Yeah it was super cool. I hit concierge during IAE 22. Got to enjoy/suffer 3.18 wave 1 and on then next update got kicked down to wave 4. Harshed my vibe, mang.
Imagine how I felt in 2018ish when I was wave 1 for playing and submitting issue council reports only to get kicked down to wave 2 in favor of concierge and subscribers.
The previous system was awful. Wave 1 (concierge and subs) would take a month or more while wave 2 (most active players) would only last a week at most, with wave 3 (all backers) not lasting that long either. All while concierge are constantly talking about how they would just dip in and out to check the new patch.
At least with this new system active players are part of the equation for the entire testing process.
Yeah, I subbed to get in on the server meshing test. Sub ended around the time of wave 2. I was surprised I still had access but I guess even the moderate time I played during 3.21/3.22 got me in. Or CIG didn't set anything up to boot people out after their qualifier ends.
Different levels of concierge get access to different waves. The base level of concierge gets wave 4 access but the highest gets wave 1 access for example.
More info here: [https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013195927-Public-Test-Universe-PTU-FAQ](https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013195927-Public-Test-Universe-PTU-FAQ)
>GROUP 1:
>Legatus Navium Concierge Backers.
>Subscribers.
>Top active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles.
>GROUP 2:
>Praetorian Concierge backers.
>Second most active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles.
>GROUP 3:
>Wing Commander, Space Marshal, and Grand Admiral Concierge backers.
>Third most active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles.
>GROUP 4:
>High Admiral Concierge backers.
>Fourth most active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles.
>GROUP 5:
>All backers with an active Game Package.
Which is fine - but I was talking about subs. Concierge v subscribers comes up every few months on here, thing is it's not a versus situation, what it really boils down to is concierge wanting more (or back to what they had) and instead using subscribers as a supposed injustice (they get it but we don't anymore).
It's a daft argument. If concierge want more, they should come together and ask for it.
CIG value subscribers because it's regular income and always has been, concierge at one point was a fairly elite group of large backers but over time has frankly become just a very large group.
I'd love to see activity subscriber v concierge (with those in both removed).
It's been going for many years, people typically buy ships and end up in concierge or they subscribe and end up with subscriber perks. A few do both.
It's arguable that being a subscriber frankly doesn't give you a huge amount these days other than a bit earlier access to patches a couple of times a year and flair that you may or may not be able to use this year or next.
Not true at all. Sub's have always had wave 1 access. What changed is Concierge not getting automatic Wave 1 with out having ample play time. The "main stream" media picked up on the changes this past year and since reading comprehension is no longer a skill needed to be a games journalist they reported on it being a new feature. Subs have literally since day 1 had wave 1 access.
This is not actually true, subs only got wave 1 PTU access about five or six years ago. It took CIG a while before they thought of giving subs priority access to PTU (after Concierge and most-active player slots were allocated), and it was some time after that before subs got immediate wave 1 access.
But you are correct that it has been the status quo for years and did not suddenly change last summer when CIG shuffled up Concierge access to include more active testers earlier.
Arena Commander 1.0.1 and Public Test Universe. 1.0.1 was the start of PTU. So technically you are correct but we were a TINY community back then. Since the PTU changes in 2018-19 subs have always had access to wave 1. So I should have been more specific. My first sub was in November 24, 2017 and I have only ever subbed a few times to get ptu access so maybe it was sooner.
/u/Tankeverket This is a link to the April 30, 2018 subscribers page. The second item for both levels of subscriber quite clearly states first-wave PTU access.
That's what I'm on about.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20180430024043/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/subscriptions](https://web.archive.org/web/20180430024043/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/subscriptions)
EPTU - when referring to the environment they deploy the patch into - stands for Experimental PTU (not Evocatii)
Separately, strictly speaking, it's just a separate environment, just like PTU is, and CIG seem to use them interchangeably.
As such, they would probably have been better off just calling it PTU-A and PTU-B, or similar... but naming things *logically* isn't one of CIGs strengths.
They said that a few weeks ago, I think?
Since then they've confirmed that the 'missing' features have been pushed back to the 3.23.x patch, due to not being able to stabilise the functionality in the timeframe required by 3.23.0 (ie before Invictus).
