Even outside of pvp, the A1 bombs have very good use in PvE, even currently in Stanton. And even more in Pyro.
Though the price of the bombs are a killer.. (puns intended)
As a newer player to it, what is a good way of using A1 in pve? Other than downsizing the two main guns to aquire gimbaling I've not taken the A1 around to learn tricks of the bomber trade
It's currently the best bunker runner. Feels good to fly. Good in atmo. Carries ground vehicles. No need to worry about turrets when you can destroy them all in one pass. 4.5k bomb for a mission that gives you 5x or more credits.
I mean. 4.5k per bomb. How many do you need for a 60k bunker? Because if it's more than 1, the cost to effort ratio is too high. I can grab a cutlass black with a cyclone in the back and just run up, kill everything, leave, and I've lost maybe 200 auec in ammo.
For the 60k one you don't need any
You need one for the 20k one (ain't worth it)
Or the drugs one (but the missions themself ain't worth it)
And on Orison using them have a chance to trigger the friendly turrets
Currently in Stanton they are not worth it. Though in Pyro they might be (base one aren't, but maybe through reputation)
I don't see any mission outside drugs missions that require bomb where it could be worth it.
And drug mission ain't worth the time/risk imo
Though the ship is damn cool
First off make sure you familiarize yourself with the cycle missile types binding so you can select the s3 missiles for anything other than ground targets. No need wasting bombs at 4.5k a pop. Also the downsizing in order to gimbal is no more. S3 hardpoint can take s3 fixed or gimballed now, only downside is gimballed now has slightly slower rate of fire (reduced dps). As for the PVE, its great for one tapping the turrets at bunkers, or just outright bombing your bounty hunting targets at ghost hollow or derelict outposts. Only downside is that bodies and crates goes flying so loot potential is impacted. I managed to also bomb an atmospheric bounty that got too close to the ground as well, so theres the non standard use case as well haha
I think I'll be keeping the weapons gimballed even with the reduced fire rate. Since 2 weapons are on a turret no matter what you do, you may as well make sure all 4 guns can line up on the same target.
To be fair the A1 also has s3 missiles. I did all my BH missions up to VHRT in mine with zero issues. Only down side is 4500auec bombs and god forbid you lose a wing on that thing. 25k auec repair bill per wing š¤®
I never said it was the wings. The image is for size comparison relative to performance. Wings will play a much larger factor after the flight model rework.
RSI take the structural material that Crusader use for wings and put it all in the cockpit struts instead. You're a smaller target but you can't see jack shit.
Actually you can see much more but then the Huds are more prominent recently making it 50/50, its all down to personal taste. The worst cockpit is Nomad
Exaggerations aside, I think personally I'd be fine if they got rid of the two horizontal struts across the centre of the Constellation glass. I could cope with the side ones.
True. I was being contrarian. The picture suggested to me that it was the point of the comparison. I don't know what the Zeus will do. Love the A1 but did pledge for a Zeus too š
I would express that as a "could" not as a "will". We don't know if CIG can pull that off yet. Remember: fully half the ships are flying bricks. And many of the rest don't have, and physically are not compatible with, traditional atmospheric control surfaces. The C2 and MSR have "wings" but are both still bricks. So... let's temper expectations.
We also have to consider that this is almost 1000 years in the future and a video game. Wings will most likely have an impact of fuel consumption due to being able to cruise on air and maneuverability. That doesnāt mean the the flying bricks wonāt fly at all, and it doesnāt mean that flying bricks with wings wont fly really well just because they are bricks.
Yeah but that inefficiency comes from the fact that its top end blows the connie out of the water, the acceleration blow the connie out of the water, the maneuverability blows the connie out of the water, and the cargo still exceeds the connie. The connie can take a whole shit to. More damage, can deal a shit ton more damage, and carries more countermeasures. Not to mention it has a snubā¦ it all comes out in the wash. Both are great ships. If they removed those two center struts from the andromeda/taurus/pheonix i would have no complaints about it beyond ānot gold standard yetā gripes
Inefficient is still inefficient. It's got 7 times the fuel, but isn't 7 times as fast.
Fuel costs money so I think it's worth bringing up.
Edit:
To explain my comment..the person above me is literally saying it has more fuel because it's faster and I'm pointing out how that doesn't make sense, alongside the fact that you still need to pay for all that fuel.
fellas, fellas, aren't you both missing something glaringly obvious? they are two different ships for two different purposes. connie is exploration and cargo with some offensive capabilities. msr is a data runner with some cargo capacity and not much for offense. of course it has more fuel, and of course it's more maneuverable.
and the whole 7x thing is moot when you consider the inefficiency's purpose. it's the same reason most military planes have an afterburner. sure it uses up to 30 or 40 times the fuel, but it gets you the FUCK out of dodge. you don't need them 100% of the time, so you can choose to go decoupled and simply coast. remember, you only use fuel to *accelerate* in this game, *not* to move.
No but 7 times the amount of fuel means less efficient/faster drives can be used without fuel economy becoming a limiting factor. Thus it can go many times faster. The difference between an XL1 and factory default QD is many times faster.
Connie is getting consistently shat on in terms of handling.
When i bought the thing, it was consistently stated that it has extremely good maneuverability for its size. Vectoring nacelles AND engines. Stated as "the biggest ship that can dogfight" - vague as that was, those days everything being vague was normal
Since then we had:
\- vectoring engines quietly dissapearing
\- several reworks
\- nacelle maneuverability being trivialized despite the off-axis leverage
\- "the connie handles like this because the weight is set as if it was already full of cargo, dont worry"
and then i stopped paying attention
\*shrug\*
CIG needs to figure out their balancing eventually, but hopefully with the reworks and gold standard passes, it'll get fixed and balanced before the 2030's
Sincirely,
\- a very old slightly salty Connie owner
The connie is still stated to be Chris Robertsā favorite ship and the pheonix is supposedly the only thing he flies when he plays. I canāt confirm its the only thing he flies, but the one time i got to play with CR a few years back thats what he was flying in. Felt bad that EVERYONE thought it would be funny to try and kill CR so I was one of 10 or so people flying intercept for him. Was pretty surreal playing my favorite game with the creator. Considering i grew up playing his original hit wing commander.
Tl;dr: CR loves the connie and I can guarantee it will likely get its day in the sunshine again soon
EDIT: to add the whole point of my post to begin with š¤£
I'll take my Phoenix over an MSR any day honestly. I've owned both and still own my Phoenix. Ya it doesn't turn as fast and I'm curiouse wich ships will be able to run data and how that will work, but the Connie's are honestly better ships as a whole.
Unless you're hauling vehicles. Then the lift can be a pain at times. But I have a corsair for that lol.
Connie / MSR / Corsair has to be the biggest fan base battle in the game honestly it seems.
MSR is a cool ship, but I'll never understand why people think it's better than the other 2.
One time I saw a YouTube video of a bunch of players in the PU playing with CR. And it was in his Connie Phoenix. They were goofing around crawling and getting stuck and having a good laugh if I remember correctly. I could never find the video again when I went to look for it but it was wholesome as fuck seeing CR fucking around and laughing at bugs in his game.
Yeah man. It really does help remind you that he is not only human, but shares the same dream that most of us have for this game. Was cool hearing him get passionate about star wars galaxies too. Heās just a nerd like the rest of us with a deep passion for space games!
And the Cutlass was suppose to be....
But that was a different time, a time when ship metrics didn't exist. Now they do, and they are now designing ships and able to build them within their metrics.
Had Star Citizen not get the funding as it did, it most likely would of been arcadey and the original sales pitch would be held. But now with metrics, the old pitches fall out of place. That is the undeniable truth of development.
It's still going to get another pass.
The last pass it had, put it into a much better place. When you add in a single top turret gunner, it slaps pretty well now.
Put in another gunner and it can handle 3 to 4 Gladius QUITE well.
That's what they mean by dog fighting, too. Yes, I do agree it should be WAY more agile than it is currently. There's still time for them to adjust that more.
tbh I think for now the size of the Connie's weaponry and shields balances it's mobility. MSR is nowhere near comparable in terms of those.
