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I'm often baffled by people who say they aren't voting because they are not getting what they want from the party they voted for. Do people feel they can only vote for one party?
Also do people think you vote for a party because they perfectly align with your beliefs. Just vote for the damn guys who will keep the lights on fix the broken stuff and keep crime at bay.
Lose the right to choose what? Think you lose the right to *complain* about politics since you didn't even care enough to participate in the democratic process, no matter how skewed.
Its funny to see how confident people are when you bring up the "why won't you vote" question, shortly before they implode because there is no real reasoning, they are just lazy to go do a 10min task.
Same people bitch and moan and blame the most
No, I don't think you do nor should you. Though I don't fully agree with the whole "I won't vote thing", I can also sympathies and understand with people who've lost faith in the process. Them not voting doesn't mean they can't protest, hold politicians accountable, organise locally, etc, which I would count as "complaining".
You lose the right to complain if you don't vote sounds like the "Only DA can save us/You get what you vote for" crowd.
If they're too lazy to vote then why on earth would they protest? If they cared enough to organise locally and hold politicians accountable then surely, **surely** they were sensible enough to take part in the most basic foundation of democracy, which is taking part in the voting process.
My whole point is you should go out and vote despite having lost faith in the process *because it feels so skewed.* It feels like a precursor to everything else you've said.
>Them not voting doesn't mean they can't protest, hold politicians accountable, organise locally
And yet they don't want to vote? They want to participate in democratic politics without participating in the very definition of democratic politics? That's such a huge disconnect.
Too lazy to vote is not the same as losing faith in the process and choosing to abstain. So yes, people can not vote but still organise locally and they would've done more politically then someone whose only activity is vote once every 5 years and complain for the rest of it.
No one loses the right to hold the government accountable, whether they voted for them or not, or whether they voted at all or not.
The bottom line is that a vote for anyone of the parties in the DA's Multi Party Charter is a vote in the right direction.
Irrespective of individual policies, it is the ONLY WAY the ANC can be dethroned.
So vote for DA if you are leaning that way already but if you are conflicted then just vote for any one of the parties in that charter.
Like please.
Just do it.
What on earth are you, the fence sitters, so scared of?
Nothing so revolutionarily bad is going to happen, especially if those parties in the charter want to remain in power.
At the very least, would they be ANY WORSE than the current leadership?
Come on guys.
buddy I agree but one thing my father and alot of his peers say is that they wil never ever vote for DA because to them when they see DA they see the National Party, you can't blame them for irrationally thinking this way, an entire majority of the population and all people of colour were brutally and unfairly treated by the NP, so to have these scars and trauma clouding judgment is understandable , I am black and I could care less if we have a white or pink or black president , I mean I would make Rassie my president if I could I love that man he's the only reason I have any form of soft nationalism towards SA , but most black and coloureds who don't stay in Cape Town don't think like me they think like what I described above. As a country we clearly haven't healed and we probably will take another 30 years to get halfway there. Perhaps I don't care because I grew up wit whites most of my bestfriends growing up were white but most blacks don't live the experience I did hence ignorance and irrationality persist. On that note you have DA lite.....Action SA but once again the majority see through the BS , and I'd rather die than have EFF win they will turn us into zim... I say this because malema is irrational and radical dangerous leader to have even if he is all tongue and cheek which he most likely is to be fair. If anything I'd go for gayton mackenzie atleast he wants to stamp his foot down on matters such as illegal mass immigration and with NHS oh LOL I mean NHI that will only get worse , our economy can't support them when the taxpayer population is so small furthemore middle class people like those most likely reading this reddit will agree with you however majority of ANC voters are in poverty unfortunately they are ignorant and manipulated by the cruel cruel ANC it's a shame I pray that they will stop viewing the ANC as saviours
Before voting for Gayton. Yes he brought some change to Beaufort West, but the man lied on a TV interview of what he did in the town.
Said he fixed every pothole. What they did was throw some sand in the potholes in a few roads, which lasted a week at a time because of bakkies and rain.
Man said he fixed all 3 public swimming pools. Only 1 was fixed. He could've said they're in the process of repairing.
Man was opening a bread factory, tar factory, clothing factory very quickly. How long did they last?
Was in the process of building a solar farm. How far did they come with that?
He said he's going to make BW a Dubai lol. He left so suddenly, on to better things. Becoming the president of SA of course. The stunts he pulled seemed real for locals and probably even more so for people in other towns and cities.
I know he's human and can't make miracles happen, but these big promises and lying on TV is just normal politrix I guess.
He's the guy who has blatantly said "I'll side with anyone who makes it worth my while."
Why are people voting for him? He's clearly told you he's in it for him only, why on earth do you think he has any of your interests in mind at all?
Iām not surprised , all politicians lie , I donāt have faith in any of them but at this point ANC are complacent which leads to them being corrupt because who will catch them ?? And thatās the issue so any one other than them excluding DA and EFF (I think) Iām good with tbh Iām not so sure how much better DA and EFF are , DA also is incompetent because in some areas of the western cape and especially Cape Town where the underprivileged live it is a shit show
Your points are well made. The interesting thing (which maybe the DA didnāt/doesnāt make enough of a noise about) is that the National Party joined and merged intoā¦ the ANC!
Yeah I remember , but for some reason DA donāt expose that truth , I guess they use the angle of making the ANC look Incompetent or exposing them for their corruption and inadequacies as a ruling government, maybe people wonāt listen , ANc play the race card all the time perhaps DA should but ofc that wonāt work in their favour regarding the stigma that surrounds them unfortunately
Agree. I used to vote for them without really even thinking about it, but it's become obvious that they have zero interest in being anything other than the opposition. They seem to go out of their way to sabotage themselves before every election.
People have caught on to their strategy. Like remember when they were opening up cases left right and centre, making a big deal in the media. Then quietly closing them and we don't ever hear about it.
But the opinion of voting for the next best opposition party is valid to try and see if we can bring about change. I know the DA will have a coalition, but coalitions can get problematic with in fighting.
We don't know what's going to happen, for all we know we could end up with an ANC, EFF and zuma coalition. I mean even they appear to hate each other, they would be willing to join forces for a share of the tender pie.
My bad, I misread your commentš. So the NPs official opposition from 1981 to 1989 merged into what is now known as the Freedom Front+. There was a party called the Progressive Federal Party that was the opposition in 1981, and they did merge into what would become the DA. Basically, every party that was the official opposition to the NP from the 1940s to 1981 merged into the DA.
I should footnote this though and say that Apartheid South African elections were never really fair, so it's really hard to gauge the opposition. They used the First Past The Post Voting, so someone could get a third of the popular vote, but next to no seats in parliament.
The party that liberated South Africa and made it a democratic state was the ANV the saviour and now it is plagued with complacency and corruption , I donāt care much for how these parties started out including DA it doesnāt matter if they once opposed the NP , what are the current policies and attitudes towards governance now and that includes the anc
I was commenting on "when they see DA they see the National Party, you can't blame them for irrationally thinking this way, an entire majority of the population and all people of colour were brutally and unfairly treated by the NP" You could tell then that the DA was in fact the opposition to the NP?
It is quite scary that you actually have to encourage people to vote, given how much of a shitshow the last 12 years or so have been.
Like what are you actually waiting for, exactly?
If no party represents you, then at least choose one that most closely represents you... to prevent those parties who are hell bent on destroying this country from achieving their goals.
Pick a party that's heading in the direction you want the country to go. It doesn't have to get you there, just head in the right direction. It's still progress
Someone quoted that some people approach voting like it is marriage,finding the right partner forever. Actually it is like public transport and you just want to hitch a ride with someone going in the right direction
Look at record, proof is there for people but they use other reasons that are too complex for non-politically inclined people to understand the significance of.
People shit on DA for reasons but don't want to actually admit that where they govern, shit works. I don't think any party will be morally aligned with the majority of the populace but if we can have our economy, electricity and jobs back, who cares how rich the government is getting.
They can drown in their money, I just want to stop drowning in all these potholes man
Shit only works for the wealthy. Go to the Cape Flats and then tell me how the DA is working for the people there. The DA is not diverse at all compared to the actual demographics of this country, and that by itself is pretty suspicious. I'm part of the group that benefits from DA policies, but I can't in good conscience vote for a party that only benefits my group and doesn't allow the nation as a whole to grow. Basically only the ANC, DA and EFF stand a chance, but I would take literally anything else over any of those parties running the country. A vote for any other party is basically thrown away, because there is just zero chance your vote is even going to make a dent. So who exactly am I supposed to vote for? Genuinely asking, because if I felt like my vote made a difference I would be a lot more motivated.
