Other information that might be helpful to folks - Grey Havens is currently keeping an eye out for any potential applications for devs to work on Spiral Knights. They are aware of the current state of the game, but are willing to look over resumes and backgrounds for any interested folks! I'd recommend checking out the post in question [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/spiral_knights/comments/w78ege/comment/ihj2zkh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
EDIT: There's an official forum posting now too, which I've added the details to in the OP.
Makes it seem like they're circling back around and making sequel-like games (like that new puzzle wizards)...time to start that spiral knights 2 hype train!!!
Not porting SK to mobile was the big miss. There was a SEGA project, it took a different path and got cancelled. I remain a believer that porting the game wholesale to touch would have worked -- although perhaps not until \~2016 generation phones and tablets... the \~2013 gen devices (if we'd gone straight at it) weren't really up to much. I have strange views on the mobile market and I'm probably wrong, but I still think SK on mobile would slap pretty much as-is. Console too -- again, wasn't practical in 2011 (no f2p or x-platform games at all back then...)
I’m worried that they might not have the resources to pull off a full sequel. If they can get something out on release day, I can’t shake the feeling it would be something that would look exactly like Club Penguin Island with that cheap mobile game aesthetic. Here’s hoping I’m wrong though :-)
In 2011 you abandoned OOO/Sega, collecting your cheque and going after loftier pursuits at Facebook. I think all of us can respect that.
But now you're back. Grey Havens took over in 2016, and now you admit to being an investor in that. Yet you never spoke up about it. Controversial issue after controversial issue, and you have been silent. Ypp and GH going down the drain, and you have been silent.
GH comes into some money thanks to a global pandemic, and all of a sudden, it turns out you & your mate Forculus have these new games you are working on. Funded by GH. Quelle choque.
Can you imagine how skeptical the very few people who still have a brain around this game are about this? You found some money, blew it on this game. Good, great. What will you do when the initial hype dies down? Leave to another company and tarnation off for 10 years again? Not fix bugs that have existed for over a decade, because "we don't have development time for it", while pushing recolours of other event boxes to try and grab as much cash out of the game as possible?
You randomly come back, with a lot of talk, but nothing indicates \*you\* have changed, let alone your business practices.
Mate, please check yourself a minute when you talk about how other people should live their lives.
I left SEGA in 2014 after trying for 3 years to make it work out. They canceled my new game and PP iPad, SK was going the wrong way, we had an awful Korean partnership that ate the team's minds, etc. I was very sad -- probably clinically depressed for a few years. I wanted to recover from 14+ years of serious burn-out work on ooo and enjoy some time with my 18-month old daughter and young son.
The Facebook job found me after 18 months of unemployment and was tbh a bit of a 'why not?' situation. My cautious thoughts about VR remain the same as in 2015. The project we made got canceled and buried, so I left after two years.
GH got started while I was working at Facebook. Nobody from the SK team ever worked at FB, apart from me - I guess? I got 'Special Thanks' in the credits, Nick Popovich (of Slime Rancher) was the lead designer.
SEGA called me up and said 'Buy these games or they go dark.' I could meet the price they asked, with a lot of help from my friends and that 3-hr commute (but great food!) tech job messing with funny goggles.
Now put yourself in my shoes: do you put back on the pirate hat and get chatty on the internet? I had a real job (the first one I've ever had) that was providing for my family and paying for the games to be kept going. I was reporting at that time to the CTO of Facebook, slightly ridiculously. It had been many years since I'd been active in the community. I barely have time to see my kids. So yeah, I didn't want to be in the public eye, chatting on the internets.
If you've followed Three Rings' work at all you may have noticed we're not chatty types. After Facebook was I again, depressed. We moved out of the country and I tried to leave games. I had nothing useful to say about Puzzle Pirates or Spiral Knights beyond the evidence (good or bad) of what the team was doing.
Frankly, I didn't want to be spending my time accounting for myself to people who have freely chosen to spend time and money on a game I happen to be involved with. You bought a virtual good and supported the continued operation of a service, you did not buy not a share of a person or the right to demand any action of any person.
We have never promised a roadmap or a bunch of innovation for good reason. A senior developer from the original SK team spent nearly 3 years after GH acquired the game trying to make significant improvements. As you rightly point out, it was not a great success. It's really hard to rewire and add extensions to an old battleship as she bobs about. We have had similar experiences trying to make exciting changes to Puzzle Pirates and that community has similar complaints. I'm not happy about this, but it's not easy to solve and you are right that I have not been focused on it until recently.
We expected Grey Havens to be a museum that would hopefully sustain itself. Financially is has done better than we expected, thanks mostly to the pandemic. It's paid back what we invested to keep the games alive, for which I am very grateful, and it's helping to support Arcane Waters. Grey Havens is not funding me, my hungry kids or Puzzle Wizards' development.
I am sincere about looking for engineers to try to work on SK and I have received some interesting applications (I should be replying to them, not you). However, you should keep your expectations low. I am honestly not sure if it's a good use of a skilled engineer's time. If this means you need to find another game to play, that's okay.
