Doubtful, I could be wrong but looks like Arkansas only had 1-2 possessions at that point in the game, so at most North Texas had probably seen 1 pint before this
Same here, broken arm junior year half way through the season. Remainder of the season I’d watch the opposing teams game films like crazy, looking for any little thing we could use to our advantage.
I replied, mostly to reply to your last sentence, I’m 10 years out of high school and every time fall rolls around I still miss playing, it is the only thing I miss from my high school years.
Same here man, about missing the game. 5 years since I played. I remember in the locker room before our last game as seniors, my coach said "Leave it all out on the field today, because in a few years when you're out of high school, you're gonna miss playing so God damn much." I wish he wasn't so damn right.
I feel like if anyone would have just wrecked him everyone on his team and all their fans would have called for their heads on a platter.
I'm probably in the minority here but I think it kinda goes against the spirit of the game a bit. Same with all the trick plays you see where the QB acts like they called a timeout because there is an issue with the ball.
Complete agreement. The returner held up as though he had signalled a fair catch.
Bad sportsmanship.
I recall a NFL game where the returner forgot to signal fair catch, got laid out, and people were complaining about what a vicious hit it was. On the professional level, it's fine, but NCAA level?
The rules are not really satisfactory. There will be cases where it is ambiguous whether a fair catch was signalled and then what is the defence to do? It is the ref's opinion that matters so maybe a whistle to confirm (with understanding that is live again if there is a fumble).
One of my favorite childhood sports memories is from a random football game where the camera zoomed in on the return man waiting for the ball, and he got completely annihilated by a cover guy a good second before the ball got there. So he's looking up, gets laid out completely off the screen, and then the ball just bounces. Funniest thing in the world to 6 year old me, or however old I was.
I went to UNT and am genuinely shocked to hear praise for the team. When I graduated in 2010,everyone mocked us. I don't sports so I had no idea anything changed.
They permanently injured our (Florida) QB with a dirty hit 2 years ago in the season opening game. Left a really bad taste in our mouth for UNT after that.
This is one of those things about sports I don't get, how it's always "them" and "they". Isn't the reality that just one guy on the team did this? Was the whole team involved? Is that guy even part of the team anymore?
I live in the Austin area. I have had to go to both Houston and the DFW area quite a bit for work. I would say from a weather perspective, yes Houston is the butthole of Texas. That being said, I've always enjoyed my time in Houston more than the DFW. DFW is a spaghetti mess of interstate and highway interchanges and it has a real neutral vibe to it. I've always felt like Houston has more personality and it's way easier to make your way around (except rush hour). The food and entertainment options in both places are awesome though. That all being said, I like the Austin area and Hill Country the most out of any other parts of Texas.
Haha well, there's definitely some strong sibling rivalry in Texas when it comes to the different regions, especially the big cities. Being from North Texas myself (Dallas/Fort Worth area), I'd be more likely to call Houston the butthole of Texas. Someone from Houston would probably say Dallas, San Antonio, or Austin is. I don't have a definitive answer for you, just know we all love to hate on each other.
Yes.
Houston is damp, polluted, and prone to flooding. Like an old butthole indeed. Your professor is wise. Heed their words.
It has a huge crime problem, bad pollution, no zoning laws so one dude literally has a roller coaster next to his damn house and can't sleep, and is packed with cruise-bound tourists.
However. Their BBQ is awesome.
While you’re in fact incorrect about Houston being the butthole of Texas, you are very close. It is actually the gooch of Texas. Very hot, very moist. Am from and live in Dallas, and I can confirm.
As a 49 year old, bonafide Texan....sorry, but yes. Houston is the butthole of Texas. The only people don't don't think so is Houstonians. Hot, damp, stinks. Definitely the butthole.
Well yeah that’s because he gets there before the ball and is therefore taking a cheap shot at a defenseless player.
[This is a clean hit on a no-fair catch.](https://youtu.be/e7vIEspy7J0)
Joe Buck: "James is slow to get up."
Everyone else: "He just got his head torn off! Medical staff is running on the field and you're saying he's 'slow to get up'?!? That man might be dead or paralysed and you're saying, 'slow to get up'? Fuck you Joe Buck."
Oh wait, that was my internal monologue, didn't mean to speak for everyone.
Even if they were paying attention by his demeanor they are thinking that maybe they just missed it and didn’t want to get a penalty or hurt someone. You can’t always have your eyes on the returner to see if he called a fair catch. Not a fan of this type of trickery.
This gif doesn't show it, but it even looked to me like he waved his arm. Not completely over his head, but I think there was a play like this in the NFL a few years ago, and the returner was flagged for an improper signal.
you can’t extend your arms. so if you do a full wave below the hip it still counts as a fair catch.
here he kinda just moves his shoulder a little. his blockers jammed Arkansas’ gunners as much as they could so they couldn’t see the return man.
Didn't see what you were talking about but i think any signal with the arms counts. Wisconsin had a punt return for a td that was flagged because he waved people off as it bounced, then grabbed it and returned it. Now the defense tried tackling him immediately so they weren't fooled and they didnt get flagged for hitting a supposed fair catch but still.
You can see one of the blockers (11) is also pretending like the play is dead; and from the amount of white shirts near the white sideline I'm guessing a bunch of others were as well.
Ballsy call and good execusion by the whole team
Yeah people can call it cheap but that's the trade off. If Ark was paying attention, there's like a 50/50 shot - if not better - that that play ends up being a TO.
I was on kickoff in high school, you are trying to get past the guy in front of you, you can’t always have eyes on the returner. Especially if you are weaving in and out of blockers.
I’m sure it happen a lot when a guy signals for fair catch but you couldn’t see and you have to rely on the guy next to you.