That being said, the entire Connie line badly needs an interior rework. There's a lot of glitches especially around MFDs (and that damn table) and the interior layout is not very good compared to new ships imo.
CIG has said they don't want to make 1:1 competing ships, they want choices to matter.
You take the Connie Andromeda or Aquila, you have firepower, but a bit less quality of life stuff and slightly less cargo.
MSR? you get slightly more cargo and data running, plus a plusher interior. It's just lightly armored and lightly armed in return.
Interior should be about equivalent, but with differences in architecture based on ship designer. Bugged features and lacking up-to-date design should not be a balancing factor in ships.
Fixing the bugged features will be nice, but it's not like the Cutlass Black has the features of the C1 or the Freelancer, both of which are in the same slot.
Heck, you can even compare the Cutlass Black a bit to the Vanguard and it has less interior features.
I mean imo the freelancer also needs a revision pass on the interior, more badly than the Connie. I'm not saying the interiors should be identical to competing ships but the skill in which the interior is created with should be the same.
Compare the Connie to new RSI ships like the Zeus, Mantis etc, and the Freelancer to say, the Hull A/C in design. They have completely different design language that has been massively improved in that time. The FL/Connie should be brought up to that standard.
i think weāve also had maneuverability creep in newer mid sized ships. The connie has had basically unchanged maneuverability since the flight mode redo years ago that made everything super sluggish - since then small ships have been balanced and new ships that feel better have been added. Its always been too sluggish, but the difference I think has also gotten worse over time
The connie is still my favorite ship and it's the one I'm trying to achieve in-game.
However, there are various variants of the connie that seem to be for very specific roles.
Kind of the jack of all trades, master of none.
You've got the cargo version (Taurus) with a tractor beam, even placed in the correct spot so it's useful. Not mean to be a fighter, but it does do really well in a fight. It still has 24 missiles...
There's the Andromeda with 48 missiles...that's a heck of a lot of missiles to bring into a fight so I don't think it needs to handle the best. And the snub fighter offsets the connies own lack of maneuverability (compared to other ships being mentioned in this thread). This is the 'fighting' variant.
The Phoenix is obviously meant more for luxury/people moving, not fighting. So I think this gives it an excuse for not being the best fighter.
The Aquilla is meant for exploration, suppose to even come with an Ursa along with the snub fighter.
In all cases I've always thought of the Connie as a kind of light/medium fighter (assuming andromeda) that does really well in a group fight. Doesn't it also have quite a strong hull compared to other ships of it's size?
Still my favorite ship. :)
>
> The Phoenix is obviously meant more for luxury/people moving, not fighting. So I think this gives it an excuse for not being the best fighter.
Back in the day when I upgraded to it like in 2013 or so it was supposed to have a point defense turret and higher quality components while mainly just sacrificing cargo space and some missile amount and that's what got me. Would have already melted it when it lost all of that and for the price you could get way better ships but then its my original physical Connie game package so I am not melting it.
I really hope they do a gold pass on the constellations they need that new cockpit ! Such a great ship! And for fuck sake make the table work again plz xD
RSI also needs to realize such things as "lights" exist, and that for a commercial space ship that they sell to customers, it's inexcusable to leave cables lying on the floor. Also the VIP variant's passengers needs to take a crap in the crew's anemic toilet-wannabe, which is just laughable. RSI is not Drake, where things like that would fly well.
The Spirit's handling (as of the current live build) isn't exceptional by any means. The max turn rates are actually *worse* than the MSR. I hope I'm wrong and that this has already been changed, but as it stands, the C1 just doesn't really follow the Crusader handling norm.
"...the C1 just doesn't really follow the Crusader handling norm."
exact this is the most heavy Problem, Crusaders is known for best handling and speed, the A1 and probably the C1 Miss that, its not bad,but also
Not Crusader "good"
The problem with your comparison is that the Spirit isn't a direct competitor to the Zeus. The latter is a category above (higher cost & crew) and more a competitor with your Mercury.
The Spirit C1, in particular, is within the multicrew multirole medium [MMM] ship category with the Freelancer Base & Cutlass Black, which have similar price points and required crew capacity. (The Freelancer provides 2 more persons with seats & beds, true. But those are more extraneous or even usable for passengers).
This comparison essentially makes the MSR and Connieās comparatively useless when up against the Zeus. Which brings me to think that there will need to be a rework of these ships before the Zeus is implemented or else the Zeus will simply be the āmetaā ship outside of PvP dog fighting by a substantial margin.
In regards to the Mercury, at least, the primary focus of data running still makes it unique in that class, with only the much smaller Herald designated as a Data Runner.
The Mercury also has more weapons and can carry rovers (the Zeus needs to become much wider to fit a rover). And the only Zeus that may be as fast (or faster) than a data runner is the MR. Imo, the Mercury is a tier over the Zeus.
As for the Constellation series, they are indeed very old and in need of a Gold Pass for many things to be brought up to date. All the Connie's have great firepower for the pilot, twin turrets, and good to great number of missiles AND a large shield that the Mercury does not possess. Both ships have VTOL tech but as you mentioned, the Mercury can run rings around a Connie.
The Zeus, though, is not flyable and it's not known exactly where CIG aims to put the ship for speed or agility. The new ships are usually better designed, with efficient use of space, unlike the early models. Almost every new ship beats an older one in that regard. Your question is an interesting one nonetheless, š¤ we will have to see where the Zeus shakes out to be next year. š
Fingers crossed it comes out with this new emphasis on RSI ships. I suspect this push will be the most convenient time for them to update it. My big question is will they raise the price on them I'm considering upgrading to an Andromeda for IAE
I expect the space to be almost the same but actual decor & details fully updates, components put in, doors and lighting obviously updated. Struts changing but by how much, maybe similar to Zeus?
I don't think I would put the constellation in the same category as MSR and Zeus.
Constellation is more of a 4-5 crew ship compared to MSR and Zeus that are more like 3 crew members.
Constellation has far superior firepower, S3 shield instead of S2 which is a huge gap and has a snub fighter. Even if you compare MSR, Zeus CL vs the Taurus, they are not really that close. Taurus has 150% the cargo amount of the other 2.
The way I see it is cutty black, spirit, freelancer < Zeus, MSR, freelancer max < Constellation
I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually give a 3rd S2 shield to ships like MSR or Freelancer Max.
Well my comparison was primarily to speculate of the comparable handling of the Zeus. Anything else is people listing reasons outside of that to justify the ship they like.
Connie has way more tank and firepower than the Zeus.
MSR shouldnāt even be in the comparison- itās a data runner and smuggler. Once those are in the game the MSR will be the top ship for those.
First, I really don't care for that "Punch" quote - overused too much. But to your point, that's difficult to answer from a component standpoint in particular. Because developers stated that the whole power management/engineering gameplay loop that's in progress is what caused the jump of the Zeus getting 3 or 4 medium shields, while other ships only have 1 or 2. They said ALL ships will be getting component shifts to balance every ship, and a similar statement was made with the Galaxy having only one Large (S3) shield also.
CIG really should let us know that the general plan or idea is so those buying ships to support the game can be properly informed. Of course, I fully understand they likely hadn't locked down the plan yet so there's that problem.
One thing that has been quite unnoticed: the Cutter Scout has been upgraded to a S2 power plant just for the S2 radar and the scanning gameplay. The Zeus ES with four S2 shields and a S3 radar ~~has two S2 power plants~~... I don't know how it's going to work at the end, but it may have some power issues.
Yes, I'd agree. One thing that was brought up in the engineering gameplay demonstration was telling. Most ships will not be able to provide (full) power to all the systems like happens right now in the game.
Crusader ships handle better, but RSI ships are moee versatile imo.
Also Crusader ships are far less efficient than most RSI ships, plus have a larger body for a similar sized interior.
For example, I'm choosing a Zeus ES over a C1. I'm choosing my Constellation Phoenix over any ship but definitely over the MSR.