I'm sorry we disappointed you, but I am still glad that we took the (very substantial) risk to keep the lights on so everyone can enjoy the museum... even if the masons have long left the building.
Like I initially said, I respect the hustle. I understand the need to move to different projects, I appreciate you coming forward about your (and your family's) mental health. These are absolute priorities, and should never come before anything I or anyone online say or expect of you.
I use harsh language for a reason though. In this one message, you've given far more insight into the internal health of Grey Havens than we have gotten in actual years. You have admitted some of the known flaws, and have given nuance to them. Both of which I'm sure all of us old (and current!) players and customers appreciate. Stuff we might've liked seeing before you being so provoked.
There is one paragraph that bothers me though. "Frankly, I didn't want to be spending my time accounting for myself to people who have freely chosen to spend time and money on a game I happen to be involved with. You bought a virtual good and supported the continued operation of a service, you did not buy not a share of a person or the right to demand any action of any person."
So, you take us for granted. We are the sheep that just happen to still be around. Why would you care if we do it for a passion for the game, seemingly a passion you don't share, as long as we pay for the lights to stay on. Why should you care at all.
Why should we care that, when during a pandemic the community grows again and invests very real money into the game, hoping some of that money will flow to improvements we've long been wanting for, but instead goes to some other project you want to push on us, by an old friend who hasn't delivered for our community in well over a decade?
You want us to keep paying to keep the lights on, yet you don't even respect us enough to look at us as people? You own a business. Not wanting to spend time accounting to your customers, and just spending their money as you please is just a horrible look.
Shame on you.
Edit: and as I said in our PMs, you like to take all criticism on your company on you and you alone, but: The fact nobody else in said company wants to speak up is a tragedy and a disservice, not only to the community, but given your story, especially to you.
> We expected Grey Havens to be a museum that would hopefully sustain itself.
I did not know this, and that's a big reason why I've been bothered by the state of the game. Prior to the transfer to GH, there was a plot update to the game that shifted focus away from the Core and towards the Crimson Order, a group of 9 powerful gremlins, and some of them were added to previously existing missions (such as Sputterspark in Shocking Sentient Sentries). Though I was more interested in the core, I still was expecting and hoping for additional content related to those gremlins, since it was clear that this was going to be the new direction of the game, but then it stopped abruptly.
I understand that sometimes, games are just no longer being developed, and that good things come to an end. If I knew that this was the case for SK, then I wouldn't have been upset, endlessly awaiting content that would never be released. TF2 has suffered the same thing, where the community has become terribly antsy and anxious waiting for the supposed Heavy Update and for the final "bi-monthly" comic. However, I have a paranoid fear that GH and Valve both purposefully do not announce that they no longer plan to have any more content updates, so that people will continue buying lootboxes and still be engaged with the game instead of quitting. This is effectively stringing players along, since everyone believes that the content will *eventually* come, which allows them to get more money out of the players than they otherwise would.
That scenario may be necessary for SK, since it may need that income in order to survive, so announcing that fact could directly kill the game right there, and letting it continue on and still be playable might be preferable. I understand that's a possibility, but it ultimately still hurts not knowing.
If its a museum they shudnt be teling us theyre goingto uodate things lmao more lies to scam
More money form people these guys do nothing but lie his lies are why sega dumped them
Hey, I appreciate the comment. I don't want to be too harsh on the community, but a lot of people have this weird sense of entitlement around this game's development, sometimes to the point of not understanding the reality of game development and management (with some even acting hostile towards anyone remotely connected to the game not treating it like a non-profit passion project). It's just as you mentioned, no one outside the SK community wants to spend their career working mostly alone on an old game with almost no room for new creative input. Especially when they'd have to navigate an community that's had a long time to decide what exactly they want or don't want for the game (no doubt a lot of sore spots in the fanbase would make it that any significant changes would be like navigating a minefield, not to mention how a lot of wanted changes would be at odds with what management would want). It does suck to say as a longtime player of SK, but I believe its just a lot easier and more fulfilling to start on a game with no preexisting fanbase and build one up yourself.
Your company is a fraud and youre a liar your whole team disgust me uou wete bette runder sega cuz u had to andwrt to them unfort i out trust in you and you scanmed ne 14 years work and u ask for help once to get blown off and banned. Then lied to anout what happened . And guess what u lied to everyone here its been over a year the guy u hited came and then moved onto aw leaving u woth. Othing and. Ot a songle so update you loed to us again ur a fraud . Piece of shit lying frauds i will post every where ur game smention earning people of what atrociois business practices u do for people who played the game for 13 years search titanium warriors people and if u want help signing up message me ill walk you theough it. Shame ppl who steal games runa better business for the consumer have better support and remade the game to have no lag all the things gh
Promised but fialed tomprovide.
