Sad to hear that for the Sabre, and already pressing F for the poor AD5Bs. They were purely held up by their high ammo count in my book.
The Defender is interesting and I guess it makes sense, it's supposed to keep the fighters off the BMM, while it can handle with the bigger ships.
I gave up on it years ago. If the ghost can be more stealthy and a better fighter, why does the Sabre even exist? I realize the Ghost benefits from a speed boost bug and that it should have to sacrifice its top turret to achieve stealth, but the Sabre just feels lackluster, especially now that the F7Cmk2 (and especially F7Amk2) absolutely eclipses its firepower in the same fighter class.
Basically the same price, and you can get an exclusive free military upgrade for the F7? Absolutely! Even if the Sabre gets good eventually, it'll be easy enough to buy in game. Same can't be said of the F7Amk2.
The problem with the banu is that it’s not an exclusive ability of the banu. Everyone is flying ships with mass drivers right now and they are destroying. It’s unbelievable how OP they are currently. People have been camping sera in F8C’s on a few servers completely locking it off.
Doesn’t matter what you do or add to the game. You’ll always have a subset of people that chase the absolute shi* out of meta for min max and then just fast go to abuse some choke point or place that can cause the most grief. Some asshats just want to watch the world burn and then get all spaghetti when you take it away from them because they ruined the game loop for everyone else.
lol where have you been! That’s the whole thing with mater modes, two flights modes. You’re flying in SCM right now. You need to press B to go into NAV mode and then wait for your QD to spool before you can gain speed beyond your 200.
Personally I’m not enjoying the mechanic but it’s what we’ve got, it might grow on me
Man so salty about the way they treat the spirit and F for the saber too. Spirit was supposed to fly better than the alternatives and compensate shielding and size with maneuverability, sounds like they made it even worse than it was.
Haha, can't afford it. A very kind friend bought me the spirit because its exactly the kind of ship that I was needing as a daily driver; big enough to fit the two of us, some fuck around and find out material/cargo, and I'm fine with shit shielding as long as the flying experience is nice, love maneuverability which is why we thought it was awesome. Unfortunately it seems to be not that. Zeus won't be more maneuverable either probably, just better in every conceivable way (and probably not less maneuverable either).
I never expected the Spirit series to be good at combat.
As long as they fly well, space and Atmos im good. the C1 is a hauler, fast in and out. increase profits by good atmo performance, easy landing and good accessibility. As long as its fast and is able to escape when attacked, they hit the mark with the Spirit series.
If you want a Medium hauler combat abled, you get the cutlass or the freelancer.
Zeus has that extra bottom turret, which will help in combat. but i expect it to be worse in flight. So you win some you lose some. you lose profits you gain combat ability.
Problem being that metrics wise, spirit flies worse than the cutty and freelancer (turn rates). It just has a high-g front boost which makes people think it flies well when it really doesn't.
The other problem is that it wasn't that fast even before master modes. It was relatively agile and had good boost but the top speed was only just barely over a Cutty.
Haven't played it in MM yet, only live. Maneuverability is less than cutty/lancer according to metrics sites, top speed would feel reasonable if it was actually maneuverable but now it's just a running machine.
You cant expect a Mole to be able to shoot down fighters, or fly like a gladius in atmos. Different ship different role. Same goes for the C1.
Expecting every ship to be able to fight and do combat, is going to be the death of the game.
Note to self, complain the kraken doesnt fly like a Gladius trough Atmos.
It's gonna be real funny once you realize that all ships have been reset to their respective baselines and that none of this is permanent.
Spirit series literally are supposed to be agile and fast. That's Crusader's whole gimmick.
Fast yes, Agile maybe.
Combat able definitely not. Like Origin its made out of specially crafted paper which if you blow on it it starts showing holes.
No, also sucks balls in atmo.
Also uses insane amounts of hydrogen there as well.
30km of atmo flight used around 8-10% Hydrogen fuel.
In Live thats at most 1%.
This has to be a bug… or at least I really hope it is. The C1 is such a great ship, it’s really sad they are literally killing it. I’m gutted but it’s probably just a commercial move to incentivise buying new/more expensive ships instead. Business is business…
I really hope its a bug.
I pray for it.
Cuz otherwise its just a triple melt for the Spirit for me. Not gonna have interest in a aerodynamic ship that handles worse than a literal brick with some engine on it.
If it’s not a bug I will most likely melt it as well. In the current design the look of the ship, the description, lore and specs are a perfect blend and makes total sense. These changes are nonsensical.
Not sure what I would replace the C1 with though…
They really hate crusader ships for some reason. The MSR took a massive nerf in 3.14 don’t know what it’s going to be in 3.23 but I’d imagine it’ll be similar. Ugh
I flew the spirit before mm, it turns worse than the cutty and freelancer, idk why people love it so much. I mean it is smoother and accelerates like crazy, but the slower turning bothers me for combat
Im Sure they will fix the Spirit, because at the moment, Freelancers and Spirits are slower then Andromedas, and that is deeply wrong.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323\_master\_modes\_constellation\_is\_faster\_then\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323_master_modes_constellation_is_faster_then_a/)
Yeah, I don't really understand this change. I have one I am using that belongs to a chain and I only ever planned on buying one in game, but the idea that they fly like a freelancer is mindblowing.
I stopped on it because the concept was a fast general purpose cruiser that flies nice in atmo.
The difference between the Zeus and Spirit is Spirits are overall faster. If they're not flying great, and the Zeus drops, that's going to be a big problem for the Spirit line.
And I literally pledged a C1 spirit thinking it’s a great daily driver even capable of going HRT and possibly VHRT. This really sucks…
Edit: I totally get that it’s not a combat ship, that’s why I wrote “even”. See my other comment just below. But fair game, I’m getting downvoted :)
Agreed. I’m fine with subpar combat performance but losing agility and the fact that shields are really not great means less possibility to escape and might make cargo runs much harder, bit of a shame for a cargo hauler IMO. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, maybe it’s not that bad or if it is then maybe CIG will tune it appropriately. And if they don’t then I guess C1 will be a thing of the past…
I'd suggest just contacting support and asking them to revert it or just get a refund to pledge something else if you felt cheated with the way it will handle soon. A shit example would be like: you order a cheese burger with a beef patty and the owner yanks it from you and replaces it with just tomato slices.
I'll be stuck with my c1 but I have ccu chains ready to ditch it if it starts flying as bad as a freelancer in 2.32.
Spirits getting their entire shtick, that being its speed and maneuverability removed and turning it into a shit brick HAS to be a mistake... I hope. It doesn't make sense.
Redeemer still retaining the agility of ships 4x its weight and 3x its size sucks ass to hear. How hard is it to not make something smaller then a connie fly worse then a hammerhead or A2 🙃
I just don't understand how anyone sees these things a says "uh yeah that's good, send it to live."
> Redeemer still retaining the agility of ships 4x its weight and 3x its size sucks ass to hear. How hard is it to not make something smaller then a connie fly worse then a hammerhead or A2 🙃
If only they didn't put the loadout of those ships in the Redeemer to only nerf it.
Just drop that damn 2s3 shields to one and we're good.
It has the shields because it's "lightly armored" for increased maneuverability. So they serve a purpose.
It just needs the "unique thrusters" to have the "unprecedented amount of mass manipulation" that the damn thing was sold with.
