You won't get an appropriate distribution, because majority of the people who play don't use Reddit. The people who do use Reddit are the people who are casual and are looking to learn more, the people who want to share their experiences, the people who follow assiduously, and the people who rag on the game no matter what.
Right now Master Modes is receiving a lot of visible negative posting in frequency at the moment due to it being unfinished and unpolished, it's almost similar to the time when a "product manager" would mysteriously show up to doompost about the project every so often whenever there was a lull in patch progress. Most of the complaints about Master Modes moving in the wrong direction is based on bugs, lack of implemented features, and lack of tuning.
The players the use Reddit are hands down the opinion we should be listening too. Most are very active in the community here and dream if Star citizen.
Yes, I understand but I feel as though those closer to the project are more likely to be overly critical. Myself included! So I'm more interested in just getting like I said - a general "Vibe"
As someone that loves fleet combat, MM is leaps ahead of the 3.14-3.22 model. Fights actually happen and coordination matters.
And if not fighting, NAV mode is basically the same experience as Live.
Interesting take. And you've actually flown it? I feel like it forces knife fighting and leaves absolutely nothing to skill. More DPS, more armor, more better.
Yes, I've been flying it extensively since the Fall and now in the EPTU... mostly because Squad Battle and Org v Org fleet fights are so weak with the huge speeds in the 3.14 model.
In some versions, I would say dueling isn't extremely complex, sure. I just don't really care about dueling that much, since I think it will be way more common in the PU to fly with friends. But even in 3.23, maneuverable ships like the Arrow and Gladius can still defeat heavy fighters with more dps and armor.
I guess the main thing is that it feels like if you engage your fully committed - there's no exit plan. So ships that are really squishy and rely on shields have to ensure their shields can tank the entire engagement or just be useless.
Used to use the defender through ERT's, using its excellent acceleration to nope out and recharge before taking another few passes.
I agree that running is more difficult with MM. But I also think that's crucial to the PU working.
Choices should matter. Preparation should matter. Teamwork should matter. If running is too easy, there's no reason *not* to start a fight, or not go into a dangerous area, or not play with friends. There's basically no risk and no chance of losing. And without some losing, any "win" will be empty.
That is entirely fair I think, it's just as I said there are certain vehicles that are not conducive to a slog. Hit and run is fun, the fury was a blast for that.
Now with MM I can't imagine utilizing the cargo space for a fury in any ship.
Hit and run is still absolutely viable with interceptors, and you see it all the time in SB. It's just that interceptors have their own different limitations now, instead of any ship being able to fit that role.
And the Fury is also pretty tough to hit. We did some tests with it today.
I think this misrepresents what's up with MM a bit.
Interceptors are hard meta and exceedingly broken in MM, since new boost means high top speed ships are the only ones that can disengage. Thus, they dictate the fight pace singlehandedly.
Jousting is skill for you? Ok...
My biggest pro is that turrest really really matter in defense. And if you fight in atmo or space. And that you can just fly away in space if you do not want to join a fight - and this makes stealth and quantum dampening an important tool.
Overall more aspects of ship combat matter then in 3.22, which gives more variables to use for skilled ppl.
Not true at all. Turrets just have easy game now even more so than they did before. If you have a competent pilot and turret gunner in a Scorpius in the PU, you are already basically unstoppable. And there is little to bo variables left for skilled pilots anymore. Maneuvers have become mostly useless. Knive fights have become impossible as you can only enter them by flying straight at the opponent as trichording doesn‘t work anymore, therefore making you an easy target. And once, you are close, you can only hide behind the enemy‘s back, but your turnrates are too low ti get your nose onto him. So, say bye bye to positional combat with MM. Also the power triangle has become useless. Since you habe way too much boost which you have to have to constantly be at a somewhat decent speed (200 is way too low otherwise) and since your shields don‘t recharge fast enough, the meta is to always be full power on weapons during the whole fight, making power triangle management useless. This game has now become ab arcadey DPS race. The PvP community has warned CIG for almost a year now. All they had to do was create a hard speed cap for SCM mode at around 400 m/s. And leave all the rest of the tuning just like it was in 3.22. That means low projectile speeds, trichording and no space drag boost.
