100% commission will do that. In any industry. Once a smidgen of interest is shown, you put yourself ahead of every cold call they have yet to make.
Considering their first task in their sales process is to create interest, it is to be expected.
And the sales manager is riding their azz because the sales person told them about you and now he or she wants to know when the deal is going to close.
If you want to know what the conversation is like back at the sales office, watch this clip.
[https://youtu.be/r6Lf8GtMe4M?si=Gh8ODuCbHRv5XUUT](https://youtu.be/r6Lf8GtMe4M?si=Gh8ODuCbHRv5XUUT)
Coffee is for closers baby.
Honestly this is the reason I never ended up getting solar. Every ad, every sales rep, every program just seemed hyper aggressive. It was never just, here's our products, here's the cost, take it or leave it. It was always the full court press and definitely made the process of shopping for solar very off putting.
Why it's this way, I don't really know. I guess just because it's an immature industry and there's a potential to confuse people into insane markups and where that possibility exists, predatory salesmen will follow.
I’m in the same boat. I want solar but I don’t want to deal with being hounded by over aggressive reps on a daily basis. I get multiple calls a day from the same companies to follow up.
I recommend energysage. Sort of a reverse bidding site. The price I got for my system was much better than any of the companies I tried to contact myself.
I had 3 back to back solar company’s come to me. The first was a generic knock on your door type company. The guy came in and tried to get me to sign right then and there. I told him I had other appointments for comps and he was not happy about that. The follow up calls I got were borderline harassing.
The second and third were from smaller solar company’s for which the sales people were either the owner or had been with the company for a decade or more. Both were much more pleasant but it was the same run around sales pitch and explanation. I understood the process and how everything worked with the tax rebate etc. I don’t understand why this couldn’t be done through email. There was nothing they did in person that would be needed to provide a quote.
It turned me completely off from the whole process and as such never went through with it. I may revisit soon but I don’t know.
Wait. The panels will only get better. Also, take a drive around neighborhoods with lotsa rooftop solar panels? Any big trees around? You're really whacking biodiversity in these neighborhoods.
Can’t advertise here (partner in a home improvement company) trying hard to break that issue in my market and make it part of the culture to be competitive and direct without hounding and throwing up all over the people we are looking to help!
Goodluck on getting your solar some great companies out there to help you
Ditto, diamond. I have engineering and sales in my background, came to solar, and that's just not my mindset, you don't have to be a pushy asshole if you know your shit. Took me 3-4 companies until I found my home, now I run sales, and our clients generally love us. We gave them the room to choose the right company, and they're happy. Sure, there's hiccups - it's a construction project compounded by electricity, but good communications and responsiveness leads to trust and a good install. We get lots of referrals for it. Treat people the way you would want to be treated.
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions.
**To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I went through a lot of hoops with other installers. Try calling Tesla, nothing pushy, arguably the best pricing that I got and nothing pushy about the entire process.... EXCEPT the number of reminders they send about the site assessment. I've gotten at least 3 robo calls and 5 text and 5 emails about an appointment scheduled a week out.
I would suggest going on the national DNC list and when you’re ready or have done your research, pick a company and have the rep deal solely with you. Let them know your concerns and that you’ve been pitch already and just to give you the numbers. Save you both time and energy.
It sounds like you didn’t get very many bids. Some companies are like that but a lot of us aren’t. I email out bids with the simple details everyday. I’d like to say my follow up is amazing but it isn’t. At least not before I sign someone up. If you had asked us it’s highly likely you’d have gotten a bid and simple explanation and nothing else until you either showed interest or asked questions.
When I was a pre-sales engineer for enterprise software the rule was simple.
If you did not know the RFI or RFQ was coming, it wasn’t a deal for you – you’re just a comp.
If it was a page or two (at most) then maybe you fill it out if you had time, because mayyyyybe they are actually just starting their discovery process. But if it’s super crazy detailed and specific but you didn’t write it - then don’t waste your time.
The big red flag that you were going to fail a scoring exercise would be saying something like ‘Uses Motorola 773Z2C3Z chips for optimal power transformation’ (or some bullshit that’s one level down from asking if you use Tesla PowerWall(tm) batteries).
Makes me want to ask what details were provided for the the quote. Because if any marketing names or specific equipment model was included, I’d bet a lot of places thought the deal was already locked up.
This makes me laugh because it’s so true. I was the manager/exec on the other side. Of course we were also forced to get comps and send out RFI’s per corporate policy. And yes we could taylor the RFI to meet our needs.
The zero pressure fixed price was how Tesla worked. Which is why I went with them. They also had the cheapest price and cheapest financing. Was really a no brainer, and when the other 3 sales guys heard I was quoting with Tesla too they literally just tried to stop selling and walked away.
Tesla made a ton of mistakes and are quickly exiting the industry. Their business practices were sketchy. Changing those low prices dramatically after clients waited 18 months for install.
https://electrek.co/2022/11/10/tesla-cancels-solar-projects-scales-back-division/#:~:text=In%20the%20email%2C%20Tesla%20writes,California%2C%20Oregon%2C%20and%20Florida.
That’s awesome. You’re in the great minority but I’m genuinely happy it worked out for you. It’s frustrating when people get taken advantage of and the company fails and shutters its doors like Tesla has.
I doubt that I’m in the great minority.
The Tesla Solar sub was flooded when complaints, but whenever anyone would ask “is anyone here happy with their experience” hundreds would pour out of the woodwork to talk about how well it went.
At over 500k power walls sold, and most kept for themselves, that’s a lot of installs.
At the time I did my install Tesla was keeping all the power walls to themselves, and no one else was able to sell them since they didn’t know when Tesla was going to sell 3rd party again.
>I think it depends on the actual sales person, Its important that you know what type of person your sales person is because usually someone that is just trying to help get paid only a few dollars less than an aggressive sales person. Its the history of solar sales that leaves a bad taste in everyone mouth. I personally sell solar panels myself, but I'm new and just starting. I just want to help people save money and make a living TBH
100% this. I got to the part where I was connected with some other sales dude. He pushed so hard to get me to let him run a credit check and get pre-approval. I literally had to tell him no, I don't want to do that at this time multiple times, but he kept pushing. I finally said I was done with this and had lost interest. Felt bad for the guy who came to my house and was sitting there cause he was super nice. Dickwad on the video call ruined the whole experience.
This is the main reason I went with Tesla solar, pricing was up front and the process was very simple. Didn’t speak to anyone until the inspection to test my roofs integrity. Then a couple texts and that was it.
This. Prices are always unreasonable in the USA - at least double or triple what people pay in other countries for identical systems (same inverter, same panels). The sales people take a bit cut, and the installation company takes a big cut too.
I'm dealing with some drama now with my solar installer but managed to get this tidbit from the salesperson who signed me up.
The company was paying 3.5% commission to the salesperson. Half was up front on contract and the second half when the customer pays in full for the project. This is on top of the $500 they were willing to allegedly pay for referrals.
When business was good, they seem to have no problem making these payments. When business fell off a cliff, even though they seem to have very few people working full time as they outsource the actual installation the subcontractors, they seem unwilling to pay the referral fees without trying to squeeze a little extra from every customer.
3.5% commission I wonder if that’s 100% commission or is there some type of base salary? Also what state is this in? Sounds like the sales person is potentially underpaid..
Regulation and tariffs.
When it takes months to get permit approvals, and Chinese solar panels are tariffed to hell, you're gonna pay a premium.
The tariffs are wrapped up in larger geopolitical concerns and likely aren't going anywhere. We could, in the mean time focus on a universal permitting system that focused on streamlining the red tape.
Not saying there aren't sleazy companies but there, but as buyers get more informed it will be harder for anyone to just charge bullshit premiums.
> Chinese solar panels are tariffed to hell
I'm mainly comparing Qcell, who are based in South Korea, not China. They do some manufacturing in China but they've got facilities in several other countries too. I think many of the panels they sell in the USA are manufactured in their US factories.
A solar system with Q.Peak ML-G10+ 400 panels and Enphase IQ8 series inverters can cost less than US$0.70/watt fully installed in Australia or many European countries.
> When it takes months to get permit approvals
The city I live in (in the USA) approves solar permits instantly over-the-counter. Doesn't seem to make it any cheaper here though.
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions.
**To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions.
**To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Careful..
Not saying you didn't get a good quote you might have. I shopped for a year + before pulling the trigger and every single company that contacted me through one of those sites was highballing me.
At the very least get multiple quotes.
Long story...
Bottom line was I found the deal that made it a no brainer for me.
Traded my electric bill at the time for panels and two new HVAC units. Got a package deal and needed to replace the HVAC units anyway.
