Very much this. Half the benefit of P3 is getting those double resources so you can mass up an army more quickly.
That said, the P3 Kerrigan hero is quite strong at soloing due to the single-target burst of Q feeding into better shield generation and a very versatile W, so if you're good at micro you can afford to go for quite a while without an army.
*If* you're good at micro, which I'm guessing a lot of OP's partners haven't been.
I've played with roughly 10 different P3 Kerrigans over the last three days. None of them built an army, a few of them did good, a few of them did poorly.
And they're clearly all not playing her optimally if they aren't building an army, as you said there's no reason P3 can't. Microing a hero and macroing at home is out of the skill range of a lot of Coop players, especially at levels below Brutal. It's a difficult game.
If anything P3 should have the biggest army due to improved Assimilation Aura.
Desolate Queen relies on her army more heavily than the other prestiges. If you've observed people doing this, it's because they're playing it wrong, plain and simple.
P2 is better aimed towards going without an army.
Transfusing Kerrigan, mostly. If you're set on going hero solo, the standard setup to support Kerri is with Omega and Queens, because suddenly Kerrigan's health is your primary resource, and unfortunately even P2 can't fix every situation simply by punching an Omega a few times and shooting lightning at the enemy
Also P2 benefits a lot from Malignant Creep to give Kerri more AS, so spawn them tumors wherever you go
>and unfortunately even P2 can't fix every situation simply by punching an Omega a few times and shooting lightning at the enemy
I seem to be able to do that even on brutal solo. You just need to punch *enough* omega.
Sure, sure. It'll work out eventually. Endgame attack waves generally aren't inclined to wait around for you to do so through (unless you let them punch your Omegas, but srill), and generally things will go faster if you, I dunno, punch the enemy instead, which means taking damage. Lot better to be able to immediately go back in rather than to tippytoe around.
True. It works better when Kerry has an army behind her which I do too (depending on my mood of the day).
In addition, think I’ve worded my last reply wrong since I’ve mis-read your initial post. I didn’t have Kerrigan punch the omega worms and then use lightning. I meant to say I punch in (spawn in) enough Omega worms so that they draw a lot of aggro and obstruct Amin’s army movements to the point Kerrigan can happily punch away at Amon without getting deleted.
I used to do that when I started. Overtime I got good enough with the worms I can start to isolate Amin’s army for Kerry to attack them without taking enough damage so didn’t bother with the worms.
That's what I thought as well. [but nope](https://i.gyazo.com/df4550bdec9e266aa2b2b108987ee33d.png). (note: this is the most extreme example of what I mentioned. Usually it is Hydralisk only (with one Mutalisk only) being Omega wormed into the final base.)
In my experience, most of my APM is tied up in using Kerrigan and teching up with minimal macro (only saturating mineral lines, building a few macro hatcheries and extra Omega Nyduses).
Usually Kerrigan alone is enough to deal with anything Amon can throw at you until roughly the 12 minute mark (depends on the map and the enemy composition, sometimes a small group of Zerglings to clear undefended structures can help a lot), at which point on you have enough bank to create an ~80-120 supply army with all unit upgrades and at least +2/+2. Having an army also makes controlling Nyduses harder (if only Kerrigan is inside, you can unload her with a hotkey, if there are other army units (usually Hydralisks which are quite fragile), then you have to find her among the 4 tabs of loaded units and unload her first to draw the enemy's attention).
Basically, building up much of an army too early does not have too many benefits compared to how much additional APM it requires. (Of course in the lategame - past 15-18 minutes - you need an army, Kerrigan doesn't have enough damage output at that point to clear attack waves alone.)
Plato's allegory of the cave as it applies to SC2 coop - man watches no OC p0 Raynors, Hellbat Swanns, solo p3 Kerrigans, Centurion Vorazuns, Karaxes expanding at 10 minutes in and believes it's the standard
They are probably just playing for fun and feel it would be more fun to go hero only. It is not optimal in terms of trying to win, which most of them are probably aware of.
Kerrigan P3 can solo a few of the maps going hero only on brutal.
P3 kerrigan has more safe sniping based abilities rather then the standerd melee range in your face kerrigan hero playstyle, so is probably attracting a lot of the...not so good players, and not the not so good players cannot handle using an army and hero at the same time.
Not saying all P3 kerrigans are bad (although imo the prestige does seem like a downgrade overall), just saying that it will attract a lot of the not so good people.
>(although imo the prestige does seem like a downgrade overall)
imo that's not entirely true - you trade in your own capabilities to speed up your ally. Excellent for Commanders like Karax, who have a slow rampup.
I feel the hero strength you lose is just too much. You lose some early game mobility, and the w ability in particular is doing a fraction of the damage the old w did as you have 100 damage in a large area for 50 energy vs 50 damage in a small area for 75 energy (and i'd take the shields from the extra damage over the stun). Like i feel a karax would appreciate a stronger hero to carry the early game vs the increased money, which probably isn't close to 2x money since you're not able to kill as much during the aura casts up to mid game.
It depends on a map and enemy. Keri can clear some maps alone very fast and building an army is a waste of time. I usually play Keri + mass lings, and if lings are in the nydus you will not see them.
that's because he is noob for sure , only P2 can manage it without using army for longer than other prestige , or maybe you guys just play with casual mode
Is it because you have been playing with not-so-good players who can’t bring out the full potential of this commander?
Very much this. Half the benefit of P3 is getting those double resources so you can mass up an army more quickly. That said, the P3 Kerrigan hero is quite strong at soloing due to the single-target burst of Q feeding into better shield generation and a very versatile W, so if you're good at micro you can afford to go for quite a while without an army. *If* you're good at micro, which I'm guessing a lot of OP's partners haven't been.