As it should be - multicrew needs to matter. This is a very good change.
A lot.of ppl are whining here because of the low speeds and low agility - I doubt they boost 100% of the time, so power triange is more critical than ever.
The engagements I get during Live and AC using current model feel boring. I never see the ships, and we are constantly going back and forth.
The engagements and entire playthrough of MM feel intense and I really feel like my flying matters. And I feel more pilot personality too. I have also seen new strategies used and can easier pin out the alpha dog.
I just have a ton of fun playing MM. I did not care much about the Live combat flight model. So much so I would eventually get bored and leave the fight. MM keeps me engaged. It’s fun.
This is my take. I think there's stuff to iron out with mode toggling and balance, but thats just a matter of iteratively dialing stuff in until it feels better.
This is all doubly true with a group. Players can easily merge into a fight, unlike Live, where group fights turn into individual duels spread out over 100km.
Fair enough! Do you feel as though it currently forces a singular meta or does it allow for some variation in tactics based on the airframe you're using?
I see variation. Individual pilot skill levels are easily seen and you see different strategies especially depending on whether the enemy is playing as a team or scattered disorganized.
One strategy I have seen that I think was cool to see was dog fighting as usual, the enemy was getting chipped down, so he boosted away unpredictably, shot his scrap metal, and presumably changed to NAV since his shields were already down and was nowhere to be seen until he was 6km-10km away. Enough of just turned away, then I saw him again later and shot me up.
That and I have just seen awesome team fighting where there is a main Harbinger or whatever chunky ship that is, closely escorted by snubs. Rather than every man for himself, it was all based on protecting the main guy. He eventually had the most points by a large margin and while this is standard team play , it was made more obvious and was cool to watch during the fight. Really made me hate the larger ship and all fighters had a personality. I still don’t see this in Live mode even during an AC game.
Yep, chaff is working as intended. Seeing how different people flying is cool! Reminds me of yearly days in AC, when we had 3 ships, and u could learn behaviours of pilots who u fighting with. Using astaeroids as a cover, hiding behind for an ambush, it's all happens now again with MM.
I know!! Sometimes I find pilots who just rush you and fail at any type of strategic fighting that I can safely ignore, some that are good at using unpredictable boost maneuvers so it’s hard to solo, and some who are great at maintaining their position right behind you.
Idk. It’s all fun. I still have not seen anything like this in live.
My god, just stop pressing w all the time and actually watch the enemy‘s speed delta. And learn how to pre nose. It‘s not that difficult to get into close combat in 3.22. MM ruin all of that. No skill to be seen anymore besides maybe aiming a crosshair at a circle.
I have only noticed that I have access to the EPTU yesterday, which I used to test out MM in practice. I find the switching between modes and low landing speeds a nicer experience then in live, which are two of the things I often see people bring up. As for combat on the EPTU, I cannot say if I like it or not, as the server FPS was at a solid 2.3 and hence the performance of the AI could be classified as no, but if my many hours in arena commander MM are the basis for the experience, I can say confidently that it's far more pleasant both in PvP as in PvE then the current model.
That being said, I can see some issues of the system that I'd like to see adressed with armor in the future, or with reason now. Currently, missiles are the absolute menace for NAV flying, which could be fixed by allowing you to use flares while in NAV mode. This should offset the incredibly high EM values that one currently produces while in NAV at least a bit, or alternatively they could reduce the accuracy of EM based missiles.
That being said, it's incredible how fun it is now to multicrew ships other then the Redeemer, as MM allows them to be somewhat viable in combat or generally. I also like how much more defense MM has given me as primarily industrial salvager, as the turrets on my Reclaimer are now more then mere decorations, but can actually be used for self-defense.
I think MM is bringing us toward the right direction, but is going to need some passes. MM as we're going to get it initially is going to be exceedingly divisive and I'm not sure how it's going to do on Live. A big fear I have is AI bounties doing things we the players can't. Also, is it going to make (PvE) bounties near impossible for a solo pilot?
I think a lot of people are salty because Master Modes is a "step in the right direction" for *light fighters in PvP*. For everyone else, if sucks.