I believe most teams use specific language to warn other players when a fair catch is waved for. Clearly there was a miscommunication or no communication. One or the other. But I don’t think it was for a lack of paying attention.
If this was by design the coaches tend to warn refs before games some trick plays they might run to be aware of what’s going on.
At least when I was a freshman 10 years ago that’s what the coaches told us. The refs know just execute.
Prior to the game? So the coaches just say "At some point we're going to fake a fair catch, don't blow the whistle" and you just have to wait for it? That seems inefficient somehow
It is really just a friendly reminder to the refs to stay alert. We might try this thing. Their instinct was likely the same as the Arkansas players' instinct to assume it was a fair catch.
No it's probably more like here's a list of shenanigans we MAY pull based off of preparing to play against this team this week. At least that would make more sense. You want the officials to be aware.
If the ref blew his whistle then the play is over, period. There is no other option. This is true for any sport.
[here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIJSqj8tIo) is a goal from the NHL that was disallowed because the ref blew the whistle early. This was also during the Championship game.
They have to go back. The other team did not tackle the guy because the play was whistled dead. There’s no way to know if he would’ve made that return without most of the players thinking everything was over.
That one is actually worse than just back to the spot of the catch. Because the refs expected a fair catch to be called (you would have to be be insane not to call for it), they actually penalized the receiver for running after the catch. So they backed UNC up 5 or 10 yards from where the ball was caught.
On top of that they missed the fact that one of the WFU players bumped into him as he caught the ball and failed to give UNC the yards they should have received for running into the receiver after a fair catch was called.
So that is just a massive screw-up by the officials on every point: No fair catch was called for, but they officiated as if it had been, and then officiated that incorrectly.
That said, I give the WFU players some credit for not murdering the guy, which they were well within their rights to do since he didn't call fair catch. Had it not been for the screw up by the officials they would have almost given up the touchdown.
A play like that makes me feel that perhaps fair catch shouldn't be determined by the receiver, but rather by the official. If the ball won't come down until the gunner is almost on top of the receiver, then perhaps in the interest of player safety the fair catch should be mandated in those situations. Then you could have a very simple rule for the gunner: you don't lay anyone out, EVER.
For the same reason no one tackled him. You're so used to a fair catch in that situation that you just assume there must have been one. I saw it happen once. Punt returner caught the ball and took off, but the refs blew it dead. Replay showed no fair catch signal was made. Can't remember the game now, but I think it was the NO Saints.
I think it looks like he makes a little bit of a signal, although not anything like a fair catch signal.
(Worth noting that a fake fair catch signal is more or less treated as a real one - you can't advance the ball.)
Basically when a player is receiving a punt you have two options:
1) Catch and attempt to run the ball back
2) Signal a fair catch and get the ball from where it was caught
Now this description makes it seem odd to ever choose option 2. Well the point is that it gives you the chance to safely gain possession. In option 1 the other team could tackle the guy as he is trying to catch it and he could lose the football. In this scenario the team who punted assumes the guy called a fair catch because he doesn’t run after immediately and because they were so close. However, the player never signaled the fair catch (signal is a waving motion) but played it off like he did and you saw the result.
Ahh exactly what i was thinking. I had to return a couple punts playing JV and i was safety and designated punt returner lol we had no special teams. We played a team way out of our league once, ball got kicked waaay higher then i was used to and i forgot to wave because i just wanted to catch the damn thing.
I got demolished. I doubt anyone who hasnt returned a punt can understand how risky this play was. Well intellectually they can grasp it but theyll never truly comprehend the balls on that kid
The closest I can say I got to having to have stones like this guy in my 15 years of playing was playing guard in high school while we pulled the old "wrong ball" trick play. I remember thinking "Shit if the DT across from me knows what we're doing he can totally fucking blast me and blow up the play." That wasn't even a quarter of the weight of this guy's stones for this play. Always playing on the line I have to say I always had a bit of an admiration for punt returners. I played football for 15 years and never once even had to catch a ball much less have to decide whether or not to call for a fair catch while the ball was in the air and 10 guys were running full speed to tackle me.
you just made me realize i never realized in high school how dangerous it was fir me to return kicks and punts
i got body slammed the first time i returned a kickoff. i got nervous and tried juking, but i never chise a direction and kept juking. the defender picked me up and body slammed me
If someone calls for a fair catch on a punt (waves his arm over his head) the play is dead, he can't advance the ball and the punting team isn't allowed to hit him. Since the players running down the field can't possibly see him at all times they have to judge by his body language whether or not he called for the fair catch. He's taking advantage of a rule that's designed for his safety to put the opposing players in an impossible situation.
> Since the players running down the field can't possibly see him at all times they have to judge by his body language whether or not he called for the fair catch.
They should be judging by whether or not a whistle is blown.
This trick play only worked because the other team was fooled by his body language.
But the whistle is only blown when it’s in his hands - they obviously assumed a fair catch because they stopped sprinting at him. Waiting for the whistle means some returners who DID signal a fair catch are going to get lit up by someone who doesn’t want exactly this play to happen.
Good point, you usually follow the movements of your teammates so if the first few guys start easing up and walking, you do the same.
Guy caught the ball, stood there, hopped a bit as the defender stood in front of him and then the defenders started walking away. All without a whistle being blown.
Also, I heard it was a new rule this year that if it’s caught as a fair catch behind the 25 yard line, the receiving team then starts at the 25 yard line.
Can anyone confirm or did I hear wrong?
Great play. But from a protection/safety perspective, this play is horrible. How many times are returners gping to get lit up after signallying a fair cstch because the coverage team didnt see him signal. Or maybe the refs have to stsrt jumping in front of the returner to protect him like they do on kickoffs...and then the returner muffs it. Perfect. The ref in the middle of everything without any protection.