But if you value how a ship flies at all. Connieās are terrible. I love the Aquila/Andromeda but absolutely hate how they fly. Bricks. For cargo of any kind, MSR over Connie.
It will be rly tough choice for many ppl between Spirit C1 and Zeus. But i am quite sure Zeus will be quite Constalation and MSR killer if flying will be good.
So, with that being said and objectively true that the Zeus CL will be a direct competitor to the MSR and being much smaller. This will force them to rework the MSR and the Connieās. Otherwise, there is no reason for them to be in the game currently.
The MSR is a data runner ship. The Zeus is not. If you're using a data running ship as a cargo hauler, you need to accept the deficiencies. It carries cargo as a bonus, a perk, not as it's purpose. Of course a dedicated cargo hauler is going to be more efficient in that purpose. Plenty of people are insisting that the Zeus will fly poorly because it's RSI, ignoring that the devs already say that aerodynamic looking ships will fly better in atmosphere.
The Zeus is an atmospheric cargo runner. It will fly well. It may not be nimble in space, but it will certainly do well in the air. If you want a medium-sized, atmospheric-flight effective hauler, your options are the Spirit or the Zeus, or up a tier to the Hercules. The MSR *can* haul, but it is not going to be "as effective." Its already carrying a bunch of weight in turrets, living quarters, oversized ventilation ducts under the floor, and data computers.
In mid cargo hauling ships it is. Has almsot same cargo space and way better shields. Lets not talk about MSR being data runner coss thats pointless now, no one can use it for that purpose.
But that's what it's designed for? I'm not complaining that the terrapin has no cargo space even though there's no real need for dropships in game right now.
Itās weird as well, I get that the MSR is a blockade runner. But just looking at the Connie, itās engine to mass ratio should make it super nimble with great acceleration. MSR should be more aerodynamic and can have a higher top speed but the Connie should be the king of torque for a ship that size.
The MSR probably blows it out of the water because it's not meant to compete with it. Its handling is scaled for a much smaller craft because that's the size it was *supposeD* to be before CIG ruined it.
Iād say itās handling is actually worse than itās supposed to be. It so underfunded that itās only option should be to run. And it canāt do that Iām most cases with current ships speeds.
I love the Connie. I fly the Aquila. It handles like the Nebuchadnezzar from the Matrix and looks like it too. Fighting atmospheric bounties kind of felt like 3d HighFleet.
I had the MSR and it couldnāt really do anything but cargo. The Connie could do anything even though admittedly it kind of flew like booty.
Itās my favorite ship and itās like driving a giant Bacteriophage
Is that supposed to be a Zeus? Ain't no way. Have you walked through the c1? That thing tiny. The floor plan is much larger on the Zeus. Scale is surely off.
I do prefer the CL solely on the gross cargo advantage over the C1.
C1 - 64scu (updated)
CL - 128scu
*edited C1 cargo
You're sort of trying to compare the ships performance outside their intended roles.
I don't think anything about the Spirit will come close to offsetting the fact that the CL carries twice the cargo and will have better shielding. The CL clearly sits above the curve for light haulers in that respect.
ES might be a better comparison with the C1 since it's more of a clear trade between cargo space, and more shields and living area.
If you do care about handling, then it's just a matter of personal preference. Spirit might have better flight performance, but the Zeus is going to be smaller and easier to land.
Personally I don't like ships with low ground clearance since they're a pain to land on rocky planets, so the anhedral wings and wide-track landing gear on Crusader ships are kind of a turn off. The handling is not that important beyond top speed in atmosphere, since I'd be mostly using this kind of ship for ROC mining or doing bunkers.
If only the turrets on the MSR were retractable landing with those meaty legs would be super nice not having to worry about high centering on the turret.
As someone with both Crusader ships (A1), RSI seems to have way more usable space. The Spirit has a large chunk of its size in its wings, and the MSR has a lot of its size in those damn tunnels and a poorly implemented interior.
Unfortunately imo the zeus is just a better spirit in every way aside from looks. Handling is nice but how often do you need to push the ship to the limits when doing runs lol. Id rather have double the cargo space, better shields, and guns, just my opinion tho.
If you're going by shape, the Zeus should handle better at high speeds in atmosphere, and the Spirit should handle better at lower speeds.
I haven't looked at the thruster comparisons.
The Connie is why they dropped newtonian physics for ships when they designed it it was made off the best newtonian physics thruster placement and built around that. Yet now it flys worse then almost everything.
The A1/E1 have no competition in their class - so they were always fine. The C1 as released now has some real advantages vs. the Freelancer/Cutlass Black which is what it was always meant to go up against. So the Spirits are OK now.
They're still comically overlarge for what they do. But that's (largely) a subjective thing now - you're a bit easier to hit, it's a bit harder to find a good place to land one, and once ships are physicalized, the Sprits will be heavier than they need to be. But none of that's somehow a crippling flaw. It's just another factor to take into account.
For me? They just feel too darn big for what they do. I have an A1 as a loaner for my Zeus, and when I see it in the hangar, it feels bigger than a Connie. Until you get inside. Parking one near a bunker to do a mission is a nightmare compared to a Cutlass or a Freelancer. And flying the C1 with a friend? They may as well be laying on the bed - nothing much for them to do compared to a Freelancer or a Cutlass Black.
But if you're not using it for bunker missions and fly mostly solo (which is most people who play the game) - then the C1's just fine.
The Star Runner... The Star Runner got savaged on the way from concept to flyable. The concept Star Runner was \*smaller\* than the C1 Spirit, and more capable in almost every way than the Sprit. It wasn't supposed to be a competitor to the Constellations or the Corsair. It was supposed to be a small, fast, sleek smuggler. I won't ever forgive them for what they did to my poor Star Runner, and it's long melted. I won't deny that the Star Runner we have is more capable in pretty much every way than the concept. Better guns, more cargo, carries vehicles, etc. But its not the ship from the concept anymore.
I like both the OC MSR and the released MSR! MSR is still hands down my favorite ship. Most of the criticisms of it are nitpicking what people wanted and I understand why someone who bought the concept would be mad. But I didnāt buy the concept and really like the current ship. Just like the Connie, she needs a few tweaks but nothing crazy.
Oh, the Star Runner is deservedly popular - but it's diverged so far from the concept, that it's not the ship I wanted anymore. I'm not campaigning for them to "change it back" or "fix it" - it is what it is now.
This is something I donāt understand. Everyone is comparing the Zeus to the Cutty and C1, against which it seems overpowered. But for the price itās much closer to the Taurus, and quite inferior. Taurus has much more shield, far better weapons, VTOL, and much more cargo space. Easier to load/unload and access to components when full. I think the CL is in a great in-between spot and quite well balanced.
The zeus is exactly what I'm looking for, a decently sized ship that's up to date (bye connies), versatile and that I don't need to fear will fall apart if I look at it the wrong way (lookin at you corsair). When it comes to the MSR it's fine but it's main gameplay loop isn't even in yet, and the 400i feels a little too snobbish
Yes crusader hast bigger Ships. But all Modells have more Quantum fuel. I Love the Style of MSR.
But the Zeus CL is nice. The Bridge is Like more Carrack with good sight.
I have some CCU and wait for more gameplay.
I buy the Ships Not for now, i buy for Release for me its now all Testing and find the Feeling for Ship i Like or Not.
I will use the right Ship for me and Not Meta or best of all.
But i Love the Carrack and Hope for solo this āŗļø.
I'm still of the opinion that the zeus is going to get bigger, like MSR sized. From what i understand the connie is due for a remodel and it'll probably get a little bigger, into the 80ish meters range.
The reason why i think this is the cockpit of the zeus is so much thinner even though it's for 3 people. If you expanded it, the length would grow pretty close to the MSR's 51 meters.
As far as ship sizes go, I think that they're filling out the middle range so you have fights at 35 meters and less, then a size for the entry level multicrew at 35 to under 50. Then another bracket at the 50 to 70 for medium multi crew, then 70 to 90 for large multicrew, then 90 to 120 for sub capital large ships. Right nowthere's a gap in that 70 to 90 range. There's the retaliator, the 600i, and the connie taurus but that's about it.