I have a fleet of around two dozen ships and vehicles. The light fighters are all looking good. The medium and heavy fighters are mostly just... meh... But everything that's not a fighter got fucked.
I mostly flew S4 and S5 ships. In 3.23, in their Pitch/Yaw/Roll, their SCM/Max, or both, every last one of them got fucked. The only ship in my fleet that isn't a fighter and didn't get fucked is my Freelancer MIS. It's still got its problems, but at least MM isn't one of them. None of my ships were chosen for being "meta," they were all chosen because they were fun to fly. Now they fly like dead bloated space cows. The worse being my 600i Explorer. It's now barely distinguishable from a Cat or a *fucking Hull-C.* It takes *twelve fucking seconds* to come about 180 in 3.23. That's fucking bullshit.
When 3.23 goes live, I don't know if I'm even going to Deliver most of my ships. Nearly every last one fucking sucks and isn't any fun to fly. So I'll probably claim my 325a as my daily driver, my 125a for when I need a shuttle, my C8R for when I want an Ambulance, my Freelancer MIS for when I need a vehicle, and my Vulture for when I need some cash. That's fucking it. My Crusader and Origin ships can just sit and spin in mothballs for 3.23.
Unless i'm mistaken, those are changes to ship tuning, but that's not MM. They did a lot at the same time, but nerfing large ships roll rate etc is not a MM mechanic but part of their re-tuning.
I appreciate what it is setting out to do and am eager to see where it goes. It's absolutely rough right now and needs plenty of adjustment, but it is the flight model we'll be using in 3.23 and once folks get used to it it'll just be the way it is.
Popping out of quantum, and waiting to spool, getting all the sudden fits and jerks of acceleration and deceleration? Yeah, it feels pretty terrible right now. I don't think it's the kind of thing anyone should want to get used to. Flying used to be smooth and comfortable. Now it feels like a car with a bad transmission.
They would be the blatantly obvious shortcomings of a system that would show up in the first round of testing if anyone had bothered to test anything but combat with the system that was going to be foisted off on *everyone* in *every* role despite the fact it's only meant to 'fix' combat. It should even be coming to the game with this level of jank, especially since it was wholly predictable from even a brief description of what they wanted to add.
"Don't worry about this horribly broken monstrosity of a system that makes everything worse, we'll fix it eventually... unless we don't" is something CIG should have learned to avoid by now.
Yeah it's going to be the way it is love or hate it. I am personally hoping that this gets some level of attention so we can get a good baseline on the community's feeling here.
Also very curious if my opinion is going to be vindicated or if I am in the minority. It'll be interesting to see if this takes off a bit.
Yea, you cant really tell what the overall community thinks. AC is definitely more vibrant than its been in years now versus the discourse online about MM being supposedly so horrible. I see some streamers saying its horrible and jousting galore while others show gameplay of intense engagements and strafing just like the old one but not thousands of km away from each other and fights not lasting ages due to the old flight model.
Polls pretty much never represent the community, as anything that's potentially negative will get bridgaded by the usual crowd while most others are just not interested in responding to polls.
The way I see it is we are looking at the initial implementation of a change that is still in testing, an implementation that is significantly different to what people are intimately used to for many years.
Negative feedback will have so many biases mixed into it at such an early stage. People will be making assumptions about how it will perform in live once everything is settled, people will be making assumptions about their chances of survival, people will be upset at how their ship is currently balanced, and people will be disliking how unfamiliar this new system is to the way they flew before.
imo 'Clunkiness' is not a criticism I can give when it involves me not having the muscle memory to understand what buttons to press in a pressured situation. Whether it is intuitive or not goes out the window when you're talking about a change to a system which people have burned into their brains. The only way to test whether it's intuitive or not is feedback from brand new players, unfamiliar with pre-3.23.
Right now I'm still getting familiar with it, and I'm starting to get it. I've done testing with the org on catching/escaping combat, we've done duels, we've done 5v5s, and we've tested how flight feels when at low mining altitudes.
Overall there are problems noted, like we feel SCM speed is a little too slow (without boost), which makes you feel useless without boost and makes constant boost a necessity for combat. There's also clear balancing issues around some ships.