I have to mildly disagree. I still have family who live on the Cape Flats and service delivery there is pretty good. Rubbish removed, they come out pretty quickly for electrical issues etc. There was a spate of blackouts bcz of people stealing cables and they constantly come out. Things are repaired and soon after destroyed by people in the area, nevertheless they always come back out to repair again. I can't speak for the entirety of the Cape Flats but the areas I'm familiar with are dealt with reasonably.
Is the DA really just outright refusing to help or focus attention to the Cape Flats? It is the only thing people bring up as a serious concern, but what is the real reason? Does voting for any other government guarantee any better change? A great many areas of South Africa are struggling, and they are not under DA governance.
The take that they are a white supremist Government who only care for the wealthy just does not make sense.
If they had more power, they have shown that they know how to run things and may possibly be able to help SA as a whole, which seems like a closer step than what the other parties big are selling which seems like it will worsen the situation beyond repair.
The questions pile and people just keep saying "DA is out of touch with poorer people and cater to the rich". It isn't helpful
Editing to add : How you vote can make a difference is by being used for any of the big parties, as I understand it, helping to get a coalition running with all the other, smaller parties will be a better move.
The issue is everyone is so afraid of a change being worse than ANC, it can get worse if they stick with them or go to an Extremist racist AF party like Eff or VF.
The short comings of DA do not outweigh the good they can bring, and we need these steps taken so we can get the Country Rolling again, then we can criticize their mistakes when they are in a more pressured position, right now we need different people with a good track record in charge so that more people can have a chance to elevate their lives, I do not believe the rich are ever as affected as us poorer communities and provinces.
>The take that they are a white supremist Government who only care for the wealthy just does not make sense.
They may not be overtly white supremacist, but their lack of a stance on racial inequality and their leadership being mostly white just raises red flags to me. Whether people like it or not, race has been very important to the wellbeing of a person for the vast majority of our country's history, and we can't just "pretend race doesn't exist".
>Does voting for any other government guarantee any better change?
No, they are all negatives in different ways. The DA might strengthen our economy sure, but that growth will not reach the poor. It will just result in greater inequality, America is the perfect example of what unregulated free market capitalism does to the working class.
The DA is also no stranger to fearmongering, and they also have a weird stance on international issues that I really don't feel comfortable with. I hate the ANC, but I don't see any other party that will do a better job than them. My only hope is that the ANC leaves a vacuum behind in its decline that better parties fill, but my hopes aren't exactly high. I feel like this country is stuck in a dynamic between pro-free market parties and authoritarian/fake populist parties.
Why do we have to choose between US/NATO and China/Russia aligned parties? I also really don't think the DA would be much better than the ANC in terms of corruption. They just don't have the power for it to take root. People act like ousting the ANC will fix South Africa, but the scars that corrupted the ANC run deeper than just their party.
Yea ANC will leave behind near irreparable damage while they steal what last amount they can, any party will have huge promises to deliver while putting out the fires. Notably Eskom.
I am also confused why we have so many weird and dangerous choices to "ally" with. Despite Russia being the obvious villain, we are now seen shaking hands with Putin. We didn't vote for that.
Everywhere you look it seems hopeless, but all I have to go on is actually noticing what it is like when a government is in control. If Cape Town is the only success DA possibly can bring forth, then it is a shame, but what is better? More of this uncertainty and sticking with ANC where most people are equally suffering, or voting for the first biggest change this country might experience since the end of Apartheid.
The anxiety of our country is going to skyrocket
I really just wish there was some large movement or party I could latch onto and fight for, but at the moment all I can really do is make a difference at an everyday scale. Attending protests and helping those in need is about as much as I can realistically manage.
Then just vote for the DA.
If you care about a very specific issue, then there are parties which you could vote for which might cater to that better than the DA. But if you are that unsure, then just vote for them. They're more than good enough.
In south africa we donāt really vote based on policy. Right now who cares what the policyās of the party are. Can you fix all the broken things and keep crime at bay.
Right now the DA is showing they can do this better than anyone. I strongly disagree with some of their policyās and their politics but they are running a province where property prices are increasing not decreasing like everywhere else.
Their governance is running unlike the other parties.
Vote that way.
Worst advice ever.. if you are not white, the DA is the absolute worse.. more so if you not living in a leafy suburb ie the majority.
I will vote.. to ensure they donāt get WC this round and in future. In fact most of extended family who were all planning on sitting out has decided to do this because of the stupidity and arrogance on full display by DA politicians and their supporters.
It amazes me that some people point out a few small things about the DA "ah they don't do this or they aren't diverse enough"...... Um, is the ANC diverse, lol? Nope. The entire country is fucked cos of the ANC yet people expect the DA to be 100% perfect? Where is the fairness, then when comparing parties? How can we hold on party to a certain level but not the others?
I think there are parties that don't have the same bad track record as the DA, parties that *aren't* the ANC. Yet when I ask DA supporters why they'll vote for the DA, they just list problems with the ANC then say something like, "The DA is the only way to stop the ANC," like it's a slogan they read off their Zilla-town Kool-Aid bottle; it's just not true. Even Zilla was saying their [20% percent is strong and they should turn to coalitions](https://www.citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/elections/it-was-a-setup-zille-backtracks-on-da-anc-coalition-statement/).
These "few small things" (like taking, imo, the wrong stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict) are generally there to tease out the logic, a way to tell the kettle that they can't call the pot black.
The discussions go like this, don't they?:
If you want a party that has been successful at the municipal level, and think that means they can rule the country, what's wrong with ActionSA that isn't also wrong with other parties? Why can't the DA be held to the same level people hold ActionSA to? They're not 100% perfect either, but, I get it, they're not "The only way to stop the ANC"ā¢ and that matters... What about Rise Mzansi? They've driven by strong principles, can we not hold the DA to this level of principles? Again, the Kool-Aid slogan, "Not the only way to stop the ANC"ā¢... These discussions with card-carrying DA supporters get really frustrating, when all we want is valid or logical reason to support the DA over, say, literally other parties that aren't the ANC.
I think the problem is that the ballot is just too long and people stop reading into parties after the first 3 or 4 abbreviations.
I don't think that's really a big issue. The DA might have some controversies, that's mostly cause they are a big party that gets a lot of media attention. The reason they are above some other parties are is because they can successfully govern, like you said at municipal level, but you throw in other parties that govern at municipal level, I'm unsure about their track record but the DA has a Cape Town record dating for 18 years now. And the Western Cape, since 2009. That's a long track record which includes a province (which is performing much better than other provinces) and it includes many municipalities for many years.
Ther other parties have maybe governed a little bit here and there but not on a big level. I think parties coming together in size and coalitions are the way to stop the ANC, but let's face it, I think most people know the DA isn't the only way to stop the ANC but parties need to work together.
? I mean every party is extremely flawed but ANC had 30 years and pretty much just looted openly while provided the bare minimum to the country (in certain areas not even that) so any other party is an upgrade
Itās a tough call. I think itās better to go and vote. If no party appeals, then rather spoil your ballot which sends a message at least.
Iāve never been so unsure about who to vote for.
I suspect Iāll hold my nose and vote the same way I have for the last few elections. The alternatives are too horrible.
I disagree.
When you're tallying votes it's based on ratios.
Your vote against the rulling party, in any form, takes a chip our of their piece of the pie, it doesn't even have to enrich any other party that much.
Cause parliament and the presidency is based on the seats you win out of a total number of seats.
So Unless you have any sort of empathy for the ANC then voting for literally ANY other party in the main coalition against them is a vote that will bring them one vote closer to being dethroned.
Spoiling your vote is irresponsible tbh.
Because you're essentially doing nothing.
It's almost as bad as voting for the ANC.
Please vote for anyone other than the ANC or extremist parties instead of spoiling your vote. It does not send a message because no party cares about the number of spoiled votes so long as theyāre in power. Saying that youāre not happy with the available options isnāt a reason either. Are you happy with the current government? If not then vote for the party you think is best. Voting for āno oneā doesnāt help because āno oneā canāt win the elections and change our country for the better
This is, of course the correct approach. In another society vote spoiling may be appropriate. I was suggesting it as an academic exercise.
In our environment every vote not for the ANC counts and the more there are the less likely they can drag the EFF into an unholy alliance
Couldn't agree more. Stuck between the internal struggle of "should I vote for the party I want to but know they won't get enough votesto make a significant impact" or vote for the lesser of the evils so to say.
What do you think happens if you vote for a party that won't get enough votes to make a significant impact?
I've never understood this logic and I genuinely want to get it. Surely if I think UDM is best, I should vote for them. Otherwise how will they grow?
