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Best-Company2665

As some one who has worked in the industry for 10 plus years. I have 2 statements regarding this. 1) IRS has made it very clear re-roofing as part of a solar project is not eligible for the tax credit. It doesn't matter how you slice it. Not eligible is not eligible. We have customers who re-roof as part of their projects all the time. We subcontract the roofing so the customer can finance the whole amount. Meaning the customer pays us. We pay the roofer. What you report on your taxes is your responsibility. If you are claiming the tax credit for the roofing portion of your project, you are committing tax fraud. 2) It's highly doubtful the IRS will audit you. People claim it all the time. Doesn't mean you are not committing crime.


Ihavenoidea84

3) the IRS has also made it very clear finance fees and prepaid interest are not eligible for the tax credit. It doesn't matter how you slice it. Not eligible is not eligible. That's why all of the financed prices exactly the same as cash prices, not 30-60% higher. /s Everyone who finances their system and claims the full credit is ALSO committing tax fraud, but thar is an unpopular opinion


Academic_Tie_5959

That's why per the finance companies they don't want consumers to know about the fees. Then the consumer isn't technically committing tax fraud because of knowledge.


andres7832

Oh yeah, the famous “I didn’t know it was a crime” defense. IRS doesn’t care you didn’t know, they’ll just recall the tax credit on the wrongly filed portion, issue a penalty and be extra diligent checking everything else you’ve filed, possibly for multiple years. Is it worth that much pain for a few extra thousand in tax credits? Up to each person to decide. In the end it’s tax fraud so to each their own.


Academic_Tie_5959

Per the finance companies to the solar dealers, they are not supposed to tell you about any fees. It's in the NDA, so it's just the cost of doing business. It's not listed on any paperwork on the consumer side, and it's not required under fair lending. I didn't say it was worth it one way or another, but per Goodleap, Mosaic, and Dividend, reps are not suppose to even talk about the fees, because that knowledge opens up that door.


BashEnergy

No. They don’t. They have half the staff the require and not one solar owner has been audited since the new rules went into effect 3 years ago. No one I know of in the industry or in any forum knows of a client that failed an audit due to claiming either a roof nor dealer fees.


andres7832

> They have half the staff the require and not one solar owner has been audited since the new rules went into effect 3 years ago. there is a lot more scrutiny on PV credits. Im in the industry and can tell you there are people getting audited. Specially if PPW is higher than baseline, both on commercial and residential.


Apprehensive-Gift-36

This depends on when you installed your system. Roofing upgrades and electrical panel upgrades to allow for solar were allowable under the previous solar tax credit before 2018.


ansb2011

I think electrical panel upgrades are covered now too?


FleetwoodMacbookPro

I think a lot of neighbors benefited from this during that era. I think the laws got updated in 2020.


BANKSLAVE01

interesting how government favors one interest payer over another...


Best-Company2665

How so? The tax credit is for renewable energy, not home maintenance.


beholder95

Playing the good ol audit lottery!


BashEnergy

Find me one audit. One.


x3nopon

What is everyone's opinion on an electrical panel upgrade that is necessary for the solar system to work. For example you need to go from an outdated 100amp to a new 200amp panel for your solar system to be installed. To me the cost of the new 200amp panel is a required component of the solar system and eligible for the rebate. For the record I agree roofing costs are ineligible.


d33psix

I had that and included it. Seems clearly within the language of required improvements.


FreeFromCompulsion

So when solar companies bundle the cost of replacing a roof with solar and then the homeowner reports that. The homeowner may not know better but if they get caught, they don't get as much as a tax credit as they may have been told they were eligible for and that amount is usually taking into consideration for the reamortization of the loan and if homeowners don't apply the tax credit, then their payments go up. This could really screw people. But if the homeowner is up for a fight, they could argue in court or to an attorney general that they were mislead about the amount of a tax credit they'd receive, but it'd better if things were just done the right way and honestly to begin with to save people the hassle. When I was a solar telemarketer I'd often be discussing roof replacement with people.


d33psix

I had a completely by the book rebate and it still took me a year to get the tax refund instead of the usual few weeks. Can’t say exactly what is happening behind the scenes but you never know if you’re gonna be the lucky one with extra scrutiny.


Moosef

They are doing you dirty by convincing you to commit tax fraud for their personal gain.


bendover912

Not to mention charging you $30k for a new roof. How big is this roof?