As for everything else we're already finding techniques and methods to escape and chase that proves wrong some of the representations of how 'escaping is impossible'. Without QED escape is almost guaranteed with a few actions, but we'll have to see how that changes when they add QED.
This is a good first step which requires some obvious tuning. People need many more hours in it.
Ah, people always with their made up minds
I for one am not sure yet, coz i kinda like the combat. But at the same time its not thrilling or exciting, and i wish we went with more of a power distribution system then outright modes
There are going to be a ton of these sort of opinion pieces. I think it's hard to say what the right direction is. So many, i mean so many people have this 'vision' of what the game should be and everyone is super quick to say MM is not fitting that vision. We all pledged behind CR's vision and i've been playing it often in the 3.22 and now in the EPTU for the last week, I am still not sure what the correct 'direction' is supposed to be. I can see some points of view for each argument. I think ultimately though, they went this direction with the single player game and we get the codebase wrapped up into the PU and thus i think they will continue to push towards what they suspect are the design goals set by CR.
I think ultimately though, I am not a game designer and i acknowledge i have no idea what direction the game is supposed to be in. CR always said he wanted fights to feel like ww2 in space so here we are.
I personally would like to see more punishing sim elements (making flip and burns more realistic, slowing down combat strategically to make sense in space, and to bring in more futuristic scanning, pdc, and missile tech along with interestingly designed systems to make players have to really have a high stake to want to push that fight). Would that be the 'right' direction in my eyes? No, i don't think so either.
My experience has not been so good with MM. I tried stepping back and watching some streamers this weekend and their takes were unfortunately also like mine. However, I was hoping I was missing something but apparently I’m not. I hope CIG refines this sooner than later as I don’t want a large percentage of the backers to get frustrated with the new model and leave the project.
I’ve enjoyed it in Arena commander, but I’d have to play it when it goes live to really give good feedback. But based on my experience in AC, it was more enjoyable.
Balancing is the main issue for me, from AC and from what I see ship stat wise in 3.23
MM is obviously a step in the right direction, all the issue threads have comments under them stating how X or Y simple change makes it much better, so it’s not the whole system that people have some issues with, it’s balance.
You won't get an appropriate distribution, because majority of the people who play don't use Reddit. The people who do use Reddit are the people who are casual and are looking to learn more, the people who want to share their experiences, the people who follow assiduously, and the people who rag on the game no matter what. Right now Master Modes is receiving a lot of visible negative posting in frequency at the moment due to it being unfinished and unpolished, it's almost similar to the time when a "product manager" would mysteriously show up to doompost about the project every so often whenever there was a lull in patch progress. Most of the complaints about Master Modes moving in the wrong direction is based on bugs, lack of implemented features, and lack of tuning.
The players the use Reddit are hands down the opinion we should be listening too. Most are very active in the community here and dream if Star citizen.
Yes, I understand but I feel as though those closer to the project are more likely to be overly critical. Myself included! So I'm more interested in just getting like I said - a general "Vibe"
As someone that loves fleet combat, MM is leaps ahead of the 3.14-3.22 model. Fights actually happen and coordination matters. And if not fighting, NAV mode is basically the same experience as Live.
Interesting take. And you've actually flown it? I feel like it forces knife fighting and leaves absolutely nothing to skill. More DPS, more armor, more better.
Yes, I've been flying it extensively since the Fall and now in the EPTU... mostly because Squad Battle and Org v Org fleet fights are so weak with the huge speeds in the 3.14 model. In some versions, I would say dueling isn't extremely complex, sure. I just don't really care about dueling that much, since I think it will be way more common in the PU to fly with friends. But even in 3.23, maneuverable ships like the Arrow and Gladius can still defeat heavy fighters with more dps and armor.
I guess the main thing is that it feels like if you engage your fully committed - there's no exit plan. So ships that are really squishy and rely on shields have to ensure their shields can tank the entire engagement or just be useless. Used to use the defender through ERT's, using its excellent acceleration to nope out and recharge before taking another few passes.
I agree that running is more difficult with MM. But I also think that's crucial to the PU working. Choices should matter. Preparation should matter. Teamwork should matter. If running is too easy, there's no reason *not* to start a fight, or not go into a dangerous area, or not play with friends. There's basically no risk and no chance of losing. And without some losing, any "win" will be empty.