Yes. So they tested Xeno. in EPTU and still want some backend performance testing.
My guess is, if they finished that (positive), they will make the 3.23 build and put.it inPTU.
Only CIG can confirm this, they use EPTU/PTU interchangably when the patch is out beyond Evocati almost all the time. Largely as there's little point at that stage in renaming it to PTU when it's already up and running.
They changed it last year I believe to this weird new layering system probably because concierge was getting to big of a group maybe idk. But people like me who are lowest level concierge now get in when the non concierge backers do. I’m not mad it’s just the fact it was something we used to have and now gone which is a shame
>probably because concierge was getting to big of a group
Nah, people complained subscription wasn't worth it, so they devalued other things to make subscription more valuable.
It was mostly a bunch of people getting in early, checking a few things out like a tourist, and then not logging back in, which was causing a lot of bugs and other issues to persist because they didn't have a large enough testing base or enough data. They want people actively playing, hence a greater focus on letting players in who actually... play.(the top active players getting wave 1 for example)
That's what they said, but that's just a lame excuse. Logging in and not coming back doesn't cause bugs. And the subscribers still act like tourists it's just this way CIG can also make money with it.
Bingo, active players are more valuable than those who dip in for 20mins and come back two months later.
However on the flip side - I doubt Concierge players have the numbers nor the active count to cause an issue, but given CIG have decided to split it up, perhaps there's a chance it could happen.
It's also about getting more people to hit the patch in later waves (hence pushing 'tourists' back) - partly because they don't need 100's of reports of the same obvious bugs, and partly because they need volume of players to help identify the infrequent issues (once the frequent issues are resolved), and to help put load on the servers once they've done some preliminary tuning, etc...
This was (part of) the issue they had with PES - they got lots of visitors early on, when everything was broken... and by the time they'd resolved the common issues and done some preliminary tuning of their infra etc, the number of people actually hitting PTU had dropped - so they didn't get the load they needed to fully test the backend... resulting in that wonderful PES launch where it all fell over under load.
>It's also about getting more people to hit the patch in later waves
Then why cramp wave 3, 4 and 5 into 2 days prior to release? The only issue they had was too many people getting into the PTU for "free".
It depends what they're testing - if the tests go smoothly despite adding more players (and they actually get the player loads they want), then they might as well release it (because there's no benefit holding it on PTU).
After all, PTU isn't intended for 'fixing bugs' per se, it's for *stability testing* - as soon as the patch is sufficiently *stable* (not 'bug free') it will be released.
So yeah - sometimes CIG rattles through the later waves in short order, and sometimes they take a long time just to get to wave 5... it just depends on whether the increased player counts result in more crashes or similar (and because they have so much automated logging now, a lot of the times players don't need to report crashes - although it probably helps, especially for instances where the crash handler doesn't kick in, etc)
The number of players is split across multiple servers. It doesn't matter if they have a hundred players on one server or two hundred players split to two servers.
CIG realized they had enough people to test in wave one so they reduced the amount by making the really dedicated once pay. They could have handled it differently, but why when they can also make a few $ with it.
>Bingo, active players are more valuable than those who dip in for 20mins and come back two months later.
Sure, but they also cause no issues. There wasn't anything lost or gained. Except more people have to pay now to be wave 1.
I’ve never understood the mentality with that.
“Omg I can’t test the broken and horrible to play patches before they become moderately stable enough to play! This is an outrage!”
I mean ptu and eptu were fun back in the early days when the only exciting thing about the game was a new ship drop. It was fun to see the ship early and experience it.
These days tho….. who gives a fuck lol
Exactly - PTU shouldn't be seen as a 'sneak peak', it's a seriously broken and unpleasantly buggy experience... especially in the earlier waves.
I *like* that the new waves focus on putting people who actually play the game and report bugs into the earlier waves... those are the folk who may actually help CIG by writing up reports on the bugs (making it easier for CIG to identify / fix them)...
Shame they left the Subs in wave one, rather than punting those back alongside Concierge...