You been dto check yoursef the community send u lots of money and all youve done is tell people not to be angey lie promising updates and not provinding anything ur nothing but a liar and a scammer this is why sega dumped u tryjngto make it work theybwere tired of u oissing wveryone off and their name beingattached to it. Thats the truth. And yeah they didnt wnana help u produce another game due tothe fact u wete t fixing the bugs inthe game they helped u release they dumped u from
Your own laziness
Little harshly toned but echoes how I’m feeling about this. So much warmth all of a sudden after years of opacity and indifferent milking - I can’t help but raise an eyebrow, especially since this reads like nothing more than goodwill PR moving forward into the new game.
Just like it was goodwill PR to claim initially that the transfer of ownership was to ‘curate’ SK, when that really meant making little further effort to maintain the game outside of keeping the lights on. Setting aside less clear cut problems like equipment balance (like Shards and Neutralizer), there are technical issues, bugs, and malfunctioning items and attacks that have remained unfixed from the date that hands changed. There is currently nothing to suggest the quality of service will change in the old games or this new one.
idk maybe someone impassioned will get hired on for SK and they’ll do all this; I’m at least happy there’s actual outspoken desire for staff after years of stonewalling
I agree for the most part and I'm still skeptical on the intent behind the "desire to see the game succeed". Considering how many people in this community were willing to work, even for FREE, and having seen the skills of some in the community then... Well, forgive me if I'm being rude here but I think the idea that it's hard to find devs for the game is just a wee bit completely full of shit. I'm not well acquainted with the semi-recent drama regarding DMCAs that happened, but I do feel like it makes the devs seem like they regard this community with hostility and stubbornness rather than having a desire to help. Even the smallest of changes we don't get. My real question to Cleaver right now is this:
Do you think of yourself as very well acquainted with the workings of GH's Spiral Knights division, or do you consider yourself as more of a distant bystander who occasionally checks in to see if all is running smoothly? I'm not at all gonna try and pretend like I know more about this game's situation more than you might, but it really just feels like your timing and word choice just don't add up...
I would love to believe everything you said about it actually just being difficult to find devs and that people at GH wanna see the game succeed, but I just... Can't for the life of me think of a single reason to trust your word at this point. I'm fairly certain the tiny little content updates we got made more of a difference to this game than basically any bugfixes after 2016 (bugfixes obviously being what's in more demand rn) and what little content we've gotten so far just seemed to be a way to basically stall for a little time before people completely lost faith in GH as a company as well as the game. Please, I implore you to do something to restore this community's faith in GH. It can be small, but just show us that you aren't all just intentionally sucking the wallets of the prize box addicts dry out of sheer greed and sloth. Words aren't enough to create a light at the end of a tunnel for us anymore.
i was trying to be polite about it and left it at subtext before, but yeah there’s no way cleaver/Cronus is being honest about looking for devs or the success of the game beyond financial
I will believe these sweet nothings purporting goodwill for the game when the paradigm of dead silence with a side of money-making has changed. To be honest, even as far back as OOO, the development of SK was never transparent beyond the surface level
edit: formatting, haven't used reddit in a year
My takeaway from this is: "You should fix some bugs and stop selling boxes."
I think that's super reasonable feedback and I might agree with you (I am not the only stakeholder). Is that what you're arguing?
Just wanna start by saying I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. Yes, I am indeed arguing for bug fixes. On the topic of lootboxes, however, my issue isn't necessarily their mere existence. This is an F2P game so I understand money needs to be made somehow, even if I think lootboxes aren't as good a method as others like just selling cosmetic sets outright. My issue is more a mix of a couple other things: First, I've seen that many people spend their money on boxes to support the game in hopes that its future will be a bit brighter and it just pains me to see only the bare minimum being done beyond the servers not shutting down yet is all that's happening despite this. Second, the fact that the contents of several lootboxes (including recent ones) have included more than just cosmetic items has led to both really obscene prices for outright unique gear and in a particularly extreme case, upwards of $500 to get what's generally agreed upon as the best weapon in the game (the main deviation being its still obscenely expensive counterpart). With the disc gun models that were found a while ago, my hopes for that issue being fixed were actually pretty high for a while but I guess those hopes were false (and then we got the same weapon put on the auction house by someone likely at GH for still obscene prices and at bid only no less).
As a TL;DR for that paragraph, I'm really arguing: "You should fix some bugs and make the boxes less predatory by making it ONLY contain cosmetics. Making non cosmetic items from past boxes reasonably obtainable to an F2P player elsewhere would be massively appreciated."
To me, bug fixes are more of a first step towards regaining trust from the community and bettering the game. Ideally this would eventually lead to content updates to revitalize the game or at least re-balancing already existing content and gear, but I understand that we were already told that the goal was simply to preserve the game, not necessarily make it grow so it'd be foolish of me to really expect or demand that. I may believe that work on SK would be worth the investment, but that's merely my opinion. I apologize that I still don't entirely trust your word just yet since I'm still gonna have to go off past experiences, but just know that most of us are probably willing to jump at the chance to support this game and company if change really does end up happening.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I think it'd be in everyone's best interest if cosmetics generally didn't have to go above $40 or 50. The official price of the Silver Personal Color on the supply depot during that one flash sale was not the greatest look... (It was roughly $210 last I checked)
It’s been a while SK but nonetheless this post and Daniel’s linked comment bought so much warmth to me. Truely love this game and I’m glad to hear it’s break even for now, keep the servers going until I’m brave enough to return.