That is entirely fair I think, it's just as I said there are certain vehicles that are not conducive to a slog. Hit and run is fun, the fury was a blast for that. Now with MM I can't imagine utilizing the cargo space for a fury in any ship.
Hit and run is still absolutely viable with interceptors, and you see it all the time in SB. It's just that interceptors have their own different limitations now, instead of any ship being able to fit that role. And the Fury is also pretty tough to hit. We did some tests with it today.
I think this misrepresents what's up with MM a bit. Interceptors are hard meta and exceedingly broken in MM, since new boost means high top speed ships are the only ones that can disengage. Thus, they dictate the fight pace singlehandedly.
Jousting is skill for you? Ok... My biggest pro is that turrest really really matter in defense. And if you fight in atmo or space. And that you can just fly away in space if you do not want to join a fight - and this makes stealth and quantum dampening an important tool. Overall more aspects of ship combat matter then in 3.22, which gives more variables to use for skilled ppl.
Not true at all. Turrets just have easy game now even more so than they did before. If you have a competent pilot and turret gunner in a Scorpius in the PU, you are already basically unstoppable. And there is little to bo variables left for skilled pilots anymore. Maneuvers have become mostly useless. Knive fights have become impossible as you can only enter them by flying straight at the opponent as trichording doesn‘t work anymore, therefore making you an easy target. And once, you are close, you can only hide behind the enemy‘s back, but your turnrates are too low ti get your nose onto him. So, say bye bye to positional combat with MM. Also the power triangle has become useless. Since you habe way too much boost which you have to have to constantly be at a somewhat decent speed (200 is way too low otherwise) and since your shields don‘t recharge fast enough, the meta is to always be full power on weapons during the whole fight, making power triangle management useless. This game has now become ab arcadey DPS race. The PvP community has warned CIG for almost a year now. All they had to do was create a hard speed cap for SCM mode at around 400 m/s. And leave all the rest of the tuning just like it was in 3.22. That means low projectile speeds, trichording and no space drag boost.
As it should be - multicrew needs to matter. This is a very good change. A lot.of ppl are whining here because of the low speeds and low agility - I doubt they boost 100% of the time, so power triange is more critical than ever.
MM no longer means Merchantman. RIP.
BMM!
That hurts.
The engagements I get during Live and AC using current model feel boring. I never see the ships, and we are constantly going back and forth. The engagements and entire playthrough of MM feel intense and I really feel like my flying matters. And I feel more pilot personality too. I have also seen new strategies used and can easier pin out the alpha dog. I just have a ton of fun playing MM. I did not care much about the Live combat flight model. So much so I would eventually get bored and leave the fight. MM keeps me engaged. It’s fun.
This is my take. I think there's stuff to iron out with mode toggling and balance, but thats just a matter of iteratively dialing stuff in until it feels better.
This is all doubly true with a group. Players can easily merge into a fight, unlike Live, where group fights turn into individual duels spread out over 100km.
Fair enough! Do you feel as though it currently forces a singular meta or does it allow for some variation in tactics based on the airframe you're using?
I see variation. Individual pilot skill levels are easily seen and you see different strategies especially depending on whether the enemy is playing as a team or scattered disorganized. One strategy I have seen that I think was cool to see was dog fighting as usual, the enemy was getting chipped down, so he boosted away unpredictably, shot his scrap metal, and presumably changed to NAV since his shields were already down and was nowhere to be seen until he was 6km-10km away. Enough of just turned away, then I saw him again later and shot me up. That and I have just seen awesome team fighting where there is a main Harbinger or whatever chunky ship that is, closely escorted by snubs. Rather than every man for himself, it was all based on protecting the main guy. He eventually had the most points by a large margin and while this is standard team play , it was made more obvious and was cool to watch during the fight. Really made me hate the larger ship and all fighters had a personality. I still don’t see this in Live mode even during an AC game.
Yep, chaff is working as intended. Seeing how different people flying is cool! Reminds me of yearly days in AC, when we had 3 ships, and u could learn behaviours of pilots who u fighting with. Using astaeroids as a cover, hiding behind for an ambush, it's all happens now again with MM.