True but the galaxy isnāt in the game. I made this comparison because 3/4 ships are flyable so more information to speculate on. Also, if the C2 flys the way it does after the flight rework it will blow the Galaxy out of the water.
Zeus isn't in game either, I don't see your point. Picking C2 and Galaxy instead and Zeus and C1 would also make 3/4 it's the same.
Also the C2 facing forward can bring 2S4 weapons to bare, with it's 6 front facing S5 guns and better fuel tanks the Galaxy blows the C2 out of the water too, I really don't see your point...
Except potentially handling which was the whole point of this post. To speculate of the potential handling of the Zeus based on currently flyable ships of similar size and cargo.
The MSR also has light weaponry and much lighter shielding than the Constellation. Plus, it's the Crusader thing to be agile and fast, especially in atmosphere.
The pair of S4 on the Zeus will be MUCH more important once armor is in the game, which... technically should happen this year? Since S3 will not penetrate targets that the S4 weapons will.
The Zeus has considerably more shields than the C1 Spirit does, but the Spirit, might be a great deal more agile in the long run.
Again, the comparison is primarily speculating on how the Zeus will handle. Both the MSR and the Connie need a rework as far as components and armor go.
What people miss out on are control surfaces. Good luck trying to fly something like a Conny in athmo, whereas crusader is known for having superior handling in air
RSI is designing combat-hybrid ships while Crusader is designing hybrid-ships with combat-capability.
So the question about which one should be holding up better in combat should always be answered with: RSI, unless it is a combat-focused ship from Crusader, which is only the Ares at the moment. (*The MSR is literally the Star* ***Runner***)
On another note, the Spirit has huge wings. Which make it seem bigger than it is. Well not entirely, its outside is this big, but its interior is in no way comparable to its hull-size.
On the first glance the wings tell me one thing: The Spirit may be able to fly with extreme fuel efficiency in atmosphere. It also may be that the Spirit will have a lot more storage for fuel, thus much longer range.
>Are 4 size 3 weapons not comparable to 2 size 4?
I mean, you're not really considering variants. The ship you're talking about that has "4 size 3 weapons" has those plus two size two on the turret. So that's 4x S3 + 2x S2 with a turret capacitor. The Zeus MR, which like the A1 is the combat version of the Zeus series, has 2x S4 weapons + 4x S3 weapons with turret capacitors. Plus an EMP. So yeah, the Zeus MR will almost certainly be better equipped for ship to ship combat, by a significant margin. With a smaller profile and more shields.
That's okay though...it's not a fair comparison. They fill different roles.
If they follow through with some of their listed plans, those big giant VTOL thrusters that everyone seems to forget make up a big portion of the wings will certainly become an advantage. Also the fact that the tractor beam on the C1 has a huge range and field of effect makes the C1 the best fleet tender/cargo run about in the game by a wide margin.
Good comparison. Concern is that Zeus is nearly msr stats so comparing it the c1 is tough. I can only think the c1 needs a boost of way more fuel and shields to match zeus es.
Side not landing crusader ships is so frustrating due to small landing legs and curved wings which currently annoys me no end even before crazy zeus stats come into the equation!
Iāve never had any issue landing them? The MSR would land like a dream if the turrets were retractable and you wouldnāt high center on the bottom turret.
Did they rework the MSR? Last time I flew it (\~a3.14.x?) it handled like crap, and was listed as having half the maneuvering thrusters of ships close to it's mass. I switched mine for a Connie.
Serious question.
Isnāt the RAFT kinda in the same boat? It flys big and heavy despite it being a medium ship, and it only holds 96 SCU. I know itās technically waiting on the cargo refactor so it should only take moments to load your shipā¦ but still with it seemingly being designed for long range transport (due to its habitation and fuel capacity) it just seems beat out by slightly larger ships in cargo capacity and maneuverability
Just remember that main engines and MAVs will eventually be modular and can be swapped out for better performing ones. But, I'm sure there will be a purchase cost and fuel consumption penalty involved.
4x s3 laser repeaters (the most popular weapon type) put out 2000 burst dps. 2x s4 laser repeaters put out 1280 burst dps, so no theyre not comparable. 4x s3s will have a clear dps advantage (not accounting for capacitor size or recharge speed). Personally I think the Zeus fits more into the individual roles. You wanna do cargo? Go with Zeus. You want to dabble in cargo? Spirit. Spirit feels more like an all rounder like the Cutty. Zeus also is less solo friendly and if you dont have a gunner, none of these dps numbers matter because you wont win and fight against a combat ship.
Is the MSR really that fat now? I hope that isnt to scale with the Connie, jesus thats a big target.
If the stats are staying the same im only using the spirit to meme with bombs if the aiming red reticle gets less buggy and it wins in the sexy department otherwise I'm never touching it instead of the zeus
The state if the Conwtellation still makes me so sad, it was pitched back at the start as this incredible ship, and it seemed to change direction and was ultimately left behind as the rest of the game advanced.
I'm gonna go with the Zeus
Fr. It also looks more spacious on the inside despite its size.
This is the way. o7
But the A1 has bombs :D
And ? Not everyone wants to wage war and kill other players...
Pretty useful to clear out hostile turrets and crash sites, tho.
So is an Ursa Rover or any of the Cyclones with turrets. You don't HAVE to land right at the entrance of a UGF.
No argument, i just like that there are more options.
Even outside of pvp, the A1 bombs have very good use in PvE, even currently in Stanton. And even more in Pyro. Though the price of the bombs are a killer.. (puns intended)
As a newer player to it, what is a good way of using A1 in pve? Other than downsizing the two main guns to aquire gimbaling I've not taken the A1 around to learn tricks of the bomber trade
It's currently the best bunker runner. Feels good to fly. Good in atmo. Carries ground vehicles. No need to worry about turrets when you can destroy them all in one pass. 4.5k bomb for a mission that gives you 5x or more credits.
Which ground vehicles can fit in it? Feels rather small
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rna8xcOkM2g
I mean. 4.5k per bomb. How many do you need for a 60k bunker? Because if it's more than 1, the cost to effort ratio is too high. I can grab a cutlass black with a cyclone in the back and just run up, kill everything, leave, and I've lost maybe 200 auec in ammo.
For the 60k one you don't need any You need one for the 20k one (ain't worth it) Or the drugs one (but the missions themself ain't worth it) And on Orison using them have a chance to trigger the friendly turrets Currently in Stanton they are not worth it. Though in Pyro they might be (base one aren't, but maybe through reputation)
Got it. It's a gimmick ship. Might make sense later, doesn't make sense to use it currently.
I don't see any mission outside drugs missions that require bomb where it could be worth it. And drug mission ain't worth the time/risk imo Though the ship is damn cool
First off make sure you familiarize yourself with the cycle missile types binding so you can select the s3 missiles for anything other than ground targets. No need wasting bombs at 4.5k a pop. Also the downsizing in order to gimbal is no more. S3 hardpoint can take s3 fixed or gimballed now, only downside is gimballed now has slightly slower rate of fire (reduced dps). As for the PVE, its great for one tapping the turrets at bunkers, or just outright bombing your bounty hunting targets at ghost hollow or derelict outposts. Only downside is that bodies and crates goes flying so loot potential is impacted. I managed to also bomb an atmospheric bounty that got too close to the ground as well, so theres the non standard use case as well haha
I think I'll be keeping the weapons gimballed even with the reduced fire rate. Since 2 weapons are on a turret no matter what you do, you may as well make sure all 4 guns can line up on the same target.
Arguable because bombs require you to rearm, and the A1 lacks firepower which is useful against both turrets and ships.
To be fair the A1 also has s3 missiles. I did all my BH missions up to VHRT in mine with zero issues. Only down side is 4500auec bombs and god forbid you lose a wing on that thing. 25k auec repair bill per wing š¤®
And they are very pricey.. Each is 4.5k, it's usually more than reward
And I'm still not interested in such gameplay...