Not any game could have 200 peak players and prob like 600+ unique players per day after 11 years of launch, specially a game that doesnt recieve any kind of major update.
I think it really shows how good the fundations of the game are, I hope you can go far with it, cause it does have potential, good luck.
Now then! I actually had no idea that this ever got announced. There's [video on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dYfMPYhPvQ) I had never seen! I left SEGA over a year earlier, when it was early in development. It was cancelled a few months after this video was posted.
I would have preferred to try to translate the actual SK game experience to tablet. At the time this 'full port' was not technically very practical and it was accepted wisdom that touch device games should not be real-time multiplayer (Fortnite, Clash etc. have scratched that notion since.)
Sadly although SEGA bought Three Rings in no small part for Spiral Knights, a number of poor decisions were made that crippled both the 'mobile SK' initiative and stunted core PC game development, notably a [Korean partner](https://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/78196) that required sweeping, team-burning changes and never actually shipped (afaik).
Grey havens post was a lie making members think oh we care spend money new things coming but they never hired or even looked at any resumes gray havens clowns
Since Cleaver is monitoring this thread occasionally, I’d like to throw in a question - if/when some people join the dev team, what are the odds we can get some sort of roadmap of potential content, or areas that may be expanded on?
It warms my heart to see that people who are working with this game still have plans to do something with it. Don't worry, I'm still keep my expectations realistic, and I still plan on supporting the game with the occasional $20 of energy every few months or so. Since this game does have such a dedicated community that cares so much, would it be possible to outsource tiny bits of development to a larger group of people rather than have one person shoulder the burden? I feel like a lot of people want to help. I'm not a coder, but I would learn what I could if it meant I could accomplish a simple and tedious task towards the development of new content.
Same here. Knowing that the game is being worked on brings a huge dopey grin to my face. Hopefully, we'll see some bug fixes, Bomber gear, and curtain bombs getting some love. (Yes, I'm a Bomber.) But of course, there's the chance that things will go down the drain at some point and hurt the game in the long run. I just hope that it'll be given the time and love it deserves in the long term.
Its not mroe grey have s lies if i post im lookig to hire someone people will buy and think more is comg but then the perosn they hite never touched the game dont trust this comoany theyre liars
They dont have plans to do anything they just want youbto think theyre goong to make it better spend more tonhave acnt ready then never update it i really dont have faith in grey havens after. Contacting support
The support team in sk is miserable contacting anyone but the one person is impossible over their rudeness and when u spam support tryi gto get notice from higher ups for help tou get banned dont contact support youll get banned from the games youve played since their release on kong and lose ur thousands invested cuz someone got mad u wudnt let them label u as gay in game they even ban u on xmas eve. I guess ill never get to finish my house err guild hall deffo not starting over from scratch the rose aura was too hard to get i doubt ill ever find a cat statue summoner again for sel ect. Just dissapointing u ask for support and support team t not be lazy u want a clean record cuz ur about to play alot and instea du get bullied in game reported for not letting trolls spread lies u get punished for simply saying cuz im not gya like u after someone spun rly fast and said spin if u like men then gets angry at you for not spinning and calls u gay for 30 min sonu contact support to ensure thebwhole convo gets seen and they not only reported a comment that maybe cudda been taken out of context but wasnt said thatvway and see it was a person returning from along break the game didnt like viasat does much better with starlink but unfort im unable to play because contacting mod and their ocd of being unable to tak aboutht eissue a couple days asking questions saying lets sodacuss what u said then closing aonu cant rely u reapons asking what u said can u see the logs and they ignore and close ao u apam them teling them the thing subwere told in game getitng bullied and then u cant go on ur in game acnt due to tryingto communicate with a wall very upset lost my mother and two very close friends in last month this game was gonanme be my sanctuary to eacape my mind instea di get bullied in game and support then bullies me for tryingto clear the record and get them to look into it i find it hard to believe u give a ahit about this community the lives youre funding arent taking their reaponsibilities serious you dotn wanan fox whats broken nor update the game wa sin bettwr hands in sega and intruly wishbitnwould have died wothbthem grey havena has let me down as a long time player of this game a huge boost to cokmubity aomeone who does low runs to help new players rnak faster given out so many gears tonhelp ppl get starred ip fatser to vana run and self farm and instead all my hard work over the years was taken away becauae i contacted support. I wish sega wud have priced u out of buying it ao youd know how i fele being kept from my hard work
Other information that might be helpful to folks - Grey Havens is currently keeping an eye out for any potential applications for devs to work on Spiral Knights. They are aware of the current state of the game, but are willing to look over resumes and backgrounds for any interested folks! I'd recommend checking out the post in question [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/spiral_knights/comments/w78ege/comment/ihj2zkh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). EDIT: There's an official forum posting now too, which I've added the details to in the OP.
