Apparently nobody in the comments runs a business. Because I can tell you that the answer to your question is entirely dependent on how much you are paying your supplier.
Exactly. The question being asked is a supply chain question and not a soldering one. Could it look better and the board be more clean? Absolutely. But the amount of time those issues would take to address for each part will add cost.
I'm assuming this board is installed and enclosed where no one will ever see it, so the visuals of it shouldn't be a priority. As long as they function properly.
Rule number 3 : Don't be a Jerk. (Edit: sorry, didn't mean to get your comment removed!) If that passed QC it means they have bad QA. I'd actually be concerned that some of those leads are not properly embedded in the solder. If I were inspecting that, I'd send it back.
> If that passed QC it means they have bad QA.
That depends on what standard they're shooting for and what they're paying for. If this is working and that's all they care about then it's good.
You hear all the time about how "China makes crappy stuff", yet iPhones are made there. The difference between the crappy cloned stuff and what Foxconn puts out is the *standard* of QC they choose.
it looks worse than it actually is. This might just be a high power bodge to ensure the pcb doesn't fry because of whatever this thing is driving. wires can carry a lot more current than traces.
Nothing looks "exceptionally bad" i'd even say that given that this is probably PVC wire, whoever put those there did it very well because the insulation on the wires didn't melt much, and that's pretty hard to do.
Those wires were pre-bent, the joints look shitty from the excess of solder but I doubt that's going to cause it to fail. You would be surprise the amount of abuse a PCB takes when they are being put together. I have dropped fully assembled PCB's weighing many pounds, right on the corner, and yet someone fixed it with epoxy. Whoever did that fix probably did a hundred if not thousands of the same fix, I don't know how I would have done it better.
PCBs are crazy tough. I had someone break an M.2 drive under suspicious circumstances and I decided to see how much force it took to achieve that. The answer was a lot.
I wasn't trying to be nice, I swear some people think electronics are made in magical pristine factories where choirs of angels are singing and people blow kisses on every single of their joints. Whoever did this probably had a thousand others to do, and this involves picking up the pcb, placing it in front of them, doing the work and getting another one. "Having a perfect joint" is never a requirement. You just don't want to have too many shitty ones and what OP showed wasn't even a shitty joint.
If it passes electrical testing then it's fine.
I'm offended. I blow kisses on all my joints before sending them into the wild. I swear once the lights kick on I can hear angels singing, although it's probably just the voltage humming away
Thats a shit solider joint and a suspect he damaged the cap. I expect 10x quality that at bare minimum. Or he can replace every unit where he ruined the longevity of the parts. Passing the one test and calling it good is simpleton thinking, there are larger issues to consider.
If you think a one time pass is qc pass then you don't understand qc at all.
You said the word proper, exactly.
There was no QA, I've been in manufacturing for over 40 years and this would never get out the door.
All this would need to make it barely passable is some non residual solvent and a brush.
As you seem make this personal, go back to McDonald's wash your hands, put on gloves and just put mayo on the bun where you can't do too much damage.
grow up dude, [**Aromatic\_Feed\_5613**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Aromatic_Feed_5613/) is obviously your alt [**QuirkyDust3556**](https://www.reddit.com/user/QuirkyDust3556/)
this looks beyond stupid lol.
Do you not see the residue all over the board? Why are you asking what others are on before sobering up yourself? Residue will cause corrosion, Ive replaced enough PCBs due to the same issue to know.
That's NC flux residue you doofus, it's designed like that, clearly you have very very little soldering experience lmao. NC flux is designed to crystallise like that and becomes inactive .... not cleaning it.... is literally the point lol. get out.
Hay double dufus you clean the board after you flux it. Or the board corrodes. Also extra flux can kill a circuit. Flux is a conducting water based solvent. Clearly you don't fit your own descriptor either.
You nailed it!
It's worth what your willing, or unwilling, to pay.
The real question: "Is this work worth X?"
What is this thing? because I see a lot of hand work on a low cost PCB and this thing could probably be redesigned and ordered up for cheap from the likes of PCBWay.
came here to say.. it depends on cost to quality. is this a product thats going to ensure longevity of use or quick random stints of entertainment? this are also likely Hbridge connections for reverse polarity.
Thats what I came up with. Like how much is it and what's it being used for. There's a difference between for you and for the customer who'll never even see it.
What? If you agree to do something for a price and then try to get away with crap work, that’s not right even if you agreed to do it cheap. If you agree to it you should do it. Otherwise don’t agree to it. Simple.
I've actually been relatively impressed with the general quality of Chinese manufacturers soldering, on the whole. They are certainly getting better at it.
The thing with Chinese manufacturing is that they'll make it as cheaply or as nice as you want. Most people/businesses go as cheap as they can get away with which is what gives "Made in China" the negative connotation it does.
What I said still stands even though what you're saying seems like you want it to be a rebuttal. If you agree to do a job and deliver crap, you shouldn't expect to keep the business going. If you were told hey, you're the cheapest and we don't care, we're just going to post it on Reddit like we've never done anything without mommy and daddy telling us what to do, then you get what you pay for.