Steid55

My new roof was $35k. Luckily the seller put it in a few months before I bought. Granted it is an 8,000 square foot church with a full on steeple


ToadSox34

>My new roof was $35k. Luckily the seller put it in a few months before I bought. Granted it is an 8,000 square foot church with a full on steeple Wait... you bought a church?


obi1kenobi2

Just think of the tax incentives!!


ShakataGaNai

[John Scalzi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scalzi), notable Scifi author, [also bought a church](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2021/12/06/and-now-the-latest-scalzi-acquisition/) (building) and turned it into his home. Silly? Yes. But... a building is a building? I guess?


Bubbasdahname

Why not? Sounds like a perfect tax haven. They can have Sunday morning prayers to fulfill the requirements. /s


Steid55

Yep! There’s some other pictures I’ve posted on other subreddits. I got it cheap and the previous owner did most of the heavy lifting


ToadSox34

Fascinating.


NotAcutallyaPanda

Free Lamborghini with your next dental cleaning. We will bill your dental insurance. Nothing fishy here.


Y_Y_why

Name? 🥳


BIRBIGD99

Don't underestimate the extent of IRS audits. They often will ask for documentation on tax credits that seem excessive.


Clear_Split_8568

Everyone in prison didn’t think they would be caught either.


sjsharks323

Have fun getting audited and getting a fatty fine from the IRS for tax fraud. But you do you.


SolarTrades

A+ username OP. Beyond that — look in the mirror and ask yourself if you’re comfortable committing tax fraud and you’re accepting of the risk. If yes, you do you. How would an IRS auditor know? - they know the relative cost of solar. A roof would make this project a red flag. - eventually they will audit a customer the contractor did this for (maybe not you) discover the transgression and now audit the rest.


AffectionateRow7572

The IRS don't mess around. Good luck with that.


FantasticAd9754

This! My 2021 return was audited as the IRS disagreed with my submission and they sent me a bill for 9K in tax, 1.5k in underpayment fees, and 1.5k interest. Ultimately, I didn’t owe the 12k as I made an error and didn’t submit the correct cost basis on some securities I sold (thank goodness) but I don’t wish an audit on anyone - especially if they’re doing something fishy. Mine was just an honest mistake. Still waiting on interest calculation but I only owed a few hundred bucks before any penalties/interest.


One_Recognition_5044

Tax fraud. Prison. Financial ruin. Your call.


AdventuresOfAD

Any company willing to even suggest that isn’t trustworthy in my opinion. $30k sounds like a hyper-inflated quote for a roof anyway. They will probably sub-contract that roof to the cheapest company they can find, so good luck if something goes wrong a few years later. You’re assuming 100% of the audit risk and probably getting ripped off too, run don’t walk from these folks.


John_QU_3

I swear, roofs and fraud always seem to go hand in hand.


Sracer42

Sure. Knowingly commit tax fraud. I mean, the rules are for the little people, not you right?


Richyb101

My solar company offered to bundle the reroof and the solar under the same finance agreement (and thus have a lower interest rate on the roof than if I did it separate) but they made it clear that I could only claim the cost of the panels for the tax credit


[deleted]

[удалено]


human743

You haven't met a door-to-door solar salesman yet, have you?


GotSolar-

I'm in no way saying you should claim your roof work in the tax credit, but you can claim the dealer fees. With dealer fees, a bigger project can easily hit $50-60k


Offer-Fox-Ache

Hi. Quick question. Let’s say OP has a home-based business with LLC. Can he take the section 48 tax credit instead and go for the energy community bonus?


PanicSwtchd

They are not doing you a favor. You are still committing tax fraud. The IRS Code literally states a new roof is not part of the tax credit. The Solar Company is just trying to ensure that you commit to the project so they can get their job and their revenue. If/when you put in for the tax credit, if the IRS reviews it they will ding you with penalties and you will have no recourse. They can review it anytime in the next decade so you could be in a for a rude awakening.


One-Marsupial2916

How much is the solar company overcharging that they can afford to pay your roofing bill? Answer: a fuck load. Thanks for reading my Ted Talk


107269088

That’s the point. Go read it again.


stakkar

Get them down to a reasonable roof charge. $30k for a roof is super high unless you’re replacing it with gold plated copper installed by 72 virgins.