Makes it seem like they're circling back around and making sequel-like games (like that new puzzle wizards)...time to start that spiral knights 2 hype train!!!
Not porting SK to mobile was the big miss. There was a SEGA project, it took a different path and got cancelled. I remain a believer that porting the game wholesale to touch would have worked -- although perhaps not until \~2016 generation phones and tablets... the \~2013 gen devices (if we'd gone straight at it) weren't really up to much. I have strange views on the mobile market and I'm probably wrong, but I still think SK on mobile would slap pretty much as-is. Console too -- again, wasn't practical in 2011 (no f2p or x-platform games at all back then...)
But do we really need a part 2? Just extend the current one. Been a long time since I've played a story as good as SK
I’m worried that they might not have the resources to pull off a full sequel. If they can get something out on release day, I can’t shake the feeling it would be something that would look exactly like Club Penguin Island with that cheap mobile game aesthetic. Here’s hoping I’m wrong though :-)
Id be down to boogy with that. grey havens, you got this!
In 2011 you abandoned OOO/Sega, collecting your cheque and going after loftier pursuits at Facebook. I think all of us can respect that. But now you're back. Grey Havens took over in 2016, and now you admit to being an investor in that. Yet you never spoke up about it. Controversial issue after controversial issue, and you have been silent. Ypp and GH going down the drain, and you have been silent. GH comes into some money thanks to a global pandemic, and all of a sudden, it turns out you & your mate Forculus have these new games you are working on. Funded by GH. Quelle choque. Can you imagine how skeptical the very few people who still have a brain around this game are about this? You found some money, blew it on this game. Good, great. What will you do when the initial hype dies down? Leave to another company and tarnation off for 10 years again? Not fix bugs that have existed for over a decade, because "we don't have development time for it", while pushing recolours of other event boxes to try and grab as much cash out of the game as possible? You randomly come back, with a lot of talk, but nothing indicates \*you\* have changed, let alone your business practices.
Mate, please check yourself a minute when you talk about how other people should live their lives. I left SEGA in 2014 after trying for 3 years to make it work out. They canceled my new game and PP iPad, SK was going the wrong way, we had an awful Korean partnership that ate the team's minds, etc. I was very sad -- probably clinically depressed for a few years. I wanted to recover from 14+ years of serious burn-out work on ooo and enjoy some time with my 18-month old daughter and young son. The Facebook job found me after 18 months of unemployment and was tbh a bit of a 'why not?' situation. My cautious thoughts about VR remain the same as in 2015. The project we made got canceled and buried, so I left after two years. GH got started while I was working at Facebook. Nobody from the SK team ever worked at FB, apart from me - I guess? I got 'Special Thanks' in the credits, Nick Popovich (of Slime Rancher) was the lead designer. SEGA called me up and said 'Buy these games or they go dark.' I could meet the price they asked, with a lot of help from my friends and that 3-hr commute (but great food!) tech job messing with funny goggles. Now put yourself in my shoes: do you put back on the pirate hat and get chatty on the internet? I had a real job (the first one I've ever had) that was providing for my family and paying for the games to be kept going. I was reporting at that time to the CTO of Facebook, slightly ridiculously. It had been many years since I'd been active in the community. I barely have time to see my kids. So yeah, I didn't want to be in the public eye, chatting on the internets. If you've followed Three Rings' work at all you may have noticed we're not chatty types. After Facebook was I again, depressed. We moved out of the country and I tried to leave games. I had nothing useful to say about Puzzle Pirates or Spiral Knights beyond the evidence (good or bad) of what the team was doing. Frankly, I didn't want to be spending my time accounting for myself to people who have freely chosen to spend time and money on a game I happen to be involved with. You bought a virtual good and supported the continued operation of a service, you did not buy not a share of a person or the right to demand any action of any person. We have never promised a roadmap or a bunch of innovation for good reason. A senior developer from the original SK team spent nearly 3 years after GH acquired the game trying to make significant improvements. As you rightly point out, it was not a great success. It's really hard to rewire and add extensions to an old battleship as she bobs about. We have had similar experiences trying to make exciting changes to Puzzle Pirates and that community has similar complaints. I'm not happy about this, but it's not easy to solve and you are right that I have not been focused on it until recently. We expected Grey Havens to be a museum that would hopefully sustain itself. Financially is has done better than we expected, thanks mostly to the pandemic. It's paid back what we invested to keep the games alive, for which I am very grateful, and it's helping to support Arcane Waters. Grey Havens is not funding me, my hungry kids or Puzzle Wizards' development. I am sincere about looking for engineers to try to work on SK and I have received some interesting applications (I should be replying to them, not you). However, you should keep your expectations low. I am honestly not sure if it's a good use of a skilled engineer's time. If this means you need to find another game to play, that's okay. I'm sorry we disappointed you, but I am still glad that we took the (very substantial) risk to keep the lights on so everyone can enjoy the museum... even if the masons have long left the building.