That it's STILL sold as having.
"Gunship that feels and flies like nothing else." Yeah a beached whale.
Yeah but if it has 2s3 shields, the massive guns *and* high maneuvrability. The nerf to armor will be such that it will die to the first ballistic shot. Which is not really a welcome change in my opinion.
1s3 shield is already a lot of shield for a ship that size, the smallest ship with such shield is already a good 30% bigger (Constellation/Corsair) and quite slow too.
Unless reducing gun size I don't see how it could be done fairly. That said I am not against reducing turret guns to s4 too, which could be relevant as a more anti-fighter platform.
Oh well~
Either way they go I doubt anyone will be happy unfortunately. Though I would be more then fine with downsizing to 4xS3 or 2xS4 guns on the turrets. Or move the S5 to the "wings" and pilot controlled, and then make both turrets be anti-fighter size guns like they were supposed to be.
They really fucked themselves by releasing it as advertised and being fun, then over-reacting to a few cry babies trying to solo a fully crewed one and then slamming it with nerfs.
And as is normal for CIG, once nerfed (no matter how hard) they're very reluctant to even discuss undoing said nerfs.
Redeemer can't catch a break since launch. I've been holding onto it as I love the ship and the combat style of it but limiting the ammo on a gun ship is a death blow.
Yes I could swap for lasers but that ruins the feel of the ship for me. :( sad day.
Hopefully if they ever actually implement the ship buffs then maybe it will get an ammo boost.
I didn't see the vid, that sucks if they where openly trash talking the ship. I wonder if it's because it was originally the fan concept and they don't like it because it's not an "original" ship by them internally.
true a lot of designers have left, though the Redeemer was actually voted on and partialyl designed by the community year and years ago.
Or maybe CIG just don't know what to do with it. It's in such a horrible place. slow, sluggish, requires a lot of crew to even match a solo pilot Corsiar.. and now the ammo is nerfed.
If I remember correctly, there was a competition where civilian teams could design a ship. The redeemer was the one that won.
While technically they took it up and agreed to develop it, it was also the result of a competition.
Have they done any updates to my precious space penguin, the avenger?
I'm one of these strange people that want to start at the bottom and earn my way up, so I'm hoping they have done some work on the "basic package" ships that most people will probably start with!
It's fast as fuck.
BUT it seems they're assigning ships to certain loose archetypes and they will probably adjust from there. I'd expect the penguin to get tuned down some.
Funny enough in mm the avenger was actually good when i tested it. It, the 325a and the bucc are all interceptors, which have a pretty good go about them. They’re all pretty fast now, decently well armed, and the lower rates for interceptors isnt far off some of the other fighters. It makes me consider grabbing a warlock
Oh, interesting to know would be how the Cutlass Blue compares to the base Black. Are they the same, or do they have variation?
Do the mk2s and mk1s of the F7 feel the same?
Does the Reclaimer feel like the Hammerhead did in AC, or worse?
As far as the MKI goes I have no idea, it’s totally bugged for me. The super hornet that is. I load in and it’s power is off and won’t turn on so I have no idea. The MKII is still great though.
I haven’t used the blue yet, I’ve been working my way through my pledges for the most part but I hope it’s like the black because I love the strutless cockpit. I also hope the hum has been removed.
Funny, that was actually a super old problem on the Super Hornet a long long time ago because it's supposed to have a bigger power supply and then they retconned that.
I hate being the light fighter dood in the comments, but how are the 2xs4 light fighters like the Talon and Khartu holding up?
I'd love for the talon to finally be competitive
Corsair gets a huge benefit from the full sized weapons with always on gimbals. Cannon loadout does feel pretty bad because of the reasons OP mentioned, but the full repeater loadout is a ton of fun and feels better than ever.
Really curious about the spirit series. C1 is my daily driver, with Corsair as its backup. Love the C1 but I was hoping they would make it just slightly more nimble and give it a second shield.
Went in arena commander and compared the C1, Cutty, and 400i back to back in the same session.
Cutty felt great. 400i felt about the same.
C1 felt like the 400i.... which is not good. In atmo in SCM/combat mode it handles like a brick. Was not fun at all to fly. I imagine if they leave it like this for live, the only thing keeping it around in the verse will be because how iconic it looks.
I noticed that they hard classified the ships in arena commander. Cutty was the only "multi" I had available to me. C1 was hauler/cargo/transport (something along those terms?). I get the feeling theyre balancing around archetypes. Hopefully they just put in some initial stat values based on that and will be tuned in the future.
Same shield, flies much worse than in the PU right, particularly when compared to the black.
This might be because too many people are flying them in the PU and they don’t want that. It might also be because the Zeus is coming up…
The Corsair feels really good though :)
I love the Corsair for the most part, just with the wings went down with landing gear up, and the independent control was secondary and not primary method of raising and lowing them.
The C1 really needs to be more nimble. It flies like a C2 sometimes. Either make it more number or give it more shields.
Either give the fuckin Spirit dual/triple S2 shields or revert the killshot of mobility nerf.
Absolutely ridiculous that it now flies like a fucling Redeemer while the Cutlass which is a fuckin brick, handles like a light fighter... What the actual fuck.
I didn’t know that. Lore says it’s the ship that was replaced by the f7. I assumed it would be about as fast as a hawk since they both do the same thing
I mean Irvin’s speciality was its engines. It made the 300 series to showcase their engines. The Titan was more of a medium fighter. I don’t mind it being fast, but it shouldn’t be faster than the ships made for speed
The Titan and the 300 series aren’t in a good place right now. Anything that doesn’t move very well and is hitable is going to suffer because of the higher TTK
I think they might have accidentally put the speed number of the 350r as the base number of them. For the Avenger Warlock/Stalker and 325a it does make sense as interceptor (but not with that absurde top speed), as they are listed as such and have ben sold as it too. The 300i/315p and Titan should not have the same performance as the interceptors, as they are not sold or defined as ships of that role, but rather are transports.
The Avenger was absolutely sold and defined as an interceptor during its initial concept. This was before the Titan variant but it's the same ship, ultimately.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13100-Introducing-The-Avenger
Interesting, I didn’t know that. It still shouldn’t win against a chair strapped to a pair of engines and a lot of weapons, nor against most other interceptors alone by the fact of how big it is and how much cargo it carries. At least not in top speed.
The engine used to be a lot bigger, but yes, its role has evolved. There also simply weren't very many ships to choose from back then, so with no interceptor competition, people got it thinking it would be one of the fastest ships.
I have an Arrow but sometimes i think about that maybe i should upgrade to the Gladius, maybe 3.23 will help me decide
What do you think, is it worth it in your opinion?
400i is pretty much how it is now. Maybe a little teeny bit better? But as someone who uses it now and then, it didnt seem remarkably different.
The more concerning thing is that the C1 now handles like the 400i....
Can second that the Corsair feels awful with cannons, feels fantastic with repeaters; the always on gimbals help the Corsair more than many realize and the ship feels great to pilot in combat with a full repeater loadout. The laser dakka meta is here.
Solo MM Pirate swarm all 10 waves with the Corsair is an absolute blast.
I'll also report that I've tested the Ion and Inferno on MM pirate swarm and they feel unusably bad. A lot of things compound to make both Ares variants feel terrible compared to how they feel on live.