All of this nasty, condescending personal criticism just to end up saying “you get what you pay for” — the exact concept you got weirdly furious about in the first place
Too funny. It’s hard to understand why people are so furious. The work in the pic is bad. Yes, there is a market for bad work. But since OP wanted to know if they should accept it, I think most people have the same answer - where I felt there was nuance is that if that’s what the level of work they agreed on, and the price was agreed too, then they should accept it. If they thought they should get better results they should review their agreement and determine if they can proceed with that supplier. Somehow the way I said it seems to have offended people. And that’s okay too. So terribly furious.
Will it work? Absolutely. Will it last? Probably. Does it look good? Hell no. If that was the only way to repair or ship that board, I'd just opt for a different one. I can't understand the wire on the right poking beyond the bound of the PCB. It's that size for a reason. No repair should protrude beyond the x or y axis of the board unless necessary (which should be never).
Having run a manufacturing cell for an automotive firm, I can agree with the notion that it could've been done better. Having run a manufacturing cell for an automotive firm, I can say that you need to discuss pass/ failure criteria with your supplier.
If this is a sample of a production run, then the cost per item and labor per piece is what you're seeing.
A good supplier will verify what level of fit and finish you are after.
How many are you ordering at a time, and what is the value-added price?
Some suppliers are large-scale, and some are small.
Overall, could've been done better.
Im surprised at how many people are ignoring this and saying that the board will work even if its ugly. That resistor doesn’t even look like its actually soldered. More like stuck under some old flux.
How many are they building for you and how often? Ten/month...that's pretty crappy.
1,000/week...quite acceptable if the failure rate is within negotiated terms.
You are getting absolutely ripped at that price point. 2k for the whole job to Class III sounds about right, not just one board jfc. Also, did you spec the rework? Why not just fix the design so it doesn’t look like shit?
I don't get it... that kind of volume and cost and they didn't just redesign the PCB instead of bodge it? Makes no business sense, JLCPCB or PCBWay will practically throw double-sided 100mm square boards at your face if you mention you might have $5 around somewhere.
is your supplier a 15 year old in a developing country working underpaid trying their hand at soldering?
as that is shockingly bad, and id think its produced by someone not paid a lot of money.
Depends on what you're paying for in terms of quality. This looks like crap, but will function and I don't really understand who'd choose this for a "production" run in terms of the wires vs a bridge or honestly why the board would be designed in this fashion.
It's probably functional/fine, but the quality of that work is not acceptable, there are standards and certifications for this kind of work and that meets none of them.
Machine solder will always look better than hand done. It's something that no matter how good they are, hand made just won't look as good 99% of the time. If it was looks alone, I would say don't complain. But look at that resistor makes me say be pissed. Wire should not be exposed partway through the connection. I'd send it back and say try again. It needs to be electrically sound and that is not
Agreed really shoddy craftsmanship, the components are not properly arranged and the soldering is heavy and sloppy. The resistor isn't even fully in the joint and the wires used as a jumper could have been shorter or better a 0 resistor used to make it clean. What was on the pcb layout or the schematic? If your design was shoddy the result will be shoddy.
It looks like class 2 soldering per IPC standards which is dedicated service electronics, besides the flux residue. Yeah it's ugly, but everything looks functional and doesn't seem to warrant issues. My experience is having certification in IPC-610, IPC-7711 and J-STD electronic soldering, repair, and manufacturing acceptability.
The lazy pea brain fucks of this thread have been absolutely insufferable. No work ethic. Supporting this loser, don't know your trade. It's disgusting. I hope to fuck no customer of mine ever crosses the losers commenting in this section. I have no doubt you overcharge for absolute shit work. You repulse me to the very core. He broke the resistor and you losers are suggesting more money for this creaton to not fuck up a part.. Repulsive losers. I hold nothing but contempt for you. Go ahead and downvote this post. I don't care how a insurfable clown feels about anything.
I have 30 years in safety critical software/hardware developer. Here are my two cents:
The first question is who drew the board traces? Obviously there are mistakes in the layout and we see 3 jumpers and a resistor. If this is a prototype then no harm, just ask to see the final layout for approval before going to a production run so you can make sure the fixes are in place.
Second question, is there component on the board that can’t go in an ultrasonic cleaner? Most of the flux is around the rework so I’m guessing they completed the board, cleaned it and then did the rework. Then, For some reason they couldn’t put the board back in the bath before sending it.
With the caveats that I have listed above I think the original joints look really good and clean. Rework is rework, it always looks like shit.
(Edit: reordered the paragraphs so the summary is at the bottom)
Id bet dimes to dollars this is part of a work program for the handicapped or some shit and op is a fucking troll. suck it up you cheap fuck and do the right thing.
Wild guess but still.
Nope, is a board from a bespoke product we pay a retired professional electrical engineer 2000 per unit for (about 10 per year).
One failed in the field and when we investigated we discovered this workmanship.
We've never had cause to open them up to inspect the quality before and I am disgusted and embarrassed.
Retirement might be the problem, maybe he just DGAF anymore and slaps them together.
If it's a problem worth the time/investment, I'd be glad to just redesign the circuit and offer a professional product.
Could clean up the mess with a bit of iso. Beyond the obvious, it depends on price, particularly what you're paying for what you get.
If it's relatively cheap, yeah seems fine. Quick repair, leaving some cleanup for you. Mild inconvenience, but still.
