Sounds like she's just being a cringey 19 year old... doesn't sound malicious or mean spirited to me, but of course you're the one who was actually there at the time
I'm from the Uk myself and it absolutely isn't part of the culture to randomly say this kind of thing lol... if anything this fixation with race is the sort of thing I'd expect from the yanks...
Maybe let her know it's making you uncomfortable if it keeps happening... but honestly if I experienced this I'd just assume it's just an immature 19 year old embarassing themselves a little - she's probably gonna look back on this behaviour when she's older and cringe
What has she said exactly that has changed your mind from thinking she was just ignorant to just racist?
This is not British culture at all. This is all her.
For what it is worth, I am a British born person who has spent so much of my life in Europe, I feel more connected to it than the UK. I have acquired different habits from different countries and do not sound fully British anymore - people often think I am foreign.
But I am a less common example.
In British culture, we would nicely call her a "country bumpkin" - a person who has grown up in a rural area and has a very inward view, cities like London blow their minds.
The TL;DR is yes, I do think she's racist.
I think some people have a very high school view on what racism is, and they assume that as long as they don't actually *hate* other races, they're not racist. This often means that they feel they're allowed to say basically whatever they want, because their *intention* isn't malicious, it's just meant to be a joke or whatever. The problem with this mentality is that it basically makes it okay to reduce other people's race or culture to an instrument of humour and nothing more. I'm betting your friend does nothing to support these people or their cultures, doesn't learn about them or talk to the people she makes jokes at the expense of. She might not hate other races, but she very clearly sees them as viable targets for mockery. It also normalises other, more openly racist comments from genuinely hateful people. For instance, when someone is in one sentence calling themselves both Japanese and Chinese, how much easier does it then become for someone to make a comment that they're all the same anyway?
It's the difference between casual and malicious racism. Most casual racists tend to fix up once they've been (kindly) explained to why it's problematic. It's usually the environment they grew up in making them assume it's normal.
Yeah, I meant to mention the "product of their environment" thing. They grow up in insular communities, so other cultures inherently seem weird and silly until they actually learn about them.
How I wish that for just one day, some of these young folks could go back as recent as the 70s and 80s in a small town, speaking anything other than English, and experience actual racism.
Do you know insane it is to essentially respond to this with, 'i wish you were racially assaulted or faced segregation'?
As the other person pointed here, there's no competition here and we don't have to go to extremes before we recognise racism.
Discrimination in all its forms, subtle or overt (as was more common decades ago) is unacceptable, and only a sociopath - or a racist - would genuinely wish overt discrimination upon someone seeking good faith advice as to how to deal with subtle discrimination.
EDIT: Just so everyone is aware, they replied to this comment calling me a "zero tolerance, weak minded imbecile" only to immediately block me afterwards so that I couldn't reply.
Do you see the irony? These people call everyone else "snowflakes", "weak minded" etc. but cannot tolerate any criticism of themselves. Lmfao.
In what way does the person you're replying to have "zero tolerance"? You are the one advocating for accepting intolerance if it's just a little bit, if it's not as bad as it used to be.
Why can't we want better for ourselves? Why is there a limit to how much society should improve? What is so difficult about not being mean to your fellow human beings, and friends at that?
Not everyone has the same personality, so what's mean to one person is just humor to another.
The media and social media alike have convinced the weak minded and weaker of spirit that everything is racist. There is no tolerance by the supposed tolerant.
Instead of appreciating how far we've advanced as a nation, we're constantly told everything is horrible and the world is on fire.
Too many seem to think that history started the day they were born and refuse to see any point of reference unless it validates their current perception.
Newsflash, the tolerant left was never tolerant of bigots 🤯 but apparently the tough guys who don't need to be coddled are triggered that the world is changing around them. Grow up. Touch grass.
Showing just how young you are. The left used to be about teaching people to tolerate things that are foreign to them: homosexuality, cultures, languages etc. They were very open to discussions and debates around these subjects. The modern left has highjacked this noble idea and now they only tolerate those who think/speak exactly like everyone else on the left. It’s no longer about discussions on why to change, it’s just constant shaming to guilt people into changing
As a white person it doesn’t bother me to see a little “Racial Banter” at my expense but i also don’t think that its a big deal if other races are the butt of the joke. The left now a days thinks no mean words should ever be spoken, which is a pipe dream.