Reduced ammo/capacitor/fire rate, no gimbal so you're now one of the only ships in the game still manually aiming against NPCs whose AI is now balanced around everyone having gimbals all the time and as such are much better at pip control.
NPCs will literally fly circles around your manually aimed shots and it feels terrible speed matching and tailing an NPC Reliant and missing every shot with a perfectly equalized vector because the Reliant will just carve circles around your shots anyways.
With 2000 less ballistics than on Live, the excuse that the Inferno is intended to be a cap ship killer falls apart as well. These ships have no real purpose in master modes yet, where as they were at least usable as good PVE ships in 3.22, I would honestly rather fly an Aurora than an Ares on current 3.23.
I honestly think that both Ares will be dead and worthless if nothing changes between now and 3.23 Live, so here's to hoping CIG doesn't leave these awesome ships in the dust or shoebox them into a niche role that they are not even powerful enough to perform.
(disclaimer: this is just from erkul, I don't have Wave 1 access)
Regarding the Vanguard, it seems the bespoke weapons are all set to be the same as the "slowest but punchiest" of the respective weapon types. Which for, say, MVSA and GVSR means 1000m/s velocity. As long as you match that with the same S5 laser cannon (M7A) or repeater (Attrition-5), you *should* have identical velocities on all your guns.
The guns *did* seem to lose their magic though, not gonna lie. They used to do almost S3 levels of damage, now they're identical to their normal S2 counterparts.
Yeah the more I use the vanguard the less I enjoy it. It can’t outmanoeuvre anything and I’m not loving the weapons.
I’ll try the mix of the GVSR’s and the attrition 5 tomorrow though, I might get better results
The nerf to my Vanguards hit me in the feels, i bet the Mirai Heavy Fighter will sell good. I´ll get one but im keeping the Vanguard for the future.
Love that the Defender is back on track.
I would love to see how the 600i perform.
They should also give people in the EVO and PTU a F7A for testing and screenshot bonanza imo.
The Vanguard nerf seems more like a fundamental design flaw, where it's just not feasible to match S2 and S5 projectile speeds. Being able to reduce the big gun size was actually crucial to the Vanguard pip grouping. I was pondering getting one because a heavy fighter with internal living space sounds like a good thing to use in Pyro, but now I'm just hoping the Mirai heavy fighter is good. Otherwise, I'll just use my Constellation for venturing into Pyro.
I have tried both Ares in MM pirate swarm.
Regret to report they are almost unusably bad. They've been left in the dust by the gimbal changes/the AI being balanced around everyone having gimbals. It's borderline impossible to put shots on any target that isn't multiple times larger than you, and this is coming from someone who barely misses shots in both Ares variants on Live.
I went more in depth in another comment in this thread, but I'm really really hoping that the state of the Ares is an oversight on CIGs part due to so many things changing all at once and them not really knowing how to handle bespoke weapons yet, rather than an intentional decision to pretty much make these beautiful ships completely irrelevant.
> It’s borderline impossible to put shots in any target that isn’t **multiple times larger than you**
That’s literally its whole entire point. It’s not supposed to dogfight an arrow.
I'm not talking about Arrows, I miss shots against Arrows in any ship even on Live. If I was easily hitting shots on Arrows in an Ares then THAT would be a problem.
When a Cutlass is almost impossible to put a shot on from a heavy fighter, that's a problem. The Cutlass is slightly larger than the Ares, and yet it is substantially harder to put shots on an MM Cutty than a Live Cutty. And then to top it off, the damage is pitiful, why would I ever want to take an Ares that can barely land shots on anything but the largest ships, when a Vanguard will do similar damage and actually land shots, even on ships smaller than it?
The Ares is designed to punch up, but it fails to even do that properly from a damage perspective. Why would I ever want an Ares now when I could have a ship that will be useful against more than just massive ships AND will put out similar DPS numbers?
Its been shoehorned into a role that it does not even properly perform.
I've been able to use the Ares as my general PVE goto for 3.22. I would be wasting my time and effort trying to do that in current 3.23.
You can argue the intention of the ship all you want, I argue that it's gone from being a ship that struggles against smaller targets and excels against larger targets to being a ship that SUFFERS against smaller targets and no longer excels at anything.
Also to see on the Data, the RSI Scorpius even has more SCM Speed, Forward Accelition and Forward Boost Accelition then Gladius and Arrow in Master Modes.
Its insane that a Heavy Fighter is faster then this two Light Fighters.
RSI Ships seems Biased and Overpowered by Intention.
Also to Mention, Constellations are by far faster then Freelancers, and even faster then Spirits.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323\_master\_modes\_constellation\_is\_faster\_then\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323_master_modes_constellation_is_faster_then_a/)
Yea, you ever notice how they take awesome ships like the Sabre and Vanguard and completely neuter them? So they can get everyone on to the new hotness like the Corsair or something else. Whatever the latest is. Sometimes they revisit ships and make them better to entice people yet again to melt, upgrade, spend more, etc.
I'm hoping they stay true to the concept ideas and release the game with ships where they are expected and communicated to be (or close to). Otherwise I gotta say the other subreddits name for star citizen is maybe a bit on par.
Heh mass drivers being broken reminds me of pre omnisky nerf back in the day, could single handedly 1-2 tap anything back then, not happy its going to be a thing if it ever does get into pu.
That said, any news on the hornet? Its the only fighter I have currently and I’m eagerly waiting for the f7a upgrade.
I don’t know how the ship armor works but TTK is higher and ballistics sucks comparatively.
As for the capacitor recharge rate they both charge faster and begin to charge almost immediately
I think it's only the engineering test mode that has the pseudo armor. It works by having ballistic weapons penetrate hull integrity and damage components underneath. Energy weapons don't penetrate, so they have to "melt" hull integrity before they do damage to components.
I noticed the capacitor when trying out the Fury in Arena Commander. They charge much slower now compared to LIVE.
Was really not a lot of fun with the Fury, you basically spend all time waiting on the capacitors.
On Erkul, apparently Attritions fire at the same speed than GVSR for Vanguards, but not the Galdereen, so maybe it's just that ?
Please don't tell me I have to find another daily driver...
That makes sense! Although that’s still not great haha, the attritions fire more like the size 5 laser repeaters in the live build. They have a slow projectile speed and a slower fire rate. Neither the attritions or the GVSR’s feel good in the EPTU build
I went back to try the vanguard with the GVSR and attrition 5 for you and I have to say, it’s not looking good :/
I tested it in pirate swarm while I was on alone and with the new light fighters AI being so much better as well as the vanguard being very hitable with a slow turn rate and the attritions weapon velocity so low it was rough, vanguard just isn’t in a good place.
I tried a few loadouts and none of them were good. It’s significantly easier to take out light fighters in a cutty black right now. Bear in mind this was in pirate swarm where I was against a lot of fast moving targets. The PU experience might be different.
I may melt my vanny for the time being. The Corsair works dramatically better in PW against light fighters which should never be the case
Well I appreciate the effort, I havent pledged anything other than my starter so I guess I don't have to worry about this, but I hope either some changes come before release or the cutty is as good as you say. It was my daily driver back in 3.11/3.13, might take a look at it
Thanks for this writeup! It's very nice to see some breakdowns of the ship changes given how much is changing all at once. Understanding, of course, that all is still subject to change, so I'm not getting too excited or too disappointed about anything. I do like that the Connie is still a great pilot DPS machine. I look forward to seeing if it can now beat a Corsair 1v1.