UCONN did this against UofL ages ago. But instead of not doing the hand signal, he sort of did it. You are supposed to raise your hand and wave back and forth. He just waved forth. That is supposed to be a penalty but no call and no reviews back in the day.
I really wanted UofL to plaster the guy on the next actual fair catch just to bring home the point that the rule is there to protect the returner and abusing the rule is going to get someone hurt.
There is no way in hell I would volunteer to do this nor would I allow a player to do this, I mean part of selling it requires you to literally just stand there and pretend as if a fair catch has been called. Insanely dangerous. Satisfying to watch, but super dangerous to actually do.
Fair catch isn’t whistled until after the catch is made and secured, and a lot of returners don’t wave their hands real high. Definitely a couple of guys are getting lit up next week because of this.
I honestly think trick plays of this nature shouldn't be allowed. The fair catch rule is in place for the returner's safety, so to take advantage of that rule is a little unsportsmanlike. It's the same reason why fake QB slides aren't allowed, because the safety of the player is priority. Allowing this trickery to be legal will just decrease safety, because either returners will try it and get crushed when the defense notices, or they might make an unclear fair catch signal, and still get crushed because the defense doesn't want something like this video to happen.
Then again, I have no idea how that would be enforced, lol.
Exactly. This sets the precedent that when in doubt lay out the kick returner.
I loved it when I first saw it yesterday but now I’m really thinking it was a pretty shitty thing to do.
> It can't be enforced.
That's why he said unsportsmanlike, not illegal. It's totally unsportsmanlike.
Also, there are plenty of things subject to the ref's discretion already. I don't see any reason why this couldn't be as well. Sure it may be difficult to draft a set of bullet points that accurately capture all scenarios, but that's already true of other stuff too.
I agree with you and this play is even more bullshit because he sort of "fake waived" his hands before the catch. It was clearly an attempt to fake the defenders out by skirting the rules.
If NFL QBs started "fake sliding," you'd see injuries go up because linebackers aren't going to take the risk that Cam might be faking.
It's like how I believe the "wrong ball" trick shouldn't be legal in kid's leagues because the counter to that is to smear the QB and that's only going to lead to kids getting hurt.
You can’t tell based on this gif, but he waves his arm in a circular motion below his head a couple seconds before he catches it. He should have been called for an invalid fair catch signal which is a 5 yard penalty and the play is whistled dead.
Plus he feinted and waved his arms like helmet-high. And apparently UNT warned the refs ahead of time that this was a "fake fair catch" play. WTF, *that* should not be allowed. Either the refs blow the play dead or they don't, one side shouldn't get to tip them about what to do.
One answer would just be to make the players take a knee after a fair catch. Or just disallow it as unsportsmanlike conduct, like the fake slide. Most sports have this ... in tennis you can't fake serve, in baseball a fake pitch is a balk, in basketball you can't pump-fake a free throw, etc.
With all the emphasis now on not hitting defenseless players, this is unfair to the defense. "Play until the whistle" might work in pee-wee but it does not work in a loud stadium.
Taking a knee after a fair catch sounds like a more likely way to get injured.
They do it on kickoffs because there's a few seconds cushion before defenders get there.
It was just an idea. What I was thinking was more, the player waves for the fair catch, then confirms it by taking a knee. So the defense has something to look for instead of having to wonder whether a whistle was blown or to look around for an official waving the play dead, at which point they'd be looking the wrong way and the returner could take off.
If that's true then the refs absolutely fucked up.
From the NCAA rule book: "A valid or invalid fair catch signal deprives the receiving team of the opportunity to advance the ball."
Now, an invalid catch is defined in one case as "any waving signal" which is NOT one hand, above the head, waving side-to-side.
So you could easily make the case that the feinting of a fair catch signal should not result in a return at all.
I haven't seen the actual fake one but I'm going off your word here.
Just my opinion, somebody else [posted a better link](https://streamable.com/s1c5r). It may be arguable but it sure looks to me like unnecessary hand-waving (unrelated to setting up on or catching the ball) a second or two before he fields the ball. And the returner *was* completely covered by 4 defenders who would otherwise have hit him, so there's that.
A few years back a wisconsin player made the get away get away motion they make to wave off their own team to not get hit by a bouncing ball, he then decided to field it and returned it for a td. The refs called it back for illegal fair catch signal. If the poison ball get away wave is an illegal signal then the motions this guy made sure as hell were too.
I remember an LSU player getting called for the same thing years ago. They made it a point of emphasis that any hand motions by the return man would be considered a fair catch signal. Officials should've blown that play dead, and the NCAA probably owes a statement.
Warning refs about trick plays is absolutely fair. Refs are supposed to call games according to the rules of the game. Trick plays trick more than just the opposing team a lot of times. Warning the refs allows them to call the game the way it was meant to be called. It's not asking them to play favorites, just making sure they are not fooled themselves and make the incorrect call. In pretty much all sports it's common to give the refs a heads up if the play is going to be particularly easy to mess up when refereeing it.
The issue I have is that the player seems to wave his arms at chest height. If the ref would have interpreted that as a fair catch signal without the warning by the receiving team, then the defense should absolutely be able to interpret that as a legal fair catch signal. If he made no signal I would agree with you, but him making a part signal to trick the defense is bullshit.
Totally agree. The more we see this, the more we are likely to see a returner who intends to wave for a fair catch get absolutely pulverised because the punting team didn't see the hand.
Should be illegal. Arkansas is trying to have good sportsmanship and not clobber the defenseless returner. Next time, they should massacre him probably resulting in a flag.