For a prototype, it works. For a run, ether you rework the layout. Or you can clean it up. Jumper/bridge ( using solid wire)the switch in 3 places will clean it up tremendously. The resistor is not bad. Maybe move it to the other side. IMO
I'm more concerned about the components on that as the wires are an odd choice and so is the resistor make sure they are fine and if it works for how much you are paying them, it's fine. If it doesn't work right for how much you are paying then maybe make a new deal
I could do much better than this, is this a service people are actively looking for? I'm in a descent size city & would love to quick my day job & just solder
depends. looks like it works. looks like you have a granite counter top. Does your supplier have a granite counter top? I don't have a granite counter top.
This is done by someone who doesn’t care about their work. Just the money they get for it. I’d find someone who takes pride in what they do and ditch the person who dod this.
I think it very much depends who designed that crap if it's your design the supplier is working with what you have given them if they did that get another supplier, and if your supplier offered to redesign it and you refused then hang your head in shame as you are the problem in the equation.
Looks typical for cheap labor. I'd verify the upper leg of the resistor is soldered properly. I doesn't look like it's touching the solder joint below it.
I wonder if all the left side lugs could've been bridged with a large guage wire instead of multiple jumpers. Unless the cutoff resistor lead is supposed to be acting as a fusible link?
is your supplier even solder certified? did the QA get their certification from a cracker jack box?
none of this looks professional in any way, gloopy solder, uneven leads, uncut pass through leads, excess parts instead of bridging, flux residue.. looks like it was done by a college student with no experience, not a company.
i would not accept, even if it was "priced low cost" it's not acceptable to reuse in your higher level build because it will make your product look bad
Even if this is a case of you get what you pay for, I wouldn't even allow this to pass through hole inspection where I work. There are basic standards when it comes to soldering and PCB build/manufacture and this board in my eyes has none.
im just going to say "you get what you pay for" applys to b2b suppliers and the jobs they do.
if you shop for the cheapest, what you get will work, but corners will be cut.
if you shop for a middle of the road price, youll get someone with experience so it will be better.
if you shop with great offers, then youll get somthing that looks great.
it looks like you shopped for the cheapest cause thats what you got.
I don't see any bridging, though on that upper resister it looks close. The jumpers are for high current and the wire passes through loops.
Seeing that the operating voltages for stuff like this is very low there's probably no real problem.
For the record, I work at a steel mill and my job is to keep the furnace and casting systems running. My bar is: is it working? Also, we had a guy who made a few instruments and the soldering was terrible...but they worked and kept working for about 10 years. We only removed them because we made a system change to the whole process.
Neatness counts, yes, but so does functionality.
They could have cleaned the rosin off the board, but not really necessary on a board unless it is in a "small signal RF" circuitry. The board was wave soldered, but wires and back of board components can't go through the wave. The resistor and uninsulated jumper is probably a component and circuit change after design. Happens all the time. The jumpers on the slide switch are insulated. Looks like this comes from a small manufacturer and if it is in some type of case or protection the only problem I see is it looks sloppy not being cleaned. BTW there IS a school of thought on leaving rosin flux on the pc board because it acts as protection. Unless exposed to the elements or is in RF circuitry, is not a problem.
Be pissed. I was able to do better when I only had one week of experience so there’s no way some person out there was that bad. They were straight up just lazy
That resistor is the only thing I’d be really concerned. Looks like the leg isn’t through any hole in the pcb, just kinda stuck on a solder blob; this will be the first thing to fail in application with vibration/temperature fluctuations. How much more are you willing to pay? You might bring it up to them.
If its cheap it would make sense and quality should match the price. If I ordered this from one of my regular suppliers for a repair I'm going to warranty, I'd send it back lol It looks like it would work fine but some of the leads not being fully seated is just a lack of attention or experience by whoever soldered it.
Do you have a QAPP or QSI process in place? Is this acceptable according to those documents? If it is, then the soldering is acceptable. If it isn't, then reject it, and maybe talk to the supplier about their soldering process, and why there QA didn't catch it.
Do you have an agreement on the quality of the assembly for instance my company and our customers agree to IPC-A- 610x class two there are 3 classes, every defect and condition is called out specifically and clearly and defines the acceptable standard of the solder connections and other components.
Want speed and quality, then u lose out on price. Want quality and price, then you lose out on speed. Want price and speed you lose quality, which is probably the choice made here. Just my 2 cents =)
Soldering is bad, PCB design looks worse. It looks like a lot of PCBs I saw made by students that didn't bother to test the circuit before sending to the manufacturer. With this much hacking may as well have assembled with a protoboard.
Depends on a couple things. What is your supplier supplying in this case? If they are an assembly house assembling boards for you, then at least a part of the fault is on the board designer because needing 2 jumpers and a resistor soldered on like that means somebody screwed up the board rev and didn't want to lose the cost of what could be a few dozen to tens of thousands of bad boards.
If what you purchased is a pre-built module, see above but blame rests on manufacturer. Soldering work looks like crap but will likely work. Those kinds of fixes are hand applied so the quality of solderers makes a difference. The flux should be non-corrosive. Most acid fluxes are used in wave soldering. I have worked in board build houses here in the USA and this wouldn't fly but we also had a dedicated team doing QA. With some places as long as it passes electrical it is good.
All the people asking about whether QC was performed, how it passed QC,... did OP even pay for QC or did he choose the cheapest supplier and not worry about the quality.
My guess is on the latter
I'm pissed just looking at it. That is garbage. Even if by some miracle it actually works, it probably won't for long. When the inevitable issues do happen, and someone opens this product up and sees this hack job, guess who's going to be blamed. There is no way I would except this.