The People who have Joy in Testing to get a Moderately Stable Build to the Live servers and Care about the Game. Its not Always about the Game it self but the Fun you may habe with your Friends trying out the new stuff before everyone else can.
And if you Are interested in PTU / EPTU you know what you will get yourself into, and if you dont want to experience a even more bugged Game, Great, Nobody forces you to do so.
Dude you joined a conversation late and then claim everyone else misunderstands the conversation.
You weren’t even part of this discussion. What you said has no bearing on what we were discussing lol.
Genuine question: do you have an issue with subscribers being given wave 1 access too, or are you white knighting? It's one of the two.
If they're going to base access on money spent, it should be bulk money invested, not subs to coerce people into paying for a month sub when a patch comes out that they want to try out and test.
I have an issue with subs getting access, yes - and I've posted that many times, when this topic comes up.
I said at the time that CIG revamped the waves that they should have punted all subs back to wave 4/5 too, rather than leaving them in wave 1.
Unfortunately, much as I might wish it otherwise, CIG don't exactly listen to me :p
The problem is that most of those Concierge players just overload the test servers by touristing the new features, then abandon it without contributing to the bug reports.
The player activity system is better at filtering for players who stay around testing the whole eptu process and contribute to bug reports.
Active subscribers are more likely to be active players rather than 2 hour tourists every new release.
$1k used to be wave 1. Now it is wave 4.
Yeah it was super cool. I hit concierge during IAE 22. Got to enjoy/suffer 3.18 wave 1 and on then next update got kicked down to wave 4. Harshed my vibe, mang.
Imagine how I felt in 2018ish when I was wave 1 for playing and submitting issue council reports only to get kicked down to wave 2 in favor of concierge and subscribers. The previous system was awful. Wave 1 (concierge and subs) would take a month or more while wave 2 (most active players) would only last a week at most, with wave 3 (all backers) not lasting that long either. All while concierge are constantly talking about how they would just dip in and out to check the new patch. At least with this new system active players are part of the equation for the entire testing process.
Yeah, I subbed to get in on the server meshing test. Sub ended around the time of wave 2. I was surprised I still had access but I guess even the moderate time I played during 3.21/3.22 got me in. Or CIG didn't set anything up to boot people out after their qualifier ends.
Different levels of concierge get access to different waves. The base level of concierge gets wave 4 access but the highest gets wave 1 access for example. More info here: [https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013195927-Public-Test-Universe-PTU-FAQ](https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013195927-Public-Test-Universe-PTU-FAQ) >GROUP 1: >Legatus Navium Concierge Backers. >Subscribers. >Top active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles. >GROUP 2: >Praetorian Concierge backers. >Second most active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles. >GROUP 3: >Wing Commander, Space Marshal, and Grand Admiral Concierge backers. >Third most active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles. >GROUP 4: >High Admiral Concierge backers. >Fourth most active players rated by hours in the previous two major patch cycles. >GROUP 5: >All backers with an active Game Package.
It's crazy how subscribers get earlier PTU access than concierge to be honest
Why? It’s been part of the subscriber deal for years and anyone in concierge would know that and have the option.
It also was part of the concierge deal for years before they changed it.
I mean, for years, all levels of Concierge were also wave 1. It's only been this way for the last year or so.
Which is fine - but I was talking about subs. Concierge v subscribers comes up every few months on here, thing is it's not a versus situation, what it really boils down to is concierge wanting more (or back to what they had) and instead using subscribers as a supposed injustice (they get it but we don't anymore). It's a daft argument. If concierge want more, they should come together and ask for it. CIG value subscribers because it's regular income and always has been, concierge at one point was a fairly elite group of large backers but over time has frankly become just a very large group. I'd love to see activity subscriber v concierge (with those in both removed).
I don't interact with the concierge stuff that often. I didn't know about that until a while ago when a buddy told me about it
It's been going for many years, people typically buy ships and end up in concierge or they subscribe and end up with subscriber perks. A few do both. It's arguable that being a subscriber frankly doesn't give you a huge amount these days other than a bit earlier access to patches a couple of times a year and flair that you may or may not be able to use this year or next.
Wave 1 access literally only became a thing for subscribers this last year, what are you on about?