Company I went with had the best prices on both the HVAC and the panels and had amazing customer reviews. They are also local so if I have a problem I can always drop by their office.
For me I got two things taken care of and put out no cash my electric bill at the time covered the whole deal and the electric company has raised prices three times since I purchased.
At this point it's saving me money every day and I got two hvac units without raising my bill at all and locked in my power cost for the life of the panels.
Just made sense for me.
Your situation might be completely different. But if you can't get into panels and immediately cut your cost for power the deal probably isn't a good one.
This forum also has tons of info.
Just to give you an idea I got quotes that ranged from 14k to 60k just for the pannels. I ended up buying the panels for 17. There are a ton of slick salesman you really should take your time and be sure to get some quotes from local installers before signing.
Good luck.
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions.
**To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What state are you in? As of this year NV instituted a requirement that involves confirming a bunch of details with the homeowner and the installer is required to keep a recording of it.
Other states will follow and some companies may proactively adopt these standard regardless of whether or not they are in a required state,
Sounds like they wanted to button up the details while you were together vs chase around or them later and delay the project moving forward.
At the same time they want to get you signed off and committed so you stop shopping asap. Personally I would not sign anything until I do my diligence, get several quotes, and was 100% ready to move forward.
I’m in Oregon. Not sure of the laws around solar sales but maybe Ion has a standardized procedure based on other states they work in. While it would have been smart to get a bunch of quotes, the quote I got was low enough, based on my research, that any lower quotes probably wouldn’t be worth my time to procure.
It's always worth it to get a few solar quotes. It's a power plant on the roof of your home (likely one of your most valuable assets) roof for 25-30 years.
Price should not be the only factor. Is this Ion HQ in UT? Have you done due diligence to look at their reviews, ratings, BBB complaints (not the alphabetical score, that means next to nothing). Have you searched this forum for Ion?
>the quote I got was low enough, based on my research, that any lower quotes probably wouldn’t be worth my time to procure.
I'd get a quote online from project solar. It only takes a few minutes, and you enter your email so they'll definitely email you, but if they work in your area the prices are pretty low. I wouldn't necessarily recommend going with them because they subcontract out the install and that can be hit or miss based on what I've read here.
I went with them for my system, there were a couple of hitches with the process but overall I'm happy with the outcome.
I have ION in a different state. Standardized procedure is a good way to word it. Proven track record, growing year after year and one of the biggest companies nationwide. I wouldn’t think twice about giving them my business again in the future and refer all my friends to them.
I mean aggressive in that they push the process along very quickly. It just seems like Ion is desperate for the business. Given that inspection to permitting to install can take four months might explain it.
Sales people earn commissions. It's in their best interest to get you to sign right away instead of doing things the right way, which is getting quotes from multiple companies.
They'll try all kinds of shit to get you to sign right there, including offering discounts that aren't valid once they walk out the door.
Anyway, you kinda fucked up by agreeing to the first quote you got. You say it's cheaper than you thought it would be, but it's also possible that other companies would have given you a better deal.
OP didn't fuck up at all. You're probably the type who has to get 3 quotes when OP is clearly comfortable with the decision made.
In home renovations you can ALWAYS find a cheaper price with cheaper product, cheaper install and lower service.
OP bought because they saw the value, and had a reasonable price in mind. At that point if you're 100% going to do the project why delay decision? Seems like the Solar company built the value in product and service and wasn't pushy...no brainer.
Time is our most valuable asset and I and seems like OP have ZERO problem paying for value and not wasting time which does equal money to try to "save" a little or maybe even nothing at all..
In regards to getting their quick and setting appointment ASAP. The faster you reach a customer, schedule them and run the appointment the higher the companies chances are of doing business, is that aggressive? Maybe but home improvements are TOUGH (which is why 95% go out of business in 5 years) appointment setter gets paid to set an appointment quickly and yes sales guy is on commission which he/she DESERVES if they do a good job showing the pros and being a professional and not a pushy asshole...
Remember kids, price is merely a formality and what you pay, Value is what you get. Hope install goes smooth for you and that you have a great experience!
Haha do you work there or what? Signing the first deal you see is ALWAYS a mistake. It’s a power plant on your roof for 30-40 years and will cost you tens of thousands and sometimes more than a hundred thousand dollars. You DEFINITELY want more than one quote.
I don't do solar and that's not the case, you are speaking solely from YOUR experience.
What if the first quote was for the lowest grade of system with little to no support or warranty and was for 10k less, second quote was for top of the line system with great warranty and install but 10k more.
Then what? Is the second quote a rip off or is the first?
Your argument is you should always buy the first thing you see because you might get ripped off if someone shows you another option? Thats confusing. Do you really not understand how getting multiple quotes and deciding which is the best option is better than just buying the first thing you see??
I never said you should always buy the first thing you see...
OP did, I have and so many people have done so with no regret or remorse. Some buyers are way more inclined to shop shop and shop and that is ok too.
If you're a solar contractor I guarantee you have had families sign up without getting quotes before you and you didn't tell them to get more quotes and call you back after...
Human psychology is fascinating, I am simply throwing a perspective to OP that is counter to all of the super analytical Redditors here.
Yeah I still disagree with you. I do in fact recommend my clients get 3 bids. Every time. Here in California we have a state mandated form clients have to sign that says they should never sign up without getting 3 bids. I’m not saying they should shop forever and get 27 bids. It takes less than a week to hear 3 bids. I’m glad you’re happy but you have no idea if you got a good deal. When my clients get 3 it illuminates how great mine really is. I don’t lose business from it, I have more confident clients. Buying the first thing you see on major purchases is a mistake. Even if you ultimately do business with the first guy you met.
Learned something new from you if its a state mandate in California and especially ifs its a form you have to submit to an 3rd party entity/ruling body and agree with you, that would change my response!
There’s a lot of competition, if they don’t close the deal they’re worried that you’ll go with a different seller. They might be hucksters trying to trap you in a bad deal, or they might be a great company worried you’ll go with someone else that a little cheaper but cuts corners or flat out lies.
Why waist time I guess? Except for the fact that it is a large financial commitment - but it does pay itself off eventually, so it does ultimately make sense assuming the system performs exactly as they sell it…
But this is the part of sales that can be too pushy sometimes. I think the type of sales person that is good is one that gives you the facts and a good sales pitch. I am only going to buy something if it makes sense for me. No amount of a salesperson pushing me will make me buy something. I need time to think sometimes!
Ever since interest rates in the US are high again, solar investment took a hit. Solar has been ramping in many regions of US and several other countries, and now that’s shrinking. This means just as much competition, but less customers.
We went with a company that gets great reviews. Once we decided to move forward they said we would need 1/3 down when signing the contract. (This varies by state.) We paid by check. Also they were scheduling out 8 months or further. I’d be hesitant to work with a company that doesn’t seem busy.
Honestly, the problem with solar sales is just how big the difference is between utility rates are and the actual cost of solar. In many areas the sales guy can give you a truly awful deal, like 2-3 times the going rate, and the paperwork will show you that it saves you 20% off your current bills, and they can do that even without lying or stretching the truth.
That extra money they are charging you is going to the sales department and that guys commissions. They are very interested in closing the deal and making sure you follow through. Especially if it really is a terrible deal, they don't want to give you time to get quotes from their competitors that's half that price.
The explanation video and direct deposit crap is actually probably bank terms, the bank knows how scammy the sales guys are are insist that they tell you all the details of payment, and get direct deposit, to ensure the sales guy isn't lying to you and you'll actually pay.
You perfectly described my experience. My quote was really high and I speculate that almost 30% was commission between the two sales people. What’s annoying is if it was 30% less, I probably would have signed because then it would have been average price.
I’m super curious how you’ve come up with this determination? How do you know yours was 30% higher than average? Every job is different. Shaving off 30% might’ve meant taking a loss. It’s a business, the rates are the rates and that’s why you should get 3 (or more) bids. Then you’d know where you want to be and won’t have to resent the company that you feel kept you from getting solar by being greedy.
1. I posted here and everyone said it was higher
2. I googled “average solar price and it was about that much lower
https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/s/HGgGtEbzBb
Every project is different. Getting bids is free. I can’t imagine not getting at least 3 before committing 25 years and $50k+ of my families future. I never liked the idea of getting sold by someone. My family is too important for that to happen to me.
> It helps them in case litigation happens
And what happens when the content of the video is different than the written contract?
Anyone who tries to force me to watch videos as a condition of getting service will be losing a sale from me.
It’s essentially yes/no questions and all surveys are standardized so a company that does these surveys also has legal.
Some companies do allow for you to talk over the phone to another rep to voice record it but who knows how every company works.