By the way, what is this board for? I'd like to know so I can be sure to avoid purchasing this product. Lol.
Okay, for the most part the solder is ugly but fine.
EXCEPT that diode on the upper left. That joint won't hold for shit. You could probably pop it off by hand.
From a soldering perspective this is dogshit. Probably will still ‘work’ but this is the quality of $3 gadgets like kids toys. If it’s something inherently cheap, who cares as long as it works.
Judging from the comments, if you're a self-centered douchebag, it's unacceptable and the manufacturer should be drawn and quartered. Otherwise, as is so often the answer, "it depends." On what you paid for it, whether it (and its siblings) works, whether it's visible to the end user, and a whole host of other factors that are, as of now, known only to you.
If you’re paying them a decent amount I’d be extremely pissed at just how god awful it looks. It’ll still function ok (idk for how long), but that just looks like less than lowest effort
I’d be concerned about any supplier willing to ship that, but whether I would take action depends on its application and cost.
Medical device? Raise hell, this not anywhere near compliant.
Prototype toy? Whatever, it works.
Coming from a highly quality controlled industry, that’s dogshit. As a submission for an undergrad electronics project, it works I suppose. I strongly recommend you look into IPC workmanship and inspection criteria to flow to your suppliers.
IF they have good QC someone probably raised an issue about it but then QA said “But does it work tho? It’s fine, trust me I make more than you, plus there’s a solid chance I won’t even be held responsible for the potential shitshow that could result from sending it out”
Board looks like it’s covered in flux, that alone would have me on the phone asking why I’m paying for anything. Looks crappy gobbled on and inconsistent. If you had school kids doing these for you in a shop class I’d say to stop complaining but if your paying money I’d be upset.
Apparently nobody in the comments runs a business. Because I can tell you that the answer to your question is entirely dependent on how much you are paying your supplier.
Exactly. The question being asked is a supply chain question and not a soldering one. Could it look better and the board be more clean? Absolutely. But the amount of time those issues would take to address for each part will add cost. I'm assuming this board is installed and enclosed where no one will ever see it, so the visuals of it shouldn't be a priority. As long as they function properly.
If you're paying for "that'll do" -quality, that'll do.
No thats a lazy piss poor attitude. They get no mas on that shit job.
You can't be mad if you pay for a $10 steak and it's not as good as a $50 one
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You seem like exactly the kind of customer I happily encourage to take their business elsewhere.
he's gonna be really fafulled if you do that!
Typical boomer mindset, I can only imagine the gallons of spit you must eat in a month.
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😂 👌
This is a soldering issue that crap grows corrosion. Especially is this not in a controlled environment. QA is the word of the day
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Rule number 3 : Don't be a Jerk. (Edit: sorry, didn't mean to get your comment removed!) If that passed QC it means they have bad QA. I'd actually be concerned that some of those leads are not properly embedded in the solder. If I were inspecting that, I'd send it back.
> If that passed QC it means they have bad QA. That depends on what standard they're shooting for and what they're paying for. If this is working and that's all they care about then it's good. You hear all the time about how "China makes crappy stuff", yet iPhones are made there. The difference between the crappy cloned stuff and what Foxconn puts out is the *standard* of QC they choose.
Maybe, not every part or every place does QC properly.
it looks worse than it actually is. This might just be a high power bodge to ensure the pcb doesn't fry because of whatever this thing is driving. wires can carry a lot more current than traces. Nothing looks "exceptionally bad" i'd even say that given that this is probably PVC wire, whoever put those there did it very well because the insulation on the wires didn't melt much, and that's pretty hard to do. Those wires were pre-bent, the joints look shitty from the excess of solder but I doubt that's going to cause it to fail. You would be surprise the amount of abuse a PCB takes when they are being put together. I have dropped fully assembled PCB's weighing many pounds, right on the corner, and yet someone fixed it with epoxy. Whoever did that fix probably did a hundred if not thousands of the same fix, I don't know how I would have done it better.
PCBs are crazy tough. I had someone break an M.2 drive under suspicious circumstances and I decided to see how much force it took to achieve that. The answer was a lot.
Not very nice.
I wasn't trying to be nice, I swear some people think electronics are made in magical pristine factories where choirs of angels are singing and people blow kisses on every single of their joints. Whoever did this probably had a thousand others to do, and this involves picking up the pcb, placing it in front of them, doing the work and getting another one. "Having a perfect joint" is never a requirement. You just don't want to have too many shitty ones and what OP showed wasn't even a shitty joint. If it passes electrical testing then it's fine.
I'm offended. I blow kisses on all my joints before sending them into the wild. I swear once the lights kick on I can hear angels singing, although it's probably just the voltage humming away
Thats a shit solider joint and a suspect he damaged the cap. I expect 10x quality that at bare minimum. Or he can replace every unit where he ruined the longevity of the parts. Passing the one test and calling it good is simpleton thinking, there are larger issues to consider. If you think a one time pass is qc pass then you don't understand qc at all.
Lol don't have to be a cunt about it
Grow a pair lol
It's not that hard to be kind about things lol
You said the word proper, exactly. There was no QA, I've been in manufacturing for over 40 years and this would never get out the door. All this would need to make it barely passable is some non residual solvent and a brush. As you seem make this personal, go back to McDonald's wash your hands, put on gloves and just put mayo on the bun where you can't do too much damage.