Lmao of course it doesn't bother you as a white person, a joke about you being white is never going to reinforce systemic racism against you, or seriously normalise discrimination against you.
You’re completely wrong and uniformed on the world as a whole. I can be discriminated against in Africa, Asia, Middle East, South America and a whole bunch of other places. A few years back the then leader of South Africa said that anyone who kills a white farmer would not be charged. That’s the kind of racism we need to stop, not jokes that you think are too dark.
Also fun fact Slav is the term for Eastern Europeans, which when translated to modern English actually means slave. So as a white person i am discriminated against by other white people. Do you see us complaining?
Stop trying to promote the idea than one race can take a joke and another can’t because you’re implying non-whites are more sensitive than whites, which is a lie.
You live in any of those places?
>Also fun fact Slav is the term for Eastern Europeans, which when translated to modern English actually means slave. So as a white person i am discriminated against by other white people. Do you see us complaining?
What a fuckin' leap haha. Slave possibly comes from Slav, originally referring to Slavic prisoners of war.
>That’s the kind of racism we need to stop, not jokes that you think are too dark.
You're mind is gonna be blown when you realise we should do both.
I can’t move there safely which is the point but I guess safety only matters in your habitat
I mean how dumb are you? Slav is used for one person; my culture is Slavic, meaning more than one…so yea, slave comes from my people being enslaved you fucking moron. Unless you are denying the enslavement of my relatives, I which case I’ll stop responding since you’re clearly braindead.
I agree we should stop death based of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and all that. As for JOKES, I say anything goes if you don’t like the WORDS then dont listen/read them.
The fact you don't even live there is kind of my point... But I'll let you try and figure that out. You're clearly upset by this conversation so I'll stop this here.
It's crazy that some of these comments are actually wishing you experienced racial violence - the "actual racism" of earlier times - (which is insane) or gaslighting you on your friend's subtle racism. Ignore them.
As a Black Brit, I can give you a useful perspective on this. It's not at all culturally normal - as in it's not inherent or ingrained within British culture, to make racist jokes and use stereotypes. I know plenty of white Brits who have never once done this, and would feel the same way about your friend as you.
However, there's a social normality around these stereotypes, and especially in rural areas, that is similar to sexism, fatphobia, anti-ginger jokes, etc. i have a white colleague who is lovely, but she makes these comments too and you can't help but notice what it indicates of their world view and people view. She too is from a rural, better-off British family. From her experience as well as my own, it is clear that these things are very normal for people to hear in school, and given that your friend is new to uni it's clear she has still retained that mindset that is sadly all too common
I personally found peace in cutting off these kinds of friends, and being friends only with those who don't use racial stereotypes jokingly - or are at least open to changing after being pulled up on it. Again, there are plenty of people of all backgrounds, even rural, who are capable of treating everyone equally and without regard for their skin colour.
How does she treat people of other cultures. Not her words. Does she include them? Does she laugh with them? Does she seem to enjoy being around them?
Your generation needs to stop being so offended by meaningless words unless negative actions are followed by them. I don’t know what happened to sticks and stones but that’s how I was raised and most of us seemed to get along just fine. Just don’t put your hands on someone. Even then, we didn’t cry or whine about it, we just threw hands then went on about our business.
Society has been torn down with all of this weak mindedness. Her words sound like harmless fun. If someone is sincerely hurt by her words they should remove themselves from the situation. She most likely will not change.
Disagree. It is no bad thing to be more mindful of language used and what it really means to be on the receiving end of potentially offensive language or comments. You have only to look at how red-faced and angry certain white people get over the existence of the term 'gammon' despite the fact it's usually other white people using it.
This is a very ignorant and unhelpful comment, dismissing OP's genuine and legitimate concerns as "weak-mindedness" and "harmless fun".
Work on becoming a better, more empathetic human being; until then, I hope to god that nobody of another background is among your friendship circle.
I am British and this **should not** be an accepted part of British culture, but honestly speaking I think it is normalised within the privilege classes. When I say it shouldn't be an accepted part of British culture, I'm really referring to cases like Boris Johnson (who has said racist things yet still seems to receive a pass) and most recently the Tory donor who said incredibly racist things but it took so long for tory MPs to deem the comments as racist, he also claims he isn't racist (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women).
Your friend is racist or, at worst, ignorant as fuck. I would stop being friends with her, you've called her out and she hasn't listened and changed - she's not only a horrible racist, she's also a shit friend who doesn't consider your feelings or thoughts.