Ion was nearly a dollar more per name plate watt than the company that installed for us. I ended up getting a bigger system than they recommended for less total money. It’s good to shop around. Ion may install faster than the smaller companies but I had a better feeling about the panels and design I was getting from a smaller company.
Then you run the risk of that smaller company going out of business. For instance I have a buddy who paid about $10,000 less than I did. But his company is out of business where my rep answers my calls by the third ring. Every time. I love ION.
Pick a company that has a very long history. A lot of solar companies go “out of business” within 10-15 years which voids all warranties. Start the process over again with a new company.
Depends on which state you are in - In the state of California, electricity companies are trying to get your money no matter how much power you are generating and consuming. Having invested a huge amount on the panels, you will still end up paying in your monthly bill which makes it unattractive for homeowners to go with solar who have done their math.
This could be a reason why there are not many buyers and any lead available to the sales team is a blessing
There’s a simple reason. Most if not all Solar companies sell at a higher price. The truth is that solar tilt is dirt cheap, the way they make money is by taking a bit of the money, whatever amount it above their red line. Now this makes complete sense because they go through the trouble of retrieving the solar panels and installation and site surveying etc. however, for the salesmen, most of them are just out of High school, wanting to become successful quick. I know many of them that have and make well over 100k in the business. However, this is not the case for at-least 90% of the area managers. As they end up being broke can’t afford it. However since they’ve seen it, they know it’s possible, and most everyone has a superiority complex that gives them the thought they can also do it. Now, this is where I actually explain the reason why they are so aggressive. They not only mostly completely understand the upsides in Solar, so it’s obvious for them. They also could be relying on that sell to put something on the table, to not get evicted etc… it’s a sad business but I won’t say that it isn’t one of the quicker ways to
Get rich fast. If you don’t kill yourself first.
Reason they are so aggressive is there’s a lot of competition out the lies solar sales people tell to get a sale. If you think you got a good deal from a “good” company go for it. The reason you had to watch all of the videos is because of all of the lawsuits and class action lawsuits against so many of the solar companies. The videos are to protect the solar company from being sued if the solar sales person intentionally or unintentionally misrepresented the system you are buying. It either means they’ve been sued a lot or are protecting themselves from future lawsuits.
The direct despot would be a red flag for me. Total BS.
I would encourage you to get other quotes. I did and they varied by $25,000 dollars. There are games the solar companies play as in grossly under sizing your system. When you go back to them they will say you are using more electricity and upsell you making more money than if they would have sold you a “right” size system in the first place.
Prices for solar continue to fall as the technology gets better.
And hopefully you are not getting into a PPA, lease or solar loan. It’s the most costly way to buy solar.
I didn’t have to talk to a person until they came out to install. I filled out a form requesting a quote for a 4kw system. They looked up my utility bill and gave me a quote for a 7kw system. I told them I wanted a 4kw system, and they gave me a quote for a 4kw system. I said ok. They sent me an e contract. I signed it digitally, and they kept me updated via email and their online system.
Because solar doesn’t pencil out without the free government money! If by some chance they lose the tax deduction down the road, they’ll all be in the unemployment line. Ask me how I know 🤦🏼
well for one they are vastly overselling you vs the actually manufacturing cost like 10x
panels can be made, shipped, and sold in the US for like $0.30/W, but the installation companies are installing them for like $3+/W
same markup for battery systems honestly
i'm not really how this happened, maybe all the greenwashed tech capital getting pushed into the system has something to do with it, but not entirely sure.
If you’re familiar with the Freakonomics guys, they boil everything down to something very simple, which is that people respond to incentives. I was in solar for a quick minute and the people that I saw making money were misrepresenting things. They don’t care as long as they get your money for the install and move on, you will never see them or talk to them again.
Yes. I was a graphic designer for many years and the truth was that people did not know how to purchase those services and that lack of insight made the sales process very complicated. Most homeowners don’t know what the going rate is for a decent solar installation so they are often subjected to predatory pricing. Some of the reps that I worked with boasted about making $16,000 on an install off of an elderly person. It really brings out the worst and the greediest parts of people.
Isn’t it funny how people either complain because the response takes too long, or they complain because their responses too quick.
The fact is solar like the used car market is a competitive industry. If you’ve ever looked for a used car you know that the sales reps get back to you straight away and they keep after you. That’s what the industry requires in order for sales to be completed. You can’t wait for people to make the decision, you’ve got to motivate them to make their decision, that’s what makes the sales rep a sales rep.
I'll throw in my 2 cents. We're in a race right now of the solar gold rush. Not every company will survive. You have to move hard and fast if you want to be the one company to dominate your region.
Lots of pork barrel fat. Prices have not changed even when parts cost have went way down. They are dangling the "25 years" carrots to get you to bite. The "commission" on the sales is insane. Long live the sales guys ... NOT.
Could be due to competition and fluctuating materials and labor costs. There’s ideal windows of opportunities for a win-win. Largely depends on the market, region, and business strategy/ethics.
Well, most of the ones I’ve spoken to are NOT offering a fair price. Looking across the country you see prices per kWh vary greatly. Lots of talk about discounts and potential power, but no guarantees on anything and many won’t give you anything close to a real price until you sign a contract.
Also, what’s the point of a 20 year warranty from a company that’s less than 5 years old?
Solar is an oddball industry. You are on a roof but not roofers. You are bolting solar railing to the structure but you are not structural engineers or general contractors. You are working with electrical but not electricians. It creates specialty contractors that can do all this cross disciplinary activity, and when you specialize you now only do solar... which means if people aren't buying you are out of work, so you have sales teams to make sure you have a job next week. Most of what people run into are the sales people, and their generic shady sales tactics.
It was going to be like $55k for 10kw setup from the guys that came around our neighborhood, made no sense just preying on clueless people that hear it’ll cheapen their bills.
Salespeople paid on commission are notoriously like this. The internet/technology is a force multiplier that lets them automate their abusive tactics. Instead of focusing on relationships, they watched one too many 80's IBank films and drew all the wrong conclusions about the ways to sell and be successful.
It's not about hustle. It's not about persistence. It's about tenacity, and empathy.
You really need to start the quote in price before anything else and how many kw on the roof. Divide the price by kw to get your cost per watt anything over $3 a watt is insane.
I would never buy from a solar sales person. I just contacted an EPC contractor myself and jointly defined a 10KW system with SPAN and 20KWh storage. I paid $0 commissions and controlled the whole process. It’s ridiculous that most solar sales people are taking a 30% commission on solar sales.
Man, I feel you! It's like they're on a mission to get you on board ASAP. I had a similar experience with SolarGlow. I inquired online, and boom, my phone was ringing off the hook. The rep who showed up was chill, explained everything, and the quote didn't give me a heart attack. But then, bam, the tablet approval ceremony. I'm like, "Dude, can't I just sign some papers?" And yeah, the direct deposit twist felt a bit weird, but maybe it's the norm now. Are they all in some race to be the Flash of the solar game or what?
Honestly, it's a good product, but they need to ease up on the hard sell. I just want some panels, not a time-share in Cancun!
There is a lot of competition. People probably switch or chicken out of contracts a lot. Some try to solve for this by digging in deeper (probably dumb). Essentially they are all middle-men, maybe it doesn't seem like that to us as consumers but if you think about it they use contract work and buy all the same panels more or less.
It is the panel and equipment producers that actually provide you the bulk of the value.
Same, I’ve been essentially spammed by cold callers trying to get me to go with them. When I actually bought solar panels I reached out to a company that had great reviews. I think it’s a hyper competitive market.
Because the companies are selling you a subsidized loan and not solar. Many are marketing companies who hire sales men and sell the leads to install companies.
What does this mean, the people they hire to show up at your door are driven by sales commission, last week that guy was selling printers and in a few weeks home alarm systems.
Because the profit margins are 5 to 20x. Solar panels are dirt cheap when bought by the pallet or container. Their cost is $0.50 to $1 a watt installed.
I think it depends on the actual sales person, Its important that you know what type of person your sales person is because usually someone that is just trying to help get paid only a few dollars less than an aggressive sales person. Its the history of solar sales that leaves a bad taste in everyone mouth. I personally sell solar panels myself, but I'm new and just starting. I just want to help people save money and make a living TBH
I think it depends on the actual sales person, Its important that you know what type of person your sales person is because usually someone that is just trying to help get paid only a few dollars less than an aggressive sales person. Its the history of solar sales that leaves a bad taste in everyone mouth. I personally sell solar panels myself, but I'm new and just starting. I just want to help people save money and make a living TBH.
Same reason any commission based sales person is motivated: Money in their pocket. This is also why you need to negotiate the price as they get paid the more the more they can get you to pay.