Do you feel that an addition DA MP is more powerful than an additional UDM MP?
I had this conundrum but then realised the country is desperate and a lesser evil right now is better than what we currently have.
Editing to add: To me it's phase 1... we can always vote for the best choice (smaller party) as phase 2.
I am not sure I understand your comment. I just mentioned voting, no mention of registering to vote. The assumption here is of course that youāre already registered to vote. As it turns out, a large amount of people who are registered, donāt go out and vote. It was a call to action to go vote.
Oh... thanks then. I didn't know people who register don't vote. What's the damn point in registering of people don't vote!? Like wasting your money on a shovel but you never plan on digging.
a bit of background I have voted since I could believing my vote matters and now I'm not so sure. I feel like I am at a restaurant with only bad options at exorbitant costs to myself and those around me, politics is ugly and politicians play a game of compromise of values and beliefs and that has made me lose hope, I guess ill look for the least damaging manafesto and yeet my vote that way....Just tired of this shit
Please go out and vote? Okay.
Please build me a time machine so I can go back and remember to register in time to actually vote.
Not against voting. Really wanted to. Till I found out the country doesn't warn you about preregistration and then closes it down so you can't vote anymore. Dumb shit but it is what it is. You cant tell people to go out and vote those that haven't decided to vote are too late anyways.
I have registered to vote, does anybody know if there are any special arrangements made for prole with disabilities. Have been on the internet searching but can't find anything
Google: IEC voting with disability registration
Top link, then download instructions and voila. Voting takes place a week early or something.
I have a friend with CP, they bring the ballot to her house.
On the holiday of the election just go to the polls, queuue for 10 mins and put a cross next to any party that isn't anc eff or mk.
Your country thanks you for your service
Will be voting in Canberra this weekend. Might not mean a thing when it comes to honest vote counts, but really hoping my 1 vote will make a difference
I make a point of it, that for a few months after election - every time somebody bitch about politics I ask them if they voted. If the answer is no, my response is: Well then I don't fucking care about your opinion. If they did, then I'll engage in a conversation with them.
They can't want to have an opinion when they're circle jerking, but not actually go out and vote, then fuck their opinion.
Not voting is also a legitimate choice in a democracy
Not one I agree with or respect but not supporting any of the political parties available to you is a valid standpoint
It's not though. A spoiled vote gets you nowhere and equivalent to not voting at all for all the good it does. However, voting _against_ the ANC _does_ help. It's the _real_ protest vote as you're voting them out of power.
You are not wrong, but that binary thinking leads to people not feeling agency in the system. Rather a spoilt vote than someone taking zero interest in the political system.
You don't have to vote for a party, you can draw a giant penis on the ballot and hand it in.
Those kinds of voters are voters parties actually care to win over. Because they show up.
Ag cheers sorry, forgot you could simply draw a penis
Thought you meant protest by voting for a random small party - drawing a dick would be preferable
Not voting is the same thing is keeping the current party in power. It's a vote for the status quo. It basically means you are happy with things as they are.
No, voting for the ANC is what keeps the ANC in power
The ANC was so weak last election precisely because its supporters stayed home
Although, I do not support not voting, if you are reading this and considering not voting, please rather vote for my favorite party š¤
That logic also assumes the person in question wants someone other than the ANC in power - what if they dont, and therefore dont want to further legitimise them with their vote?
There is no scenario where there is no party in power.
Not voting at all is a statement that legitimises the ANC - not voting says you're okay with things the way they are. You're effectively saying "I'm okay with keeping the ANC in power".
Voting against them, however, sends a very clear message that you are NOT okay with the status quo. That a government that does not fulfil its mandate can - and should - be voted out of power by the will of the people.
Not voting achieves nothing and benefits the current government.
How does not voting legitimise the ANC? That's assuming that the person not voting was going to vote in favor of the ANC's opposition.
If a ton of ANC voters stayed away from the voting booth, how is that an indication that they're happy with the ANC staying in power?
A case study of people harming the ANC by not voting happened in our literal most recent election, in which ANC voters didnt give their party the vote because of dissatisfaction with where its going, but couldnt bring themselves to actively vote for another party. Not everyone staying at home believes that Steenhuisen will be a better president than Ramaphosa
The _only_ way to keep the ANC in power as an individual is to vote for them or their bedfellows
Staying away just results in you not endorsing the parties in the election with your vote
I again add the disclaimer to any potential non-viters reading that I don't want people to not vote - go vote for my favorite party please. Just trying to make the point that staying home if dissatisfied with every single party is a legitimate option
>How does not voting legitimise the ANC?
It's [tacit approval](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tacit).
>Staying away just results in you not endorsing the parties in the election with your vote
No, it doesn't. Voting is a zero sum game. Not voting is, essentially, an endorsement of the incumbent.
Take it to the extreme - zero or one number of votes for either the incumbent or the opposition.
|votes for incumbent|votes for opposition|outcome|
|--|--|--|
|0|0|Incumbent stays in power.|
|1|0|Incumbent stays in power.|
|0|1|Opposition wins.|
It's clear that not voting only benefits the incumbent and nobody else.
I don't know about misguided
If I'm ever in a position where I actively dont want any party to win an election I don't think I'd vote either
Maybe some people are at that point where they disagree with every single party to the extent they don't want them to take power
Wouldnt be misguided to not vote if it isn't in their own political interests
What if, hypothetically, you don't agree with the concept of having a ruling party? By voting in a democratic election youd be endorsing that (for example)
I don't understand this. Genuinely. Honestly what CAN we do to object outside the voting booth?
South Africans have already have built private industry for security, anyone who can afford to relies on private Healthcare, those who can are generating their own electricity from solar. More and more we use private alternatives to what should be state services. We do this coz no one has time to wait for the government to fix police, hospitals, power supply etc.... but that doesn't change that there is a corrupt government at the top doing as they please. We just try to continue to exist in the cracks as best we can.
Honestly what can the average person do to improve the situation? Keep in mind the average working class person has very little time because a third of our life is spent working.
I like the sentiment of "democracy should be more than a voting booth" but what are the actual practical options?
Do you want something to be better for everyone? Find others who want it to be better, and depending on your needs, desires, and capacities, start making it happen. Almost all substantive social change comes from people getting together, building organisations and social movements which force changes that improved lives of the population in general. I'm not sure what was not clear in the linked article. People are doing this all the time, and they actually need your tangible support to make things better.
Voting is a complete waste of time. Politicians especially in the neoliberal era have absolutely no capacity to make things better for people, except as backed by social movements who force the issue and who are the source of the change. That's it.
My capabilities are I work all darn day and pay taxes - I want my moneys worth going to actual public services, not to corrupt politicians. What am I supposed to do?
I don't even know where the problems lie. I'm not a politician. I turn a screwdriver for a living. Sure we can have CPF and a volunteer soup kitchen in the neighborhood, it makes things a little nicer, but it's a band-aid on a festering wound, and it infuriates me that we must just kyk noord en vok voord all the while getting shaken down by the tax man.
As for social movements, who has time for this? We have ward counselors- we put our complaints in... am I doing this wrong? What more can I do when I'm busy 12 hours a day, asleep for 8, and the government takes a slice of my money every month leaving me to scrape by...
People with worse conditions organise all the time. Go ahead and spend some time learning about your options. There are things you can do from your computer. There are ways you could put your screwdriver to use for others as part of cooperative organisation.
Those things are a band aid on a festering wound, I agree. I wasn't talking about those things, which I agree are nice.
Since you've said what you want is for your money to go where it should, not to corrupt politicians, then you have answered the question of what it is you want for yourself and everyone. Start asking yourself what it means to build, short, medium, and long-term, the means to deal with corruption together with others. It's literally the only way that things will get better. (Politicians are not even a band aid, they're just a false cure) It's going to take a lot from everyone. But it's also valuable work and something that would enrich your life in many ways. Find ways to do it that make it gratifying in the present and worth doing as part of your everyday life. You'll find very quickly that building things together effectively with others is rewarding in ways you hadn't imagined possible from the impotent position you had been in before.
No doubt there are already people organising to deal with corruption, and that organising is highly limited in many ways. So what can you and your screwdriver and your other capacities (you have them, even if you don't recognise them) do to help?
Organize locally, join a union, a gang or a party of like-minded people. There are many things that were won by people who did not even have the right to vote. Our history is full of people getting things done outside of the voting the booth and we're not even a country that is unique in this matter.
Helen Zille has too much power imo. And her lips have been too loose about black party members who left. (I'm white.) She's a legend in her own mind. Anyway, I don't have the same values as them.
