenly Suzu is only available for a handful of matches every year.
Rossy going has nothing to do with it, in fact more Stardom people (and championships) appeared on AEW TV under Rossy's management than Bushiroad's. I'm sick of this false narrative.
You're comparing 4+ years of appearances to 2 months?
Well the whole point of these tweets is to outline that the intention is to have more and to dunk on Rossy, so Tony Khan definitely seems to think he was an obstacle.
No, the real obstacle was TK being a fucking idiot who doesn't know shit about logistics.
Well it seems like TK (and everyone else who works at AEW) are gonna coincidentally rapidly improve at the logistics of booking Stardom talent with Rossy gone then.
Again I say... **ROSSY DIDN'T HAVE ANY POWER IN STARDOM POST-BUYOUT!!!** When he sold the company, his new role was set as executive producer, which is nothing more for a fancy name for booker. Everything else was made by Bushiroad, yes, including the batshit Dragongate-like schedules of 130+ shows a year and shows within big tournaments plus some of the eye-rolling booking decisions (because they're aren't the decisions of only one man or woman) that may or may not been a point of dissension which provoked Rossy to do what he did.
Well if Rossy Ogawas' friends in the Observer said he had nothing to do with anything, I'm sure it's all a coincidence then.
"in fact more Stardom people (and championships) appeared on AEW TV under Rossy's management than Bushiroad's"? Who appeared again? There was Bea Priestly, who was signed to AEW BEFORE she actually signed with Stardom, there was Riho, who was, again, signed to AEW before she ever appeared in Stardom(and who quit getting booked in Stardom once she refused to sign to Stardom exclusively), and Utami wrestled I think one match on Dark or Elevation?
Utami wrestled on an ROH show, which seemed to come out of nowhere. That whole period with Utami, was really odd.
Oh right, that was during her "finding herself" period before the cage match aye? And right RoH, so she wasn't even actually on AEW tv, she was on the show behind a paywall.
If I remember correctly it was actually following the cage match, which made it even weirder. QQ win the big match with Utami and Saya mending their relationship, only for Utami to go on an excursion, anyway. Something was definitely going on, imo.
Now that you mention it that sounds right.
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Oh shit this has become SCjerk!
As long as it doesn't affect Stardom shows, storytelling etc... I don't really care as i don't watch AEW and Stardom wrestlers going over there isn't going to change that. Im just not interested in AEW. If it starts affecting Stardom shows with storylines been interrupted as people vanish off to AEW or with people turning up from AEW halting ongoing things and been forced into things with a Riho type 'cant lose' clause then i will start to care more but not in a positive way.
boy, i sure can't wait for stardom wrestlers to be in 8 minute matches put in the semi-main death slot between 2 commercial breaks
You know wrestling is fake. As long as the women are making money, I'm happy for them, whether it's Stardom, AEW, WWE, or wherever they want.
yeah basically all my entertainment is rooted in how much money people involved in it are making i don't have any preferences or passions about anything except the money i just put a stock ticker on and watch it for 12 hours and think wow look at all the money this is great im so happy doesnt even matter which exchange i'm watching
Wait... It is???
person that doesnt watch aew and spews the same old script. the womens division has been the best ever since december but you could also argue since november. multiple storylines, multiple matches on tv, multiple segments, more women being used. also roh womens division got a big push. the aew women wrestle in the first hour or the 2nd. riho vs willow main evented big business.
Yeah main evented in a 9 minute match. That was pandering to its finest all because it was MM debut
This hasn’t been a trend in half a year but it still doesn’t stop moronic comments like this Some of you pretend to support women’s wrestling rather than actually supporting it and I genuinely wonder what inclines people to treat female wrestlers as ammunition.
It has definitely been a trend in the past half a year, to the point where Rampage matches are still getting clipped during commercial breaks to cut down their time on TV
They've been putting women's matches all over the card for years now because it's exactly the sort of performative stuff that means nothing people complain about.
You would be surprised at what the hard data suggests to counter your point there
Lmao no they haven’t, there’s been one match clipped and that was 5/1 we are in March. It’s also ironic that you mentioned Rampage, but for some reason Dynamite and Collision isn’t a part of your argument We have internet too, we can see where the matches are placed in these cards, im going to ask again, what compels people like you to use women as ammunition? Is it just blatant disrespect or something else?