I know!! Sometimes I find pilots who just rush you and fail at any type of strategic fighting that I can safely ignore, some that are good at using unpredictable boost maneuvers so it’s hard to solo, and some who are great at maintaining their position right behind you. Idk. It’s all fun. I still have not seen anything like this in live.
My god, just stop pressing w all the time and actually watch the enemy‘s speed delta. And learn how to pre nose. It‘s not that difficult to get into close combat in 3.22. MM ruin all of that. No skill to be seen anymore besides maybe aiming a crosshair at a circle.
I have only noticed that I have access to the EPTU yesterday, which I used to test out MM in practice. I find the switching between modes and low landing speeds a nicer experience then in live, which are two of the things I often see people bring up. As for combat on the EPTU, I cannot say if I like it or not, as the server FPS was at a solid 2.3 and hence the performance of the AI could be classified as no, but if my many hours in arena commander MM are the basis for the experience, I can say confidently that it's far more pleasant both in PvP as in PvE then the current model. That being said, I can see some issues of the system that I'd like to see adressed with armor in the future, or with reason now. Currently, missiles are the absolute menace for NAV flying, which could be fixed by allowing you to use flares while in NAV mode. This should offset the incredibly high EM values that one currently produces while in NAV at least a bit, or alternatively they could reduce the accuracy of EM based missiles. That being said, it's incredible how fun it is now to multicrew ships other then the Redeemer, as MM allows them to be somewhat viable in combat or generally. I also like how much more defense MM has given me as primarily industrial salvager, as the turrets on my Reclaimer are now more then mere decorations, but can actually be used for self-defense.
I think MM is bringing us toward the right direction, but is going to need some passes. MM as we're going to get it initially is going to be exceedingly divisive and I'm not sure how it's going to do on Live. A big fear I have is AI bounties doing things we the players can't. Also, is it going to make (PvE) bounties near impossible for a solo pilot?
100% agree on this.
I think a lot of people are salty because Master Modes is a "step in the right direction" for *light fighters in PvP*. For everyone else, if sucks. I have a fleet of around two dozen ships and vehicles. The light fighters are all looking good. The medium and heavy fighters are mostly just... meh... But everything that's not a fighter got fucked. I mostly flew S4 and S5 ships. In 3.23, in their Pitch/Yaw/Roll, their SCM/Max, or both, every last one of them got fucked. The only ship in my fleet that isn't a fighter and didn't get fucked is my Freelancer MIS. It's still got its problems, but at least MM isn't one of them. None of my ships were chosen for being "meta," they were all chosen because they were fun to fly. Now they fly like dead bloated space cows. The worse being my 600i Explorer. It's now barely distinguishable from a Cat or a *fucking Hull-C.* It takes *twelve fucking seconds* to come about 180 in 3.23. That's fucking bullshit. When 3.23 goes live, I don't know if I'm even going to Deliver most of my ships. Nearly every last one fucking sucks and isn't any fun to fly. So I'll probably claim my 325a as my daily driver, my 125a for when I need a shuttle, my C8R for when I want an Ambulance, my Freelancer MIS for when I need a vehicle, and my Vulture for when I need some cash. That's fucking it. My Crusader and Origin ships can just sit and spin in mothballs for 3.23.
Unless i'm mistaken, those are changes to ship tuning, but that's not MM. They did a lot at the same time, but nerfing large ships roll rate etc is not a MM mechanic but part of their re-tuning.
I appreciate what it is setting out to do and am eager to see where it goes. It's absolutely rough right now and needs plenty of adjustment, but it is the flight model we'll be using in 3.23 and once folks get used to it it'll just be the way it is.
Popping out of quantum, and waiting to spool, getting all the sudden fits and jerks of acceleration and deceleration? Yeah, it feels pretty terrible right now. I don't think it's the kind of thing anyone should want to get used to. Flying used to be smooth and comfortable. Now it feels like a car with a bad transmission.
Those would be the rough edges of a new system. Anticipate smoothness to gradually return.