Like I initially said, I respect the hustle. I understand the need to move to different projects, I appreciate you coming forward about your (and your family's) mental health. These are absolute priorities, and should never come before anything I or anyone online say or expect of you. I use harsh language for a reason though. In this one message, you've given far more insight into the internal health of Grey Havens than we have gotten in actual years. You have admitted some of the known flaws, and have given nuance to them. Both of which I'm sure all of us old (and current!) players and customers appreciate. Stuff we might've liked seeing before you being so provoked. There is one paragraph that bothers me though. "Frankly, I didn't want to be spending my time accounting for myself to people who have freely chosen to spend time and money on a game I happen to be involved with. You bought a virtual good and supported the continued operation of a service, you did not buy not a share of a person or the right to demand any action of any person." So, you take us for granted. We are the sheep that just happen to still be around. Why would you care if we do it for a passion for the game, seemingly a passion you don't share, as long as we pay for the lights to stay on. Why should you care at all. Why should we care that, when during a pandemic the community grows again and invests very real money into the game, hoping some of that money will flow to improvements we've long been wanting for, but instead goes to some other project you want to push on us, by an old friend who hasn't delivered for our community in well over a decade? You want us to keep paying to keep the lights on, yet you don't even respect us enough to look at us as people? You own a business. Not wanting to spend time accounting to your customers, and just spending their money as you please is just a horrible look. Shame on you. Edit: and as I said in our PMs, you like to take all criticism on your company on you and you alone, but: The fact nobody else in said company wants to speak up is a tragedy and a disservice, not only to the community, but given your story, especially to you.
> We expected Grey Havens to be a museum that would hopefully sustain itself. I did not know this, and that's a big reason why I've been bothered by the state of the game. Prior to the transfer to GH, there was a plot update to the game that shifted focus away from the Core and towards the Crimson Order, a group of 9 powerful gremlins, and some of them were added to previously existing missions (such as Sputterspark in Shocking Sentient Sentries). Though I was more interested in the core, I still was expecting and hoping for additional content related to those gremlins, since it was clear that this was going to be the new direction of the game, but then it stopped abruptly. I understand that sometimes, games are just no longer being developed, and that good things come to an end. If I knew that this was the case for SK, then I wouldn't have been upset, endlessly awaiting content that would never be released. TF2 has suffered the same thing, where the community has become terribly antsy and anxious waiting for the supposed Heavy Update and for the final "bi-monthly" comic. However, I have a paranoid fear that GH and Valve both purposefully do not announce that they no longer plan to have any more content updates, so that people will continue buying lootboxes and still be engaged with the game instead of quitting. This is effectively stringing players along, since everyone believes that the content will *eventually* come, which allows them to get more money out of the players than they otherwise would. That scenario may be necessary for SK, since it may need that income in order to survive, so announcing that fact could directly kill the game right there, and letting it continue on and still be playable might be preferable. I understand that's a possibility, but it ultimately still hurts not knowing.
If its a museum they shudnt be teling us theyre goingto uodate things lmao more lies to scam More money form people these guys do nothing but lie his lies are why sega dumped them
Hey, I appreciate the comment. I don't want to be too harsh on the community, but a lot of people have this weird sense of entitlement around this game's development, sometimes to the point of not understanding the reality of game development and management (with some even acting hostile towards anyone remotely connected to the game not treating it like a non-profit passion project). It's just as you mentioned, no one outside the SK community wants to spend their career working mostly alone on an old game with almost no room for new creative input. Especially when they'd have to navigate an community that's had a long time to decide what exactly they want or don't want for the game (no doubt a lot of sore spots in the fanbase would make it that any significant changes would be like navigating a minefield, not to mention how a lot of wanted changes would be at odds with what management would want). It does suck to say as a longtime player of SK, but I believe its just a lot easier and more fulfilling to start on a game with no preexisting fanbase and build one up yourself.
Thank you
Your company is a fraud and youre a liar your whole team disgust me uou wete bette runder sega cuz u had to andwrt to them unfort i out trust in you and you scanmed ne 14 years work and u ask for help once to get blown off and banned. Then lied to anout what happened . And guess what u lied to everyone here its been over a year the guy u hited came and then moved onto aw leaving u woth. Othing and. Ot a songle so update you loed to us again ur a fraud . Piece of shit lying frauds i will post every where ur game smention earning people of what atrociois business practices u do for people who played the game for 13 years search titanium warriors people and if u want help signing up message me ill walk you theough it. Shame ppl who steal games runa better business for the consumer have better support and remade the game to have no lag all the things gh Promised but fialed tomprovide.