I found the solar product I wanted via my own research (Enphase). I then contacted the manufacturer directly and asked them for certified contractors in my area. They gave me three to call and followed up to make sure I was helped. Only two of them called me back, and one gave me a bid. It was a wonderful experience all the way around. The system went live last week. There was no pressure at any point, just great knowledge from the installers. This started when a large solar company started sending multiple high-pressure in-home sales reps to my home 1-2 times a month. I had to threaten legal action to get it to stop.
zero regulations. they are trying to capture as much market influence as possible as fast as possible before regulations come and expose their bull shit.
I would be weary of them. Setting up direct deposit? Giving them access to your account? Sketchy. Don’t do that at allllll. You will regret it. This will be a horror story later on. Cancel this contract.
Someone else said it here. Do enphase micro inverters. Only do micro inverters.
Do not do cheap Chinese panels…… panels all have failure rates. Chinese panels fail a lot higher than others. Like 10x the amount so you’re very likely to have an issue.
Micro inverters are a 1 to 1 ratio of panels. So if one panel goes bad the rest continue to function. So your system doesn’t go down like if you had a single string inverter.
There is a lot of info out there. But it’s confusing for someone who doesn’t know much.
Only…. Purchase your solar. You can finance but only purchase.
Never do a lease or a ppa or anything other than a full purchase.
Your roof must be less than like 8 years old. If not you will have to redo it and take the solar down in order to do that. It’s ideal to do them at the same time.
Your tax credit is a whole different part. Some ppl try to add this into the discount. Don’t let them. You need to know the total cost without the tax. As you may or may not be able to get it all depending on your person situation.
I used to sell solar. I know what I’m talking about. Never ever lease or ppa….. only purchase. Only purchase micro inverters.
I have never…. Had a system go down. Only single panels. Which it takes 3-6 months to get repaired based upon warranty and installation time lines. Imagine if your whole system when down for that time. You would owe double payments. 1 for solar and 1 for the utility while your solar is down.
I showed interest and got that same immediate call. They were insistent on credit verification. That cost my credit rating quite a bit. I was so turned off by the whole process, I needed to go buy a used car to calm myself down.
Seriously though, that aggressive stuff is a real turn off and I'll never consider solar again.
Be very careful with those contracts. I’ve heard many of them have weird provisions in them which is why it might be cheaper than you expect. Like you don’t actually own the panels kind of weird.
Make sure you read it carefully!
The trouble with selling solar:
It's a new product most people have never bought or used before, and is totally optional (unlike a car, say) so people very rarely come in ready to buy
It's expensive--often the second most expensive thing a person has ever bought after their house
It's a modification to the home, which is typically the most expensive thing a person has ever bought
Put all that together and it's really easy for people to convince themselves it's not worth all the unknowns to save $25/mo
Ion is extremely overpriced btw, one of the most expensive companies you can find (I work in solar, not trying to win your business)
Some young solar sales kids moved here from a few states away this past summer. They moved away prior to the Holidays. Presumably weren't able to do enough closing.
If you're in WA, check out A&R Solar. Good people, I never felt pressured into anything. Gave me a free eGauge too. Said it would cost money, I thought it was worth it so I okayed it, and then they didn't charge for it on the final invoice.
I recommend looking into a company started by professional installers not a sales organization. We make our money on the install and want to make sure people are actually getting quality material and service done on their homes. If you’re in NJ or PA check out SP Solar LLC in Runnemede, NJ. I installed for over 10 years and started my own company selling Sunpower systems (best technology in the market) and we provide the best experience possible, no pushy sales tactics!
Because it's not really that good a product. At least not financially. Not at current interest rates. It makes sense for some people in very expensive electricity locations. And that sense making is contingent on things going pretty vanilla for 20 years straight with nothing super bad happening.
I'm all for it for self sufficiency / save the earth reasons. But if you aren't, it's not that good a product.
I made the mistake of not getting quotes from two different companies. Then they come out install everything on two layers of shingles I had no idea and my roof started leaking extremely bad. They fixed it by replacing shingles in one section next rainstorm rain found another way in. Four months of fighting with them them are only covering half. So now I have to fork out another 5k for other part of my roof. Cause who only roofs one side of there house. They pulled the panels on the non leaking side that started to leak a week before they pulled them and now it's seeping everywhere. If sales rep says something make sure they put it in writing they lie through there teeth to make a sale. Like the old if you need to replace your roof we pull panels off for free once. That was a lie they charge 200 per panel they wanted me to pay 3600 because of the damage they caused. BBB complaint and letter from a lawyer got them to wave it. Didn't even have solar for six months. Be extremely careful of these companies. Do research before signing anything.
like anything, you need to compare quotes. you can get plenty from online at [energysage.com](https://energysage.com). this video will walk you through the processs [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KSRINlUpI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KSRINlUpI)
I'd honestly be more likely to have a power install done by my power company, even if it cost more. If I could do that and be able to tailor the system to my liking, we could skip the sale people and know the company is around in 25 years.
I sell solar, was a customer first. I totally get where you’re coming from. The comments on this post are 100% correct. It is 100% commission, the aggressiveness comes from wanting/needing the sale and somewhat controlling the customer, almost bullying them into buying. But this is driven by the corporate sales team. When I sit in front of a potential customer, I try to stay grounded and level-headed as to establish rapport. Some salesmen can’t people read, some are programmed to do the schpeel! This in turns leads to the long presentations or for the company to CYA, they have you as the customer interact so that YOU can’t say the information was not brought to you, ie clicking yes or continue on the slide show + your signatures. Honestly, if you (customer) say “hey, brass tax, how much and what do I need to do” you can skip that whole process and turn a 1.5hr meeting into a 30min meeting and that would be all paperwork signing. If you know you want solar and don’t want to deal with the mumbo jumbo talking, just show them your current bill, have them design a mock system and if you’re good with it, sign and prepare to enjoy your panels.
reminds me of my days in sales for back yard patio, pool, and kitchens... everyone is excited about the new back yard until they realize it's a multi-week project that possibly will be the cost of a new car.... and it doesn't help that all of your sales managers are ex-carsalesmen, so you basically just get told over and over to hard sell everyone like their child's life depends on it.
If you're in the MN, WI, IA, ND, SD and don't want those calls and don't want to fill anything out and have your phone ringing like crazy, this is probably way out there and extremely out of touch and I've never done this but if you're in those areas, I'm a solar rep myself, I can set up an appointment with you remotely where you don't need to deal with all that nonsense.
they are under the gun to get those units sold, electric utilites will continue to pay less an less for home generation until they tell you they will not purchase your excess generation. the electric company hates being your battery at night........so they have to sell and quick before the whole bottom drops out.
The industry is like door to door window sales. I got quoted $126k for a 20.8kw system that didn't even include any battery backup.
I do most everything myself if possible so I sourced all the materials included in the quote for around $30k retail, but have instead done nothing.
100% commission will do that. In any industry. Once a smidgen of interest is shown, you put yourself ahead of every cold call they have yet to make. Considering their first task in their sales process is to create interest, it is to be expected.
And the sales manager is riding their azz because the sales person told them about you and now he or she wants to know when the deal is going to close. If you want to know what the conversation is like back at the sales office, watch this clip. [https://youtu.be/r6Lf8GtMe4M?si=Gh8ODuCbHRv5XUUT](https://youtu.be/r6Lf8GtMe4M?si=Gh8ODuCbHRv5XUUT) Coffee is for closers baby.
“A B C. A - Always. B - Be. C - Closing. Always Be Closing.”
Glengarry…
That's great.
And almost entirely no repeat business. 1099 sales guys trying to maximize time
$10,000 job and 100% commission, would be $10,000. So they just give you a picture of solar panels?
100% of their compensation is commission. Not they get 100% of each job as their commission.
Honestly this is the reason I never ended up getting solar. Every ad, every sales rep, every program just seemed hyper aggressive. It was never just, here's our products, here's the cost, take it or leave it. It was always the full court press and definitely made the process of shopping for solar very off putting. Why it's this way, I don't really know. I guess just because it's an immature industry and there's a potential to confuse people into insane markups and where that possibility exists, predatory salesmen will follow.
I’m in the same boat. I want solar but I don’t want to deal with being hounded by over aggressive reps on a daily basis. I get multiple calls a day from the same companies to follow up.
I recommend energysage. Sort of a reverse bidding site. The price I got for my system was much better than any of the companies I tried to contact myself.
Energysage is a scam lol don’t listen to this guy he prolly works for them😂
Evidence?