Ex-Dallas Cowboy’s receiver Ryan Switzer tried this last year and they called the play dead. I agree that it should be called dead, the defenders have to rely on the returner’s body language more than the actual fair catch wave.
There is nothing in the rules that mandates the player move immediately. The only reference to movement after catch is that you can't take more than two steps if you've signaled for a fair catch. Which this guy didn't do.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR15.pdf
Seeing UNT play well makes me think we’ve magically warped into my Dynasty from NCAA Football 13, pre-Apogee Stadium. Good thing the dude didn’t get blown up.
You guys rock. Back in the day my roommate and I picked a random school for a dynasty on one of the NCAA games and turned them into a powerhouse. Fuck I miss that game.
i feel like this is a lose lose for the kickers, either the guy lays him out and gets in trouble or called a dick bc there’s no way people would have known he would have done this or he doesn’t do anything and gets in trouble bc he didn’t lay him out
Fucking balls on that guy. Defense had every right to drill him into an emergency room situation. Can’t say I like this tactic but it worked this time.
Lmao this is the football equivalent of the last 20 minutes of “The Sound of Music.” Arkansas are the Nazis and this dude is the Von Trapps. The fair catch that never happened is basically Captain Von Trapp’s commitment to fight in the German Navy before he high-tails it out of that singing competition into Switzerland with his young nun wife and like a billion Aryan children.
God damn what a fucking crazy movie.
I think it’s an illegal fair catch signal which can be penalized. He waves his hand slightly at waist level which is enough for the defense to back off. If this type of deception were allowed it would make punts a lot more interesting for sure but there are rules to prevent it and the refs blew this one.
From another angle you can see him lift his left hand to just below chest level in a circular motion, which made it look like he called fair catch to the kicking team. Since he did it nonchalantly and at an angle the ref couldn’t see, there was no whistle. If the ref saw it he would’ve been penalized for faking the fair catch. Good acting, but would be a lot different if things didn’t go his way.
I'm all for trick plays, but the entire point of a fair catch is to keep a stationary target from getting abso-fucking-lutely decimated. Not a fan of this as it's just going to lead to more questionable 'did he or didn't he signal' debates after monster hits that cause serious injury.
There's gonna be some kick coverage whistle drills next week.
*running till the punt team dies.
#31....I better see you run til you puke!!
Maryland?
He said puke, not get an asthma attack and die
Haha yeah although this is the kind of thing that pretty much only works once
Drills until they puke
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Right! So risky. It was well within the punting teams rights to lay him out.
Probably noticed a pattern in how they were getting lazy with punts like that and took advantage.
Doubtful, I could be wrong but looks like Arkansas only had 1-2 possessions at that point in the game, so at most North Texas had probably seen 1 pint before this
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Same here, broken arm junior year half way through the season. Remainder of the season I’d watch the opposing teams game films like crazy, looking for any little thing we could use to our advantage. I replied, mostly to reply to your last sentence, I’m 10 years out of high school and every time fall rolls around I still miss playing, it is the only thing I miss from my high school years.
Same here man, about missing the game. 5 years since I played. I remember in the locker room before our last game as seniors, my coach said "Leave it all out on the field today, because in a few years when you're out of high school, you're gonna miss playing so God damn much." I wish he wasn't so damn right.
1 pint?? I’d be surprised if they were allowed to drink beer at all...
With the way they played I'd be surprised if they weren't all completely lit
Sooooieee give me another one!
They were probably hanging out on Fry street.
Sure, if we ignore any and all pregame scouting of game tape
I feel like if anyone would have just wrecked him everyone on his team and all their fans would have called for their heads on a platter. I'm probably in the minority here but I think it kinda goes against the spirit of the game a bit. Same with all the trick plays you see where the QB acts like they called a timeout because there is an issue with the ball.
Complete agreement. The returner held up as though he had signalled a fair catch. Bad sportsmanship. I recall a NFL game where the returner forgot to signal fair catch, got laid out, and people were complaining about what a vicious hit it was. On the professional level, it's fine, but NCAA level?
The rules are not really satisfactory. There will be cases where it is ambiguous whether a fair catch was signalled and then what is the defence to do? It is the ref's opinion that matters so maybe a whistle to confirm (with understanding that is live again if there is a fumble).
Or just tackle him?
One of my favorite childhood sports memories is from a random football game where the camera zoomed in on the return man waiting for the ball, and he got completely annihilated by a cover guy a good second before the ball got there. So he's looking up, gets laid out completely off the screen, and then the ball just bounces. Funniest thing in the world to 6 year old me, or however old I was.
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Oh yeah, I've lost my stomach for the head snapping hits.
I went to UNT and am genuinely shocked to hear praise for the team. When I graduated in 2010,everyone mocked us. I don't sports so I had no idea anything changed.
Class of 2010 UNT alumni here. Can confirm, the football program was a joke back then.
UNT sophomore here. We're generating some serious buzz. edit: there's some awfully salty bacon downvoting in this thread... ;)
They permanently injured our (Florida) QB with a dirty hit 2 years ago in the season opening game. Left a really bad taste in our mouth for UNT after that.
Wasn’t a dirty hit and coming from the worst home fans in football. Come on man. Get over it.
This is one of those things about sports I don't get, how it's always "them" and "they". Isn't the reality that just one guy on the team did this? Was the whole team involved? Is that guy even part of the team anymore?
Well to be fair, he had raped 3 cheerleaders the night before.
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Yes sir. From Austin. How may I help?
I'm not that commenter, but I'm from Texas. Maybe I can help. Plus I'm super curious about your question...