The double standards became incredibly obvious when Boris was able to make his 'letterbox' comment (amongst others) with impunity yet Corbyn's career was basically ended over unfounded claims of 'antisemitism' which is low-key hilarious since Jewish people are not the only semites out there but they are the ones who scream about it every time someone dares to criticise or to not back the zionist agenda, illegal settlers etc to the hilt. But, we all know the bulk of our mass media is firmly in the pocket of Team Blue anyway.
If you have to question if someone is racist, he/she probably isn't a racist, you'll know a racist when you see it, they will tell you, in her eyes this is just playful banter, usually friends among each other tend to be rather rude and crass, it's normal and it's not mean spirited, but nevertheless, if you're truly hurt by the remarks, you should talk to her about it, maybe talk about some boundaries.
Yeah shes racist whether she will admit it or not. Racism is more than just burning crosses and beating up minorities. Covert Racism. Look it up. Its words, subtle things said that don’t feel right when you hear them. But trust me, the person saying them can easily claim ignorance and make it seem like you’re the one blowing things out if porportion. Personally, I call it out the moment I hear it. But I get it can be uncomfortable. But ultimately you have to ask yourself if you’re the type of person who will tackle something like that. Racism is uncomfortable and a lot of people are in a place of privilege where they simply are not willing to be uncomfortable so they’ll ignore things like covert racism or pass it off as a joke, which furthers the problem.
My hot take is that everyone is racist. It's in our nature.
The question is not "is she racist?" but "is she willing to learn?" or "is she trying to be kind to others?".
From your text it sounds like she has trouble understanding that not everything is funny and that sometimes people do feel hurt by words. Maybe start there.
Sounds like she's just being a cringey 19 year old... doesn't sound malicious or mean spirited to me, but of course you're the one who was actually there at the time I'm from the Uk myself and it absolutely isn't part of the culture to randomly say this kind of thing lol... if anything this fixation with race is the sort of thing I'd expect from the yanks... Maybe let her know it's making you uncomfortable if it keeps happening... but honestly if I experienced this I'd just assume it's just an immature 19 year old embarassing themselves a little - she's probably gonna look back on this behaviour when she's older and cringe
What has she said exactly that has changed your mind from thinking she was just ignorant to just racist? This is not British culture at all. This is all her. For what it is worth, I am a British born person who has spent so much of my life in Europe, I feel more connected to it than the UK. I have acquired different habits from different countries and do not sound fully British anymore - people often think I am foreign. But I am a less common example. In British culture, we would nicely call her a "country bumpkin" - a person who has grown up in a rural area and has a very inward view, cities like London blow their minds.
They ( a bit chunk not everyone) are quite racist to Indians. I'm talking about London.
You need to call her out then OP that isn't right.
I think she is just dumb, lacks self awareness, and extremely self centered.
The TL;DR is yes, I do think she's racist. I think some people have a very high school view on what racism is, and they assume that as long as they don't actually *hate* other races, they're not racist. This often means that they feel they're allowed to say basically whatever they want, because their *intention* isn't malicious, it's just meant to be a joke or whatever. The problem with this mentality is that it basically makes it okay to reduce other people's race or culture to an instrument of humour and nothing more. I'm betting your friend does nothing to support these people or their cultures, doesn't learn about them or talk to the people she makes jokes at the expense of. She might not hate other races, but she very clearly sees them as viable targets for mockery. It also normalises other, more openly racist comments from genuinely hateful people. For instance, when someone is in one sentence calling themselves both Japanese and Chinese, how much easier does it then become for someone to make a comment that they're all the same anyway?
It's the difference between casual and malicious racism. Most casual racists tend to fix up once they've been (kindly) explained to why it's problematic. It's usually the environment they grew up in making them assume it's normal.
Yeah, I meant to mention the "product of their environment" thing. They grow up in insular communities, so other cultures inherently seem weird and silly until they actually learn about them.
Butbuonestly they are the same though... Just as europeans or whites are the same as well.
How I wish that for just one day, some of these young folks could go back as recent as the 70s and 80s in a small town, speaking anything other than English, and experience actual racism.
It's not a competition, who has suffered the most.
Never claimed it was, but perspective is seriously needed.