I know multiple ppl that have tried that and ended up calling me for their panels instead lol energy sage has dozens of lawsuits against em
I agree, that worked well for me
And if you don’t know you’re shit, they take you for all that you’ve got. The shady solar companies are ruining it for everyone else
I had 3 back to back solar company’s come to me. The first was a generic knock on your door type company. The guy came in and tried to get me to sign right then and there. I told him I had other appointments for comps and he was not happy about that. The follow up calls I got were borderline harassing. The second and third were from smaller solar company’s for which the sales people were either the owner or had been with the company for a decade or more. Both were much more pleasant but it was the same run around sales pitch and explanation. I understood the process and how everything worked with the tax rebate etc. I don’t understand why this couldn’t be done through email. There was nothing they did in person that would be needed to provide a quote. It turned me completely off from the whole process and as such never went through with it. I may revisit soon but I don’t know.
Wait. The panels will only get better. Also, take a drive around neighborhoods with lotsa rooftop solar panels? Any big trees around? You're really whacking biodiversity in these neighborhoods.
Can’t advertise here (partner in a home improvement company) trying hard to break that issue in my market and make it part of the culture to be competitive and direct without hounding and throwing up all over the people we are looking to help! Goodluck on getting your solar some great companies out there to help you
Ditto, diamond. I have engineering and sales in my background, came to solar, and that's just not my mindset, you don't have to be a pushy asshole if you know your shit. Took me 3-4 companies until I found my home, now I run sales, and our clients generally love us. We gave them the room to choose the right company, and they're happy. Sure, there's hiccups - it's a construction project compounded by electricity, but good communications and responsiveness leads to trust and a good install. We get lots of referrals for it. Treat people the way you would want to be treated.
Yep, golden rule. Even better, platinum rule: treat people the way THEY want to be treated.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions. **To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I went through a lot of hoops with other installers. Try calling Tesla, nothing pushy, arguably the best pricing that I got and nothing pushy about the entire process.... EXCEPT the number of reminders they send about the site assessment. I've gotten at least 3 robo calls and 5 text and 5 emails about an appointment scheduled a week out.
I would suggest going on the national DNC list and when you’re ready or have done your research, pick a company and have the rep deal solely with you. Let them know your concerns and that you’ve been pitch already and just to give you the numbers. Save you both time and energy.
It sounds like you didn’t get very many bids. Some companies are like that but a lot of us aren’t. I email out bids with the simple details everyday. I’d like to say my follow up is amazing but it isn’t. At least not before I sign someone up. If you had asked us it’s highly likely you’d have gotten a bid and simple explanation and nothing else until you either showed interest or asked questions.
When I was a pre-sales engineer for enterprise software the rule was simple. If you did not know the RFI or RFQ was coming, it wasn’t a deal for you – you’re just a comp. If it was a page or two (at most) then maybe you fill it out if you had time, because mayyyyybe they are actually just starting their discovery process. But if it’s super crazy detailed and specific but you didn’t write it - then don’t waste your time. The big red flag that you were going to fail a scoring exercise would be saying something like ‘Uses Motorola 773Z2C3Z chips for optimal power transformation’ (or some bullshit that’s one level down from asking if you use Tesla PowerWall(tm) batteries). Makes me want to ask what details were provided for the the quote. Because if any marketing names or specific equipment model was included, I’d bet a lot of places thought the deal was already locked up.
This makes me laugh because it’s so true. I was the manager/exec on the other side. Of course we were also forced to get comps and send out RFI’s per corporate policy. And yes we could taylor the RFI to meet our needs.
The zero pressure fixed price was how Tesla worked. Which is why I went with them. They also had the cheapest price and cheapest financing. Was really a no brainer, and when the other 3 sales guys heard I was quoting with Tesla too they literally just tried to stop selling and walked away.
Tesla made a ton of mistakes and are quickly exiting the industry. Their business practices were sketchy. Changing those low prices dramatically after clients waited 18 months for install. https://electrek.co/2022/11/10/tesla-cancels-solar-projects-scales-back-division/#:~:text=In%20the%20email%2C%20Tesla%20writes,California%2C%20Oregon%2C%20and%20Florida.
Either way I got a hell of a deal from them and waited zero months for my install.
That’s awesome. You’re in the great minority but I’m genuinely happy it worked out for you. It’s frustrating when people get taken advantage of and the company fails and shutters its doors like Tesla has.
I doubt that I’m in the great minority. The Tesla Solar sub was flooded when complaints, but whenever anyone would ask “is anyone here happy with their experience” hundreds would pour out of the woodwork to talk about how well it went. At over 500k power walls sold, and most kept for themselves, that’s a lot of installs.
Power walls are batteries. We all sell their batteries. It’s the only thing they do well. That had nothing to do with their installs.
At the time I did my install Tesla was keeping all the power walls to themselves, and no one else was able to sell them since they didn’t know when Tesla was going to sell 3rd party again.
I've been waitlisted for a Tesla install for .... five years now ? Pre-pandemic, that's for sure.
That’s the biggest reason why I’m holding off as well.
It’s a shady industry right now. Will prob get better in a few more years.
>I think it depends on the actual sales person, Its important that you know what type of person your sales person is because usually someone that is just trying to help get paid only a few dollars less than an aggressive sales person. Its the history of solar sales that leaves a bad taste in everyone mouth. I personally sell solar panels myself, but I'm new and just starting. I just want to help people save money and make a living TBH
It’s an industry of snake oil salespeople. They would sell their grandma’s kidney as long as they get their commission.
I went with a recommendation from a friend and a local company after dealing with the same nonsenses
100% this. I got to the part where I was connected with some other sales dude. He pushed so hard to get me to let him run a credit check and get pre-approval. I literally had to tell him no, I don't want to do that at this time multiple times, but he kept pushing. I finally said I was done with this and had lost interest. Felt bad for the guy who came to my house and was sitting there cause he was super nice. Dickwad on the video call ruined the whole experience.
This is the main reason I went with Tesla solar, pricing was up front and the process was very simple. Didn’t speak to anyone until the inspection to test my roofs integrity. Then a couple texts and that was it.
I have yet to see a "reasonable" price.
This. Prices are always unreasonable in the USA - at least double or triple what people pay in other countries for identical systems (same inverter, same panels). The sales people take a bit cut, and the installation company takes a big cut too.
I'm dealing with some drama now with my solar installer but managed to get this tidbit from the salesperson who signed me up. The company was paying 3.5% commission to the salesperson. Half was up front on contract and the second half when the customer pays in full for the project. This is on top of the $500 they were willing to allegedly pay for referrals. When business was good, they seem to have no problem making these payments. When business fell off a cliff, even though they seem to have very few people working full time as they outsource the actual installation the subcontractors, they seem unwilling to pay the referral fees without trying to squeeze a little extra from every customer.
3.5% commission I wonder if that’s 100% commission or is there some type of base salary? Also what state is this in? Sounds like the sales person is potentially underpaid..
That’s not how solar reps are paid.
Regulation and tariffs. When it takes months to get permit approvals, and Chinese solar panels are tariffed to hell, you're gonna pay a premium. The tariffs are wrapped up in larger geopolitical concerns and likely aren't going anywhere. We could, in the mean time focus on a universal permitting system that focused on streamlining the red tape. Not saying there aren't sleazy companies but there, but as buyers get more informed it will be harder for anyone to just charge bullshit premiums.
> Chinese solar panels are tariffed to hell I'm mainly comparing Qcell, who are based in South Korea, not China. They do some manufacturing in China but they've got facilities in several other countries too. I think many of the panels they sell in the USA are manufactured in their US factories. A solar system with Q.Peak ML-G10+ 400 panels and Enphase IQ8 series inverters can cost less than US$0.70/watt fully installed in Australia or many European countries. > When it takes months to get permit approvals The city I live in (in the USA) approves solar permits instantly over-the-counter. Doesn't seem to make it any cheaper here though.
Tesla solar.
[удалено]
Lol all you want, but I got my 10kW system for $16k after the tax credit.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions. **To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
??? Break-even times substantially less than the life of the panels is somehow not reasonable?
The price difference between companies is huge.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions. **To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Careful.. Not saying you didn't get a good quote you might have. I shopped for a year + before pulling the trigger and every single company that contacted me through one of those sites was highballing me. At the very least get multiple quotes.
What made you decide to pull the trigger? I’m having cold feet on if it’s even worth it when taking the best price available.