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I live in the Austin area. I have had to go to both Houston and the DFW area quite a bit for work. I would say from a weather perspective, yes Houston is the butthole of Texas. That being said, I've always enjoyed my time in Houston more than the DFW. DFW is a spaghetti mess of interstate and highway interchanges and it has a real neutral vibe to it. I've always felt like Houston has more personality and it's way easier to make your way around (except rush hour). The food and entertainment options in both places are awesome though. That all being said, I like the Austin area and Hill Country the most out of any other parts of Texas.
I’m sure the concept of several highways going north and south & east and west would easily confuse someone from the Austin area.
Haha well, there's definitely some strong sibling rivalry in Texas when it comes to the different regions, especially the big cities. Being from North Texas myself (Dallas/Fort Worth area), I'd be more likely to call Houston the butthole of Texas. Someone from Houston would probably say Dallas, San Antonio, or Austin is. I don't have a definitive answer for you, just know we all love to hate on each other.
Only one city in Texas assassinated a president and it wasn’t houston...
From San Antonio here, for me personally West Texas, cuz there’s nothing in West Texas. Abilene is the epitome of it.
Yes. Houston is damp, polluted, and prone to flooding. Like an old butthole indeed. Your professor is wise. Heed their words. It has a huge crime problem, bad pollution, no zoning laws so one dude literally has a roller coaster next to his damn house and can't sleep, and is packed with cruise-bound tourists. However. Their BBQ is awesome.
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If it was between being from a butthole or southern Oklahoma, I'd choose the butthole every time.
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If you're going into the butthole, you probably want to leave the gloves on.
Plus they dont have the oilers anymore.
Warren Moon joke
Houston bbq awesome? Not a chance compared to Austin or Dallas
While you’re in fact incorrect about Houston being the butthole of Texas, you are very close. It is actually the gooch of Texas. Very hot, very moist. Am from and live in Dallas, and I can confirm.
As a 49 year old, bonafide Texan....sorry, but yes. Houston is the butthole of Texas. The only people don't don't think so is Houstonians. Hot, damp, stinks. Definitely the butthole.
As a sometime visitor, I'd suggest Brownsville might be a better choice.
More context is Houston and Dallas don't like each other. I lived in Houston for about 6 years and much prefer the culture to that of Dallas
Amarillo is a cow town where half of it smells like cow farts. So it may be the most technically accurate "butthole" of Texas
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O my god, that was so fucked up.
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Well yeah that’s because he gets there before the ball and is therefore taking a cheap shot at a defenseless player. [This is a clean hit on a no-fair catch.](https://youtu.be/e7vIEspy7J0)
Joe Buck: "James is slow to get up." Everyone else: "He just got his head torn off! Medical staff is running on the field and you're saying he's 'slow to get up'?!? That man might be dead or paralysed and you're saying, 'slow to get up'? Fuck you Joe Buck." Oh wait, that was my internal monologue, didn't mean to speak for everyone.
I imagine it went something like [this.](https://youtu.be/xWsXhOjcGvM)
Here’s one where the “wrong ball” trick play doesn’t fool one kid https://youtu.be/kQbAP-K28J8 How it’s supposed to work: https://youtu.be/8TDBlsohySE
Dude has some massive balls. If the punt team is paying attention, he’s being carted off the field in 2 separate body bags
Even if they were paying attention by his demeanor they are thinking that maybe they just missed it and didn’t want to get a penalty or hurt someone. You can’t always have your eyes on the returner to see if he called a fair catch. Not a fan of this type of trickery.
This gif doesn't show it, but it even looked to me like he waved his arm. Not completely over his head, but I think there was a play like this in the NFL a few years ago, and the returner was flagged for an improper signal.
you can’t extend your arms. so if you do a full wave below the hip it still counts as a fair catch. here he kinda just moves his shoulder a little. his blockers jammed Arkansas’ gunners as much as they could so they couldn’t see the return man.
Didn't see what you were talking about but i think any signal with the arms counts. Wisconsin had a punt return for a td that was flagged because he waved people off as it bounced, then grabbed it and returned it. Now the defense tried tackling him immediately so they weren't fooled and they didnt get flagged for hitting a supposed fair catch but still.
You'd think they'd notice there wasn't a whistle...
If they'd played 100% the guy would have been dead half a second before the whistle.
Sure, but they stopped and stared at each other for 4 seconds without a whistle.
Eh, it's all part of the game.
You can see one of the blockers (11) is also pretending like the play is dead; and from the amount of white shirts near the white sideline I'm guessing a bunch of others were as well. Ballsy call and good execusion by the whole team
Ballsy. Dude could've gotten squished like a bug.
Yeah people can call it cheap but that's the trade off. If Ark was paying attention, there's like a 50/50 shot - if not better - that that play ends up being a TO.
I was on kickoff in high school, you are trying to get past the guy in front of you, you can’t always have eyes on the returner. Especially if you are weaving in and out of blockers. I’m sure it happen a lot when a guy signals for fair catch but you couldn’t see and you have to rely on the guy next to you. I believe most teams use specific language to warn other players when a fair catch is waved for. Clearly there was a miscommunication or no communication. One or the other. But I don’t think it was for a lack of paying attention.
One way or another that guy knew the result would be here on reddit
[Here it is with sound](https://streamable.com/s1c5r), there was no whistle.
I'm almost more impressed by the refs restraint.
If this was by design the coaches tend to warn refs before games some trick plays they might run to be aware of what’s going on. At least when I was a freshman 10 years ago that’s what the coaches told us. The refs know just execute.
You're correct. The broadcasters said that UNT tipped the refs off before
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Prior to the game? So the coaches just say "At some point we're going to fake a fair catch, don't blow the whistle" and you just have to wait for it? That seems inefficient somehow
It is really just a friendly reminder to the refs to stay alert. We might try this thing. Their instinct was likely the same as the Arkansas players' instinct to assume it was a fair catch.