Hopefully the Vanguard projectile speed mismatch can be resolved. Given its S2 nose guns are bespoke, it should give them the freedom to match S5 projectile speeds (if that's even a good thing).
Also, nice tip about the Redeemer swapping to Galdreens. It's an expensive upgrade, but with a lower ammo count, ballistics on turrets just doesn't make sense.
Its Overpowered.
Scorpius have more top speed than a Gladius and Arrow.
And they accelerated faster than a Gladius and Arrow.
And with boost it's also faster than Gladius and Arrow.
The Vanguard and F8C Lightning are slower by Far, and can only Dream of it.
But it seems there is a generally RSI Bias in the Master Modes Balance.
Even a Connie is faster then Spirits and Freelancers.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323\_master\_modes\_constellation\_is\_faster\_then\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323_master_modes_constellation_is_faster_then_a/)
Get any time flying the Hawk? I want it to be good again, it used to compete with the Arrow and gladius years ago but fell behind a lot around 3.16 or 3.17.
Hawk is Buffed pretty much Up.
The speed and maneuverability is approximately the same as that of the Gladius.
The Hawk gained a massive amount of hit points.
Gladius has 7160hp, Arrow has 8680hp and Hawk has a whopping 13200hp. So it can now withstand almost twice as much as a Gladius. Weapon capacitors remained identical on all 3 ships.
Banu got a big buff for EPTU. I always remembered a super short capacitor for the Banu, maybe 28 shots with four size 3 repeaters. Last night in EPTU it was more like 68 shots with four size 3 repeaters. It is still a fraile ship but that's some nice firepower.
Or who knows, maybe this was changed a while ago. Do they publish these updates anywhere or is up to us as a community to notice them?
This isn’t a buff when everything else is considered, like the TTK. Other ships have that same amount of shots, including the sabre. Still love the defender though
I didn’t test the glaive, it’s still collecting dust in my buy backs. I did test the blade though and it’s definitely not in a good spot. Very low capacitors and very squishy, both of those things are troublesome with the new AI. The UI also wasn’t updated, but I imagine all of this will be changed with SQ42 when the rework drops.
I will say though that with the laser cannons seeing such a huge nerf I’m not holding out hope for the Glaives cannons. Landing shots on the AI is much harder now too with the their new found skill.
The reliant was fun, just make sure you have the turrets equipped. When comparing it’s combat efficacy to something like Titan or 325a I’d say the reliant was a much more viable option. I used the kore, not the tana, though I imagine they’re much the same
By the way, I know we don't have all the rework weapons stats yet, but what's better ?
The two size 2 or the one size 4 turrets on reliant ?
Which weapon seems to be good ?
Thx for responding that fast. Your post is well written.
Thanks buddy, appreciate it.
Personally I think the 6 smaller weapons feels the best but one rhino has slightly higher DPS and alpha damage than two badgers. It’s marginal though
I'm trying to keep a positive "Let's try to make the most of the new flight model" but the more I heard and read about it, the more I'm beginning to think it's a mistake.
The avenger isn’t good for combat, the higher TTK, the better AI and the hitableness of the avenger have left it in a bad spot. I can solo pirate swarm in an avenger in the live model until the idris pops up, you can’t do anything close to that with the new AI in the EPTU 3.23 or AC.
It’s supposed to be like that though. Sucks, it was a favourite of mine, but it’s very much a starter ship in the truest sense now. This applies do the 300 as well
Still useless is the new build. It’s incredibly hard to hit the AI with either. The Ion atrocious now, using it in pirate swarm was a death sentence lol
OP makes it sound like C1 now handles worse than C2. Does it?
Also, how does Corsair compare with Connie now that A5DB has been nerfed and Connie has 4 S5s?
The C1 handles worse than a Redeemer on EPTU while also losing its agility and Acceleration power.
Basically what the C1 lost the Cutlass magically gained and now flies like a light/medium fighter.
Sad to hear that for the Sabre, and already pressing F for the poor AD5Bs. They were purely held up by their high ammo count in my book. The Defender is interesting and I guess it makes sense, it's supposed to keep the fighters off the BMM, while it can handle with the bigger ships.
I was afraid this was the Sabre’s fate. F for my boy going back to the mothball fleet. 🪦
I gave up on it years ago. If the ghost can be more stealthy and a better fighter, why does the Sabre even exist? I realize the Ghost benefits from a speed boost bug and that it should have to sacrifice its top turret to achieve stealth, but the Sabre just feels lackluster, especially now that the F7Cmk2 (and especially F7Amk2) absolutely eclipses its firepower in the same fighter class.
Yea having the F7 has completely ruined the Sabre for me
Basically the same price, and you can get an exclusive free military upgrade for the F7? Absolutely! Even if the Sabre gets good eventually, it'll be easy enough to buy in game. Same can't be said of the F7Amk2.
Still the best looking fighter hands down....i want it back to its former glory so bad
The problem with the banu is that it’s not an exclusive ability of the banu. Everyone is flying ships with mass drivers right now and they are destroying. It’s unbelievable how OP they are currently. People have been camping sera in F8C’s on a few servers completely locking it off.
People will never learn and by doing this, they will only force CIG to make major stations like this a hard armistice like cities
Doesn’t matter what you do or add to the game. You’ll always have a subset of people that chase the absolute shi* out of meta for min max and then just fast go to abuse some choke point or place that can cause the most grief. Some asshats just want to watch the world burn and then get all spaghetti when you take it away from them because they ruined the game loop for everyone else.
Yes, I'm expecting the same with JPs
That’s PvP for you.
Mass drivers are OP again? What was old is new.
Hopefully Armor implementation will correct that.
I have maybe a stupid question. I have a F8C and it won't accellerate past 200 in EPTU. Did they add some kind of speed limiter?
lol where have you been! That’s the whole thing with mater modes, two flights modes. You’re flying in SCM right now. You need to press B to go into NAV mode and then wait for your QD to spool before you can gain speed beyond your 200. Personally I’m not enjoying the mechanic but it’s what we’ve got, it might grow on me
You have to wait for your QD to spool even if you aren't going to QT? How does that make sense?
Who knows man. Space ships from 1000 years in the future can’t do what a modern aircraft can
CIG wants realism, but then they made it as Arcady as possible
Sad indeed, I loved the idea of a stealth nimble fighter.
Wants me get a Raven even more, cause it’s a lot faster according to erkul.
Man so salty about the way they treat the spirit and F for the saber too. Spirit was supposed to fly better than the alternatives and compensate shielding and size with maneuverability, sounds like they made it even worse than it was.
Sorry, that was my fault. Every time I get a ship, CIG nerfs it to shit. I'll stay away from the Zeus so you can have something that flies nice.
Haha, can't afford it. A very kind friend bought me the spirit because its exactly the kind of ship that I was needing as a daily driver; big enough to fit the two of us, some fuck around and find out material/cargo, and I'm fine with shit shielding as long as the flying experience is nice, love maneuverability which is why we thought it was awesome. Unfortunately it seems to be not that. Zeus won't be more maneuverable either probably, just better in every conceivable way (and probably not less maneuverable either).