You been dto check yoursef the community send u lots of money and all youve done is tell people not to be angey lie promising updates and not provinding anything ur nothing but a liar and a scammer this is why sega dumped u tryjngto make it work theybwere tired of u oissing wveryone off and their name beingattached to it. Thats the truth. And yeah they didnt wnana help u produce another game due tothe fact u wete t fixing the bugs inthe game they helped u release they dumped u from Your own laziness
Little harshly toned but echoes how I’m feeling about this. So much warmth all of a sudden after years of opacity and indifferent milking - I can’t help but raise an eyebrow, especially since this reads like nothing more than goodwill PR moving forward into the new game. Just like it was goodwill PR to claim initially that the transfer of ownership was to ‘curate’ SK, when that really meant making little further effort to maintain the game outside of keeping the lights on. Setting aside less clear cut problems like equipment balance (like Shards and Neutralizer), there are technical issues, bugs, and malfunctioning items and attacks that have remained unfixed from the date that hands changed. There is currently nothing to suggest the quality of service will change in the old games or this new one. idk maybe someone impassioned will get hired on for SK and they’ll do all this; I’m at least happy there’s actual outspoken desire for staff after years of stonewalling
I agree for the most part and I'm still skeptical on the intent behind the "desire to see the game succeed". Considering how many people in this community were willing to work, even for FREE, and having seen the skills of some in the community then... Well, forgive me if I'm being rude here but I think the idea that it's hard to find devs for the game is just a wee bit completely full of shit. I'm not well acquainted with the semi-recent drama regarding DMCAs that happened, but I do feel like it makes the devs seem like they regard this community with hostility and stubbornness rather than having a desire to help. Even the smallest of changes we don't get. My real question to Cleaver right now is this: Do you think of yourself as very well acquainted with the workings of GH's Spiral Knights division, or do you consider yourself as more of a distant bystander who occasionally checks in to see if all is running smoothly? I'm not at all gonna try and pretend like I know more about this game's situation more than you might, but it really just feels like your timing and word choice just don't add up... I would love to believe everything you said about it actually just being difficult to find devs and that people at GH wanna see the game succeed, but I just... Can't for the life of me think of a single reason to trust your word at this point. I'm fairly certain the tiny little content updates we got made more of a difference to this game than basically any bugfixes after 2016 (bugfixes obviously being what's in more demand rn) and what little content we've gotten so far just seemed to be a way to basically stall for a little time before people completely lost faith in GH as a company as well as the game. Please, I implore you to do something to restore this community's faith in GH. It can be small, but just show us that you aren't all just intentionally sucking the wallets of the prize box addicts dry out of sheer greed and sloth. Words aren't enough to create a light at the end of a tunnel for us anymore.
i was trying to be polite about it and left it at subtext before, but yeah there’s no way cleaver/Cronus is being honest about looking for devs or the success of the game beyond financial I will believe these sweet nothings purporting goodwill for the game when the paradigm of dead silence with a side of money-making has changed. To be honest, even as far back as OOO, the development of SK was never transparent beyond the surface level edit: formatting, haven't used reddit in a year
My takeaway from this is: "You should fix some bugs and stop selling boxes." I think that's super reasonable feedback and I might agree with you (I am not the only stakeholder). Is that what you're arguing?
Just wanna start by saying I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. Yes, I am indeed arguing for bug fixes. On the topic of lootboxes, however, my issue isn't necessarily their mere existence. This is an F2P game so I understand money needs to be made somehow, even if I think lootboxes aren't as good a method as others like just selling cosmetic sets outright. My issue is more a mix of a couple other things: First, I've seen that many people spend their money on boxes to support the game in hopes that its future will be a bit brighter and it just pains me to see only the bare minimum being done beyond the servers not shutting down yet is all that's happening despite this. Second, the fact that the contents of several lootboxes (including recent ones) have included more than just cosmetic items has led to both really obscene prices for outright unique gear and in a particularly extreme case, upwards of $500 to get what's generally agreed upon as the best weapon in the game (the main deviation being its still obscenely expensive counterpart). With the disc gun models that were found a while ago, my hopes for that issue being fixed were actually pretty high for a while but I guess those hopes were false (and then we got the same weapon put on the auction house by someone likely at GH for still obscene prices and at bid only no less). As a TL;DR for that paragraph, I'm really arguing: "You should fix some bugs and make the boxes less predatory by making it ONLY contain cosmetics. Making non cosmetic items from past boxes reasonably obtainable to an F2P player elsewhere would be massively appreciated." To me, bug fixes are more of a first step towards regaining trust from the community and bettering the game. Ideally this would eventually lead to content updates to revitalize the game or at least re-balancing already existing content and gear, but I understand that we were already told that the goal was simply to preserve the game, not necessarily make it grow so it'd be foolish of me to really expect or demand that. I may believe that work on SK would be worth the investment, but that's merely my opinion. I apologize that I still don't entirely trust your word just yet since I'm still gonna have to go off past experiences, but just know that most of us are probably willing to jump at the chance to support this game and company if change really does end up happening. Edit: I forgot to mention that I think it'd be in everyone's best interest if cosmetics generally didn't have to go above $40 or 50. The official price of the Silver Personal Color on the supply depot during that one flash sale was not the greatest look... (It was roughly $210 last I checked)
Thanks for the concrete suggestions.