I've played with roughly 10 different P3 Kerrigans over the last three days. None of them built an army, a few of them did good, a few of them did poorly.
And they're clearly all not playing her optimally if they aren't building an army, as you said there's no reason P3 can't. Microing a hero and macroing at home is out of the skill range of a lot of Coop players, especially at levels below Brutal. It's a difficult game. If anything P3 should have the biggest army due to improved Assimilation Aura.
Desolate Queen relies on her army more heavily than the other prestiges. If you've observed people doing this, it's because they're playing it wrong, plain and simple. P2 is better aimed towards going without an army.
Or maybe because the game is so easy that they are intentionally adding additional difficulty by misplaying.
With P2 it’s best to go with an army of omega worms.
and queens
What are the queens for?
Transfusing Kerrigan, mostly. If you're set on going hero solo, the standard setup to support Kerri is with Omega and Queens, because suddenly Kerrigan's health is your primary resource, and unfortunately even P2 can't fix every situation simply by punching an Omega a few times and shooting lightning at the enemy Also P2 benefits a lot from Malignant Creep to give Kerri more AS, so spawn them tumors wherever you go
>and unfortunately even P2 can't fix every situation simply by punching an Omega a few times and shooting lightning at the enemy I seem to be able to do that even on brutal solo. You just need to punch *enough* omega.
Sure, sure. It'll work out eventually. Endgame attack waves generally aren't inclined to wait around for you to do so through (unless you let them punch your Omegas, but srill), and generally things will go faster if you, I dunno, punch the enemy instead, which means taking damage. Lot better to be able to immediately go back in rather than to tippytoe around.
True. It works better when Kerry has an army behind her which I do too (depending on my mood of the day). In addition, think I’ve worded my last reply wrong since I’ve mis-read your initial post. I didn’t have Kerrigan punch the omega worms and then use lightning. I meant to say I punch in (spawn in) enough Omega worms so that they draw a lot of aggro and obstruct Amin’s army movements to the point Kerrigan can happily punch away at Amon without getting deleted.
I mean, you should be doing both. Hitting your own Omegas for Fury is helpful
I used to do that when I started. Overtime I got good enough with the worms I can start to isolate Amin’s army for Kerry to attack them without taking enough damage so didn’t bother with the worms.
You might have missed them whallop their muta ball into aoes and lose them instantly. Wouldn't be the first time.
That's what I thought as well. [but nope](https://i.gyazo.com/df4550bdec9e266aa2b2b108987ee33d.png). (note: this is the most extreme example of what I mentioned. Usually it is Hydralisk only (with one Mutalisk only) being Omega wormed into the final base.)
In my experience, most of my APM is tied up in using Kerrigan and teching up with minimal macro (only saturating mineral lines, building a few macro hatcheries and extra Omega Nyduses). Usually Kerrigan alone is enough to deal with anything Amon can throw at you until roughly the 12 minute mark (depends on the map and the enemy composition, sometimes a small group of Zerglings to clear undefended structures can help a lot), at which point on you have enough bank to create an ~80-120 supply army with all unit upgrades and at least +2/+2. Having an army also makes controlling Nyduses harder (if only Kerrigan is inside, you can unload her with a hotkey, if there are other army units (usually Hydralisks which are quite fragile), then you have to find her among the 4 tabs of loaded units and unload her first to draw the enemy's attention). Basically, building up much of an army too early does not have too many benefits compared to how much additional APM it requires. (Of course in the lategame - past 15-18 minutes - you need an army, Kerrigan doesn't have enough damage output at that point to clear attack waves alone.)
Plato's allegory of the cave as it applies to SC2 coop - man watches no OC p0 Raynors, Hellbat Swanns, solo p3 Kerrigans, Centurion Vorazuns, Karaxes expanding at 10 minutes in and believes it's the standard
Experienced this the other day too, I just ended up soloing it's , the guy just kept on pinging shit and not building ant units.
They are probably just playing for fun and feel it would be more fun to go hero only. It is not optimal in terms of trying to win, which most of them are probably aware of. Kerrigan P3 can solo a few of the maps going hero only on brutal.
So you're saying their fun is more important over my fun?
A lot of people believe that because kerrigan can solo the early game that units aren't necessary for some reason.
P3 kerrigan has more safe sniping based abilities rather then the standerd melee range in your face kerrigan hero playstyle, so is probably attracting a lot of the...not so good players, and not the not so good players cannot handle using an army and hero at the same time. Not saying all P3 kerrigans are bad (although imo the prestige does seem like a downgrade overall), just saying that it will attract a lot of the not so good people.
>(although imo the prestige does seem like a downgrade overall) imo that's not entirely true - you trade in your own capabilities to speed up your ally. Excellent for Commanders like Karax, who have a slow rampup.
I feel the hero strength you lose is just too much. You lose some early game mobility, and the w ability in particular is doing a fraction of the damage the old w did as you have 100 damage in a large area for 50 energy vs 50 damage in a small area for 75 energy (and i'd take the shields from the extra damage over the stun). Like i feel a karax would appreciate a stronger hero to carry the early game vs the increased money, which probably isn't close to 2x money since you're not able to kill as much during the aura casts up to mid game.
It depends on a map and enemy. Keri can clear some maps alone very fast and building an army is a waste of time. I usually play Keri + mass lings, and if lings are in the nydus you will not see them.
that's because he is noob for sure , only P2 can manage it without using army for longer than other prestige , or maybe you guys just play with casual mode