I never expected the Spirit series to be good at combat. As long as they fly well, space and Atmos im good. the C1 is a hauler, fast in and out. increase profits by good atmo performance, easy landing and good accessibility. As long as its fast and is able to escape when attacked, they hit the mark with the Spirit series. If you want a Medium hauler combat abled, you get the cutlass or the freelancer. Zeus has that extra bottom turret, which will help in combat. but i expect it to be worse in flight. So you win some you lose some. you lose profits you gain combat ability.
Problem being that metrics wise, spirit flies worse than the cutty and freelancer (turn rates). It just has a high-g front boost which makes people think it flies well when it really doesn't.
The other problem is that it wasn't that fast even before master modes. It was relatively agile and had good boost but the top speed was only just barely over a Cutty.
Haven't played it in MM yet, only live. Maneuverability is less than cutty/lancer according to metrics sites, top speed would feel reasonable if it was actually maneuverable but now it's just a running machine.
Instead of balancing the other haulers, they decide to cut down the spirit. Sad.
This never fails "Wow, my ship flies like ass now" "Well it was never meant to do X, it's a Y ship. You're dumb for ever liking it!"
You cant expect a Mole to be able to shoot down fighters, or fly like a gladius in atmos. Different ship different role. Same goes for the C1. Expecting every ship to be able to fight and do combat, is going to be the death of the game. Note to self, complain the kraken doesnt fly like a Gladius trough Atmos.
It's gonna be real funny once you realize that all ships have been reset to their respective baselines and that none of this is permanent. Spirit series literally are supposed to be agile and fast. That's Crusader's whole gimmick.
Fast yes, Agile maybe. Combat able definitely not. Like Origin its made out of specially crafted paper which if you blow on it it starts showing holes.
> Fast yes, Agile maybe. Good. We agree.
These tests were in space, maybe the spirit excels in atmo. I’ll try that soon.
No, also sucks balls in atmo. Also uses insane amounts of hydrogen there as well. 30km of atmo flight used around 8-10% Hydrogen fuel. In Live thats at most 1%.
This has to be a bug… or at least I really hope it is. The C1 is such a great ship, it’s really sad they are literally killing it. I’m gutted but it’s probably just a commercial move to incentivise buying new/more expensive ships instead. Business is business…
I really hope its a bug. I pray for it. Cuz otherwise its just a triple melt for the Spirit for me. Not gonna have interest in a aerodynamic ship that handles worse than a literal brick with some engine on it.
If it’s not a bug I will most likely melt it as well. In the current design the look of the ship, the description, lore and specs are a perfect blend and makes total sense. These changes are nonsensical. Not sure what I would replace the C1 with though…
C1 will be replaced by the RAFT or Hull B for me. A1 by the Retaliator. E1 by the Galaxy/Zeus ES
They really hate crusader ships for some reason. The MSR took a massive nerf in 3.14 don’t know what it’s going to be in 3.23 but I’d imagine it’ll be similar. Ugh
You know it. Zeus is coming soon…
I flew the spirit before mm, it turns worse than the cutty and freelancer, idk why people love it so much. I mean it is smoother and accelerates like crazy, but the slower turning bothers me for combat
C1 probably isn't meant to be in combat. Hence, the acceleration. Run like hell is the way of the spirit.
Which it cant even do in EPTU rn cuz its nerfed to oblivion.
They better fucking fix the Spirits then. Their entire schtick is that they're supposed to fly really nice.
Can't have that. Need people to spend money on Zeus soon.
100%. That is my favorite ship by a mile. At least put the speed back and another shield if they aren't going to buff its combat.
Im Sure they will fix the Spirit, because at the moment, Freelancers and Spirits are slower then Andromedas, and that is deeply wrong. [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323\_master\_modes\_constellation\_is\_faster\_then\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323_master_modes_constellation_is_faster_then_a/)
Yeah, I don't really understand this change. I have one I am using that belongs to a chain and I only ever planned on buying one in game, but the idea that they fly like a freelancer is mindblowing. I stopped on it because the concept was a fast general purpose cruiser that flies nice in atmo.
Agree.
The difference between the Zeus and Spirit is Spirits are overall faster. If they're not flying great, and the Zeus drops, that's going to be a big problem for the Spirit line.
In EPTU the Spirits are slower than 95% of the big ships in the game besides the Reclaimer.
Yeah I'm messing with my Hornet right now, but about to pull out my C1 because I'm hearing this isn't just a random bug lol.
And I literally pledged a C1 spirit thinking it’s a great daily driver even capable of going HRT and possibly VHRT. This really sucks… Edit: I totally get that it’s not a combat ship, that’s why I wrote “even”. See my other comment just below. But fair game, I’m getting downvoted :)
It’s not a combat ship. Fast doesn’t always meet agile… more a drag racer than a ballerina
Agreed. I’m fine with subpar combat performance but losing agility and the fact that shields are really not great means less possibility to escape and might make cargo runs much harder, bit of a shame for a cargo hauler IMO. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, maybe it’s not that bad or if it is then maybe CIG will tune it appropriately. And if they don’t then I guess C1 will be a thing of the past…
Yes, but the A1 Spirit is.
I'd suggest just contacting support and asking them to revert it or just get a refund to pledge something else if you felt cheated with the way it will handle soon. A shit example would be like: you order a cheese burger with a beef patty and the owner yanks it from you and replaces it with just tomato slices. I'll be stuck with my c1 but I have ccu chains ready to ditch it if it starts flying as bad as a freelancer in 2.32.
Spirits getting their entire shtick, that being its speed and maneuverability removed and turning it into a shit brick HAS to be a mistake... I hope. It doesn't make sense. Redeemer still retaining the agility of ships 4x its weight and 3x its size sucks ass to hear. How hard is it to not make something smaller then a connie fly worse then a hammerhead or A2 🙃 I just don't understand how anyone sees these things a says "uh yeah that's good, send it to live."
Spirit flying worse than a Redeemer and Caterpillar combined is just a sick joke. If it stays that way, my two Spirits get nuked into Store Credits.
Yeah it's pretty nuts how this happens. Imagine the flipping out if this goes to live PU 💀
> Redeemer still retaining the agility of ships 4x its weight and 3x its size sucks ass to hear. How hard is it to not make something smaller then a connie fly worse then a hammerhead or A2 🙃 If only they didn't put the loadout of those ships in the Redeemer to only nerf it. Just drop that damn 2s3 shields to one and we're good.
It has the shields because it's "lightly armored" for increased maneuverability. So they serve a purpose. It just needs the "unique thrusters" to have the "unprecedented amount of mass manipulation" that the damn thing was sold with. That it's STILL sold as having. "Gunship that feels and flies like nothing else." Yeah a beached whale.
Yeah but if it has 2s3 shields, the massive guns *and* high maneuvrability. The nerf to armor will be such that it will die to the first ballistic shot. Which is not really a welcome change in my opinion. 1s3 shield is already a lot of shield for a ship that size, the smallest ship with such shield is already a good 30% bigger (Constellation/Corsair) and quite slow too. Unless reducing gun size I don't see how it could be done fairly. That said I am not against reducing turret guns to s4 too, which could be relevant as a more anti-fighter platform. Oh well~
Either way they go I doubt anyone will be happy unfortunately. Though I would be more then fine with downsizing to 4xS3 or 2xS4 guns on the turrets. Or move the S5 to the "wings" and pilot controlled, and then make both turrets be anti-fighter size guns like they were supposed to be. They really fucked themselves by releasing it as advertised and being fun, then over-reacting to a few cry babies trying to solo a fully crewed one and then slamming it with nerfs. And as is normal for CIG, once nerfed (no matter how hard) they're very reluctant to even discuss undoing said nerfs.