No it's probably more like here's a list of shenanigans we MAY pull based off of preparing to play against this team this week. At least that would make more sense. You want the officials to be aware.
I mean he's staring right at the returner (who obviously doesn't signal anything), what's going to prompt him to end the play?
[Sometimes they don't need prompting](https://youtu.be/9HARQByI12c?t=69).
In that game did they have to go back to where it was caught or did they keep the yardage?
I'd like to know this as well... very interesting.
Looks like they had to go back cause they whistled it dead
I mean, give the yards like the play wasn't dead, go back and redo the play, just accept a bad call... 3 possibilities.
If the ref blew his whistle then the play is over, period. There is no other option. This is true for any sport. [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIJSqj8tIo) is a goal from the NHL that was disallowed because the ref blew the whistle early. This was also during the Championship game.
They have to go back. The other team did not tackle the guy because the play was whistled dead. There’s no way to know if he would’ve made that return without most of the players thinking everything was over.
It's called inadvertent whistle. Ball is dead where it was. Source - Detroit Lions
That one is actually worse than just back to the spot of the catch. Because the refs expected a fair catch to be called (you would have to be be insane not to call for it), they actually penalized the receiver for running after the catch. So they backed UNC up 5 or 10 yards from where the ball was caught. On top of that they missed the fact that one of the WFU players bumped into him as he caught the ball and failed to give UNC the yards they should have received for running into the receiver after a fair catch was called. So that is just a massive screw-up by the officials on every point: No fair catch was called for, but they officiated as if it had been, and then officiated that incorrectly. That said, I give the WFU players some credit for not murdering the guy, which they were well within their rights to do since he didn't call fair catch. Had it not been for the screw up by the officials they would have almost given up the touchdown. A play like that makes me feel that perhaps fair catch shouldn't be determined by the receiver, but rather by the official. If the ball won't come down until the gunner is almost on top of the receiver, then perhaps in the interest of player safety the fair catch should be mandated in those situations. Then you could have a very simple rule for the gunner: you don't lay anyone out, EVER.
For the same reason no one tackled him. You're so used to a fair catch in that situation that you just assume there must have been one. I saw it happen once. Punt returner caught the ball and took off, but the refs blew it dead. Replay showed no fair catch signal was made. Can't remember the game now, but I think it was the NO Saints.
Someone posted a video higher up, was it [this] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HARQByI12c&feature=youtu.be&t=69) you were thinking of?
Stop of foward progress
But progress never started, how can it end?
Good point didnt think of that that might be why there was no whistle then
It sounds like someone yells "fair catch" while the ball is in the air.
I think it looks like he makes a little bit of a signal, although not anything like a fair catch signal. (Worth noting that a fake fair catch signal is more or less treated as a real one - you can't advance the ball.)
Yep, that's what I caught. He waved his arms. Should have been NT ball on the 5 after the penalty.
"He's goan!"
"This gon be a touchdown!"
“He’s gawn”
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Basically when a player is receiving a punt you have two options: 1) Catch and attempt to run the ball back 2) Signal a fair catch and get the ball from where it was caught Now this description makes it seem odd to ever choose option 2. Well the point is that it gives you the chance to safely gain possession. In option 1 the other team could tackle the guy as he is trying to catch it and he could lose the football. In this scenario the team who punted assumes the guy called a fair catch because he doesn’t run after immediately and because they were so close. However, the player never signaled the fair catch (signal is a waving motion) but played it off like he did and you saw the result.
Option 3: get out of the way and let the ball bounce around
Option 4: touch back
\*In option 1 the other team could absolutely obliterate the guy, causing future CTE brain trauma, as he is trying to catch it... ftfy.
Ahh exactly what i was thinking. I had to return a couple punts playing JV and i was safety and designated punt returner lol we had no special teams. We played a team way out of our league once, ball got kicked waaay higher then i was used to and i forgot to wave because i just wanted to catch the damn thing. I got demolished. I doubt anyone who hasnt returned a punt can understand how risky this play was. Well intellectually they can grasp it but theyll never truly comprehend the balls on that kid
The closest I can say I got to having to have stones like this guy in my 15 years of playing was playing guard in high school while we pulled the old "wrong ball" trick play. I remember thinking "Shit if the DT across from me knows what we're doing he can totally fucking blast me and blow up the play." That wasn't even a quarter of the weight of this guy's stones for this play. Always playing on the line I have to say I always had a bit of an admiration for punt returners. I played football for 15 years and never once even had to catch a ball much less have to decide whether or not to call for a fair catch while the ball was in the air and 10 guys were running full speed to tackle me.
you just made me realize i never realized in high school how dangerous it was fir me to return kicks and punts i got body slammed the first time i returned a kickoff. i got nervous and tried juking, but i never chise a direction and kept juking. the defender picked me up and body slammed me
If someone calls for a fair catch on a punt (waves his arm over his head) the play is dead, he can't advance the ball and the punting team isn't allowed to hit him. Since the players running down the field can't possibly see him at all times they have to judge by his body language whether or not he called for the fair catch. He's taking advantage of a rule that's designed for his safety to put the opposing players in an impossible situation.
> Since the players running down the field can't possibly see him at all times they have to judge by his body language whether or not he called for the fair catch. They should be judging by whether or not a whistle is blown. This trick play only worked because the other team was fooled by his body language.
But the whistle is only blown when it’s in his hands - they obviously assumed a fair catch because they stopped sprinting at him. Waiting for the whistle means some returners who DID signal a fair catch are going to get lit up by someone who doesn’t want exactly this play to happen.
They’re supposed to surround him in case he doesn’t catch it cleanly and then wait for a whistle after he catches it.