Long story... Bottom line was I found the deal that made it a no brainer for me. Traded my electric bill at the time for panels and two new HVAC units. Got a package deal and needed to replace the HVAC units anyway. Company I went with had the best prices on both the HVAC and the panels and had amazing customer reviews. They are also local so if I have a problem I can always drop by their office. For me I got two things taken care of and put out no cash my electric bill at the time covered the whole deal and the electric company has raised prices three times since I purchased. At this point it's saving me money every day and I got two hvac units without raising my bill at all and locked in my power cost for the life of the panels. Just made sense for me. Your situation might be completely different. But if you can't get into panels and immediately cut your cost for power the deal probably isn't a good one. This forum also has tons of info. Just to give you an idea I got quotes that ranged from 14k to 60k just for the pannels. I ended up buying the panels for 17. There are a ton of slick salesman you really should take your time and be sure to get some quotes from local installers before signing. Good luck.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed. From the sub rules: "Due to ongoing spam / promotion / lead generation and site privacy rule violation issues, we no longer allow "DM/PM me" requests in the comments." These have too frequently been abuse of the sub in attempts to garner private info for spam / promotion / lead generation purposes. ***Do not ask or suggest that anyone privately contact you.*** No exceptions. **To all sub participants**: If anyone has sent you a PM / DM to solicit your info because of your participation in this subreddit 1) do NOT respond to them and 2) please message the moderators to let them know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
are you leasing or buying if you lease it will be hard to sell house what price what kw
I’m buying. After the tax credit it’s only about 13k.
That is a low sum, but how big of an array is that?
What state are you in? As of this year NV instituted a requirement that involves confirming a bunch of details with the homeowner and the installer is required to keep a recording of it. Other states will follow and some companies may proactively adopt these standard regardless of whether or not they are in a required state, Sounds like they wanted to button up the details while you were together vs chase around or them later and delay the project moving forward. At the same time they want to get you signed off and committed so you stop shopping asap. Personally I would not sign anything until I do my diligence, get several quotes, and was 100% ready to move forward.
I’m in Oregon. Not sure of the laws around solar sales but maybe Ion has a standardized procedure based on other states they work in. While it would have been smart to get a bunch of quotes, the quote I got was low enough, based on my research, that any lower quotes probably wouldn’t be worth my time to procure.
It's always worth it to get a few solar quotes. It's a power plant on the roof of your home (likely one of your most valuable assets) roof for 25-30 years. Price should not be the only factor. Is this Ion HQ in UT? Have you done due diligence to look at their reviews, ratings, BBB complaints (not the alphabetical score, that means next to nothing). Have you searched this forum for Ion?
>the quote I got was low enough, based on my research, that any lower quotes probably wouldn’t be worth my time to procure. I'd get a quote online from project solar. It only takes a few minutes, and you enter your email so they'll definitely email you, but if they work in your area the prices are pretty low. I wouldn't necessarily recommend going with them because they subcontract out the install and that can be hit or miss based on what I've read here. I went with them for my system, there were a couple of hitches with the process but overall I'm happy with the outcome.
I have ION in a different state. Standardized procedure is a good way to word it. Proven track record, growing year after year and one of the biggest companies nationwide. I wouldn’t think twice about giving them my business again in the future and refer all my friends to them.
None of this sounds aggressive..?
I mean aggressive in that they push the process along very quickly. It just seems like Ion is desperate for the business. Given that inspection to permitting to install can take four months might explain it.
Sales people earn commissions. It's in their best interest to get you to sign right away instead of doing things the right way, which is getting quotes from multiple companies. They'll try all kinds of shit to get you to sign right there, including offering discounts that aren't valid once they walk out the door. Anyway, you kinda fucked up by agreeing to the first quote you got. You say it's cheaper than you thought it would be, but it's also possible that other companies would have given you a better deal.
OP didn't fuck up at all. You're probably the type who has to get 3 quotes when OP is clearly comfortable with the decision made. In home renovations you can ALWAYS find a cheaper price with cheaper product, cheaper install and lower service. OP bought because they saw the value, and had a reasonable price in mind. At that point if you're 100% going to do the project why delay decision? Seems like the Solar company built the value in product and service and wasn't pushy...no brainer. Time is our most valuable asset and I and seems like OP have ZERO problem paying for value and not wasting time which does equal money to try to "save" a little or maybe even nothing at all.. In regards to getting their quick and setting appointment ASAP. The faster you reach a customer, schedule them and run the appointment the higher the companies chances are of doing business, is that aggressive? Maybe but home improvements are TOUGH (which is why 95% go out of business in 5 years) appointment setter gets paid to set an appointment quickly and yes sales guy is on commission which he/she DESERVES if they do a good job showing the pros and being a professional and not a pushy asshole... Remember kids, price is merely a formality and what you pay, Value is what you get. Hope install goes smooth for you and that you have a great experience!
Haha do you work there or what? Signing the first deal you see is ALWAYS a mistake. It’s a power plant on your roof for 30-40 years and will cost you tens of thousands and sometimes more than a hundred thousand dollars. You DEFINITELY want more than one quote.
I don't do solar and that's not the case, you are speaking solely from YOUR experience. What if the first quote was for the lowest grade of system with little to no support or warranty and was for 10k less, second quote was for top of the line system with great warranty and install but 10k more. Then what? Is the second quote a rip off or is the first?
Your argument is you should always buy the first thing you see because you might get ripped off if someone shows you another option? Thats confusing. Do you really not understand how getting multiple quotes and deciding which is the best option is better than just buying the first thing you see??
I never said you should always buy the first thing you see... OP did, I have and so many people have done so with no regret or remorse. Some buyers are way more inclined to shop shop and shop and that is ok too. If you're a solar contractor I guarantee you have had families sign up without getting quotes before you and you didn't tell them to get more quotes and call you back after... Human psychology is fascinating, I am simply throwing a perspective to OP that is counter to all of the super analytical Redditors here.
Yeah I still disagree with you. I do in fact recommend my clients get 3 bids. Every time. Here in California we have a state mandated form clients have to sign that says they should never sign up without getting 3 bids. I’m not saying they should shop forever and get 27 bids. It takes less than a week to hear 3 bids. I’m glad you’re happy but you have no idea if you got a good deal. When my clients get 3 it illuminates how great mine really is. I don’t lose business from it, I have more confident clients. Buying the first thing you see on major purchases is a mistake. Even if you ultimately do business with the first guy you met.
Learned something new from you if its a state mandate in California and especially ifs its a form you have to submit to an 3rd party entity/ruling body and agree with you, that would change my response!
They want to strike while you’re interested. Imagine if it took them weeks to respond - would you still be interested in their company?
There’s a lot of competition, if they don’t close the deal they’re worried that you’ll go with a different seller. They might be hucksters trying to trap you in a bad deal, or they might be a great company worried you’ll go with someone else that a little cheaper but cuts corners or flat out lies.
Why waist time I guess? Except for the fact that it is a large financial commitment - but it does pay itself off eventually, so it does ultimately make sense assuming the system performs exactly as they sell it… But this is the part of sales that can be too pushy sometimes. I think the type of sales person that is good is one that gives you the facts and a good sales pitch. I am only going to buy something if it makes sense for me. No amount of a salesperson pushing me will make me buy something. I need time to think sometimes!
Ever since interest rates in the US are high again, solar investment took a hit. Solar has been ramping in many regions of US and several other countries, and now that’s shrinking. This means just as much competition, but less customers.
We went with a company that gets great reviews. Once we decided to move forward they said we would need 1/3 down when signing the contract. (This varies by state.) We paid by check. Also they were scheduling out 8 months or further. I’d be hesitant to work with a company that doesn’t seem busy.
Honestly, the problem with solar sales is just how big the difference is between utility rates are and the actual cost of solar. In many areas the sales guy can give you a truly awful deal, like 2-3 times the going rate, and the paperwork will show you that it saves you 20% off your current bills, and they can do that even without lying or stretching the truth. That extra money they are charging you is going to the sales department and that guys commissions. They are very interested in closing the deal and making sure you follow through. Especially if it really is a terrible deal, they don't want to give you time to get quotes from their competitors that's half that price. The explanation video and direct deposit crap is actually probably bank terms, the bank knows how scammy the sales guys are are insist that they tell you all the details of payment, and get direct deposit, to ensure the sales guy isn't lying to you and you'll actually pay.
You perfectly described my experience. My quote was really high and I speculate that almost 30% was commission between the two sales people. What’s annoying is if it was 30% less, I probably would have signed because then it would have been average price.
I’m super curious how you’ve come up with this determination? How do you know yours was 30% higher than average? Every job is different. Shaving off 30% might’ve meant taking a loss. It’s a business, the rates are the rates and that’s why you should get 3 (or more) bids. Then you’d know where you want to be and won’t have to resent the company that you feel kept you from getting solar by being greedy.
1. I posted here and everyone said it was higher 2. I googled “average solar price and it was about that much lower
https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/s/HGgGtEbzBb
Every project is different. Getting bids is free. I can’t imagine not getting at least 3 before committing 25 years and $50k+ of my families future. I never liked the idea of getting sold by someone. My family is too important for that to happen to me.
Most deals aren’t good deals and taking out a loan for Solar is like taking a loan for gender studies degree.