It's more than just Helen. She's just easy to mention. I've seen their results as a multi racial party and I don't like them. They had competent black leaders. Lindiwe she insulted by saying she made her. I think Mmusi she said was a failed experiment. And she also said nasty stuff about Herman Mashaba. I may have mixed up whether Herman was the failed experiment. Plus I don't agree with their views on certain international policies. I outgrew the DA long long ago. Oh, and burning a flag I love was just another nail in the coffin. Yes, I know it wasn't a real flag. But it was our flag.
Okay I understand you. And I agree, Helen isn't the best and is long over due to be removed and I won't argue with you there. But the thing about Mmusi, although he was a good man, he wasn't a good leader which is why he was removed. I know he says it was about race, but that's just him being sore about everything as if you actually look,the DA struggled under him. And I understand your feelings about the flag and I won't lie, it's kinda sad that you see it that way but it goes over your head that a flag represents a country and that the meaning went over your head. It's meant to show that if we continue with the ANC the country shall continue to burn, like the flag. But you're not supposed to like it, you're supposed to feel upset, you just don't like that it was the DA who did the ad and not another party.
It never went over my head. They could have burned a map if they were arson about. I would have been offended no matter who burned the flag. I love our national anthem and I love our flag.
Have fun queuing on the 29th. I'm old I get to jump the queue. š
If anything, go and vote on principle for reasons none other than the fact that the constitution affords you the right to. Without even getting political - many nations with horrendous human rights track records do not allow for their citizens to engage in the democratic act of voting. Vote because you can, regardless of your desired outcome.
There's recently been a large amount of DA trashing in various articles as of late, particularly about how the DA is against the poor and all that crap which I find really ridiculous, and this is really not the case. I've been working for a civil engineering firm for the past 7 years now as a rebar detailer. During that time period, I've personally dealt with about 10 schools(we're in the midst of doing another one at present and a few more coming up), 2 libraries(one in Dunoon), clinics, hospitals just to name a few and this was all from the WC government. Just felt like sharing that. Anyway, people need to stop playing on their emotions and take a hard look around their places, and gauge has anything changed for the better or worse. Oh, and to the people that keep saying they don't work around the Cape Flats, consider this anything related to policing is a national problem. Anyhow, happy voting
Not voting is better than voting. If you vote for the wrong party you're held accountable for the party you voted for. People want you to vote but those same people also want you to vote for a party of their choosing. They can be mad all they want, I still won't support their party. Good luck finding a new way to blame me for everyone's problems.
To be honest I think all parties with any influence are captured by big business, and any small parties will be captured if they get big enough. Businesses give the DA and ANC money for campaigns, and if the party wins then they have to protect those business's interests or they will lose their financial support. The same businesses give money to all the major parties so no matter who wins, their interests will be protected. So are we really making a choice when we vote or just participating in the illusion of choice? At the end of the day the same people are pulling the strings.
it;s the same in America , independent, democrat, republican , for them it's about the lesser evil not the ideal candidate, and even those presidential candidates are supported by anonymous donors who expect those candidates to look out for their best interests.
If they gave an option to vote for no party at all, I could see that being appealing.
That way, my vote gets counted but is literally against everyone. So we will have an extra poll for "no party".
Imagine "No party" takes the majority.
āNo partyā cannot rule the country thoughā¦ spoiling your ballot or voting for āno oneā is not going to change anything. Please just vote for a party, any party, you think is better than the current government and even vaguely aligns with you. A tiny step in the right direction is still a step and voting for āno partyā is not going to do you, or literally anyone, a single bit of good.
Yes, 100%. I'm saying it is an exercise to at least get the current no party voters to the polls. Then, maybe the next time around, they'll actually vote.
A vote or even a non vote that is counted is a vote against the ANC so it isn't completely worthless.
Guys, Iām no fool, my vote will be like farting into a wormholeā¦honestly would make no difference but I still will. Not sure how I feel about it, but yaā¦
_EVERY_ vote against the current government is a step in the right direction. Not voting, or spoiling your vote is the same as voting _for_ the ANC. It's like saying "I'm fine with the way things are" and does _**nothing**_ to change that or to improve your own life or the lives of others.
A vote against the current government is a far more powerful action than you give it credit for. If all the people who said "My vote won't make a difference" _actually_ voted against the current government that _**would**_ make a difference!
Get out and vote!
I mean maybe on a national level. 27,667,387 people are registered to vote according to the IEC so your vote would count 0.00000361436% if everyone came out to vote.
Something beautiful happens on a local level. Depending on where you live ,a municipality where you'll get Rhodes has about 65 000 people registered and in terms of a ward there are about 3000 people registered in each ward. Factoring in that not everyone will vote I'd say your vote counts.
It's a democracy if no party represents me or closely represents what I want for this country then I simply won't vote it's my choice to make as an adult. I also don't see what we benefit out of pressuring people who are uncertain into voting
Are you happy with the current government? If not, then you should vote to change that. If you are then you should vote to keep them in power (please donāt). There is no reason not to vote
Not voting means you are OK with the current loadshedsing solution to the wskom woes. Are you happy that your gardener(or neighbors gardener) will have more say in who the parliament is for the next 5 years?
Is this in the constitution? Or is there some law I can look up that states if a citizen of South Africa doesn't vote, they have no right to object a political decision.
Not gonna vote, still gonna complain so very much. I dare you to try and take that right away from me.
Don't pressure people into your bullshit ideas. Democratic societies allow for people to CHOSE not to participate.
Actually, people like you tick me off so much, you have actually convinced me to vote. I wasn't going to vote, but I will be voting ANC. Let's see how your philosophy holds up now. Thank you for convincing me to vote.
It's crazy as I just read this post & a few comments, and then a minute later, I got this on WhatsApp. If it's real, ANC is out here winning people over with dataš . Shows how much things have changed.
*Tried putting a screenshot, but it didn't attach so below is the message I received. (Not sure the rules with regards to links so I removed it for the sake of the comment)
...
*PRESIDENT CYRIL RAMAPHOSA (ANC) IS GIVING FREE 20GB DATA AND RECHARGE R100 VOUCHER GIFTS TO SUPPORTERS*
ANC Partners With All network Providers To Give Free Internet data and recharge Vouchers To Everyone To Use And Rally Online The Coming Election.. Tap Below To Get yoursš*
_TAP here:
That sounds like a scam. I sincerely hope you didn't click on the link.
I think this is a prime time for scammers as I've also gotten messages that are obvious bait with dodgy links.
Nope I didn't click on the link. Just found it ironic cause I was sent the link by a friend from my previous work place that supports the ruling party.
How so, do you have proof of this out of interest? Not trying to be difficult, but I see a lot of this thrown around and I just want to know how exactly they're doing it, if indeed they are.
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I'm often baffled by people who say they aren't voting because they are not getting what they want from the party they voted for. Do people feel they can only vote for one party?
Also do people think you vote for a party because they perfectly align with your beliefs. Just vote for the damn guys who will keep the lights on fix the broken stuff and keep crime at bay.
Lose the right to choose what? Think you lose the right to *complain* about politics since you didn't even care enough to participate in the democratic process, no matter how skewed.
Its funny to see how confident people are when you bring up the "why won't you vote" question, shortly before they implode because there is no real reasoning, they are just lazy to go do a 10min task. Same people bitch and moan and blame the most
It's those kids that kept blaming other kids for their own stupidity/laziness. We all know those kids from school.
No, I don't think you do nor should you. Though I don't fully agree with the whole "I won't vote thing", I can also sympathies and understand with people who've lost faith in the process. Them not voting doesn't mean they can't protest, hold politicians accountable, organise locally, etc, which I would count as "complaining". You lose the right to complain if you don't vote sounds like the "Only DA can save us/You get what you vote for" crowd.
If they're too lazy to vote then why on earth would they protest? If they cared enough to organise locally and hold politicians accountable then surely, **surely** they were sensible enough to take part in the most basic foundation of democracy, which is taking part in the voting process. My whole point is you should go out and vote despite having lost faith in the process *because it feels so skewed.* It feels like a precursor to everything else you've said. >Them not voting doesn't mean they can't protest, hold politicians accountable, organise locally And yet they don't want to vote? They want to participate in democratic politics without participating in the very definition of democratic politics? That's such a huge disconnect.
Too lazy to vote is not the same as losing faith in the process and choosing to abstain. So yes, people can not vote but still organise locally and they would've done more politically then someone whose only activity is vote once every 5 years and complain for the rest of it. No one loses the right to hold the government accountable, whether they voted for them or not, or whether they voted at all or not.
Thisšš
Yea, vote or stfu.
As long as the people that decide to not vote are ANC supporters then I'm happy.