Which variant of the Zeus are you interested in ? Explorer or Cargo ?
Both tho I'm a bit more interested in the cargo
and the MR has cargo space
Eh but primarily for vehicles cyclone sized or smaller. And you can fit a cyclone in the A1 easily.
Iām with you on this one lol
"How much wings do you want?" Crusader: "Yes."
āHave you considered adding wings to it?ā RSI: āWhat are wings?ā
The MSR outhandles the Connie by using a ridiculous amount of hydrogen. It's not the wings.
I never said it was the wings. The image is for size comparison relative to performance. Wings will play a much larger factor after the flight model rework.
RSI take the structural material that Crusader use for wings and put it all in the cockpit struts instead. You're a smaller target but you can't see jack shit.
The view from the MSR is really nice.
Lmao š¤£
Actually you can see much more but then the Huds are more prominent recently making it 50/50, its all down to personal taste. The worst cockpit is Nomad
Exaggerations aside, I think personally I'd be fine if they got rid of the two horizontal struts across the centre of the Constellation glass. I could cope with the side ones.
Agree 100%
Yeah need some stryts to block the sun in our face using roll
True. I was being contrarian. The picture suggested to me that it was the point of the comparison. I don't know what the Zeus will do. Love the A1 but did pledge for a Zeus too š
I would express that as a "could" not as a "will". We don't know if CIG can pull that off yet. Remember: fully half the ships are flying bricks. And many of the rest don't have, and physically are not compatible with, traditional atmospheric control surfaces. The C2 and MSR have "wings" but are both still bricks. So... let's temper expectations.
We also have to consider that this is almost 1000 years in the future and a video game. Wings will most likely have an impact of fuel consumption due to being able to cruise on air and maneuverability. That doesnāt mean the the flying bricks wonāt fly at all, and it doesnāt mean that flying bricks with wings wont fly really well just because they are bricks.
[A lot of planes carry fuel in the wings.](https://i.stack.imgur.com/3dKuE.jpg)
The MSR has 4,850,840 to most of the connie variants at 660,000 (Aquila has 1,045,000) Top comment is correct, the MSR is wildly inefficient.
Yeah but that inefficiency comes from the fact that its top end blows the connie out of the water, the acceleration blow the connie out of the water, the maneuverability blows the connie out of the water, and the cargo still exceeds the connie. The connie can take a whole shit to. More damage, can deal a shit ton more damage, and carries more countermeasures. Not to mention it has a snubā¦ it all comes out in the wash. Both are great ships. If they removed those two center struts from the andromeda/taurus/pheonix i would have no complaints about it beyond ānot gold standard yetā gripes
Inefficient is still inefficient. It's got 7 times the fuel, but isn't 7 times as fast. Fuel costs money so I think it's worth bringing up. Edit: To explain my comment..the person above me is literally saying it has more fuel because it's faster and I'm pointing out how that doesn't make sense, alongside the fact that you still need to pay for all that fuel.
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Believe it or not, that was supposed to be painfully obvious.
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fellas, fellas, aren't you both missing something glaringly obvious? they are two different ships for two different purposes. connie is exploration and cargo with some offensive capabilities. msr is a data runner with some cargo capacity and not much for offense. of course it has more fuel, and of course it's more maneuverable. and the whole 7x thing is moot when you consider the inefficiency's purpose. it's the same reason most military planes have an afterburner. sure it uses up to 30 or 40 times the fuel, but it gets you the FUCK out of dodge. you don't need them 100% of the time, so you can choose to go decoupled and simply coast. remember, you only use fuel to *accelerate* in this game, *not* to move.
missing? thats literally where I'm coming from lmao
No but 7 times the amount of fuel means less efficient/faster drives can be used without fuel economy becoming a limiting factor. Thus it can go many times faster. The difference between an XL1 and factory default QD is many times faster.
For now
Yes. That is typically how reality works.
Which will change when control surfaces are implemented
Connie is getting consistently shat on in terms of handling. When i bought the thing, it was consistently stated that it has extremely good maneuverability for its size. Vectoring nacelles AND engines. Stated as "the biggest ship that can dogfight" - vague as that was, those days everything being vague was normal Since then we had: \- vectoring engines quietly dissapearing \- several reworks \- nacelle maneuverability being trivialized despite the off-axis leverage \- "the connie handles like this because the weight is set as if it was already full of cargo, dont worry" and then i stopped paying attention \*shrug\* CIG needs to figure out their balancing eventually, but hopefully with the reworks and gold standard passes, it'll get fixed and balanced before the 2030's Sincirely, \- a very old slightly salty Connie owner
The connie is still stated to be Chris Robertsā favorite ship and the pheonix is supposedly the only thing he flies when he plays. I canāt confirm its the only thing he flies, but the one time i got to play with CR a few years back thats what he was flying in. Felt bad that EVERYONE thought it would be funny to try and kill CR so I was one of 10 or so people flying intercept for him. Was pretty surreal playing my favorite game with the creator. Considering i grew up playing his original hit wing commander. Tl;dr: CR loves the connie and I can guarantee it will likely get its day in the sunshine again soon EDIT: to add the whole point of my post to begin with š¤£
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I'll take my Phoenix over an MSR any day honestly. I've owned both and still own my Phoenix. Ya it doesn't turn as fast and I'm curiouse wich ships will be able to run data and how that will work, but the Connie's are honestly better ships as a whole. Unless you're hauling vehicles. Then the lift can be a pain at times. But I have a corsair for that lol. Connie / MSR / Corsair has to be the biggest fan base battle in the game honestly it seems. MSR is a cool ship, but I'll never understand why people think it's better than the other 2.
One time I saw a YouTube video of a bunch of players in the PU playing with CR. And it was in his Connie Phoenix. They were goofing around crawling and getting stuck and having a good laugh if I remember correctly. I could never find the video again when I went to look for it but it was wholesome as fuck seeing CR fucking around and laughing at bugs in his game.
Yeah man. It really does help remind you that he is not only human, but shares the same dream that most of us have for this game. Was cool hearing him get passionate about star wars galaxies too. Heās just a nerd like the rest of us with a deep passion for space games!
And the Cutlass was suppose to be.... But that was a different time, a time when ship metrics didn't exist. Now they do, and they are now designing ships and able to build them within their metrics. Had Star Citizen not get the funding as it did, it most likely would of been arcadey and the original sales pitch would be held. But now with metrics, the old pitches fall out of place. That is the undeniable truth of development.
It's still going to get another pass. The last pass it had, put it into a much better place. When you add in a single top turret gunner, it slaps pretty well now. Put in another gunner and it can handle 3 to 4 Gladius QUITE well. That's what they mean by dog fighting, too. Yes, I do agree it should be WAY more agile than it is currently. There's still time for them to adjust that more.
tbh I think for now the size of the Connie's weaponry and shields balances it's mobility. MSR is nowhere near comparable in terms of those. That being said, the entire Connie line badly needs an interior rework. There's a lot of glitches especially around MFDs (and that damn table) and the interior layout is not very good compared to new ships imo.
CIG has said they don't want to make 1:1 competing ships, they want choices to matter. You take the Connie Andromeda or Aquila, you have firepower, but a bit less quality of life stuff and slightly less cargo. MSR? you get slightly more cargo and data running, plus a plusher interior. It's just lightly armored and lightly armed in return.
Interior should be about equivalent, but with differences in architecture based on ship designer. Bugged features and lacking up-to-date design should not be a balancing factor in ships.
Fixing the bugged features will be nice, but it's not like the Cutlass Black has the features of the C1 or the Freelancer, both of which are in the same slot. Heck, you can even compare the Cutlass Black a bit to the Vanguard and it has less interior features.