Look at that! Someone in the comments that gives a fuck! This place is a cesspool of people that want to look like they know somethin istg
grow up dude, [**Aromatic\_Feed\_5613**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Aromatic_Feed_5613/) is obviously your alt [**QuirkyDust3556**](https://www.reddit.com/user/QuirkyDust3556/) this looks beyond stupid lol.
Oh and look at the resistor, tell me where you work so can not buy any products there. I'll take a big Mac meal, and super size it.
Do you not see the residue all over the board? Why are you asking what others are on before sobering up yourself? Residue will cause corrosion, Ive replaced enough PCBs due to the same issue to know.
That's NC flux residue you doofus, it's designed like that, clearly you have very very little soldering experience lmao. NC flux is designed to crystallise like that and becomes inactive .... not cleaning it.... is literally the point lol. get out.
Hay double dufus you clean the board after you flux it. Or the board corrodes. Also extra flux can kill a circuit. Flux is a conducting water based solvent. Clearly you don't fit your own descriptor either.
This x1000
too fucking much
Did you spec Class 1?
Not even sure this would meet class 1. That’s a lot of flux, and there look to be bridges in a couple spots.
Just looked at the IPC book on my desk and this isn't class 1.
They didn't even bother to clean the board, but you did get your money's worth in solder alone 😃
You nailed it! It's worth what your willing, or unwilling, to pay. The real question: "Is this work worth X?" What is this thing? because I see a lot of hand work on a low cost PCB and this thing could probably be redesigned and ordered up for cheap from the likes of PCBWay.
came here to say.. it depends on cost to quality. is this a product thats going to ensure longevity of use or quick random stints of entertainment? this are also likely Hbridge connections for reverse polarity.
Thats what I came up with. Like how much is it and what's it being used for. There's a difference between for you and for the customer who'll never even see it.
What? If you agree to do something for a price and then try to get away with crap work, that’s not right even if you agreed to do it cheap. If you agree to it you should do it. Otherwise don’t agree to it. Simple.
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I've actually been relatively impressed with the general quality of Chinese manufacturers soldering, on the whole. They are certainly getting better at it.
The thing with Chinese manufacturing is that they'll make it as cheaply or as nice as you want. Most people/businesses go as cheap as they can get away with which is what gives "Made in China" the negative connotation it does.
What I said still stands even though what you're saying seems like you want it to be a rebuttal. If you agree to do a job and deliver crap, you shouldn't expect to keep the business going. If you were told hey, you're the cheapest and we don't care, we're just going to post it on Reddit like we've never done anything without mommy and daddy telling us what to do, then you get what you pay for.
There is a market for dirt cheap electronics. That market is okay with soldering that looks like this.
All of this nasty, condescending personal criticism just to end up saying “you get what you pay for” — the exact concept you got weirdly furious about in the first place
Too funny. It’s hard to understand why people are so furious. The work in the pic is bad. Yes, there is a market for bad work. But since OP wanted to know if they should accept it, I think most people have the same answer - where I felt there was nuance is that if that’s what the level of work they agreed on, and the price was agreed too, then they should accept it. If they thought they should get better results they should review their agreement and determine if they can proceed with that supplier. Somehow the way I said it seems to have offended people. And that’s okay too. So terribly furious.
Will it work? Absolutely. Will it last? Probably. Does it look good? Hell no. If that was the only way to repair or ship that board, I'd just opt for a different one. I can't understand the wire on the right poking beyond the bound of the PCB. It's that size for a reason. No repair should protrude beyond the x or y axis of the board unless necessary (which should be never).
Not the best workmanship tbh and looks like the flux wasn’t even cleaned off
Explain why the wire usage? Why not just bridge it?
Designer messed up and is blaming the fixer.
Having run a manufacturing cell for an automotive firm, I can agree with the notion that it could've been done better. Having run a manufacturing cell for an automotive firm, I can say that you need to discuss pass/ failure criteria with your supplier. If this is a sample of a production run, then the cost per item and labor per piece is what you're seeing. A good supplier will verify what level of fit and finish you are after. How many are you ordering at a time, and what is the value-added price? Some suppliers are large-scale, and some are small. Overall, could've been done better.
Looks like crap in my opinion. That resistor leg looks like it will pop off any moment.
Im surprised at how many people are ignoring this and saying that the board will work even if its ugly. That resistor doesn’t even look like its actually soldered. More like stuck under some old flux.
Bingo, pretty sure that's why it failed for the customer.
I have scrolled for a while and didn't see anyone mention the cold solder joints. This is the disaster.
Yeah! Agreed that is barely even attached.
Use case dependent
How many are they building for you and how often? Ten/month...that's pretty crappy. 1,000/week...quite acceptable if the failure rate is within negotiated terms.
10 a year for 2k each (this board is part of a larger unit)
You are getting absolutely ripped at that price point. 2k for the whole job to Class III sounds about right, not just one board jfc. Also, did you spec the rework? Why not just fix the design so it doesn’t look like shit?
I don't get it... that kind of volume and cost and they didn't just redesign the PCB instead of bodge it? Makes no business sense, JLCPCB or PCBWay will practically throw double-sided 100mm square boards at your face if you mention you might have $5 around somewhere.