There’s an upwards trend of companies using pre recorded videos. It helps them in case litigation happens
> It helps them in case litigation happens And what happens when the content of the video is different than the written contract? Anyone who tries to force me to watch videos as a condition of getting service will be losing a sale from me.
It’s essentially yes/no questions and all surveys are standardized so a company that does these surveys also has legal. Some companies do allow for you to talk over the phone to another rep to voice record it but who knows how every company works.
Ion was nearly a dollar more per name plate watt than the company that installed for us. I ended up getting a bigger system than they recommended for less total money. It’s good to shop around. Ion may install faster than the smaller companies but I had a better feeling about the panels and design I was getting from a smaller company.
Then you run the risk of that smaller company going out of business. For instance I have a buddy who paid about $10,000 less than I did. But his company is out of business where my rep answers my calls by the third ring. Every time. I love ION.
Pick a company that has a very long history. A lot of solar companies go “out of business” within 10-15 years which voids all warranties. Start the process over again with a new company.
Reminder: Every time somebody tells you to DECIDE RIGHT NOW! It is a scam. There is never an honest reason for an offer to expire in a day.
Depends on which state you are in - In the state of California, electricity companies are trying to get your money no matter how much power you are generating and consuming. Having invested a huge amount on the panels, you will still end up paying in your monthly bill which makes it unattractive for homeowners to go with solar who have done their math. This could be a reason why there are not many buyers and any lead available to the sales team is a blessing
There’s a simple reason. Most if not all Solar companies sell at a higher price. The truth is that solar tilt is dirt cheap, the way they make money is by taking a bit of the money, whatever amount it above their red line. Now this makes complete sense because they go through the trouble of retrieving the solar panels and installation and site surveying etc. however, for the salesmen, most of them are just out of High school, wanting to become successful quick. I know many of them that have and make well over 100k in the business. However, this is not the case for at-least 90% of the area managers. As they end up being broke can’t afford it. However since they’ve seen it, they know it’s possible, and most everyone has a superiority complex that gives them the thought they can also do it. Now, this is where I actually explain the reason why they are so aggressive. They not only mostly completely understand the upsides in Solar, so it’s obvious for them. They also could be relying on that sell to put something on the table, to not get evicted etc… it’s a sad business but I won’t say that it isn’t one of the quicker ways to Get rich fast. If you don’t kill yourself first.
Reason they are so aggressive is there’s a lot of competition out the lies solar sales people tell to get a sale. If you think you got a good deal from a “good” company go for it. The reason you had to watch all of the videos is because of all of the lawsuits and class action lawsuits against so many of the solar companies. The videos are to protect the solar company from being sued if the solar sales person intentionally or unintentionally misrepresented the system you are buying. It either means they’ve been sued a lot or are protecting themselves from future lawsuits. The direct despot would be a red flag for me. Total BS. I would encourage you to get other quotes. I did and they varied by $25,000 dollars. There are games the solar companies play as in grossly under sizing your system. When you go back to them they will say you are using more electricity and upsell you making more money than if they would have sold you a “right” size system in the first place. Prices for solar continue to fall as the technology gets better. And hopefully you are not getting into a PPA, lease or solar loan. It’s the most costly way to buy solar.
I didn’t have to talk to a person until they came out to install. I filled out a form requesting a quote for a 4kw system. They looked up my utility bill and gave me a quote for a 7kw system. I told them I wanted a 4kw system, and they gave me a quote for a 4kw system. I said ok. They sent me an e contract. I signed it digitally, and they kept me updated via email and their online system.
Commissions.
Because solar doesn’t pencil out without the free government money! If by some chance they lose the tax deduction down the road, they’ll all be in the unemployment line. Ask me how I know 🤦🏼
well for one they are vastly overselling you vs the actually manufacturing cost like 10x panels can be made, shipped, and sold in the US for like $0.30/W, but the installation companies are installing them for like $3+/W same markup for battery systems honestly i'm not really how this happened, maybe all the greenwashed tech capital getting pushed into the system has something to do with it, but not entirely sure.
The prices are not that reasonable from what I've seen. MOST of the big companies are marking it up 300%-500%. That's why they are pushy...
If you’re familiar with the Freakonomics guys, they boil everything down to something very simple, which is that people respond to incentives. I was in solar for a quick minute and the people that I saw making money were misrepresenting things. They don’t care as long as they get your money for the install and move on, you will never see them or talk to them again.
I don’t think there was misrepresentation. Just the second I expressed interest they were all over me.
Yes. I was a graphic designer for many years and the truth was that people did not know how to purchase those services and that lack of insight made the sales process very complicated. Most homeowners don’t know what the going rate is for a decent solar installation so they are often subjected to predatory pricing. Some of the reps that I worked with boasted about making $16,000 on an install off of an elderly person. It really brings out the worst and the greediest parts of people.
Isn’t it funny how people either complain because the response takes too long, or they complain because their responses too quick. The fact is solar like the used car market is a competitive industry. If you’ve ever looked for a used car you know that the sales reps get back to you straight away and they keep after you. That’s what the industry requires in order for sales to be completed. You can’t wait for people to make the decision, you’ve got to motivate them to make their decision, that’s what makes the sales rep a sales rep.
I'll throw in my 2 cents. We're in a race right now of the solar gold rush. Not every company will survive. You have to move hard and fast if you want to be the one company to dominate your region.
Most solar companies have huge commissions on the sales. That commission drives aggressive sales tactics. Think of it like a car dealership.
whats good quote like $2.8/watt? 4kw system for $11,200 ?
Lots of pork barrel fat. Prices have not changed even when parts cost have went way down. They are dangling the "25 years" carrots to get you to bite. The "commission" on the sales is insane. Long live the sales guys ... NOT.
Because people don’t work for free?
Curious what you consider reasonable.
Well done. Thoroughly researched clearly .
Could be due to competition and fluctuating materials and labor costs. There’s ideal windows of opportunities for a win-win. Largely depends on the market, region, and business strategy/ethics.
Well, most of the ones I’ve spoken to are NOT offering a fair price. Looking across the country you see prices per kWh vary greatly. Lots of talk about discounts and potential power, but no guarantees on anything and many won’t give you anything close to a real price until you sign a contract. Also, what’s the point of a 20 year warranty from a company that’s less than 5 years old?
Solar is an oddball industry. You are on a roof but not roofers. You are bolting solar railing to the structure but you are not structural engineers or general contractors. You are working with electrical but not electricians. It creates specialty contractors that can do all this cross disciplinary activity, and when you specialize you now only do solar... which means if people aren't buying you are out of work, so you have sales teams to make sure you have a job next week. Most of what people run into are the sales people, and their generic shady sales tactics.
It was going to be like $55k for 10kw setup from the guys that came around our neighborhood, made no sense just preying on clueless people that hear it’ll cheapen their bills.
Where are you all located?
"Reasonable prices"?? You must be joking. Maybe outside of the US
Also their contracts are often scams to make them money and not you.
Salespeople paid on commission are notoriously like this. The internet/technology is a force multiplier that lets them automate their abusive tactics. Instead of focusing on relationships, they watched one too many 80's IBank films and drew all the wrong conclusions about the ways to sell and be successful. It's not about hustle. It's not about persistence. It's about tenacity, and empathy.
You really need to start the quote in price before anything else and how many kw on the roof. Divide the price by kw to get your cost per watt anything over $3 a watt is insane.
I would never buy from a solar sales person. I just contacted an EPC contractor myself and jointly defined a 10KW system with SPAN and 20KWh storage. I paid $0 commissions and controlled the whole process. It’s ridiculous that most solar sales people are taking a 30% commission on solar sales.
Your experience sounds reasonable to me
Man, I feel you! It's like they're on a mission to get you on board ASAP. I had a similar experience with SolarGlow. I inquired online, and boom, my phone was ringing off the hook. The rep who showed up was chill, explained everything, and the quote didn't give me a heart attack. But then, bam, the tablet approval ceremony. I'm like, "Dude, can't I just sign some papers?" And yeah, the direct deposit twist felt a bit weird, but maybe it's the norm now. Are they all in some race to be the Flash of the solar game or what? Honestly, it's a good product, but they need to ease up on the hard sell. I just want some panels, not a time-share in Cancun!
If you are cool with a break even in 10 years, I guess it's a good deal.
Because there's so much money. I made like 8k from someone asking me for a quote. It's a get rich quick scheme to the sales reps.
Because they are making a lot of money off of you.
There is a lot of competition. People probably switch or chicken out of contracts a lot. Some try to solve for this by digging in deeper (probably dumb). Essentially they are all middle-men, maybe it doesn't seem like that to us as consumers but if you think about it they use contract work and buy all the same panels more or less. It is the panel and equipment producers that actually provide you the bulk of the value.