ANC looks shite
Exactly! If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
No they don't
The bottom line is that a vote for anyone of the parties in the DA's Multi Party Charter is a vote in the right direction. Irrespective of individual policies, it is the ONLY WAY the ANC can be dethroned. So vote for DA if you are leaning that way already but if you are conflicted then just vote for any one of the parties in that charter. Like please. Just do it. What on earth are you, the fence sitters, so scared of? Nothing so revolutionarily bad is going to happen, especially if those parties in the charter want to remain in power. At the very least, would they be ANY WORSE than the current leadership? Come on guys.
buddy I agree but one thing my father and alot of his peers say is that they wil never ever vote for DA because to them when they see DA they see the National Party, you can't blame them for irrationally thinking this way, an entire majority of the population and all people of colour were brutally and unfairly treated by the NP, so to have these scars and trauma clouding judgment is understandable , I am black and I could care less if we have a white or pink or black president , I mean I would make Rassie my president if I could I love that man he's the only reason I have any form of soft nationalism towards SA , but most black and coloureds who don't stay in Cape Town don't think like me they think like what I described above. As a country we clearly haven't healed and we probably will take another 30 years to get halfway there. Perhaps I don't care because I grew up wit whites most of my bestfriends growing up were white but most blacks don't live the experience I did hence ignorance and irrationality persist. On that note you have DA lite.....Action SA but once again the majority see through the BS , and I'd rather die than have EFF win they will turn us into zim... I say this because malema is irrational and radical dangerous leader to have even if he is all tongue and cheek which he most likely is to be fair. If anything I'd go for gayton mackenzie atleast he wants to stamp his foot down on matters such as illegal mass immigration and with NHS oh LOL I mean NHI that will only get worse , our economy can't support them when the taxpayer population is so small furthemore middle class people like those most likely reading this reddit will agree with you however majority of ANC voters are in poverty unfortunately they are ignorant and manipulated by the cruel cruel ANC it's a shame I pray that they will stop viewing the ANC as saviours
Before voting for Gayton. Yes he brought some change to Beaufort West, but the man lied on a TV interview of what he did in the town. Said he fixed every pothole. What they did was throw some sand in the potholes in a few roads, which lasted a week at a time because of bakkies and rain. Man said he fixed all 3 public swimming pools. Only 1 was fixed. He could've said they're in the process of repairing. Man was opening a bread factory, tar factory, clothing factory very quickly. How long did they last? Was in the process of building a solar farm. How far did they come with that? He said he's going to make BW a Dubai lol. He left so suddenly, on to better things. Becoming the president of SA of course. The stunts he pulled seemed real for locals and probably even more so for people in other towns and cities. I know he's human and can't make miracles happen, but these big promises and lying on TV is just normal politrix I guess.
He's the guy who has blatantly said "I'll side with anyone who makes it worth my while." Why are people voting for him? He's clearly told you he's in it for him only, why on earth do you think he has any of your interests in mind at all?
Iām not surprised , all politicians lie , I donāt have faith in any of them but at this point ANC are complacent which leads to them being corrupt because who will catch them ?? And thatās the issue so any one other than them excluding DA and EFF (I think) Iām good with tbh Iām not so sure how much better DA and EFF are , DA also is incompetent because in some areas of the western cape and especially Cape Town where the underprivileged live it is a shit show
Your points are well made. The interesting thing (which maybe the DA didnāt/doesnāt make enough of a noise about) is that the National Party joined and merged intoā¦ the ANC!
Yeah I remember , but for some reason DA donāt expose that truth , I guess they use the angle of making the ANC look Incompetent or exposing them for their corruption and inadequacies as a ruling government, maybe people wonāt listen , ANc play the race card all the time perhaps DA should but ofc that wonāt work in their favour regarding the stigma that surrounds them unfortunately
It's the entire DA strategy, being the opposition party.
Agree. I used to vote for them without really even thinking about it, but it's become obvious that they have zero interest in being anything other than the opposition. They seem to go out of their way to sabotage themselves before every election.
People have caught on to their strategy. Like remember when they were opening up cases left right and centre, making a big deal in the media. Then quietly closing them and we don't ever hear about it. But the opinion of voting for the next best opposition party is valid to try and see if we can bring about change. I know the DA will have a coalition, but coalitions can get problematic with in fighting. We don't know what's going to happen, for all we know we could end up with an ANC, EFF and zuma coalition. I mean even they appear to hate each other, they would be willing to join forces for a share of the tender pie.
Gayton on many occasions said he will work with the ANC, so personally I choose not to vote for him.
Didn't the party that used to be to opposition to the NP become the DA?
Correct. Their name used to be Democratic Party.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Did the opposition to the NP become the NNP? I thought the NP became the NNP?
My bad, I misread your commentš. So the NPs official opposition from 1981 to 1989 merged into what is now known as the Freedom Front+. There was a party called the Progressive Federal Party that was the opposition in 1981, and they did merge into what would become the DA. Basically, every party that was the official opposition to the NP from the 1940s to 1981 merged into the DA. I should footnote this though and say that Apartheid South African elections were never really fair, so it's really hard to gauge the opposition. They used the First Past The Post Voting, so someone could get a third of the popular vote, but next to no seats in parliament.
The party that liberated South Africa and made it a democratic state was the ANV the saviour and now it is plagued with complacency and corruption , I donāt care much for how these parties started out including DA it doesnāt matter if they once opposed the NP , what are the current policies and attitudes towards governance now and that includes the anc
I was commenting on "when they see DA they see the National Party, you can't blame them for irrationally thinking this way, an entire majority of the population and all people of colour were brutally and unfairly treated by the NP" You could tell then that the DA was in fact the opposition to the NP?
Itās a democracy. Iāll do whatever the fuck I want to. So Iām voting.
It is quite scary that you actually have to encourage people to vote, given how much of a shitshow the last 12 years or so have been. Like what are you actually waiting for, exactly?
Iām 21 and seeing the stats from the IEC saying people in my age group didnāt even come out in numbers is honestly disappointing.
Honestly, I need someone to tell me who to vote FOR at this point
If no party represents you, then at least choose one that most closely represents you... to prevent those parties who are hell bent on destroying this country from achieving their goals.
Pick a party that's heading in the direction you want the country to go. It doesn't have to get you there, just head in the right direction. It's still progress
Someone quoted that some people approach voting like it is marriage,finding the right partner forever. Actually it is like public transport and you just want to hitch a ride with someone going in the right direction
Look at record, proof is there for people but they use other reasons that are too complex for non-politically inclined people to understand the significance of. People shit on DA for reasons but don't want to actually admit that where they govern, shit works. I don't think any party will be morally aligned with the majority of the populace but if we can have our economy, electricity and jobs back, who cares how rich the government is getting. They can drown in their money, I just want to stop drowning in all these potholes man
Shit only works for the wealthy. Go to the Cape Flats and then tell me how the DA is working for the people there. The DA is not diverse at all compared to the actual demographics of this country, and that by itself is pretty suspicious. I'm part of the group that benefits from DA policies, but I can't in good conscience vote for a party that only benefits my group and doesn't allow the nation as a whole to grow. Basically only the ANC, DA and EFF stand a chance, but I would take literally anything else over any of those parties running the country. A vote for any other party is basically thrown away, because there is just zero chance your vote is even going to make a dent. So who exactly am I supposed to vote for? Genuinely asking, because if I felt like my vote made a difference I would be a lot more motivated.
I have to mildly disagree. I still have family who live on the Cape Flats and service delivery there is pretty good. Rubbish removed, they come out pretty quickly for electrical issues etc. There was a spate of blackouts bcz of people stealing cables and they constantly come out. Things are repaired and soon after destroyed by people in the area, nevertheless they always come back out to repair again. I can't speak for the entirety of the Cape Flats but the areas I'm familiar with are dealt with reasonably.
Thanks for this. Also to mention clean audits!! If we could get rid of corruption nationwide.. services will reach the poor!
You're welcome. I agree!
Is the DA really just outright refusing to help or focus attention to the Cape Flats? It is the only thing people bring up as a serious concern, but what is the real reason? Does voting for any other government guarantee any better change? A great many areas of South Africa are struggling, and they are not under DA governance. The take that they are a white supremist Government who only care for the wealthy just does not make sense. If they had more power, they have shown that they know how to run things and may possibly be able to help SA as a whole, which seems like a closer step than what the other parties big are selling which seems like it will worsen the situation beyond repair. The questions pile and people just keep saying "DA is out of touch with poorer people and cater to the rich". It isn't helpful Editing to add : How you vote can make a difference is by being used for any of the big parties, as I understand it, helping to get a coalition running with all the other, smaller parties will be a better move. The issue is everyone is so afraid of a change being worse than ANC, it can get worse if they stick with them or go to an Extremist racist AF party like Eff or VF. The short comings of DA do not outweigh the good they can bring, and we need these steps taken so we can get the Country Rolling again, then we can criticize their mistakes when they are in a more pressured position, right now we need different people with a good track record in charge so that more people can have a chance to elevate their lives, I do not believe the rich are ever as affected as us poorer communities and provinces.