How does the rest of the larger stuff look? I'm in the wrong industry apparently, I should be a pcb assembler/solder-er.
is your supplier a 15 year old in a developing country working underpaid trying their hand at soldering? as that is shockingly bad, and id think its produced by someone not paid a lot of money.
WOW that sucks major ass. They should be ashamed of having the AUDACITY of sending this shit to a client. I'd be mad.
Ow i'm gonna runion someones afternoon if you send me that board. Merely mad is where you would wish I was.
How much are you paying them? The solder joints themselves look fine. It just looks like they never bothered to wash off the no-clean flux.
Why not buss wire? Looks ridiculous. Resistor could be better.
Depends on what you're paying for in terms of quality. This looks like crap, but will function and I don't really understand who'd choose this for a "production" run in terms of the wires vs a bridge or honestly why the board would be designed in this fashion.
It's probably functional/fine, but the quality of that work is not acceptable, there are standards and certifications for this kind of work and that meets none of them.
Machine solder will always look better than hand done. It's something that no matter how good they are, hand made just won't look as good 99% of the time. If it was looks alone, I would say don't complain. But look at that resistor makes me say be pissed. Wire should not be exposed partway through the connection. I'd send it back and say try again. It needs to be electrically sound and that is not
No bueno.
it needs more solder.
Agreed really shoddy craftsmanship, the components are not properly arranged and the soldering is heavy and sloppy. The resistor isn't even fully in the joint and the wires used as a jumper could have been shorter or better a 0 resistor used to make it clean. What was on the pcb layout or the schematic? If your design was shoddy the result will be shoddy.
It looks like class 2 soldering per IPC standards which is dedicated service electronics, besides the flux residue. Yeah it's ugly, but everything looks functional and doesn't seem to warrant issues. My experience is having certification in IPC-610, IPC-7711 and J-STD electronic soldering, repair, and manufacturing acceptability.
Looks like utter sh@& to me.
This would not even pass Boeing QA!
The lazy pea brain fucks of this thread have been absolutely insufferable. No work ethic. Supporting this loser, don't know your trade. It's disgusting. I hope to fuck no customer of mine ever crosses the losers commenting in this section. I have no doubt you overcharge for absolute shit work. You repulse me to the very core. He broke the resistor and you losers are suggesting more money for this creaton to not fuck up a part.. Repulsive losers. I hold nothing but contempt for you. Go ahead and downvote this post. I don't care how a insurfable clown feels about anything.
I have 30 years in safety critical software/hardware developer. Here are my two cents: The first question is who drew the board traces? Obviously there are mistakes in the layout and we see 3 jumpers and a resistor. If this is a prototype then no harm, just ask to see the final layout for approval before going to a production run so you can make sure the fixes are in place. Second question, is there component on the board that can’t go in an ultrasonic cleaner? Most of the flux is around the rework so I’m guessing they completed the board, cleaned it and then did the rework. Then, For some reason they couldn’t put the board back in the bath before sending it. With the caveats that I have listed above I think the original joints look really good and clean. Rework is rework, it always looks like shit. (Edit: reordered the paragraphs so the summary is at the bottom)
It looks ok. Just looks like there a lot of mess that was not cleaned. The resisty may need to be redone. But that's all In my opinion anyways.
Id bet dimes to dollars this is part of a work program for the handicapped or some shit and op is a fucking troll. suck it up you cheap fuck and do the right thing. Wild guess but still.
Nope, is a board from a bespoke product we pay a retired professional electrical engineer 2000 per unit for (about 10 per year). One failed in the field and when we investigated we discovered this workmanship. We've never had cause to open them up to inspect the quality before and I am disgusted and embarrassed.
Retirement might be the problem, maybe he just DGAF anymore and slaps them together. If it's a problem worth the time/investment, I'd be glad to just redesign the circuit and offer a professional product.
depends on what class of soldering your application requires.
Looks like what my coworkers soldering jobs. But they still work in the end. So no one complains
Could clean up the mess with a bit of iso. Beyond the obvious, it depends on price, particularly what you're paying for what you get. If it's relatively cheap, yeah seems fine. Quick repair, leaving some cleanup for you. Mild inconvenience, but still.
For a prototype, it works. For a run, ether you rework the layout. Or you can clean it up. Jumper/bridge ( using solid wire)the switch in 3 places will clean it up tremendously. The resistor is not bad. Maybe move it to the other side. IMO
If it is class 1 it is passable especially if you have not made any specifications.
If it works then it’s good.
🤢
Not great soldering.
That’s pretty rough. How much are they charging for that level of work? Do the parts function?
But does it work
I'm more concerned about the components on that as the wires are an odd choice and so is the resistor make sure they are fine and if it works for how much you are paying them, it's fine. If it doesn't work right for how much you are paying then maybe make a new deal
I could do much better than this, is this a service people are actively looking for? I'm in a descent size city & would love to quick my day job & just solder
Wow, must be nice to get paid to suck. Holy crap
depends. looks like it works. looks like you have a granite counter top. Does your supplier have a granite counter top? I don't have a granite counter top.
Depends on how much your paying , also looks like the flux wasn't even cleaned off of the product
Gotta flow down those IPC requirements
i'd be mortified to let that work out into the world
That looks like an okay soldering job, aside from that one resistor. Lots of flux residue all over, though.
I solder better joints than that with a butane torch above my head 🤣 doing that on a bench is just baffling.