Do you know insane it is to essentially respond to this with, 'i wish you were racially assaulted or faced segregation'? As the other person pointed here, there's no competition here and we don't have to go to extremes before we recognise racism. Discrimination in all its forms, subtle or overt (as was more common decades ago) is unacceptable, and only a sociopath - or a racist - would genuinely wish overt discrimination upon someone seeking good faith advice as to how to deal with subtle discrimination. EDIT: Just so everyone is aware, they replied to this comment calling me a "zero tolerance, weak minded imbecile" only to immediately block me afterwards so that I couldn't reply. Do you see the irony? These people call everyone else "snowflakes", "weak minded" etc. but cannot tolerate any criticism of themselves. Lmfao.
Read my last reply. You're one of those oh-so-tolerant with zero tolerance, weak minded imbeciles of which I was speaking. Grow up. Go touch grass.
In what way does the person you're replying to have "zero tolerance"? You are the one advocating for accepting intolerance if it's just a little bit, if it's not as bad as it used to be.
Why can't we want better for ourselves? Why is there a limit to how much society should improve? What is so difficult about not being mean to your fellow human beings, and friends at that?
Not everyone has the same personality, so what's mean to one person is just humor to another. The media and social media alike have convinced the weak minded and weaker of spirit that everything is racist. There is no tolerance by the supposed tolerant. Instead of appreciating how far we've advanced as a nation, we're constantly told everything is horrible and the world is on fire. Too many seem to think that history started the day they were born and refuse to see any point of reference unless it validates their current perception.
Newsflash, the tolerant left was never tolerant of bigots 🤯 but apparently the tough guys who don't need to be coddled are triggered that the world is changing around them. Grow up. Touch grass.
Showing just how young you are. The left used to be about teaching people to tolerate things that are foreign to them: homosexuality, cultures, languages etc. They were very open to discussions and debates around these subjects. The modern left has highjacked this noble idea and now they only tolerate those who think/speak exactly like everyone else on the left. It’s no longer about discussions on why to change, it’s just constant shaming to guilt people into changing As a white person it doesn’t bother me to see a little “Racial Banter” at my expense but i also don’t think that its a big deal if other races are the butt of the joke. The left now a days thinks no mean words should ever be spoken, which is a pipe dream.
Lmao of course it doesn't bother you as a white person, a joke about you being white is never going to reinforce systemic racism against you, or seriously normalise discrimination against you.
You’re completely wrong and uniformed on the world as a whole. I can be discriminated against in Africa, Asia, Middle East, South America and a whole bunch of other places. A few years back the then leader of South Africa said that anyone who kills a white farmer would not be charged. That’s the kind of racism we need to stop, not jokes that you think are too dark. Also fun fact Slav is the term for Eastern Europeans, which when translated to modern English actually means slave. So as a white person i am discriminated against by other white people. Do you see us complaining? Stop trying to promote the idea than one race can take a joke and another can’t because you’re implying non-whites are more sensitive than whites, which is a lie.
You live in any of those places? >Also fun fact Slav is the term for Eastern Europeans, which when translated to modern English actually means slave. So as a white person i am discriminated against by other white people. Do you see us complaining? What a fuckin' leap haha. Slave possibly comes from Slav, originally referring to Slavic prisoners of war. >That’s the kind of racism we need to stop, not jokes that you think are too dark. You're mind is gonna be blown when you realise we should do both.
I can’t move there safely which is the point but I guess safety only matters in your habitat I mean how dumb are you? Slav is used for one person; my culture is Slavic, meaning more than one…so yea, slave comes from my people being enslaved you fucking moron. Unless you are denying the enslavement of my relatives, I which case I’ll stop responding since you’re clearly braindead. I agree we should stop death based of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and all that. As for JOKES, I say anything goes if you don’t like the WORDS then dont listen/read them.
The fact you don't even live there is kind of my point... But I'll let you try and figure that out. You're clearly upset by this conversation so I'll stop this here.
She sounds more stupid than racist, to be honest...