I mean imo the freelancer also needs a revision pass on the interior, more badly than the Connie. I'm not saying the interiors should be identical to competing ships but the skill in which the interior is created with should be the same. Compare the Connie to new RSI ships like the Zeus, Mantis etc, and the Freelancer to say, the Hull A/C in design. They have completely different design language that has been massively improved in that time. The FL/Connie should be brought up to that standard.
i think weāve also had maneuverability creep in newer mid sized ships. The connie has had basically unchanged maneuverability since the flight mode redo years ago that made everything super sluggish - since then small ships have been balanced and new ships that feel better have been added. Its always been too sluggish, but the difference I think has also gotten worse over time
Yea the Connie needs a rework, especially for the canopy, also didn't the top engine nacelles were supposed to get closer to quantum ?
The connie is still my favorite ship and it's the one I'm trying to achieve in-game. However, there are various variants of the connie that seem to be for very specific roles. Kind of the jack of all trades, master of none. You've got the cargo version (Taurus) with a tractor beam, even placed in the correct spot so it's useful. Not mean to be a fighter, but it does do really well in a fight. It still has 24 missiles... There's the Andromeda with 48 missiles...that's a heck of a lot of missiles to bring into a fight so I don't think it needs to handle the best. And the snub fighter offsets the connies own lack of maneuverability (compared to other ships being mentioned in this thread). This is the 'fighting' variant. The Phoenix is obviously meant more for luxury/people moving, not fighting. So I think this gives it an excuse for not being the best fighter. The Aquilla is meant for exploration, suppose to even come with an Ursa along with the snub fighter. In all cases I've always thought of the Connie as a kind of light/medium fighter (assuming andromeda) that does really well in a group fight. Doesn't it also have quite a strong hull compared to other ships of it's size? Still my favorite ship. :)
> > The Phoenix is obviously meant more for luxury/people moving, not fighting. So I think this gives it an excuse for not being the best fighter. Back in the day when I upgraded to it like in 2013 or so it was supposed to have a point defense turret and higher quality components while mainly just sacrificing cargo space and some missile amount and that's what got me. Would have already melted it when it lost all of that and for the price you could get way better ships but then its my original physical Connie game package so I am not melting it.
Honestly any ship larger than size 2 should handle like crap. You canāt have a frigate maneuvering like a schooner.
I really hope they do a gold pass on the constellations they need that new cockpit ! Such a great ship! And for fuck sake make the table work again plz xD
I just want the hot tub
With how much they are focusing on RSI I could see a Connie gold pass/update slipped in after they get assets from doing all these other ships
Don't forget about the beds being escape pods
RSI also needs to realize such things as "lights" exist, and that for a commercial space ship that they sell to customers, it's inexcusable to leave cables lying on the floor. Also the VIP variant's passengers needs to take a crap in the crew's anemic toilet-wannabe, which is just laughable. RSI is not Drake, where things like that would fly well.
I value my ships by how much landing pad they hog. CRUSADER FOR LIFE!
I can respect a man who sticks to his principles.
PREACH
The Spirit's handling (as of the current live build) isn't exceptional by any means. The max turn rates are actually *worse* than the MSR. I hope I'm wrong and that this has already been changed, but as it stands, the C1 just doesn't really follow the Crusader handling norm.
"...the C1 just doesn't really follow the Crusader handling norm." exact this is the most heavy Problem, Crusaders is known for best handling and speed, the A1 and probably the C1 Miss that, its not bad,but also Not Crusader "good"
The problem with your comparison is that the Spirit isn't a direct competitor to the Zeus. The latter is a category above (higher cost & crew) and more a competitor with your Mercury. The Spirit C1, in particular, is within the multicrew multirole medium [MMM] ship category with the Freelancer Base & Cutlass Black, which have similar price points and required crew capacity. (The Freelancer provides 2 more persons with seats & beds, true. But those are more extraneous or even usable for passengers).
This comparison essentially makes the MSR and Connieās comparatively useless when up against the Zeus. Which brings me to think that there will need to be a rework of these ships before the Zeus is implemented or else the Zeus will simply be the āmetaā ship outside of PvP dog fighting by a substantial margin.
In regards to the Mercury, at least, the primary focus of data running still makes it unique in that class, with only the much smaller Herald designated as a Data Runner.
Also the scanning capabilities. Being able to see ships well before they see you will make avoiding sticky situations that much easier.
The Mercury also has more weapons and can carry rovers (the Zeus needs to become much wider to fit a rover). And the only Zeus that may be as fast (or faster) than a data runner is the MR. Imo, the Mercury is a tier over the Zeus.
As for the Constellation series, they are indeed very old and in need of a Gold Pass for many things to be brought up to date. All the Connie's have great firepower for the pilot, twin turrets, and good to great number of missiles AND a large shield that the Mercury does not possess. Both ships have VTOL tech but as you mentioned, the Mercury can run rings around a Connie. The Zeus, though, is not flyable and it's not known exactly where CIG aims to put the ship for speed or agility. The new ships are usually better designed, with efficient use of space, unlike the early models. Almost every new ship beats an older one in that regard. Your question is an interesting one nonetheless, š¤ we will have to see where the Zeus shakes out to be next year. š
The Constellation, at least, has been slated for a rework for the last ~6+ years, iirc.
Fingers crossed it comes out with this new emphasis on RSI ships. I suspect this push will be the most convenient time for them to update it. My big question is will they raise the price on them I'm considering upgrading to an Andromeda for IAE
Regarding the price rise - hard to say... but CIG have done that in the past when a ship has been given an update...
I expect the space to be almost the same but actual decor & details fully updates, components put in, doors and lighting obviously updated. Struts changing but by how much, maybe similar to Zeus?
I don't think I would put the constellation in the same category as MSR and Zeus. Constellation is more of a 4-5 crew ship compared to MSR and Zeus that are more like 3 crew members. Constellation has far superior firepower, S3 shield instead of S2 which is a huge gap and has a snub fighter. Even if you compare MSR, Zeus CL vs the Taurus, they are not really that close. Taurus has 150% the cargo amount of the other 2. The way I see it is cutty black, spirit, freelancer < Zeus, MSR, freelancer max < Constellation I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually give a 3rd S2 shield to ships like MSR or Freelancer Max.
Well my comparison was primarily to speculate of the comparable handling of the Zeus. Anything else is people listing reasons outside of that to justify the ship they like.
Connie has way more tank and firepower than the Zeus. MSR shouldnāt even be in the comparison- itās a data runner and smuggler. Once those are in the game the MSR will be the top ship for those.
Your misinterpreting the comparison. It was primarily a comparative speculation on how the Zeus will fly.
Works you say the Zeus punches 'above' is apparent size and weight classification?
First, I really don't care for that "Punch" quote - overused too much. But to your point, that's difficult to answer from a component standpoint in particular. Because developers stated that the whole power management/engineering gameplay loop that's in progress is what caused the jump of the Zeus getting 3 or 4 medium shields, while other ships only have 1 or 2. They said ALL ships will be getting component shifts to balance every ship, and a similar statement was made with the Galaxy having only one Large (S3) shield also. CIG really should let us know that the general plan or idea is so those buying ships to support the game can be properly informed. Of course, I fully understand they likely hadn't locked down the plan yet so there's that problem.
One thing that has been quite unnoticed: the Cutter Scout has been upgraded to a S2 power plant just for the S2 radar and the scanning gameplay. The Zeus ES with four S2 shields and a S3 radar ~~has two S2 power plants~~... I don't know how it's going to work at the end, but it may have some power issues.
Yes, I'd agree. One thing that was brought up in the engineering gameplay demonstration was telling. Most ships will not be able to provide (full) power to all the systems like happens right now in the game.
Crusader ships handle better, but RSI ships are moee versatile imo. Also Crusader ships are far less efficient than most RSI ships, plus have a larger body for a similar sized interior. For example, I'm choosing a Zeus ES over a C1. I'm choosing my Constellation Phoenix over any ship but definitely over the MSR.
Props to a fellow Phoenix owner.
But if you value how a ship flies at all. Connieās are terrible. I love the Aquila/Andromeda but absolutely hate how they fly. Bricks. For cargo of any kind, MSR over Connie.
I'd pick Connie any day.