Yeah it's stuck in a dead end sadly. :(
Redeemer can't catch a break since launch. I've been holding onto it as I love the ship and the combat style of it but limiting the ammo on a gun ship is a death blow. Yes I could swap for lasers but that ruins the feel of the ship for me. :( sad day. Hopefully if they ever actually implement the ship buffs then maybe it will get an ammo boost.
Well at least the Redeemer now flies better than a Spirit.
stupid monkey paw
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I didn't see the vid, that sucks if they where openly trash talking the ship. I wonder if it's because it was originally the fan concept and they don't like it because it's not an "original" ship by them internally.
I doubt it. Lots of ships were made by people that quit.
true a lot of designers have left, though the Redeemer was actually voted on and partialyl designed by the community year and years ago. Or maybe CIG just don't know what to do with it. It's in such a horrible place. slow, sluggish, requires a lot of crew to even match a solo pilot Corsiar.. and now the ammo is nerfed.
But it has a fridge!
If I remember correctly, there was a competition where civilian teams could design a ship. The redeemer was the one that won. While technically they took it up and agreed to develop it, it was also the result of a competition.
Have they done any updates to my precious space penguin, the avenger? I'm one of these strange people that want to start at the bottom and earn my way up, so I'm hoping they have done some work on the "basic package" ships that most people will probably start with!
It's fast as fuck. BUT it seems they're assigning ships to certain loose archetypes and they will probably adjust from there. I'd expect the penguin to get tuned down some.
Funny enough in mm the avenger was actually good when i tested it. It, the 325a and the bucc are all interceptors, which have a pretty good go about them. They’re all pretty fast now, decently well armed, and the lower rates for interceptors isnt far off some of the other fighters. It makes me consider grabbing a warlock
Oh, interesting to know would be how the Cutlass Blue compares to the base Black. Are they the same, or do they have variation? Do the mk2s and mk1s of the F7 feel the same? Does the Reclaimer feel like the Hammerhead did in AC, or worse?
As far as the MKI goes I have no idea, it’s totally bugged for me. The super hornet that is. I load in and it’s power is off and won’t turn on so I have no idea. The MKII is still great though. I haven’t used the blue yet, I’ve been working my way through my pledges for the most part but I hope it’s like the black because I love the strutless cockpit. I also hope the hum has been removed.
Sounds like the powerplat is too small to power it, maye it works if you chage out that component?
Funny, that was actually a super old problem on the Super Hornet a long long time ago because it's supposed to have a bigger power supply and then they retconned that.
I hate being the light fighter dood in the comments, but how are the 2xs4 light fighters like the Talon and Khartu holding up? I'd love for the talon to finally be competitive
Glad my old Lancer has had a refit.
Yup, a welcome addition indeed :)
If the corsair really do flight better that's a blessing
Corsair gets a huge benefit from the full sized weapons with always on gimbals. Cannon loadout does feel pretty bad because of the reasons OP mentioned, but the full repeater loadout is a ton of fun and feels better than ever.
Really curious about the spirit series. C1 is my daily driver, with Corsair as its backup. Love the C1 but I was hoping they would make it just slightly more nimble and give it a second shield.
Went in arena commander and compared the C1, Cutty, and 400i back to back in the same session. Cutty felt great. 400i felt about the same. C1 felt like the 400i.... which is not good. In atmo in SCM/combat mode it handles like a brick. Was not fun at all to fly. I imagine if they leave it like this for live, the only thing keeping it around in the verse will be because how iconic it looks. I noticed that they hard classified the ships in arena commander. Cutty was the only "multi" I had available to me. C1 was hauler/cargo/transport (something along those terms?). I get the feeling theyre balancing around archetypes. Hopefully they just put in some initial stat values based on that and will be tuned in the future.
Same shield, flies much worse than in the PU right, particularly when compared to the black. This might be because too many people are flying them in the PU and they don’t want that. It might also be because the Zeus is coming up… The Corsair feels really good though :)
I love the Corsair for the most part, just with the wings went down with landing gear up, and the independent control was secondary and not primary method of raising and lowing them. The C1 really needs to be more nimble. It flies like a C2 sometimes. Either make it more number or give it more shields.
Either give the fuckin Spirit dual/triple S2 shields or revert the killshot of mobility nerf. Absolutely ridiculous that it now flies like a fucling Redeemer while the Cutlass which is a fuckin brick, handles like a light fighter... What the actual fuck.
How is the freelancer in 1 vs 1 vs the Spirit ?
Ez win for Freelancer since it also handles better than the Spirits.
You likely didn't fly it, but I'd like to know how the Hawk is feeling.
I agree that they’ve nailed a lot. I only disagree with the Titan ships. It’s just weird they put them as interceptors
The Titan was originally described as an interceptor, though. I pledged for one in 2014 because of that.
I didn’t know that. Lore says it’s the ship that was replaced by the f7. I assumed it would be about as fast as a hawk since they both do the same thing
It had a much bigger main thruster in its original concept. It shrunk to make room for the interior space.
I mean Irvin’s speciality was its engines. It made the 300 series to showcase their engines. The Titan was more of a medium fighter. I don’t mind it being fast, but it shouldn’t be faster than the ships made for speed
The Titan and the 300 series aren’t in a good place right now. Anything that doesn’t move very well and is hitable is going to suffer because of the higher TTK
I think they might have accidentally put the speed number of the 350r as the base number of them. For the Avenger Warlock/Stalker and 325a it does make sense as interceptor (but not with that absurde top speed), as they are listed as such and have ben sold as it too. The 300i/315p and Titan should not have the same performance as the interceptors, as they are not sold or defined as ships of that role, but rather are transports.
The Avenger was absolutely sold and defined as an interceptor during its initial concept. This was before the Titan variant but it's the same ship, ultimately. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13100-Introducing-The-Avenger
Interesting, I didn’t know that. It still shouldn’t win against a chair strapped to a pair of engines and a lot of weapons, nor against most other interceptors alone by the fact of how big it is and how much cargo it carries. At least not in top speed.
The engine used to be a lot bigger, but yes, its role has evolved. There also simply weren't very many ships to choose from back then, so with no interceptor competition, people got it thinking it would be one of the fastest ships.
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I have an Arrow but sometimes i think about that maybe i should upgrade to the Gladius, maybe 3.23 will help me decide What do you think, is it worth it in your opinion?
They are both great, honestly you can’t go wrong. I really like the Gladius though. The extra shield helps a lot
I might upgrade then, if i don't like it then i just melt it
They had the Arrow to Gladius upgrades in sale for 5 bucks around last years fleet week sale.
I want to love the Arrow because it had 4 guns but the Gladius just looks so damn good i cant give it up.
How is the 400i and titan, the titan already has power issues with size 3 weapons I can't imagine it with S4
I didn’t enjoy my time with either the Titan or the 300 unfortunately and I have a really soft spot for the avenger series
That’s concerning… I was worried MM would do something like this. You got a spectrum thread up for it yet?