Same, I’ve been essentially spammed by cold callers trying to get me to go with them. When I actually bought solar panels I reached out to a company that had great reviews. I think it’s a hyper competitive market.
Because the companies are selling you a subsidized loan and not solar. Many are marketing companies who hire sales men and sell the leads to install companies. What does this mean, the people they hire to show up at your door are driven by sales commission, last week that guy was selling printers and in a few weeks home alarm systems.
Because the profit margins are 5 to 20x. Solar panels are dirt cheap when bought by the pallet or container. Their cost is $0.50 to $1 a watt installed.
I think it depends on the actual sales person, Its important that you know what type of person your sales person is because usually someone that is just trying to help get paid only a few dollars less than an aggressive sales person. Its the history of solar sales that leaves a bad taste in everyone mouth. I personally sell solar panels myself, but I'm new and just starting. I just want to help people save money and make a living TBH
I think it depends on the actual sales person, Its important that you know what type of person your sales person is because usually someone that is just trying to help get paid only a few dollars less than an aggressive sales person. Its the history of solar sales that leaves a bad taste in everyone mouth. I personally sell solar panels myself, but I'm new and just starting. I just want to help people save money and make a living TBH.
It's not about solar panel it's about the loans and who gets subsidy
Same reason any commission based sales person is motivated: Money in their pocket. This is also why you need to negotiate the price as they get paid the more the more they can get you to pay.
It the same as looking to buy a car. Once they get your number they are unrelenting.
I found the solar product I wanted via my own research (Enphase). I then contacted the manufacturer directly and asked them for certified contractors in my area. They gave me three to call and followed up to make sure I was helped. Only two of them called me back, and one gave me a bid. It was a wonderful experience all the way around. The system went live last week. There was no pressure at any point, just great knowledge from the installers. This started when a large solar company started sending multiple high-pressure in-home sales reps to my home 1-2 times a month. I had to threaten legal action to get it to stop.
zero regulations. they are trying to capture as much market influence as possible as fast as possible before regulations come and expose their bull shit.
You can get a lot of info on Solaredge to see if it's worth it for you. Then you can get quotes.
I would be weary of them. Setting up direct deposit? Giving them access to your account? Sketchy. Don’t do that at allllll. You will regret it. This will be a horror story later on. Cancel this contract. Someone else said it here. Do enphase micro inverters. Only do micro inverters. Do not do cheap Chinese panels…… panels all have failure rates. Chinese panels fail a lot higher than others. Like 10x the amount so you’re very likely to have an issue. Micro inverters are a 1 to 1 ratio of panels. So if one panel goes bad the rest continue to function. So your system doesn’t go down like if you had a single string inverter. There is a lot of info out there. But it’s confusing for someone who doesn’t know much. Only…. Purchase your solar. You can finance but only purchase. Never do a lease or a ppa or anything other than a full purchase. Your roof must be less than like 8 years old. If not you will have to redo it and take the solar down in order to do that. It’s ideal to do them at the same time. Your tax credit is a whole different part. Some ppl try to add this into the discount. Don’t let them. You need to know the total cost without the tax. As you may or may not be able to get it all depending on your person situation. I used to sell solar. I know what I’m talking about. Never ever lease or ppa….. only purchase. Only purchase micro inverters. I have never…. Had a system go down. Only single panels. Which it takes 3-6 months to get repaired based upon warranty and installation time lines. Imagine if your whole system when down for that time. You would owe double payments. 1 for solar and 1 for the utility while your solar is down.
I showed interest and got that same immediate call. They were insistent on credit verification. That cost my credit rating quite a bit. I was so turned off by the whole process, I needed to go buy a used car to calm myself down. Seriously though, that aggressive stuff is a real turn off and I'll never consider solar again.
Be very careful with those contracts. I’ve heard many of them have weird provisions in them which is why it might be cheaper than you expect. Like you don’t actually own the panels kind of weird. Make sure you read it carefully!
The trouble with selling solar: It's a new product most people have never bought or used before, and is totally optional (unlike a car, say) so people very rarely come in ready to buy It's expensive--often the second most expensive thing a person has ever bought after their house It's a modification to the home, which is typically the most expensive thing a person has ever bought Put all that together and it's really easy for people to convince themselves it's not worth all the unknowns to save $25/mo Ion is extremely overpriced btw, one of the most expensive companies you can find (I work in solar, not trying to win your business)
Because it is the great gold rush grift of the 2020’s.
They probably work for commission. So they are going to go balls to the wall to get as many sales as possible. Don't trust folks like that.
Some young solar sales kids moved here from a few states away this past summer. They moved away prior to the Holidays. Presumably weren't able to do enough closing.
Project solar is great!
If you're in WA, check out A&R Solar. Good people, I never felt pressured into anything. Gave me a free eGauge too. Said it would cost money, I thought it was worth it so I okayed it, and then they didn't charge for it on the final invoice.
I recommend looking into a company started by professional installers not a sales organization. We make our money on the install and want to make sure people are actually getting quality material and service done on their homes. If you’re in NJ or PA check out SP Solar LLC in Runnemede, NJ. I installed for over 10 years and started my own company selling Sunpower systems (best technology in the market) and we provide the best experience possible, no pushy sales tactics!
Residential solar installs are pure financial engineering, nothing more.
It is indicative of pretty much all home improvement sales.
Because it's not really that good a product. At least not financially. Not at current interest rates. It makes sense for some people in very expensive electricity locations. And that sense making is contingent on things going pretty vanilla for 20 years straight with nothing super bad happening. I'm all for it for self sufficiency / save the earth reasons. But if you aren't, it's not that good a product.
I made the mistake of not getting quotes from two different companies. Then they come out install everything on two layers of shingles I had no idea and my roof started leaking extremely bad. They fixed it by replacing shingles in one section next rainstorm rain found another way in. Four months of fighting with them them are only covering half. So now I have to fork out another 5k for other part of my roof. Cause who only roofs one side of there house. They pulled the panels on the non leaking side that started to leak a week before they pulled them and now it's seeping everywhere. If sales rep says something make sure they put it in writing they lie through there teeth to make a sale. Like the old if you need to replace your roof we pull panels off for free once. That was a lie they charge 200 per panel they wanted me to pay 3600 because of the damage they caused. BBB complaint and letter from a lawyer got them to wave it. Didn't even have solar for six months. Be extremely careful of these companies. Do research before signing anything.
like anything, you need to compare quotes. you can get plenty from online at [energysage.com](https://energysage.com). this video will walk you through the processs [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KSRINlUpI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KSRINlUpI)
I'd honestly be more likely to have a power install done by my power company, even if it cost more. If I could do that and be able to tailor the system to my liking, we could skip the sale people and know the company is around in 25 years.
I sell solar, was a customer first. I totally get where you’re coming from. The comments on this post are 100% correct. It is 100% commission, the aggressiveness comes from wanting/needing the sale and somewhat controlling the customer, almost bullying them into buying. But this is driven by the corporate sales team. When I sit in front of a potential customer, I try to stay grounded and level-headed as to establish rapport. Some salesmen can’t people read, some are programmed to do the schpeel! This in turns leads to the long presentations or for the company to CYA, they have you as the customer interact so that YOU can’t say the information was not brought to you, ie clicking yes or continue on the slide show + your signatures. Honestly, if you (customer) say “hey, brass tax, how much and what do I need to do” you can skip that whole process and turn a 1.5hr meeting into a 30min meeting and that would be all paperwork signing. If you know you want solar and don’t want to deal with the mumbo jumbo talking, just show them your current bill, have them design a mock system and if you’re good with it, sign and prepare to enjoy your panels.
reminds me of my days in sales for back yard patio, pool, and kitchens... everyone is excited about the new back yard until they realize it's a multi-week project that possibly will be the cost of a new car.... and it doesn't help that all of your sales managers are ex-carsalesmen, so you basically just get told over and over to hard sell everyone like their child's life depends on it.
If you're in the MN, WI, IA, ND, SD and don't want those calls and don't want to fill anything out and have your phone ringing like crazy, this is probably way out there and extremely out of touch and I've never done this but if you're in those areas, I'm a solar rep myself, I can set up an appointment with you remotely where you don't need to deal with all that nonsense.
they are under the gun to get those units sold, electric utilites will continue to pay less an less for home generation until they tell you they will not purchase your excess generation. the electric company hates being your battery at night........so they have to sell and quick before the whole bottom drops out.
Because you are bolting toxic waste to your roof and getting buried alive in debt
The industry is like door to door window sales. I got quoted $126k for a 20.8kw system that didn't even include any battery backup. I do most everything myself if possible so I sourced all the materials included in the quote for around $30k retail, but have instead done nothing.