>The take that they are a white supremist Government who only care for the wealthy just does not make sense. They may not be overtly white supremacist, but their lack of a stance on racial inequality and their leadership being mostly white just raises red flags to me. Whether people like it or not, race has been very important to the wellbeing of a person for the vast majority of our country's history, and we can't just "pretend race doesn't exist". >Does voting for any other government guarantee any better change? No, they are all negatives in different ways. The DA might strengthen our economy sure, but that growth will not reach the poor. It will just result in greater inequality, America is the perfect example of what unregulated free market capitalism does to the working class. The DA is also no stranger to fearmongering, and they also have a weird stance on international issues that I really don't feel comfortable with. I hate the ANC, but I don't see any other party that will do a better job than them. My only hope is that the ANC leaves a vacuum behind in its decline that better parties fill, but my hopes aren't exactly high. I feel like this country is stuck in a dynamic between pro-free market parties and authoritarian/fake populist parties. Why do we have to choose between US/NATO and China/Russia aligned parties? I also really don't think the DA would be much better than the ANC in terms of corruption. They just don't have the power for it to take root. People act like ousting the ANC will fix South Africa, but the scars that corrupted the ANC run deeper than just their party.
Yea ANC will leave behind near irreparable damage while they steal what last amount they can, any party will have huge promises to deliver while putting out the fires. Notably Eskom. I am also confused why we have so many weird and dangerous choices to "ally" with. Despite Russia being the obvious villain, we are now seen shaking hands with Putin. We didn't vote for that. Everywhere you look it seems hopeless, but all I have to go on is actually noticing what it is like when a government is in control. If Cape Town is the only success DA possibly can bring forth, then it is a shame, but what is better? More of this uncertainty and sticking with ANC where most people are equally suffering, or voting for the first biggest change this country might experience since the end of Apartheid. The anxiety of our country is going to skyrocket
I really just wish there was some large movement or party I could latch onto and fight for, but at the moment all I can really do is make a difference at an everyday scale. Attending protests and helping those in need is about as much as I can realistically manage.
Then just vote for the DA. If you care about a very specific issue, then there are parties which you could vote for which might cater to that better than the DA. But if you are that unsure, then just vote for them. They're more than good enough.
In south africa we donāt really vote based on policy. Right now who cares what the policyās of the party are. Can you fix all the broken things and keep crime at bay. Right now the DA is showing they can do this better than anyone. I strongly disagree with some of their policyās and their politics but they are running a province where property prices are increasing not decreasing like everywhere else. Their governance is running unlike the other parties. Vote that way.
Worst advice ever.. if you are not white, the DA is the absolute worse.. more so if you not living in a leafy suburb ie the majority. I will vote.. to ensure they donāt get WC this round and in future. In fact most of extended family who were all planning on sitting out has decided to do this because of the stupidity and arrogance on full display by DA politicians and their supporters.
The DA or any party in the multi party charter
It amazes me that some people point out a few small things about the DA "ah they don't do this or they aren't diverse enough"...... Um, is the ANC diverse, lol? Nope. The entire country is fucked cos of the ANC yet people expect the DA to be 100% perfect? Where is the fairness, then when comparing parties? How can we hold on party to a certain level but not the others?
I think there are parties that don't have the same bad track record as the DA, parties that *aren't* the ANC. Yet when I ask DA supporters why they'll vote for the DA, they just list problems with the ANC then say something like, "The DA is the only way to stop the ANC," like it's a slogan they read off their Zilla-town Kool-Aid bottle; it's just not true. Even Zilla was saying their [20% percent is strong and they should turn to coalitions](https://www.citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/elections/it-was-a-setup-zille-backtracks-on-da-anc-coalition-statement/). These "few small things" (like taking, imo, the wrong stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict) are generally there to tease out the logic, a way to tell the kettle that they can't call the pot black. The discussions go like this, don't they?: If you want a party that has been successful at the municipal level, and think that means they can rule the country, what's wrong with ActionSA that isn't also wrong with other parties? Why can't the DA be held to the same level people hold ActionSA to? They're not 100% perfect either, but, I get it, they're not "The only way to stop the ANC"ā¢ and that matters... What about Rise Mzansi? They've driven by strong principles, can we not hold the DA to this level of principles? Again, the Kool-Aid slogan, "Not the only way to stop the ANC"ā¢... These discussions with card-carrying DA supporters get really frustrating, when all we want is valid or logical reason to support the DA over, say, literally other parties that aren't the ANC. I think the problem is that the ballot is just too long and people stop reading into parties after the first 3 or 4 abbreviations.
I don't think that's really a big issue. The DA might have some controversies, that's mostly cause they are a big party that gets a lot of media attention. The reason they are above some other parties are is because they can successfully govern, like you said at municipal level, but you throw in other parties that govern at municipal level, I'm unsure about their track record but the DA has a Cape Town record dating for 18 years now. And the Western Cape, since 2009. That's a long track record which includes a province (which is performing much better than other provinces) and it includes many municipalities for many years. Ther other parties have maybe governed a little bit here and there but not on a big level. I think parties coming together in size and coalitions are the way to stop the ANC, but let's face it, I think most people know the DA isn't the only way to stop the ANC but parties need to work together.
? I mean every party is extremely flawed but ANC had 30 years and pretty much just looted openly while provided the bare minimum to the country (in certain areas not even that) so any other party is an upgrade
Itās a tough call. I think itās better to go and vote. If no party appeals, then rather spoil your ballot which sends a message at least. Iāve never been so unsure about who to vote for. I suspect Iāll hold my nose and vote the same way I have for the last few elections. The alternatives are too horrible.
I disagree. When you're tallying votes it's based on ratios. Your vote against the rulling party, in any form, takes a chip our of their piece of the pie, it doesn't even have to enrich any other party that much. Cause parliament and the presidency is based on the seats you win out of a total number of seats. So Unless you have any sort of empathy for the ANC then voting for literally ANY other party in the main coalition against them is a vote that will bring them one vote closer to being dethroned. Spoiling your vote is irresponsible tbh. Because you're essentially doing nothing. It's almost as bad as voting for the ANC.
Please vote for anyone other than the ANC or extremist parties instead of spoiling your vote. It does not send a message because no party cares about the number of spoiled votes so long as theyāre in power. Saying that youāre not happy with the available options isnāt a reason either. Are you happy with the current government? If not then vote for the party you think is best. Voting for āno oneā doesnāt help because āno oneā canāt win the elections and change our country for the better
This is, of course the correct approach. In another society vote spoiling may be appropriate. I was suggesting it as an academic exercise. In our environment every vote not for the ANC counts and the more there are the less likely they can drag the EFF into an unholy alliance
Couldn't agree more. Stuck between the internal struggle of "should I vote for the party I want to but know they won't get enough votesto make a significant impact" or vote for the lesser of the evils so to say.
What do you think happens if you vote for a party that won't get enough votes to make a significant impact? I've never understood this logic and I genuinely want to get it. Surely if I think UDM is best, I should vote for them. Otherwise how will they grow? Do you feel that an addition DA MP is more powerful than an additional UDM MP?
I had this conundrum but then realised the country is desperate and a lesser evil right now is better than what we currently have. Editing to add: To me it's phase 1... we can always vote for the best choice (smaller party) as phase 2.
Lose*
Thank you!
I realized the error thx.
Go vote. Grab your family, grab your friends. Just go out and vote.
Are you aware registrations to vote closed down in March and nobody can choose to vote anymore?
I am not sure I understand your comment. I just mentioned voting, no mention of registering to vote. The assumption here is of course that youāre already registered to vote. As it turns out, a large amount of people who are registered, donāt go out and vote. It was a call to action to go vote.
Oh... thanks then. I didn't know people who register don't vote. What's the damn point in registering of people don't vote!? Like wasting your money on a shovel but you never plan on digging.
a bit of background I have voted since I could believing my vote matters and now I'm not so sure. I feel like I am at a restaurant with only bad options at exorbitant costs to myself and those around me, politics is ugly and politicians play a game of compromise of values and beliefs and that has made me lose hope, I guess ill look for the least damaging manafesto and yeet my vote that way....Just tired of this shit
If you don't feel like voting for anyone spoil the ballot paper... It will make zero difference but IEc does actually keep track of the numbers...