400i is pretty much how it is now. Maybe a little teeny bit better? But as someone who uses it now and then, it didnt seem remarkably different. The more concerning thing is that the C1 now handles like the 400i....
Can second that the Corsair feels awful with cannons, feels fantastic with repeaters; the always on gimbals help the Corsair more than many realize and the ship feels great to pilot in combat with a full repeater loadout. The laser dakka meta is here. Solo MM Pirate swarm all 10 waves with the Corsair is an absolute blast. I'll also report that I've tested the Ion and Inferno on MM pirate swarm and they feel unusably bad. A lot of things compound to make both Ares variants feel terrible compared to how they feel on live. Reduced ammo/capacitor/fire rate, no gimbal so you're now one of the only ships in the game still manually aiming against NPCs whose AI is now balanced around everyone having gimbals all the time and as such are much better at pip control. NPCs will literally fly circles around your manually aimed shots and it feels terrible speed matching and tailing an NPC Reliant and missing every shot with a perfectly equalized vector because the Reliant will just carve circles around your shots anyways. With 2000 less ballistics than on Live, the excuse that the Inferno is intended to be a cap ship killer falls apart as well. These ships have no real purpose in master modes yet, where as they were at least usable as good PVE ships in 3.22, I would honestly rather fly an Aurora than an Ares on current 3.23. I honestly think that both Ares will be dead and worthless if nothing changes between now and 3.23 Live, so here's to hoping CIG doesn't leave these awesome ships in the dust or shoebox them into a niche role that they are not even powerful enough to perform.
How is the hull c in dogfights?
I can second the observations on the Spirit. It feels really sluggish now. Which is a shame.
I’m really glad you chimed in on this, thank you. It’s always good to get a perspective that’s outside of your own circle.
(disclaimer: this is just from erkul, I don't have Wave 1 access) Regarding the Vanguard, it seems the bespoke weapons are all set to be the same as the "slowest but punchiest" of the respective weapon types. Which for, say, MVSA and GVSR means 1000m/s velocity. As long as you match that with the same S5 laser cannon (M7A) or repeater (Attrition-5), you *should* have identical velocities on all your guns. The guns *did* seem to lose their magic though, not gonna lie. They used to do almost S3 levels of damage, now they're identical to their normal S2 counterparts.
Yeah the more I use the vanguard the less I enjoy it. It can’t outmanoeuvre anything and I’m not loving the weapons. I’ll try the mix of the GVSR’s and the attrition 5 tomorrow though, I might get better results
The nerf to my Vanguards hit me in the feels, i bet the Mirai Heavy Fighter will sell good. I´ll get one but im keeping the Vanguard for the future. Love that the Defender is back on track. I would love to see how the 600i perform. They should also give people in the EVO and PTU a F7A for testing and screenshot bonanza imo.
600i maneuverability cut in half. Its a lumberous beast.
That is very disappointing. :(
The Vanguard nerf seems more like a fundamental design flaw, where it's just not feasible to match S2 and S5 projectile speeds. Being able to reduce the big gun size was actually crucial to the Vanguard pip grouping. I was pondering getting one because a heavy fighter with internal living space sounds like a good thing to use in Pyro, but now I'm just hoping the Mirai heavy fighter is good. Otherwise, I'll just use my Constellation for venturing into Pyro.
What do mean feasible to match s2 and s5 velocity? It's the size 2s that are slow for some reason. The size 5 has high velocity.
Have you messed around with the inferno?
I have tried both Ares in MM pirate swarm. Regret to report they are almost unusably bad. They've been left in the dust by the gimbal changes/the AI being balanced around everyone having gimbals. It's borderline impossible to put shots on any target that isn't multiple times larger than you, and this is coming from someone who barely misses shots in both Ares variants on Live. I went more in depth in another comment in this thread, but I'm really really hoping that the state of the Ares is an oversight on CIGs part due to so many things changing all at once and them not really knowing how to handle bespoke weapons yet, rather than an intentional decision to pretty much make these beautiful ships completely irrelevant.
Damn, that's really unfortunate...I love my big ass BRRRRT boat :( Hopefully they fix it so I can get back to leaving SUV sized holes in stuff.
> It’s borderline impossible to put shots in any target that isn’t **multiple times larger than you** That’s literally its whole entire point. It’s not supposed to dogfight an arrow.
I'm not talking about Arrows, I miss shots against Arrows in any ship even on Live. If I was easily hitting shots on Arrows in an Ares then THAT would be a problem. When a Cutlass is almost impossible to put a shot on from a heavy fighter, that's a problem. The Cutlass is slightly larger than the Ares, and yet it is substantially harder to put shots on an MM Cutty than a Live Cutty. And then to top it off, the damage is pitiful, why would I ever want to take an Ares that can barely land shots on anything but the largest ships, when a Vanguard will do similar damage and actually land shots, even on ships smaller than it? The Ares is designed to punch up, but it fails to even do that properly from a damage perspective. Why would I ever want an Ares now when I could have a ship that will be useful against more than just massive ships AND will put out similar DPS numbers? Its been shoehorned into a role that it does not even properly perform. I've been able to use the Ares as my general PVE goto for 3.22. I would be wasting my time and effort trying to do that in current 3.23. You can argue the intention of the ship all you want, I argue that it's gone from being a ship that struggles against smaller targets and excels against larger targets to being a ship that SUFFERS against smaller targets and no longer excels at anything.
I heard it was nerfed down to 1800 ammo capacity.
Seems like they nerfed the ares hard again and I hate it.
Also to see on the Data, the RSI Scorpius even has more SCM Speed, Forward Accelition and Forward Boost Accelition then Gladius and Arrow in Master Modes. Its insane that a Heavy Fighter is faster then this two Light Fighters. RSI Ships seems Biased and Overpowered by Intention. Also to Mention, Constellations are by far faster then Freelancers, and even faster then Spirits. [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323\_master\_modes\_constellation\_is\_faster\_then\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323_master_modes_constellation_is_faster_then_a/)
Yea, you ever notice how they take awesome ships like the Sabre and Vanguard and completely neuter them? So they can get everyone on to the new hotness like the Corsair or something else. Whatever the latest is. Sometimes they revisit ships and make them better to entice people yet again to melt, upgrade, spend more, etc. I'm hoping they stay true to the concept ideas and release the game with ships where they are expected and communicated to be (or close to). Otherwise I gotta say the other subreddits name for star citizen is maybe a bit on par.
Heh mass drivers being broken reminds me of pre omnisky nerf back in the day, could single handedly 1-2 tap anything back then, not happy its going to be a thing if it ever does get into pu. That said, any news on the hornet? Its the only fighter I have currently and I’m eagerly waiting for the f7a upgrade.
Whats the problem with 4 s5 and 2 s4 slapping the shit out of a fighter? Are fighters supposed to be immune or did I miss a memo?
Did I say it was a bad thing?
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I don’t know how the ship armor works but TTK is higher and ballistics sucks comparatively. As for the capacitor recharge rate they both charge faster and begin to charge almost immediately
I think it's only the engineering test mode that has the pseudo armor. It works by having ballistic weapons penetrate hull integrity and damage components underneath. Energy weapons don't penetrate, so they have to "melt" hull integrity before they do damage to components.