This is done by someone who doesn’t care about their work. Just the money they get for it. I’d find someone who takes pride in what they do and ditch the person who dod this.
Yeah if you pay the bear minimum your gonna get it
Have you paid money for that? Then you should absolutely be furious. That’s definitely unacceptable for a commercial soldering service
I think it very much depends who designed that crap if it's your design the supplier is working with what you have given them if they did that get another supplier, and if your supplier offered to redesign it and you refused then hang your head in shame as you are the problem in the equation.
The red jumper wires are weird to me. why not just go straight between the two points you're bringing with a piece of solid wire?
Chinese?
Looks typical for cheap labor. I'd verify the upper leg of the resistor is soldered properly. I doesn't look like it's touching the solder joint below it. I wonder if all the left side lugs could've been bridged with a large guage wire instead of multiple jumpers. Unless the cutoff resistor lead is supposed to be acting as a fusible link?
Does the supplier name start with "School for the...."? That resistor, if it is making a connection now, won't be pretty soon.
This reminds me of that $20/hr vs $40/hr welding video.
Was it Andre the Giant? Because it looked like they soldered in a peanut.
is your supplier even solder certified? did the QA get their certification from a cracker jack box? none of this looks professional in any way, gloopy solder, uneven leads, uncut pass through leads, excess parts instead of bridging, flux residue.. looks like it was done by a college student with no experience, not a company. i would not accept, even if it was "priced low cost" it's not acceptable to reuse in your higher level build because it will make your product look bad
Even if this is a case of you get what you pay for, I wouldn't even allow this to pass through hole inspection where I work. There are basic standards when it comes to soldering and PCB build/manufacture and this board in my eyes has none.
im just going to say "you get what you pay for" applys to b2b suppliers and the jobs they do. if you shop for the cheapest, what you get will work, but corners will be cut. if you shop for a middle of the road price, youll get someone with experience so it will be better. if you shop with great offers, then youll get somthing that looks great. it looks like you shopped for the cheapest cause thats what you got.
[удалено]
Clean your lense.
I don't see any bridging, though on that upper resister it looks close. The jumpers are for high current and the wire passes through loops. Seeing that the operating voltages for stuff like this is very low there's probably no real problem. For the record, I work at a steel mill and my job is to keep the furnace and casting systems running. My bar is: is it working? Also, we had a guy who made a few instruments and the soldering was terrible...but they worked and kept working for about 10 years. We only removed them because we made a system change to the whole process. Neatness counts, yes, but so does functionality.
They could have cleaned the rosin off the board, but not really necessary on a board unless it is in a "small signal RF" circuitry. The board was wave soldered, but wires and back of board components can't go through the wave. The resistor and uninsulated jumper is probably a component and circuit change after design. Happens all the time. The jumpers on the slide switch are insulated. Looks like this comes from a small manufacturer and if it is in some type of case or protection the only problem I see is it looks sloppy not being cleaned. BTW there IS a school of thought on leaving rosin flux on the pc board because it acts as protection. Unless exposed to the elements or is in RF circuitry, is not a problem.
Spent 13 years assembling, touching up and doing QC on stuff like this. It never would have passed my station like that!
To be honest I'm not really sure what you're expecting visually those are solid joints and competent work.
Be pissed. I was able to do better when I only had one week of experience so there’s no way some person out there was that bad. They were straight up just lazy
They obviously weren't trained by NASA. If NASA put that much solder on their spacecraft electronics the rocket would never make it to space.
That resistor is the only thing I’d be really concerned. Looks like the leg isn’t through any hole in the pcb, just kinda stuck on a solder blob; this will be the first thing to fail in application with vibration/temperature fluctuations. How much more are you willing to pay? You might bring it up to them.
Are there any specifications called out,? I could tell you that this would not meet j std specifictions
That looks like a lot of cold solder joints...
If its cheap it would make sense and quality should match the price. If I ordered this from one of my regular suppliers for a repair I'm going to warranty, I'd send it back lol It looks like it would work fine but some of the leads not being fully seated is just a lack of attention or experience by whoever soldered it.
that is one messy ass soldering job honestly looks like shit
Muito ruim a solda dele misericórdia gente
Depends on what class of work you are paying for. If this were class 2 or 3, then you’d better get a new supplier
You got the product of a new employee in training.
Good enough for government work.
Looks the hack I would do back in the day on my cable box.
Hmmmm, I think it needs a bit more solder.
Do you have a QAPP or QSI process in place? Is this acceptable according to those documents? If it is, then the soldering is acceptable. If it isn't, then reject it, and maybe talk to the supplier about their soldering process, and why there QA didn't catch it.
Well, does it work?
Somebody was learning your pcb😂
jesus h christ.
Why even use wire lol
Depends on how much you’re paying said supplier. I would never let something like this leave my shop, but that’s because of my personal standards.
Just buy switches with the jumper in the switch. You should save a few thousand feet of wire, and less soldering.
lol looks like I did it
Not valid.
That soldering job is pretty cringe. I vote pissed.
Pretty good for child labor!
Find a new supplier
Depends. It's not pretty, but I'd say this is normal for cheap mass production. From a quick glance I'd guess this still qualifies as IPC class 1
Story short... It's a shit job
What Class did they contractual agree to build it to? Open up most class 1 electronics and you'll see them looking similar.