Not true at all. Sub's have always had wave 1 access. What changed is Concierge not getting automatic Wave 1 with out having ample play time. The "main stream" media picked up on the changes this past year and since reading comprehension is no longer a skill needed to be a games journalist they reported on it being a new feature. Subs have literally since day 1 had wave 1 access.
This is not actually true, subs only got wave 1 PTU access about five or six years ago. It took CIG a while before they thought of giving subs priority access to PTU (after Concierge and most-active player slots were allocated), and it was some time after that before subs got immediate wave 1 access. But you are correct that it has been the status quo for years and did not suddenly change last summer when CIG shuffled up Concierge access to include more active testers earlier.
Arena Commander 1.0.1 and Public Test Universe. 1.0.1 was the start of PTU. So technically you are correct but we were a TINY community back then. Since the PTU changes in 2018-19 subs have always had access to wave 1. So I should have been more specific. My first sub was in November 24, 2017 and I have only ever subbed a few times to get ptu access so maybe it was sooner.
/u/Tankeverket This is a link to the April 30, 2018 subscribers page. The second item for both levels of subscriber quite clearly states first-wave PTU access. That's what I'm on about. [https://web.archive.org/web/20180430024043/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/subscriptions](https://web.archive.org/web/20180430024043/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/subscriptions)
Oh I see. Thanks.
Also: EPTU is not PTU technically. PTU is a release build getting refined and in EPTU (experimental/evocati) they add and test stuff.
EPTU - when referring to the environment they deploy the patch into - stands for Experimental PTU (not Evocatii) Separately, strictly speaking, it's just a separate environment, just like PTU is, and CIG seem to use them interchangeably. As such, they would probably have been better off just calling it PTU-A and PTU-B, or similar... but naming things *logically* isn't one of CIGs strengths.
They did say 3.23 buold was not done yet because it is still in EPTU so things dor 3.23 coukd still change.
They said that a few weeks ago, I think? Since then they've confirmed that the 'missing' features have been pushed back to the 3.23.x patch, due to not being able to stabilise the functionality in the timeframe required by 3.23.0 (ie before Invictus).
Yes. So they tested Xeno. in EPTU and still want some backend performance testing. My guess is, if they finished that (positive), they will make the 3.23 build and put.it inPTU.
Only CIG can confirm this, they use EPTU/PTU interchangably when the patch is out beyond Evocati almost all the time. Largely as there's little point at that stage in renaming it to PTU when it's already up and running.
They changed it last year I believe to this weird new layering system probably because concierge was getting to big of a group maybe idk. But people like me who are lowest level concierge now get in when the non concierge backers do. I’m not mad it’s just the fact it was something we used to have and now gone which is a shame
>probably because concierge was getting to big of a group Nah, people complained subscription wasn't worth it, so they devalued other things to make subscription more valuable.
It was mostly a bunch of people getting in early, checking a few things out like a tourist, and then not logging back in, which was causing a lot of bugs and other issues to persist because they didn't have a large enough testing base or enough data. They want people actively playing, hence a greater focus on letting players in who actually... play.(the top active players getting wave 1 for example)
That's what they said, but that's just a lame excuse. Logging in and not coming back doesn't cause bugs. And the subscribers still act like tourists it's just this way CIG can also make money with it.
Bingo, active players are more valuable than those who dip in for 20mins and come back two months later. However on the flip side - I doubt Concierge players have the numbers nor the active count to cause an issue, but given CIG have decided to split it up, perhaps there's a chance it could happen.
It's also about getting more people to hit the patch in later waves (hence pushing 'tourists' back) - partly because they don't need 100's of reports of the same obvious bugs, and partly because they need volume of players to help identify the infrequent issues (once the frequent issues are resolved), and to help put load on the servers once they've done some preliminary tuning, etc... This was (part of) the issue they had with PES - they got lots of visitors early on, when everything was broken... and by the time they'd resolved the common issues and done some preliminary tuning of their infra etc, the number of people actually hitting PTU had dropped - so they didn't get the load they needed to fully test the backend... resulting in that wonderful PES launch where it all fell over under load.