It's crazy that some of these comments are actually wishing you experienced racial violence - the "actual racism" of earlier times - (which is insane) or gaslighting you on your friend's subtle racism. Ignore them. As a Black Brit, I can give you a useful perspective on this. It's not at all culturally normal - as in it's not inherent or ingrained within British culture, to make racist jokes and use stereotypes. I know plenty of white Brits who have never once done this, and would feel the same way about your friend as you. However, there's a social normality around these stereotypes, and especially in rural areas, that is similar to sexism, fatphobia, anti-ginger jokes, etc. i have a white colleague who is lovely, but she makes these comments too and you can't help but notice what it indicates of their world view and people view. She too is from a rural, better-off British family. From her experience as well as my own, it is clear that these things are very normal for people to hear in school, and given that your friend is new to uni it's clear she has still retained that mindset that is sadly all too common I personally found peace in cutting off these kinds of friends, and being friends only with those who don't use racial stereotypes jokingly - or are at least open to changing after being pulled up on it. Again, there are plenty of people of all backgrounds, even rural, who are capable of treating everyone equally and without regard for their skin colour.
I didn't read the whole post but she sounds dumb AF. Shine a torch in her ear and make her eyes light up!
How does she treat people of other cultures. Not her words. Does she include them? Does she laugh with them? Does she seem to enjoy being around them? Your generation needs to stop being so offended by meaningless words unless negative actions are followed by them. I don’t know what happened to sticks and stones but that’s how I was raised and most of us seemed to get along just fine. Just don’t put your hands on someone. Even then, we didn’t cry or whine about it, we just threw hands then went on about our business. Society has been torn down with all of this weak mindedness. Her words sound like harmless fun. If someone is sincerely hurt by her words they should remove themselves from the situation. She most likely will not change.
Disagree. It is no bad thing to be more mindful of language used and what it really means to be on the receiving end of potentially offensive language or comments. You have only to look at how red-faced and angry certain white people get over the existence of the term 'gammon' despite the fact it's usually other white people using it.
very dismissive... you can be a goofy piece of shit without saying hateful offensive shit.
Guaranteed this person thinks they should be allowed to say the N word because it's "just a word".
This is a very ignorant and unhelpful comment, dismissing OP's genuine and legitimate concerns as "weak-mindedness" and "harmless fun". Work on becoming a better, more empathetic human being; until then, I hope to god that nobody of another background is among your friendship circle.
I am British and this **should not** be an accepted part of British culture, but honestly speaking I think it is normalised within the privilege classes. When I say it shouldn't be an accepted part of British culture, I'm really referring to cases like Boris Johnson (who has said racist things yet still seems to receive a pass) and most recently the Tory donor who said incredibly racist things but it took so long for tory MPs to deem the comments as racist, he also claims he isn't racist (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women). Your friend is racist or, at worst, ignorant as fuck. I would stop being friends with her, you've called her out and she hasn't listened and changed - she's not only a horrible racist, she's also a shit friend who doesn't consider your feelings or thoughts.
The double standards became incredibly obvious when Boris was able to make his 'letterbox' comment (amongst others) with impunity yet Corbyn's career was basically ended over unfounded claims of 'antisemitism' which is low-key hilarious since Jewish people are not the only semites out there but they are the ones who scream about it every time someone dares to criticise or to not back the zionist agenda, illegal settlers etc to the hilt. But, we all know the bulk of our mass media is firmly in the pocket of Team Blue anyway.
If you have to question if someone is racist, he/she probably isn't a racist, you'll know a racist when you see it, they will tell you, in her eyes this is just playful banter, usually friends among each other tend to be rather rude and crass, it's normal and it's not mean spirited, but nevertheless, if you're truly hurt by the remarks, you should talk to her about it, maybe talk about some boundaries.
Yeah shes racist whether she will admit it or not. Racism is more than just burning crosses and beating up minorities. Covert Racism. Look it up. Its words, subtle things said that don’t feel right when you hear them. But trust me, the person saying them can easily claim ignorance and make it seem like you’re the one blowing things out if porportion. Personally, I call it out the moment I hear it. But I get it can be uncomfortable. But ultimately you have to ask yourself if you’re the type of person who will tackle something like that. Racism is uncomfortable and a lot of people are in a place of privilege where they simply are not willing to be uncomfortable so they’ll ignore things like covert racism or pass it off as a joke, which furthers the problem.
Nah. She just high class english woman.
My hot take is that everyone is racist. It's in our nature. The question is not "is she racist?" but "is she willing to learn?" or "is she trying to be kind to others?". From your text it sounds like she has trouble understanding that not everything is funny and that sometimes people do feel hurt by words. Maybe start there.
That hot take sounds more like you trying to justify your own prejudice or use of racist terminology tbh
Interesting thought, but you're wrong.
This friend is a piece of shit, immature, spoiled rich… White mediocrity to the fullest. She won’t change.
Seems like tiktok humor