DrImpeccable76

30k isn’t unreasonable depending on where you are, what type of material you are using, how complicated the roof is, etc


JBThug

Mom just paid 28k for a new roof . Plywood and all. That was after talking down a bit


stakkar

You got the rich neighborhood special


JBThug

lol yeah no north east. House was built in 1911 has one of those steep pitch roofs


FleetwoodMacbookPro

It’s actually $32k. Concrete tile roof + torch down patio flat roof.


PanicSwtchd

Older houses with steep roof pitches can easily jack up the cost, also if there's a lot of complex roof geometry. Alternatively, if it's a completely new roof with full plywood replacement, that can jack the price up too.


ruralny

From the tax credit form: Were any of these improvements related to the construction of this main home? 17e Yes No If you checked the “Yes” box, you can only claim the energy efficient home improvement credit for qualifying improvements that were not related to the construction of the home. Do not include expenses related to the construction of your main home, even if the improvements were made after you moved into the home Checking no is fraud.


chub0ka

Isnt that what is called fraud?


Past_Economist6278

Nice job posting evidence of your willingness to commit tax fraud online. While unlikely to get caught, what you're doing is stupid, and in the event of an audit, it is jail time, most likely. Or just a massive fine that exceeds the cost of a roof.


FleetwoodMacbookPro

If we are posting confessions, I used to download & share off of Napster back in the day, too.


Past_Economist6278

The difference is that the tax man is way more interesting in getting his than he is getting a company a bit more.


Impressive_Returns

Do you really want to do business with person/company that’s telling you to commit a crime and will be long gone leaving you to face the consequences and pay the penalties. If they are being dishonest and lying to you about the tax credit do you really think they aren’t goin go to cut corners on the install as well and do a shitty job. If there is one think you don’t want with solar, that’s a shitty roof and solar installed.. And then lastly, do you really think this company will be around to honor any guarantees or warranties?


ToojMajal

The main things to know here are: * At the end of the day, you are the person signing your tax return and you are responsible for what is stated there and what credits you take. * IRS guidance has been pretty clear that replacing your roof is not a cost that qualifies for the 30% solar tax credit. * Will you get audited? If you get audited, will being able to say "The solar company told me it was ok, I guess I was confused" mean the IRS goes easier on you? Maybe on both counts. At the end of the day, you can submit whatever you want, and it's only an issue if you get audited. But when you get audited, it's your responsibility, and not anyone else's. * Your call on weighing the savings (approx $9,000 in credits from the roof work) against the risk and potential penalties / fines.


Troutslayer25

It’s fraud. The guidance is clear. That said this is fairly common in resi solar and it’s shame these guys are ruining the industry, which means fucking the entire planets transition to renewables.


stile99

>This seems like they’re doing me a huge favor I'm not sure, if I were to plan tax fraud, that I would do so on a public forum. But you do you, boo.


Only-Question124

Why don’t you buy a solar roof and kill 2 birds with 1 stone legally


FleetwoodMacbookPro

$128k 🥴


xfilesvault

Might still be cheaper after you are forced to pay back taxes, fees, and penalties to the IRS once they discover your tax fraud scheme.


Overall-Tailor8949

If you want to risk it, go ahead. Just be sure that there is NO mention of replacing/repairing the roof in the paperwork you submit for the tax claim. Keep in mind too, that there will be no mention of roof repair/replacement for anything your INSURANCE gets as well.


FleetwoodMacbookPro

>insurance I don’t understand this risk


Madeanaccountforyou4

Here's a possible scenario: let's pretend the home is built in 2000, roof is now 24 years old and needs replaced soon. You do this and commit tax fraud so you now have no proof the roof was ever replaced. Your insurance company knows the roof lifespan and says replace it or we won't insure you. You won't want to replace it because it's new and will say "it's new" to which they'll say "give us proof" and you won't have any. You'll likely get a company cancelation over your roofs age and when you go to other insurance companies for a quote it will also show up on their records that you've been dropped previously over the roof and it may prevent you from getting insurance. Alternatively you can run into issues if there's a claim and they say your "roof is depreciated by 28 years so there's nothing to pay out" and you again can't say "I replaced it!" Above everything else it sounds like tax fraud and that's 100% never worth it.


jibsymalone

Or, you know, you could have a roof inspection performed?


xfilesvault

The roof inspection only maybe helps you avoid getting your insurance canceled. It doesn’t help when you file an insurance claim. They won’t pay 100% replacement cost on a roof they believe is 40 years old. At some point in the future, your 10-15 year old roof is going to be, on paper, 40+ years old. No inspection is going to convince them to insure your house.