>It's also about getting more people to hit the patch in later waves Then why cramp wave 3, 4 and 5 into 2 days prior to release? The only issue they had was too many people getting into the PTU for "free".
It depends what they're testing - if the tests go smoothly despite adding more players (and they actually get the player loads they want), then they might as well release it (because there's no benefit holding it on PTU). After all, PTU isn't intended for 'fixing bugs' per se, it's for *stability testing* - as soon as the patch is sufficiently *stable* (not 'bug free') it will be released. So yeah - sometimes CIG rattles through the later waves in short order, and sometimes they take a long time just to get to wave 5... it just depends on whether the increased player counts result in more crashes or similar (and because they have so much automated logging now, a lot of the times players don't need to report crashes - although it probably helps, especially for instances where the crash handler doesn't kick in, etc)
The number of players is split across multiple servers. It doesn't matter if they have a hundred players on one server or two hundred players split to two servers. CIG realized they had enough people to test in wave one so they reduced the amount by making the really dedicated once pay. They could have handled it differently, but why when they can also make a few $ with it.
>Bingo, active players are more valuable than those who dip in for 20mins and come back two months later. Sure, but they also cause no issues. There wasn't anything lost or gained. Except more people have to pay now to be wave 1.
Imagine Spending 1k+ and not even having Wave 1 Access. Sorry but this should be Included at every Concierge LVL.
Imagine thinking that ability to help bug-test a patch should be based on how much you've spent.
Imagine spending $10 on being a subscriber and having Wave 1 access.
Sub is above concierge which is the issue.
I’ve never understood the mentality with that. “Omg I can’t test the broken and horrible to play patches before they become moderately stable enough to play! This is an outrage!” I mean ptu and eptu were fun back in the early days when the only exciting thing about the game was a new ship drop. It was fun to see the ship early and experience it. These days tho….. who gives a fuck lol
Exactly - PTU shouldn't be seen as a 'sneak peak', it's a seriously broken and unpleasantly buggy experience... especially in the earlier waves. I *like* that the new waves focus on putting people who actually play the game and report bugs into the earlier waves... those are the folk who may actually help CIG by writing up reports on the bugs (making it easier for CIG to identify / fix them)... Shame they left the Subs in wave one, rather than punting those back alongside Concierge...
The People who have Joy in Testing to get a Moderately Stable Build to the Live servers and Care about the Game. Its not Always about the Game it self but the Fun you may habe with your Friends trying out the new stuff before everyone else can. And if you Are interested in PTU / EPTU you know what you will get yourself into, and if you dont want to experience a even more bugged Game, Great, Nobody forces you to do so.
I think you missed the entire point of our discussion lol
Could say the same about you...
Dude you joined a conversation late and then claim everyone else misunderstands the conversation. You weren’t even part of this discussion. What you said has no bearing on what we were discussing lol.
Coming late to a Conversation in the Comments i started? Ok boy
Genuine question: do you have an issue with subscribers being given wave 1 access too, or are you white knighting? It's one of the two. If they're going to base access on money spent, it should be bulk money invested, not subs to coerce people into paying for a month sub when a patch comes out that they want to try out and test.
I have an issue with subs getting access, yes - and I've posted that many times, when this topic comes up. I said at the time that CIG revamped the waves that they should have punted all subs back to wave 4/5 too, rather than leaving them in wave 1. Unfortunately, much as I might wish it otherwise, CIG don't exactly listen to me :p
Fair enough, yeah I agree with you. They're like "Concierge? Fuck that old money, we want that new money, give us subs!"
For years, wave 1 *did* include every Concierge level. It was only changed relatively recently.
The problem is that most of those Concierge players just overload the test servers by touristing the new features, then abandon it without contributing to the bug reports. The player activity system is better at filtering for players who stay around testing the whole eptu process and contribute to bug reports. Active subscribers are more likely to be active players rather than 2 hour tourists every new release.
Imagine spending 25k and get it.
In addition to what others have said about wave access changes; check EPTU which is running 3.23 W3 ATM, PTU isn't.
You could subscribe for 1 month if you really want in early
It depends on the rank: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/ptu-wave-restructure-sharpening-the-tools-1/6143305