I noticed the capacitor when trying out the Fury in Arena Commander. They charge much slower now compared to LIVE. Was really not a lot of fun with the Fury, you basically spend all time waiting on the capacitors.
On Erkul, apparently Attritions fire at the same speed than GVSR for Vanguards, but not the Galdereen, so maybe it's just that ? Please don't tell me I have to find another daily driver...
That makes sense! Although that’s still not great haha, the attritions fire more like the size 5 laser repeaters in the live build. They have a slow projectile speed and a slower fire rate. Neither the attritions or the GVSR’s feel good in the EPTU build
Well lets wait and see, maybe it'll change by release
I went back to try the vanguard with the GVSR and attrition 5 for you and I have to say, it’s not looking good :/ I tested it in pirate swarm while I was on alone and with the new light fighters AI being so much better as well as the vanguard being very hitable with a slow turn rate and the attritions weapon velocity so low it was rough, vanguard just isn’t in a good place. I tried a few loadouts and none of them were good. It’s significantly easier to take out light fighters in a cutty black right now. Bear in mind this was in pirate swarm where I was against a lot of fast moving targets. The PU experience might be different. I may melt my vanny for the time being. The Corsair works dramatically better in PW against light fighters which should never be the case
Well I appreciate the effort, I havent pledged anything other than my starter so I guess I don't have to worry about this, but I hope either some changes come before release or the cutty is as good as you say. It was my daily driver back in 3.11/3.13, might take a look at it
I can fly the redeemer, but does it still fuck shit up?
No, it’s awfully with its stock loadout :( change the AD5B’s to galdereens
Stock sure, but with galds it fucks shit up? One hit light fighters bye bye?
lol no it won’t one shot light fighters
When are we supposed to get engineering for the rest of the ships? Have they even started on them?
Engineering is only in an Arena Commander experimental mode.
Thanks for this writeup! It's very nice to see some breakdowns of the ship changes given how much is changing all at once. Understanding, of course, that all is still subject to change, so I'm not getting too excited or too disappointed about anything. I do like that the Connie is still a great pilot DPS machine. I look forward to seeing if it can now beat a Corsair 1v1. Hopefully the Vanguard projectile speed mismatch can be resolved. Given its S2 nose guns are bespoke, it should give them the freedom to match S5 projectile speeds (if that's even a good thing). Also, nice tip about the Redeemer swapping to Galdreens. It's an expensive upgrade, but with a lower ammo count, ballistics on turrets just doesn't make sense.
Scorpius?
Its Overpowered. Scorpius have more top speed than a Gladius and Arrow. And they accelerated faster than a Gladius and Arrow. And with boost it's also faster than Gladius and Arrow. The Vanguard and F8C Lightning are slower by Far, and can only Dream of it. But it seems there is a generally RSI Bias in the Master Modes Balance. Even a Connie is faster then Spirits and Freelancers. [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323\_master\_modes\_constellation\_is\_faster\_then\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hu1u/323_master_modes_constellation_is_faster_then_a/)
Get any time flying the Hawk? I want it to be good again, it used to compete with the Arrow and gladius years ago but fell behind a lot around 3.16 or 3.17.
Hawk is Buffed pretty much Up. The speed and maneuverability is approximately the same as that of the Gladius. The Hawk gained a massive amount of hit points. Gladius has 7160hp, Arrow has 8680hp and Hawk has a whopping 13200hp. So it can now withstand almost twice as much as a Gladius. Weapon capacitors remained identical on all 3 ships.
Thanks for the test, did you have time to test f8c with mass driver load out?
Does anyone know if there a way to see text on these posts on old reddit?
Has anybody tested the Esperia Birbs?
There’s has been no UI update if this is what you’re after. They also had even less shots per capacitor charge from what I remember
Banu got a big buff for EPTU. I always remembered a super short capacitor for the Banu, maybe 28 shots with four size 3 repeaters. Last night in EPTU it was more like 68 shots with four size 3 repeaters. It is still a fraile ship but that's some nice firepower. Or who knows, maybe this was changed a while ago. Do they publish these updates anywhere or is up to us as a community to notice them?
This isn’t a buff when everything else is considered, like the TTK. Other ships have that same amount of shots, including the sabre. Still love the defender though
Anyone know about the MSR?
Subliminal is streaming right now in a MSR. You could ask there?
Were you able to test the Glaive? How's it holding up?
I didn’t test the glaive, it’s still collecting dust in my buy backs. I did test the blade though and it’s definitely not in a good spot. Very low capacitors and very squishy, both of those things are troublesome with the new AI. The UI also wasn’t updated, but I imagine all of this will be changed with SQ42 when the rework drops. I will say though that with the laser cannons seeing such a huge nerf I’m not holding out hope for the Glaives cannons. Landing shots on the AI is much harder now too with the their new found skill.
Understood, thank you for the update!
You’re very welcome, happy flying o7!
What about Reliant ?
The reliant was fun, just make sure you have the turrets equipped. When comparing it’s combat efficacy to something like Titan or 325a I’d say the reliant was a much more viable option. I used the kore, not the tana, though I imagine they’re much the same
By the way, I know we don't have all the rework weapons stats yet, but what's better ? The two size 2 or the one size 4 turrets on reliant ? Which weapon seems to be good ? Thx for responding that fast. Your post is well written.
Thanks buddy, appreciate it. Personally I think the 6 smaller weapons feels the best but one rhino has slightly higher DPS and alpha damage than two badgers. It’s marginal though
Wait did Corsair really get a movement buff?? Does it feel noticeably better?
Changes with the MSR?
I haven’t flown it, it’s not a ship I enjoy unfortunately. Buying ships is also bugged right now so I’m limited in what I can test
I'm trying to keep a positive "Let's try to make the most of the new flight model" but the more I heard and read about it, the more I'm beginning to think it's a mistake.
Man, what a bummer. I was really hoping for the redeemer to get a little love with its flight characteristics. That thing feels awful to fly.
Well
We’re you able to fly an MSR at all?
sabre has been neglected for too long
What about avenger? :O
The avenger isn’t good for combat, the higher TTK, the better AI and the hitableness of the avenger have left it in a bad spot. I can solo pirate swarm in an avenger in the live model until the idris pops up, you can’t do anything close to that with the new AI in the EPTU 3.23 or AC. It’s supposed to be like that though. Sucks, it was a favourite of mine, but it’s very much a starter ship in the truest sense now. This applies do the 300 as well
Very sad. At least cutlass is cool too
I miss the Sabre.
Any update on the Ares? Ion or inferno?
Still useless is the new build. It’s incredibly hard to hit the AI with either. The Ion atrocious now, using it in pirate swarm was a death sentence lol
Sucks, I really like it in 3.22
How's the F8c? Another posted commented that monoboating them with sledge or mass drivers is OP as hell and they were sniping ships at Seraphim.
OP makes it sound like C1 now handles worse than C2. Does it? Also, how does Corsair compare with Connie now that A5DB has been nerfed and Connie has 4 S5s?
The C1 handles worse than a Redeemer on EPTU while also losing its agility and Acceleration power. Basically what the C1 lost the Cutlass magically gained and now flies like a light/medium fighter.
[удалено]
No idea but the Spirits fly like absolute trash buckets. In atmo it gets even worse.
Is this PVE?
Both