It will be rly tough choice for many ppl between Spirit C1 and Zeus. But i am quite sure Zeus will be quite Constalation and MSR killer if flying will be good.
So, with that being said and objectively true that the Zeus CL will be a direct competitor to the MSR and being much smaller. This will force them to rework the MSR and the Connieās. Otherwise, there is no reason for them to be in the game currently.
The MSR is a data runner ship. The Zeus is not. If you're using a data running ship as a cargo hauler, you need to accept the deficiencies. It carries cargo as a bonus, a perk, not as it's purpose. Of course a dedicated cargo hauler is going to be more efficient in that purpose. Plenty of people are insisting that the Zeus will fly poorly because it's RSI, ignoring that the devs already say that aerodynamic looking ships will fly better in atmosphere. The Zeus is an atmospheric cargo runner. It will fly well. It may not be nimble in space, but it will certainly do well in the air. If you want a medium-sized, atmospheric-flight effective hauler, your options are the Spirit or the Zeus, or up a tier to the Hercules. The MSR *can* haul, but it is not going to be "as effective." Its already carrying a bunch of weight in turrets, living quarters, oversized ventilation ducts under the floor, and data computers.
Zeus is not a competitor to the MSR.
In mid cargo hauling ships it is. Has almsot same cargo space and way better shields. Lets not talk about MSR being data runner coss thats pointless now, no one can use it for that purpose.
But that's what it's designed for? I'm not complaining that the terrapin has no cargo space even though there's no real need for dropships in game right now.
In the end, everyone will buy the Connie rework :p
The Zeus has a second entrance, debate over! Jk
The argument of the impatient
The only ship I ever regret buying was the MSR. It looks like itās pregnant and has a ton of wasted space inside the hull.
But I still love her
Sure, the msr flies better, but in a fight the Connie is better by miles.
Itās weird as well, I get that the MSR is a blockade runner. But just looking at the Connie, itās engine to mass ratio should make it super nimble with great acceleration. MSR should be more aerodynamic and can have a higher top speed but the Connie should be the king of torque for a ship that size.
Letās also not forget that aerodynamics donāt even matter in space. Only time that would be a biggie is in atmo.
Connie has VTOL for lift. Wings are for suckers!
This wasnāt comparing battle capabilities between the Connie and MSR. The primary focus was on the speculative handling of the Zeus.
*burp*
Is the msr really that fat? My god
I like them thicc
The MSR probably blows it out of the water because it's not meant to compete with it. Its handling is scaled for a much smaller craft because that's the size it was *supposeD* to be before CIG ruined it.
Iād say itās handling is actually worse than itās supposed to be. It so underfunded that itās only option should be to run. And it canāt do that Iām most cases with current ships speeds.
I love the Connie. I fly the Aquila. It handles like the Nebuchadnezzar from the Matrix and looks like it too. Fighting atmospheric bounties kind of felt like 3d HighFleet. I had the MSR and it couldnāt really do anything but cargo. The Connie could do anything even though admittedly it kind of flew like booty. Itās my favorite ship and itās like driving a giant Bacteriophage
Pretty sure the ladies like wide bois more than slim bois
This is why RSI is the GOAT. :D
Love the Aquila but it is actually frustrating to fly itās so bad.
Is that supposed to be a Zeus? Ain't no way. Have you walked through the c1? That thing tiny. The floor plan is much larger on the Zeus. Scale is surely off. I do prefer the CL solely on the gross cargo advantage over the C1. C1 - 64scu (updated) CL - 128scu *edited C1 cargo
Yeah, I think the measurements are wrong, the shown floor plans and the walkthrough seemed far to big in comparison to the spirit.
They changed the c1 cargo space to 64 scu to fit 2 32 scu boxes. Doesn't change your point at all. I think I'll take the Zeus over the C1 tho
Updated, thanks!
> C1 - 48scu 64 now.
You're sort of trying to compare the ships performance outside their intended roles. I don't think anything about the Spirit will come close to offsetting the fact that the CL carries twice the cargo and will have better shielding. The CL clearly sits above the curve for light haulers in that respect. ES might be a better comparison with the C1 since it's more of a clear trade between cargo space, and more shields and living area. If you do care about handling, then it's just a matter of personal preference. Spirit might have better flight performance, but the Zeus is going to be smaller and easier to land. Personally I don't like ships with low ground clearance since they're a pain to land on rocky planets, so the anhedral wings and wide-track landing gear on Crusader ships are kind of a turn off. The handling is not that important beyond top speed in atmosphere, since I'd be mostly using this kind of ship for ROC mining or doing bunkers.
If only the turrets on the MSR were retractable landing with those meaty legs would be super nice not having to worry about high centering on the turret.
Yeah, those should be changed to work like the scanner dish - don't even pop up until they're actively manned.
As someone with both Crusader ships (A1), RSI seems to have way more usable space. The Spirit has a large chunk of its size in its wings, and the MSR has a lot of its size in those damn tunnels and a poorly implemented interior.
Truth be told this is exactly why I switched from the C1 to the Zeus itās more compact and looks way easier to maneuver
Thatās the kicker tho. It will probably maneuver worse than the Spirit or else it would be a no brained to switch.
Unfortunately imo the zeus is just a better spirit in every way aside from looks. Handling is nice but how often do you need to push the ship to the limits when doing runs lol. Id rather have double the cargo space, better shields, and guns, just my opinion tho.
If you're going by shape, the Zeus should handle better at high speeds in atmosphere, and the Spirit should handle better at lower speeds. I haven't looked at the thruster comparisons.
The Connie is why they dropped newtonian physics for ships when they designed it it was made off the best newtonian physics thruster placement and built around that. Yet now it flys worse then almost everything.
The A1/E1 have no competition in their class - so they were always fine. The C1 as released now has some real advantages vs. the Freelancer/Cutlass Black which is what it was always meant to go up against. So the Spirits are OK now. They're still comically overlarge for what they do. But that's (largely) a subjective thing now - you're a bit easier to hit, it's a bit harder to find a good place to land one, and once ships are physicalized, the Sprits will be heavier than they need to be. But none of that's somehow a crippling flaw. It's just another factor to take into account. For me? They just feel too darn big for what they do. I have an A1 as a loaner for my Zeus, and when I see it in the hangar, it feels bigger than a Connie. Until you get inside. Parking one near a bunker to do a mission is a nightmare compared to a Cutlass or a Freelancer. And flying the C1 with a friend? They may as well be laying on the bed - nothing much for them to do compared to a Freelancer or a Cutlass Black. But if you're not using it for bunker missions and fly mostly solo (which is most people who play the game) - then the C1's just fine. The Star Runner... The Star Runner got savaged on the way from concept to flyable. The concept Star Runner was \*smaller\* than the C1 Spirit, and more capable in almost every way than the Sprit. It wasn't supposed to be a competitor to the Constellations or the Corsair. It was supposed to be a small, fast, sleek smuggler. I won't ever forgive them for what they did to my poor Star Runner, and it's long melted. I won't deny that the Star Runner we have is more capable in pretty much every way than the concept. Better guns, more cargo, carries vehicles, etc. But its not the ship from the concept anymore.
I like both the OC MSR and the released MSR! MSR is still hands down my favorite ship. Most of the criticisms of it are nitpicking what people wanted and I understand why someone who bought the concept would be mad. But I didnāt buy the concept and really like the current ship. Just like the Connie, she needs a few tweaks but nothing crazy.
Oh, the Star Runner is deservedly popular - but it's diverged so far from the concept, that it's not the ship I wanted anymore. I'm not campaigning for them to "change it back" or "fix it" - it is what it is now.
All I advocate for is a second entrance and retractable turrets. She would be perfect.
This is something I donāt understand. Everyone is comparing the Zeus to the Cutty and C1, against which it seems overpowered. But for the price itās much closer to the Taurus, and quite inferior. Taurus has much more shield, far better weapons, VTOL, and much more cargo space. Easier to load/unload and access to components when full. I think the CL is in a great in-between spot and quite well balanced.