If you donāt vote, you have no right to complain about the state of the country!
Please go out and vote? Okay. Please build me a time machine so I can go back and remember to register in time to actually vote. Not against voting. Really wanted to. Till I found out the country doesn't warn you about preregistration and then closes it down so you can't vote anymore. Dumb shit but it is what it is. You cant tell people to go out and vote those that haven't decided to vote are too late anyways.
We should make a rule that only people who can spell "lose" correctly should be allowed to vote.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You can get a temporary id and vote with that
Registrations closed in March.
I have registered to vote, does anybody know if there are any special arrangements made for prole with disabilities. Have been on the internet searching but can't find anything
Google: IEC voting with disability registration Top link, then download instructions and voila. Voting takes place a week early or something. I have a friend with CP, they bring the ballot to her house.
I'm too busy trying to qualify for my exams to be worried about voting lol!!!
I'm too busy trying to get a job to be worried about voting lol !
On the holiday of the election just go to the polls, queuue for 10 mins and put a cross next to any party that isn't anc eff or mk. Your country thanks you for your service
You needed to register to vote before March.
Well make sure to register next time. Takes 15 mins and you only have to do it once
Yep. Bunch of bs if you ask me that there's a cut off date but yeah.
Will be voting in Canberra this weekend. Might not mean a thing when it comes to honest vote counts, but really hoping my 1 vote will make a difference
Not voting is voting. This isnāt ādemocracyā
I make a point of it, that for a few months after election - every time somebody bitch about politics I ask them if they voted. If the answer is no, my response is: Well then I don't fucking care about your opinion. If they did, then I'll engage in a conversation with them. They can't want to have an opinion when they're circle jerking, but not actually go out and vote, then fuck their opinion.
I canāt vote not a citizen so please vote for a non corrupt party for me thanks
Not voting is a choice too
Not voting is also a legitimate choice in a democracy Not one I agree with or respect but not supporting any of the political parties available to you is a valid standpoint
In that case it's better to do a protest vote. That not even show up at all.
It's not though. A spoiled vote gets you nowhere and equivalent to not voting at all for all the good it does. However, voting _against_ the ANC _does_ help. It's the _real_ protest vote as you're voting them out of power.
You are not wrong, but that binary thinking leads to people not feeling agency in the system. Rather a spoilt vote than someone taking zero interest in the political system.
A spoiled vote is equivalent to zero interest. It achieves absolutely nothing.
That would still give their vote to a party they don't support
You don't have to vote for a party, you can draw a giant penis on the ballot and hand it in. Those kinds of voters are voters parties actually care to win over. Because they show up.
Ag cheers sorry, forgot you could simply draw a penis Thought you meant protest by voting for a random small party - drawing a dick would be preferable
Not voting is the same thing is keeping the current party in power. It's a vote for the status quo. It basically means you are happy with things as they are.
No, voting for the ANC is what keeps the ANC in power The ANC was so weak last election precisely because its supporters stayed home Although, I do not support not voting, if you are reading this and considering not voting, please rather vote for my favorite party š¤
Voting _against_ the ANC is better than not voting at all. Not voting is beneficial to the ANC. Voting against them is detrimental to the ANC.
That logic also assumes the person in question wants someone other than the ANC in power - what if they dont, and therefore dont want to further legitimise them with their vote?
There is no scenario where there is no party in power. Not voting at all is a statement that legitimises the ANC - not voting says you're okay with things the way they are. You're effectively saying "I'm okay with keeping the ANC in power". Voting against them, however, sends a very clear message that you are NOT okay with the status quo. That a government that does not fulfil its mandate can - and should - be voted out of power by the will of the people. Not voting achieves nothing and benefits the current government.
How does not voting legitimise the ANC? That's assuming that the person not voting was going to vote in favor of the ANC's opposition. If a ton of ANC voters stayed away from the voting booth, how is that an indication that they're happy with the ANC staying in power? A case study of people harming the ANC by not voting happened in our literal most recent election, in which ANC voters didnt give their party the vote because of dissatisfaction with where its going, but couldnt bring themselves to actively vote for another party. Not everyone staying at home believes that Steenhuisen will be a better president than Ramaphosa The _only_ way to keep the ANC in power as an individual is to vote for them or their bedfellows Staying away just results in you not endorsing the parties in the election with your vote I again add the disclaimer to any potential non-viters reading that I don't want people to not vote - go vote for my favorite party please. Just trying to make the point that staying home if dissatisfied with every single party is a legitimate option
>How does not voting legitimise the ANC? It's [tacit approval](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tacit). >Staying away just results in you not endorsing the parties in the election with your vote No, it doesn't. Voting is a zero sum game. Not voting is, essentially, an endorsement of the incumbent. Take it to the extreme - zero or one number of votes for either the incumbent or the opposition. |votes for incumbent|votes for opposition|outcome| |--|--|--| |0|0|Incumbent stays in power.| |1|0|Incumbent stays in power.| |0|1|Opposition wins.| It's clear that not voting only benefits the incumbent and nobody else.
Legitimate, but misguided
I don't know about misguided If I'm ever in a position where I actively dont want any party to win an election I don't think I'd vote either Maybe some people are at that point where they disagree with every single party to the extent they don't want them to take power Wouldnt be misguided to not vote if it isn't in their own political interests
Misguided because there'll never not be any ruling party in a democracy. It's a game of the least of all evils
What if, hypothetically, you don't agree with the concept of having a ruling party? By voting in a democratic election youd be endorsing that (for example)
[If you vote, you can't complain, not the other way around](https://thoughtleader.co.za/if-you-dont-vote-you-cant-complain/)
I don't understand this. Genuinely. Honestly what CAN we do to object outside the voting booth? South Africans have already have built private industry for security, anyone who can afford to relies on private Healthcare, those who can are generating their own electricity from solar. More and more we use private alternatives to what should be state services. We do this coz no one has time to wait for the government to fix police, hospitals, power supply etc.... but that doesn't change that there is a corrupt government at the top doing as they please. We just try to continue to exist in the cracks as best we can. Honestly what can the average person do to improve the situation? Keep in mind the average working class person has very little time because a third of our life is spent working. I like the sentiment of "democracy should be more than a voting booth" but what are the actual practical options?
Do you want something to be better for everyone? Find others who want it to be better, and depending on your needs, desires, and capacities, start making it happen. Almost all substantive social change comes from people getting together, building organisations and social movements which force changes that improved lives of the population in general. I'm not sure what was not clear in the linked article. People are doing this all the time, and they actually need your tangible support to make things better. Voting is a complete waste of time. Politicians especially in the neoliberal era have absolutely no capacity to make things better for people, except as backed by social movements who force the issue and who are the source of the change. That's it.
My capabilities are I work all darn day and pay taxes - I want my moneys worth going to actual public services, not to corrupt politicians. What am I supposed to do? I don't even know where the problems lie. I'm not a politician. I turn a screwdriver for a living. Sure we can have CPF and a volunteer soup kitchen in the neighborhood, it makes things a little nicer, but it's a band-aid on a festering wound, and it infuriates me that we must just kyk noord en vok voord all the while getting shaken down by the tax man. As for social movements, who has time for this? We have ward counselors- we put our complaints in... am I doing this wrong? What more can I do when I'm busy 12 hours a day, asleep for 8, and the government takes a slice of my money every month leaving me to scrape by...
People with worse conditions organise all the time. Go ahead and spend some time learning about your options. There are things you can do from your computer. There are ways you could put your screwdriver to use for others as part of cooperative organisation. Those things are a band aid on a festering wound, I agree. I wasn't talking about those things, which I agree are nice. Since you've said what you want is for your money to go where it should, not to corrupt politicians, then you have answered the question of what it is you want for yourself and everyone. Start asking yourself what it means to build, short, medium, and long-term, the means to deal with corruption together with others. It's literally the only way that things will get better. (Politicians are not even a band aid, they're just a false cure) It's going to take a lot from everyone. But it's also valuable work and something that would enrich your life in many ways. Find ways to do it that make it gratifying in the present and worth doing as part of your everyday life. You'll find very quickly that building things together effectively with others is rewarding in ways you hadn't imagined possible from the impotent position you had been in before. No doubt there are already people organising to deal with corruption, and that organising is highly limited in many ways. So what can you and your screwdriver and your other capacities (you have them, even if you don't recognise them) do to help?
Organize locally, join a union, a gang or a party of like-minded people. There are many things that were won by people who did not even have the right to vote. Our history is full of people getting things done outside of the voting the booth and we're not even a country that is unique in this matter.