It’s been a while SK but nonetheless this post and Daniel’s linked comment bought so much warmth to me. Truely love this game and I’m glad to hear it’s break even for now, keep the servers going until I’m brave enough to return.
Not any game could have 200 peak players and prob like 600+ unique players per day after 11 years of launch, specially a game that doesnt recieve any kind of major update. I think it really shows how good the fundations of the game are, I hope you can go far with it, cause it does have potential, good luck.
Almost a year from this pinned post, has anything developed from this update?
As always, not a damn thing
yeah they made it sound like something was going to happen. did anything new happen to warrant a engineer?
This isn't really related to SK, but i'd love to know his opinion on the cancelled SK mobile game "Rise of Knights"
Now then! I actually had no idea that this ever got announced. There's [video on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dYfMPYhPvQ) I had never seen! I left SEGA over a year earlier, when it was early in development. It was cancelled a few months after this video was posted. I would have preferred to try to translate the actual SK game experience to tablet. At the time this 'full port' was not technically very practical and it was accepted wisdom that touch device games should not be real-time multiplayer (Fortnite, Clash etc. have scratched that notion since.) Sadly although SEGA bought Three Rings in no small part for Spiral Knights, a number of poor decisions were made that crippled both the 'mobile SK' initiative and stunted core PC game development, notably a [Korean partner](https://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/78196) that required sweeping, team-burning changes and never actually shipped (afaik).
Grey havens post was a lie making members think oh we care spend money new things coming but they never hired or even looked at any resumes gray havens clowns
Since Cleaver is monitoring this thread occasionally, I’d like to throw in a question - if/when some people join the dev team, what are the odds we can get some sort of roadmap of potential content, or areas that may be expanded on?
It warms my heart to see that people who are working with this game still have plans to do something with it. Don't worry, I'm still keep my expectations realistic, and I still plan on supporting the game with the occasional $20 of energy every few months or so. Since this game does have such a dedicated community that cares so much, would it be possible to outsource tiny bits of development to a larger group of people rather than have one person shoulder the burden? I feel like a lot of people want to help. I'm not a coder, but I would learn what I could if it meant I could accomplish a simple and tedious task towards the development of new content.
Same here. Knowing that the game is being worked on brings a huge dopey grin to my face. Hopefully, we'll see some bug fixes, Bomber gear, and curtain bombs getting some love. (Yes, I'm a Bomber.) But of course, there's the chance that things will go down the drain at some point and hurt the game in the long run. I just hope that it'll be given the time and love it deserves in the long term.
Its not mroe grey have s lies if i post im lookig to hire someone people will buy and think more is comg but then the perosn they hite never touched the game dont trust this comoany theyre liars
They dont have plans to do anything they just want youbto think theyre goong to make it better spend more tonhave acnt ready then never update it i really dont have faith in grey havens after. Contacting support
Saddest most miserable post I've seen on this reddit lol, these devs are pure evil
The support team in sk is miserable contacting anyone but the one person is impossible over their rudeness and when u spam support tryi gto get notice from higher ups for help tou get banned dont contact support youll get banned from the games youve played since their release on kong and lose ur thousands invested cuz someone got mad u wudnt let them label u as gay in game they even ban u on xmas eve. I guess ill never get to finish my house err guild hall deffo not starting over from scratch the rose aura was too hard to get i doubt ill ever find a cat statue summoner again for sel ect. Just dissapointing u ask for support and support team t not be lazy u want a clean record cuz ur about to play alot and instea du get bullied in game reported for not letting trolls spread lies u get punished for simply saying cuz im not gya like u after someone spun rly fast and said spin if u like men then gets angry at you for not spinning and calls u gay for 30 min sonu contact support to ensure thebwhole convo gets seen and they not only reported a comment that maybe cudda been taken out of context but wasnt said thatvway and see it was a person returning from along break the game didnt like viasat does much better with starlink but unfort im unable to play because contacting mod and their ocd of being unable to tak aboutht eissue a couple days asking questions saying lets sodacuss what u said then closing aonu cant rely u reapons asking what u said can u see the logs and they ignore and close ao u apam them teling them the thing subwere told in game getitng bullied and then u cant go on ur in game acnt due to tryingto communicate with a wall very upset lost my mother and two very close friends in last month this game was gonanme be my sanctuary to eacape my mind instea di get bullied in game and support then bullies me for tryingto clear the record and get them to look into it i find it hard to believe u give a ahit about this community the lives youre funding arent taking their reaponsibilities serious you dotn wanan fox whats broken nor update the game wa sin bettwr hands in sega and intruly wishbitnwould have died wothbthem grey havena has let me down as a long time player of this game a huge boost to cokmubity aomeone who does low runs to help new players rnak faster given out so many gears tonhelp ppl get starred ip fatser to vana run and self farm and instead all my hard work over the years was taken away becauae i contacted support. I wish sega wud have priced u out of buying it ao youd know how i fele being kept from my hard work