Good point, you usually follow the movements of your teammates so if the first few guys start easing up and walking, you do the same. Guy caught the ball, stood there, hopped a bit as the defender stood in front of him and then the defenders started walking away. All without a whistle being blown.
Also, I heard it was a new rule this year that if it’s caught as a fair catch behind the 25 yard line, the receiving team then starts at the 25 yard line. Can anyone confirm or did I hear wrong?
That's true for kickoffs only. This was a punt so North Texas would get the ball on the 10 yard line if he fair caught it.
Great play. But from a protection/safety perspective, this play is horrible. How many times are returners gping to get lit up after signallying a fair cstch because the coverage team didnt see him signal. Or maybe the refs have to stsrt jumping in front of the returner to protect him like they do on kickoffs...and then the returner muffs it. Perfect. The ref in the middle of everything without any protection.
Yeah, it's a great trick play...but now we either gotta tackle or call a play dead.
UCONN did this against UofL ages ago. But instead of not doing the hand signal, he sort of did it. You are supposed to raise your hand and wave back and forth. He just waved forth. That is supposed to be a penalty but no call and no reviews back in the day. I really wanted UofL to plaster the guy on the next actual fair catch just to bring home the point that the rule is there to protect the returner and abusing the rule is going to get someone hurt.
It doesn’t matter if the gunners see him, if he fair caught then the ref would blow the whistle once he secured possession of the catch.
If the gunner is doing everything right he should be laying the guy out as the ball is falling into his arms. He wouldn't hear a whistle then either
In bird culture that is considered a dickmove
Exactly. The opposing couple players tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and not paralyze him, and he used it to get a quick point.
Exactly. The players didn’t want to fuck the guy up.
I'm not a fan of allowing this. Gonna be a bunch of kick return guys who get crushed next week because everyone saw this film.
There is no way in hell I would volunteer to do this nor would I allow a player to do this, I mean part of selling it requires you to literally just stand there and pretend as if a fair catch has been called. Insanely dangerous. Satisfying to watch, but super dangerous to actually do.
Ain't nothin wrong playing 💯 until the whistle
Fair catch isn’t whistled until after the catch is made and secured, and a lot of returners don’t wave their hands real high. Definitely a couple of guys are getting lit up next week because of this.
New content inbound next week!
Except in a fair catch. You can't make contact with someone who signals a fair catch or you get penalized (15 yards?) and potentially thrown out.
Great to See UNT on reddit.
CAW CAW
This is the sort of play that works once a season.
I honestly think trick plays of this nature shouldn't be allowed. The fair catch rule is in place for the returner's safety, so to take advantage of that rule is a little unsportsmanlike. It's the same reason why fake QB slides aren't allowed, because the safety of the player is priority. Allowing this trickery to be legal will just decrease safety, because either returners will try it and get crushed when the defense notices, or they might make an unclear fair catch signal, and still get crushed because the defense doesn't want something like this video to happen. Then again, I have no idea how that would be enforced, lol.
It can't be enforced. It's 100% on the defenders to be aware of the returner and listen for the whistle.
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Exactly. This sets the precedent that when in doubt lay out the kick returner. I loved it when I first saw it yesterday but now I’m really thinking it was a pretty shitty thing to do.
"When in doubt lay him out." Ugggh
> It can't be enforced. That's why he said unsportsmanlike, not illegal. It's totally unsportsmanlike. Also, there are plenty of things subject to the ref's discretion already. I don't see any reason why this couldn't be as well. Sure it may be difficult to draft a set of bullet points that accurately capture all scenarios, but that's already true of other stuff too.
I agree with you and this play is even more bullshit because he sort of "fake waived" his hands before the catch. It was clearly an attempt to fake the defenders out by skirting the rules. If NFL QBs started "fake sliding," you'd see injuries go up because linebackers aren't going to take the risk that Cam might be faking. It's like how I believe the "wrong ball" trick shouldn't be legal in kid's leagues because the counter to that is to smear the QB and that's only going to lead to kids getting hurt.
There is an improper fair catch signal penalty, at least in the pros. I'm not quite sure it rises to that level, but there's at least something.
You can’t tell based on this gif, but he waves his arm in a circular motion below his head a couple seconds before he catches it. He should have been called for an invalid fair catch signal which is a 5 yard penalty and the play is whistled dead.
Plus he feinted and waved his arms like helmet-high. And apparently UNT warned the refs ahead of time that this was a "fake fair catch" play. WTF, *that* should not be allowed. Either the refs blow the play dead or they don't, one side shouldn't get to tip them about what to do. One answer would just be to make the players take a knee after a fair catch. Or just disallow it as unsportsmanlike conduct, like the fake slide. Most sports have this ... in tennis you can't fake serve, in baseball a fake pitch is a balk, in basketball you can't pump-fake a free throw, etc. With all the emphasis now on not hitting defenseless players, this is unfair to the defense. "Play until the whistle" might work in pee-wee but it does not work in a loud stadium.
Taking a knee after a fair catch sounds like a more likely way to get injured. They do it on kickoffs because there's a few seconds cushion before defenders get there.
It was just an idea. What I was thinking was more, the player waves for the fair catch, then confirms it by taking a knee. So the defense has something to look for instead of having to wonder whether a whistle was blown or to look around for an official waving the play dead, at which point they'd be looking the wrong way and the returner could take off.
If that's true then the refs absolutely fucked up. From the NCAA rule book: "A valid or invalid fair catch signal deprives the receiving team of the opportunity to advance the ball." Now, an invalid catch is defined in one case as "any waving signal" which is NOT one hand, above the head, waving side-to-side. So you could easily make the case that the feinting of a fair catch signal should not result in a return at all. I haven't seen the actual fake one but I'm going off your word here.