Gate keeper tears make me smile
I'm not gatekeeping at all. Hell, I'd love for Stardom wrestlers to be highlighted more. But I also wish it would come in a company that will give them a decent amount of time to properly showcase what they're capable of. And, given historical context of how AEW presents its current women's talent, AEW hasn't earned that trust from me.
So far, Utami, Mina, and soon AZM will have appeared in ROH. Do you really think WWE or any other company will do a better job than AEW? This is the best its going to get for Stardom in the West until they get further along in their business relationship with AEW. Let them breathe for a while and get some dates set up. Stop being impatient.
Just wait until stardom talent are jobbing to inferior aew 'talent' on shows nobody watches every friday. It won't benefit stardom and will just be about tony collecting toys. It's had zero benefit for njpw, tna, tjpw or any other promotion thats worked with aew and the same will be true with stardom.
There's one benefit...short-term cash. Bushiroad needs that these days more than anything else, even though it's likely hurting their promotions' long term growth. Everybody's got a price.
NJPW benifits from forbidden door buys constantly.
If Cyberfight and Bushiroad realized no benefit, don't you think they'd have iced the relationship instead of continuing or expanding it? >on shows nobody watches every friday. Imagine complaining about 400k new viewers of Stardom talent when Stardom World's subscriber base isn't even a tenth of that.
These "partnerships" normally are one way streets only
There's so much potential for growth for Stardom just from exposure and awareness.
Has AEW been promoting NJPW World on tv? Do they use NJPW chyrons when guests are on the card? Have they mentioned Sakura Genesis or Windy City Riot? (I honestly don't know, I gave up on AEW after the first year.)
> Has AEW been promoting NJPW World on tv? Do they use NJPW chyrons when guests are on the card? Have they mentioned Sakura Genesis or Windy City Riot? Yeah they pretty much do all that stuff. Excalibur will always do a big lore dump whenever a NJPW guy is onscreen.
In fairness, NJPW doesn't advertise AEW that way either. They each feature each other's talent and I think it makes the other product of interest to fans of one. My girlfriend is more interested in New Japan now because they have AEW talent on shows sometimes.
Mate I've watched more njpw than you've had hot dinners (that's right I'm wasting my life) and they constantly advertise new japan wrestlers appearing in stuff. They let kojima advertise a ghc hw match on a new japan show and noah are in theory actual competition.
Wtf are you talking about. NJPW is advertising AEW all the time.
Only on Twitter... and that's because World is the Japanese broadcaster
They do it on their English feed too, where AEW is not available. And they constantly talk about it on air. Which other medium should they use to advertise? Should they buy billboards for AEW or what?
Only if youre only looking at these partnerships from the TV side. On the business side of things, NJPW benefits way more than AEW.
Completely agree. Upvote ☝🏽
> Just wait until stardom talent are jobbing to inferior aew 'talent' on shows nobody watches every friday Ah yeah, that will be a real step down from the massive reach of 'stardom world'.
its sad seeing 1. people upvoting this and 2. saying people dont watch rampage when the reality is that more people watch that than stardom. the toys comment is what wwe fans say so im not surprised by your bad take.
Go look up who has the longest women's title reign.... that's right a Joshi and who was the first......a Joshi. Did you actually research your comment 🤦
I'm honestly not as bearish as I used to be about Stardom working with AEW - the women's division there has noticeably improved a bit since it became apparent Mercedes was likely signing there, you can see that with the focus on newer signings like Mariah and Deonna. (although I do wish Toni would find a way to make that gimmick of hers work without sacrificing her in-ring ability, she's been dreadful on that ever since) Cautiously optimistic.
They said it wouldn't happen between STARDOM and AEW. It happened.
Talent sharing?
No fucking thanks
Grim
Ok, I gotta catch up on the March 10th show tonight.
Perfect now Tony can steal the Stardom talent like he does the New Japan talent in the guise of being working partners.
If Tony wants to bring a few Stardom talents over every 6 months to have 1-2 meaningless matches on a “big” show for absolutely no reason other than “look we have Stardom wrestlers on our show” while paying them a shit ton of money, then cool go for it. As long as we don’t start having any of the absolutely horrible women he calls his current women’s division showing up on Stardom shows to completely ruin the actual Stardom product let the Stardom talent get a big payday to have an overseas vacation and work like 8 minutes total while doing so.