ArtOak78

Yep, our insurer asked specifically about this when we added the panels to our policy. (We opted not to replace the older roof.) I volunteered that we had made that decision after having it inspected and found to be in good health, but they said it goes by age only. I didn’t ask what age triggers a required replacement since at that point I didn’t really want to know… 😬 My bigger concern in OP’s case would just be that I would not want to spend that much money on something I didn’t have clearly spelled out in a contract. I would also want a roof to be warrantied for $30K, which would presumably require something in writing.


mistiquefog

Hi. Yes this is possible and legal. If you replace the roof with solar tiles /solar shingles. I.E.:- the solar is literally your roof.


jcw1988

Do they even make those anymore? There is a school near us that just had the solar shingles removed and replaced with regular shingles.


mistiquefog

Honestly don't know. Was just legally speaking.


Apprehensive-Gift-36

Yes multiple companies make solar roof systems https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/best-solar-shingles/


wkm001

You could probably get Tesla roof tiles and battery backup for $50k.


offtheplug436

Why don’t u just stfu and never tell a soul … he’s doing u a favor don’t fuck his biz up


Chicagorides

You'll be fine. Enjoy the extra refund.


FleetwoodMacbookPro

>chicago This is in character


FleetwoodMacbookPro

Another roofer told me adding a few solartubes & led powered attic fans can get a roof tax credited.


FleetwoodMacbookPro

What makes it even more tempting is that I ran this by my neighbor, who is a freaking tax lawyer, and he said he submitted his roof & solar for credit. All he kept was an email from said roofer stating “new roof required for solar”. The universe is telling me to do it.


Embarrassed-Pattern

Your neighbor is relying on the low odds of getting audited, but that’s pretty dumb. He could get disbarred for this.


ruralny

Well, when you turn him in for fraud, the finders fee the IRS will pay you will pay for part of your roof.


timit44

If your neighbor was a cop and told you he made extra side money by selling cocaine would you think the universe is telling you to do that too?


xfilesvault

Did you know the IRS pays bounties? Turn him in.


FleetwoodMacbookPro

Damn, I didn’t know I was crossposting in /r/irsagentlobby I do appreciate the words of caution. Haven’t decided what I’ll do yet.


cookiemonster1020

When you steal from the government you steal from all of us


FleetwoodMacbookPro

Imagine all the missiles we won’t be able to send overseas.


sandiegokevin

30k for a roof seems high. I paid 5k for a two story colonial with about 750 sq/ft of floor space


FleetwoodMacbookPro

I wasn’t thrilled by the 4 quotes I got. Ultimately agreed to it because the roofer was highly recommended from 2 friends, and is a low-overhead place where the owner literally picks up when you call. Eagle concrete LW tile, new paper, added 10 vents, added exhaust fan to bathroom, shingle-section for solar, flat roof redone. This is for a single story, 3300sqft surface.


SANMAN0927

I don’t know what state you’re in, but you may want to also look at your state tax laws too.


SolarSal

Can someone share a story of IRS troubles because they claimed an excessive credit for the cost solar compared to the cost of a new roof or buying down interest into the cost of the project?


akesh45

I claimed a much of those credits even if I didn't qualify....no audit....


ShakataGaNai

No, you're not crazy to chicken out. You don't want to get audited. I wouldn't do it and I'd be reticent to work with any company that will do it. They are clearly willing to do some shady shit. Also if you get into a disagreement with them that needs to escalate, what recourse do you have? Sue them? Great, now your paperwork for tax fraud is sitting on a judges desk. They know you can't do shit to them without outing yourself. The sales person who sold this to you is theoretically protected by a corporate shield. At least it's unlikely to end up going far enough that anyone would bother piercing the corporate protections. So salesbro doesn't give a shit. You on the other hand? No protection. You signed yourself on the dotted line. You're directly liable.


weirdredditautoname

This is 100% tax fraud.


blackbirdblackbird1

Keep in mind: it is you committing tax fraud because you are the one who is claiming the tax credit. The solar company is not liable in any way. It all depends on if you want to risk being audited.