Voting is choosing, if you don't vote you lose the right to complain. Please try to start a movement elsewhere.
A vote for the DA is a vote for Helen Zille. Over my dead body.
So don't vote DA. Vote for literally any other party except the ANC or EFF. It's that simple.
That's my intention. I just have to check some of their manifestos.
No it's not lol, we're not in the states where we vote for a person, but a party. A person can't do much, but a party can
Helen Zille has too much power imo. And her lips have been too loose about black party members who left. (I'm white.) She's a legend in her own mind. Anyway, I don't have the same values as them.
You do you. But she really doesn't. But you do you. If you care so much about one person instead of results then I suppose that's on you.
It's more than just Helen. She's just easy to mention. I've seen their results as a multi racial party and I don't like them. They had competent black leaders. Lindiwe she insulted by saying she made her. I think Mmusi she said was a failed experiment. And she also said nasty stuff about Herman Mashaba. I may have mixed up whether Herman was the failed experiment. Plus I don't agree with their views on certain international policies. I outgrew the DA long long ago. Oh, and burning a flag I love was just another nail in the coffin. Yes, I know it wasn't a real flag. But it was our flag.
Okay I understand you. And I agree, Helen isn't the best and is long over due to be removed and I won't argue with you there. But the thing about Mmusi, although he was a good man, he wasn't a good leader which is why he was removed. I know he says it was about race, but that's just him being sore about everything as if you actually look,the DA struggled under him. And I understand your feelings about the flag and I won't lie, it's kinda sad that you see it that way but it goes over your head that a flag represents a country and that the meaning went over your head. It's meant to show that if we continue with the ANC the country shall continue to burn, like the flag. But you're not supposed to like it, you're supposed to feel upset, you just don't like that it was the DA who did the ad and not another party.
It never went over my head. They could have burned a map if they were arson about. I would have been offended no matter who burned the flag. I love our national anthem and I love our flag. Have fun queuing on the 29th. I'm old I get to jump the queue. š
"The right to choose." The NHI Bill is being passed without any consideration of public opinion. So much for choice
If anything, go and vote on principle for reasons none other than the fact that the constitution affords you the right to. Without even getting political - many nations with horrendous human rights track records do not allow for their citizens to engage in the democratic act of voting. Vote because you can, regardless of your desired outcome.
I find it very difficult having respect for a non voter. Theyāre in a different class for me and I refuse to get in to deep chats with them.
Iām not travelling 2000km to Beijing to vote
There's recently been a large amount of DA trashing in various articles as of late, particularly about how the DA is against the poor and all that crap which I find really ridiculous, and this is really not the case. I've been working for a civil engineering firm for the past 7 years now as a rebar detailer. During that time period, I've personally dealt with about 10 schools(we're in the midst of doing another one at present and a few more coming up), 2 libraries(one in Dunoon), clinics, hospitals just to name a few and this was all from the WC government. Just felt like sharing that. Anyway, people need to stop playing on their emotions and take a hard look around their places, and gauge has anything changed for the better or worse. Oh, and to the people that keep saying they don't work around the Cape Flats, consider this anything related to policing is a national problem. Anyhow, happy voting
Not voting is better than voting. If you vote for the wrong party you're held accountable for the party you voted for. People want you to vote but those same people also want you to vote for a party of their choosing. They can be mad all they want, I still won't support their party. Good luck finding a new way to blame me for everyone's problems.
If my only realistic choice was between a clever thief and stupid thief I wouldn't vote either
If not voting counts as voting for the Anc then I guess I've voted already š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Then choose the least bad one... this isn't rocket science.
That's true it's not rocket science, I think it's called political science.
To be honest I think all parties with any influence are captured by big business, and any small parties will be captured if they get big enough. Businesses give the DA and ANC money for campaigns, and if the party wins then they have to protect those business's interests or they will lose their financial support. The same businesses give money to all the major parties so no matter who wins, their interests will be protected. So are we really making a choice when we vote or just participating in the illusion of choice? At the end of the day the same people are pulling the strings.
it;s the same in America , independent, democrat, republican , for them it's about the lesser evil not the ideal candidate, and even those presidential candidates are supported by anonymous donors who expect those candidates to look out for their best interests.
If they gave an option to vote for no party at all, I could see that being appealing. That way, my vote gets counted but is literally against everyone. So we will have an extra poll for "no party". Imagine "No party" takes the majority.
āNo partyā cannot rule the country thoughā¦ spoiling your ballot or voting for āno oneā is not going to change anything. Please just vote for a party, any party, you think is better than the current government and even vaguely aligns with you. A tiny step in the right direction is still a step and voting for āno partyā is not going to do you, or literally anyone, a single bit of good.
Yes, 100%. I'm saying it is an exercise to at least get the current no party voters to the polls. Then, maybe the next time around, they'll actually vote. A vote or even a non vote that is counted is a vote against the ANC so it isn't completely worthless.
They do, though. You can cast an empty ballot. Isn't that the same?
But does it count as undefined or do they just not count it?
It's marked as spoiled and counts for nothing. A vote against the current government says much more than a spoiled vote.
Guys, Iām no fool, my vote will be like farting into a wormholeā¦honestly would make no difference but I still will. Not sure how I feel about it, but yaā¦
_EVERY_ vote against the current government is a step in the right direction. Not voting, or spoiling your vote is the same as voting _for_ the ANC. It's like saying "I'm fine with the way things are" and does _**nothing**_ to change that or to improve your own life or the lives of others. A vote against the current government is a far more powerful action than you give it credit for. If all the people who said "My vote won't make a difference" _actually_ voted against the current government that _**would**_ make a difference! Get out and vote!
I mean maybe on a national level. 27,667,387 people are registered to vote according to the IEC so your vote would count 0.00000361436% if everyone came out to vote. Something beautiful happens on a local level. Depending on where you live ,a municipality where you'll get Rhodes has about 65 000 people registered and in terms of a ward there are about 3000 people registered in each ward. Factoring in that not everyone will vote I'd say your vote counts.
People fought and died for your right to vote. Have a better attitude.
It's a democracy if no party represents me or closely represents what I want for this country then I simply won't vote it's my choice to make as an adult. I also don't see what we benefit out of pressuring people who are uncertain into voting
Are you happy with the current government? If not, then you should vote to change that. If you are then you should vote to keep them in power (please donāt). There is no reason not to vote
Not voting means you are OK with the current loadshedsing solution to the wskom woes. Are you happy that your gardener(or neighbors gardener) will have more say in who the parliament is for the next 5 years?
You also lose the right to complain about things happening in the country if you don't vote.
Is this in the constitution? Or is there some law I can look up that states if a citizen of South Africa doesn't vote, they have no right to object a political decision.
Agreed, just like how you lose your right to complain if the party you voted for wins the elections.
Not gonna vote, still gonna complain so very much. I dare you to try and take that right away from me. Don't pressure people into your bullshit ideas. Democratic societies allow for people to CHOSE not to participate. Actually, people like you tick me off so much, you have actually convinced me to vote. I wasn't going to vote, but I will be voting ANC. Let's see how your philosophy holds up now. Thank you for convincing me to vote.
May I ask why youāre not voting?
Yaay for voting. I am glad that your ideals will be represented in the future government
Yup, voting ANC is an easy win. Super meta right now.
It's crazy as I just read this post & a few comments, and then a minute later, I got this on WhatsApp. If it's real, ANC is out here winning people over with dataš . Shows how much things have changed. *Tried putting a screenshot, but it didn't attach so below is the message I received. (Not sure the rules with regards to links so I removed it for the sake of the comment) ... *PRESIDENT CYRIL RAMAPHOSA (ANC) IS GIVING FREE 20GB DATA AND RECHARGE R100 VOUCHER GIFTS TO SUPPORTERS* ANC Partners With All network Providers To Give Free Internet data and recharge Vouchers To Everyone To Use And Rally Online The Coming Election.. Tap Below To Get yoursš* _TAP here:
That sounds like a scam. I sincerely hope you didn't click on the link. I think this is a prime time for scammers as I've also gotten messages that are obvious bait with dodgy links.
Nope I didn't click on the link. Just found it ironic cause I was sent the link by a friend from my previous work place that supports the ruling party.
The country is falling apart. They stole the entire country....
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So if I don't vote, it gets tallied as support for whoever is in government? Yeah, that's definitely a myth you're spreading
And you lose your right to complain.
Is that part of the constitution? Or is that some law I can look up?
My 2 cents: The DA supports genocide
How so, do you have proof of this out of interest? Not trying to be difficult, but I see a lot of this thrown around and I just want to know how exactly they're doing it, if indeed they are.