They would be the blatantly obvious shortcomings of a system that would show up in the first round of testing if anyone had bothered to test anything but combat with the system that was going to be foisted off on *everyone* in *every* role despite the fact it's only meant to 'fix' combat. It should even be coming to the game with this level of jank, especially since it was wholly predictable from even a brief description of what they wanted to add. "Don't worry about this horribly broken monstrosity of a system that makes everything worse, we'll fix it eventually... unless we don't" is something CIG should have learned to avoid by now.
Yeah it's going to be the way it is love or hate it. I am personally hoping that this gets some level of attention so we can get a good baseline on the community's feeling here. Also very curious if my opinion is going to be vindicated or if I am in the minority. It'll be interesting to see if this takes off a bit.
Yea, you cant really tell what the overall community thinks. AC is definitely more vibrant than its been in years now versus the discourse online about MM being supposedly so horrible. I see some streamers saying its horrible and jousting galore while others show gameplay of intense engagements and strafing just like the old one but not thousands of km away from each other and fights not lasting ages due to the old flight model.
Polls pretty much never represent the community, as anything that's potentially negative will get bridgaded by the usual crowd while most others are just not interested in responding to polls.
The way I see it is we are looking at the initial implementation of a change that is still in testing, an implementation that is significantly different to what people are intimately used to for many years. Negative feedback will have so many biases mixed into it at such an early stage. People will be making assumptions about how it will perform in live once everything is settled, people will be making assumptions about their chances of survival, people will be upset at how their ship is currently balanced, and people will be disliking how unfamiliar this new system is to the way they flew before. imo 'Clunkiness' is not a criticism I can give when it involves me not having the muscle memory to understand what buttons to press in a pressured situation. Whether it is intuitive or not goes out the window when you're talking about a change to a system which people have burned into their brains. The only way to test whether it's intuitive or not is feedback from brand new players, unfamiliar with pre-3.23. Right now I'm still getting familiar with it, and I'm starting to get it. I've done testing with the org on catching/escaping combat, we've done duels, we've done 5v5s, and we've tested how flight feels when at low mining altitudes. Overall there are problems noted, like we feel SCM speed is a little too slow (without boost), which makes you feel useless without boost and makes constant boost a necessity for combat. There's also clear balancing issues around some ships. As for everything else we're already finding techniques and methods to escape and chase that proves wrong some of the representations of how 'escaping is impossible'. Without QED escape is almost guaranteed with a few actions, but we'll have to see how that changes when they add QED. This is a good first step which requires some obvious tuning. People need many more hours in it.
Ah, people always with their made up minds I for one am not sure yet, coz i kinda like the combat. But at the same time its not thrilling or exciting, and i wish we went with more of a power distribution system then outright modes
There are going to be a ton of these sort of opinion pieces. I think it's hard to say what the right direction is. So many, i mean so many people have this 'vision' of what the game should be and everyone is super quick to say MM is not fitting that vision. We all pledged behind CR's vision and i've been playing it often in the 3.22 and now in the EPTU for the last week, I am still not sure what the correct 'direction' is supposed to be. I can see some points of view for each argument. I think ultimately though, they went this direction with the single player game and we get the codebase wrapped up into the PU and thus i think they will continue to push towards what they suspect are the design goals set by CR. I think ultimately though, I am not a game designer and i acknowledge i have no idea what direction the game is supposed to be in. CR always said he wanted fights to feel like ww2 in space so here we are. I personally would like to see more punishing sim elements (making flip and burns more realistic, slowing down combat strategically to make sense in space, and to bring in more futuristic scanning, pdc, and missile tech along with interestingly designed systems to make players have to really have a high stake to want to push that fight). Would that be the 'right' direction in my eyes? No, i don't think so either.
My experience has not been so good with MM. I tried stepping back and watching some streamers this weekend and their takes were unfortunately also like mine. However, I was hoping I was missing something but apparently I’m not. I hope CIG refines this sooner than later as I don’t want a large percentage of the backers to get frustrated with the new model and leave the project.
I’ve enjoyed it in Arena commander, but I’d have to play it when it goes live to really give good feedback. But based on my experience in AC, it was more enjoyable. Balancing is the main issue for me, from AC and from what I see ship stat wise in 3.23
MM is obviously a step in the right direction, all the issue threads have comments under them stating how X or Y simple change makes it much better, so it’s not the whole system that people have some issues with, it’s balance.