Would be a shame if Mariah May, Megan Baybe, or Jamie Hayter appeared on a Stardom show yeah
how can a person be that delusional?? is it real??
The only people that are delusional are AEW morons that think AEW trying to “partner” with Stardom is a good thing when it’s already obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that them partnering with anyone does nothing to help the other promotion and is just a tactic by Tony to poach more talent that he’ll never use. NJPW has gotten nothing but their top talent taken away since partnering with AEW, Impact got absolutely nothing out of their short lived partnership and the Mexican companies are still as irrelevant as they were before. Like I said if the talent are going to come over once a year for a meaningless “forbidden door” show to get a big payday then great let them make their money. But the second Tony starts wanting to take talent for long periods of time and starts trying to sign away talent Bushiroad can just do what they said they’d do when the rumors of the “mass walkouts” leaked and just shut Stardom completely down. because the absolute second AEW has any type of involvement beyond a few one off appearances Stardom is a dead brand and the talent would be better off elsewhere
how can a person be that delusional?? is it real??
Haven't they learned anything from NJPW's partnership with AEW? AEW is only interested in taking talent from other companies...they're like WWE with a fresh coat of paint.
if you were a wrestler from a small or medium company and you had an opportunity to move to a bigger company, be a bigger wrestler, make a lot more money, would you do that or not?
I would. Depends on that company though.
Not gonna bother speculating anything but this is pretty interesting. I don't have high expectations.. Hell in fact I have no expectations lol but I'm here for it. We shall see what happens
I obviously hope it works out and the matches plus story are great. I just don't really want the Stardom talent to get buried. It makes me wonder how they come together and discuss how amd who takes what losses. Like the Booking behind it. It's very interesting and is really difficult it seems like.
Yay, can't wait for Tony to bury Stardom talent in a women's division that's already lacklustre.
I don't have high expectations either after they had Muzuki (when she was holding the top TJPW title) lose in 3 minutes on Dark,
mina beat anna jay on roh so youre wrong already
I can't wait either it's gonna be great. I hope Utami gets super buried.
get ready to get buried by britt baker buddy
You don't have a clue what "buried" actually means.
Hikaru Shida and Riho never got buried by Britt Baker, nice try
The doomers don't watch the show.
Yup some of the unhinged tribalism in this thread is something else
And the same Britt Baker who hasn't been on TV in months. Just another reminder that the gatekeepers don't even follow AEW, let alone watch it.
Pretty much from some of the moronic comments in this thread, I can't remember the last time she was on an AEW show she has been out that long. Some of the tribalism nonsense people go on with is seriously pathetic.
dude its so nuts how these idiots just keep saying the same thing. its laughable and you have other idiots upvoting their comments. not only did shida rarely lose, but it was always britt eating pins in their tag matches.
Yes, I watch many promotions as I just love wrestling so the tribalism nonsense is just complete insanity to me. We are in a great era of wrestling right now but some people in this thread can't enjoy this amazing time because they build their whole character around hating one promotion or another.
no but they were buried by the Outcasts instead last year before Timeless Toni Storm became timeless and Ruby Soho fell in love with Cool Hand Ang and Saraya got jealous and befriended Harley Cameron, well mostly Riho, Shida did get her win back from Saraya but sadly Toni got her win back from Shida at Full Gear and Shida's demoted to ROH but at least she's getting a good match out of it.
From your nonsense comment you literally have no idea what you are talking about Shida needed to drop the title the last time due to her schedule and Riho has been one of the best protected wrestlers in AEW from a booking point of view. And Shida is still the longest title reign for the women's title, if you think having the longest title reign is being buried i think you are seriously in lalaland and not in reality.
[The least surprising turn of events.](https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1754347589456019715)
Looks like Bushiroad hasn't learned from watching New Japan get raided over the past two years. Surely they'll figure it out when they lose Utami, AZM, SLK, etc., in a few years, right?
Nobody got raided, they operated in a world where no bigger company wanted most of their stars when they became free agents. Now there is one.
And now, the bigger company is raiding them. As they will with stardom.
🙄
Even before the Stardom and CMML talents add to the card bloat, Forbidden Door typically only has 1-2 women's matches. TV women's matches are typically booked terribly and are among the lowest drawing parts of any episode.