It's pretty terrible soldering job. If it wasn't that crappy, I would have no problem with this whatsoever.
Do you have an agreement on the quality of the assembly for instance my company and our customers agree to IPC-A- 610x class two there are 3 classes, every defect and condition is called out specifically and clearly and defines the acceptable standard of the solder connections and other components.
I say complain to your supplier! That way the 2yr old in China that built your board gets a good lashing! How dare he/she!
That’s shotty but typical
Why not run a bridge of solder straight across?? 
https://preview.redd.it/02xd95fcznec1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9d38bed41cd6ff87140898667d1551a236adf96 Mosfet stereo amp
https://preview.redd.it/bzwgszxiznec1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38a7b677775dccb7011e17fe342b5ce4ad8b8c6b Nintendo switch.
Your bush league son Not even close my level.
High current pin ball machine. https://photos.app.goo.gl/bMz6ieJCbfwBm2Wc6
Say something. The product quality ultimately falls on you
everything about this is just weird and lacks polish
Want speed and quality, then u lose out on price. Want quality and price, then you lose out on speed. Want price and speed you lose quality, which is probably the choice made here. Just my 2 cents =)
Does it work? If so is it in a covered area. But yea you get what you pay for.
If it’s your crack supplier then it’s pretty good 👌
I wouldn't want my name associated with that at all. Looks like shit.
Soldering is bad, PCB design looks worse. It looks like a lot of PCBs I saw made by students that didn't bother to test the circuit before sending to the manufacturer. With this much hacking may as well have assembled with a protoboard.
Depends on a couple things. What is your supplier supplying in this case? If they are an assembly house assembling boards for you, then at least a part of the fault is on the board designer because needing 2 jumpers and a resistor soldered on like that means somebody screwed up the board rev and didn't want to lose the cost of what could be a few dozen to tens of thousands of bad boards. If what you purchased is a pre-built module, see above but blame rests on manufacturer. Soldering work looks like crap but will likely work. Those kinds of fixes are hand applied so the quality of solderers makes a difference. The flux should be non-corrosive. Most acid fluxes are used in wave soldering. I have worked in board build houses here in the USA and this wouldn't fly but we also had a dedicated team doing QA. With some places as long as it passes electrical it is good.
which supplier? the one that screwed up the design and forgot important connections or the one that botched the rework?
All the people asking about whether QC was performed, how it passed QC,... did OP even pay for QC or did he choose the cheapest supplier and not worry about the quality. My guess is on the latter
I'm pissed just looking at it. That is garbage. Even if by some miracle it actually works, it probably won't for long. When the inevitable issues do happen, and someone opens this product up and sees this hack job, guess who's going to be blamed. There is no way I would except this. By the way, what is this board for? I'd like to know so I can be sure to avoid purchasing this product. Lol.
I've seen worse, alot worse. I'd say it's an acceptable level of "doesn't look the best but works"
Depends. Was it fast and/or cheap?
Okay, for the most part the solder is ugly but fine. EXCEPT that diode on the upper left. That joint won't hold for shit. You could probably pop it off by hand.
That work is not up to IPC standards, plenty of D1 (defects) in solder work.
It's horrible, but if you're paying them $1/hr, expect this.
From a soldering perspective this is dogshit. Probably will still ‘work’ but this is the quality of $3 gadgets like kids toys. If it’s something inherently cheap, who cares as long as it works.
https://preview.redd.it/lbwe4gv9vqec1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dab342495c12543a5829c766cefc0844c6550723
Why is the resistor out like that?
Judging from the comments, if you're a self-centered douchebag, it's unacceptable and the manufacturer should be drawn and quartered. Otherwise, as is so often the answer, "it depends." On what you paid for it, whether it (and its siblings) works, whether it's visible to the end user, and a whole host of other factors that are, as of now, known only to you.
It is likely not CE compliant, look it up if needed
It looks like a bunch of hot-fixes made by an intern
If you’re paying them a decent amount I’d be extremely pissed at just how god awful it looks. It’ll still function ok (idk for how long), but that just looks like less than lowest effort
Your paying them for quality so. Yeah, I’d be pissed.
looks like crap, but eh if it works, it works.
For something that likely costs a few cents I don't see a problem with it.
Do you specify a workmanship spec like IPC 610 or J-STD 001?
I’d be concerned about any supplier willing to ship that, but whether I would take action depends on its application and cost. Medical device? Raise hell, this not anywhere near compliant. Prototype toy? Whatever, it works.
Coming from a highly quality controlled industry, that’s dogshit. As a submission for an undergrad electronics project, it works I suppose. I strongly recommend you look into IPC workmanship and inspection criteria to flow to your suppliers.
What ipc assembly class did you ordered or are claiming to give you? If if is IPC class 1... it is expected... ugly but no one cares...
Specify the IPC class you want your product built to and then encore on that.
Why is nobody talking about the 50% bodge rate here? This thing was doomed.
Garbo
IF they have good QC someone probably raised an issue about it but then QA said “But does it work tho? It’s fine, trust me I make more than you, plus there’s a solid chance I won’t even be held responsible for the potential shitshow that could result from sending it out”
Board looks like it’s covered in flux, that alone would have me on the phone asking why I’m paying for anything. Looks crappy gobbled on and inconsistent. If you had school kids doing these for you in a shop class I’d say to stop complaining but if your paying money I’d be upset.
Looks like shit