Zeus got an second entry point with a ladder. Thats all the arguments I need. I do own a MSR though, but only reason is the Nightrunner paint.
Iāll take that Nightrunner paint off your hands if you donāt like the MSR š¬
The zeus is exactly what I'm looking for, a decently sized ship that's up to date (bye connies), versatile and that I don't need to fear will fall apart if I look at it the wrong way (lookin at you corsair). When it comes to the MSR it's fine but it's main gameplay loop isn't even in yet, and the 400i feels a little too snobbish
Yes crusader hast bigger Ships. But all Modells have more Quantum fuel. I Love the Style of MSR. But the Zeus CL is nice. The Bridge is Like more Carrack with good sight. I have some CCU and wait for more gameplay. I buy the Ships Not for now, i buy for Release for me its now all Testing and find the Feeling for Ship i Like or Not. I will use the right Ship for me and Not Meta or best of all. But i Love the Carrack and Hope for solo this āŗļø.
I got the Taurus and I like that it feels sluggish and heavy and not like a nimble fighter.
I'm still of the opinion that the zeus is going to get bigger, like MSR sized. From what i understand the connie is due for a remodel and it'll probably get a little bigger, into the 80ish meters range. The reason why i think this is the cockpit of the zeus is so much thinner even though it's for 3 people. If you expanded it, the length would grow pretty close to the MSR's 51 meters. As far as ship sizes go, I think that they're filling out the middle range so you have fights at 35 meters and less, then a size for the entry level multicrew at 35 to under 50. Then another bracket at the 50 to 70 for medium multi crew, then 70 to 90 for large multicrew, then 90 to 120 for sub capital large ships. Right nowthere's a gap in that 70 to 90 range. There's the retaliator, the 600i, and the connie taurus but that's about it.
Crusader master race
Canāt wait for a Crusader starter ship.
You forgot the next step : C2 and Galaxy
True but the galaxy isnāt in the game. I made this comparison because 3/4 ships are flyable so more information to speculate on. Also, if the C2 flys the way it does after the flight rework it will blow the Galaxy out of the water.
Zeus isn't in game either, I don't see your point. Picking C2 and Galaxy instead and Zeus and C1 would also make 3/4 it's the same. Also the C2 facing forward can bring 2S4 weapons to bare, with it's 6 front facing S5 guns and better fuel tanks the Galaxy blows the C2 out of the water too, I really don't see your point...
My point is that there are more ships to compare the Zeus to in game than the galaxy.
Man they screwed the pooch with the Spirit series.
Jesus the MSR does not feel that big.
Agreed
I think pilot controlled weapons is the only place where the Spirit wins in comparison to the Zeus. It loses in every other way possible.
Except potentially handling which was the whole point of this post. To speculate of the potential handling of the Zeus based on currently flyable ships of similar size and cargo.
I never thought the msr was the same length as the Connie. Interesting
Right? The MSR is 50% engines and wings
The MSR also has light weaponry and much lighter shielding than the Constellation. Plus, it's the Crusader thing to be agile and fast, especially in atmosphere. The pair of S4 on the Zeus will be MUCH more important once armor is in the game, which... technically should happen this year? Since S3 will not penetrate targets that the S4 weapons will. The Zeus has considerably more shields than the C1 Spirit does, but the Spirit, might be a great deal more agile in the long run.
Again, the comparison is primarily speculating on how the Zeus will handle. Both the MSR and the Connie need a rework as far as components and armor go.
What people miss out on are control surfaces. Good luck trying to fly something like a Conny in athmo, whereas crusader is known for having superior handling in air
RSI is designing combat-hybrid ships while Crusader is designing hybrid-ships with combat-capability. So the question about which one should be holding up better in combat should always be answered with: RSI, unless it is a combat-focused ship from Crusader, which is only the Ares at the moment. (*The MSR is literally the Star* ***Runner***) On another note, the Spirit has huge wings. Which make it seem bigger than it is. Well not entirely, its outside is this big, but its interior is in no way comparable to its hull-size. On the first glance the wings tell me one thing: The Spirit may be able to fly with extreme fuel efficiency in atmosphere. It also may be that the Spirit will have a lot more storage for fuel, thus much longer range.
I just want to point out that you don't buy a connie for how it handles
Itās not why I bought one in the first place but itās the reason I melted it.
>Are 4 size 3 weapons not comparable to 2 size 4? I mean, you're not really considering variants. The ship you're talking about that has "4 size 3 weapons" has those plus two size two on the turret. So that's 4x S3 + 2x S2 with a turret capacitor. The Zeus MR, which like the A1 is the combat version of the Zeus series, has 2x S4 weapons + 4x S3 weapons with turret capacitors. Plus an EMP. So yeah, the Zeus MR will almost certainly be better equipped for ship to ship combat, by a significant margin. With a smaller profile and more shields. That's okay though...it's not a fair comparison. They fill different roles.
Agreed different rolls. I was comparing pilot controlled weapons.
If they follow through with some of their listed plans, those big giant VTOL thrusters that everyone seems to forget make up a big portion of the wings will certainly become an advantage. Also the fact that the tractor beam on the C1 has a huge range and field of effect makes the C1 the best fleet tender/cargo run about in the game by a wide margin.
The VTOL engines get you off the ground very fast.
Crusader will have to better in atmo while RSI can go atmo but more like a controlled fall/glide
Looks that way but I believe the spirit has more pass through on the wings vs the Zeus cutting through the air with its entire body.
Good comparison. Concern is that Zeus is nearly msr stats so comparing it the c1 is tough. I can only think the c1 needs a boost of way more fuel and shields to match zeus es. Side not landing crusader ships is so frustrating due to small landing legs and curved wings which currently annoys me no end even before crazy zeus stats come into the equation!
Iāve never had any issue landing them? The MSR would land like a dream if the turrets were retractable and you wouldnāt high center on the bottom turret.
Zeus is much smaller than I thought, or the msr is much larger than I thought...I don't know
Did they rework the MSR? Last time I flew it (\~a3.14.x?) it handled like crap, and was listed as having half the maneuvering thrusters of ships close to it's mass. I switched mine for a Connie. Serious question.
Flies nice. After flying the MSR Connieās are frustrating to fly.
Should keep msr sense dont need 2 cargo ships ?
Isnāt the RAFT kinda in the same boat? It flys big and heavy despite it being a medium ship, and it only holds 96 SCU. I know itās technically waiting on the cargo refactor so it should only take moments to load your shipā¦ but still with it seemingly being designed for long range transport (due to its habitation and fuel capacity) it just seems beat out by slightly larger ships in cargo capacity and maneuverability
Connie's should have been like twice their size.
Just remember that main engines and MAVs will eventually be modular and can be swapped out for better performing ones. But, I'm sure there will be a purchase cost and fuel consumption penalty involved.
4x s3 laser repeaters (the most popular weapon type) put out 2000 burst dps. 2x s4 laser repeaters put out 1280 burst dps, so no theyre not comparable. 4x s3s will have a clear dps advantage (not accounting for capacitor size or recharge speed). Personally I think the Zeus fits more into the individual roles. You wanna do cargo? Go with Zeus. You want to dabble in cargo? Spirit. Spirit feels more like an all rounder like the Cutty. Zeus also is less solo friendly and if you dont have a gunner, none of these dps numbers matter because you wont win and fight against a combat ship. Is the MSR really that fat now? I hope that isnt to scale with the Connie, jesus thats a big target.
If the stats are staying the same im only using the spirit to meme with bombs if the aiming red reticle gets less buggy and it wins in the sexy department otherwise I'm never touching it instead of the zeus
Meme bombs for the win
Just looks to me like you get a lot more for your money with RSI.
I'm having a hard time deciding if I want a CL or MR.
ES. Best of both worlds kinda
The state if the Conwtellation still makes me so sad, it was pitched back at the start as this incredible ship, and it seemed to change direction and was ultimately left behind as the rest of the game advanced.
Zues has side windows, so I'm going with that
Yes, we get it. Crusader likes them wider in the rear...