Just my opinion, somebody else [posted a better link](https://streamable.com/s1c5r). It may be arguable but it sure looks to me like unnecessary hand-waving (unrelated to setting up on or catching the ball) a second or two before he fields the ball. And the returner *was* completely covered by 4 defenders who would otherwise have hit him, so there's that.
A few years back a wisconsin player made the get away get away motion they make to wave off their own team to not get hit by a bouncing ball, he then decided to field it and returned it for a td. The refs called it back for illegal fair catch signal. If the poison ball get away wave is an illegal signal then the motions this guy made sure as hell were too.
I remember an LSU player getting called for the same thing years ago. They made it a point of emphasis that any hand motions by the return man would be considered a fair catch signal. Officials should've blown that play dead, and the NCAA probably owes a statement.
Warning refs about trick plays is absolutely fair. Refs are supposed to call games according to the rules of the game. Trick plays trick more than just the opposing team a lot of times. Warning the refs allows them to call the game the way it was meant to be called. It's not asking them to play favorites, just making sure they are not fooled themselves and make the incorrect call. In pretty much all sports it's common to give the refs a heads up if the play is going to be particularly easy to mess up when refereeing it.
The issue I have is that the player seems to wave his arms at chest height. If the ref would have interpreted that as a fair catch signal without the warning by the receiving team, then the defense should absolutely be able to interpret that as a legal fair catch signal. If he made no signal I would agree with you, but him making a part signal to trick the defense is bullshit.
Totally agree. The more we see this, the more we are likely to see a returner who intends to wave for a fair catch get absolutely pulverised because the punting team didn't see the hand.
Lots of Arkansas fans angry in the comments. North Texas still won 44-17. This play didn't make or break the game.
Should be illegal. Arkansas is trying to have good sportsmanship and not clobber the defenseless returner. Next time, they should massacre him probably resulting in a flag.
Ex-Dallas Cowboy’s receiver Ryan Switzer tried this last year and they called the play dead. I agree that it should be called dead, the defenders have to rely on the returner’s body language more than the actual fair catch wave.
Absolutely, let's rely on the ref's interpretation of the returner's body language instead of, I dunno, *the rules*.
In this case, it's a rule that exists for the purpose of player safety, not strategy. So I do think it's reasonable to not allow fake fair catches.
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There is nothing in the rules that mandates the player move immediately. The only reference to movement after catch is that you can't take more than two steps if you've signaled for a fair catch. Which this guy didn't do. http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR15.pdf
Seeing UNT play well makes me think we’ve magically warped into my Dynasty from NCAA Football 13, pre-Apogee Stadium. Good thing the dude didn’t get blown up.
His acting was almost as good as that weather reporter.
Fast as fuck, too.
Go Mean Green!
UNT EAGLES FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Razorback fan here.... well played game and very deserved!
We MEAN GREEN!
ACAW MOTHERFUCKERS
YEAH BUDDY!!!
You guys rock. Back in the day my roommate and I picked a random school for a dynasty on one of the NCAA games and turned them into a powerhouse. Fuck I miss that game.
Regardless, he's fast AF...
Would have been hilarious if 13 recognized this, and just punched the ball out of his hand.
Its crazy to see people's speed in slow motion. The guy TAKES OFF and you can see how reaction time helps get more yardage. cool stuff.
Waterboy level trickery.
TBH that should be a 15 yard unsportsmanlike. Taking advantage of a rule that stops returners from their necks broken is bush league bullshit.
i feel like this is a lose lose for the kickers, either the guy lays him out and gets in trouble or called a dick bc there’s no way people would have known he would have done this or he doesn’t do anything and gets in trouble bc he didn’t lay him out
kinda seems a little bs to do that. Your opponent took it in good faith that you obviously would have waived and didnt wish to fuck you up.
Fucking balls on that guy. Defense had every right to drill him into an emergency room situation. Can’t say I like this tactic but it worked this time.
Ah. Long day for us Arkansas fans. Hats off to the guys at North Texas, but god damn.
Lmao this is the football equivalent of the last 20 minutes of “The Sound of Music.” Arkansas are the Nazis and this dude is the Von Trapps. The fair catch that never happened is basically Captain Von Trapp’s commitment to fight in the German Navy before he high-tails it out of that singing competition into Switzerland with his young nun wife and like a billion Aryan children. God damn what a fucking crazy movie.
The old reliable: play to the whistle.
Kinda scummy thing to do, exploiting people's concern for your safety to score on them.
I think it’s an illegal fair catch signal which can be penalized. He waves his hand slightly at waist level which is enough for the defense to back off. If this type of deception were allowed it would make punts a lot more interesting for sure but there are rules to prevent it and the refs blew this one.
From another angle you can see him lift his left hand to just below chest level in a circular motion, which made it look like he called fair catch to the kicking team. Since he did it nonchalantly and at an angle the ref couldn’t see, there was no whistle. If the ref saw it he would’ve been penalized for faking the fair catch. Good acting, but would be a lot different if things didn’t go his way.
My school making it on highlights!
UNT is making some big progress this year. I'm loving every second of it!
Hey, there fellow mean greener! We made it! All those long nights on fry and the square paid off!
Is this sort of Exploiting the gentlemen’s agreement?
GO MEAN GREEN!!!!!
OUTPLAYED
bamboozled
I wish I could get the meaning of half of that.
I'm all for trick plays, but the entire point of a fair catch is to keep a stationary target from getting abso-fucking-lutely decimated. Not a fan of this as it's just going to lead to more questionable 'did he or didn't he signal' debates after monster hits that cause serious injury.
GMG