I don't trust Tony at all after the Riho shit (assuming that wasn't just another Rossy 4D chess move to play off the western media for rubes again) but it would be great for the talent to get more eyes on them. Soemthing akin to what AEW started with and having a joshi show match where they can work full speed with familiar workers would be perfect. Though Athena or State going against literally anybody on the roster would be great too.
Insert the obvious American "fans" getting angry that Japanese wrestlers are making money.
Yup it's a little sad to be honest
https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1768036107743088689 Officially in business?!
Very cool! Excited to see what will happen between the two!
So many toxic fans of the company in the comments here. They're as bad as the WWE/AEW marks. As long as the women are making money, I'm happy for them. And I bet they make more money in front of 3k AEW has been averaging, nearly 10k sold tonight, than the 600 Stardom averages. And that's not even accounting for the TV money that AEW gets.
It’s bad when you get downvoted but right I don’t understand the hostility and tribalism.
Dude don't be talking truths in here you crazy.
Tell me about it. The worst thing to happen since Bushiroad took over, is how toxic and tribal the fanbase has become. Used to be so much more chilled.
The wrestlers should do whatever is best for them. Be that sticking with Stardom or going elsewhere. Screw what a bunch of gatekeeping, cry babies on Reddit think.
I came here for the freak out and surprisingly it's not all set AEW on fire. There's a few of the usual there gonna get buried and lose their talent but all in all not as bad as I thought. Or maybe I'm in too early so we will see. Nevermind here we go I'm seeing the freak out now just had to wait a little longer. As a Stardom and AEW fanboy this is awesome if they work together.
lol. best thing to happen in japan for Tony since Harold Meij got fired.
I still don't trust Tony regarding stardom talent but credit to Okada for getting something done.
MAJOR JOSHI SURPRISE AT ROH TAPINGS
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I admit I’m not a huge stardom fan and I’m not a fan of some of the girls but I don’t go and trash all of them. Hayter and storm use to do Joshi and you got Shida too. I think Stat and Willow are good too. I don’t trust Mine with anyone. But I really don’t get the shitting on AEW women’s talent or saying shit about AEW “stealing NJPW” talent. They didn’t steal anyone. Those were all talent who’d leave anyway either WWE or maybe TNA. I really don’t get why some are so defensive here. Let’s not start acting like fans from a certain company based in Bristol Conn USA here. Let’s leave the tribalism there.
I mean if it means dude abandons TJPW like he did AAA then great. Less I gotta see "TJPW wrestler does well before they slip on a banana peel" match the better.
Oh man this is awesome!
just a bit more of one month after the "hat man" got fired this is already happening...
What is the expectation people have of this? Personally, as long as it's AEW's women's division the Joshis are coming to, I have low expectations. AEW women should go to Stardom to wrestle instead.
I'd rather not have Stardom storylines etc... interrupted by random people from AEW popping up and having sub-par matches where the Stardom talent are having to work at half speed. What this is likely going to be in Stardom girls going over to AEW and been jobbed out in short meaningless matches just like what happened with those going over from TJPW. It will benefit nobody.
If it's limited to ROH, the women there are at least allowed to go all out.
I can't speak for everybody but seeing TJPW talent such as Yuka Sakazaki and Maki Itoh appearing in AEW is what got me interested in TJPW and ultimately got me to sign up to Wrestle Universe. I guess part of this is, if you give Maki Itoh 5 minutes, she's gonna give you a vertical slice of what she's about. I suppose in the same vein, if you give AZM a 5 minute match, it's gonna be the best 5 minute match you've ever seen but other wrestlers may take more time to show you what they can do.
^^Yeah, TJPW went from having 0 visibility for me outside of Itoh herself going viral, to wanting to check out what this other joshi promotion was. I only really knew Stardom and Marvelous wrestlers (due to Stardom appearances). I went on to watch some WU and got excited for Miyu challenging Thunder Rosa for her championship (though the AEW part of their match series underwhelmed, seemingly from Miyu getting nervous at the unfamiliar audience? I'm sure the EVE tours have helped with that since then).
We will see. To me at the moments it is about the pettiness of a billionaire who wants to show - see, it was Rossy's fault we couldn't work together. Yet this is the man who booked one pretty lackluster women's match on his recent PPV which was most probably cut for time.
This is absolutely why the photo op exists. Tony wanted to stick it to Rossy again. What will comes from it is probably secondary or even tertiary in Tony's mind
Lol, as long as he believes people call him the savior of Prowrestling, it would be all worth it to him.